Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: JunkyII on October 13, 2010, 07:59:53 AM
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Last late war tour it scored the same as far as K/D as the hurri 2 c yet has double the ENY. I know it cant carry ord but its also seen quite a bit.
Its flat out the easier plane to fly. Handles better at high speed, guns are more accurate, and zooms a butt load better(thats right i said butt load).
I think their eny should be the same, but I would settle with the brew being a 15 eny.
:salute
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Eh, I'll give this a +1
Definitely not a 30 eny plane
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Where is Lusche with a numbers presentation? waiting....
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the Brew's munition is of lesser quality than the Hurri IIc's hispano's and it doesn't have the same level of armor protection. it does turn beautifully and it is surprising how well it can zoom, but it climbs like a rock. now the Hurri is not itself a great climber, but it will out climb the brew. additionally it will sustain it's E much better than the brew. they both take off and can start to turn aggressively just after wheels up at about the same level.
so with all things being generally considered i think the Hurri needs to have a lower ENY than the brew as it does out perform the brew in a couple of very important areas. the brew does not out perform the Hurri in any area, it can only claim that it is equal in some at most.
how much the ENY difference between the 2 should be..........well i don't know really. but i do feel there should be some difference between the two.
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Last late war tour it scored the same as far as K/D as the hurri 2 c yet has double the ENY. I know it cant carry ord but its also seen quite a bit.
Its flat out the easier plane to fly. Handles better at high speed, guns are more accurate, and zooms a butt load better(thats right i said butt load).
I think their eny should be the same, but I would settle with the brew being a 15 eny.
I'm not going to be commenting to the Eny itself since the subject itself is highly subjective and there seems to be plenty of inconsistancies in the figures depending on who is talking about them or looking at them.
I will say that your "comparison" to the Hurricane was hilariously inaccurate and biased. Not that that suprised me at all.
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Where is Lusche with a numbers presentation? waiting....
No charts, no numbers from me. Just one opinion: I'd say ENY 20-25 would be a better representation. 10-15 would be way too low. There is still a big difference between the Brew and the Winged Wirbel (Hurri IIC) ;)
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No charts, no numbers from me. Just one opinion: I'd say ENY 20-25 would be a better representation. 10-15 would be way too low. There is still a big difference between the Brew and the Winged Wirbel (Hurri IIC) ;)
Grizz and a few other Muppet's call it the RGP (Rotating Gun Platform) when Ink flies it! i must say though that i like your description just a lil better :banana: :banana: :banana:
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I'm not going to be commenting to the Eny itself since the subject itself is highly subjective and there seems to be plenty of inconsistancies in the figures depending on who is talking about them or looking at them.
I will say that your "comparison" to the Hurricane was hilariously inaccurate and biased. Not that that suprised me at all.
Attack me lol.
I dont know if the FM is off compared to what YOUR charts say but the Brew in game is flat out easier to fly...the Brew's munition is of lesser quality than the Hurri IIc's hispano's and it doesn't have the same level of armor protection. it does turn beautifully and it is surprising how well it can zoom, but it climbs like a rock. now the Hurri is not itself a great climber, but it will out climb the brew. additionally it will sustain it's E much better than the brew. they both take off and can start to turn aggressively just after wheels up at about the same level.
so with all things being generally considered i think the Hurri needs to have a lower ENY than the brew as it does out perform the brew in a couple of very important areas. the brew does not out perform the Hurri in any area, it can only claim that it is equal in some at most.
how much the ENY difference between the 2 should be..........well i don't know really. but i do feel there should be some difference between the two.
Hurri vs Brew in game Brew will win if you have = opponents. Now yes the hispanos are IMO better guns but thats not true for everyone. Alot of people would rather have the 50s especially in a slower plane for that added range.
Brew beats hurri in a dogfight. Good enough reason to have ENY lowered for the Brew
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I dont know if the FM is off compared to what YOUR charts say but the Brew in game is flat out easier to fly...
In my opinion: Not. :P
And on the guns: Range is not that important when tow relatively slow and turny birds meet each other. The Hispano has actually much better destructive power over range anyway (cannon shells vs solid bullets). Any short burst at any range by four Hispanos will do much more damage than four .50 cals
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In my opinion: Not. :P
And on the guns: Range is not that important when tow relatively slow and turny birds meet each other. The Hispano has actually much better destructive power over range anyway (cannon shells vs solid bullets). Any short burst at any range by four Hispanos will do much more damage than four .50 cals
Your right but I was referring to a slow plane fighitng faster planes....easier to hit up when they are further away running/extending.
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Attack me lol.
I didn't attack you at all, that's actually much more like your MO on this BBS. In your original post you forgot all the Brewster's weak points and dismissed any Hurricane's good points as if they didn't matter at all. So I called like I saw it; your "analysis" is hilariously biased.
Also I'm sure since you gave such an accurate verbal analysis (ie. zooms a butt load better :huh) of the Brewster's superiority in zoom-type climb compared to the Hurricane, you can provide some actual numbers from your extensive in-game testing? Right? Or have you done any testing at all?
Again, I won't comment on the Eny values of any plane as anyone's opinion on them is just that, a subjective opinion and nothing more. HTC ultimately makes decisions on the values and I settle at that. I however would like to see a new revised ENY system alltogether which would remove the subjectiveness of the current system, but that's a topic of a new thread.
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Brewster ENY is ok.
I've flown it quite a bit lately and really enjoyed it when one guy after another fell into the T&B trap, but any other situation than that, it's has severe limitations.
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I'll never understand you guy's obsession with eny. who cares what eny it has, they all die the same way :).
semp
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Brewster ENY is ok.
I've flown it quite a bit lately and really enjoyed it when one guy after another fell into the T&B trap, but any other situation than that, it's has severe limitations.
Question- Do you start into the furball with alt? I find that makes all the difference with the Brew. If the Brew starts with advantage, I find it has crazy maneuvering/zoom climb capabilities. I've never noticed the same with the Hurri 2, but to be honest I haven't flown it in a good long while.
In the Brew, I feel I can kill at will if I start with advantage. Generally speaking if I am feeling that way flying something, that means it's borderline uber.
Wiley.
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I'll never understand you guy's obsession with eny. who cares what eny it has, they all die the same way :).
semp
Lowers the reward for flying the plane.
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I didn't attack you at all, that's actually much more like your MO on this BBS. In your original post you forgot all the Brewster's weak points and dismissed any Hurricane's good points as if they didn't matter at all. So I called like I saw it; your "analysis" is hilariously biased.
Also I'm sure since you gave such an accurate verbal analysis (ie. zooms a butt load better :huh) of the Brewster's superiority in zoom-type climb compared to the Hurricane, you can provide some actual numbers from your extensive in-game testing? Right? Or have you done any testing at all?
Again, I won't comment on the Eny values of any plane as anyone's opinion on them is just that, a subjective opinion and nothing more. HTC ultimately makes decisions on the values and I settle at that. I however would like to see a new revised ENY system alltogether which would remove the subjectiveness of the current system, but that's a topic of a new thread.
I fly pretty much the same aircraft every tour. How different planes handle compared to those can be considered a sort of "Test".
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Sounds almost like a Spit XVI whine :D Perk the Brewster it's to uber it's to fast it can do everything.
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Usually when I see a high brewster I try to run away unless I'm in a 234. I don't like fighting them because if it has more E it's a death sentence for pretty much any plane in-game if the Brew pilot is decent.
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I fly pretty much the same aircraft every tour. How different planes handle compared to those can be considered a sort of "Test".
<sigh>
I don't quite have words for this...or well I do, but it's best if I won't comment further.
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Have to agree with Wmaker; it's all an opinion until numbers and real analysis starts being put out. And IMO the average AH player will do a lot better in the Hurri 2c than the brewster.
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server hiccup double post
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Like every other plane in this game the Brewster can be a terror when encountered with an E or alt advantage. Not to mention if you choose to take the wrong plane into the Brewster strengths like low TnB style fighting. My answer to the Brewster has always been to BnZ it to death, and not turn with it. If it is higher than me, pull back, get alt on the Brewster, then BnZ it to death.
I say let's see how it's usage, success, K/D ratio, and other game stats that would affect it's ENY play out. Right now, it's all subjective with no real data to the discussion.
:salute
Way
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I say let's see how it's usage, success, K/D ratio, and other game stats that would affect it's ENY play out.
You volunteered? http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/newscores/planes.php :D
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You volunteered? http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/newscores/planes.php :D
For current Late War Tour (as of today) the Brewster's K/D ratio (1308/1142) is 1.14. For comparison purposes the Hurricane IIC has a K/D ratio (1163/997) of 1.17.
For previous Late War Tour the Brewster's KD ratio (3855/3749) was 1.03. For comparison purposes the Hurricane IIC had a K/D ratio (3608/3511) of 1.03 also.
Very similar usage, kills, deaths, K/D ratio, etc. Interesting... If the decision to change the Brewsters ENY was based solely on this information then it should be lowered.
Talk amongst yourselves.
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You volunteered? http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/newscores/planes.php :D
So you're saying to perk the Chutes and 5"? :O
Chute 261 0 261.00
Ship Gunner 11150 0 11150.00
oh and neg on the Brewster. You'd have too many other planes requiring the same. Just learn to kill it, then it can't kill you. Simple.
-1
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So you're saying to perk the Chutes and 5"? :O
Chute 261 0 261.00
Ship Gunner 11150 0 11150.00
First time I ever looked at those stat pages. Funny isn't it? :lol
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For current Late War Tour (as of today) the Brewster's K/D ratio (1308/1142) is 1.14. For comparison purposes the Hurricane IIC has a K/D ratio (1163/997) of 1.17.
For previous Late War Tour the Brewster's KD ratio (3855/3749) was 1.03. For comparison purposes the Hurricane IIC had a K/D ratio (3608/3511) of 1.03 also.
Very similar usage, kills, deaths, K/D ratio, etc. Interesting... If the decision to change the Brewsters ENY was based solely on this information then it should be lowered.
Talk amongst yourselves.
Some things to consider about the Hurricane: It can carry ords and has almost more than 3x the firepower. The gap is fine I think.
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Some things to consider about the Hurricane: It can carry ords and has almost more than 3x the firepower. The gap is fine I think.
I agree Boozeman. It's why I put this little diddy in there: If the decision to change the Brewsters ENY was based solely on this information then it should be lowered. We all know HTC considers way more than just K/D ratio to determine ENY.
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Some things to consider about the Hurricane: It can carry ords and has almost more than 3x the firepower. The gap is fine I think.
Brew shouldnt have the same just because of the ord and guns for sure. But the hurri does get kills against GVs and the Brew is pretty much all air to air.
Like every other plane in this game the Brewster can be a terror when encountered with an E or alt advantage. Not to mention if you choose to take the wrong plane into the Brewster strengths like low TnB style fighting. My answer to the Brewster has always been to BnZ it to death, and not turn with it. If it is higher than me, pull back, get alt on the Brewster, then BnZ it to death.
I say let's see how it's usage, success, K/D ratio, and other game stats that would affect it's ENY play out. Right now, it's all subjective with no real data to the discussion.
:salute
Way
Thats a perfect world. In a furball it can be imposible to stay fast enough to get away from the Brew as it comes at you and if your already low and slow a brew can sneak up with very few problems.
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Brew shouldnt have the same just because of the ord and guns for sure. But the hurri does get kills against GVs and the Brew is pretty much all air to air.
Thats a perfect world. In a furball it can be imposible to stay fast enough to get away from the Brew as it comes at you and if your already low and slow a brew can sneak up with very few problems.
I counted 208 tank kills for the Hurri 2c in LWA tour 128. That's like 6% of all Hurri 2C kills. The vast majority are A2A kills.
And if you are low and slow in a furball, it's no suprise that you'll become Brewster-Fodder.It's where it shines best. But an A6M can do the same. So can the I-16. Just because the Brewster does well in a furball does not mean it needs a low ENY
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JunkyII,
In your original post you said:
I think their eny should be the same,
And now you say:
Brew shouldnt have the same just because of the ord and guns for sure.
So which is it? Pretty hard to even begin to take you seriously when you even don't know what you want yourself.
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Should have known Junky if it was a brewster post wmaker would jump in and tear you apart.
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Should have known Junky if it was a brewster post wmaker would jump in and tear you apart.
lol yeah, he got me :)
Had a change of heart while reading arguements Wmaker.
But we have comparable matchups with other planes of same eny.....
F4U1D-KI84 F6F-KI84
Both those fights can really go either way but the KI84 can fight from E- a bit better then the Hog, F6F the difference isnt quite as much.
But both the planes the KI84 are compared to can level any hangar....thats pretty important for most in this game.
I think HTC should bring the Brews eny down to 20 at first and see how the numbers look for acouple months.
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I do think the ENY should be 20 if not 15. The only reason the Hurri is 'better' is because of the hizookas.
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I will agree that 30 ENY is just a tad bit too high. I'm thinking a 20 or 25 ENY value for the Brewster would be a bit more appropriate. The plane is starting to get more use since it was released. However, lowering the ENY really isn't going to change anything for anyone except for rewarding less perks for those who fly it.
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I will agree that 30 ENY is just a tad bit too high. I'm thinking a 20 or 25 ENY value for the Brewster would be a bit more appropriate. The plane is starting to get more use since it was released. However, lowering the ENY really isn't going to change anything for anyone except for rewarding less perks for those who fly it.
Id like to see the numbers after like 4 months of it being a 20 eny.
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Id like to see the numbers after like 4 months of it being a 20 eny.
I don't think that would effect it much, You can still get 20 perks a sortie in a 20 ENY plane.
Its not like people are flying them to take bases when their ENY is 29 because they want to win the war.
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I think HTC should bring the Brews eny down to 20 at first and see how the numbers look for acouple months.
What kind of numbers are you looking for?
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What kind of numbers are you looking for?
I would say similar ongoing numbers to what I posted above. Let me state for the record I have no care whether the ENY is adjusted or not. I have found that most people that get nailed by a Brewster then grump on it are flying within the Brewster's favorable flight envelope. Big mistake depending on what you are flying!
If there was a change it would not be significant enough to impact the Brewster's usage. The fact that the Brewster is used more than the Hurricane IIC and it has more or less the same K/D ration does raise the possibility of an ENY change. At a 30 ENY it is enjoying as much success as a 10 ENY plane, and this should raise an eyebrow. I am sure that there are other correlations to be found if one was to look for them. I just used the Hurricane IIC because it was used in comparison earlier. If HTC chooses to incorporate other factors into their decision (which they probably would), means it would probably be a very small ENY change.
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At a 30 ENY it is enjoying as much success as a 10 ENY plane, and this should raise an eyebrow.
Don't raise it too much. You would end up with giving the P-38J ENY 5 and probably a perk status even ;)
In tour 128, the B-239 and the HurriC had about the same K/D
If you take a very close look at Brewster and Hurricanes stats in tour 128, you will discover that many more players did fly the Hurricane. You will also note that the Brew had a few very dedicated experts, the Hurricane had not. The top 3 Brew aces had 23% of all kills (with a average K/D of 4.22) while the top 3 HurriC aces had only 10% of all Hurri kills with a K/D of only 0.99)
A few dedicated pilots can skew a planes overall K/D beyond what we would expect by raw performance data. The mentioned P-38J is a prime example. Heck, I had boosted the MA K/D of some rare birds by ~50% all by myself.
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I would also respectfully submit that a good number of people are refraining from using it because it's seen as easymode. I could be wrong on that, but I think a lot of average pilots avoid them for that reason.
It seems to me that guys that habitually fly the Brew, the Hurri C and the P38 in particular are either new, or they have put in significant time to get to know them well enough to be REALLY good with them, thus skewing the stats.
It seems to me that HTC has set up the ENY so that less skilled guys have something they can do ok in at every 'level', so that might be playing a part as well, that the Brew is the 30 ENY twisty plane of choice.
Wiley.
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Had a change of heart while reading arguements Wmaker.
Ok, that's fair enough.
The only reason the Hurri is 'better' is because of the hizookas.
False.
While the speed on the deck is indeed very very important (Brewster is couple mph faster on the deck), Hurricane is still faster at most altitudes and climbs better with WEP at all altitudes aswell. Also, some traits that are very important in fighter vs fighter combat haven't even been mentioned in this thread. one is that Hurricane is still far more stable gun platform (one of the best in the game infact) than Brewster and has a lot better six view.
...for some reason, things like these are *conviniently* forgotten. :)
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/newscores/genchart.php?p1=101&p2=55&pw=2>ype=0)
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/newscores/genchart.php?p1=101&p2=55&pw=2>ype=2)
I would also respectfully submit that a good number of people are refraining from using it because it's seen as easymode. I could be wrong on that, but I think a lot of average pilots avoid them for that reason.
It seems to me that guys that habitually fly the Brew, the Hurri C and the P38 in particular are either new, or they have put in significant time to get to know them well enough to be REALLY good with them, thus skewing the stats.
It seems to me that HTC has set up the ENY so that less skilled guys have something they can do ok in at every 'level', so that might be playing a part as well, that the Brew is the 30 ENY twisty plane of choice.
This really isn't worth answering.
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Uou would have to agree that most of the fights in the MA are lower alt fights. I personally dont fly over 7-8k very often because there really isnt a need to even with the guys flying a 15k.
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Uou would have to agree that most of the fights in the MA are lower alt fights.
Certainly I agree with that! The highest alt I ever climb with Brewster prior arriving to an enemy field is 9-10k and that is fairly rare. I will climb higher after spotting cons at higher alts off course
I just don't quite see your point? Where are you getting at? Is it something I said regards the speeds of the Hurricane on the deck compared to the Brewster? In this guest for the right eny on these planes, I think too many people are too hung up on how they do vs each other instead of thinking what traits are generally needed in the MA.
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one is that Hurricane is still far more stable gun platform (one of the best in the game infact)
And this is (combined with maneuverability) exactly the reason why the Hurri got monikers like "winged wirbel" or "rotating gun platform". You simply whirl it around, point & shoot. Reach out & touch.
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Could someone refresh my memory please?
I saw that HTC did work to the FM of the Brewster to help some " stability issues". (v2.19 notes)
I checked the search function but couldn't find what I was looking for. Do we have anything nailed down yet as to what happened? (Got any data Wmaker, Ack, Snailman, anybody?) I just think that a little explanation would go a long way toward putting people at ease about the plane.
Perhaps the Brew really should fly like a lazer on rails. If that's the case, we're just gonna have to learn how to fight them. (Personally, I just HO every Brewster I see.)
I remember when that patch came out. You RARELY saw Brews before hand, then BANG, everybody started flying them. Pretty drastic and sweeping change of opinion about that plane.
Was the FM really THAT badly screwed in the first place, or is it screwed now? Or is it just right? I don't know.
Enjoy
<S> Melvin
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Hurri2C should have no problem with the Brewster. my $.02
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I saw that HTC did work to the FM of the Brewster to help some " stability issues". (v2.19 notes)
I checked the search function but couldn't find what I was looking for. Do we have anything nailed down yet as to what happened? (Got any data Wmaker, Ack, Snailman, anybody?) I just think that a little explanation would go a long way toward putting people at ease about the plane.
Here's a topic which deals with the directional instability issues that Brewster had before: http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,270213.0.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,270213.0.html)
Perhaps the Brew really should fly like a lazer on rails.
Don't know quite what you mean, but Brewster even in it's current condition doesn't really compare to the best gun platforms in AH.
I remember when that patch came out. You RARELY saw Brews before hand, then BANG, everybody started flying them. Pretty drastic and sweeping change of opinion about that plane.
I don't think the increase in usage was quite as drastic as you potray it but, yes, at least the number of kills scored by the Brewster in a tour did increase.
Was the FM really THAT badly screwed in the first place, or is it screwed now? Or is it just right? I don't know
It was, in a way, quite "unpleasant" to fly when it comes to those aspects of the flight model. In terms of what was corrected and is it "right" right now, it's best that you refer to the thread I gave the link to.
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Just don't turn with em....no matter how tempting....don't turn with em! :)
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considering both planes couldn't catch a cold I doubt changing their ENY values would make any bit of difference in how often they get used.
When I see people hording I don't see a bunch of Brew's or hurricanes coming after my base ;)
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Certainly I agree with that! The highest alt I ever climb with Brewster prior arriving to an enemy field is 9-10k and that is fairly rare. I will climb higher after spotting cons at higher alts off course
I just don't quite see your point? Where are you getting at? Is it something I said regards the speeds of the Hurricane on the deck compared to the Brewster? In this guest for the right eny on these planes, I think too many people are too hung up on how they do vs each other instead of thinking what traits are generally needed in the MA.
The reason for always thinking the brew owned a hurri was the alt of the fight, I probably have never had a hurri vs anything or brew vs anything fight above 5k.
edit Wasnt looking at the whole picture just where most furballing happened.
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Just don't turn with em....no matter how tempting....don't turn with em! :)
Yeah you can turn with them. :D
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/brewvsbd.jpg)