Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: TWC_Jaxx on December 14, 2010, 02:25:10 PM
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Anyone have any good films of P51s in action? Trying to learn the subtle points of flying the P51 without constantly relying on its ability to run.
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Its not called running. Its called extending and resetting for advantage :airplane:
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I'd like to see a P-51 compilation also if anyone has it.
Ehrler
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Its not called running. Its called extending and resetting for advantage :airplane:
+1 :aok
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Its not called running. Its called extending and resetting for advantage :airplane:
They did it in the war. ;)
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I've erased all mine but you can get some really good films off out some of the 412th Braunco Mustang guys. You might also want to check out their website. ScatSr, dTango and Midnight films would be the most help I think.
Also Niros has a lot on YouTube. Not sure what squad he's in though. You might want to talk to RedTop in the 71st or CoprHead. Steve may have some good films still but you'll probably have to PM him here on the BBS, as I think he's inactive right now.
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Its not called running. Its called extending and resetting for advantage :airplane:
It sounds like the OP is growing tired of feeling compelled to do that.
Uptown had good advice. Also, try searching for posts by "spatula" and clicking the links in his signature... I believe he has a good write up of the mustang on his website.
Finally, don't be afraid to drag better sticks into the DA for some serious stick time in the stang. This will help more than anything else.
:salute
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Thanks for all the comments. I've seen some guys do some amazing things in the Mustang and I have been working in the TA and DA over the last few weeks just trying to learn as much as possible. It has helped, but still looking for any nuggets of wisdom gained by more seasoned sticks.
I'll check out the Mustang squad website again, but I think the film links are broken.
Thanks!
:aok
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Jaxx,
do a search for a player named Steve,ya real original but despite that he's a good 51 pilot,there's several others but you've already been directed to them!
I'm not sure Steve posted any films but it's worth alook anyways.
:salute
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The P-51 is an average plane at best. If you want to get more successful in the Mustang then you need to learn to think beyond just the raw performance of the airplane. There in lies the secret. Here's my 1st law of air combat at no charge :) -
1) There are no absolutes in air combat; it's all relative
Want do I mean by that? Visit this thread:
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,241877.msg2950355.html#msg2950355
Thinking beyond airplane raw performance is key. It's all about getting inside your adversary's decision loop and factoring more than raw performance of the airplane to do so. Knowing how to exploit what relative differences in speeds, altitudes, & angles is important. For instance the basic question of which way do you turn throughout an engagement seems like a really simple decision. But that choice of even the direction of the first turn can determine if you win or lose an engagement. What do I mean by all this? Here is some write up and films to demonstrate:
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,253819.0.html
The films included are flown with the P-51. It would be a mistake however to treat the films as "how to fly the P-51". If you think that way then you've already painted yourself into a box.
Hope that helps!
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The P-51 is an average plane at best.
Good write up! However, I disagree that the Mustang is an average plane at best. Maybe as modeled here in AH2 it is (I don't think so though) but history shows us that the Mustang was the pinnacle of what propeller driven fighters could achieve. I agree with you that its always comes down to the pilot but history proves that the pony was indeed the cadillac of the sky.
I've heard interviews with WW2 Mustang pilots say that while flying the pony, they felt nothing could touch them. When seeing a formation of German fighters, Mustang pilots got excited much like kids on Christmas morning. That is to say, flying the pony gave them confidence to relish an engagement with enemy fighters versus filling them with a sense of dread or anxiety.
At best, the pony was technology which reached the very limit of its capabilities and could very little be improved without completely leap frogging forward to say... Jet engines.
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The type of virtual air war we have in AH vs. the actual air war in the ETO is completely different. Most of the factors (not all of them airplane raw performance related) that made the P-51 shine in the ETO are inconsequential in AH. Based on raw plane performance the P-51 is average in AH.
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Wow! Some great threads there Tango. Exactly what I was looking for.
While I did get the kill in this film, it was only becasue the Ki was outnumbered. Would love any critique. I've been trying to get more aggressive in situations like these and having some limited success.
http://www.mediafire.com/?9ph7fjr94gcgw8h
Let me know if the link has problems.. first time posting here. :x
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To me, the hit on the KI was just a pick. Don't get me wrong, it was a good pick :devil You never did re engage him. You pulled him along for your buddies and once he got tied up with them you went back. It really wasn't much of a fight.
Personally the most I would have done is made the one pass like you did and then move on someplace else. There were far too many friendlies around for you to try and push yourself in a fight with the pony. I'm no super jock, but I like flying the pony. I don't have many films as I clear them out weekly, but I have this one you can look at.
http://myfreefilehosting.com/f/a9b8304986_1.15MB (http://myfreefilehosting.com/f/a9b8304986_1.15MB)
It starts in the middle of a fight. The 190 and I had started up higher, but now we are on the deck and I get some help. By the time we finish him off we get too close and the enemy has us a bit out numbered. A 109 comes after me. What I want you to see is the pony can be maneuvered a lot and still fight. Don't be afraid to push it. A 109 should out maneuver a pony, but in this case it doesn't. Excuse my poor aim, it is the cross I must carry :D
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Well I seen a few things that I would have done different. First I would have nailed that Hurricane that was just floating there in front on you :lol. It seemed like you was unsure of what target to go after. My rule when engaging a better turning plane such as your Hurri or KI is to stay faster and higher then them and always try to get in the position to catch then at the top of their loop or in a turn. Because turning is what they do, you'll need to yoyo against these guys cutting inside their turns but at the same time staying faster then them.
As soon as I seen the KI was going up I would have too. You don't want that KI on top of you coming down because he's going to be hell to shake if he saddles up.
2nd is you when did get under the KI you pulled up into a headon situation. NOT GOOD. He has cannons and you collided no top of that. Once the KI started to climb I would have been trying to judge his state of E and catch him at the top when he was about to stall and then pop him. The worse case scenario is you'd miss the shot and he'd just drop down below you, leaving you on top with the advantage of alt and speed.
Both the KI and Hurricane will eat a 51 up in a turn fight so to be successful against one of them you have to use the 51s speed against them. Slashing attacks and keeping them pinned down and turning. Don't be predictable in your attacks as they'll be able to guess your next move and turn for the Ho shot.
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Thanks for both comments! I know the fight wasnt that exciting, but appreciate the feedback. :salute
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To me, the hit on the KI was just a pick. Don't get me wrong, it was a good pick :devil You never did re engage him. You pulled him along for your buddies and once he got tied up with them you went back. It really wasn't much of a fight.
That is one of my issues with the Pony... it seems that the majority of kills are really just picks. That works when you are in a supporting as cover for an attack element, but that's about all I can do with it. There really doesnt seem to be many times where I've felt like my skills have much of a contribution to the kill.
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If you have more then a half tank of fuel, keep your speed up.
http://www.mediafire.com/?58r96g396rlgi8e (http://www.mediafire.com/?58r96g396rlgi8e)
Rash
PS, wrong file, go to about the 11 minute mark.
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That is one of my issues with the Pony... it seems that the majority of kills are really just picks. That works when you are in a supporting as cover for an attack element, but that's about all I can do with it. There really doesnt seem to be many times where I've felt like my skills have much of a contribution to the kill.
The P51 excells at speed. a pick is considered by many as shooting an enemy that is engaged. others see this as helping a fellow member out. So "picking" may not be the best word for it. P51s also do very well with flaps. one or two notches can really pull a tighter corner to get that annoying plane just out of your gunsight but dont feel uneasy about kicking full flaps in some situations. It may feel awkward fighting at low alts also but it is doable. i have killed many a foe who believed that a low pony = easy kill.
The 51 also does well if you maintain E by going vertical at times while on the deck. say after you shoot at a zeke low on the deck, you then pass by pull up and aim for your next target before coming back down (dont hang yourself unless you are safe or maybe a picker will come in and rip your wing off) etc. SA is also very much needed in these situations as you ARE in a vulnerable situation in a P51 low. It IS all relative to the situation of course.
P.S. The 51 has some quirky maneuvers that if you learn, will save your life many times. I had an I-16 and a KI-84 call for help while they were both on my six by pulling one of said maneuvers. The 84 ended up being shot up in the end. Dont be afraid to overuse elevator in extreme situations creating gyros and flatspins (and when i say extreme i mean extreme or you WILL most likely die).
Also like i said. SA is needed in general. Good SA=Longer lasting sorties. SA+ACM= many kills and quite possibly landing with them.
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Thanks for the comments and posts! I am starting to get a little better but it just takes time. The Vid below was from last night and even though I died, it was the "funnest" fight of the night.
To set the scene... Bish were outnumbered 10-1 at the base I was trying to defend and I decided to extend to see if I could drag one out with me. Instead I dragged two 51s. I could have kept running at the point I started the vid, but I saw this as a great chance to get some practice turning in the Pony.
After viewing the film, I saw a number of obvious mistakes to include wasting my initial advantage with a bad first move. I got lucky a few times, but finally died when the 51 spins.
Would love any comments or suggestions. :salute
http://www.mediafire.com/file/nk9u6y46u3dlxbg/Pony%20Duel-%202v1.ahf
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If you have more then a half tank of fuel, keep your speed up.
http://www.mediafire.com/?58r96g396rlgi8e (http://www.mediafire.com/?58r96g396rlgi8e)
Rash
PS, wrong file, go to about the 11 minute mark.
Great Vid Rash! Gonna watch that one about 10 times!
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Was there a glitch in Rash's film or can you now switch to f3 mode in the main??
I thought the film was long but Rash did say go to 11 min. At 1 min it still was not exciting IMO. his first kill died in ack and his second Itunes crashed then he chased a 51 back to his base and ran for it since there were so many rooks upping to defend the town.
STEVE made the best 51 vids........Anyone have any to post?