Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: perdue3 on December 02, 2010, 05:48:21 PM
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What would it be?
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spitfires. I hate those things! they are one of the easiest planes to shoot, but I see them WAY too much.
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Runstangs.
2 many of em.
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The overmodelled brewskis
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The overmodelled brewskis
:rofl
Just because one shoots you down doesn't mean it's over modeled.
ack-ack
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The overmodelled brewskis
+1
I want to see what wins...
:rofl
Just because one shoots you down doesn't mean it's over modeled.
ack-ack
Not over modeled.....Over preforms its eny ;)
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gay16... er I mean the Spitfire Mk XVI. That thing has got to be the most over modeled plane in the game. The way it can do what it does is amazing.
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gay16... er I mean the Spitfire Mk XVI. That thing has got to be the most over modeled plane in the game. The way it can do what it does is amazing.
At least people dont get many perks for flying it.....
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Me262.
Ruins many a good fight simply by being in the area.
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Me262.
Ruins many a good fight simply by being in the area.
It does.....so does the brew....and alot of other planes....but the brew especially
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Me262.
Ruins many a good fight simply by being in the area.
+1 there just lerking waiting to club a seal
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:rofl
Just because one shoots you down doesn't mean it's over modeled.
ack-ack
Ahhhh ack ack
How lovely to meet you, I have heard so much about u. :D
I get shot down by every plane in the game..
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spitfires. I hate those things!
Agreed on both points.
- oldman
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spitfires. I hate those things! they are one of the easiest planes to shoot, but I see them WAY too much.
Personally I'd rather see a bunch of Spitfires coming my way than a bunch of 51's or 190's. Odds are better the spits will stick around and fight it out. :)
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It does.....so does the brew....and alot of other planes....but the brew especially
Really? Someone should have told the Bishops that last night at A27. They kept on bringing Brewsters at high altitude to pick the furball off A27 and each time the Brewsters died a fiery death without killing anyone. The impact of a Brewster in a furball is highly exaggerated to the point of being ridiculous.
ack-ack
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Damn brewski sympathisers
:noid
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It does.....so does the brew....and alot of other planes....but the brew especially
The only other plane that can literally ruin a fight is the Me163, but it is far more controlled. The B.239 is a joke.
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runstangs - nothing fun about being 25K up - diving - missing and going back up to try again. It gets very annoying.
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Spits in general. I hate em.
I would LOVE to take away these sets of training wheels for tricycles. Especially the F-16 modeled Spit 16.
Gotta dissagreee bout the 262. Once I ascertain its not Grizz. I only pay them enough attention to know where they are.
so long as I know where they are. I dont see them as being much of a threat.
Simply not enough people that know how to fly them well enough to be a major concern.
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Jugs.
They can really pick up speed when they dive on my Me262 that I am ruining good fights with.
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the other guys
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Gotta dissagreee bout the 262. Once I ascertain its not Grizz. I only pay them enough attention to know where they are.
so long as I know where they are. I dont see them as being much of a threat.
Simply not enough people that know how to fly them well enough to be a major concern.
That isn't the only way Me262s ruin fights. They also drag many potential kills away as they chase it futilely.
I will gladly HO any Me262 just to get rid of it.
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P38s, dweeb plane
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P38s, dweeb plane
That's a given. Anyone that needs the crutch of a 2nd engine can't possibly have any skill otherwise he'd be able to fly a plane without training wheels (in this case, training engines).
ack-ack
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I'd have to say 51D or 190D, rarely do I find one that is willing to stick around and fight after their first few bnz passes fail and I come close to co-e. The worst is when I decide I don't want to chase anymore and they keep coming back not letting me move onto the next fight.
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I say 109K4, grizz is just too good w/ em tater
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Me262.
Ruins many a good fight simply by being in the area.
Depends on who's in it. Most I could care less about.
Edit: I'd even go so far as to say the only person I consider a threat in it is Kazaa. There are three other to worry about but I don't have to worry about them cuz I know where they are when they're on.
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Unperk em all. Who cares. Folks who want to turn will turn. Those who want to BnZ, will BnZ. Get rid of one bird, and another one will take it's place on the complaint circuit.
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Unperk em all. Who cares. Folks who want to turn will turn. Those who want to BnZ, will BnZ. Get rid of one bird, and another one will take it's place on the complaint circuit.
+1 :salute
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Wirbies :noid
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with all these comments on brewskis did someone hold a grudge when teddy retired from the Pats or something? :headscratch: :rofl
I gotta say keep 262s: They provide a challenge for my escort runs :aok
Keep the Brewsters: They're bait :aok
Keep the Spitfires: They're fun to kill :aok
Keep my P51: Well...yeah
Keep the P38: Because its like my 51 now
Keep the Bombers: What would i escort without them?
Keep the Whirble dweebs: NOT...
Keep the P47s: They're flying bricks most of the time unless someone who knows the plane is flying it
I GOT IT!!!: Get rid of... of... heck i don't know what to get rid of. I feel good when they all die in my gunsights :t
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Beaufighters :noid :bolt:
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Beaufighters :noid :bolt:
M-18s :noid :bolt:
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Unperk em all. Who cares. Folks who want to turn will turn. Those who want to BnZ, will BnZ. Get rid of one bird, and another one will take it's place on the complaint circuit.
Hey stop making sense! :old:
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Unperk em all. Who cares. Folks who want to turn will turn. Those who want to BnZ, will BnZ. Get rid of one bird, and another one will take it's place on the complaint circuit.
If everything was unperked, I suspect the Mid War arena would become far more popular than the Me262 arenas. Honesly, I wouldn't object as I think Mid War is a much more balanced environment.
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If everything was unperked, I suspect the Mid War arena would become far more popular than the Me262 arenas. Honesly, I wouldn't object as I think Mid War is a much more balanced environment.
That is an interesting thought, and a reason to seriously consider unperking everything. Midwar would become a more viable place to play, and I would guess it might solve both the war winners and the furballer issues
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It would be a big DA lake. Both ends of the spectrum, Brews and temps, not much in between.
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Get rid of the wirblewinds! There for losers :neener:
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I would get rid of all the perked planes except for the side with fewest numbers, but that's another discussion. The truth is, 262s, Tempests, and -4s DO ruin good fights. When I see them unless they are flying incredibly stupid, I just leave and fight elsewhere, and if there is no elsewhere with a fight, I log off. I make no apologies for not being good enough of a pilot to win against them, and when I die to a machine instead of to a pilot, the only thing I learn to do better is to leave the area sooner.
I would get rid of the Spit 16. It IS a training wheels plane, except in this game you learn nothing but bad habits with your training wheels. I hear another Spit would be just as bad or worse, but I think the 16 gets the most attention because it has the biggest number after the name. But that doesn't change my choice, I'd still get rid of it.
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B-20 La-7's, real men only use ShVAK's! :noid
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P-47D-25! Hate them Jugs, always showing up at a GV fight with eggs. And when a con shows up, they run.
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P-47D-25! Hate them Jugs, always showing up at a GV fight with eggs. And when a con shows up, they run.
not me i show up in mine with no eggs, cause i know the other side will send the fun police, so i have something to shoot down :neener:
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I cant believe all the brew hate.......that plane is just as easy to kill as any other hell its as easy to kill as the 16......both those planes are only dangerous when the driver knows his-her plane.....oh wait that goes for Every plane in the hanger.........bot for the sake of the thread.........I would get rid of the.......S......P........B.. ..nope cant think of one plane......now if you were to ask about players................:-)
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not me i show up in mine with no eggs, cause i know the other side will send the fun police, so i have something to shoot down :neener:
I hope you realized that my statement is what i do.....except run when a cons shows up, i fight them too.
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I cant believe all the brew hate.......that plane is just as easy to kill as any other hell its as easy to kill as the 16......both those planes are only dangerous when the driver knows his-her plane.....oh wait that goes for Every plane in the hanger.........bot for the sake of the thread.........I would get rid of the.......S......P........B.. ..nope cant think of one plane......now if you were to ask about players................:-)
Yep. Especially if you're flying a hurricane. :noid
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get rid of thise sheep :old:
They have scary feet :old:
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If everything was unperked, I suspect the Mid War arena would become far more popular than the Me262 arenas. Honesly, I wouldn't object as I think Mid War is a much more balanced environment.
I don't think so. The majority aren't going to like they can't take up uber late war planes, even though the mid-war arena plane set offers up the best matchups of any of the arenas, it doesn't have the La-7, P-51D, FW 190D, Spitfire Mk XVI, etc. Also, the game play in MW is actually worse than the LW arena where hording undefended bases isn't just the norm, it's pretty much the only thing that happens.
ack-ack
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What would it be?
This has been suggested many times & will never happen because HTC hates anything from Air Warrior ( still some bad blood here after all these years?).
But have spit factories & p51's & f4u's & all those planes that are over popular. Factories would be down for 15 minutes with none of that plane type available for that period of time. Could even rotate the plane type factory.
Would make for some interesting fights over & near these factories & add another aspect to the game which is becoming increasingly stale & repatative.
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I love them all regardless of their "reputation". :aok
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Cessna 152 - nothing is more humiliating than being overtaken by a seagull. :mad:
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.....Also, the game play in MW is actually worse than the LW arena where hording undefended bases isn't just the norm, it's pretty much the only thing that happens.
ack-ack
With the exception of last night! Went in there last night to find a pretty even number of knight to rook fights! Had a nice fight with wwhiskey both of us in FM2's.
opps on topic: The trees need to go they outnumber players and have a huge kill to death ratio!
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Depends on who's in it. Most I could care less about.
Edit: I'd even go so far as to say the only person I consider a threat in it is Kazaa. There are three other to worry about but I don't have to worry about them cuz I know where they are when they're on.
:salute
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It ain't here yet but my vote goes to the B-29. I hope it is perked out of the reach of most or it will be yet another 4 engine Stuka that the wing don't break off of it in a dive.
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Really? Someone should have told the Bishops that last night at A27. They kept on bringing Brewsters at high altitude to pick the furball off A27 and each time the Brewsters died a fiery death without killing anyone. The impact of a Brewster in a furball is highly exaggerated to the point of being ridiculous.
ack-ack
Really? Can't see sarcasm?
I see you can exaggerate to the point of being ridiculous(bolded area)
:aok
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I cant believe all the brew hate.......that plane is just as easy to kill as any other hell its as easy to kill as the 16......both those planes are only dangerous when the driver knows his-her plane.....oh wait that goes for Every plane in the hanger.........bot for the sake of the thread.........I would get rid of the.......S......P........B.. ..nope cant think of one plane......now if you were to ask about players................:-)
I don't like the Brew because its easy for myself to rack up alot of kills in, I can get more in that then the K4 most times(depends on how the tators are flying).
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I don't like the Brew because its easy for myself to rack up alot of kills in, I can get more in that then the K4 most times(depends on how the tators are flying).
But your comparing apples to oranges.
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Really? Can't see sarcasm?
I see you can exaggerate to the point of being ridiculous(bolded area)
:aok
Don't try and back pedal and claim your posts whining about the "uber superiority" of the Brewster was anything remotely close to being sarcasm.
As for the part you bolded in, unlike your whines (yes, your "comments" about the Brewster is nothing more than a whine) about the "uber" Brewster, it is what happened when a small group of Bishops were trying to use Brewsters diving from high to pick the furball on the deck. They failed at it miserably, probably because they weren't very good pilots to begin with but that is an entirely different subject matter.
ack-ack
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I don't like the Brew because its easy for myself to rack up alot of kills in, I can get more in that then the K4 most times(depends on how the tators are flying).
Really? I thought you didn't like the Brewster because of the way WMaker slapped you around one day flying the Brewster. The thread you started after that one made no mention disliking the Brewster because you could "rack up a lot of kills in" but rather (again, from that thread) because you thought it was over modeled and didn't like the way WMaker was flying it.
In fact, I think this is the first time you actually mentioned you didn't like the Brewster because you can "rack up a lot of kills in" it.
:rofl
ack-ack
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Cessna 152 - nothing is more humiliating than being overtaken by a seagull. :mad:
Oh Batty,your to modest,tell the truth! you forced an overshoot and the seagull flew right into you sights... :rofl
:salute
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Don't try and back pedal and claim your posts whining about the "uber superiority" of the Brewster was anything remotely close to being sarcasm.
As for the part you bolded in, unlike your whines (yes, your "comments" about the Brewster is nothing more than a whine) about the "uber" Brewster, it is what happened when a small group of Bishops were trying to use Brewsters diving from high to pick the furball on the deck. They failed at it miserably, probably because they weren't very good pilots to begin with but that is an entirely different subject matter.
ack-ack
They weren't, I am just playing around on this thread. The only arguement I really have with the Brew I already made(its K/D) :devil
Not a single Kill though? At a k/D ratio of more then 1 I find that more then unlikely...must have been the pilots :aok
Really? I thought you didn't like the Brewster because of the way WMaker slapped you around one day flying the Brewster. The thread you started after that one made no mention disliking the Brewster because you could "rack up a lot of kills in" but rather (again, from that thread) because you thought it was over modeled and didn't like the way WMaker was flying it.
In fact, I think this is the first time you actually mentioned you didn't like the Brewster because you can "rack up a lot of kills in" it.
:rofl
ack-ack
I did't know Wmaker slapped me around in a Brew before.......thanks for letting me know. When was this put out? Never said Wmaker there guy, only seen Wmaker flying it once maybe.
But your comparing apples to oranges.
Not really, both Fighters in Aces High :D
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I would get rid of all the Spit Is. Man those things are everywhere. And they always use the "I fly it for its history" excuse.
Don't they know that the Spit XVI won the Battle of Britain. Jeez. :D
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replace the Spit XVI with the spit IX LFe
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Really? Someone should have told the Bishops that last night at A27. They kept on bringing Brewsters at high altitude to pick the furball off A27 and each time the Brewsters died a fiery death without killing anyone. The impact of a Brewster in a furball is highly exaggerated to the point of being ridiculous.
ack-ack
On the deck it can handle anything in the right hands.....and those hands are anyone that is 6 months ingame or longer. Take a poll...to argue that point is bordering on deef. I haven't flown it to compression yet, hangs on its prop like a zeke and turns better than a zeke or a 16. If you could see out of it better, you could barely stop the thing....does that sound like the kinda performance that the Allies would have sold/leased as used equipment??? OVERMODELED.
Changeup
PS - Grandfather flew 51B's 1943-45...93 years old today. I asked him about the Brewster...he remembered, and I quote, "That little ugly plane was the worst a/c development in the WW II era the way I remember it...for it to fly as you say it does makes me want to fly it and I know that cannot be right, lol"
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PS - Grandfather flew 51B's 1943-45...93 years old today. I asked him about the Brewster...he remembered, and I quote, "That little ugly plane was the worst a/c development in the WW II era the way I remember it...for it to fly as you say it does makes me want to fly it and I know that cannot be right, lol"
Well ours is the XLT package.
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On the deck it can handle anything in the right hands.....and those hands are anyone that is 6 months ingame or longer. Take a poll...to argue that point is bordering on deef. I haven't flown it to compression yet, hangs on its prop like a zeke and turns better than a zeke or a 16. If you could see out of it better, you could barely stop the thing....does that sound like the kinda performance that the Allies would have sold/leased as used equipment??? OVERMODELED.
Oh please, the only time anyone that isn't flying a Brewster is going to die is if they are stupid and try to turn with the Brewster. It doesn't hang on its prop like a Zeke, it's vertical performance is just average, not even above average. Hell, the P-38 has a far superior zoom capability and is an example of a plane that can hang on its props, not the Brewster B-239.
Of course it's going to turn better than a Zeke or a Spitfire Mk XVI, there is nothing that says it shouldn't. Maybe if people would actually spend some time reading about the planes and how they flew they wouldn't be so surprised by them when they encounter them in game.
This is a comment from Pappy Boyington about the early model Brewsters the USN and Marines flew. Keep in mind that he's talking about the Brewsters the US had, not the one that is modeled in game.
But the early models, before they weighed it all down with armor-plate, radios, and other [equipment], they were pretty sweet little ships. Not real fast, but the little [aircraft] could turn and roll in a phone booth."
Notice he said "before they weighed it all down"? That was the problem with the US Brewsters, not with the Model B-239.
Again with the complaints of it being over modeled and no one has been able to show how it is or even provide any data to back it up. All of those that cry the Brewster is over modeled and use examples of how it is stem from those players not knowing squat about the Brewster nor how to fight one or at the least what tactics one should use against the Brewster.
It all equates down to pilot skill, not the plane being over modeled. But player's egos will demand that they post that it's the plane that is over modeled and not that their skills are under modeled.
Changeup
PS - Grandfather flew 51B's 1943-45...93 years old today. I asked him about the Brewster...he remembered, and I quote, "That little ugly plane was the worst a/c development in the WW II era the way I remember it...for it to fly as you say it does makes me want to fly it and I know that cannot be right, lol"
Happy birthday to your grandfather but he's probably referring to the Brewster that saw service with the US, Royal Netherlands East Indies Army Air Force and Commonwealth countries, not the Model B-239 that the Finns used.
ack-ack
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The "Buffalo" was the Navy flunky and the B-239 was the "export" variant to all countries that bought them. Below is the official specs on the plane and the Finns added MORE weight with 50's instead of 30's, more ammo load and a steel plate behind the pilot. Check the date...these were NOT some improved version....:
http://koti.welho.com/myrjola/war/faf/brewster.html.
I am certain Gramps remembered it right...since the weight loadout changed very little after the CV equipment was uninstalled and replaced with the items listed below.
Acquisition to Finland
Finland bought 44 Brewster B-239s in 16th, December 1939, but they were received too late to see any combat during the Winter War. Unit price was 54 000 USD plus packing and delivery costs, also 10 spare engines, 20 propellers and other spare parts were purchased for a total sales price of 3.4 million dollars (168 million Finnish Marks). To the purchasers surprise all US Navy "property" were removed at the factory from the Brewsters bought by Finland: guns, sights, instruments and carrier equipment. Initially separately purchased Aldis-optical (binocular) sights were used, but in the spring of 1941 before reflector sights (Finnish Väisäla T.h.m.40 sights which were based on Revi 3c) were installed in the Finnish Brewsters. Metric instruments were installed in Finnish Brewsters.
The Finnish B-239 "export"-models were equipped with refurbished R-1820 G-5 engines taken from DC-3 airliners.
The B-239s were designated from BW-351 to BW-394. Read more information about Brewsters to Finland at the Fighter Tactics Academy web-site.
During the war the single 0.30" machine gun was replaced with a 0.50" (12.7mm) and in 1943 all except one Finnish B-239s had four 0.50" machine guns. The wing guns had 400 rounds and fuselage guns 200 rounds each (0.30" had 600 rounds).
Pilot seat armor was installed to Finnish Brewsters (important difference for pilot safety compared to F2A-1 and dictated by the Winter War experience). There was a lot of other little fixes, changes and improvements to the B-239 that were made locally in Finland during it's career.
Brewster B-239 specifications
Wingspan: 10.67 m
Length: 8.03 m
Height: 3.66 m
Wing area: 19.4 m2
Empty weight: 2020 kg
Typical takeoff weight: 2415 kg (with 300kg fuel)
Engine: 950 HP Wright Cyclone R-1820-G5.
1000 HP with War Emergency Power (for 5 mins max).
Armament: 3 x 0.50 cal + 1 x 0.30 cal.
Later 4 x 0.50 cal (12.7 mm) machine guns.
Max speed: 480 kmph(299mph, 261Kts) at 4750 (15,500ft) meters. 428 (266mph, 231kts) kmph at sea level.
Service ceiling: 9900 meters. Climb to 3000 meters 4 minutes 12 seconds, 5000 meters 7 minutes 10 seconds.
Range: 1350 km with 390 kmph cruise speed (full 600 liter fuel load), flight time 3 hours 30 minutes. Max flight time over 4 hours with lower speeds.
O V E R M O D E L E D
Maybe your next source shouldn't be wiki
Changeup
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A little more for you from some place other than Wiki...lol. If you want to become more educated about it, read the rest yourself. The F2A-3 was a BETTER variant than the B-239 and it got hammered in 1942...3 years AFTER the Finns bought the F2A-1, B-239. Ingame, the Brewster is NOT inferior to the zeke. Oh, one last thing Mr Researcher...England received F2A-2 (B-339E) planes for the squadrons in the Far-East, the plane was named as Buffalo by the British. Step by step the planes were destroyed in the battles and the few which survived were sent to Australia.
The Dutch East-Indian air force got B-339C and B-339D planes on Java, were they had little success, win to loss ratio was 2:1 for Brewsters. When the Japanese took over the area rest of the planes were sent to Australia. Wiki isn't right about 1/2 the time...
http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/events/wwii-pac/midway/mid-2.htm
Japanese Air Attack on Midway, 4 June 1942
At 0430 in the morning of 4 June 1942, while 240 miles northwest of Midway, Vice Admiral Chuichi Nagumo's four carriers began launching 108 planes to attack the U.S. base there. Unknown to the Japanese, three U.S. carriers were steaming 215 miles to the east. The two opposing fleets sent out search planes, the Americans to locate an enemy they knew was there and the Japanese as a matter of operational prudence. Seaplanes from Midway were also patrolling along the expected enemy course. One of these spotted, and reported, the Japanese carrier striking force at about 0530.
That seaplane also reported the incoming Japanese planes, and radar confirmed the approaching attack shortly thereafter. Midway launched its own planes. Navy, Marine and Army bombers headed off to attack the Japanese fleet. Midway's Marine Corps Fighting Squadron 221 (VMF-221) intercepted the enemy formation at about 0615. However, the Marines were immediately engaged by an overwhelming force of Japanese "Zero" fighters and were able to shoot down only a few of the enemy bombers, while suffering great losses themselves. This action convincingly demonstrated the inferiority of the Americans' Brewster F2A-3 "Buffalo" fighter, and the marginal capabilities of the somewhat better Grumman F4F "Wildcat", when confronted by the fast and nimble "Zero". Among the Marine losses was VMF-221's commanding officer, Major Floyd B. Parks.
O V E R M O D E L E D
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replace the Spit XVI with the spit IX LFe
isnt this what we already have but they just called it a 16 instead? i remember a very long conversation about this but i dont remember what was correct :headscratch:
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D-11 will OWNS the brew :aok
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D-11 will OWNS the brew :aok
LMAO!!! You are THE man in the Jug...
Changeup
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What would it be?
We need more planes not less. I would encourage folks to get outside their comfort rides and mix it up.
BTW, The plane I that gives me fits, all things being equal, is the Ki-84.
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<snipped>
O V E R M O D E L E D
Again, if it helps players soothe their ego to claim that they thoroughly out flown by an obsolete early war plane is over modeled so be it.
If you want to learn about the Brewster in Finnish service, and how performance wise was better than the versions that saw service in the Dutch East Indies AF, Commonwealth AF's and US these are some excellent articles. The main site also has other great articles about the Brewster that were in the other Allied air forces. The side belongs to Daniel Ford, author and sometimes writer for magazines such as Air & Space / Smithsonian magazine. He wrote an article about the Brewster 15 years ago and during that time he's found new information, in particular the Brewster's service with the Finns and added the info to his website. Very interesting reading if you want to learn something, or you can keep complaining how the Brewster is overmodeled when one shoots you down.
Annals of the Brewster Buffalo (http://www.warbirdforum.com/buff.htm)
Unfortunately, I can't find the link for another site and maybe Wmaker can post it but it's a site where I think one of Wmaker's squadron mate either runs or writes for. Anyway, the site is chalk full of information on the planes that serviced in the Finnish air force, through technical data and pilot interviews. Lots of information on the Brewster on that site. Like I said, no one has yet been able to show any data that proves the Finnish Brewster we have is over modeled, I wonder why that is?
ack-ack
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the tempest.
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lol the brew is............, damn AK-AK I guess we have to agree on something, actually I think we agree on quite a bit, but you do sound condasending and harsh, diddnt like ya before, but I have come to realize we would probably get along quite well in RL, that day I bounced you twice in my hurri you never ran your mouth or whined or came to BBS complaining about the over modeled Hurri, since then I see ya in a new light.......if ya dont remember that day I am JETSOM ingame...at least I think I was that day...lol coulda been MORTIS if ya do remember....i diddnt talk smack about it. anyways been wantin to say that to ya since then, nows a good time as any.....dont leave the game dood, I read where your thinking about it, screw that, ill be back very soon and we can go hourd hunting hell ill even fly that bomber u love so damn much...dont let them browbeat ya into leaving. youll get withdrawels like I am going through and Ranger's offline mission's awesome as they are, just dont quite give ya the fix.......
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:rofl
Just because one shoots you down doesn't mean it's over modeled.
ack-ack
This is true :joystick:
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b-29
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Changeup,
The B-239 was not the export model to all those countries. The only nation to get B-239s was Finland. As I recall, the Commonwealth got B-339Es, the Dutch got B-339s which were a bit lighter than the 339Es but still not as light as the 239s by any means.
Also, the A6M2 will out turn the B-239, just not my much. The B-239 does out turn the A6M5, but the A6M5 has far superior vertical performance and speed.
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isnt this what we already have but they just called it a 16 instead? i remember a very long conversation about this but i dont remember what was correct :headscratch:
Pssst it was a joke.......
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Changeup,
The B-239 was not the export model to all those countries. The only nation to get B-239s was Finland. As I recall, the Commonwealth got B-339Es, the Dutch got B-339s which were a bit lighter than the 339Es but still not as light as the 239s by any means.
Also, the A6M2 will out turn the B-239, just not my much. The B-239 does out turn the A6M5, but the A6M5 has far superior vertical performance and speed.
Karnak,
Read my second post it explains it better....note the time difference too. It was Ack Ack that claimed those countries received the 239's, not I...I outlined EXACTLY what you typed.......and according to the AH wiki material, your turning information is incorrect along with a few guys that are zeke drivers (and Brew drivers) that I have asked, in game. Now, that is just their opinion but it seems to be AH opinion as well.
Changeup
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Karnak,
It was Ack Ack that claimed those countries received the 239's, not I...I .
Changeup
In your crusade to prove me wrong, you unfortunately didn't read my post very carefully. I never claimed any country other than Finland used the Model B-239. This is my quote from the last post. Please read it carefully this time.
If you want to learn about the Brewster in Finnish service, and how performance wise was better than the versions that saw service in the Dutch East Indies AF, Commonwealth AF's and US these are some excellent articles.
Enjoy.
ack-ack
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On the deck it can handle anything in the right hands.....and those hands are anyone that is 6 months ingame or longer. Take a poll...to argue that point is bordering on deef. I haven't flown it to compression yet, hangs on its prop like a zeke and turns better than a zeke or a 16. If you could see out of it better, you could barely stop the thing....does that sound like the kinda performance that the Allies would have sold/leased as used equipment??? OVERMODELED.
I don't think the Brew is overmodeled, with that said the damn thing is quite easy to fly indeed! very very very easy! IMO :aok :airplane:
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the dive seems to be overly impressive in the brew! other than that, i could not say,, but don't get under it and slow!
My choice would be the spits,, just because there seems to be soooooo many!
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Pssst it was a joke.......
:bolt:
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Changeup,
Nothing you've posted in this thread proves that Brewster is overmodelled.
In AH:
- The weight is correct
- Top speeds are correct
- Climb rate is correct
...looking it from the aerodynamical/physics point of view, with those things above being correct, there's very little that can be wrong.
It seems that your lack of understanding of what were actually important fighter performance characteristics in the real war, makes you draw wrong conclusions. Aces High MA action doesn't really resemble real war.
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Again, if it helps players soothe their ego to claim that they thoroughly out flown by an obsolete early war plane is over modeled so be it.
If you want to learn about the Brewster in Finnish service, and how performance wise was better than the versions that saw service in the Dutch East Indies AF, Commonwealth AF's and US these are some excellent articles. ack-ack
Ack
Yes, you are correct...you indicated that the Fins received a better version than the other countries, which is wrong, as listed in my prior post. The other countries received the 339's, more engine, more refinements.
I haven't found the documentation of what the Finn's changed, which could be substantial, when they went on producing them on their own. My point is fairly simple....it flies its fight radius better than any a/c in the game, extends that radius with its negative vertical, uncompressable dive ability, holds its E, arguably as well as some other late war heavier a/c on the way back up.....in game. To me, that doesn't sound like the kind of a/c the US would have wanted to get rid of during the war. I understand that is an opinion and I am not a pilot but it sure sounds like if the Zeke is modeled correctly in game, with the same pilot flying against himself, it loses against the Brew co alt, co E everytime. Why? the Brew can just dive the Zeke into compression and then have his way with him. If the Zeke doesnt follow, the Brew extends, turns and gets it on all over again.
Ack - I never said to be stupid and try to turn with it...I understand everyone's flying/fighting style is different...there are a lot of pilots in game that take their F4U's on the deck with a Brew or their Spit variants etc etc...you choose to BnZ Brews as you should in that 38 you fly. Whether someone decides to stay on the deck with a Brew is immaterial to the overmodeled argument.
By the accounts I've read, the US trashed the Brew early for performance reasons right? If it performed real world as it does in game, I would have wanted one!!! lol I would like to see the same kind of dive charts as we have for climb charts, from a source that is credible...just out of curiousity. Did it compress in the real world or not? Speed limitations? etc etc. Until then, no one can say it isn't truly overmodeled. Modeled as close to the real as the other planes in this game??? Probably so I guess.
Changeup
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Yes, you are correct...you indicated that the Fins received a better version than the other countries, which is wrong, as listed in my prior post. The other countries received the 339's, more engine, more refinements.
It isn't as simple as that. I suggest you do some reading on the differences of these variants.
I haven't found the documentation of what the Finn's changed, which could be substantial, when they went on producing them on their own.
Finns made exactly one prototype of "a Brewster clone" they were looking to produce. That plan was scrapped. Finns didn't produce any Brewsters, they bought them. Except for the pilot armor and that .30 cal replaced by a .50...nothing was changed that is of any concern in AH.
My point is fairly simple....it flies its fight radius better than any a/c in the game,
If you mean that it has the smallest turn radius in the game, you are wrong.
extends that radius with its negative vertical, uncompressable dive ability, holds its E, arguably as well as some other late war heavier a/c on the way back up.....in game.
Until you produce some proper results from in-game testing, the above is just your subjective opinion and therefore utterly meaningless.
To me, that doesn't sound like the kind of a/c the US would have wanted to get rid of during the war. I understand that is an opinion and I am not a pilot but it sure sounds like if the Zeke is modeled correctly in game, with the same pilot flying against himself, it loses against the Brew co alt, co E everytime. Why? the Brew can just dive the Zeke into compression and then have his way with him. If the Zeke doesnt follow, the Brew extends, turns and gets it on all over again.
Zero's high control forces and Brewster's light control forces at high speeds are both well documented facts.
By the accounts I've read, the US trashed the Brew early for performance reasons right?
Not nearly as simple as that, I suggest you do more reading on the subject.
If it performed real world as it does in game, I would have wanted one!!! lol I would like to see the same kind of dive charts as we have for climb charts, from a source that is credible...just out of curiousity. Did it compress in the real world or not? Speed limitations? etc etc. Until then, no one can say it isn't truly overmodeled.
You've got it backwards here. It is up to you to prove that it is overmodelled if you claim so, not the other way around. HTC doesn't get their flight models out of thin air.
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Geezus....I get it...you love the Brewster but "its not as simple as that" is not a defense or answer...just saying :aok
I have read more in the last day and a half about this aircraft than I care to. I suggest you argue with the sites and sources that I read...not me. I posted them, you read them.
Two internet (must be right, right? lol) sited some production of the 239...that sure could have been wrong.
No, fight radius is not turn radius. Fight radius is the a/c area of influence to conduct combat effectively. The brew's fight radius is smaller than say the 51 horizontally and vertically because the 51 is faster (read: E fighter). However, should the 51 slow down and enter the Brew's fight radius and try to operate effectively...it might for two/three turns and one or two vertical movements....if it chooses to stay in that fight radius, it will die, lol.
Dive ability should not be proven IN GAME....that would create a false model therefore COMPLETELY RELEVENT. You don't test something in a computer environment when a real environment once existed. You take the real life environment and tell the software to act-like-that. I am NO PROGRAMMER....after talking with several, that is how they say it is done, but they could be lying to me I suppose.
As I said, you don't get to argue with what I read about why the Brew was dropped, lol. Now you're telling me what I read or that because I didn't read what you read, what you read is more important or more true than what I read??? That's just stupid and lacks any debate ability.
I don't have to prove anything...that's why its called an opinion. You all think it is a fairly modeled a/c...I don't think all of its real characteristics have been incorporated into the game. In as much as I make the claim that its overmodeled, to argue that point effectively, you need to provide some proof that it isn't. WHat I have proved so far is that one dimension of its vertical performance has been shown...should its dive characteristics show up somewhere, from a credible source, I will STAND CORRECTED. See, unlike a number of people on this board, I have NO ISSUE with admitting I'm wrong. HTC has nothing to do with it...if they are modeling it based on their knowledge of the flight characteristics, they probably got them from public sources too. I have searched a lot of sources and even ordered two books out of curiousity which is RIDICULOUS for me to spend time doing...however, there are enough good folks in this game, you included, that might benefit from my "wrongness" or "rightness".
If there is a n aeronautical engineering formula that details the reasons why the Brew wont compress, such as how Bernoulli's Law affects flight surfaces as speed increases over small or large surface areas, again, I will 100% say I was wrong.
Changeup
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No, fight radius is not turn radius. Fight radius is the a/c area of influence to conduct combat effectively. The brew's fight radius is smaller than say the 51 horizontally and vertically because the 51 is faster (read: E fighter). However, should the 51 slow down and enter the Brew's fight radius and try to operate effectively...it might for two/three turns and one or two vertical movements....if it chooses to stay in that fight radius, it will die, lol.
Exactly. The pony driver has the absolutely ability to dictate the terms of the fight. If he hands that decision to the Brew pilot and allows him to fight the fight on the terms most favorable to his plane, the Brew is dangerous. Otherwise, it isn't. But that's a far cry from saying a Brewster can dominate or change the whole dynamics of a fight the way a 262 can.
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Geezus....I get it...you love the Brewster but "its not as simple as that" is not a defense or answer...just saying :aok
The thing is that all this has been gone over on this BBS before and I'm not going to waste my time replying to something which you can/should figure out yourself. Until you can produce something quatifyable evidence that there's something wrong with the Brewster, there's really nothing to comment.
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The thing is that all this has been gone over on this BBS before and I'm not going to waste my time replying to something which you can/should figure out yourself. Until you can produce something quatifyable evidence that there's something wrong with the Brewster, there's really nothing to comment.
That answer is no surprise.....but I will attempt to do that very thing. In the absence of any proof you may have of the Brews ability to NOT compress noticeably in reality, not in online gameworld, I would say that this topic is a statemate to be decided later...no proof is no proof either way.
Changeup
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In the absence of any proof you may have of the Brews ability to NOT compress noticeably in reality, not in online gameworld, I would say that this topic is a statemate to be decided later...no proof is no proof either way.
I actually have plenty of proof of the fact that Brewster could be taken to relatively high mach numbers and of the fact that the controls remained light through out the plane's speed range. But I really don't feel the need to post any until you do some ingame testing and research for real world data to which you can compare your ingame findings.
Hint: NACA did high speed dive research using F2A-3, you might want to start there. B239 and F2A-3 share their geometry very closely and both planes use the same airfoils.
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I actually have plenty of proof of the fact that Brewster could be taken to relatively high mach numbers and of the fact that the controls remained light through out the plane's speed range. But I really don't feel the need to post any until you do some ingame testing and research for real world data to which you can compare your ingame findings.
Hint: NACA did high speed dive research using F2A-3, you might want to start there. B239 and F2A-3 share their geometry very closely and both planes use the same airfoils.
Why doesn't that surprise me either...you have proof but you don't want to post it......you want me to do the work for you. I'm not interested in addressing your control issues. Let me be more clear....the game flight models are designed around how a/c performed in use. If you have it, post it....if not, my opinion stands as there is no proof. I found a site today that is Finn based and has what looks like is a good amount of historical and fact based data. When our Finnish VP of Operations is in town for his quarterly review, I will ask him to translate it for me.
Both planes don't share the same weight or engines and according to my research, don't share the same engine cowling either. But I will post that when you do some in game research.
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B-29s & P-51s. I would like to smash them together over & over into lil' bitty pieces!!
(http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/7139/brushgirl7im.gif) (http://img252.imageshack.us/i/brushgirl7im.gif/)
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Why doesn't that surprise me either...you have proof but you don't want to post it......
I believe Wmaker has already posted this information and far more, just search the forums for it.
ack-ack
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its gotta be the 190 for me. If aint hoin me its runnin from me. The spits i know i have an advantage over the brews i rarely see those lol. 109s are like spits to me
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its gotta be the 190 for me. If aint hoin me its runnin from me. The spits i know i have an advantage over the brews i rarely see those lol. 109s are like spits to me
That's there first defensive tactic for most (not all), run90's and runstangs
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I believe Wmaker has already posted this information and far more, just search the forums for it.
He has. Changeup, this has been a much-discussed issue. Check the threads from about a year ago.
- oldman
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That's there first defensive tactic for most (not all), run90's and runstangs
by runstang you mean anyone who cant fly it right? :rofl
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id get rid of those d3a's and those unstoppable b5n's!
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Why doesn't that surprise me either...you have proof but you don't want to post it......you want me to do the work for you. I'm not interested in addressing your control issues. Let me be more clear....the game flight models are designed around how a/c performed in use. If you have it, post it....if not, my opinion stands as there is no proof. I found a site today that is Finn based and has what looks like is a good amount of historical and fact based data. When our Finnish VP of Operations is in town for his quarterly review, I will ask him to translate it for me.
Both planes don't share the same weight or engines and according to my research, don't share the same engine cowling either. But I will post that when you do some in game research.
:huh
It is you who is shouting in caps that the plane is overmodelled. With that kind of attitude you better have some proof to back up this claim of yours. It is innocent until proven guilty, not the other way around. I already have all the stuff I mentioned, HTC has it too.
You are just totally unable to grasp the basic concept here. There's plenty of proof, it's just that you haven't seen it. Of course I could post data here but part of it is something I'm not going to post to public for several reasons. Part of it I could post but your attitude is such that I don't really feel like it. HTC has the data and that is basically all that matters.
Remember, I'm not making any claims here so it is not me who has to prove something. It is you who was screaming "O V E R M O D E L L E D". At that point it is your job to prove that it is so.
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He has. Changeup, this has been a much-discussed issue. Check the threads from about a year ago.
- oldman
Will do...thanks
Changeup
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I would get rid of the JUG, it's just way too fat and is a drain on the medical system :aok
JUGgler