Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Mirage on January 06, 2011, 10:20:01 PM
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I searched it and alot of the threads were over a year old so I figured why not, for k/d ratios it was by far the best tank destroyer of the war with more being lost to technical problems then to enemy tanks, I think that if it got added to AH it would have a lower perk then the tiger due to it being glacially slow with no turret and only average side and rear armor, it would also be a massive target
Feel free to say what you think about adding the elefant to the game
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I'd do my homework and then give your report to the class, so-to-speak. I'm willing to research this, but others may not be so forgiving.
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So it is basically a Panzer with a bigger gun? I don't see why not, but I don't see why, either. Perhaps for a Tiger gun without the high perk cost?
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There will be lots of info to come tomorrow I am opperating on an iPod touch right now as I am in the us helping my parents out with their company :)
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So it is basically a Panzer with a bigger gun? I don't see why not, but I don't see why, either. Perhaps for a Tiger gun without the high perk cost?
I'd say it's more of a tiger with a better gun an much thicker front armor but less challenging to destroy because of the lack of a turret :)
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There are a ton of reasons why all you see is pictures of knocked out Elefants. I'd suggest doing some digging on your own on that one.
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There are a ton of reasons why all you see is pictures of knocked out Elefants. I'd suggest doing some digging on your own on that one.
You ruin the fun sometimes! :devil But yes, they were a failed vehicle.
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Well as long as they don't add napalm the Elefant will be a fine tank/tank destroyer but what killed them and ruined the war for the Elefant was, 1 No mobility the thing drove 15 mph for goodness sakes, 2 it had no pintle gun so troops could burn the poor thing, 3 it was VERY vulnerable to rounds on the top of the turret. It would be a great add for defending against a gv attack but anything else and it wouldn't perform to well.
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Well as long as they don't add napalm the Elefant will be a fine tank/tank destroyer but what killed them and ruined the war for the Elefant was, 1 No mobility the thing drove 15 mph for goodness sakes, 2 it had no pintle gun so troops could burn the poor thing, 3 it was VERY vulnerable to rounds on the top of the turret. It would be a great add for defending against a gv attack but anything else and it wouldn't perform to well.
That is half of what a tank does.
1. Protect the base 50%
2. Attack another base 50%
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Well as long as they don't add napalm the Elefant will be a fine tank/tank destroyer but what killed them and ruined the war for the Elefant was, 1 No mobility the thing drove 15 mph for goodness sakes, 2 it had no pintle gun so troops could burn the poor thing, 3 it was VERY vulnerable to rounds on the top of the turret. It would be a great add for defending against a gv attack but anything else and it wouldn't perform to well.
The Elefant as far as I can recal off the top of my head had a hull my was added to the Elefant as well as zimmerit anti magnetic mine past applied to it and after the fiasco they had on the ostfront (Ferdinand) the Elefant was moved to Italy ( where it would have had better success had it been able to cross Italian bridges which weren't able to support the machines 70 ton weight)
I apologize for the mistakes that my overview on the Elefant as I am just going off of what I can remember off the top of my head
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That is half of what a tank does.
1. Protect the base 50%
2. Attack another base 50%
you know a tiger was much better defending than assaulting correct?
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Yes, but it could do both.
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Some quick wiki stats
Frontal armor thickness 200mm
Maximum road speed 19mph
Business end 1 8.8cm PaK 43/2 gun + 1 mg34 in the hull
Weight 70 tons
Again would be a good defensive weapon in AH due to the lack of reliability issues which were the elefants main adversarys
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Again would be a good defensive weapon in AH due to the lack of reliability issues which were the elefants main adversarys
this is true here :aok all mechanical reliability issues in AH are nil. The IL-2's 37mm was actually much more unreliable than in AH, P38s had engine issues above 20k-25k feet, etc.
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Exactly also like the BMW 801 engines rear row cooling problems the Elefant could bring a new level to the tactical deployment of vehicles in ah with the elephants taking the attack head on with panzer IVH's and panthers covering the flanks
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Wouldn't the JagPanther be a better choice as opposed to the Elephant?
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Wouldn't the JagPanther be a better choice as opposed to the Elephant?
by far
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It may, but would you really want to have another super uber gv?
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It may, but would you really want to have another super uber gv?
yup
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Well where is the fun in that?
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Well where is the fun in that?
theres alot :t
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Finally something big to destroy :D
+1
AND... The light tank: 7TP would be great in early war arenas! :old:
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That is half of what a tank does.
1. Protect the base 50%
2. Attack another base 50%
And it did now lets see what were the average k/d results of a tiger that went to attack a base, and what was the k/d ratio on thos defending.
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I said A TANK (Broad spectrum) not A TIGER (specific type), people. And 50% isn't an exact ratio... Why so serious?
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Er....um...methinks the Elefant had no turret. To aim the gun the vehicle had to be turned.
That is why most pics show them destroyed....slow, no turret to aim gun, lousy in close quarters such as villages and towns,
and mechanically a pain in the arse.
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Er....um...methinks the Elefant had no turret. To aim the gun the vehicle had to be turned.
That is why most pics show them destroyed....slow, no turret to aim gun, lousy in close quarters such as villages and towns,
and mechanically a pain in the arse.
it didnt have a turret but the gun had a 15 degree transvers to the sides
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Eliminating mechanical issues has been customary in this game. With that said, it would be neat to see it added down the road. +1
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Er....um...methinks the Elefant had no turret. To aim the gun the vehicle had to be turned.
That's why it was called a tank destroyer. Sat way behind the battle and picked off other tanks.
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it didnt have a turret but the gun had a 15 degree transvers to the sides
Which is nothing to write home about and the same goes for the Elefant. The only highlight from WWII, was of an Elefant knocking out a T-34 from a distance of almost 4.5km.
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I think you mistake me for someone who thinks the Elefant is better then it was, I am aware of its short comings, I just think it is a cool vehicle (and the Best looking tank destroyer their ever was) and think it would be neat to have in the game one day :aok
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I'd rather see the current plane updated for better textures. Then worry about adding useless vehicles such as the elefant.
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Yeah with a low total of production I give it a +1 but seeing as the frontal armour and gun is what it is as well as total production we might be doing good on a 300-475 perk price.
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lol there were more of them the ostwinds or wirble winds, and with no turret, it would be less perks then a tiger
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The Ferdinand (Elefant) was a dedicated tank-destroyer, IIRC. This would bring a new vehicle class in to the game. +1
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(and the Best looking tank destroyer their ever was)
:huh
The thing was a box with a gun. Nothing good looking about it.
(http://www.stardestroyer.net/Armour/ShepPics/Aberdeen/Ferd.jpg)
At least the Jagdtiger and Jagdpanther had a sloped armor, which gives a bit of eye appeal.
(http://panzerwaffe.pl/krzemek/jagdtiger/jagdtiger13d.jpg)
(http://www.ww2incolor.com/d/41971-5/jagdpanther)
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:huh
The thing was a box with a gun. Nothing good looking about it.
(http://www.stardestroyer.net/Armour/ShepPics/Aberdeen/Ferd.jpg)
At least the Jagdtiger and Jagdpanther had a sloped armor, which gives a bit of eye appeal.
(http://panzerwaffe.pl/krzemek/jagdtiger/jagdtiger13d.jpg)
(http://www.ww2incolor.com/d/41971-5/jagdpanther)
Its a box with a gun that looks like it wants to kill things, its not ment to be pretty :t
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:huh
The thing was a box with a gun. Nothing good looking about it.
(http://www.stardestroyer.net/Armour/ShepPics/Aberdeen/Ferd.jpg)
At least the Jagdtiger and Jagdpanther had a sloped armor, which gives a bit of eye appeal.
(http://panzerwaffe.pl/krzemek/jagdtiger/jagdtiger13d.jpg)
(http://www.ww2incolor.com/d/41971-5/jagdpanther)
wide&fat, be easy to hit that thing with a 500lber
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That's why it was called a tank destroyer. Sat way behind the battle and picked off other tanks.
then whats my M-18 spikes? :D
the definition of a TD is a vehicle designed solely to DESTROY TANKS. turret or no turret.
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What's not to love? :devil
(http://images.mocpages.com/user_images/60621/1284950892m_SPLASH.jpg)
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Its a box with a gun that looks like it wants to kill things, its not ment to be pretty :t
Yeah, but it cant even turn 90 degrees before you turn it around...
-1 i thought you ment the other one :(
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tell me what the jagdpanther could do that the elefant couldnt?
tell me what the jagdtiger could do that the elefant couldnt?
does the jagdpanther have a kill to death ratio of 10:1, during the battle of kursk Ferdinands killed 320 soviet tanks for loosing 13 Ferdinands, no other tank could beat it, it was infantry and mechanical problems that were its main enemy
(http://www.ww2incolor.com/d/472202-2/Elefant+Heavy+Tank+Destroyer)
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"No other tank could beat it?"
Doubt it.
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tell me what the jagdpanther could do that the elefant couldnt?
tell me what the jagdtiger could do that the elefant couldnt?
does the jagdpanther have a kill to death ratio of 10:1, during the battle of kursk Ferdinands killed 320 soviet tanks for loosing 13 Ferdinands, no other tank could beat it, it was infantry and mechanical problems that were its main enemy
(http://www.ww2incolor.com/d/472202-2/Elefant+Heavy+Tank+Destroyer)
Infantry could beat it all they had to do was get a flame thrower/moltov cocktail and let it burn.
Burn Baby Burn!
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"No other tank could beat it?"
Doubt it.
I ment at kursk again, I have said that it is not the best and has its short comings, thats why I think it should be added, because we dont need another german super tank,
and 911, did you even read that post, I said infantry was its main threat, and the Elefant addressed the ferdinands problems but adding Zimmerit and a hull MG34
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Type 97 Chi-Ha please before more german Iron or even a Brit Tank (No-one mention M18)
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I ment at kursk again, I have said that it is not the best and has its short comings, thats why I think it should be added, because we dont need another german super tank,
and 911, did you even read that post, I said infantry was its main threat, and the Elefant addressed the ferdinands problems but adding Zimmerit and a hull MG34
<------------------Feels like an idiot.
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no reason too, everyone makes mistakes sometimes :)
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I ment at kursk again, I have said that it is not the best and has its short comings, thats why I think it should be added, because we dont need another german super tank,
and 911, did you even read that post, I said infantry was its main threat, and the Elefant addressed the ferdinands problems but adding Zimmerit and a hull MG34
The Germans were embarrassed at Kursk. Light Duty Transmission and 30+ Ton vehicles are not ideal combinations. From the Tiger, Panther, Tiger II on up. The Elefant had MANY shortcomings.
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tell me what the jagdpanther could do that the elefant couldnt?
tell me what the jagdtiger could do that the elefant couldnt?
does the jagdpanther have a kill to death ratio of 10:1, during the battle of kursk Ferdinands killed 320 soviet tanks for loosing 13 Ferdinands, no other tank could beat it, it was infantry and mechanical problems that were its main enemy
(http://www.ww2incolor.com/d/472202-2/Elefant+Heavy+Tank+Destroyer)
read up on the battle and youll see why this K/D happened. The elefant is crap
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read up on the battle and youll see why this K/D happened. The elefant is crap
+1
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read up on the battle and youll see why this K/D happened. The elefant is crap
I wouldn't call it crap, it was good in a static defense role as an armored pill box. It just sucked when used as in the assault role.
ack-ack
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thank you ack ack
and no one has still answerd what a jagdtiger and a jagdpanther could do better then an elefant?
you fail to realise that the tank destroyers you guys posted were used in the ideal conditions that the elefant was suited for, defence, the elefant was used as an offensive weapon, because at the time, germany was on the offensive, put an elefant in the same position jagdtigers and jagdpanthers for defence of the reich rather then in italy and russia and I would argue that your outlook on it would be very different
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thank you ack ack
and no one has still answerd what a jagdtiger and a jagdpanther could do better then an elefant?
you fail to realise that the tank destroyers you guys posted were used in the ideal conditions that the elefant was suited for, defence, the elefant was used as an offensive weapon, because at the time, germany was on the offensive, put an elefant in the same position jagdtigers and jagdpanthers for defence of the reich rather then in italy and russia and I would argue that your outlook on it would be very different
I suggest you read the reference book "Battle of Kursk" by David Glantz, for starters.
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I wouldn't call it crap, it was good in a static defense role as an armored pill box. It just sucked when used as in the assault role.
ack-ack
or in any role that was not as an armored pill box...
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thank you ack ack
and no one has still answerd what a jagdtiger and a jagdpanther could do better then an elefant?
Cross a bridge without making it collapse. :D
ack-ack
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okay, now how was the jagdtiger better :P
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it could move around a bit, the JagdPanther was quite a good mover.
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okay, now how was the jagdtiger better :P
compared to a massive 19mph box of too much steel for too small of a transmission which would sink into anything that was even touched by rain... well yeah you can figure out why :aok
rather the jagdpanther like phatzo
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okay, now how was the jagdtiger better :P
Consider it like this what happens when a M4 drives around in deep/slick sand
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say yes to the Elefant, my T-34 needs some target practice :angel: :P
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The Germans were embarrassed at Kursk. Light Duty Transmission and 30+ Ton vehicles are not ideal combinations. From the Tiger, Panther, Tiger II on up. The Elefant had MANY shortcomings.
yes, most of which were caused by infantry and mechanical problems, niether of which AH has, so maybe you should look beyond 1 battle ( from which the German army did make a good fighting withdrawl from) and maybe rather then listing real life variables that AH does not account for, you could list the problems an Elefant might have in AH rather then real life, I will start you off
1. its Slow
2. it will be hard to manuver the vehicle to get a shot at close range
3. It will be easy to knock out from the air
now, lets look at the positive aspects an Elefant would have if it was added to AH
1. Great Gun
2.Great Frontal armor
3.Ideal for base defense
you really seem to have your brain stuck on the two of the Elefants bigest problems in real life
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The only thing the Elefant could do well in AH is spawn camp. But the lack of shells would stymie a lot of folks from using.
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The only thing the Elefant could do well in AH is spawn camp. But the lack of shells would stymie a lot of folks from using.
and it looks like it has a large width. be easy to divebomb a 500lber right ontop of it.
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The only thing the Elefant could do well in AH is spawn camp. But the lack of shells would stymie a lot of folks from using.
and defend bases against GV raids, it would be able to pick off every single tank in the game before the other tank could range it in
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and defend bases against GV raids, it would be able to pick off every single tank in the game before the other tank could range it in
so pretty much, its a tank whos sole purpose would be to camp a postion picking other tanks off till it finally ran out of ammo and had to run slowly back home?
-111111111111111111+ to that.
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if you dont like it dont drive it :)
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if you dont like it dont drive it :)
i wouldnt, and it wouldnt want me to gv attack a field ether, imagine trying to take a TT gv field with nothing but this things camping them, if what you said is true, they could pick off the attacking tanks before the enemy got within range to fire, and also just have jeeps resup the camping tanks and they'd never have to stop firing.
once this happens the attacking gvs would complain to fellow countrymen about the campers, then send in air support to divebomb said campers.
which will lead to topics being created on here whining about how this thing is so easy to hit with a bomb, and therefore should be modeled "stronger & slimmer".
in short, it could become a game breaker.
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lol no it wont become a game breaker, if you look at the terrain in AH, it isnt the most "Open" it could be, the Elefant would need to be on a hill looking down to make the ultra long range shots that it could, in flat terrain with trees, It really should be quite easy to sneak around the side of it where the armour is thin
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.....Which is why this vehicle has no business being in the game. It is a "one dimensional" vehicle.
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then you are saying all TD's dont have a place, take the M 18 for example, its a fast gun on wheels with less then an Inch of armor + an Open top, an M-8 could shred it, I was just doing some reading last night, and I realised that one of the Best TD's that we could get in the game is a Jagdpanzer ( silly me for not thinking of this earlier) the reason being, is that there isnt really anything "Uber" about it, but it has no major faults (for being a Tank destroyer)
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I never mentioned the MORE MOBILE M-18. But I'd rather see that vehicle than the lethargic Elefant.
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I never mentioned the MORE MOBILE M-18. But I'd rather see that vehicle than the lethargic Elefant.
i was using it as an example, as in your words it seems like you think that all tank destroyers would be a one dimensional vehicle in AH
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i was using it as an example, as in your words it seems like you think that all tank destroyers would be a one dimensional vehicle in AH
No. I never once stated the above quote. Only in regards to the Elefant, no other TD. Please put someone else's words in their mouth
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I dont think you quite understood what I ment by that but its okay
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say yes to the Elefant, my T-34 needs some target practice :angel: :P
And when that elefant one shots you after all your hits bounce don't come and post a whine. :old:
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dont worry, im not a frontal assault type of person ;)
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wide&fat, be easy to hit that thing with a 500lber
Thats a bomb**** statement. :neener:
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I would still like to see this thing in the game. Would be fun :P
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The only thing that makes this a good idea is the fact that the Elefant is a pretty cool TD up close. :cool: