Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: flight17 on November 15, 2010, 09:57:42 PM

Title: Nothing to see here, move along
Post by: flight17 on November 15, 2010, 09:57:42 PM
See Rule #14
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: kamori on November 15, 2010, 10:21:13 PM
in
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: guncrasher on November 15, 2010, 10:28:22 PM
Oh look a chain email IN our forum. :noid

Semp
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: Jayhawk on November 15, 2010, 10:42:38 PM
Do the organizers of this propose an alternative?  I couldn't find one.

I understand the concern over these machines, but I also understand the need for some level of security in the air industry.  I don't trust the TSA anymore and agree there should be change, but what?
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: 68ZooM on November 15, 2010, 10:47:54 PM
(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s35/68zoom/aMT_AceVentura.gif)




IN
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: Pigslilspaz on November 15, 2010, 11:48:24 PM
Brilliant idea. Almost feels like a certain group who won't be named would be behind this. However, Im gonna have to call IN on this.
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: BiPoLaR on November 15, 2010, 11:51:09 PM
ramen noodles gave me gas
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: Halo on November 16, 2010, 12:40:02 AM
Ain't freedom of speech wonderful? Got any better ideas for countering the latest terrorist threats? Just like Mad comic book's Spy vs. Spy, there always will be measures and countermeasures. I'd rather have my body parts x-rayed than blown to smithereens.  :noid
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: 68ZooM on November 16, 2010, 01:41:37 AM
(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s35/68zoom/70517096v10_225x225_Front_padToSquare-true.jpg)
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: Angus on November 16, 2010, 03:29:53 AM
Look at it this way. If those can get past the line that forms since you have no trouble with it, you will be sharing a plane with nudist colonists, strippers etc. Not bad at all.
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: 4deck on November 16, 2010, 05:58:28 AM
(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s35/68zoom/70517096v10_225x225_Front_padToSquare-true.jpg)

 :rofl :rofl :aok
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: CAP1 on November 16, 2010, 08:33:40 AM
so is that real?
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: Shuffler on November 16, 2010, 09:50:25 AM
If your going to fly... fly naked.  :D

Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: branch37 on November 16, 2010, 10:06:01 AM
See Rule #14
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: Dragon on November 16, 2010, 10:07:03 AM
Happy Birthday
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: greens on November 16, 2010, 10:47:14 AM
My wife recently traveled w AKAirlines, im pissed at em, well tsa anyway. butwipes felt her inappropiately. she felt violated. like she looks like them terds from 9-11. what bs. what deucebags, my 2 pennies.
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: CAP1 on November 16, 2010, 11:11:25 AM
My wife recently traveled w AKAirlines, im pissed at em, well tsa anyway. butwipes felt her inappropiately. she felt violated. like she looks like them terds from 9-11. what bs. what deucebags, my 2 pennies.

file a suit.

 i hate to say that, but that's what it's probably gonna take to stop this stuff.
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: VonMessa on November 16, 2010, 11:32:25 AM
file a suit.

 i hate to say that, but that's what it's probably gonna take to stop this stuff.

...and people say I'm crazy for building my own plane...
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: Vudak on November 16, 2010, 11:43:43 AM
file a suit.

 i hate to say that, but that's what it's probably gonna take to stop this stuff.

There's no shame in filing this kind of suit, but realize that half the country will hate you for it (the half that doesn't comprehend you're doing it for them).
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: CAP1 on November 16, 2010, 11:44:33 AM
...and people say I'm crazy for building my own plane...

you are being very closely watched...... :noid
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: Serenity on November 16, 2010, 11:54:33 AM
file a suit.

 i hate to say that, but that's what it's probably gonna take to stop this stuff.

agreed. Don't hesitate, if she felt violated, they did something wrong.
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: Ripsnort on November 16, 2010, 12:57:29 PM
This has inspired me to get that TSA application filled out sooner than I expected!

Wearing a wig and a couple oranges stuffed in a bra everyday is going to be a pain, but what the heck!  :devil
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: FLOTSOM on November 16, 2010, 01:00:47 PM
tell you what, you wanna gripe about the full body scan well here is what you do.

go find the children of any of the people who were on flight 93 on 9/11/01 and tell them to their faces that, you would happily let their parents die once again because your modesty and personal convenience is more important to you than the lives of the potentially thousands of others who could be killed by another hijacking. i am certain that they will completely agree with you and your pathetic suit that your gonna file against the TSA because you were made to feel momentarily uncomfortable.

now i am most certainly not the prime example of a great American "citizen", but at the end of the day i am an AMERICAN and the want to ensure the safety of my countrymen/women/CHILDREN far exceeds my modesty or want to avoid momentary and MINOR discomforts. i would rather be publically strip searched than to have to ever again look at this


(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/35/WTC_smoking_on_9-11.jpeg)


if your unhappy with the airport security in America you are more than welcome to move to a country that has less stringent standards..........

I hear Iran is pretty lax on airport security.
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: guncrasher on November 16, 2010, 01:55:55 PM
tell you what, you wanna gripe about the full body scan well here is what you do.

go find the children of any of the people who were on flight 93 on 9/11/01 and tell them to their faces that, you would happily let their parents die once again because your modesty and personal convenience is more important to you than the lives of the potentially thousands of others who could be killed by another hijacking. i am certain that they will completely agree with you and your pathetic suit that your gonna file against the TSA because you were made to feel momentarily uncomfortable.

now i am most certainly not the prime example of a great American "citizen", but at the end of the day i am an AMERICAN and the want to ensure the safety of my countrymen/women/CHILDREN far exceeds my modesty or want to avoid momentary and MINOR discomforts. i would rather be publically strip searched than to have to ever again look at this





if your unhappy with the airport security in America you are more than welcome to move to a country that has less stringent standards..........

I hear Iran is pretty lax on airport security.

two questions:

1. So instead we should tell the children of those people that died, that thousands of our women are being violated for them everyday?

2.  Why if there's a disagreement people are always quick to point out that you can move to another country?

semp
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: 007Rusty on November 16, 2010, 02:05:36 PM
                    (http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c135/007rusty/popcorn.gif)
(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c135/007rusty/squirrel.jpg)
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: Flipperk on November 16, 2010, 02:09:57 PM
tell you what, you wanna gripe about the full body scan well here is what you do.

go find the children of any of the people who were on flight 93 on 9/11/01 and tell them to their faces that, you would happily let their parents die once again because your modesty and personal convenience is more important to you than the lives of the potentially thousands of others who could be killed by another hijacking. i am certain that they will completely agree with you and your pathetic suit that your gonna file against the TSA because you were made to feel momentarily uncomfortable.

now i am most certainly not the prime example of a great American "citizen", but at the end of the day i am an AMERICAN and the want to ensure the safety of my countrymen/women/CHILDREN far exceeds my modesty or want to avoid momentary and MINOR discomforts. i would rather be publically strip searched than to have to ever again look at this


(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/35/WTC_smoking_on_9-11.jpeg)


if your unhappy with the airport security in America you are more than welcome to move to a country that has less stringent standards..........

I hear Iran is pretty lax on airport security.



By having a "Random" search of only a certaint few and not all...the TSA is failing to ensure the safety of the American people. To better ensure the safety of the american people EVERYONE must agree to go through a strip search or full body scan and NOT a select few. Who knows that American looking guy overthere might be carrying something. You should not be forced to go through a more personal and comperhensive search procedure that is NOT forced upon ALL travelers. That is by-the-book discrimination.

The TSA is on the path to fail again, as you can tell the past few "scares" were ON THE PLANE.





The bold qutoe above....You are just as welcome to move to another country as well. In case you forgot this country was founded upon the idea of standing up for what is right. Our forefathers put their lives and the colonies futures on the line by declaring war on their own country. They put their safety to the side and fought for what they KNEW was right. It was a sacrifice that paid off, now we are sacrificing the ideas this country was founded upon by letting our personal freedoms go to the government. We are failing our forefathers...shame
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: Shuffler on November 16, 2010, 02:10:41 PM
tell you what, you wanna gripe about the full body scan well here is what you do.

go find the children of any of the people who were on flight 93 on 9/11/01 and tell them to their faces that, you would happily let their parents die once again because your modesty and personal convenience is more important to you than the lives of the potentially thousands of others who could be killed by another hijacking. i am certain that they will completely agree with you and your pathetic suit that your gonna file against the TSA because you were made to feel momentarily uncomfortable.

now i am most certainly not the prime example of a great American "citizen", but at the end of the day i am an AMERICAN and the want to ensure the safety of my countrymen/women/CHILDREN far exceeds my modesty or want to avoid momentary and MINOR discomforts. i would rather be publically strip searched than to have to ever again look at this


(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/35/WTC_smoking_on_9-11.jpeg)


if your unhappy with the airport security in America you are more than welcome to move to a country that has less stringent standards..........

I hear Iran is pretty lax on airport security.

Do you think feeling up folks will fix that? The luggage is loaded along with packages of folks not even on the flight. Much of that is loaded in minutes. You want more???  How about some arab in a plane with a launcher. They can take down another aircraft. They can also collide with one.

The TSA is not a deterrent.

On the flip side they could have feel me up flights and freedom flights. That may be a solution.
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: Tec on November 16, 2010, 02:24:54 PM


 i would rather be publically strip searched than to have to ever again look at this


(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/35/WTC_smoking_on_9-11.jpeg)[/center
No thanks, I'll pass.  Using your line of logic we should all live in padded bomb shelters and have our daily protein pill provided to us by the government.

But hey, if you're not happy with the level of security in the United States you're always welcome to move to a more secure country...

I hear the UK is real big on security.
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: greens on November 16, 2010, 02:26:56 PM
So u think a in the 20s ESKIMO female wud have the wits to make a bomb or be willing to die for some dbag "allah" i dont believe in allah i believe in jesus our savior n his dad noone else. wud she be willing to do that i dont think so. wud a caucasian dude in dress clothes be willing to blow himself up"? dont think so. wud u be willing to do that Flotsom? i wudnt u wudnt. that why TSA needs to start racial profliling and zone in on certain races who are connected to these turds who violated our security forever. i aint saying i dont care about what happened to the people in the twin towers and their family dam ur stupid. Ive been a christian my whole life been going to church every sunday pray everyday. My life chnaqged that day too on 9-11. my wife felt violated cuz the beeotch touched her groin area!!!!. saying i dont care about the kids who lost parents is downright DUMB man. <S> flotsom grow a brain.
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: CAP1 on November 16, 2010, 02:28:40 PM
those that feel more secure from things like this are not necessarily bad......but they are being fooled, as this is nothing more than a false security.
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: Serenity on November 16, 2010, 02:30:13 PM
those that feel more secure from things like this are not necessarily bad......but they are being fooled, as this is nothing more than a false security.

QFT. Just dont impose that foolishness on the rest of us.
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: Nefarious on November 16, 2010, 02:30:32 PM
those that feel more secure from things like this are not necessarily bad......but they are being fooled, as this is nothing more than a false security.

Bingo.
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: Jayhawk on November 16, 2010, 02:31:42 PM
I'm going to softly moan as I get my pat down, let's make this uncomfortable for all involved.  :aok
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: shiv on November 16, 2010, 02:33:19 PM
Anybody else read this "Thanks GVing"?

Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: Tec on November 16, 2010, 02:34:10 PM
That's not much better there greens.  Many people die due to alcohol related automobile accidents every year, should the police in Alaska be allowed to stop all vehicles being driven by non whites and administer field sobriety testing?  Because obviously a white man would never drive drunk, especially whilst wearing a suit, but we all know those Eskimos can't hold their liquor.

/sarcasm

Did you know there are American citizens, white ones at that, fighting for our enemies abroad?
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: 68ZooM on November 16, 2010, 02:35:43 PM
two quotes come to mind..

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
Benjamin Franklin

Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: greens on November 16, 2010, 02:37:51 PM
That's not much better there greens.  Many people die due to alcohol related automobile accidents every year, should the police in Alaska be allowed to stop all vehicles being driven by non whites and administer field sobriety testing?  Because obviously a white man would never drive drunk, especially whilst wearing a suit, but we all know those Eskimos can't hold their liquor.

/sarcasm

Did you know there are American citizens, white ones at that, fighting for our enemies abroad?
2nd darndest thing i witness today. btw we shud meet up sumday. we'll see how manly u r. btw not a natives r alcoholics drunks etc. im heading to anchorage, ak via alaska airlines on december 14th ur invited there. lets meet up ill give u a taste of eskimo
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: 68ZooM on November 16, 2010, 02:41:18 PM
lol cant resist

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s35/68zoom/dm5klg.gif)
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: Flipperk on November 16, 2010, 02:48:43 PM
lol cant resist

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s35/68zoom/dm5klg.gif)





 :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: Flipperk on November 16, 2010, 02:49:27 PM
2nd darndest thing i witness today. btw we shud meet up sumday. we'll see how manly u r. btw not a natives r alcoholics drunks etc. im heading to anchorage, ak via alaska airlines on december 14th ur invited there. lets meet up ill give u a taste of eskimo


Ill take some Crab meat on the side...thanks!  :D
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: Tec on November 16, 2010, 02:50:07 PM
2nd darndest thing i witness today. btw we shud meet up sumday. we'll see how manly u r. btw not a natives r alcoholics drunks etc. im heading to anchorage, ak via alaska airlines on december 14th ur invited there. lets meet up ill give u a taste of eskimo

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Not only did my exercise in sarcasm as an attempt to point out your horribly flawed logic go right over your head, but you in turn swung your E-peen at me in a challenge of real life fisticuffs!  In the immortal words of Lisa Simpson "You sir are a buffoon".
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: FLOTSOM on November 16, 2010, 03:00:07 PM
OK to answer all three of you at once, if you walk through the machine then nobody gets felt up do they?

secondly its a same sex search, your not going to have men feeling up women in a pat search, it will be women. that is currently the law for all forms of body search and i don't see it changing now.

our women being violated????????????????????? violated????? really???? are they being penetrated???? are they being forced to stand in front of a bunch of people ogling them and touching themselves in inappropriate fashions? oh my god how pathetic and self righteous can a woman be???? she gets searched like everyone else. we live in a nation of pathetically lazy and self righteous people, but they also have a right to be kept as safe as possible.

those of you that believe that luggage goes unscanned really need to do your home work before you speak. nothing gets loaded that isn't cleared, and because its luggage not living it gets scanned much more efficiently. here try starting here http://host.madison.com/wsj/business/article_8472baae-ef5b-11df-9cac-001cc4c03286.html (http://host.madison.com/wsj/business/article_8472baae-ef5b-11df-9cac-001cc4c03286.html) just because it can be fast doesn't mean its not effective.

greens before you talk about what a white man would or wouldn't do in the name of god read your christian history. we are not innocent of our atrocities or our fanatics. do you know that many many whites are muslems? racial profiling doesnt work, safety measures to prevent acts of violence help but even those are inevitably defeatable. so they must change with the times.

so tec because i want my family not to die by the hands of a fanatic when it is easily preventable then that means i am a paranoid who wants to live in a bomb shelter? you take reasonable preventative measures to extreme retarded thought and arguments. i have historical support for my paranoia, your argument has nothing behind it but the bodies of those who have died because of people who win arguments the way you just presented your case. i suppose you think its outrageous that states are adopting laws that require children to wear protective head gear when riding their bikes skateboards ect. i further suppose that you think it is completely unreasonable that people shouldn't be allowed to drink and drive, hey they know when they have had enough......right?

there is a difference between reasonable safety and fanatical paranoia. don't confuse what i am saying to be anything more than what it is, reasonable measures to ensure the safety of others.
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: VonMessa on November 16, 2010, 03:04:04 PM
tell you what, you wanna gripe about the full body scan well here is what you do.

go find the children of any of the people who were on flight 93 on 9/11/01 and tell them to their faces that, you would happily let their parents die once again because your modesty and personal convenience is more important to you than the lives of the potentially thousands of others who could be killed by another hijacking. i am certain that they will completely agree with you and your pathetic suit that your gonna file against the TSA because you were made to feel momentarily uncomfortable.

now i am most certainly not the prime example of a great American "citizen", but at the end of the day i am an AMERICAN and the want to ensure the safety of my countrymen/women/CHILDREN far exceeds my modesty or want to avoid momentary and MINOR discomforts. i would rather be publically strip searched than to have to ever again look at this


(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/35/WTC_smoking_on_9-11.jpeg)


if your unhappy with the airport security in America you are more than welcome to move to a country that has less stringent standards..........

I hear Iran is pretty lax on airport security.

You are really reaching here, bro.

Airport security did not cause that.

Mandatory self-defense training for commercial pilots would have fixed that.

Box cutters....   really?  You get one chance only at that idea, Chuckles.

Those that are willing to trade freedom for security deserve neither.
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: CAP1 on November 16, 2010, 03:13:33 PM
OK to answer all three of you at once, if you walk through the machine then nobody gets felt up do they?

secondly its a same sex search, your not going to have men feeling up women in a pat search, it will be women. that is currently the law for all forms of body search and i don't see it changing now.

our women being violated????????????????????? violated????? really???? are they being penetrated???? are they being forced to stand in front of a bunch of people ogling them and touching themselves in inappropriate fashions? oh my god how pathetic and self righteous can a woman be???? she gets searched like everyone else. we live in a nation of pathetically lazy and self righteous people, but they also have a right to be kept as safe as possible.

those of you that believe that luggage goes unscanned really need to do your home work before you speak. nothing gets loaded that isn't cleared, and because its luggage not living it gets scanned much more efficiently. here try starting here http://host.madison.com/wsj/business/article_8472baae-ef5b-11df-9cac-001cc4c03286.html (http://host.madison.com/wsj/business/article_8472baae-ef5b-11df-9cac-001cc4c03286.html) just because it can be fast doesn't mean its not effective.

greens before you talk about what a white man would or wouldn't do in the name of god read your christian history. we are not innocent of our atrocities or our fanatics. do you know that many many whites are muslems? racial profiling doesnt work, safety measures to prevent acts of violence help but even those are inevitably defeatable. so they must change with the times.

so tec because i want my family not to die by the hands of a fanatic when it is easily preventable then that means i am a paranoid who wants to live in a bomb shelter? you take reasonable preventative measures to extreme retarded thought and arguments. i have historical support for my paranoia, your argument has nothing behind it but the bodies of those who have died because of people who win arguments the way you just presented your case. i suppose you think its outrageous that states are adopting laws that require children to wear protective head gear when riding their bikes skateboards ect. i further suppose that you think it is completely unreasonable that people shouldn't be allowed to drink and drive, hey they know when they have had enough......right?

there is a difference between reasonable safety and fanatical paranoia. don't confuse what i am saying to be anything more than what it is, reasonable measures to ensure the safety of others.

uumm....i don't want a dood touching my stuff if ya know what i mean....and i don't really want my nuts x-rayed either.
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: FLOTSOM on November 16, 2010, 03:15:14 PM
Those that are willing to trade freedom for security deserve neither.

ok all of you guys who use this line got a question for you.....

do you lock your house doors and/or windows?

do you lock your car doors?

do you secure in any fashion anything that you deam being of value?

well then you trade ease and convienance for security.

any act of security required some type of sacrifice. or should we disband our entire military and lay off every member of law enforcement? hell those are just security measures arent they? and dont they occassionally fail to catch the bad guy before he does something horrible?

your arguments hold no logic, they are tough words that are hollow when viewed under the light of reality.

as for the rest of your statement Von, how did airport and many other branches of security not fail there?

self defense is by its definition self security by the way.

Cap........you want it and you know it  :neener:  :rofl
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: Tec on November 16, 2010, 03:20:41 PM


so tec because i want my family not to die by the hands of a fanatic when it is easily preventable then that means i am a paranoid who wants to live in a bomb shelter? you take reasonable preventative measures to extreme retarded thought and arguments. i have historical support for my paranoia, your argument has nothing behind it but the bodies of those who have died because of people who win arguments the way you just presented your case. i suppose you think its outrageous that states are adopting laws that require children to wear protective head gear when riding their bikes skateboards ect. i further suppose that you think it is completely unreasonable that people shouldn't be allowed to drink and drive, hey they know when they have had enough......right?

there is a difference between reasonable safety and fanatical paranoia. don't confuse what i am saying to be anything more than what it is, reasonable measures to ensure the safety of others.

Who is to decide what's reasonable and what's not?  You just admitted you would be all for public strip searches in the name of safety.  So why not just toss out the 4th amendment?  I mean if it's in the name of safety it's all good right?  Why not give the police the power to just enter any home and check for contraband, or wiretap whomever they please?  It's not that I give a rats bellybutton about some stupid scanner at an airport, what I care about is people who willingly give up their rights/freedoms.  Keep playing the bleeding heart card, I'm sure it works on plenty of people.  You want to carry on about all the people who have died because of our freedoms, what about the vastly larger number that have died to provide us with them?



Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: CAP1 on November 16, 2010, 03:27:23 PM
ok all of you guys who use this line got a question for you.....

do you lock your house doors and/or windows?

do you lock your car doors?

do you secure in any fashion anything that you deam being of value?

well then you trade ease and convienance for security.

any act of security required some type of sacrifice. or should we disband our entire military and lay off every member of law enforcement? hell those are just security measures arent they? and dont they occassionally fail to catch the bad guy before he does something horrible?

your arguments hold no logic, they are tough words that are hollow when viewed under the light of reality.

as for the rest of your statement Von, how did airport and many other branches of security not fail there?

self defense is by its definition self security by the way.

Cap........you want it and you know it  :neener:  :rofl

well.......if he looks good in heels and a mini skirt maaaayyyyybe....... :noid :noid :noid

in all seriousness, i'll find out in jan. flying to florida for neices birthday. i don't want to have to do either, as i truly do believe it to be an overzealous effort in futility......i will try to find a way to make it entertaining though......

 maybe i'll get a friend that does special effects makeup to make a couple of seeping wounds that will make em not wanna touch me..... :devil

 or i'll just fart like there's no tomorrow. farts are always funny.  :rofl
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: 68ZooM on November 16, 2010, 03:38:06 PM
ok all of you guys who use this line got a question for you.....

do you lock your house doors and/or windows?    during the day when I'm home nope , only when its bedtime, is locking it going to really stop someone that wants in? if they want to bust in when I'm home great I'll call the cops and tell them to bring body bags

do you lock your car doors?   nope,  no need to great town i live in

do you secure in any fashion anything that you deam being of value?  like my above posts, My insurance takes care of any losses to my home or truck

well then you trade ease and convienance for security.

any act of security required some type of sacrifice. or should we disband our entire military and lay off every member of law enforcement? hell those are just security measures arent they? and dont they occassionally fail to catch the bad guy before he does something horrible?  this is just off the wall and makes no sense

you may be so willing to give up your freedoms over feeling "safe" but I'm not.. to many people fought and died to give us what we have and it's NOT to be thrown away lightly.... whats next shall we strip search drivers and search there cars because they could be carrying something dangerous?  where does the paranoia end
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: CAP1 on November 16, 2010, 03:39:34 PM
you all realize that if this goes off without a hitch, and people accept it, it will be a year or less before this kind of stuff moves to bus and train stations?
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: VonMessa on November 16, 2010, 03:43:43 PM
ok all of you guys who use this line got a question for you.....

do you lock your house doors and/or windows?  No, I have a Schutzhund trained German Shepherd.  If he isn't enough of a deterrent, keep reading  

do you lock your car doors?  No again, I own a soft top Wrangler so I feel it's a bit pointless don't you think?  I'd rather anyone looking to steal from my Jeep just open the door and look around rather than cutting my top

do you secure in any fashion anything that you deam being of value?  In a manner of speaking, I suppose.  I own firearms

well then you trade ease and convienance for security.  Evidently, not

any act of security required some type of sacrifice. or should we disband our entire military and lay off every member of law enforcement? hell those are just security measures arent they? and dont they occassionally fail to catch the bad guy before he does something horrible?   No system is perfect but regulating the ever-loving piss out of each and every aspect of society will not fix things, either.

your arguments hold no logic, they are tough words that are hollow when viewed under the light of reality.  The only logic needed when my, or my family's personal safety is at stake is as follows: aiming center mass, breathe, relax, aim and squeeze

as for the rest of your statement Von, how did airport and many other branches of security not fail there?  They were box cutters, bro.  Not traditional weapons.  Neither are ball-point pens, but I'm sure I'll live to see the day that they are banned on flights, as well

self defense is by its definition self security by the way.  Yet it does not require any sacrifice of freedom to learn how to defend one's self

Cap........you want it and you know it  :neener:  :rofl

I'm not adverse to security, as long as personal rights are not sacrificed in the process.

You just want to touch my junk, dontcha?
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: dkff49 on November 16, 2010, 03:52:01 PM
I really have no problem with the scans since I looked at the images that are generated. They are not very clear at all and in my opinion are much less invasive than a pat down is. With this in mind I feel that is very reasonable requirement for air travel and as far as I am concerned is no infringement on rights.

As far as I know there is no right to air travel. If you don't like the requirements there are several other ways to get where you are going that require none of these security measures.
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: CAP1 on November 16, 2010, 03:59:50 PM
I really have no problem with the scans since I looked at the images that are generated. They are not very clear at all and in my opinion are much less invasive than a pat down is. With this in mind I feel that is very reasonable requirement for air travel and as far as I am concerned is no infringement on rights.

As far as I know there is no right to air travel. If you don't like the requirements there are several other ways to get where you are going that require none of these security measures.

it is a right to move freely, free of unreasonable search and/or seizure.

 and do you really want your nuts x-rayed?

 do you not think there is a reason that the dentist tosses a lead blanket over them when they x-ray your mouth? or a reason they leave the room.>?
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: greens on November 16, 2010, 04:01:29 PM
OK Tec is Obama n flotsom is vice pres  :aok they right we not.
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: 68ZooM on November 16, 2010, 04:05:05 PM
or i'll just fart like there's no tomorrow. farts are always funny.  :rofl

Yea save that one for the Cavity search    :rofl   :rofl   :rofl
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: FLOTSOM on November 16, 2010, 04:10:13 PM
Who is to decide what's reasonable and what's not?  You just admitted you would be all for public strip searches in the name of safety.  So why not just toss out the 4th amendment?  I mean if it's in the name of safety it's all good right?  Why not give the police the power to just enter any home and check for contraband, or wiretap whomever they please?  It's not that I give a rats bellybutton about some stupid scanner at an airport, what I care about is people who willingly give up their rights/freedoms.  Keep playing the bleeding heart card, I'm sure it works on plenty of people.  You want to carry on about all the people who have died because of our freedoms, what about the vastly larger number that have died to provide us with them?





my statement was "I" would, that was a reference to personal sacrifice of modesty, not to what others should take as being acceptable. and yet again you go to the edge of what the police would be entitled to do in the name of safety and security. answer me this Tec, who was the last person close to you that died needlessly because of the preventable actions of another? were you there when it happened? did their blood stain you clothes?

if it came down to a trade i would tell you this, you can keep your anarchy just give me back the woman i lost to a drunk driver when i was a teen, give me back the friend i was standing next to when he was shot by another kid, give me back.........well there are actually to many to list and my sorrows are not this boards business, so just give me back even one of the lives i have seen snuffed out or permanently damaged due to the preventable actions of another and i will fight for your anarchy.

till you can do that, live your delusion that you are losing something because others want to be safe, but let them have their blanket.

Zoom lucky you if your life is generally that safe. I'm honestly happy for your peace of mind.

Von a box cutter is sharper than most standard knives. if they had not been allowed on the planes then maybe things would have gone differently that day. counting on a dog and/or personal fire arms to defend yourself is as silly as believing that these machines will stop all would be terrorist. the fact that you have them allows you to "feel" secure and they do serve as a deterant to most others who may consider doing you harm, if someone works at it hard enough they will find a way around those things, but the harder you make it the longer it will take them and most will give up before they get very far. that is the same as these machines, they can be defeated, but most will stop before they try. they either do not have the mental faculties or the physical means to defeat the security so they will look for an easier target instead.
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: CAP1 on November 16, 2010, 04:23:09 PM
my statement was "I" would, that was a reference to personal sacrifice of modesty, not to what others should take as being acceptable. and yet again you go to the edge of what the police would be entitled to do in the name of safety and security. answer me this Tec, who was the last person close to you that died needlessly because of the preventable actions of another? were you there when it happened? did their blood stain you clothes?

if it came down to a trade i would tell you this, you can keep your anarchy just give me back the woman i lost to a drunk driver when i was a teen, give me back the friend i was standing next to when he was shot by another kid, give me back.........well there are actually to many to list and my sorrows are not this boards business, so just give me back even one of the lives i have seen snuffed out or permanently damaged due to the preventable actions of another and i will fight for your anarchy.

till you can do that, live your delusion that you are losing something because others want to be safe, but let them have their blanket.

Zoom lucky you if your life is generally that safe. I'm honestly happy for your peace of mind.

Von a box cutter is sharper than most standard knives. if they had not been allowed on the planes then maybe things would have gone differently that day. counting on a dog and/or personal fire arms to defend yourself is as silly as believing that these machines will stop all would be terrorist. the fact that you have them allows you to "feel" secure and they do serve as a deterant to most others who may consider doing you harm, if someone works at it hard enough they will find a way around those things, but the harder you make it the longer it will take them and most will give up before they get very far. that is the same as these machines, they can be defeated, but most will stop before they try. they either do not have the mental faculties or the physical means to defeat the security so they will look for an easier target instead.

bolded....that is the problem.
this is a false sense of security.

 i think i had read or hear somewhere, that these scanners wouldn't have detected the stuff that the dood that lit his underwear had? i'm not sure on that though.

 i would imagine it wouldn't be too hard though, to hide things in the seams of clothing, which wouldn't show up on these things.......

 i'm really not trying to be disagreeable with ya, just trying to point out other things....

 take for instance.

 my shop is in cherry hill nj. when aircraft are lining up for final at philly, they're only at about 3k to 4k. the class b comes down to 1.5k here. they're not moving fast at all.
 how do we protect them from the possibility of a rocket attack?(which some said took flight 800 down i think). or even closer when they fly over gloucester city, or camden....they're below 2k at that point i think. probably in range of a good rifle(altrhough i'm not sure). do we screen everyone that lives underneath their flight path? do we lock down everything during busy times?
 this has to stop. as soon as we started going nuts with the extra security(which i fully believe is very well intentioned), we lost, and they won.

 
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: allaire on November 16, 2010, 04:28:30 PM
Has anyone worn a dosimeter when they have gone through one of these things?
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: 4deck on November 16, 2010, 04:34:36 PM
What we need is Lemurs watching you

(http://www.hilariousgifs.com/gifs/ceiling-lemur-watching-you-motivational-poster.gif)

Cause seriously folks, Im gonna break out the other lemur now

(http://www.fileden.com/files/2009/11/6/2640314/download.jpg)
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: CAP1 on November 16, 2010, 04:41:48 PM
What we need is Lemurs watching you

(http://www.hilariousgifs.com/gifs/ceiling-lemur-watching-you-motivational-poster.gif)

THAT IS SPOOKY.  :bolt: :bolt:
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: Penguin on November 16, 2010, 04:44:27 PM
tell you what, you wanna gripe about the full body scan well here is what you do.

go find the children of any of the people who were on flight 93 on 9/11/01 and tell them to their faces that, you would happily let their parents die once again because your modesty and personal convenience is more important to you than the lives of the potentially thousands of others who could be killed by another hijacking. i am certain that they will completely agree with you and your pathetic suit that your gonna file against the TSA because you were made to feel momentarily uncomfortable.

now i am most certainly not the prime example of a great American "citizen", but at the end of the day i am an AMERICAN and the want to ensure the safety of my countrymen/women/CHILDREN far exceeds my modesty or want to avoid momentary and MINOR discomforts. i would rather be publically strip searched than to have to ever again look at this


(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/35/WTC_smoking_on_9-11.jpeg)


if your unhappy with the airport security in America you are more than welcome to move to a country that has less stringent standards..........

I hear Iran is pretty lax on airport security.

Sure, sure, save the children, but where does it all end?

-Penguin
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: Masherbrum on November 16, 2010, 04:44:46 PM
Chain letters = FAIL
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: allaire on November 16, 2010, 04:55:48 PM
Bold fail
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: dkff49 on November 16, 2010, 04:56:52 PM
it is a right to move freely, free of unreasonable search and/or seizure.

 and do you really want your nuts x-rayed?

 do you not think there is a reason that the dentist tosses a lead blanket over them when they x-ray your mouth? or a reason they leave the room.>?

It is and you can drive, take a train, walk they may take longer but are all other methods of traveling. These things are being done with to increase the safety of air travel.

IMHO this is no different than giving out certain information as meeting requirements to get a driver's license. If you don't want to meet them then you don't drive it is your choice. Air travel is not a guaranteed right or a requirement to be a US citizen.

I personally don't choose flying as my first option for travel due to the cost and how much of a pain it is to get through security, I don't think it is worth my trouble and time. I would have to be pressed for time in order for me to fly any where. Back when I used to travel for work you could arrive inside the airport 5 minutes prior to your flight leaving and still make the flight, then it was worth flying. I understand the increases in security but find it not worth my trouble any longer but these new requirements would not stop me.

There was just recently a big questions about rights being infringed on at my employer recently and in the meeting that followed it was expressed and pointed out that there have been several law suits filed and lost due to the fact that the measure being taken was placed there for the safety of the masses. The question was them making it a requirement for all employees of the hospital getting flu shot. Though they did not have to, they gave us a way out but they made it such a pain that almost everyone showed up for the shot.

BTW in answer to your last questions. I understand the dangers involved with x-rays and again your choice to fly, if it is that important to you take the train, bus, or auto.
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: CAP1 on November 16, 2010, 05:03:44 PM
It is and you can drive, take a train, walk they may take longer but are all other methods of traveling. These things are being done with to increase the safety of air travel.

IMHO this is no different than giving out certain information as meeting requirements to get a driver's license. If you don't want to meet them then you don't drive it is your choice. Air travel is not a guaranteed right or a requirement to be a US citizen.

I personally don't choose flying as my first option for travel due to the cost and how much of a pain it is to get through security, I don't think it is worth my trouble and time. I would have to be pressed for time in order for me to fly any where. Back when I used to travel for work you could arrive inside the airport 5 minutes prior to your flight leaving and still make the flight, then it was worth flying. I understand the increases in security but find it not worth my trouble any longer but these new requirements would not stop me.

There was just recently a big questions about rights being infringed on at my employer recently and in the meeting that followed it was expressed and pointed out that there have been several law suits filed and lost due to the fact that the measure being taken was placed there for the safety of the masses. The question was them making it a requirement for all employees of the hospital getting flu shot. Though they did not have to, they gave us a way out but they made it such a pain that almost everyone showed up for the shot.

BTW in answer to your last questions. I understand the dangers involved with x-rays and again your choice to fly, if it is that important to you take the train, bus, or auto.

some of us can't take an entire week off to drive.

 i am being restricted from moving freely, as my ability to reasonably fly is being restricted.

 and finally, do you think this will stop here?
 how long till they start this at bus stations?
 how long till they start this at train stations?
 how long till they have security checkpoints at toll booths on the toll roads? and then the non-toll roads?

 i mean...if it's for safety, they it must be ok, right?
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: warhed on November 16, 2010, 05:18:31 PM
ff
Has anyone worn a dosimeter when they have gone through one of these things?

If it's anything like a regular X-ray machine, it would be an acute dose at a lower end level.  Not even anywhere near the league of a dose that would have an adverse effect.

I've "accidentally" sat on a steam pipe putting out over 2-5 REM/hour.  Was on it for a few good minutes before I noticed my electronic dosemeter alarming (thought I heard something! lol).  If that doesn't make you sterile, these things ain't got a chance  :D
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: allaire on November 16, 2010, 05:21:15 PM
I've "accidentally" sat on a steam pipe putting out over 2-5 REM/hour.

2-5 rem/hour? What in the world do you do?
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: dkff49 on November 16, 2010, 05:22:12 PM
some of us can't take an entire week off to drive.

 i am being restricted from moving freely, as my ability to reasonably fly is being restricted.

 and finally, do you think this will stop here?
 how long till they start this at bus stations?
 how long till they start this at train stations?
 how long till they have security checkpoints at toll booths on the toll roads? and then the non-toll roads?

 i mean...if it's for safety, they it must be ok, right?

While I realize that everyone can't do that as easily as others that is still a choice of yours to make. I looked through the Bill of Rights as well and found nothing in there that says that there is right to travel freely. Just saying.

I guess when it becomes a safety concern for these forms of travel then I suspect I will feel much the same as I do now. My personal reservations should not impede others from a safe existence. Like I said earlier though I don't understand the big issue here these are not exactly detailed pictures. http://www.tsa.gov/approach/tech/ait/how_it_works.shtm (http://www.tsa.gov/approach/tech/ait/how_it_works.shtm)

But hey your opinion is as good as mine.
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: warhed on November 16, 2010, 05:27:30 PM
2-5 rem/hour? What in the would do you do?

Refuel outage at a nuclear plant back in 2005.
Foreign Material Exclusion mission in the Drywell building, which is the surrounding "can" that encircles the reactor.  

Radiation Protection department had hung some warning signs on a pipe about 20ft in the air.  When I asked them about it, they mistook what pipe I was referring to, telling me "you won't alarm."

Now that I think about, these TSA scanners don't even see your bones, which means they are drastically lower than a standard X-ray machine.
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: flight17 on November 16, 2010, 05:30:22 PM
BTW in answer to your last questions. I understand the dangers involved with x-rays and again your choice to fly, if it is that important to you take the train, bus, or auto.
what about pilots who have to submit to them at least once a day if not more? they have to go through them too and more frequently than any passenger would

 Multiple health institutions have all done studies with these new machines and all have come to the same conclusion that they produce more radiation than any previous machine which can affect your health over repeated use.
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: warhed on November 16, 2010, 05:30:41 PM
2-5 rem/hour? What in the would do you do?

Quick warhed tidbit, one time I asked my boss (during my first ever gig in a nuke plant), "Why is that called the Death Room?"
He replied, "If you go inside, you die."
They had some pretty big locks on that for people like me, thankfully  :lol
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: warhed on November 16, 2010, 05:34:15 PM
what about pilots who have to submit to them at least once a day if not more? they have to go through them too and more frequently than any passenger would

 Multiple health institutions have all done studies with these new machines and all have come to the same conclusion that they produce more radiation than any previous machine which can affect your health over repeated use.

I looked, but could not find the actual millirem these things put out.  Do you have any details?  If it was high, then I would be concerned about multiple scans.  I haven't seen a number yet though.
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: 68ZooM on November 16, 2010, 05:38:32 PM
heres a interesting read, over 35,000 pics were saved from the Florida courthouse, TSA has said over and over again that body imagers used for security purposes are unable to store, export or print images of passenger but yet 10's of thousands have been saved and leaked, so much for those rules, why would you want to keep them? and for what purpose but we feel safer dont we

http://news.discovery.com/tech/one-hundred-body-scan-images-published.html (http://news.discovery.com/tech/one-hundred-body-scan-images-published.html)

Article two
http://news.discovery.com/tech/feds-accidentally-save-body-scan-images-ooops.html (http://news.discovery.com/tech/feds-accidentally-save-body-scan-images-ooops.html)
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: FLOTSOM on November 16, 2010, 05:40:37 PM
in the video it equals the rad does to 2 minutes of flying. now most flights are an hour or more so which do you think the pilot or even the passengers have more to worry about, the scan or the actual flight?
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: dkff49 on November 16, 2010, 05:43:39 PM
what about pilots who have to submit to them at least once a day if not more? they have to go through them too and more frequently than any passenger would

 Multiple health institutions have all done studies with these new machines and all have come to the same conclusion that they produce more radiation than any previous machine which can affect your health over repeated use.

Do the flight staff need to enter through these security check points? I personally have never seen them go through one and just assumed that there was a separate entrance and/or simply walked around the detectors at the entrance to the gates.

If this indeed an issue for pilots it would not take much for them to get it changed as OSHA would be more than willing to point out the obvious danger to employees considering they love nothing more than to point out flaws in work practices.
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: CAP1 on November 16, 2010, 05:43:48 PM
While I realize that everyone can't do that as easily as others that is still a choice of yours to make. I looked through the Bill of Rights as well and found nothing in there that says that there is right to travel freely. Just saying.

I guess when it becomes a safety concern for these forms of travel then I suspect I will feel much the same as I do now. My personal reservations should not impede others from a safe existence. Like I said earlier though I don't understand the big issue here these are not exactly detailed pictures. http://www.tsa.gov/approach/tech/ait/how_it_works.shtm (http://www.tsa.gov/approach/tech/ait/how_it_works.shtm)

But hey your opinion is as good as mine.

but you see my point too, right? that this is just another step? and that we've already lost?
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: warhed on November 16, 2010, 05:49:08 PM
in the video it equals the rad does to 2 minutes of flying. now most flights are an hour or more so which do you think the pilot or even the passengers have more to worry about, the scan or the actual flight?

Flying at 35,000 actually does expose you to a significant dose of radiation.  As does tanning, both in the sun and in tanning machines.
Smaller but long term doses include, sitting infront of a tv, being at a computer, eating bananas (no joke), having granite countertops, smoking, or standing next to me (especially when I get cobalt-60 particles stuck in my skin).
The case for these scanners being unhealthy just isn't a viable threat.
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: dkff49 on November 16, 2010, 05:52:28 PM
I see that the more they try to make things safe they are going to look deeper into things that sometimes we don't want to be seen but sometimes it is necessary.

If they just suddenly threw this in with no justification for it at all, believe me I would be right there with you but there have been issues where this may have been a help and given the way things have been going lately, I think it is a good idea.

If something happened where someone snuck something through that this thing would have caught then all that you will hear about is how the technology existed and not used. Where will the finger point then?
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: allaire on November 16, 2010, 05:53:02 PM
A medical x-ray penetrates the body giving a distributed dose.  The x-ray back scatter is concentrated on the skin.  Some people worry about increasing skin cancer risks.  The millimeter wave has unknown long term effects.  Draw your own conclusions on this http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/arxiv/24331/ (http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/arxiv/24331/).

in the video it equals the rad does to 2 minutes of flying. now most flights are an hour or more so which do you think the pilot or even the passengers have more to worry about, the scan or the actual flight?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1290527/Airport-body-scanners-deliver-radiation-dose-20-times-higher-thought.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1290527/Airport-body-scanners-deliver-radiation-dose-20-times-higher-thought.html)
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: warhed on November 16, 2010, 05:56:51 PM
Do the flight staff need to enter through these security check points? I personally have never seen them go through one and just assumed that there was a separate entrance and/or simply walked around the detectors at the entrance to the gates.

If this indeed an issue for pilots it would not take much for them to get it changed as OSHA would be more than willing to point out the obvious danger to employees considering they love nothing more than to point out flaws in work practices.

The NRC allows radiation workers 5 REM a year, the industry allows 2 a year.  It takes an acute  dose one time of around 20 REM/hour to start causing any problems, of which are only temporary.
These machines are just not going to hurt anyone (minus some feelings).
Even with repeated scans, you need high acute doses (like an X-ray machine) to cause damage.  Lower doses repeated year round as with a pilot, will not only not hurt them, it may actually reduce the risk of cancer.
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: CAP1 on November 16, 2010, 05:57:16 PM
I see that the more they try to make things safe they are going to look deeper into things that sometimes we don't want to be seen but sometimes it is necessary.

If they just suddenly threw this in with no justification for it at all, believe me I would be right there with you but there have been issues where this may have been a help and given the way things have been going lately, I think it is a good idea.

If something happened where someone snuck something through that this thing would have caught then all that you will hear about is how the technology existed and not used. Where will the finger point then?

someone will stil sneak something on, should they so desire.
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: dkff49 on November 16, 2010, 06:01:36 PM
someone will stil sneak something on, should they so desire.

Yes but this device may still reduce the numbers that get through and again I can guarantee you that if something would happen that they would be all over these guys for not using the technology since it does exist.

There is no cure all but as attempts change so must the ways we use to stop them as someone said earlier.
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: warhed on November 16, 2010, 06:02:06 PM
A medical x-ray penetrates the body giving a distributed dose.  The x-ray back scatter is concentrated on the skin.  Some people worry about increasing skin cancer risks.  The millimeter wave has unknown long term effects.  Draw your own conclusions on this http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/arxiv/24331/ (http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/arxiv/24331/).
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1290527/Airport-body-scanners-deliver-radiation-dose-20-times-higher-thought.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1290527/Airport-body-scanners-deliver-radiation-dose-20-times-higher-thought.html)

I believe X-ray machines will give you a 200-500 millirem dose.  
If I were to receive an acute dose of that level at the nuclear  plant, the NRC would likely go on a firing spree.  
The first article you linked gives absolutely no details or numbers, it simply says possible threat.  
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: warhed on November 16, 2010, 06:04:24 PM
I would much rather my skin deflect the radiation in these machines than X-rays travel through my skin AND organs.
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: allaire on November 16, 2010, 06:06:51 PM
All it would take to get anything past security and onto a plane is the same way prisoners have been doing it for the longest time.

The first article isn't about radiation exposure it's about the possibility of terahertz millimeter waves unzipping sections of DNA strands.  The second article states that the exposure may be higher than generally known.
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: warhed on November 16, 2010, 06:22:23 PM
All it would take to get anything past security and onto a plane is the same way prisoners have been doing it for the longest time.

The first article isn't about radiation exposure it's about the possibility of terahertz millimeter waves unzipping sections of DNA strands.  The second article states that the exposure may be higher than generally known.

So what is the dose "generally known?" 
Bananas (containing potassium) also give out doses higher than "generally known."
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: allaire on November 16, 2010, 06:34:46 PM
Bluntly the dose was under-reported and disinformation was given out to lead people into thinking the dose was lower.  Does that make it any better or worse? Not really. 

The article was linked in response to:
in the video it equals the rad does to 2 minutes of flying. now most flights are an hour or more so which do you think the pilot or even the passengers have more to worry about, the scan or the actual flight?
Showing that the 2 minute dose that one receives from flying at altitude is possibly misleading.
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: FLOTSOM on November 16, 2010, 06:37:18 PM
Bluntly the dose was under-reported and disinformation was given out to lead people into thinking the dose was lower.  Does that make it any better or worse? Not really. 

The article was linked in response to:  Showing that the 2 minute dose that one receives from flying at altitude is possibly misleading.

i will conceed to the unknown for now. Agreed
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: warhed on November 16, 2010, 06:42:17 PM
Bluntly the dose was under-reported and disinformation was given out to lead people into thinking the dose was lower.  Does that make it any better or worse? Not really. 

The article was linked in response to:  Showing that the 2 minute dose that one receives from flying at altitude is possibly misleading.

Not without knowing the actual dose one receives from the machines.  Receiving chronic (long term) low doses of radiation does not hurt you.  
If you go through a scanner, you will be flying.  If you're flying you will receive excess doses of radiation.  If the goal is to not receive any doses of radiation, you can't fly.
Using radiation as a reason to stop the scanners is just an attempt to scare people.  Nothing more, nothing less
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: allaire on November 16, 2010, 06:59:22 PM
I present that as one of the concerns that seems to have merit.  Do you want some more? 

That the images cannot and would not be saved.
http://gizmodo.com/5690749/these-are-the-first-100-leaked-body-scans (http://gizmodo.com/5690749/these-are-the-first-100-leaked-body-scans)
http://news.cnet.com/8301-31921_3-20012583-281.html (http://news.cnet.com/8301-31921_3-20012583-281.html)
http://epic.org/open_gov/foia/TSA_Procurement_Specs.pdf (http://epic.org/open_gov/foia/TSA_Procurement_Specs.pdf) Pages 7 and 16

Possibility of using the machines that produce higher definition images and a program to invert said image as pornography, including children.
Cannot include links as they violate forum rules.

Violations of peoples religious beliefs.

There are more concerns besides the possible and unknown long term health risks.
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: warhed on November 16, 2010, 07:01:31 PM
I'm not for or against the scanners.
I'm just pointing out that the health risk of these scanners is not a valid argument against them.
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: Sundowner on November 16, 2010, 08:38:25 PM
Duh-uhh...

Freedom implies risk.....LESS freedom implies MORE risk.

Regards,
Sun
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: Sundowner on November 16, 2010, 08:46:51 PM
heres a interesting read, over 35,000 pics were saved from the Florida courthouse, TSA has said over and over again that body imagers used for security purposes are unable to store, export or print images of passenger but yet 10's of thousands have been saved and leaked, so much for those rules, why would you want to keep them? and for what purpose but we feel safer dont we

http://news.discovery.com/tech/one-hundred-body-scan-images-published.html (http://news.discovery.com/tech/one-hundred-body-scan-images-published.html)

Article two
http://news.discovery.com/tech/feds-accidentally-save-body-scan-images-ooops.html (http://news.discovery.com/tech/feds-accidentally-save-body-scan-images-ooops.html)

Saw that Zoom, ...guess we can't continue to use "temporary or momentary embarrassment" in describing the "un-save-able" naked body scanner images.

Imagine the outrage when a collection of passenger's kids are discovered.

Shame on you TSA...shame.

Sun
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: Sundowner on November 16, 2010, 08:55:08 PM
I present that as one of the concerns that seems to have merit.  Do you want some more? 

That the images cannot and would not be saved.
http://gizmodo.com/5690749/these-are-the-first-100-leaked-body-scans (http://gizmodo.com/5690749/these-are-the-first-100-leaked-body-scans)
http://news.cnet.com/8301-31921_3-20012583-281.html (http://news.cnet.com/8301-31921_3-20012583-281.html)
http://epic.org/open_gov/foia/TSA_Procurement_Specs.pdf (http://epic.org/open_gov/foia/TSA_Procurement_Specs.pdf) Pages 7 and 16

Possibility of using the machines that produce higher definition images and a program to invert said image as pornography, including children.
Cannot include links as they violate forum rules.

Violations of peoples religious beliefs.

There are more concerns besides the possible and unknown long term health risks.

Saw your post late, allaire.

Kudos to you and Zoom for these links.

Regards,
Sun
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: warhed on November 16, 2010, 09:04:52 PM
LOL @ the video on the gizmodo page, the one from Florida.  Did you guys even watch it?  You can't see a single detail!  Looks like a photoshop filter that turns you into cotton.
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: FLOTSOM on November 16, 2010, 09:05:39 PM
hows about this.................


shame on those people who carru bombs and weapons onboard airliners making this kind of security a necessary evil of modern society?

why dont we blame those who brought it on and not those who try to make life a little safer for the masses.

oh and by your own logic should we remove from the store shelves and from the homes of people every type of photographic equipment that has ever been created???? cause im sure at some point some scumbag has misused at least one of every kind of camera that has ever existed.

and as a final and really sickening thought ask yourself a question...would you rather an unidentifiable out of focus and fuzzy picture be found in some sleaze bags possession someday or a grave to visit....... which would you prefer to take the risk on?
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: MORAY37 on November 16, 2010, 09:17:35 PM
I present that as one of the concerns that seems to have merit.  Do you want some more?  

That the images cannot and would not be saved.
http://gizmodo.com/5690749/these-are-the-first-100-leaked-body-scans (http://gizmodo.com/5690749/these-are-the-first-100-leaked-body-scans)
http://news.cnet.com/8301-31921_3-20012583-281.html (http://news.cnet.com/8301-31921_3-20012583-281.html)
http://epic.org/open_gov/foia/TSA_Procurement_Specs.pdf (http://epic.org/open_gov/foia/TSA_Procurement_Specs.pdf) Pages 7 and 16

Possibility of using the machines that produce higher definition images and a program to invert said image as pornography, including children.
Cannot include links as they violate forum rules.

Violations of peoples religious beliefs.

There are more concerns besides the possible and unknown long term health risks.

The long term health risks are bothersome.  The millimeter band frequency they operate at is known to "unzip" DNA strands.  If this happens, then that cell will not replicate correctly.  As a biologist, I will refuse to walk through one.  Feel my sack, if you must.  I will give you a lollipop after, TSA dude.

The sample images from the body scans the TSA released are severely doctored as to hide the true effectiveness of the machine to the conservative (not the political meaning of the word) american populace.  The true images from backscatter XRays are crystal clear, no matter what the TSA says.  One handbook actually declares "if the genitals are not in clear focus, the scan is not being completed at an effective ratio."  

While I don't really care who sees me naked, in fact, I would gladly walk through the airport au natural, I'm still young, dumb and in shape...... my girlfriend, on the other hand, will not be examined by Mister "fresh out of community college" TSA agent, an agency whose hiring procedures have already led to the hiring of convicted sex offenders and at least 3 pedophiles.

It is my opinion this is the latest reinforcing agent that the war on terrorism is over, and we have objectively lost.

This is not acceptable.
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_N2EyyrA_LPs/TOIeK-L7lCI/AAAAAAAAKy4/mlSOI_eMszQ/s1600/kid.jpg)
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: Tec on November 16, 2010, 09:33:54 PM
OK Tec is Obama n flotsom is vice pres  :aok they right we not.

I don't even have a retort for an argument as well thought out as this.  Your skills of debate are on a level I can never hope to achieve so I am forced to yield to you good sir.
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: Masherbrum on November 16, 2010, 09:39:27 PM
Bold fail

Nope.   Blackberry fail.   :cry
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: Tec on November 16, 2010, 10:02:12 PM
but let them have their blanket.

No thanks.  I may be willing to make some concessions in life in the name of safety, I will not make them in the name of "feeling safe".  As you yourself pointed out earlier in the thread anyone(well most) who don't feel like the blanket here is adequately warm and snuggly are free to go.

               ^
                l
                l
 Canada is  l that way, and Europe is right over there ---------->

Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: Volron on November 16, 2010, 10:07:27 PM
What we need is Lemurs watching you

(http://www.hilariousgifs.com/gifs/ceiling-lemur-watching-you-motivational-poster.gif)

Great...now I won't be able to sleep tonight. :noid

So...um...Skuzzy is going to break out the ban hammer?  Eitherway, IN.
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: allaire on November 16, 2010, 10:28:52 PM
Nope.   Blackberry fail.   :cry
Had to mess with you there Karaya.:devil
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: CAP1 on November 16, 2010, 11:07:31 PM
hows about this.................


shame on those people who carru bombs and weapons onboard airliners making this kind of security a necessary evil of modern society?

why dont we blame those who brought it on and not those who try to make life a little safer for the masses.

oh and by your own logic should we remove from the store shelves and from the homes of people every type of photographic equipment that has ever been created???? cause im sure at some point some scumbag has misused at least one of every kind of camera that has ever existed.

and as a final and really sickening thought ask yourself a question...would you rather an unidentifiable out of focus and fuzzy picture be found in some sleaze bags possession someday or a grave to visit....... which would you prefer to take the risk on?

i dunno your opinion on gun ownership, and fear i may be getting close to the edge here...but assuming you own some sort of firearm legally....but in the name of safety(because someone might break into your shop and steal it) would you give up your firearm just as easily?

please don't intrepret anything i'm saying as me being an ass.....
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: 68ZooM on November 16, 2010, 11:09:39 PM
LOL @ the video on the gizmodo page, the one from Florida.  Did you guys even watch it?  You can't see a single detail!  Looks like a photoshop filter that turns you into cotton.

Warhed if you keep reading it says the video is from a older machine that is much fuzzier than the other more sophisticated ones there using in Airports, that vid was from the courthouse i do beleive, read the whole article not just watch the vid
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: CAP1 on November 16, 2010, 11:11:31 PM
The long term health risks are bothersome.  The millimeter band frequency they operate at is known to "unzip" DNA strands.  If this happens, then that cell will not replicate correctly.  As a biologist, I will refuse to walk through one.  Feel my sack, if you must.  I will give you a lollipop after, TSA dude.

The sample images from the body scans the TSA released are severely doctored as to hide the true effectiveness of the machine to the conservative (not the political meaning of the word) american populace.  The true images from backscatter XRays are crystal clear, no matter what the TSA says.  One handbook actually declares "if the genitals are not in clear focus, the scan is not being completed at an effective ratio."  

While I don't really care who sees me naked, in fact, I would gladly walk through the airport au natural, I'm still young, dumb and in shape...... my girlfriend, on the other hand, will not be examined by Mister "fresh out of community college" TSA agent, an agency whose hiring procedures have already led to the hiring of convicted sex offenders and at least 3 pedophiles.

It is my opinion this is the latest reinforcing agent that the war on terrorism is over, and we have objectively lost.

This is not acceptable.
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_N2EyyrA_LPs/TOIeK-L7lCI/AAAAAAAAKy4/mlSOI_eMszQ/s1600/kid.jpg)

bolded.......i had thought this quite a bit............
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: warhed on November 16, 2010, 11:23:28 PM
Warhed if you keep reading it says the video is from a older machine that is much fuzzier than the other more sophisticated ones there using in Airports, that vid was from the courthouse i do beleive, read the whole article not just watch the vid

I understaand that, but it was posted to say "see how bad this is?"
A scare tactic was used, and it failed.
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: 68ZooM on November 16, 2010, 11:27:22 PM
Ahh I'm not concerned as to the side affects issue as i think no longterm harm would occur, its the privacy issue, constitutional thing
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: FLOTSOM on November 16, 2010, 11:37:17 PM
No thanks.  I may be willing to make some concessions in life in the name of safety, I will not make them in the name of "feeling safe".  As you yourself pointed out earlier in the thread anyone(well most) who don't feel like the blanket here is adequately warm and snuggly are free to go.

               ^
                l
                l
 Canada is  l that way, and Europe is right over there ---------->



Tec your awesome.....an azzholieo......but awesome!  :salute

i dunno your opinion on gun ownership, and fear i may be getting close to the edge here...but assuming you own some sort of firearm legally....but in the name of safety(because someone might break into your shop and steal it) would you give up your firearm just as easily?

please don't intrepret anything i'm saying as me being a sweetie .....

my opinion on gun ownership....well i understand both sides of that debate. i believe in the end it is personal choice. especially considering that statistically those who own the gun are most likely to be its victim if it causes someone injury. if you own then and act responsible and handle them maturely then all should be fine, if you act like an idiot well then you will pay the price for your own stupidity.

so let stupid people own all the guns they want :) it will help keep the population down!

i use to own alot of firearms, i gave them up of my own choice and of my own decision, and do not own any today. due to past indiscretions involving other types of legal matters the government prefers i keep it that way :) , but if i am in absolute need of one i can get one, its not like that's really difficult.

OK sweetie :)
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: CAP1 on November 17, 2010, 01:00:12 AM
Tec your awesome.....an azzholieo......but awesome!  :salute

my opinion on gun ownership....well i understand both sides of that debate. i believe in the end it is personal choice. especially considering that statistically those who own the gun are most likely to be its victim if it causes someone injury. if you own then and act responsible and handle them maturely then all should be fine, if you act like an idiot well then you will pay the price for your own stupidity.

so let stupid people own all the guns they want :) it will help keep the population down!

i use to own alot of firearms, i gave them up of my own choice and of my own decision, and do not own any today. due to past indiscretions involving other types of legal matters the government prefers i keep it that way :) , but if i am in absolute need of one i can get one, its not like that's really difficult.

OK sweetie :)

understood.......

i don't own any, althoughi could acquire them any number of ways.
 my reason for not owning one is kind of anal though. i would really like to own one. but i know myself well enough to know that i would not properly care for them, and that i would not keep myself proficient. thus, i would be more of a danger to myself and those i care about, so i choose not to own them.
 if i did though, i would be very very unwilling to give them up just because the powers that be deem that they can provide me better security than i can for myself.

 you ain't gonna try to make me wear a skirt now, are ya? :noid :bolt:
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: FLOTSOM on November 17, 2010, 01:13:03 AM
you ain't gonna try to make me wear a skirt now, are ya? :noid :bolt:

what do you mean "make you wear a skirt"??????????

The AVA'ers tell me you stole all of their wives and girlfriends skirts and they cant get you to stop wearing the damn things in public!!!!!! they also say that it wouldnt be such a bad thing if your arse wasnt so fat and you would shave your damn leggs!!!!!

they also said that when you dance it looks a little like this

:banana:

except far more retarded!

 :neener: :rofl :neener:
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: sntslilhlpr6601 on November 17, 2010, 08:20:42 AM
I'll be getting the pat down until the long-term health effects of these scanners has been determined. I'm high risk for skin cancer so the mere mention of it has turned me off for now.

I've got no problem with being seen naked. The problem lies with TSA and their lack of professionalism. They need to get their act together, plain and simple.

If it were up to me, these scanners wouldn't be necessary because there'd be plenty of legally armed civilians already on board airplanes. But we all know that'll never happen.
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: VonMessa on November 17, 2010, 10:54:46 AM
I'll be getting the pat down until the long-term health effects of these scanners has been determined. I'm high risk for skin cancer so the mere mention of it has turned me off for now.

I've got no problem with being seen naked. The problem lies with TSA and their lack of professionalism. They need to get their act together, plain and simple.

If it were up to me, these scanners wouldn't be necessary because there'd be plenty of legally armed civilians already on board airplanes. But we all know that'll never happen.

That is the core of the issue.  While not being armed on a commercial flight, vigilance, prudence and being observant (i.e. having decent SA) would prevent lots of these incidents. 

If others acted like the guy on the plane with the "underwear bomber" did, would-be attackers may think twice about trying this crap.  This guy turned and saw the "underwear bomber" up to no-good and said "Oh HELL no, not on my ride home you are not!"

The problem is that people are assuming less and less responsibility for their own safety, and are willing to sacrifice freedom for safety provided by government entities.

I, however, am not one of them.
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: CAP1 on November 17, 2010, 10:56:03 AM
That is the core of the issue.  While not being armed on a commercial flight, vigilance, prudence and being observant (i.e. having decent SA) would prevent lots of these incidents. 

If others acted like the guy on the plane with the "underwear bomber" did, would-be attackers may think twice about trying this crap.  This guy turned and saw the "underwear bomber" up to no-good and said "Oh HELL no, not on my ride home you are not!"

The problem is that people are assuming less and less responsibility for their own safety, and are willing to sacrifice freedom for safety provided by government entities.

I, however, am not one of them.

attackers would be less likely to try this stuff, if we were allowed to profile also.  :aok
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: Nefarious on November 17, 2010, 12:41:20 PM
The law suits are starting to pile up... These clowns aren't going to be around much longer.  :aok

http://amarillo.com/news/local-news/2010-10-11/lawsuit-airport-search-indecent

Quote
"As the TSA agent was frisking plaintiff, the agent pulled the plaintiff's blouse completely down, exposing plaintiffs' breasts to everyone in the area," the lawsuit said. "As would be expected, plaintiff was extremely embarrassed and humiliated."

The suit said the woman filed an administrative claim against the TSA, but the agency never responded, sparking the lawsuit.The suit also claims that other TSA employees continued to joke and laugh about the incident for an extended period of time. The woman was distraught over the incident and left the screening area so an acquaintance could console her, the suit said.

When the woman re-entered the boarding area, employees once again began joking about the matter, the suit said."One male TSA employee expressed to the plaintiff that he wished he would have been there when she came through the first time and that 'he would just have to watch the video,'" the suit said.
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: 68ZooM on November 17, 2010, 12:53:26 PM
The law suits are starting to pile up... These clowns aren't going to be around much longer.  :aok

http://amarillo.com/news/local-news/2010-10-11/lawsuit-airport-search-indecent


lol those Implants could of been explosive
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: Vulcan on November 17, 2010, 02:23:11 PM
I'll be getting the pat down until the long-term health effects of these scanners has been determined. I'm high risk for skin cancer so the mere mention of it has turned me off for now.

Wonder how long it would take for someone to bring a lawsuit against the TSA and the makers of these scanners for giving them cancer :)
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: Nefarious on November 17, 2010, 03:51:31 PM
Here's one that I'm sure will be making headlines soon...

http://www.ourlittlechatterboxes.com/2010/11/tsa-sexual-assault.html
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: Babalonian on November 17, 2010, 04:48:15 PM
I'm inclined to agressive electronic scanning of passengers since I've always considered it faster and more considerate of passenger privacy, also less prone to human errs. 

My mum took a flight yesterday, hopped from LA to San Fran and then back, got "more agressively than usual" frisked by TSA (I probabley woulda socked the poor guy in the head outa reflex) and they even had professional legal observers there to make sure no rules or bounds were crossed, which makes me even more peeved that they agressively frisked my 65-yo mother twice in one day.  I think they're going too far, even if what they're doing is justified.  I know I'm by far from the first person in our community that would jab a quick one to a TSA or confront them for agressively frisking a loved one, even if what they do is in the name of safety.
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: CAP1 on November 17, 2010, 04:54:11 PM
in order for us to remain a free society, we must incur risk. if we attempt to remove risk, we will also remove our freedom.
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: MORAY37 on November 17, 2010, 05:34:09 PM
Quote
A Miami Transportation Security Administration screener was arrested this week after allegedly using an expandable police baton to beat up a co-worker in an airport parking lot.
The TSA considers what to do about airport security.

The reason for the assault: police said the victim and other TSA employees had been making fun of the size of the screener's genitals.

The disagreement started several months ago when screener Rolando Negrin, 44, and his co-workers were trained on the TSA's controversial full body image scanners.

The body scanners allow TSA staff in a separate room view images of the of airline passengers' full bodies, private parts and all, with the passenger's face blurred.

According to the police report, during the training exercise the machines revealed that Negrin "had a small noodle and [his] co-workers made fun of him on a daily basis."

After months of ridicule, Negrin told the police that "he could not take the jokes anymore and lost his mind."

Yup.  They can't see a thing in those pictures Flotsam.  Real professional organization.  Rapiscan....  how incredibly fitting.  (Rape-i-scan)
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: VonMessa on November 17, 2010, 05:49:51 PM
in order for us to remain a free society, we must incur risk. if we attempt to remove risk, we will also remove our freedom.

Can you say ADS-B?

GA folks are gonna have to start grabbing their ankles soon, also...
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: CAP1 on November 17, 2010, 05:53:10 PM
Can you say ADS-B?

GA folks are gonna have to start grabbing their ankles soon, also...

yea, i know....
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: greens on November 17, 2010, 05:56:50 PM
Just think how many pervs are in line for TSA security "screener". lined up for miles i bet. what my wife went thru is making me not wanting to travel ever again. The so called pat-down was more like a fondle down. well according to tec's version of my "race" I dont think the "law" wud believe "my race" my wife if i fought them in  court.
IMO i dont think it was right to pat-down like that. not for any women to get patted down like they are a felon ina prison.
    
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: Tec on November 17, 2010, 06:07:47 PM
Oh greens, if laughter truly is the best medicine you are my fountain of youth.
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: Simaril on November 19, 2010, 06:42:27 AM
in order for us to remain a free society, we must incur risk. if we attempt to remove risk, we will also remove our freedom.

Quoted for truth.

We will never, ever be 100% safe. Can't happen. There will always be a way for something to sneak through.

The risk of terrorism is LOW - even before 9/11. Think of it this way - even if you were going to be placed on a plane on 9/11 itself, you had a risk of 3/10,000 of getting on the doomed ones. Scary, but safer than being a smoker!

Since then, over 9 years, there have been over 36 MILLION domestic flights in the US. Total number of deaths from terrorism? Zero.

Remember, the strategy of cultural terrorism is to create an environment of fear (hence "TERRORism") that causes the target group to alter its political behavior. The fear by its nature will be out of proportion to the danger, which is how the very few terrorists try to counterbalance their own political and or numerical weakness.

We're doing the terrorists work for them.

Remember after 9/11, when the airports reopened? National Guardsmen with M16s all over the place. Pissed me off - even if those guys had been there 9/11, it would have made NO DIFFERENCE to the attackers. All they were doing is making people feel better, and that's all that is going on with TSA now. "Everybody feel safe now, we are dealing with the threat of idiots who try to burn their own pee pees off."

/end rant
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: SWkiljoy on November 19, 2010, 07:38:19 AM
                    (http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c135/007rusty/popcorn.gif)
(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c135/007rusty/squirrel.jpg)
:lol  "The Squirrels with cameras are for your protection"  :rofl
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: SWkiljoy on November 19, 2010, 07:43:06 AM
I'm going to softly moan as I get my pat down, let's make this uncomfortable for all involved.  :aok
:huh     :lol :lol :lol
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: Penguin on November 19, 2010, 07:22:10 PM
:huh     :lol :lol :lol

Booyeah!

-Penguin
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: DREDIOCK on November 20, 2010, 07:08:59 PM
tell you what, you wanna gripe about the full body scan well here is what you do.

go find the children of any of the people who were on flight 93 on 9/11/01 and tell them to their faces that, you would happily let their parents die once again because your modesty and personal convenience is more important to you than the lives of the potentially thousands of others who could be killed by another hijacking. i am certain that they will completely agree with you and your pathetic suit that your gonna file against the TSA because you were made to feel momentarily uncomfortable.

now i am most certainly not the prime example of a great American "citizen", but at the end of the day i am an AMERICAN and the want to ensure the safety of my countrymen/women/CHILDREN far exceeds my modesty or want to avoid momentary and MINOR discomforts. i would rather be publically strip searched than to have to ever again look at this




if your unhappy with the airport security in America you are more than welcome to move to a country that has less stringent standards..........



Fact, Had our authorities imply enforced laws and security measures already on the books 9/11 would never have happened. Period

Another country with less stringent standards... You mean like Israel?
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: warhed on November 21, 2010, 01:14:12 AM
Fact, Had our authorities imply enforced laws and security measures already on the books 9/11 would never have happened. Period

Another country with less stringent standards... You mean like Israel?

Israel uses racial profiling. 
Four letter word over here
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: greens on November 21, 2010, 01:41:40 AM
Israel uses racial profiling. 
Four letter word over here
Right SMACK on the bullseye warhed  :aok thats what TSA needs to do. n i think ill moan too when i get screened by TSA.  :cheers:
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: CAP1 on November 21, 2010, 03:16:34 AM
Israel uses racial profiling. 
Four letter word over here
they don't need to profile racially...but they do need to profile.
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: MiloMorai on November 21, 2010, 04:05:43 AM
In the news:

TSA pat-down leaves traveler covered in urine
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40291856/ns/travel-news/

Napolitano May Exempt Muslims From Airport Pat-Downs
http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=468908161560&id=92925746942

let me get this straight... these strict regulations were implemented because of Muslims September 11th, 2001 and then re enforced by people like the underwear bomber who happens to be Muslim, and then the ones responsible for all this controlling bs don't even have to be checked?  :confused: :rolleyes:

Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: zack1234 on November 21, 2010, 04:07:58 AM
If your going to fly... fly naked.  :D



Thats right wear 1970's hotpants, tight licra top and open toe sandles :old:
No need for scanner :old:

Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: warhed on November 21, 2010, 05:15:03 AM
they don't need to profile racially...but they do need to profile.

Racial, ethnic, etc.  They also have one of the safest airlines in the world.
Profiling is such a taboo in the U.S.  Unless a child goes missing, or a serial killer is on the loose.  Then suddenly profiling turns into a useful tool.

But for regular law enforcement and security, it's looked down upon.

Ah well, we'll reap what we sew.
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: scot12b on November 21, 2010, 06:10:57 AM
IN :noid
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: CAP1 on November 21, 2010, 01:07:39 PM
Racial, ethnic, etc.  They also have one of the safest airlines in the world.
Profiling is such a taboo in the U.S.  Unless a child goes missing, or a serial killer is on the loose.  Then suddenly profiling turns into a useful tool.

But for regular law enforcement and security, it's looked down upon.

Ah well, we'll reap what we sew.

profiling is taboo here in the us, because certain groups have campaigned against it. these groups "represent" some of the groups that are smeared due to the actions of their "types"

 as i said, it doesn't have to be, and shouldn't be racial. profiling can be done a number of ways.

 appearance, and actions, or how you carry yourself are two very useful ones.

no one that is going to do something is going to walk in perfectly normal. they're going to try to "blend", and in doing so, they'll make themselves stick out. they'll be somewhat "jittery" if that's the right word.

 police here in nj used to profile partly based on your car(the state troopers out on the turnpike especially). it was pretty certain that if you were driving a mercedes, lexus, bmw, etc. with limo tint, and all "pimped" out, and had out of state tags(especially florida), that you were gonna get stopped.
 and know what? 90% of those that they stopped were drug runners.

 profiling works. if they used that, all of this scanner/take off your smelly shoes/pat me down while i fart in your face crap would be unnecessary.
 
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: Dichotomy on November 21, 2010, 01:17:04 PM
There's an idea.. eat a plate of beans an hour before your flight.  You won't be popular but you'll be remembered  :t
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: CAP1 on November 21, 2010, 01:23:20 PM
There's an idea.. eat a plate of beans an hour before your flight.  You won't be popular but you'll be remembered  :t
you've no idea how much i been thinking about that.......along with a friggin ginormous dildo down my pants too.........let em pat that down, as i moan...... :devil
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: Dichotomy on November 21, 2010, 05:53:38 PM
you DO mean the FRONT of your pants right?  :neener:
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: Delirium on November 21, 2010, 07:47:26 PM
Better yet, buy metallic duct tape and cut it into strips. Then take those strips and stick them to you abdomen and form words, things like;

'Suck this' (with arrow pointing down)

'TSA gets off seeing me naked'

This way, when you go through the body scanner, they can discover how you really feel.

Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: Tupac on November 21, 2010, 08:29:15 PM
Better yet, buy metallic duct tape and cut it into strips. Then take those strips and stick them to you abdomen and form words, things like;

'Suck this' (with arrow pointing down)

'TSA gets off seeing me naked'

This way, when you go through the body scanner, they can discover how you really feel.



Can they arrest me or anything for doing that? Im flying december 10th, and i want some ideas.
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: Vulcan on November 21, 2010, 08:53:57 PM
Can they arrest me or anything for doing that? Im flying december 10th, and i want some ideas.

duct tape on an airliner? Are you crazy man? Have you not seen what macguyver could do with a roll of duct tape?
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: CAP1 on November 21, 2010, 10:34:55 PM
you DO mean the FRONT of your pants right?  :neener:

WAIT??!!

they're supposed to go in the FRONT?????  :uhoh :noid
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: CAP1 on November 21, 2010, 10:35:47 PM
duct tape on an airliner? Are you crazy man? Have you not seen what macguyver could do with a roll of duct tape?

i've seen what guppy, soulss, and shuffler can though.  :devil :noid
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: Vulcan on November 21, 2010, 10:38:29 PM
you could always just pop some viagra before the flight  :devil  unless of course you feel 'underequiped' dichotomy
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: Westy on November 22, 2010, 11:00:23 AM
Milo! But wait.  Why don't you ask questions and scratch the surface
of what is really behind the TSA baloney.

http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/opinion/becky-akers/5267-rep-john-mica-lets-privatize-perversionq
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: Shuffler on November 22, 2010, 11:16:14 AM
On the news they said that it would take around 6 hours to body search one flight. I pretty sure that was the number.
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: MORAY37 on November 22, 2010, 12:09:23 PM
On the news they said that it would take around 6 hours to body search one flight. I pretty sure that was the number.

160 people on the average 500-1,200 mile flight in the United States.

160x 2 minute patdown= 320 minutes for each flight, if every passenger is groped.

5.33 hours, per plane.

Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: CAP1 on November 22, 2010, 12:31:03 PM
if any of you care, nj101.5 is talking about this right now.......you can listen live on the web. they mentioned that even isreals head of transportation security says we're doing it wrong....and the profiling came up again.

 also, for those that care, the best governer in the us will be on that very same station live tonight at 7pm eastern.
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: Ripsnort on November 22, 2010, 12:38:00 PM
http://www.eturbonews.com/1087/nude-airline-take-germany
 :devil
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: druski85 on November 22, 2010, 12:59:50 PM
In 10 pages of sometimes lengthy responses, I believe Jayhawk had the best idea.   :rofl

I'm flying on the 24th, but from London - Shannon. (IRE) Hopefully some of these winners won't screw me over in security at Heathrow if the chain makes it that far. 
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: Wolfala on November 22, 2010, 05:57:09 PM
Can you say ADS-B?

GA folks are gonna have to start grabbing their ankles soon, also...

I'll have this thing called a circuit breaker. INOP
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: mensa180 on November 22, 2010, 09:05:42 PM
Everyone just pop some soma and chill.
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: CAP1 on November 22, 2010, 10:32:19 PM
Everyone just pop some soma and chill.

uummmm...........
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: Vulcan on November 22, 2010, 10:55:00 PM
Wow, just wow.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSQTz1bccL4
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: CAP1 on November 22, 2010, 11:07:39 PM
Wow, just wow.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSQTz1bccL4


at least they put his shirt back on for him.


-eleventy million to that dad for letting them touch his kid.
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: Vulcan on November 22, 2010, 11:12:05 PM
at least they put his shirt back on for him.


-eleventy million to that dad for letting them touch his kid.

Dunno, I wouldn't let my kid go through that. If this is what is happening to the US, then Bin Laden has won.
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: CAP1 on November 22, 2010, 11:30:11 PM
Dunno, I wouldn't let my kid go through that. If this is what is happening to the US, then Bin Laden has won.

yep.....and that's why i said - eleventy million........if it were my kid, i'd be in jail right now.....but with the satisfaction of having sent that agent to the hospital....and i'm not a violent person.

 and yes, they have won. this is not the America that our vets have fought for, nor the ones our young men and women are presently fighting for.

we lost on the morning of sept. 11, 2001.
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: FiLtH on November 23, 2010, 12:01:37 AM
    Hosschit we lost..we havent lost anything. So we have made changes that make it harder for the animals to hurt us. Its that or we can expect to get hit hard and often by an enemy we cant fight, just so we can stick our chest out and say "See? Im still free!"  The next time an aircraft is used by them, all these "protesters" will be on the "Why isnt it harder to do that?" bus.
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: CAP1 on November 23, 2010, 12:55:54 AM
   Hosschit we lost..we havent lost anything. So we have made changes that make it harder for the animals to hurt us. Its that or we can expect to get hit hard and often by an enemy we cant fight, just so we can stick our chest out and say "See? Im still free!"  The next time an aircraft is used by them, all these "protesters" will be on the "Why isnt it harder to do that?" bus.

and yet they're talking about letting a certain type of person(s) skip the pat downs, and/or the scanners? the ones that tend to wish the most violence on us?

 no......we need to allow them to profile, such as the israelis do. with that, none of the rest of this bs would be necessary, it would save tons of money, and also do a better job of giving us REAL security, rather than the false sense of security they are trying to now.

 
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: greens on November 23, 2010, 12:56:06 AM
Now a post saying that a special ed teacher went thru TSA they didnt listen n his peebag spilled n they sheesh going way to far. TSA needs to stop.
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: BrownBaron on November 23, 2010, 01:04:51 AM
Now a post saying that a special ed teacher went thru TSA they didnt listen n his peebag spilled n they sheesh going way to far. TSA needs to stop.

..... :headscratch:......
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: allaire on November 23, 2010, 01:54:43 AM
A retired special ed teacher, who is a survivor of bladder cancer, has a urostomy bag told the TSA agent that he needs to watch the bag or he might break the seal.  Said agent didn't listen and broke the seal which caused the bag to leak.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101123/ap_on_re_us/us_airport_security_pat_down (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101123/ap_on_re_us/us_airport_security_pat_down)
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: Nefarious on November 23, 2010, 10:35:13 AM
Blogger Matt Kernan bypasses the Body Scanner and Enhanced Pat Down by citing his constitutional rights... Chalk one up for the good guys!

Quote
“I am aware that it is policy, but I disagree with the policy, and I think that it is unconstitutional.  As a U.S. citizen, I have the right to move freely within my country as long as I can demonstrate proof of citizenship and have demonstrated no reasonable cause to be detained.”

http://noblasters.com/
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: CAP1 on November 23, 2010, 12:35:39 PM
Blogger Matt Kernan bypasses the Body Scanner and Enhanced Pat Down by citing his constitutional rights... Chalk one up for the good guys!

http://noblasters.com/

that's pretty good, 'cause what he did, was to show those schmucks that they really are nothing more than overpaid burger king rejects with k-mart badges.


 that being said, in the past, i have had decent conversations with tsa guys that had noticed my cap credentials.
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: DREDIOCK on November 23, 2010, 08:35:48 PM
    Hosschit we lost..we havent lost anything. So we have made changes that make it harder for the animals to hurt us.

Total nonsense. We havent made it harder for them to do anything but take and blow up airplanes. Big whoop.
Whats to prevent them from blowing themselves up in the airport? Or times square? Or a mall? Or a movie theater? Or a school? Hospital? Or any of a thousand other places where large numbers of people can be killed or maimed in an instant.

Fact of the matter is since 9/11 it hasnt happend on an airplane again. Even without these machines or pat downs. Other countries DO manage to keep their air travel secure without such intrusive means. And do so reasonably well.
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: DREDIOCK on November 23, 2010, 08:40:54 PM
Wait! I have the solution.

Lets put full body scanners and pat down agents outside every home building and store in the country. We can augment this with placing portable scanners in every car that would instantly alert the national security force whenever any kind of contraband is detected.

Thing about the security types thats pretty consistent. They never think any measure  or level of security is sufficient enough.
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: CAP1 on November 23, 2010, 09:37:20 PM
Wait! I have the solution.

Lets put full body scanners and pat down agents outside every home building and store in the country. We can augment this with placing portable scanners in every car that would instantly alert the national security force whenever any kind of contraband is detected.

Thing about the security types thats pretty consistent. They never think any measure  or level of security is sufficient enough.

that's sort of what's coming if we let them get away with this crap.
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: CAP1 on November 23, 2010, 09:39:01 PM
Total nonsense. We havent made it harder for them to do anything but take and blow up airplanes. Big whoop.
Whats to prevent them from blowing themselves up in the airport? Or times square? Or a mall? Or a movie theater? Or a school? Hospital? Or any of a thousand other places where large numbers of people can be killed or maimed in an instant.

Fact of the matter is since 9/11 it hasnt happend on an airplane again. Even without these machines or pat downs. Other countries DO manage to keep their air travel secure without such intrusive means. And do so reasonably well.

the israeli chief of securtiy himself said that these scanners and/or the pat downs would not have spotted the underwear bomber...or the shoe bomber. don't forget also, the underwear bomber came from out of the country......as have most of any attempts....thus again rendering the scanners useless.
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: Westy on November 24, 2010, 12:56:51 PM
 The scanners are not useless.  Lost in all this artificial hand wringing
and hysterical wailing is that the TSA screening measures have made
the terrorists resort to using PETN.
 PETN is what was carried by the underwear and shoe bombers since
other stuff IS detected but petn cannot be ignited in the way they
tried to. Also the amounts were absolutely too small to do anything
even if it could have been. A pat down *definitely* would have
revealed the underwear bombers hidden explosives pack for sure.

 BTW. It was the Israeli security firm ICTS Int'l, using Israeli security
practices, that let the underwear bomber slip on boards the Detroit
bound flight in Sciphol a year ago.

As for doing things the Israeli way? Sure! IF the TSA had to treat
every passenger as a potential terrorist and interview each and every
one of them before boarding AND we had a fraction of a fraction of
the airports there are in this country AND we did not have the ethnic
diversity from being a melting pot for three hundred years AND we
didn't have some serious, domestic, non MiddleEastern-looking
terrorist groups already AND we did not have the massive number
of air travelers that we do. Then we could do what Israel does.
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: CAP1 on November 24, 2010, 08:07:55 PM
The scanners are not useless.  Lost in all this artificial hand wringing
and hysterical wailing is that the TSA screening measures have made
the terrorists resort to using PETN.
 PETN is what was carried by the underwear and shoe bombers since
other stuff IS detected but petn cannot be ignited in the way they
tried to. Also the amounts were absolutely too small to do anything
even if it could have been. A pat down *definitely* would have
revealed the underwear bombers hidden explosives pack for sure.

 BTW. It was the Israeli security firm ICTS Int'l, using Israeli security
practices, that let the underwear bomber slip on boards the Detroit
bound flight in Sciphol a year ago.

As for doing things the Israeli way? Sure! IF the TSA had to treat
every passenger as a potential terrorist
and interview each and every
one of them before boarding AND we had a fraction of a fraction of
the airports there are in this country AND we did not have the ethnic
diversity from being a melting pot for three hundred years AND we
didn't have some serious, domestic, non MiddleEastern-looking
terrorist groups already AND we did not have the massive number
of air travelers that we do. Then we could do what Israel does.


bolded.....and giving everyone a police style search, or walk through a full body x-ray isn't?
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: Skulls22 on November 24, 2010, 08:10:05 PM
Well how did this work out?
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: DREDIOCK on November 24, 2010, 11:28:21 PM
Again. Even if these scanners and pat downs do work. all they do is prevent planes from being blown up. A pretty small casualty list compared to if they had a mind to set off a bomb at lets say..the checkpoint in the airport.

Is there anyone here who doesnt think that if given the explosives and the means to set them off that they would have any serious difficulty in blowing up a good portion of an airport . Or again. a movie theater full of people or any other place where large numbers gather in a relatively small area?

All this is is phsycological nonsense playing on your emotions. There is absolutely NOTHING that can truely protect you. It is a hard, cruel, cold and dangerous world out there. Most of the population isnt involved in playing nice nice cept on the surface and for show. The sooner people get used to this reality. the better off you'll be. Especially so called Security force,s most of whom by their very nature seek nothing more then to control you. Because thats what "security" is all about. Control. They are by nature. Absolute control freaks. I've yet to meet one that wasnt.
And no amount of control is ever enough
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: themaj on November 25, 2010, 10:42:39 AM
 :noid I think that gov't is making life as uncomfortable as possible in order for people to be more accepting of getting chip implants. "Get this implant and you will breeze through the security check points"  :bolt:
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: warhed on November 25, 2010, 11:54:23 AM
Once again, airports are not required to use TSA or the scanners.  The TSA is not mandatory, it is up to the airport to decide to use TSA agents or use private security.  Stop blaming the government on this one, they aren't "forcing" anything.
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: flight17 on November 25, 2010, 01:36:46 PM
Once again, airports are not required to use TSA or the scanners.  The TSA is not mandatory, it is up to the airport to decide to use TSA agents or use private security.  Stop blaming the government on this one, they aren't "forcing" anything.
your wrong... All private security companies at airport fall under TSA rules and must use TSA procedures.
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: warhed on November 25, 2010, 01:50:55 PM
your wrong... All private security companies at airport fall under TSA rules and must use TSA procedures.

And that makes me wrong?  Full body scanners are not mandated, it is the TSA who chose to use them.  Private companies would not have to use them.  As long as they follow official procedure, they do not have to emulate current TSA measures. 
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: warhed on November 25, 2010, 01:56:42 PM
If the scanners were mandatory by TSA regulations, you would not be able to opt out.  This could all be solved by the airports, but keep blaming "The Man"
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: 68ZooM on November 25, 2010, 02:09:33 PM
I'm under the impression you have to go thru the Scanner, the "opt" out is the personal massage body search
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: warhed on November 25, 2010, 02:11:31 PM
I'm under the impression you have to go thru the Scanner, the "opt" out is the personal massage body search

A private sector company would NOT have to use the scanners.  There are a few airports who don't use TSA.  I believe one on in San Francisco has never used TSA at all.
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: warhed on November 25, 2010, 02:20:19 PM
I'm under the impression you have to go thru the Scanner, the "opt" out is the personal massage body search

It's the opposite, you can opt out of the scan, and get the frisking instead.
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: 68ZooM on November 25, 2010, 03:02:57 PM
It's the opposite, you can opt out of the scan, and get the frisking instead.


i think that's what i said,  you have to go thru the scanner the "opt" out of the scanner, is the full body massage.... as far as Private companies doing the same Job, they have to follow the guildlines set fourth by the TSA ( Da Gov)
if they have no scanners at that Airport then your going to be guaranteed a body massage from a friendly security guard, people are so Paranoid to the point of EVEYONE has to Prove there NOT a terrorist to board and fly a plane into America or even within its own States, Sad....

 :noid  :noid  :noid
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: warhed on November 25, 2010, 05:44:42 PM
i think that's what i said,  you have to go thru the scanner the "opt" out of the scanner, is the full body massage.... as far as Private companies doing the same Job, they have to follow the guildlines set fourth by the TSA ( Da Gov)
if they have no scanners at that Airport then your going to be guaranteed a body massage from a friendly security guard, people are so Paranoid to the point of EVEYONE has to Prove there NOT a terrorist to board and fly a plane into America or even within its own States, Sad....

 :noid  :noid  :noid

I guess I misunderstood the problem then.  People don't want to go through the scanner, and they dont wan't want the frisking?  Heh.  They also do not want racial or any profiling, they want everyone treated the same. 
Good luck with this one gents
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: Delirium on November 25, 2010, 05:54:12 PM
They have a new employee working for the TSA. It doesn't pay as much as his old job, but he gets certain 'perks'.

(http://thedanzatap.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/barney.jpg)
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: Vulcan on November 25, 2010, 06:50:29 PM
I have solved the problem.

First Muslim only flights.

Second all other flights security checkpoint merely requires consumption of a piece of streaky bacon before boarding.
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: mensa180 on November 26, 2010, 04:19:04 PM
uummmm...........

I should clarify, soma from Brave New World, not the real muscle relaxant (great name though).
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: CAP1 on November 26, 2010, 04:31:27 PM
well....seems like the sheep have spoken, and we're stuck with this crap.........guess i won't be visiting my brother anymore....or at least not till i have enough time off to drive to florida and back.
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: MiloMorai on November 26, 2010, 05:07:51 PM
(NaturalNews) Anticipating a nationwide grassroots surge of protests against naked body scanners and aggressive pat-downs, the TSA simply turned off its naked body scanners on Wednesday and let air travelers walk right through security checkpoints without being X-rayed or molested.

All across the country, air travelers are reporting that the TSA simply deactivated the naked body scanners and let people go right through without a scan. "Backscatter scanners are off. No scan. No patdown." reported a traveler from the Seattle airport. "Backscatter machines aren't being used at LAX," reported another traveler. "They're all roped off."

Much the same story is being reported all across the country.

http://www.naturalnews.com/030509_TSA_opt_out_day.html
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: allaire on November 26, 2010, 05:25:16 PM
Wow, the TSA was so worried about the possible problems caused by a mass opt out day that they shut the scanners down.  :rofl So much for them being required for the safety of airline travelers.  I can't wait to see what kind of numbers the airlines lost to people just staying home or driving to their relatives.
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: VonMessa on November 29, 2010, 06:48:56 AM
I should clarify, soma from Brave New World, not the real muscle relaxant (great name though).

Been watching and waiting for the Bokanovsky process to become implemented.     :noid

If you need me, I'll be at the New Mexico Savage Reservation. :rock

Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: VonMessa on November 29, 2010, 06:54:08 AM
well....seems like the sheep have spoken, and we're stuck with this crap.........guess i won't be visiting my brother anymore....or at least not till i have enough time off to drive to florida and back.

Come help me get this Bearhawk finished and you are welcome to use it, anytime  :D
Title: Re: We need YOUR help and a warning to all flying this Thanks Giving...
Post by: Babalonian on November 29, 2010, 03:49:22 PM
A private sector company would NOT have to use the scanners.  There are a few airports who don't use TSA.  I believe one on in San Francisco has never used TSA at all.

Nope, SF airport was frisking and massaging all (100%) passengers last week (Monday) when my 65-year old mother passed through... they don't have the scanners (I don't know if they're still otw or if this is the result of them opting to use a private company, under TSA supervision and mandates, that doesn't have to use scanners but now has to frisk all passengers).  It was security personel, doing pretty agressive frisks, under the supervision of a TSA employee and a professional third-party legal observer.  On the first flight she took up there, LAX was a similar deal except some terminals in LAX have the scanners (I observed the busier international terminals had them... I guess flights departing this country out over the pacific ocean, filled with more foreign citizens than US, are more of a security threat than the domestic flights heading inland or up the coast filled mostly with US citizens.....  :huh  :confused: ) and other terminals don't, resulting in the terminal my mother's flight was departing from being one of the terminals without a scanner and mandating all passengers get "the frisk" by TSA employees, again under the supervision of a professional third-party legal observer (as if the ordeal wasn't any more obviously rediculous and over-intrusive, they're paying some pretty pennies for these legal observers at each checkpoint around the nation).