Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: CHAPPY on January 05, 2011, 07:31:46 PM
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http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703808704576061674166905408.html?mod=yhoofront
(http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm228/texashogleg/OB-LP807_cjetli_G_20110104224324.jpg)
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So this is what that red-head and her cohorts were up to.
I thought spying only happened in AH.
Or maybe someone at the Pentagon gave it all away on 200.
I wonder if it's covered in lead paint.
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So this is what that red-head and her cohorts were up to.
Uh, that's Chinese, Melvin.
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LOL I realized that after I posted. Hence the lead paint comment.
I figured on leaving it up because they're all RED in my eyes. :rofl
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eerie similar to the YF-23 contester
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eerie similar to the YF-23 contester
My first thought as well.
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http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703808704576061674166905408.html?mod=yhoofront
(http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm228/texashogleg/OB-LP807_cjetli_G_20110104224324.jpg)
same angles...
(http://sportscarforums.com/gallery/data/743/yf23_face.jpg)
(http://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/imgs/northrop-yf23-blackwidow2_11.jpg)
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same angles...
(http://sportscarforums.com/gallery/data/743/yf23_face.jpg)
(http://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/imgs/northrop-yf23-blackwidow2_11.jpg)
We still have them beat :)
(http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab110/jojopowers21/F-35.jpg)
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We will always have them beat :aok
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qn9xzP_Ew_A
Edit: even sexier :aok http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ktxe35uEEDc&feature=related
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more intruiging photos :eek:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDV0b5ODlHM&annotation_id=annotation_180082&feature=iv
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It looks even less like the YF-23 than the F-22 IMO...
Either way, all modern jets look the same (ugly)
Except for those русский ones...
(http://www.flymig.com/aircraft/Su-47/14.jpg)
We still have them beat :)
(http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab110/jojopowers21/F-35.jpg)
Is the F-35 capable of defeating Soviet-era aircraft in an air-to-air engagement?
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Most obvious problem this plane will suffer is likely very low performing engines. They haven't quite figured that out yet.
Boo
Loose Deuce
Gruppe III/ JG54
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That original posters plane bears little resemblance to the YF-23 other than a maybe a few basic angles. The inlets are closer to the F-22, as is twin the vertical tail and nose chin. The YF-23 had no redundant flight control surfaces, the Chinese plane has several. Neither the YF-23 or the F-22 have front canards, for good reasons safety and engineering wise.
Sorry but they are alike only in the fact that they both fly (oh wait perhaps not) and have a twin engine twin tail arrangement.
Strip
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same as the russian "stealth" fighter.
"we cut corners in safety and reliability to lower cost and improve production numbers"
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We still have them beat :)
(http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab110/jojopowers21/F-35.jpg)
Everything I've seen about the F-35 is that she's a significant step backwards from the F-22.
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Everything I've seen about the F-35 is that she's a significant step backwards from the F-22.
But she's VTOL, that MUST be good enough right!? :joystick:
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Everything I've seen about the F-35 is that she's a significant step backwards from the F-22.
the only benefit i see from the F-35 is that they will be able to be mass-produced, and that they can be deployed much closer and much more rapidly to the front than other fighters
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I saw that tonight on NBC News...that is one monster of an aircraft...size wise!
That thing looks like it is bigger than the F-22 and closer in size to something like an F-111.
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You guys are pretty much all missing the point.
1. The Russian fighter is obviously a stealthy deep strike aircraft. It's freaking huge (F-111 size) with large internal weapons bays. If used as a pure fighter it can probably carry double the missile loadout of an F-22, triple or quadruple what an F-35 can carry.
2. The F-22 is an air dominance fighter with no compromises, but because of stealth it can't be modded to an A/G workhorse like the F-15D became the strike eagle. Comparisons to the F-22 and this new Chinese fighter are like comparing an F-15 to an F-111.
3. The F-35 is a stealthy viper with better information integration software. Those systems can be put in ANY future aircraft and are true advances, but the plane itself is little more than a stealthy F-16. The F-35 is gonna suck at air superiority and it doesn't have the range or payload to replace the F-15E. It is also only front aspect stealthy, so anything left alive after the strike is over will take a shot at the retreating F-35s after they drop their 2 bombs and run out of gas, because they are not rear-aspect stealthy.
This Chinese fighter is something the US wishes it had the money and balls to produce, a stealthy deep strike fighter to be the true successor of the F-111, F-15E, and B-58 hustler. It would be a massive game changer as a strategic deterrent for the US against any potential adversaries, and could actually potentially save trillions of dollars since it could allow us to reduce deterrent commitments elsewhere and act as a deterrent we might actually use against any smaller high-threat country that doesn't quite deserve nuking. But we're not going to make one, even though the concept was pretty fully worked out with the "stretch" F-22 proposals.
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You guys are pretty much all missing the point.
1. The Russian fighter is obviously a stealthy deep strike aircraft. It's freaking huge (F-111 size) with large internal weapons bays. If used as a pure fighter it can probably carry double the missile loadout of an F-22, triple or quadruple what an F-35 can carry.
2. The F-22 is an air dominance fighter with no compromises, but because of stealth it can't be modded to an A/G workhorse like the F-15D became the strike eagle. Comparisons to the F-22 and this new Chinese fighter are like comparing an F-15 to an F-111.
3. The F-35 is a stealthy viper with better information integration software. Those systems can be put in ANY future aircraft and are true advances, but the plane itself is little more than a stealthy F-16. The F-35 is gonna suck at air superiority and it doesn't have the range or payload to replace the F-15E. It is also only front aspect stealthy, so anything left alive after the strike is over will take a shot at the retreating F-35s after they drop their 2 bombs and run out of gas, because they are not rear-aspect stealthy.
This Chinese fighter is something the US wishes it had the money and balls to produce, a stealthy deep strike fighter to be the true successor of the F-111, F-15E, and B-58 hustler. It would be a massive game changer as a strategic deterrent for the US against any potential adversaries, and could actually potentially save trillions of dollars since it could allow us to reduce deterrent commitments elsewhere and act as a deterrent we might actually use against any smaller high-threat country that doesn't quite deserve nuking. But we're not going to make one, even though the concept was pretty fully worked out with the "stretch" F-22 proposals.
(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f385/xxREXxx_01/F22motivationalposter-1.jpg)
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Is anybody here aware of the Dutch TV's NOVA documentary about the F-35? You should maybe watch it if your desire for objectivity outweighs your need to feel superior / dominant.
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Eagl has spoken Tyrannis. And his word is good enough for me.
And all the talk you Americans have about Russian fighter jets is a load of nonsense, almost everyone on this board calls Sukhois and Migs "Ejector seat testers" or "USAF target drones". Its well known that in the F-22 and F-15's case they are BVR fighters, whereas Russian fighters are interceptors and dogfighters. Its like comparing a P-51 to a Zero, long range BnZer vs a carrier based turnfighter.
Eagl here, who was an actual F-15 pilot mentioned this in another thread. The conclusion was that the Sukhoi has a far greater turn radius and short range combat capability than anything in service in the USAF. The F-22's post stall technology narrowed the margin but the F-22 is a big heavy aircraft whose advantage lies in being stealthy and striking first, not engaging in close combat.
I think that this threat must be met with the greatest developments in aerial warfare since the cold war. The last time the US didnt take the Eastern powers seriously they ended up rushing an ASF in panic (F-15 A).
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Everything I've seen about the F-35 is that she's a significant step backwards from the F-22.
Stalin once said...
Quantity is a quality all on its own.
and he was right.. the Germans had the best tanks, but they were too complicated to build quickly and in large numbers... the Russians and Americans made huge hordes of tanks, none of which were as 'advanced' as the German tanks but it didn't matter.
I remember hearing somewhere that it took 4 Shermans to take out a tigerII tank, 3 to die and one to shoot it in the back while it was killing the other three.
...and long as there more than a 4-1 ratio, the Shermans still win the battle.
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How stealthy is it really? It has some stealth features (ie. scalloped edges on doors et.c.) but the over all look appears to be too "Straight." IIRC the reason the F22 and the B2 are so rounded and loopy is because they can't have any continuous curves so all curves must have a constantly changing radius or, the weird faceted look of the F117.\\
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The F-35 was designed as a replacement for the Harrier. The plans for US mass production was scrapped due to the fact that it did not meet any of the US requirements. The F-35 is still a formidable aircraft in its own right but will never be an air to air fighter. It will be an electronic counter measure/part stealth assault aircraft that along with fighter protection will be able to do its job. Remember that its ECM unit will be able to make up for the lack of stealth on the F-35. It will also be able to be mass produced cheaper than the F-22.
Also. The Russian and Chinese 5th Gen fighters are considered to be stealthy. This all comes down to the radar sbsorbant material used in their construction. Both countries have lagged in all tech advancements compared to NATO style units. You really think these fighters have stealth yet because both countries government say they do? :lol
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Eagl has spoken Tyrannis. And his word is good enough for me.
And all the talk you Americans have about Russian fighter jets is a load of nonsense, almost everyone on this board calls Sukhois and Migs "Ejector seat testers" or "USAF target drones". Its well known that in the F-22 and F-15's case they are BVR fighters, whereas Russian fighters are interceptors and dogfighters. Its like comparing a P-51 to a Zero, long range BnZer vs a carrier based turnfighter.
Eagl here, who was an actual F-15 pilot mentioned this in another thread. The conclusion was that the Sukhoi has a far greater turn radius and short range combat capability than anything in service in the USAF. The F-22's post stall technology narrowed the margin but the F-22 is a big heavy aircraft whose advantage lies in being stealthy and striking first, not engaging in close combat.
I think that this threat must be met with the greatest developments in aerial warfare since the cold war. The last time the US didnt take the Eastern powers seriously they ended up rushing an ASF in panic (F-15 A).
curious little fact: the f15 was the first ever american fighter to be designed with maneuverability in mind.
if i had the choice to create my own airforce, i would have american planes, with isreali pilots. now thats an airforce that would make any country shudder.
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The F-35 was designed as a replacement for the Harrier. The plans for US mass production was scrapped due to the fact that it did not meet any of the US requirements. The F-35 is still a formidable aircraft in its own right but will never be an air to air fighter. It will be an electronic counter measure/part stealth assault aircraft that along with fighter protection will be able to do its job. Remember that its ECM unit will be able to make up for the lack of stealth on the F-35. It will also be able to be mass produced cheaper than the F-22.
Also. The Russian and Chinese 5th Gen fighters are considered to be stealthy. This all comes down to the radar sbsorbant material used in their construction. Both countries have lagged in all tech advancements compared to NATO style units. You really think these fighters have stealth yet because both countries government say they do? :lol
Well Bar, radar absorbtion is about 5% of the process, the key to stealth is angles that minimize radar return, that either swallow the radars transmission with paint or just airscoops and so forth, or deflect the waves away from the reciever.
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Well Bar, radar absorbtion is about 5% of the process, the key to stealth is angles that minimize radar return, that either swallow the radars transmission with paint or just airscoops and so forth, or deflect the waves away from the reciever.
This is all done with the material used :aok the F117's absorbant material also allows for it to deflect any radar signature (with its angles being used also here) that would return to the radar station....
The angles would mean nothing for the F117 without the material used on the external of the aircraft.
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Is anybody here aware of the Dutch TV's NOVA documentary about the F-35? You should maybe watch it if your desire for objectivity outweighs your need to feel superior / dominant.
Everyone knows that our need to feel superior/dominant will never diminish. We're just so good at it.
Everyone also knows that for some reason, the Dutch enjoy beating us up with KI's and documentaries.
I thought you'd have this figured out by now. :aok :lol :neener:
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I love reading expert debate on why stealth works for any particular aircraft, especially when nobody involved even knows of the existence of exciting reading material like the radar handbook, radar principles, introduction to radar systems, fundamentals of radar signal processing, etc. If you don't know how it really works and how modern radars turn signals into what the operator sees on the screen, then any discussion about stealth is speculation down a path that probably used to be part of some secret project's cover story.
If you know how stealth works, you generally don't talk about it :)
A note about the Chinese aircraft, the intakes use a technology first fully applied in the F-35, for a supersonic non-diverting inlet. Most supersonic inlets have diverter doors to control air pressure and velocity into the air intake. These systems are heavy and can wreck the stealth signature of an aircraft but are generally required if you want to get your plane above about mach 1.4. This is why the F-16 goes slower than the F-15 and why the B-1B is limited to just a hair above mach 1 - neither the F-16 or F-15 have variable inlets. The curious bulge inside the inlet of the F-35 and that Chinese fighter both hides the face of the engine and inlet duct curves from view, and helps shape the airflow to manage pressure, flow, and shock waves during high speed flight. The F-35 is the first production fighter to use that method and the Chinese appear to have used the technique as well.
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are we even sure this thing is legit, on the outside AND in? it could be a bluff by china to make us think there airforce is much more advanced than we believe.
are we even sure the aircraft in the picture is operational? can it fly? does its engines even work? it could just be all looks, some chinese "aviator" could of looked over the f22, and decided to tweek the look a little, then design this look for a fighter jet to make the u.s think its got competition, for all we know that jet in the pic could look nice on the outside, but within its junk. nothing but a bluff.
i wouldnt be suprised if china was bluffing, with all thats going on between north/south korea, war between the u.s and china probally looks closer to happening to them, and they want to avoid it. so there trying to bluff us by saying "oh look, we have stealth fighter too that looks just like yours!"
or it could be like what the russians did with the su-47, make a good stealth fighter but in the end just museum shelf it.
i wont believe this jet is legit until i see actual footage of it in action.
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I'm not Dutch! I just live here.
Are you in the aviation industry eagl?
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I'm not Dutch! I just live here.
Are you in the aviation industry eagl?
He flies an F15
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If any of you work in the defense industry in the US then I think you would agree with me: Damned near 1/3 of the names on any given company's engineering payrolls are of Chinese origin. Draw your own conclusions but I don't think its a big stretch to assume a lot of proprietary sensitive classified info is quietly and securely being sent back home to mom.
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Oh that's interesting. I know another AH player that does that. Or is he one and the same? :noid
I'm sure the Chinese aren't planning to invade the USA just yet, I think it's safe to relax.
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Hmm, a rip-off of the F-22 and the PAK FA. I wonder if WikiLeaks gave away information about the F-22 :lol
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are we even sure this thing is legit, on the outside AND in? it could be a bluff by china to make us think there airforce is much more advanced than we believe.
Lets face some facts.... china has a massive tech industry with huge financial resources and cheap overheads; your (US) military infrastructure is leaking like a sieve (see wikileaks); much of the silicon in the US is made in china. It would not be hard for china to steal info from the US plus through huge amounts of resource at developing and improving on that.
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Hmm, a rip-off of the F-22 and the PAK FA. I wonder if WikiLeaks gave away information about the F-22 :lol
wikileaks merely highlighted the fact that this info was already in foreign hands. It surprises me there hasn't been news of a serious shake up in your intelligence systems, there is off the shelf tech that would've prevented the whole wikileaks thing from happening.
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What Vulcan said
The Power is shifting, you like or not.
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You guys are pretty much all missing the point.
1. The Russian fighter is obviously a stealthy deep strike aircraft. It's freaking huge (F-111 size) with large internal weapons bays. If used as a pure fighter it can probably carry double the missile loadout of an F-22, triple or quadruple what an F-35 can carry.
2. The F-22 is an air dominance fighter with no compromises, but because of stealth it can't be modded to an A/G workhorse like the F-15D became the strike eagle. Comparisons to the F-22 and this new Chinese fighter are like comparing an F-15 to an F-111.
3. The F-35 is a stealthy viper with better information integration software. Those systems can be put in ANY future aircraft and are true advances, but the plane itself is little more than a stealthy F-16. The F-35 is gonna suck at air superiority and it doesn't have the range or payload to replace the F-15E. It is also only front aspect stealthy, so anything left alive after the strike is over will take a shot at the retreating F-35s after they drop their 2 bombs and run out of gas, because they are not rear-aspect stealthy.
This Chinese fighter is something the US wishes it had the money and balls to produce, a stealthy deep strike fighter to be the true successor of the F-111, F-15E, and B-58 hustler. It would be a massive game changer as a strategic deterrent for the US against any potential adversaries, and could actually potentially save trillions of dollars since it could allow us to reduce deterrent commitments elsewhere and act as a deterrent we might actually use against any smaller high-threat country that doesn't quite deserve nuking. But we're not going to make one, even though the concept was pretty fully worked out with the "stretch" F-22 proposals.
+1 Buddy! Glad you know what you are talking about to help some dingbats see the light...not that they will...EVER.
I wish we could go back to simple tactics like just kicking someones teeth in because it was the right thing to do. Something the Chinese and Russians seem to be pretty adept at doing.
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OK what the hell!? :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
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same as the russian "stealth" fighter.
"we cut corners in safety and reliability to lower cost and improve production numbers"
That worked wonders in WWII and the T-34.
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That worked wonders in WWII and the T-34.
pretty much ended there too
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What does Pierre Sprey think of the F-35?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQB4W8C0rZI&feature=related
Here's what this fellow that works at a "think tank" has to say.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kssZua8MVc&feature=related
Please discuss.
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pretty much ended there too
You do realize that the majority of high tech manufacturing currently happens in China? They have capical, know how and resources to do basically anything.
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What does Pierre Sprey think of the F-35?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQB4W8C0rZI&feature=related
Here's what this fellow that works at a "think tank" has to say.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kssZua8MVc&feature=related
Please discuss.
Really? Crickets?
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I'm as surprised as you are!
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http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/01/07/chinas-new-fighter-jet-pose-terrifying-challenge-fleet/?test=latestnews
While the Pentagon downplays China’s rollout this week of what appears to be a jet fighter designed using sophisticated stealth technology, military experts are warning that the aircraft – reportedly capable of besting America’s F-22 in speed and maneuverability – could pose the greatest threat yet to U.S. air superiority.
Decorated Navy fighter pilot Matthew “Whiz” Buckley, a Top Gun graduate of the Navy Fighter Weapons School who flew 44 combat missions over Iraq, says, “It’s probably leaps and bounds above where we are, and that’s terrifying.”
“As a former Navy fighter pilot, going up against something that’s stealthy, highly maneuverable and with electronic systems more capable than mine -- that’ll keep me up at night,” said Buckley, now chief strategy officer at Fox3 Options LLC.
Buckley said photos posted online of the radar-evading Chengdu J-20 jet fighter lead him to believe the aircraft has great stealth capabilities, based on what appears to be a bumpy exterior possibly housing stealth technology, and the lack of external components, such as a gas tank and missiles.
“It was built to reduce radar signatures. You can tell it has some serious stealth technology,” he said. “My F-18 looks like an 18-wheeler on radar. That thing might not even show up.”
The U.S. military's current top-of-the-line fighter is Lockheed Martin's F-22 Raptor, the world's only operational fifth generation fighter. In 2009, Congress capped production of F-22s at 18, relying on the cheaper F-35. Congress does not appear to be reconsidering the cap, which experts call the only real challenger to China’s J-20.
Richard Fisher, a senior fellow on Asian Military Affairs at the International Assessment and Strategy Center, a Washington-based security think tank, says Chinese officials have said that their program is aimed at competing with the F-22 Raptor.
“From what we can see, I conclude that this aircraft does have great potential to be superior in some respects to the American F-22, and could be decisively superior to the F-35,” said Fisher.
Fisher in particular pointed to the Chengdu J-20’s stealth technology and ability to super cruise, or fly supersonically without using fuel-guzzling afterburners. He said it has super maneuverability due to its thrust-vectored engines that allow for sharp turns.
And while the J-20's engine is still in development, Fisher said it's supposed to deliver 15 to 18 tons of thrust, more powerful than the F-22.
“This fighter will likely start entering service in serious numbers by the end of this decade. The Chinese can accelerate this event by purchasing new Russian engines and settling for a lesser capability,” Fisher said.
Experts say it’s hard to say exactly what the J-20’s capabilities are, especially in a fire fight -- but offered a dire prediction: “With China having a fifth generation fighter, the U.S. will lose F-22s faster than previous estimates.”
As for the J-20 pilots, Fisher said the Chinese Air Force has over 500 fourth generation fighters and is making pilot training a priority.
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“China's air training capabilities have increased greatly over the last decade, to include multiple levels of aircraft, better simulators, and more realistic air combat exercises. They will be able to train pilots for their fifth generation combat force,” Fisher said.
Buckley says the U.S. has moved in the opposite direction, dramatically reducing flight-time training for its fighter pilots, choosing instead to use cheaper flight stimulators.
Limiting F-22 production could prove a grave mistake, Fisher said.
Referring to the J-20 photos -- and a new video of the fighter taxiing on a runway -- Fisher said: “There is now every justification for us to be building modernized version of F-22 and to consider capability enhancements for the F-35 that preserve its competitiveness into next decade."
The next generation joint strike fighter is supposed to be the F-35, Buckley said, which is built for use by all services and must encompass the specific and different needs of the Navy, Air Force, Marines.
“When you try to make a jack of all trades, you have tradeoffs,” Buckley said. “It’s obvious that the Chinese are throwing money and technology to making something the best, and here we’re worried that one is going to bankrupt the country.”
“We used be No. 1 at having the leading technology. ... Now, we’re kind of in catch-up mode, where we’ve never really been before.”
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the only benefit i see from the F-35 is that they will be able to be mass-produced, and that they can be deployed much closer and much more rapidly to the front than other fighters
So the same as the P-51 over the P-47 in WW2.
Hope that isn't a rule #14 comment. :lol
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The U.S. military's current top-of-the-line fighter is Lockheed Martin's F-22 Raptor, the world's only operational fifth generation fighter. In 2009, Congress capped production of F-22s at 18
the bolded number has got to be a typo :headscratch:
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Lockheed is scheduled to deliver the last of 187 F-22s in early 2012.
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2010/03/05/339070/usaf-considers-options-to-preserve-f-22-production-tooling.html
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187 F-22s
Seems odd to me that the USAF would want so few.
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Seems odd to me that the USAF would want so few.
I almost fell for that, until I realized you had your sarcasm voice on....it's early in the AM for me, hah.
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I thought it was funny when congress authorized funding for a total of Twenty B-2s.
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This is all done with the material used :aok the F117's absorbant material also allows for it to deflect any radar signature (with its angles being used also here) that would return to the radar station....
The angles would mean nothing for the F117 without the material used on the external of the aircraft.
Amazing the amount of inaccuracies that can be packed into such a short string of text. :huh
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same as the russian "stealth" fighter.
"we cut corners in safety and reliability to lower cost and improve production numbers"
So did we with the Sherman tank :lol
-Penguin
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So did we with the Sherman tank :lol
-Penguin
the sherman wasent the BEST tank of ww2, but it was the right tank at the right time.
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the sherman wasent the BEST tank of ww2, but it was the right tank at the right time.
More precisely- a tank which didn't break down too often, and worked like a car, thus enabling our largely unskilled workforce to assemble them in great numbers. From all accounts, nobody liked anything but its speed, the armor was thinner than German tanks, the gun was smaller, and its range was shorter. The only thing it could do, was get going, and keep going quickly.
The Sherman was also inferior in many ways to the revolutionary T-34 tank, which could literally smash through enemy Panzers. The sloped armor allowed for great protection from ground-based as well as air-based threats. This allowed T-34s to swarm over their adversaries, and simple construction along with intuitive controls ensured a nearly inexhausitble supply.
-Penguin
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The F-35 is a stealthy viper with better information integration software. Those systems can be put in ANY future aircraft and are true advances, but the plane itself is little more than a stealthy F-16. The F-35 is gonna suck at air superiority and it doesn't have the range or payload to replace the F-15E.
So dump the airframe and retro fit the new information systems in to the existing F-15E and get 3 times as many for the same cost?
Wab
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What does Pierre Sprey think of the F-35?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQB4W8C0rZI&feature=related
Here's what this fellow that works at a "think tank" has to say.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kssZua8MVc&feature=related
Please discuss.
Disquieting to say the least. :uhoh
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It couldnt be that stealthy...some one took a picture of it. I can see it plain as day. :devil
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So dump the airframe and retro fit the new information systems in to the existing F-15E and get 3 times as many for the same cost?
Wab
The silent eagle would have approx the RCS of a superhornet (maybe slightly less due to internal weapons capability of the new conformal weapons bays) but would have a significantly greater payload, range, endurance than then F-35. Downsides are long-term expense... Second engine and seat of the F-15E would be a continuing expense. Cost savings development into whatever engine would be put into a new-build silent eagle and increased integration in the aircraft avionics and systems might help mitigagte the cost, but the development costs would not be small and per-aircraft price would be high. The main savings up front would be not having to start up a training program from scratch... Existing training systems could be adapted and cross-training from one F-15 variant to another has been fairly straightforward in the past.
But the USAF is under a SECDEF and SECAF directive to not purchase any non-stealthy manned combat aircraft, so it probably won't happen.
On a different note, Secretary Gates indicated that he wants to talk to Japan about a suitable policy regarding China's J-20, after it demonstrated its first flight. As a wild guess, that sounds like we'll either re-attempt an F-22 sale to Japan (unlikely IMHO) or attempt to sell them something sooner than the F-35, possibly new-build air defense F-15s, taking advantage of all the latest developments for that airframe. A full-up AESA radar with the best digital signal processing, better RWR and internal jammer, internal weapons carriage, and new engines offering high mach supercruise, would make for one hell of an effective air superiority fighter for Japan. Add better pylons (or activate stations 1 & 8 under the wings) and the plane could carry 10 AMRAAMs for cruise missile defense or defense against escorted strike aircraft. The silent eagle treatments might even make this a survivable mission by shortening the effective engagement range against the F-15.
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Considering the reason that countries like Japan and Canada weren't allowed to buy the F22 was concerns over espionage against those countries being easier than the USA, I think that seeing the J20 pretty much shoots that argument right out of the water. This being a non-issue somewhat, and even if it was, if you can't trust your allies, wtf is the point anyway.
My country has signed on for 65 F35s for something like 8 billion when after all is said and done for spare engines etc. This is for an aircraft that is integral to Norad air defence over the North and arctic, a task the short range slow F35 is NOT ideal for. The F22 however would be a much better choice with it's supercruise ability and somewhat longer range. Why not sell it to Canada and Japan, and open up the production line again and have this add pressure to SECDEF etc to leverage more USAF F22's as well, as it'll drive the price down if all of a suden the USA's allies order 300 of the things in total. Not to mention the fact that the F22 is a system in squadron service, all the lessons learned from this by the USAF can be instantly trained into the allied countries forces...makes an instant force multiplier compared to waiting for the F35.
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meh. should just restart F14 production. :D :t
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The silent eagle would have approx the RCS of a superhornet (maybe slightly less due to internal weapons capability of the new conformal weapons bays) but would have a significantly greater payload, range, endurance than then F-35. Downsides are long-term expense... Second engine and seat of the F-15E would be a continuing expense. Cost savings development into whatever engine would be put into a new-build silent eagle and increased integration in the aircraft avionics and systems might help mitigagte the cost, but the development costs would not be small and per-aircraft price would be high. The main savings up front would be not having to start up a training program from scratch... Existing training systems could be adapted and cross-training from one F-15 variant to another has been fairly straightforward in the past.
But the USAF is under a SECDEF and SECAF directive to not purchase any non-stealthy manned combat aircraft, so it probably won't happen.
On a different note, Secretary Gates indicated that he wants to talk to Japan about a suitable policy regarding China's J-20, after it demonstrated its first flight. As a wild guess, that sounds like we'll either re-attempt an F-22 sale to Japan (unlikely IMHO) or attempt to sell them something sooner than the F-35, possibly new-build air defense F-15s, taking advantage of all the latest developments for that airframe. A full-up AESA radar with the best digital signal processing, better RWR and internal jammer, internal weapons carriage, and new engines offering high mach supercruise, would make for one hell of an effective air superiority fighter for Japan. Add better pylons (or activate stations 1 & 8 under the wings) and the plane could carry 10 AMRAAMs for cruise missile defense or defense against escorted strike aircraft. The silent eagle treatments might even make this a survivable mission by shortening the effective engagement range against the F-15.
Am I the only one that wonders what eagl knows but can't tell us?
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Am I the only one that wonders what eagl knows but can't tell us?
No. Pretty much makes sense. What would make more sense is re-opening the A-10 line since its pretty much retard simple and we could use an effective long loiter CAS platform. As for the F-35, i'd just scrap that and give everyone AV8B's.
Yr welcome Stoney.
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check out what Mitsubish is up to :aok
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g94C5CNIPOQ
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check out what Mitsubish is up to :aok
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g94C5CNIPOQ
so, pretty much japan is taking the f-15 and trying to make it stealthy? :rolleyes:
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frankly, who cares what the chinese got? they will NEVER have something as cool as the AURORA. :x
(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f385/xxREXxx_01/aurora_05.jpg)
http://www.aerospaceweb.org/aircraft/recon/aurora/
the ultimate mach 5 interceptor. put some bombs, some missiles on that thing, and it could still prob go above mach 4.
rumored to be hidden at area 51 :noid.
those chinese commies wil run in terror :aok
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No. Pretty much makes sense. What would make more sense is re-opening the A-10 line since its pretty much retard simple and we could use an effective long loiter CAS platform. As for the F-35, i'd just scrap that and give everyone AV8B's.
Yr welcome Stoney.
I think following along the simple-as-can-be lines with the A-10 program, I forget where I heard it, but I believe the _manned_ days of the A-10 program are dwindleing... I think we'l lbe seeing A-10 + Drone hybrid technology in the future. It makes really awesoem sence to me, think of it, what's more badarse than a modern CAS A-10?... how about one that doesn't need to RTB or leave the side of the ground forces it's attached to unless it needs repairs/maintenance or reloading?
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frankly, who cares what the chinese got? they will NEVER have something as cool as the AURORA. :x
(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f385/xxREXxx_01/aurora_05.jpg)
http://www.aerospaceweb.org/aircraft/recon/aurora/
the ultimate mach 5 interceptor. put some bombs, some missiles on that thing, and it could still prob go above mach 4.
rumored to be hidden at area 51 :noid.
those chinese commies wil run in terror :aok
Actually, if you want to go somewhere and make a ton of money really fast, it'd be China. Our system is more tightly controlled than their's is- a more fitting battle cry would be:
Down with our Creditors!
Down with our Producers!
Down with our greatest market!
-Penguin