Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: WMLute on August 24, 2010, 04:39:50 PM
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Why do I keep seeing players post that there is no longer any "strategy" left in the MA's because of the Dar change?
What is wrong with having to actually FIGHT that enemy to get a capture?
If anything the new radar has caused players to actually USE strategy now.
Players that actually employ tactics and strategy have not really been negatively effective by the Dar change.
Just a guess, and this might not be accurate, but I get the impression that the players who thought they were using "strategy" by running NOE hordes to undefended base are probably players that also feel Aerial Combat is flying around face shooting every nme they find.
There is no more strategy in the NOE horde than there is ACM in face shooting.
NOE hordes and face shooting are tactics found on the lower end of the AH Learning Curve.
There is SO much more to the game that they have not yet discovered.
So they cry because the ezy mode tactics don't work as well anymore and cry because it now takes some time, practice, effort, and honest to gosh Strategy.
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You realize your whine carries no validity due to using the word 'hoard' when you meant to use 'horde?' :devil
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You realize your whine carries no validity due to using the word 'hoard' when you meant to use 'horde?' :devil
(*fixed*)
:)
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Whats a Rader? :D
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NOE hordes and face shooting are tactics found on the lower end of the AH Learning Curve.
I'm crushed. :cry
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Whats a Rader? :D
rofl...
y'all are killing me here..
(fixed)
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:lol
*Beer
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ezy? :headscratch:
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Whats a Rader? :D
i think that's that thing that golden earring loves. :noid
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I think you're missing a component, Lute. It occurred to me as some of the 'new dar sucks' whines have taken a different angle the last day or two.
As strange as it seems to me, there appears to be a group of people who actually *like* to play virtual whack-a-mole looking for the NOE hordes. The new radar scheme has taken away their prey, and they now have nothing to feed on. I can see that being kind of annoying.
Wiley.
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New dar sucks.
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HOnestly,the strategy hasnt changed much..Ok,so one wants the dar dead now before coming in so dots arent seen at 65 feet,or where they are coming in at alt,thats it really,as far as change in strategy..The rest of the strategy employed when it comes to taking bases at ALT or NOE,is STILL THE SAME for base takers..
I will say the ONLY thing that has really changed is due to the towns having "HIDDEN" buildings..(yes thats a joke).but buildings are pretty difficult to see at times,so a mission needs more "EYES" in the sky looking around town..
You know its funny,with missions,you are damned if you do,and damned if you dont by the other side..
If you come in NOE/ALT get down the VH,deack the field and cap it(VULCH)..then everyone starts whining about that..
IF you come in NOE/ALT and take ALL the hangars down,(AGAIN) WHINES GALORE...
Make up your minds..And while you are all deciding about how it should be,I will be having my fun in the MA's.. :salute
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What seems interesting to me after reading some of the furball versus base capture discussions/arguments over the years is that somehow the two ideas seem to have become separate entities in peoples minds. A large part of the problem seemed to be that the proponents in each camp tended to narrow the opposing camps into very specific and over simplified definitions.
Then changes were made and some people cried foul, that HTC was catering to one group to the exclusion of the other. I don't think HTC saw either group as a problem, but rather saw the fact that there were multiple groups as a problem on it's own. The changes were made in my own ever so humble opinion to promote player versus player combat, to put players in the same space at the same time. Whether those players want to play cartoon fighter pilot, drop a bomb, drive a tank, capture a field is much less relevant.
People are always going to gravitate towards certain parts of the game, but when those groups become so insulated from the rest of the community and each other then that can be bad for the health of the game as a whole.
Somewhere we got the idea that furballs were mindless and base captures were exercises in attacking defenseless tool sheds and the radar changes were made to steer the two groups back together in some fashion.
This is my own interpretation, I don't speak for or pretend to know what discussions took place that lead to this decision at HTC.
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What seems interesting to me after reading some of the furball versus base capture discussions/arguments over the years is that somehow the two ideas seem to have become separate entities in peoples minds. A large part of the problem seemed to be that the proponents in each camp tended to narrow the opposing camps into very specific and over simplified definitions.
Then changes were made and some people cried foul, that HTC was catering to one group to the exclusion of the other. I don't think HTC saw either group as a problem, but rather saw the fact that there were multiple groups as a problem on it's own. The changes were made in my own ever so humble opinion to promote player versus player combat, to put players in the same space at the same time. Whether those players want to play cartoon fighter pilot, drop a bomb, drive a tank, capture a field is much less relevant.
People are always going to gravitate towards certain parts of the game, but when those groups become so insulated from the rest of the community and each other then that can be bad for the health of the game as a whole.
Somewhere we got the idea that furballs were mindless and base captures were exercises in attacking defenseless tool sheds and the radar changes were made to steer the two groups back together in some fashion.
This is my own interpretation, I don't speak for or pretend to know what discussions took place that lead to this decision at HTC.
A fair analog but the this line
The changes were made in my own ever so humble opinion to promote player versus player combat, to put players in the same space at the same time.
Is a better interpretation then saying putting 2 groups back together. We really don't view things as 2 groups.
HiTech
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Thing is, if I want to furball I can usually find one, even if I have to switch from one Late War arena to the other one. Likewise, if I want to do a base cap I can usually find one in progress as well. The game is easily flexible enough to satisfy both styles of play.
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It was hard to justify a strat run before, now it's nearly impossible. If you don't come into the radar at 30,000+ ft, you're going to have a heck of a time getting out of there. I've made the mistake since the new radar of assuming that that one little dot on the enemies screen would only bring up a few up to 25-30k. Nope, each time is was 7+, yikes!
If this is how radar is going to stay, so be it, the community will adjust. But please please fix the strat system already!
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A fair analog but the this line
Is a better interpretation then saying putting 2 groups back together. We really don't view things as 2 groups.
These same people that whined about the bases being 'snuck' by people 'avoiding fights' are going to whine next about maps that stick around for a week. There really is no winning against whiners. :rolleyes:
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99.9999% of the guys that join in these horde missions think they are pioneers and have originated "strategy" by grouping 30+ guys to achieve a certain goal.
Go to base X with an overwhelming force, catch them by surprise and hope it works. Any kind of resistance and I can assure you that the same chesspiece general hero that planned that mission will not be coming back, but rather planning to use the same "strategy" on a different part of the map.
This is not strategy. To me, its more exploiting. I can honestly say that the tactic is hated not by just furballers, but by 100% of the people that play. My question is why even take part of it if it generates such negativity?
Quite honestly, we can talk about the subject until our heads turn blue and it will never solve anything. The more the subject comes up and we get heated arguments, the more fuel I think is added to the fire only making things worse and gives the lemmings an excuse to keep doing what they are doing.
Only way in my mind to stop it is by giving them what they want until they just get bored of it and they move on to something else
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If anything the new radar has caused players to actually USE strategy now
WMLute, can you elaborate on this viewpoint? Granted, I don't get a lot of time to fly but when I have, I haven't really seen strategy - what I've seen almost every time I sign in is a mammoth slug-fest at one field pair with each side working to bludgeon the other into submission by sheer weight of numbers and sheer "luck of the timing".
Perhaps it's because you ( I believe, I could be wrong???) might fly more in the off hours while I fly at US Prime time that you see more strategy being employed, or am I incorrect in when you fly?
<S>
Respectfully,
Grue
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This quote from another thread:
The tendency of large groups to horde was deemed unhealthy and some thing needed to be done.
...and this quote from this thread:
WMLute, can you elaborate on this viewpoint? Granted, I don't get a lot of time to fly but when I have, I haven't really seen strategy - what I've seen almost every time I sign in is a mammoth slug-fest at one field pair with each side working to bludgeon the other into submission by sheer weight of numbers and sheer "luck of the timing".
...suggests the disparity still exsists.
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A fair analog but the this line
Is a better interpretation then saying putting 2 groups back together. We really don't view things as 2 groups.
HiTech
Baaaa what would you know... your only the owner with access to piles of information that we never are privy to. :P
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This quote from another thread:...and this quote from this thread:
...suggests the disparity still exsists.
shhhh
As I was told in another thread, you're expecting common sense. If you can't see the numbers it's bad, if you can see the numbers increase.. time for new pants.
Numbers are numbers. If you can mount superior forces, use em to win even if your tactics can't survive without em (IE USSR during WWII with thier fall back tactic that gave ground any time the blitz broke the lines, yet allowed them to merged with the line behind, eventually making the line too thick to pierce. Or Stalin's theory once on the offense of just throwing people at the Germans) Oh and the US's theory was, besides having decent men, was to out produce, or.. wait for it... HORDE WITH EQUIPMENT! Bad WWII for proving hordes are good, bad bad. :aok
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Posted this another thread, but it fits so well here as well.....
There are two types of football players. Those that want to run up the middle, and those that want to play-action pass. Those that want to run up the middle pride themselves on physical ability, Blocking technique, and running ability. Those that want ot Play-action pass (fake the run up the middle and throw a pass to a wide open reciever) pride themselves on being smarter.
The MA is the same way. There are those that pride themselves on their ability to come across another pilot regarless of the plane matchups, E disparities, and number disparities and come out victorious...demonstrate thier skills as [cartoon] pilots. There are those who want to pull off ever deeper and daring raids into enemy territory without being discovered...prove how smart they are.
The skill people are easy to satisfy. I think the issue is with the latter. The radar settings force everything to be a full frontal confrontation. But this doesn't eliminate strategy in the game, it transforms it from figuring out how to 'fake out' the other side, to organizing the proper resources and executing a well thought out plan to accomplish an objective. Which should be a great thing to do in a war sim.
The "fake out" guys are getting pissed because they can't do "fake out" base taking anymore, because with radar covering the whole map, bandits are drawn to you like moths to a flame.
Would changing the radar back really fix the problem? I say that's a matter of perception. The reason you could sneak a mission in the past is not because your plan is clever enough to have faked anyone out, it's because no one cares. It's not worth the time investment to fly around looking for a few planes that might be trying to capture a meaningless base. So the percieved cleverness of your part is nothing more than the result of it not being worth the enemies time to look for you.
It seems the choice has been made by the game developers to promote action per unit time for paying customers. Not hard to figure out why they made that choice.
Perhaps you can change your definition of being stategic, from faking the enemy out, to planning a raid that can capture a base with a handfull of very organized friends or squadies, knowing that the enemy will see you coming. Just a suggestion
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Posted this another thread, but it fits so well here as well.....
There are two types of football players. Those that want to run up the middle, and those that want to play-action pass. Those that want to run up the middle pride themselves on physical ability, Blocking technique, and running ability. Those that want ot Play-action pass (fake the run up the middle and throw a pass to a wide open reciever) pride themselves on being smarter.
The MA is the same way. There are those that pride themselves on their ability to come across another pilot regarless of the plane matchups, E disparities, and number disparities and come out victorious...demonstrate thier skills as [cartoon] pilots. There are those who want to pull off ever deeper and daring raids into enemy territory without being discovered...prove how smart they are.
The skill people are easy to satisfy. I think the issue is with the latter. The radar settings force everything to be a full frontal confrontation. But this doesn't eliminate strategy in the game, it transforms it from figuring out how to 'fake out' the other side, to organizing the proper resources and executing a well thought out plan to accomplish an objective. Which should be a great thing to do in a war sim.
The "fake out" guys are getting pissed because they can't do "fake out" base taking anymore, because with radar covering the whole map, bandits are drawn to you like moths to a flame.
Would changing the radar back really fix the problem? I say that's a matter of perception. The reason you could sneak a mission in the past is not because your plan is clever enough to have faked anyone out, it's because no one cares. It's not worth the time investment to fly around looking for a few planes that might be trying to capture a meaningless base. So the percieved cleverness of your part is nothing more than the result of it not being worth the enemies time to look for you.
It seems the choice has been made by the game developers to promote action per unit time for paying customers. Not hard to figure out why they made that choice.
Perhaps you can change your definition of being stategic, from faking the enemy out, to planning a raid that can capture a base with a handfull of very organized friends or squadies, knowing that the enemy will see you coming. Just a suggestion
But if they are truely smarter..... why not just kill the dar and have planes keep it down.
... and who says going around is smarter anyway?? :lol
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Posted this another thread, but it fits so well here as well.....
There are two types of football players. Those that want to run up the middle, and those that want to play-action pass. Those that want to run up the middle pride themselves on physical ability, Blocking technique, and running ability. Those that want ot Play-action pass (fake the run up the middle and throw a pass to a wide open reciever) pride themselves on being smarter.
The MA is the same way. There are those that pride themselves on their ability to come across another pilot regarless of the plane matchups, E disparities, and number disparities and come out victorious...demonstrate thier skills as [cartoon] pilots. There are those who want to pull off ever deeper and daring raids into enemy territory without being discovered...prove how smart they are.
The skill people are easy to satisfy. I think the issue is with the latter. The radar settings force everything to be a full frontal confrontation. But this doesn't eliminate strategy in the game, it transforms it from figuring out how to 'fake out' the other side, to organizing the proper resources and executing a well thought out plan to accomplish an objective. Which should be a great thing to do in a war sim.
The "fake out" guys are getting pissed because they can't do "fake out" base taking anymore, because with radar covering the whole map, bandits are drawn to you like moths to a flame.
Would changing the radar back really fix the problem? I say that's a matter of perception. The reason you could sneak a mission in the past is not because your plan is clever enough to have faked anyone out, it's because no one cares. It's not worth the time investment to fly around looking for a few planes that might be trying to capture a meaningless base. So the percieved cleverness of your part is nothing more than the result of it not being worth the enemies time to look for you.
It seems the choice has been made by the game developers to promote action per unit time for paying customers. Not hard to figure out why they made that choice.
Perhaps you can change your definition of being stategic, from faking the enemy out, to planning a raid that can capture a base with a handfull of very organized friends or squadies, knowing that the enemy will see you coming. Just a suggestion
I love it! :aok
But there are alot of sacks going on here with certain individuals. Thats group 3. You know, the group you wish would stop or just go away. :bolt:
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Developers come to realize that if they cater to the more casual player they get a lot more subscriptions because there are a lot more of them to be tapped. The problem is that in most cases that requires compromises to the original game play and usually its a slap in the face to the players who propped up the game in its early days hence the whines.
Non-casual players (like me) like strategy, sneaking bases, NOE runs, flying our favorite plane even if its not the latest, greatest, most dangerous plane.
Casual players like new, better, faster, more dangerous things to fly, drive etc. They like fast ways to get to combat, the all seeing dar and have less time to play then the non-casual.
As an example, I say on country channel a few days ago "had an awesome 10 minute fight with a 190, ended up both running outta fuel and rtb'ing to base".
Guy writes back "How is that awesome if ya didn't win??".
Its obvious that some people would rather have a 10 minute furball of chance and numbers in the latest plane and get a few kills / deaths then a 10 minute 1 on 1 with the possibility of no kill. Each of those points of view is not less valid, just different and its stupid to insult someone for their alternate point of view.
Unfortunately the end result of more casuals vs non-casuals is games development must become like the rest of 21st century business, if you can sell 100 pieces of mass produced crap for 1000 dollars profit, thats better then selling 50 exquisitely crafted items for 500.
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A Crapper, or Toilet invented by Thomas Crapper is just a tool. Its use and utilitarian value is in the perception of whom ever sits upon that throne. Crappers come in many sizes, qualities and technical intricasies. The Japanese have crappers smarter and more helpful than R2D2 with fans and tushy wipers. Crappers have been cast of pure gold and encrusted with jewels. But, in the end, when you need that tool, even a humble hole in a wooden board to support your twin lobed ego beats the heck out of filling your drawers with the Olde French crappe.
Just like the basic porcelin Fergusun of Al Bundy's fame. Aces High is a well designed tool that works exactly as intended via the imagination of the operator. If some operators cannot make it through the door with sufficient time to operate it correctly, why blame Fergusun for your cleaning bill?
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Just like the basic porcelin Fergusun of Al Bundy's fame. Aces High is a well designed tool that works exactly as intended via the imagination of the operator. If some operators cannot make it through the door with sufficient time to operate it correctly, why blame Fergusun for your cleaning bill?
Quoted for the "correctly" comment. Nice prose but a bit too flowery to be legitimate.
What you define as "correct" could be defined by another player as absolutely wrong. Case in point the whines about NOEs versus the whines about larger radars. In my view the game is exactly the same with no differences whatsoever because it doesnt change how I play the game at all. What I have noticed is there are even more people online recently that dont use the dar they have and I had come to the opinion that radar was changed because the FA crowd are not quite up to speed with AH but now because of this topic I have to change my opinion that it was due to whiners that cannot change their play style in order to adapt to crowds.
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Maybe you can prosaic Swahili then...
Tu kama porcelin msingi Fergusun ya sifa Al Bundy ya. Aces High ni chombo cha pamoja iliyoundwa kwamba kazi hasa kama lengo via mawazo ya flygbolaget. Kama baadhi ya operatörer hawezi kufanya hivyo kwa njia ya mlango na muda wa kutosha kufanya kazi kwa usahihi, kwa nini lawama Fergusun kwa yako kusafisha muswada?
Eh toi, the twin lobed fly paper works very well as a honey pot for American Standard chauvinists while reveiling a predudice to an intellectual rice bowl. Lets hope the rice was not fertilised with traditional night soil. Salmonella is no ones freind. But, then, I did not reduce this thread to the level of crappe. At least I've shown the crappe's how to make light comedy of intellectual potty refrences and not fertilise my rice with the same as a retort. Rose scented toilett watered elucidation with a hint of lemony entendre anyone?
But again. Many of the denizens on this board seem to enjoy throwing flavored fertilised rice whilst astride of their thrones. We owe Thomas Crapper such a debt for our intellectual comfort. Charmine plain or scented with the maxi absorbant layers......Rabbits, Bears and woods Oh My!
Chaelenge,
We are no longer taught the true meaning of prose. Many such as yourself use the word out of context as an insult and derisive dismisal of another author to communicate to the audience the idea that the author's context is immature, misplaced and of no consiquence. But, then I suspect you have no real experience with what prose means and sadly, it is your own very direct and common mode of communication by which you describe my structure while pontificating to these audiences in general. Since you don't impress me as being a pontifex or pontif or bishop in real life for some reason. I'm using the more supercilious meaning in our vernacular.
The English word 'prose' is derived from the Latin prōsa, which literally translates as 'straight-forward.' In the 21st century it is considered the common mode of written communication. It has been the common mode of communication since around the time of Bacon.
I'm using the "Balanced style" with satirical imagery combined by entendra illustrating with seemingly unconnected refrence points a view of an author's concept. No, not prose as direct and commonly dismissive as your own. "Here's Your Sign"! says Jeff........
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Why do I keep seeing players post that there is no longer any "strategy" left in the MA's because of the Dar change?
What is wrong with having to actually FIGHT that enemy to get a capture?
If anything the new radar has caused players to actually USE strategy now.
Players that actually employ tactics and strategy have not really been negatively effective by the Dar change.
Just a guess, and this might not be accurate, but I get the impression that the players who thought they were using "strategy" by running NOE hordes to undefended base are probably players that also feel Aerial Combat is flying around face shooting every nme they find.
There is no more strategy in the NOE horde than there is ACM in face shooting.
NOE hordes and face shooting are tactics found on the lower end of the AH Learning Curve.
There is SO much more to the game that they have not yet discovered.
So they cry because the ezy mode tactics don't work as well anymore and cry because it now takes some time, practice, effort, and honest to gosh Strategy.
You start with the erroneous assumption that NOEs were only run by hordes. Hordes will horde whether you see them coming or not. They aren't really affected by all the changes. In fact, my opinion is that he hordes are actually more intimidating precisely because you CAN see them coming, and who wants to be the lone upper against the incoming 30 cons? Some of us still do, and we get slaughtered handily because there seem to be fewer of us than before, or perhaps the hordes are larger -- the effect is the same.
Where the "strategy" impact has been felt most is on the small squads. If we have 4-6 players and want to capture a base, we are simply too small a force to take a base head on. 4 cons inbound on radar (even on old dar settings), and by the time you reach base there are 4-6 uppers. This means you are instantly engaged, there is virtually no chance to hit the town unless you are flying buff formations at alt (which is not everyone's cup of tea). So, instead we would run our 4 attack aircraft and one goon NOE, and do as much damage to the town as possible before the first defense arrived. If the defenders trickled in one and two at a time, we had a chance to protect the goon (you know, by fighting the opposition) and get the capture. If 4 upped more or less simultaneously, they usually get the goon (you know, by fighting their way around or through us) and then it is roughly 40 minutes of trying to keep the defenders engaged until someone else can somehow sneak a goon or M-3 in. (You know, some of us call that a long, sustained fight -- started by an NOE raid -- imagine that.)
Well, NOE isn't very viable with the new radar settings if the terrain is at all varied. So, if we are in the mood to capture a base, our options are 1) join another base-take attempt in progress (which you would probably call "join a horde"), 2) enlist other people's help through the mission planner (which you would probably call "create a horde"), 3) virtually doom ourselves to failure and the resulting frustration by trying to take a base on our own anyway. None of these options are particularly satisfying when our original goal was to accomplish something as a team.
Having already experienced all the assorted and varied ways to shoot things down and blow stuff up, and having decided that small team exercises at accomplishing a goal was a good way for us to relax and enjoy ourselves . . . yes, the recent changes have hurt us. Poo-poo it all you want, it's a fact. No one's quit over it, and my hope is no one does, but several of us are certainly enjoying the game a lot less than before.
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shhhh
As I was told in another thread, you're expecting common sense. If you can't see the numbers it's bad, if you can see the numbers increase.. time for new pants.
Numbers are numbers. If you can mount superior forces, use em to win even if your tactics can't survive without em (IE USSR during WWII with thier fall back tactic that gave ground any time the blitz broke the lines, yet allowed them to merged with the line behind, eventually making the line too thick to pierce. Or Stalin's theory once on the offense of just throwing people at the Germans) Oh and the US's theory was, besides having decent men, was to out produce, or.. wait for it... HORDE WITH EQUIPMENT! Bad WWII for proving hordes are good, bad bad. :aok
Eisenhower was quoted as saying when they were planning the massive D-Day invasion "OK guys..whoever dies first, up a goon from Calais"
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No one is going to persuade HTC that changing the radar and how it functions in the MA has put an end to "strategics" in this game.
That is a false argument since the very act of planning to go from point A to point B alone or enmass to accomplish a goal is the definition of "strategy". If the current implementation of radar is now perceived as unfair or ruinous of a previous popular style of "stratagems", then more so to the point hasen't HTC simply raised the bar to promote the evolution of new stratagems.
It's sadly amusing how the word strategy is not really understood while being used as a scape goat to cover admission to a personal unwillingness to accept change and adapt new stratagem.
Strategy - A plan of action intended to accomplish a specific goal.<------ Going to the bathroom is a "strategy".
Strategics - The activity of using strategy.<------ This is how you physicaly accomplish going to the bathroom.
Strategem - A deceptive tactic designed to gain the upper hand. Typically, involves underhanded dealings and obfuscation.<-----Strategy in Aces High is dead because radar has been changed Crowd.
Gonna Need a Bigger Sign for these fellers.<-----Comedic satire to illustrate a point.
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Besides, a horde is not an automatic base take by any means. I've got the bullet holes in my virtual mossie to prove it.
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You start with the erroneous assumption that NOEs were only run by hordes. Hordes will horde whether you see them coming or not. They aren't really affected by all the changes. In fact, my opinion is that he hordes are actually more intimidating precisely because you CAN see them coming, and who wants to be the lone upper against the incoming 30 cons? Some of us still do, and we get slaughtered handily because there seem to be fewer of us than before, or perhaps the hordes are larger -- the effect is the same.
Where the "strategy" impact has been felt most is on the small squads. If we have 4-6 players and want to capture a base, we are simply too small a force to take a base head on. 4 cons inbound on radar (even on old dar settings), and by the time you reach base there are 4-6 uppers. This means you are instantly engaged, there is virtually no chance to hit the town unless you are flying buff formations at alt (which is not everyone's cup of tea). So, instead we would run our 4 attack aircraft and one goon NOE, and do as much damage to the town as possible before the first defense arrived. If the defenders trickled in one and two at a time, we had a chance to protect the goon (you know, by fighting the opposition) and get the capture. If 4 upped more or less simultaneously, they usually get the goon (you know, by fighting their way around or through us) and then it is roughly 40 minutes of trying to keep the defenders engaged until someone else can somehow sneak a goon or M-3 in. (You know, some of us call that a long, sustained fight -- started by an NOE raid -- imagine that.)
Well, NOE isn't very viable with the new radar settings if the terrain is at all varied. So, if we are in the mood to capture a base, our options are 1) join another base-take attempt in progress (which you would probably call "join a horde"), 2) enlist other people's help through the mission planner (which you would probably call "create a horde"), 3) virtually doom ourselves to failure and the resulting frustration by trying to take a base on our own anyway. None of these options are particularly satisfying when our original goal was to accomplish something as a team.
Having already experienced all the assorted and varied ways to shoot things down and blow stuff up, and having decided that small team exercises at accomplishing a goal was a good way for us to relax and enjoy ourselves . . . yes, the recent changes have hurt us. Poo-poo it all you want, it's a fact. No one's quit over it, and my hope is no one does, but several of us are certainly enjoying the game a lot less than before.
Good post..
I am still trying to understand WHY,people who holler about bases being taken by any means,and who for the most part seem anti base-taking,dont just go fly where the fights and furballs are going on..
The excuse "they cant be found",and all the blather that goes along with that, is seriously old and a straw-man argument..
I think the guys who happen to up at a base where a mission is hitting,and keep it at bay,i.e. keep base from being taken,did a fine job..What more do you guys want??You want me to spend 4 hours and keep trying to take a base??
After the first hour,the base is probably uncapturable due to the fact that buildings are now popping and being destroyed out of sync,and given the new town layouts,not worth the time to make sure everyone of them are down for another 2 hours of fighting.
SO,I have a few choices,I can spend the next 4 hours furballing,I dont have that kind of time to spend in-game.. which I am assuming you guys want,or we can re-group and go somewhere else.So,I would rather go looking somewhere else..
One usually knows in about 45 minutes if the base will be captured or not..you either get the upper hand or you dont.And many times, a furball will start there,and of course,sometimes not.SO I would say the average amount of time which gets spent on base taking missions is about 45 min,and I KNOW for a fact that some last much longer.
Tralfazz,you say a mission comes in,gets defense and leaves,you repeat it constantly.Whats the time frame you are talking about???
How often do any of you guys on knights or rooks who see missions being done on your respective sides,tell people after the base has been captured, that the "HORDE" mission which just took the afore-mentioned base was not good for the game,and it is hurting the game????
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While I can never be as eloquent as bustr, I wanted to share these quotes made earlier by Hitech. It seems to me that these two statements clearly explain the reasoning behind the changes, and who asked for them.
A few simple thoughts.
1. Best way to win a war is to hit the enemy where they ain't.
2. Best way to have fun in a combat orientated game is to have combat.
3. Attacking undefended targets is not combat even though it is the best strategy to win.
4. This is a game and not work or war. Expecting some one to be on defense with no idea if a strike is coming is not a legitimate expectation. Hence, you should defend your field is not a legitimate argument if it requires some one to do a very boring act with no guaranty of combat.
5. Defense now has more warning on a strike and time to organize a defense, so now we are more likely to have an offense and defense playing against each other instead of 2 offenses playing by themselves.
Hence these changes have nothing to do with fur-ball vs tool shedding. But simply about putting offense and defense on a more = level.
HiTech
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,291698.0.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,291698.0.html)
And for the record,
1. No player requested a change.
2. No player that I remember asked for no NOE radar.
3. No player requested longer radar ranges.
4. No player that I remember complained about NOE raids.
5. No player requested shorter ranges.
6. I do not remember any whines about the radar ranges.
7. We did not in any way make this change because of any whining.
HiTech
Now if anyone can come up with a logical argument that refutes the reasoning behind the changes, you might have a chance of getting it changed back to the old settings. However, since the changes I have not seen anything on the boards that's even close to refuting #4, so I suspect the changes are here for a while.
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We are no longer taught the true meaning of prose...
No... 'We' lose interest when someone like yourself thinks so much of himself and uses 'fif'y cent' words.
Chill dude its a bbs. :rofl
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Now if anyone can come up with a logical argument that refutes the reasoning behind the changes, you might have a chance of getting it changed back to the old settings. However, since the changes I have not seen anything on the boards that's even close to refuting #4, so I suspect the changes are here for a while.
Actually, if I wanted to, I could argue against #4. But the question is, do I want to... hmmm... well I suppose, even though I could care less either way.
An equal offense vs an equal defense is not fair in terms of base capture for a few reasons:
1) Part of the offense is distracted trying to shoot buildings, flying bombers, m3s, checking to see if the town is down, etc.
2) The offense travel time is ten times as long as the defense travel time (Assuming the hangars are up at the base being attacked)
2a) The defense can continuously take off and defend. Any kill on a defender is really only worth about 30 seconds of 1 con downtime assuming he takes right back off again. A kill on an offensive player is worth >5 minutes of downtime.
3) New town layout has deterred from a systematic efficient approach to taking a town down, further distracting the offense and giving the defense easy kills and buying them more time.
The only advantage the offense has is an altitude advantage, but if the defense is relentless, low ammo and bad luck will be the limiting factors for the offense, forcing a long rtb or a death and a long return.
In a nutshell, if a base is defended, it ain't getting captured without overwhelming horde-esque brute force. It probably takes at least 3:1/4:1 numerical advantage to capture a base against a half competent defensive force now. So for all of you (I have been guilty in the past also) saying "capture a base that is well defended", you are all dreaming for all intents and purposes.
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Well....dar rings smaller now (I assume alt is same) noe whordes are thrown a virtual bone
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Well....dar rings smaller now (I assume alt is same) noe whordes are thrown a virtual bone
Altitude is the same, 65ft.
Bish are rolling NOE after NOE, smashing & grabbing Knight field after field. Right now it seems Rooks are following that lead.
Hitech is in the arena for hours now, probably watching it.
I expect the worst...
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Well...I Was in Blue, Nits were in the south, and as we ALL know, watermelon rolls downhill :lol
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No... 'We' lose interest when someone like yourself thinks so much of himself and uses 'fif'y cent' words.
Chill dude its a bbs. :rofl
25 cent to be correct. Merriam takes coins and cheques. Furguson takes personal deposits. I've only been speaking the English language but, not prosaicly.
Then again I lose interest with you specificaly who lacks anything but prose and the repatitious reliance on misused and very obviously missunderstood vernacular as dismissives in public discorse. Communicate like you are not back somewhere in K12 or at least with some style to your insults. You appear to not like being challenged on your abillity to abuse the english language while taking a dismissive pass.
It's bad enough most 12th graders today no longer have the ability to understand much of what I've written so far. Don't act like one yourself because you missused the word prose beleiving it means an insultive, dismissive, connotation. The majority of americans aquire that fallatious understanding of the word "prose" before they leave highschool. It's usually because some english teacher was too lazy to present it correctly while using it themselves as a dismissive connotation towards poor work by students. Everyone has some version of old Mrs. Kranston or crabby Mr. Feinklestein as K12 english teachers.
When you can use an observation of prose without butchering it then maybe you can work on an interesting and engaging style to step up your insults. Signature material might be a good start to limber up your imagination and cut the prose. Less reliance on 12th grade mentality and some colorful indirect imagry with subtle entendra. So far YouWe as a collective peer poll aint cutting it. And I don't think you are still in highschool, though the use of a peer poll collective is a very teenage tool......Language and its written construction is very like graphology.<----sorry 30 cent word..oopsies.
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How often do any of you guys on knights or rooks who see missions being done on your respective sides,tell people after the base has been captured, that the "HORDE" mission which just took the afore-mentioned base was not good for the game,and it is hurting the game????
Falcon,
I am going to try to be as direct and non demeaning as I can with my statement as I possibly can here to be as constructive as I can.
You certainly can not be ignorant to the fact that one big reason that we have the new dar changes was because things were getting way out of hand with the NOE, smash/grab tactic. There comes a point where things start taking over the game, people refuse to log in or just log off after just being sick of it. I can pretty much assume why you wouldn't log into say LWorange if bish were getting ganged and had just a few bases left. You like using strategy, winning the war etc... Its fine and your choice of how to play, but realize the way YOU want to play ( I stress YOU because you are usually the culprit that leads those missions) does in fact affect others and how they play.
You focus on one thing and one thing only, winning the war and resetting the map. At what cost?..you spike ENY because of the fact that a country just doesn't like to be ganged so most of the lone players that like to fight on most balanced terms cant do so now because lets say your taking on average 20 guys( this is mild #s if you logged in last sunday) out of 100 of bish that are logged in and trolling them around the map trying to fly undetected avoiding contact at all cost Meanwhile you smash base X, if it worked or not you move on to another target taking 20-30% of resources with you and leaving 5 or 6 guys behind to deal with the angry mob as a result of your action. PS. Does all this ring a bell from the first squad you ever been in? :uhoh
Complaints are not just from your local nit or rook bad guys. Aside from your group of guys that like winning the war, There are alot of bish that hate these tactics, even if its the guys in green doing it. Same as Rook or Knights guys. YES you do affect gameplay and NO its not at a positive cost to a good percentage of players. I really hope you can look at this objectively and reach your own conclusions. :salute
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When you can use an observation of prose without butchering it...
Hey now. Im not insulting you but just pointing out your wasting your time 'flowering up' your text. Just say what you mean to say. At my age I read three flowered words and Im done reading. That kind of thing is for the wife. :lol
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Altitude is the same, 65ft.
Bish are rolling NOE after NOE, smashing & grabbing Knight field after field. Right now it seems Rooks are following that lead.
Hitech is in the arena for hours now, probably watching it.
I expect the worst...
Well, that figures. :( I was looking forward to (hopefully when I resolve my internet problem) posting more of an ominous "8th Air Force" mission for the bad guys to hunt for, but if this is what all three sides are gonna do, well.... shucks.
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so last night, in mw, it was mostly the few knights fighting the couple bish. i was the only rook on for a bit....although during my bomber flight a few more rooks logged in.
i took lancs up, climbed to altitude, and headed into enemy territory. i didn't go more than about 2 sectors deep, as i wasn't in possession of that much time, but all i felt like doing was learning the new bases a little, and dropping radar towers as i've mentioned before.
whelp........i was about half way through my run, when i saw a spit rolling down the runway(through my bombsight). i didn't pay him much mind, as i figured i'd be back in friendly territory by the time he climbed to me, and even then, my lancs were faster(or so i thought).
he caught up to me, and it turned out it was a spit8. he rushed his attack, as i think he was trying to get to me at the drop point, so he'd have some shots at me while not in the guns. he didn't make it. i dropped, manned the guns with him 1.5 out. he must've thought that i wasn't in the guns yet, as he went straight at the lead plane.....i smoked him pretty nicely, he dove out of guns range, and flew out front, as if that was safe.....hit him again, he circled, and settled in again my 6 high.....dove, and died.
2 bases later, i see a p47 climbing to me. it seemed to take him longer to catch me in that plane, although i thought they were faster than spits. by the time he was nearly in range, a friendly came to cover me.....the 47 downed him(thanks chevss <<S>> it was much appreciated). during their fight, me being low on fuel now, i made a run for the nearest friendly base. the 47 caught up with me again, and flew through the ack, as now 3 friendlies tried to catch him, to allow me to land.
he ignored them, planted himself on my six, slightly low, and that was when i discovered i was out of ammo in the tail. no problem......man the top turret, and bank the aircraft for the shot.
between the 4 of us, we took him apart. (it was the same dude that came for me in the spit8). i ran out fo fuel at about 1 mile from base, at 1500 feet. glided in, landed safely, and exited.
none of that would've happened with the old radar, as no one would've spent the time looking for a bomber that they couldn't see. since i was almost constantly on the enemy's radar, i got a little bit of fighting. even if he'd have shot down all of my bombers, that would've been fine, because at least i got a fight.
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none of that would've happened with the old radar, as no one would've spent the time looking for a bomber that they couldn't see. since i was almost constantly on the enemy's radar, i got a little bit of fighting. even if he'd have shot down all of my bombers, that would've been fine, because at least i got a fight.
Wrong. There are plenty of guys loving to hunt bombers "they can't see". I have killed hundreds of buffs that I was hunting outside dar circles, and I was shot down countless times being outside dar circles in buffs myself. It's a hunt, and hunting is fun.
And if you are really looking to get as much fight as possible in your bomber, you can still just fly into enemy dar to provoke reactions.
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In the past, and even now, when you Rooks & Knits in LW see a rather ominous-looking darbar grow deep in our Bishland, our mission has seen scouts filter our way to FIND (i.e. HUNT) for us. And the course of the fight grows from there. You "bad guys" prove you don't have to have the all knowing-all seeing radar dots of Bish B17's to know what's coming. And, damn right.. it's fun as hell. :cool:
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If all capturing was stopped this would still be a great game. Some of the best fights are when a CV is approaching a base. Both sides have equal ability to return if shot down. Most stay low and fight.
I only need one base to up from.
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Granted, I don't get a lot of time to fly but when I have, I haven't really seen strategy - what I've seen almost every time I sign in is a mammoth slug-fest at one field pair with each side working to bludgeon the other into submission by sheer weight of numbers and sheer "luck of the timing".
thats what I'm seeing :(
There are plenty of guys loving to hunt bombers "they can't see". I have killed hundreds of buffs that I was hunting outside dar circles, and I was shot down countless times being outside dar circles in buffs myself. It's a hunt, and hunting is fun.
I used to do this alot, always struck me as a very historical mission profile for fighters - patrolling areas where you think theres a good probability of a bomber raid. I get to do it alot less these days, not really sure if its because the bigger radar discourages the enemy buff drivers, or encourages more friendly buff hunters :headscratch:
We used to start smaller fights away from the furballing hordes alot which doesnt seem to work as well these days either. not sure why but dropping a few bombs on a town used to get a decent response and doesnt as much now. maybe because the defenders know that a take is less likely by 4 or 5 guys now with the town changes so dont bother upping to defend?
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Nbody disagrees with me? Figured i'd hook at least one person into a debate with that post!
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Altitude is the same, 65ft.
Bish are rolling NOE after NOE, smashing & grabbing Knight field after field. Right now it seems Rooks are following that lead.
Hitech is in the arena for hours now, probably watching it.I expect the worst...
No, he was in the tower cheating at poker again. Probably subsidizing his income due to the so called mass exodus of players :D
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thats what I'm seeing :(
I used to do this alot, always struck me as a very historical mission profile for fighters - patrolling areas where you think theres a good probability of a bomber raid. I get to do it alot less these days, not really sure if its because the bigger radar discourages the enemy buff drivers, or encourages more friendly buff hunters :headscratch:
We used to start smaller fights away from the furballing hordes alot which doesnt seem to work as well these days either. not sure why but dropping a few bombs on a town used to get a decent response and doesnt as much now. maybe because the defenders know that a take is less likely by 4 or 5 guys now with the town changes so dont bother upping to defend?
you do realize the radar is back to "normal" (~12 mile radius) in the LW arenas right?
as of several days ago, in fact.
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Nbody disagrees with me? Figured i'd hook at least one person into a debate with that post!
LOL Sorry Grizz I was going to respond but it's been a crazy hectic day. However, it seems the point is moot (is he still around) since the dar was changed back yesterday (was that temporary?). Personally I don't care one way or the other, I am able to find fights (or at least people to kill me) regardless of the settings. Also I appreciate Snailman's position about "the hunt" as a valuable part of game play.
I agree with your point that a prepared defense that's in place, and roughly equal to the attacking force, will 99% of the time stop and attack cold. Also as the quality of the pilots on defense goes up the number required for defense can drop significantly.
However, I believe that the original position that Hitech posted is still valid. With the radar range at 12 miles this doesn't provide enough warning for a country to properly defend it's bases. If you think about it mathematically, there is only a small % of players at any given time, that are in the tower and ready to fly defense. Given the speeds of most LW planes you are talking about that small percentage of players in the tower, responding within 3-5 minute window, to get to the flashing field, select a plane, and take-off, to get some alt, before the NOE attack arrives. And I don't think it's appropriate to expect players to augger/ditch/bail an existing flight to run to defend a field far away from where they are.
With that being said, I think the new airfield town (and v base) arrangement has slowed down the base capture rate (this will increase as more players become familiar with them), which then gives the defenders more time to respond.
And one final thought, looking at the player population as a whole (yes this is a generalization I know it doesn't apply to all), it seems that the natural progression is to start on the attack/offensive side of the game, but once (or if) the individual player learns more skills (ACM, gunnery, etc) he is more likely to start flying more in defense.
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LOL Sorry Grizz I was going to respond but it's been a crazy hectic day. However, it seems the point is moot (is he still around) since the dar was changed back yesterday (was that temporary?). Personally I don't care one way or the other, I am able to find fights (or at least people to kill me) regardless of the settings. Also I appreciate Snailman's position about "the hunt" as a valuable part of game play.
I agree with your point that a prepared defense that's in place, and roughly equal to the attacking force, will 99% of the time stop and attack cold. Also as the quality of the pilots on defense goes up the number required for defense can drop significantly.
However, I believe that the original position that Hitech posted is still valid. With the radar range at 12 miles this doesn't provide enough warning for a country to properly defend it's bases. If you think about it mathematically, there is only a small % of players at any given time, that are in the tower and ready to fly defense. Given the speeds of most LW planes you are talking about that small percentage of players in the tower, responding within 3-5 minute window, to get to the flashing field, select a plane, and take-off, to get some alt, before the NOE attack arrives. And I don't think it's appropriate to expect players to augger/ditch/bail an existing flight to run to defend a field far away from where they are.
With that being said, I think the new airfield town (and v base) arrangement has slowed down the base capture rate (this will increase as more players become familiar with them), which then gives the defenders more time to respond.
And one final thought, looking at the player population as a whole (yes this is a generalization I know it doesn't apply to all), it seems that the natural progression is to start on the attack/offensive side of the game, but once (or if) the individual player learns more skills (ACM, gunnery, etc) he is more likely to start flying more in defense.
you sure it was changed back? i was up in mw last night, and it was still expanded. like i had mentioned previously though, i didn't start flashing a base till i hit the point where the old dar rings used to be.
as for the ability to defend.......i generally fly lancs when i bomb stuff. my average drop speed is around 278mph. at this speed, that 12 miles disappears in 2.59 minutes.
at 325mph, it's covered in 2.2 minutes.
pretty hard, as you mentioned....to mount a good defense in that time frame.
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Falcon,
I am going to try to be as direct and non demeaning as I can with my statement as I possibly can here to be as constructive as I can.
You certainly can not be ignorant to the fact that one big reason that we have the new dar changes was because things were getting way out of hand with the NOE, smash/grab tactic. There comes a point where things start taking over the game, people refuse to log in or just log off after just being sick of it. I can pretty much assume why you wouldn't log into say LWorange if bish were getting ganged and had just a few bases left. You like using strategy, winning the war etc... Its fine and your choice of how to play, but realize the way YOU want to play ( I stress YOU because you are usually the culprit that leads those missions) does in fact affect others and how they play.
You focus on one thing and one thing only, winning the war and resetting the map. At what cost?..you spike ENY because of the fact that a country just doesn't like to be ganged so most of the lone players that like to fight on most balanced terms cant do so now because lets say your taking on average 20 guys( this is mild #s if you logged in last sunday) out of 100 of bish that are logged in and trolling them around the map trying to fly undetected avoiding contact at all cost Meanwhile you smash base X, if it worked or not you move on to another target taking 20-30% of resources with you and leaving 5 or 6 guys behind to deal with the angry mob as a result of your action. PS. Does all this ring a bell from the first squad you ever been in? :uhoh
Complaints are not just from your local nit or rook bad guys. Aside from your group of guys that like winning the war, There are alot of bish that hate these tactics, even if its the guys in green doing it. Same as Rook or Knights guys. YES you do affect gameplay and NO its not at a positive cost to a good percentage of players. I really hope you can look at this objectively and reach your own conclusions. :salute
If you really think I am the main culprit in these missions you are mistaken...
There have been many times when I have gone into an arena and seen BISH against the wall,sometimes I stay in the arena and times I log into the other arena..I am sure others do this as well..
ENY gets moved for all sides at one time or another,and all sides get ganged..moot point.
The first squad I was in basically no longer exists..moot point..
Well,I am not seeing complaints from bish when we take bases..and I assure you,that on your side,you dont have people upset about bases being taken either.no matter how it is done.
But you still didnt answer my original question..YOu always say that if a mission doesnt take a base they move somewhere else quickly..Define quickly..I already stated that 45min. to 1.5 hours or so is long enough for me to be trying to take a base,by then town is off sync in being destroyed and popping..
I just love the way you are saying it is I who is the cause of so much of this problem..try again,because I am not.
Ran a mission into a nit base just last night at ALT #119..just me and squad of about 6...took down vh,called some friendlys over to roll gv's,and air ,and then set up a mission off a cv which was north of the base..got about 8 people in that..rolled the mission,by then,we were getting the vulch on,and taking down town..Lusche was there..he knows it wasnt an NOE,paccer was there,he knows it wasnt an NOE..it was just some guys getting a base take started,and it grew and it worked...so your statement that i run NOE constantly is plain wrong..I use them,and while I favor them,I find that mixing it up is even better.. :salute
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you sure it was changed back?
In LW, it has changed back when TT arena was opened up.
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In LW, it has changed back when TT arena was opened up.
aahh...rgr that. did they keep it to the old settings, or only for titanic tuesday?
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With the radar range at 12 miles this doesn't provide enough warning for a country to properly defend it's bases.
With 12miles dar range a high alt raid, you still had the big darbar that said "INCOMING", no big difference. Same warning time.
With with a noe raid and new, extended radar range, all the horde had to do is to pork dar 15 mins before the main raid, as base warning range and darbar altitude had been the same. So the extended dar range didn't hurt a side with numbers much. After a few weeks confusion they figured that out, and you hat the same NOE crowd rolling bases as with the old radar settings. Only that they sometimes even had the comfort of having own dar coverage down to 65ft over the enemy base they were about to swarm, which sometimes really could hurt the few defenders. No more goon hunting on the deck.
Maybe one solution would be to extend the base warning range to 20 miles and lowering sector darbar altitude... that could really give the defending side some more time to scramble.
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aahh...rgr that. did they keep it to the old settings, or only for titanic tuesday?
It's still 12.5 miles range, 65ft altitiude dot dar, 500ft altitude darbar.
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Straight off the change back to the 12.5 range has made a difference to the times I fly....back to what it was. There are fights to be had...and now with the added thought and work to taking a town it has in my opinion allowed the defenders a good chance to save the base which in turn causes a good fight to happen..base takers and furballers alike...You could probably still roll a field I'm sure, but it certainly isn't the same as the box town system we had and now reverting back to not having the added advantage of knowing where attackers and/or defenders are at from take off means, although not a lot more, the need to think and predict routes adds to the play..
And on the hunting side of things...I used to find the thrill of the bardar hunt an effective change from the norm.....knowing they are headed to a certain point but not knowing the exact where about in a sector
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A thought! With me it only happens once in awhile.
If there was a way to Rotate the Airfields and Vehicle Fields so that they
were not always pointed N according to the printed map, this would really
slow down some of the snatch and grabs.
Is it possible from a programming perspective?
Right now its a cookie cutter situation for all A and V fields on the maps.
Bombers would also not be able to go in and have an already sure line on certain
targets before they could even see the fields.
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A thought! With me it only happens once in awhile.
If there was a way to Rotate the Airfields and Vehicle Fields so that they
were not always pointed N according to the printed map, this would really
slow down some of the snatch and grabs.
Is it possible from a programming perspective?
Right now its a cookie cutter situation for all A and V fields on the maps.
They are not pointed the same way on every map. On most maps they are pretty standard, but on Compello for example, some of them gave non standard alignment.
And it makes no difference in regards to captures. It's not that you are blind bombing the bases...
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Thnx I did not know that. Wil have to check out that map.
:salute
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Straight off the change back to the 12.5 range has made a difference to the times I fly....back to what it was. There are fights to be had...
For me as well - I was able to find time last night for flying (LW Orange??), and there was activity at several points on the map, which was really the main problem I had with the larger dar circles. I had a nice fight with jvShort and an unidentified Pony pilot over an otherwise inactive field, and then another a while later with Vinkman elsewhere on the map as I was covering a squadmate who was playing bomber pilot.
It was a pleasant change from choosing between flying in the mammoth furball, or flying alone. I understand and applaud Hitech's stated goals with the radar changes, but the greatly increased radar circles overall had a net negative effect - at least for me.
<S>
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For me as well - I was able to find time last night for flying (LW Orange??), and there was activity at several points on the map, which was really the main problem I had with the larger dar circles. I had a nice fight with jvShort and an unidentified Pony pilot over an otherwise inactive field, and then another a while later with Vinkman elsewhere on the map as I was covering a squadmate who was playing bomber pilot.
It was a pleasant change from choosing between flying in the mammoth furball, or flying alone. I understand and applaud Hitech's stated goals with the radar changes, but the greatly increased radar circles overall had a net negative effect - at least for me.
<S>
It was fun last night. I too found a series of 1v1, and 2v2. fights. Don't know if had anything to do with the radar distances. But it may be that folks spread out to find bandits in a sector when they aren't sure where they are. had some fun fights with Elk [that you Ghastly?], trooper2, and Blanch.
Good time <S>
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... it may be that folks spread out to find bandits in a sector when they aren't sure where they are.
this :aok
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It was fun last night. I too found a series of 1v1, and 2v2. fights. Don't know if had anything to do with the radar distances. But it may be that folks spread out to find bandits in a sector when they aren't sure where they are. had some fun fights with Elk [that you Ghastly?], trooper2, and Blanch.
Good time <S>
Nope, I fly as "Grue". I was in the F4U-1A escorting the B-17, tangled with you while you were flying the 109K.
<S>
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Nope, I fly as "Grue". I was in the F4U-1A escorting the B-17, tangled with you while you were flying the 109K.
<S>
Oh roger. That must have been the luckiest shot I made in a month, if I made it at all. In fact I wasn't even sure what happened. I didn't know you were down until I saw the <S> message, and I checked the buffer. You shot me up, oil all over the windshield, could see anything. You went striaght down and I pointed the nose down and took a desperation shot, couldn't see you, looked around and couldn't find you. Then rolled out and figured you were on my six about to kill me and saw the message. I wondered if I hit you or if you hit the water. What happened?
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run climb turn and shoot run climb turn and shoot run turn actually AH MA mantra (bad cheerleaders one :rofl !!!) !!!???
Before
1. run climb meet some good enemies to fights learn somthing and go to other interesing mission.
2. Want something fun with nice cover? Join noe mission.
3. Want something fun not noe? Try to ruin enemy noe mission plan.
4. etc,
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A nice tweak to dar would be, down time being reduced to say...5 min. There are LEGIONS of people in here who pay 15 bucks a month to make sure no front-line base EVER has dar
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You put that one bullet in exactly the right place! You were going over the top and I passed you on the way down intending to build back to corner when I saw you come around, heard a ping and instantly towered.
<S>
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A nice tweak to dar would be, down time being reduced to say...5 min. There are LEGIONS of people in here who pay 15 bucks a month to make sure no front-line base EVER has dar
+1. No need for dar to be down 45 mins. 5 mins is comprable even if you are on the attack.
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A nice tweak to dar would be, down time being reduced to say...5 min.
massive -1 for this.
as it is the hangars pop before you can even land the buffs you dropped em with. personally I'd like to see radar and ords hardened more (to at least 1k and bombs only - no strafing) and have em stay down longer. I'd prefer 20min for hangars and 40min for strat targets.
since the city/strat element has all but disappeared theres not alot for buffs to do now apart from bombing towns (which is worthwhile because they stay down a reasonable length of time.) as it stands you take a set of buffs to a historical alt, say 20k, bomb hangars or strat targets at 2 fields and rtb. a coupla minutes after you land, the map looks the same as when you took off :(
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massive -1 for this.
as it is the hangars pop before you can even land the buffs you dropped em with. personally I'd like to see radar and ords hardened more (to at least 1k and bombs only - no strafing) and have em stay down longer. I'd prefer 20min for hangars and 40min for strat targets.
since the city/strat element has all but disappeared theres not alot for buffs to do now apart from bombing towns (which is worthwhile because they stay down a reasonable length of time.) as it stands you take a set of buffs to a historical alt, say 20k, bomb hangars or strat targets at 2 fields and rtb. a coupla minutes after you land, the map looks the same as when you took off :(
+1
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Very hard to find medium or small size fights now. Most people have been pushed into one giant bellybutton furball it seems. I don't understand why people complained before when people did noes they
did their thing away from the furballers and the furballers fought in a different part of the map. There was always the option to go and defend against noes or base captures if you got bored of
the furball. Now one option go and fight the horde or fight in the horde.
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massive -1 for this.
as it is the hangars pop before you can even land the buffs you dropped em with. personally I'd like to see radar and ords hardened more (to at least 1k and bombs only - no strafing) and have em stay down longer. I'd prefer 20min for hangars and 40min for strat targets.
since the city/strat element has all but disappeared theres not alot for buffs to do now apart from bombing towns (which is worthwhile because they stay down a reasonable length of time.) as it stands you take a set of buffs to a historical alt, say 20k, boomb hangars or strat targets at 2 fields and rtb. a coupla minutes after you land, the map looks the same as when you took off :(
-1zillion!
(Not opposed to hardening though) dar rarely downed by heavy buffs at any rate, usually suicide 51's. If you make more than 2 accurate passes at the same base, fighters who upped at first sight
will be co-alt with you anyway. I can appreciate bombers trying to survive, but the vast majority of this stuff is people in their Lgays trying to get an edge
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-1zillion!
(Not opposed to hardening though) dar rarely downed by heavy buffs at any rate, usually suicide 51's. If you make more than 2 accurate passes at the same base, fighters who upped at first sight
will be co-alt with you anyway. I can appreciate bombers trying to survive, but the vast majority of this stuff is people in their Lgays trying to get an edge
in mw, the only time ya normally see any dar down, is if someone is rolling bases.
or if some bellybutton like me just ups lancs to go and see how many he can hit before someone shoots him down. i hit 10 a couple of nights ago, but a spit8, and than that same pile-it in a p47 kept me from hitting my last three targets.
last night, i upped lancs, climbed, and went deep into bish territory, to hit the main city. it was kind of fun and relaxing. i was however kind of disappointed that no one upped to come after me.
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The problem with dar and the changes are, for me,
Dar - No bounces, no getting bounced. No need for situational awareness skill. There is no reward for concentration, I fly around, panning my view hat all night and still not get an advantage over someone tabbing out to watch facebook etc n tabbing back in every 30 minutes to check the dar. Bouncing and situation awareness were an important part of WWII combat but they're not in AH thanks to the dar.
Capturing - requires a horde, end of story. Take a CV to a base its dead within minutes. Take 5 pilots it takes forever to capture. Its a frustrating system that requires hours and hours without a horde. If you take 5 your unlikely to cap, if you take 10 you end up in a furball that sometimes goes for hours, take 15-20 well you have a horde which is about as fun as logging off and requires a lot more effort.
Strats - Are basically not worth the coding that was put into them imo. The downtime duration is so short it generally takes more time to down them then the duration they are down.
Im a simulation guy, I like simulation, AH is more like CS in airplanes. Its a good CS airplane game but not one I am willing to pay for so I unsubscribed. If the elements that make up a good simulation are added back in I'll resubcribe.
Thats my 2 cents, these are opinions.
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The problem with dar and the changes are, for me,
Dar - No bounces, no getting bounced. No need for situational awareness skill. There is no reward for concentration, I fly around, panning my view hat all night and still not get an advantage over someone tabbing out to watch facebook etc n tabbing back in every 30 minutes to check the dar. Bouncing and situation awareness were an important part of WWII combat but they're not in AH thanks to the dar.
You might have missed that one, but the base radar ranges have been back to normal since last week now.
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...blah blah...Take 5 pilots it takes forever to capture...blah blah...Its a frustrating system that requires hours and hours without a horde...blah blah...but not one I am willing to pay for so I unsubscribed.
You're entitled to your opinion. The game's core is about combat - aerial combat and secondarily, ground combat - but combat nonetheless.
Were you fighting for hours? Then the game was working as intended.
Do you only care about easy base captures? Well, the game is about combat, so I guess you took the right approach and left.
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You're entitled to your opinion. The game's core is about combat - aerial combat and secondarily, ground combat - but combat nonetheless.
Were you fighting for hours? Then the game was working as intended.
Do you only care about easy base captures? Well, the game is about combat, so I guess you took the right approach and left.
While I am a combat guy and could care less about base captures. I am not sure that they have to be mutually exclusive...
If BOTH elements are possible (in the sense explained above, and not just one), would it not be a smart business decision to accomodate both camps instead of just one?
Or, you can just keep throwing out the "Don't let the door hit you in the bellybutton on the way out," attitude.
1. Base takers aren't going to FURBALL anyways; so all this is doing is leading to less subscriptions. It is *not* increasing your FURBALLS aka "combat" (in the long run) as you may seem to think.
2. What does it bother you if the base takers take bases, if you are a "combat" guy?
3. I keep seeing the claim that this game is solely about "aerial combat," and implying that base taking is not part of this game. Could you please show me a reference to this that specifically states that A) The Game is only about aerial (and GV) combat, and B) base taking is not part of the equation. One from HITECH and/or the website would be appreciated.....Please cite this claim....unless you want me to think that you just pulled it out of your arse.
Bottom Line: You can have both. Having one and excluding the other, will lead to less subscriptions...which leads to less money for HTC and less targets for you and me, which leads to less updates, which leads to less fun for everyone involved.
Again-I give 2 craps about taking bases; but lets think about long term implications to the game versus your short-term zest for combat.
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I'm not a mindless furballer; I'm a fighter. I'll up a plane or GV to attack or defend as long as there's a fight to be had (and I switch sides if that's the only way to find fights). I'd rather roll a GV and use my wits to kill an incoming GV, rather than what other think is a fight by upping a formation of Lancs to carpet-bomb that same GV. It actually irks me when I spend 5 or so minutes rolling, finally find the guy, start trading shots, and then some guy carpet-bombs the dude.
My post was in response to the comments that a base capture is too hard and takes too long and requires too much fighting. I'm sorry if that makes you think I'm a "furballer", but it amazes me how hard people try to avoid combat in a combat game and complain because they actually have to fight to win a base.
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I'm not a mindless furballer; I'm a fighter. I'll up a plane or GV to attack or defend as long as there's a fight to be had (and I switch sides if that's the only way to find fights). I'd rather roll a GV and use my wits to kill an incoming GV, rather than what other think is a fight by upping a formation of Lancs to carpet-bomb that same GV. It actually irks me when I spend 5 or so minutes rolling, finally find the guy, start trading shots, and then some guy carpet-bombs the dude.
My post was in response to the comments that a base capture is too hard and takes too long and requires too much fighting. I'm sorry if that makes you think I'm a "furballer", but it amazes me how hard people try to avoid combat in a combat game and complain because they actually have to fight to win a base.
I think the point he made was that it takes a HORDE to take a base now, not that he was trying to avoid combat. I can see how this is frustrating for him.....
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I'm not a mindless furballer; I'm a fighter. I'll up a plane or GV to attack or defend as long as there's a fight to be had (and I switch sides if that's the only way to find fights). I'd rather roll a GV and use my wits to kill an incoming GV, rather than what other think is a fight by upping a formation of Lancs to carpet-bomb that same GV. It actually irks me when I spend 5 or so minutes rolling, finally find the guy, start trading shots, and then some guy carpet-bombs the dude.
My post was in response to the comments that a base capture is too hard and takes too long and requires too much fighting. I'm sorry if that makes you think I'm a "furballer", but it amazes me how hard people try to avoid combat in a combat game and complain because they actually have to fight to win a base.
i was talking to my mom on the phone the other day....mostly 'cause i haven't talked to her in awhile. was talking about this game to her(she thinks it's ridicoulous that her 48 year old son flys cartoon airplanes)...but i mentioned how many try to avoid combat. her response?
"but isn't that the point of this game? combat?"
funny, a 70 year old woman gets what so many seem to fail to get. :D
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I think the point he made was that it takes a HORDE to take a base now, not that he was trying to avoid combat. I can see how this is frustrating for him.....
if it takes a horde to take a base now, would that not suggest that there may possibly be a horde defending said base? so you have to fight for it.
i've been in satans playmates, and in the hired guns. i've taken bases in both of those squadrons. without exception, the most satisfying captures were the hard fought ones.
well......them, and those that we manage to sneak troops in right under the defenders noses.
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I think the point he made was that it takes a HORDE to take a base now, not that he was trying to avoid combat. I can see how this is frustrating for him.....
I get his point, and I get that there's a satisfaction gained from capturing a base.
My point is, that people (for the most part) log into a combat game to fight and have fun. If you fight for two hours trying to capture/defend a base, is that not time well spent even if you don't end up capturing the base during the time you're online?
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some of the most fun fights i've had, are cv vs base battles......till someone comes along and sinks the cv.
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Um....I just came back after like 4 years and havent noticed a difference lol, what did they change with dar/radar?
-BigBOBCH
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BigBOBCH,
For a short period (I think approximately 3 weeks?) they had the radar range in the MA at approximately twice the size. They were put back about a week ago.
<S>
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Erm, whoopy? People are really crying about that?
-BigBOBCH
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Um....I just came back after like 4 years and havent noticed a difference lol, what did they change with dar/radar?
-BigBOBCH
go into the midwar arena. you'll notice larger radar rings on the bases. you'll see the dot of an enemy con coming in, but he won't flash the base till he hits the point where the old radar rings used to be.
that was in the lw arenas too, but it seems they've changed them back.
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Believe it or not, it had a huge impact on many aspects of the game that you'd not have expected.
<S>
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Erm, whoopy? People are really crying about that?
-BigBOBCH
they still crying even though it's been changed back :)
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Can't we all just shutup and play :D
<S> Oz
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Erm, whoopy? People are really crying about that?
Yes, we were. :)
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I get his point, and I get that there's a satisfaction gained from capturing a base.
My point is, that people (for the most part) log into a combat game to fight and have fun. If you fight for two hours trying to capture/defend a base, is that not time well spent even if you don't end up capturing the base during the time you're online?
There are those who would say a soccer game that ends in a 0-0 tie was a good soccer game as long as it was "well fought." There are others who say watching a game that you know usually ends with a 0-0 or 1-0 score is boring and pointless.
There's nothing wrong with fighting for a while to eventually capture the base, or not. But there is a point at which it takes too long, where frustration sets in and the attackers move on. That point is different for different people, but it is there. For us it is usually when we realize we've been at it too long, we aren't getting the upper hand on the defenders, and the town will start popping before the next set of troops gets there.
Put together a string of frustrated capture attempts, and to those who are goal oriented, it can start to feel like you are indeed wasting your time. The game starts to feel static and stagnate -- kind of like a 0-0 furball. :neener:
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I'm glad to see the hunt is still alive in Aces High with the reversion back to original radar coverage. Us 91st bomber boys just about got our butts kicked at 21 to 26K by you Rooks in LWOrange tonight. WTG! :aok