Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: 800nate on October 13, 2010, 08:54:54 PM
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i think the P-51D should have a eny of 10 or 15
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Great fuel and ord loadout, 6 .50 cals and speed. ENY is good at 5. :salute
Why do you think the ENY should be raised?
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Because Nate cant fly the p51.
Now that I think about it, he has trouble flying anything.
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Compare the p47M to the p51.
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The 109K should be 5 with the P-51 and P-47. Sh*t, make everything have a ENY of 5.
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Compare the p47M to the p51.
The M model jug doesn't carry 3000 lbs or ord.
The 109K4 and 47M are not as versatile as the 51D. This is one reason why their respective ENYs are higher.
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109k has only average fuel, 0 ordinance, and 3 guns. Yes it has 30mm, but only 65 rounds, and the 2 13mm require a bit more skill and firing time to be effective.
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Look at what the most used fighters are. That is why the P-51D has an ENY of 5.
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Look at what the most used fighters are. That is why the P-51D has an ENY of 5.
While this is true, isn't it also it's K/D and some other factors that decide it's ENY? By the way I oppose raising it's ENY. I believe it to be accurate for current usage and such.
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ENY not generated by a single criterion. It's by taking everything into account... pure performance, versatility, usage and so on.
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ENY not generated by a single criterion. It's by taking everything into account... pure performance, versatility, usage and so on.
Thanks Lusche!
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I landed 12 kills in a pony without any yearns before...eny is perfect that plane
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The 109K should be 5 with the P-51 and P-47. Sh*t, make everything have a ENY of 5.
in my hands, the FM-2 should be 5 eny :noid
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The 109K should be 5 with the P-51 and P-47. Sh*t, make everything have a ENY of 5.
Someone please pry that bottle out of his hands.... :noid
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Loosh said it correctly: the P51D is highly versatile. It can do all roles very well. Yes, even the turn fight. ;)
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i think the P-51D should have a eny of 10 or 15
I think you should explain your reasoning as to why. As of right now, the ENY value is fine where it's at. All of the above posts basically explain everything quite well.
Next time you post a new thread on the wishlist, you should support your statements with facts.
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Funny.... i get more kills in a Bravo than a Delta stang... :noid :neener:
Edit: even better... the 109K4 is my nemesis while in the Bravo...
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i think the P-51D should have a eny of 10 or 15
I think personally the Ponies ENY is fine where it's at.
The 38J should be at 15 and the 38L at 10...IMO. But that's about the only small change I see that might be ok.
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I think personally the Ponies ENY is fine where it's at.
The 38J should be at 15 and the 38L at 10...IMO. But that's about the only small change I see that might be ok.
the P38J seems fine at 20, because once you start diving in that thing, it gets hard to control it compared to the L (which seems fine at 15), also it cant fly as long while carrying the same ord loadout that the 51's got and it cant maneuver as well in the long run (some will disagree with this, but the P51 in general is easier for someone to fly than the 38). the 51 can kill just as easily as the 38, out run them, at alt the twin allisons dont work as well as the 51's merlins. should i keep going? :headscratch:
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the P38J seems fine at 20, because once you start diving in that thing, it gets hard to control it compared to the L (which seems fine at 15), also it cant fly as long while carrying the same ord loadout that the 51's got and it cant maneuver as well in the long run (some will disagree with this, but the P51 in general is easier for someone to fly than the 38). the 51 can kill just as easily as the 38, out run them, at alt the twin allisons dont work as well as the 51's merlins. should i keep going? :headscratch:
P-38 still owns it
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P-38 still owns it
:rofl thats not in question here
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well it entered service in what 44 44
:headscratch:
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well it entered service in what 44 45
:headscratch:
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well it entered service in what 44 44
:headscratch:
And your point is?
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the P38J seems fine at 20, because once you start diving in that thing, it gets hard to control it compared to the L (which seems fine at 15),
The P-38J dives just as well and is just as controllable as the P-38L in a dive. The only ones that have an issue with diving in any of the P-38s are the ones with lack of experiencing in flying it. Even with the P-38L I rarely use the dive flaps to recover from a dive as I don't need them and usually only use them to aid in high speed turning.
also it cant fly as long while carrying the same ord loadout that the 51's got
True that the P-38 doesn't quite have the legs as the Mustang, but with fuel conservation settings the P-38's effective range is just as far in the MA as the Mustang so it's rather a moot point.
it cant maneuver as well in the long run (some will disagree with this, but the P51 in general is easier for someone to fly than the 38).
The P-38J (G and L too) can out maneuver the Mustang at all altitudes.
should i keep going? :headscratch:
Yes, please do because maybe next time you'll get something correct.
ack-ack
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The 109K should be 5 with the P-51 and P-47. Sh*t, make everything have a ENY of 5.
If the 109k should be 5, then you should be able to hop in one and kill rather easily. I know i know, *if only* you had good aim you could. But see, that is the catch22 and why it isn't eny 5.
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The P-38J dives just as well and is just as controllable as the P-38L in a dive. The only ones that have an issue with diving in any of the P-38s are the ones with lack of experiencing in flying it. Even with the P-38L I rarely use the dive flaps to recover from a dive as I don't need them and usually only use them to aid in high speed turning.
True that the P-38 doesn't quite have the legs as the Mustang, but with fuel conservation settings the P-38's effective range is just as far in the MA as the Mustang so it's rather a moot point.
The P-38J (G and L too) can out maneuver the Mustang at all altitudes.
Yes, please do because maybe next time you'll get something correct.
ack-ack
hey ackack... youre not the average pilot. you put a newb in a 51 and a 38 who doesnt know about each's strengths and weaknesses. you see which outflies which. ok? stop ragging on people for being "wrong"...
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hey ackack... youre not the average pilot. you put a newb in a 51 and a 38 who doesnt know about each's strengths and weaknesses. you see which outflies which.
You are using pilot skill to compare the maneuverability and performance of two different planes, that will lead to inconclusive and inaccurate results.
ok? stop ragging on people for being "wrong"...
When one gives incorrect advice, don't be surprised when it gets corrected.
ack-ack
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You are using pilot skill to compare the maneuverability and performance of two different planes, that will lead to inconclusive and inaccurate results.
When one gives incorrect advice, don't be surprised when it gets corrected.
ack-ack
yet with the inexperience of both pilots, the planes will fly differently compared to two pilots that know the aircraft they fly in. ive shot down P38s in a p51 because they did not have the experience to fly the 38 and/or did not know how the P51 can fly.
i dont care if i am corrected, but when someone corrects me with a cocky attitude, it's rude and i get annoyed.
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Great fuel and ord loadout, 6 .50 cals and speed. ENY is good at 5. :salute
Why do you think the ENY should be raised?
Because of the 30k+ savings on fuel.
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yet with the inexperience of both pilots, the planes will fly differently compared to two pilots that know the aircraft they fly in. ive shot down P38s in a p51 because they did not have the experience to fly the 38 and/or did not know how the P51 can fly.
Just because an inexperienced pilot in a P-38 was shot down by another inexperienced pilot in a Mustang isn't going to change that fact the Lightning is more maneuverable. The Lightning at the controls of an inexperienced player is still as maneuverable as a Lightning in the hands of an experienced player, the only difference is the experienced player knows how to squeeze all he can out of the Lightning, whereas the inexperienced player doesn't and gets out turned by someone in a Mustang.
i dont care if i am corrected, but when someone corrects me with a cocky attitude, it's rude and i get annoyed.
(http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:4yTU1RLFTkVqcM:http://www.milkmanthefilm.com/akirawing/img/Worlds%20Smallest%20Violin.jpg&t=1)
ack-ack
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Ack-Ack, King of Zing.
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Just because an inexperienced pilot in a P-38 was shot down by another inexperienced pilot in a Mustang isn't going to change that fact the Lightning is more maneuverable. The Lightning at the controls of an inexperienced player is still as maneuverable as a Lightning in the hands of an experienced player, the only difference is the experienced player knows how to squeeze all he can out of the Lightning, whereas the inexperienced player doesn't and gets out turned by someone in a Mustang.
(http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:4yTU1RLFTkVqcM:http://www.milkmanthefilm.com/akirawing/img/Worlds%20Smallest%20Violin.jpg&t=1)
ack-ack
ignoring the picture :rolleyes:
then honestly, how is it that when im in a fight against a 38 in my P51B, i manage to outfly them and kill them? id like to know, because you say your 38 is more maneuverable than my 51. id like to get you in the DA just to see the differences between the two planes actually. this is making me curious now...
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ignoring the picture :rolleyes:
You gotta admit, that was a little funny. :D
<S> Bar
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Some people petition for the perking of the 51, others for lowering the eny. Make up your minds people.
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Some people petition for the perking of the 51, others for lowering the eny. Make up your minds people.
In fairness B4, I think it has a 50% chance! :lol
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Heh, that's sound logic!
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If the 109k should be 5, then you should be able to hop in one and kill rather easily. I know i know, *if only* you had good aim you could. But see, that is the catch22 and why it isn't eny 5.
I was thinking more on speed, clime rate, turn and acceleration that gives it the ENY 5. Yea, gun package is weak but like you said, good aim makes it deadly. I know this because of the hell of a shot you had on me. Also, i up a few time in the G14, i can easy take out a bomber by one shot on the wing.
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Also, i up a few time in the G14, i can easy take out a bomber by one shot on the wing.
Nah, it takes like 5-6 taters normally.
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I was thinking more on speed, clime rate, turn and acceleration that gives it the ENY 5. Yea, gun package is weak but like you said, good aim makes it deadly. I know this because of the hell of a shot you had on me. Also, i up a few time in the G14, i can easy take out a bomber by one shot on the wing.
Using that logic the K-4 should be a 3 :rofl
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Nah, it takes like 5-6 taters normally.
I can get 1-2 rounds on a dive. They are on fire.
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I can get 1-2 rounds on a dive. They are on fire.
Maybe occasionally. On average it takes around 5-6 to kill a heavy bomber.
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Yeah? YEAH?
Well let me think about this. I hate P-51D's. The B's are cool, but the D's suuuuck. The only reason I support the notion of PERKING the 51D is because it can outrun almost anything and when you fly it, the guns are so unstable you either have to fly the thing nonstop 24 hours to get your eye in, or fly 3 feet away. And you cannot win a turn fight unless fighting something with inferior weight statistics, Even 190's beat it with their roll.
Its fine where it is, cause its only use is anti 109, Typh and 262 duties.
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Yeah? YEAH?
Well let me think about this. I hate P-51D's. The B's are cool, but the D's suuuuck. The only reason I support the notion of PERKING the 51D is because it can outrun almost anything and when you fly it, the guns are so unstable you either have to fly the thing nonstop 24 hours to get your eye in, or fly 3 feet away. And you cannot win a turn fight unless fighting something with inferior weight statistics, Even 190's beat it with their roll.
Its fine where it is, cause its only use is anti 109, Typh and 262 duties.
I have to say, I disagree with most of your post. The 51D accelerates slow, which is a huge factor if you plan on doing any kind of turning. I've always thought it to be a very stable gun platform. It's very stable when compared to a Spitfire, F4U, or La-7 (some of the other more popular rides in the MA). The 51D can turnfight. Not many players try is all. They are under the impression it just "can't" turn, so don't bother trying.
With that being said, you said you support the perking of a 51D but think it is unstable, turns bad, and its' only duty is anti 109, typhoon, and 262 duties? Ok...
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Yeah? YEAH?
Well let me think about this. I hate P-51D's. The B's are cool, but the D's suuuuck. The only reason I support the notion of PERKING the 51D is because it can outrun almost anything and when you fly it, the guns are so unstable you either have to fly the thing nonstop 24 hours to get your eye in, or fly 3 feet away. And you cannot win a turn fight unless fighting something with inferior weight statistics, Even 190's beat it with their roll.
Its fine where it is, cause its only use is anti 109, Typh and 262 duties.
P51s cant turn? :rofl :rofl :rofl you get me in the DA against your spit, and yes, it cant out turn you. but you follow me at 400mph with many aircraft from the game then you see who's out turning who :rofl
also, on actual turn fights, those flaps give you a major maneuvering advantage. you just need to see that flaps do alot for a 51
I was commented one time on a reversal i did on a typhoon, i pulled up so fast that he literally lost sight on me until my .50s were passing his wing. The P51 can turn, you just need to learn its not so secret secret... :aok
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The one thing I will say is that if the pilots are even, the P-51D is outmatched by most ENY 5 planes in at least one or two categories (At low-altitudes, where most of this game occurs, unfortunately). Also, the fact that it's directional stability is so poor makes it a more difficult aircraft to fly initially, which may contribute to one's perception of an unstable gun platform.
However, in the hands of a master, it is a very deadly aircraft.
I fly the Bravo over the Delta as well Bar, however I'm not anywhere near what I would call a "master." Fights with Spitfires still put me in a bad mood... :mad:
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P51s cant turn? :rofl :rofl :rofl you get me in the DA against your spit, and yes, it cant out turn you. but you follow me at 400mph with many aircraft from the game then you see who's out turning who :rofl
also, on actual turn fights, those flaps give you a major maneuvering advantage. you just need to see that flaps do alot for a 51
I was commented one time on a reversal i did on a typhoon, i pulled up so fast that he literally lost sight on me until my .50s were passing his wing. The P51 can turn, you just need to learn its not so secret secret... :aok
it's a troll, a bad one at that.
ack-ack
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51's suck. I am for perking them just so they clear out of the airspace :P
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Leave the Delta where it is . The Bravo gets more use by dedicated 51 pilots when the eny will not let them fly the Delta. just makes their gunnery better with the 4 @ .50 package when they return to the 6 @.50 package. :devil
In the right hands the both 51's can be pretty slippery. I know that a well flown pair of 51's can keep a lot of people on their toes. and a flight of 6 to 8 ponies can clean a sector out pretty fast.
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it's a troll, a bad one at that.
ack-ack
ackack honestly... how in god's name am i trolling? so just because i say something to back up my statement of how good the P51 is and because i said your plane wasnt as good as you say it is, suddenly im your next target on the forums? im sorry but trolling is trying to incite and well guess what? youre inciting me to comment. give it a rest seriously...
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ackack honestly... how in god's name am i trolling?
Not you, you replied to a whats her name's bad troll.
ack-ack
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Single engine planes suck. Fly something with two engines! :neener:
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Single engine planes suck. Fly something with two engines! :neener:
B-25.
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Single engine planes suck. Fly something with two engines! :neener:
people need to fly twin engines fighter so they can get high tail out of trouble and out clime anybody......wimps. :D
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Oak, what do mossie or 110 pilots do then? :)
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Oak, what do mossie or 110 pilots do then? :)
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RUN!
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people need to fly twin engines fighter so they can get high tail out of trouble and out clime anybody......wimps. :D
There is no twin engined aircraft in AH that can climb away from the better climbing single engined aircraft.
Oak, what do mossie or 110 pilots do then? :)
Outfight the other guy(s), particularly if they are in the slug of a Bf110.
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Right, Karnak. I was making a point that the Mossie nor 110 excel at climbing. Both; however, are under-rated turners and are capable of TnBing with just about anything.
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Right, Karnak. I was making a point that the Mossie nor 110 excel at climbing. Both; however, are under-rated turners and are capable of TnBing with just about anything.
No, the Bf 110 nor the Mosquito are under-rated turning planes nor are they capable of angles (TnB) fighting just about anything.
ack-ack
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Well, depends. Mossie is definitely capable of TnBing the P-51. :p
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Not you, you replied to a whats her name's bad troll.
ack-ack
ahh. then apologies bud <S>
Well, depends. Mossie is definitely capable of TnBing the P-51. :p
:cry
But i seem to have easy times fighting other aircraft in 110s... :headscratch:
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Yes, they definately are capable.
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Definitely*
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Ok, I say we raise the D Ponys ENY to 5.000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000 1. Forget about the B Pony, I mean who flies that thing anyway.
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Copr, I have PROOF you fly the B pony. I have a great screenie of myself in a B pony, escorting you and your half-winged B pony :). Good times
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Doh...I thought I got rid of the evidence... :bolt:
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Not quite all of it. Did you finally log out of the lobby? I see you were in there for about 2 days. Passed out in the bathroom I assume.
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No, the Bf 110 nor the Mosquito are under-rated turning planes nor are they capable of angles (TnB) fighting just about anything.
ack-ack
You would think... I have surprised a great many people with the Mossie Mk.6 in an angles fight. Granted, it doesn't climb and accelerate as well as the P38, but can make up for it in its ability to turn. The plane is actually quite stable in a stall fight, and you can practically float with full flaps down. As long as one knows how to manage E, the Mossie will fair just fine in a low and slow fight. I've seen many a spit-driver dip his wing into the cartoon earth because he/she would try to match me in the stall fight.
Try flying a Mossie for a full tour in the MAs. I find her just as attractive as the Lightning. :)
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You would think... I have surprised a great many people with the Mossie Mk.6 in an angles fight. Granted, it doesn't climb and accelerate as well as the P38, but can make up for it in its ability to turn. The plane is actually quite stable in a stall fight, and you can practically float with full flaps down. As long as one knows how to manage E, the Mossie will fair just fine in a low and slow fight. I've seen many a spit-driver dip his wing into the cartoon earth because he/she would try to match me in the stall fight.
Try flying a Mossie for a full tour in the MAs. I find her just as attractive as the Lightning. :)
I'm sorry to say that but that does not lend any credence that the Mosquito an under-rated turning plane with the capability to turn with almost anything. All it shows is that you ran into a player that was vastly inferior to you and lost as a result, your typical case of the "it's the pilot, not the plane".
ack-ack
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I was fighting a K4 pilot in a mossie BOMBER, and got behind him, he has all the advantages, even firepower. As he has guns and I dont. I won in terms of ACM I got behind him level at 200.
He was not a 2 weeker either. Mossies are awesome, they can keep up with 38's :rock
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I'm sorry to say that but that does not lend any credence that the Mosquito an under-rated turning plane with the capability to turn with almost anything. All it shows is that you ran into a player that was vastly inferior to you and lost as a result, your typical case of the "it's the pilot, not the plane".
ack-ack
Agreed. What I was trying to get at, though, is that most people tend to underestimate it. That in turn gets them shot down. I see most Mk.6 Mossies being used as bomb trucks, heavily loaded on ord and fuel. They almost always die because people don't understand the plane. As a result, people give it less credit than it deserves. But you are right, it is not under-rated... rather, it is under estimated. :aok
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I'm sorry to say that but that does not lend any credence that the Mosquito an under-rated turning plane with the capability to turn with almost anything. All it shows is that you ran into a player that was vastly inferior to you and lost as a result, your typical case of the "it's the pilot, not the plane". ack-ack
An aircraft's turning capabilities do not magically increase when an experienced pilot takes off in it. The works are always there, making it a capable plane. Both factors are meshed together, but two different variables. your typical case of "I've never done it, so it can't happen". An inferior pilot isn't always to blame.
Having flown every plane in the set for a good amount of sorties, I can easily say the 110 and Mossie are some of the better fighters in game. Especially the 110C4b.
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only reason mossies and 110's get lots of kills is because they ho like crazy anything that moves. there's a couple of players that are pretty good at turning it, but they mostly run when in trouble. they will use the mossie/110 as a pony with basically unlimited ammo and hit and run. get it into a turning fite they will die easily. as for the angles thing, it is just another way to bnz do a 2 or 3 second burst (spray) then run.
semp
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The Mossie is a good offensive platform but a relatively poor defensive platform. When I use it I try my best to go offensive as early as possible, but the HO is reserved for situations in which I must get the numbers closer to even fast, or against Me262s or Me163s. One on one I do not go for an the HO.
Used in a BnZ fashion, the Mossie is very good if you use it aggressively to pound the victim's E out and kill them.
There are certain fighters which it will out turn, in my experience. The big ones in that category are the P-51s, P-47s and Fw190s. You can turn with a mediocre pilot in Typhoon, Tempest, La-7, late Bf109 or possibly an F4U or P-38 driver who doesn't know about the flaps.
Spitfires, C.20Xs, Hurricanes, Bf110s, F6Fs, mid and early Bf109s, F4Fs, I-16s, anything Japanese, Brewsters, Yaks and P-40s should never be turned with.
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Solar10 does some amazing things in a Mossie, he can float her, turn her and definitely make you more respectful of the Mossie.
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I agree with alot of your post karnak. I do disagree with some of the aircraft you say it can't turn aswell as, though. Typhoon, Yak, and C2s can be tempermental in a turnfight if not flown correctly, whereas the Mossie is more "user friendly" if you will. Agreed it is a great offensive platform. The gun package is great for the aggressive BnZ type fight you describe as well. It doesn't take much with the mossie, or 110 to knock some important parts off.
The Mossie is a good offensive platform but a relatively poor defensive platform. When I use it I try my best to go offensive as early as possible, but the HO is reserved for situations in which I must get the numbers closer to even fast, or against Me262s or Me163s. One on one I do not go for an the HO.
Used in a BnZ fashion, the Mossie is very good if you use it aggressively to pound the victim's E out and kill them.
There are certain fighters which it will out turn, in my experience. The big ones in that category are the P-51s, P-47s and Fw190s. You can turn with a mediocre pilot in Typhoon, Tempest, La-7, late Bf109 or possibly an F4U or P-38 driver who doesn't know about the flaps.
Spitfires, C.20Xs, Hurricanes, Bf110s, F6Fs, mid and early Bf109s, F4Fs, I-16s, anything Japanese, Brewsters, Yaks and P-40s should never be turned with.
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Spitfires, C.20Xs, Hurricanes, Bf110s, F6Fs, mid and early Bf109s, F4Fs, I-16s, anything Japanese, Brewsters, Yaks and P-40s should never be turned with.
Make the C.20X a 202 and it's spot on. The Mossie slaughters the 205 it in a turnfight.
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I have to disagree. A pilot well versed in ACMs can cut the corner on a better turning plane. A high or low yoyo is a good example of this. Now if we're talking about flat turning with a 202, A6M, or a Brewster...sure they'll win everytime. Knowing WHEN and HOW to turn against a better turning plane is key here I think. Knowing when to disengage BEFORE you lose the advantage and good gunnery skills are also a big factor.
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Well Said Uptown:)