Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: lutzmax on January 11, 2011, 03:51:50 PM

Title: Re: White Flag
Post by: lutzmax on January 11, 2011, 03:51:50 PM: I am an infrequent poster here Skuzzy. Is it always the case that you ask a question and lock the thread before anyone can respond? Seems counter-productive to me. Isn't the Wish List area a place to have discussions and generate ideas for the game? Should that be confined to the General forum?

The white flag at towns is a surrender flag. IRL I would expect a town to surrender after its defenses are down and it has been beaten into submission. In the current AH model that is not the case. The surrender flag goes out but ack is still shooting. Some other kind of notification would be more realistic/appropriate. Perhaps a flare, or an SOS flag, perhaps solid red.
I thought that was pretty clear from the postings.
It's not a big deal.
Title: Re: White Flag
Post by: Skuzzy on January 11, 2011, 03:59:37 PM: The "Wishlist" forum is for players to put out ideas they would like HiTech to consider for implementing in the game. The very name of your thread was not conducive to making a request. The post itself was not clear on anything being requested for the game.

This is not a forum to put forth gripes or complaints about the game.

It was my intention to lock that old thread so you might get off to a better start with a new one as that old thread was a bit obfuscated.

I made a comment in the original thread. I did not ask a question.
Title: Re: White Flag
Post by: Pigslilspaz on January 11, 2011, 04:58:15 PM: The Great and Powerful Oz has spoken!
Title: Re: White Flag
Post by: AWwrgwy on January 11, 2011, 05:52:46 PM: Quote from: Pigslilspaz on January 11, 2011, 04:58:15 PM
The Great and Powerful Skuz has spoken!

fixed.
:aok

wrongway
Title: Re: White Flag
Post by: ImADot on January 11, 2011, 06:00:10 PM: I had gotten from the original thread (yeah, I had to think about it cuz it was wrapped in too much embellishment) that the issue is the white flag comes up when enough buildings have been destroyed. It does not take into account that the town is actually ready for capture, because apparently if not all ack is down the flag still turns white. So, you think it's ready, only to get gunned down by the auto ack that's still up.

Is this a bug, or a needed wish? You decide. I believe the white flag should not go up until BOTH conditions are met...enough buildings are down and all the ack is down. :aok
Title: Re: White Flag
Post by: guncrasher on January 11, 2011, 06:07:08 PM: it's actually a good idea, let the flag change only when the town ack is down also.

on second thought, it will be just as confusing, is town not down due to ack or not enough buildings down?

I think either way is confusing.

semp
Title: Re: White Flag
Post by: lutzmax on January 11, 2011, 07:39:09 PM: It would force you to get the AA first and then concentrate on the town.
Title: Re: White Flag
Post by: AWwrgwy on January 11, 2011, 07:41:54 PM: Experiment: Can you take a town with a white flag up with ack up?

wrongway
Title: Re: White Flag
Post by: AAJagerX on January 11, 2011, 10:13:24 PM: Quote from: AWwrgwy on January 11, 2011, 07:41:54 PM
Experiment: Can you take a town with a white flag up with ack up?

wrongway

No. If there's any ack up, the troops die the instant you let them run.
Title: Re: White Flag
Post by: AAJagerX on January 11, 2011, 10:15:47 PM: Quote from: guncrasher on January 11, 2011, 06:07:08 PM
it's actually a good idea, let the flag change only when the town ack is down also.

on second thought, it will be just as confusing, is town not down due to ack or not enough buildings down?

I think either way is confusing.

semp

We could always have TWO giant flags! :O :rofl
Title: Re: White Flag
Post by: AWwrgwy on January 11, 2011, 11:21:06 PM: Quote from: AAJagerX on January 11, 2011, 10:13:24 PM
No. If there's any ack up, the troops die the instant you let them run.

Stupid question: Are they getting shot? Out of the line of fire?

If so, then I'd say it's a bug.

wrongway
Title: Re: White Flag
Post by: Melvin on January 12, 2011, 01:14:23 AM: Bullets fly through everything. Troops can run through hedgerows that stop tanks.

All that sucks.

As far as the ack goes though. Simply run down there and draw fire. It's not hard.

War is hell, if those poor bastages want to die for their country, I say GOOD!

Edit: Let me clarify here.

So, what is happening is that you see the white flag and drop troops without checking for ack?

How many times has this happened to you guys?

Think about this: You've smashed the town good and still no white flag. You then have to fly down there and draw fire to see where that ack is. What's the difference?

It only takes 50% to take a base. Is it so much to ask that you check carefully for any AA guns that might be up before dropping troops?
Title: Re: White Flag
Post by: Tyrannis on January 12, 2011, 02:31:20 AM: Quote from: ImADot on January 11, 2011, 06:00:10 PM
I had gotten from the original thread (yeah, I had to think about it cuz it was wrapped in too much embellishment) that the issue is the white flag comes up when enough buildings have been destroyed. It does not take into account that the town is actually ready for capture, because apparently if not all ack is down the flag still turns white. So, you think it's ready, only to get gunned down by the auto ack that's still up.

Is this a bug, or a needed wish? You decide. I believe the white flag should not go up until BOTH conditions are met...enough buildings are down and all the ack is down. :aok

so pretty much not ALL the buildings have to be down anymore? was shelling 48 last night on off-hours, white flag came up but i let off one last HC salvo anyways, and destroyed 2 buildings even tho it was a white flag. i was thinking there was a bug with the white flag because i thought every building had to be destroyed first :headscratch:
Title: Re: White Flag
Post by: guncrasher on January 12, 2011, 03:22:12 AM: its been like this for 2 months i think. only 50% of the town needs to be down now, i think.

semp
Title: Re: White Flag
Post by: Melvin on January 12, 2011, 03:33:56 AM: Quote from: guncrasher on January 12, 2011, 03:22:12 AM
its been like this for 2 months i think. only 50% of the town needs to be down now, i think.

semp

"But, but, the ACK still shoots at us. I want the flag to tell me when the ACK is down so i don't have to get dirty and engage it at close range."

Edit: Here's a :neener: so you know I'm not being too serious. I know some guys are sensitive.

Really though, awful wish. No reason to spend time changing code for something so simple.

Way to be lousy.
Title: Re: White Flag
Post by: guncrasher on January 12, 2011, 04:05:25 AM: actually it would be a cool thing to have for when you are in a gv. I have let troops go right next to map room while in m3 and they all died. kept wondering why, till somebody flew over the town and I saw the ack shooting. but its one of those things that unless you have 2 flags, one for ack and one for building, would be pretty confusing. because you wont know if its buildings that need to be down or the ack.

semp
Title: Re: White Flag
Post by: sky25 on January 12, 2011, 06:22:10 AM: Quote from: Skuzzy on January 11, 2011, 03:59:37 PM

It was my intention to lock that old thread so you might get off to a better start with a new one as that old thread was a bit obfuscated.

Thanks a lot Scuzzy, You made me pull out my dictionary...

Obfuscation is the concealment of intended meaning in communication, making communication confusing, intentionally ambiguous, and more difficult to interpret

Once the white flag goes up, you can quickly tell if the ack is down because you will no longer see it firing..
Title: Re: White Flag
Post by: grumpy37 on January 12, 2011, 09:32:15 AM: I would think at this point most if not all have figured out the white flag represents buildings down only. HTC has already made it about as easy as they can to capture a town, do we really need to be assisted anymore?
Title: Re: White Flag
Post by: ImADot on January 12, 2011, 09:35:49 AM: Quote from: grumpy37 on January 12, 2011, 09:32:15 AM
do we really need to be assisted anymore?

Apparently. :D
Title: Re: White Flag
Post by: fbWldcat on January 12, 2011, 10:21:27 AM: Town Down: Top colored stripe turns white

Ack down: Bottom colored stripe turns white

Whole town down: white flag.
Title: Re: White Flag
Post by: DeadStik on January 12, 2011, 10:33:38 AM: Quote from: fbWldcat on January 12, 2011, 10:21:27 AM
Town Down: Top colored stripe turns white

Ack down: Bottom colored stripe turns white

Whole town down: white flag.

I like this idea. A lot of people are criticizing this wish when actually it does hold a valid point. I agree that a flag indication of ack being down is completely pointless for an air attack, however, as Semp mentioned for a GV raid it would be helpful to know. Sometimes that ack is firing but doesn't hit you when you're on the ground giving no indication of it's existence. A white flag gives a false sense of victory in that case. Afterall, a white flag does mean "we surrender." Yet as it is it's like they're saying, "we surrender... JUST KIDDING!" *BLAM* you're dead. I'd say this wish does deserve some merit. :aok
Title: Re: White Flag
Post by: lutzmax on January 12, 2011, 11:59:09 AM: I am not looking to make the game easier. I am just trying to have a discongruency rectified. A white flag means surrender. Surrender means we do not shoot anymore. We ask for accuracy in this game, so why not in this case? I don't need any special indicator to know when the AA is up as a simple fly-by answers that question...I just don't like being shot at by forces displaying a white flag. It offends the former soldier in me. Just changing the flag from white to, for example, red would fix it. Call the red flag an SOS. Have the country flag flip upside down, the international distress sign. Whatever.

We don't need two flags per se; one for buildings down, one for aa down. That isn't necessary. Just use a different color or some other device to indicate that the town is depleted enough for capture.

I hope that is clear enough for even Melvin to understand. :eek:
Title: Re: White Flag
Post by: Melvin on January 12, 2011, 12:27:19 PM: So, you're saying that after the town goes down you want a red flag to go up because there is a morality issue at play here?

Well sir, I am offended at the thought that a little bombing would turn the good people caught in the crossfire into communists.

Perhaps you should go see DMGOD. He might have a spare rainbow flag for you.

The upside down idea isn't half bad though. A true distress signal. :bolt:
Title: Re: White Flag
Post by: LLogann on January 12, 2011, 12:36:53 PM: Civil Defense Forces may still have active anti-air units deployed in a town, but in no way does that constitute a NO SURRENDER clause to the active political powers..... ie. The Mayor. Throughout history civilizations have surrender while their forces were still fighting.

BIG MINUS ONE

If your SA is that bad, don't be a land grabber.

If you mean discrepancy, it isn't........ See Above.

Quote from: lutzmax on January 12, 2011, 11:59:09 AM
I am just trying to have a discongruency rectified. A white flag means surrender.
Title: Re: White Flag
Post by: grumpy37 on January 12, 2011, 12:38:21 PM: I personally think the flag idea is lame all the way around. I mean we have, well some of us, have played this game for a better part of a decade with no flags in town. The game has evolved i understand and that is fine but the game is getting "gammier" with every update. It was simple before, destroy all buildings and guns, take town. It use to take work, effort and maybe even a little skill. Now with 1 set of just about any bombers a single pass down the center of town gives the white flag. 3 of us took a field in 3 minutes from first bomb drop to troops in the maproom. 1 set of bombers, 1 deacked since half the ack gets taken out in center of town anyway and the other had the M3. I hear a lot of people saying the maps cant be won in LW because of the new off hours set up. Come to MW, the Nits flipped the map 4 times just yesturday alone. Not because they are skilled, they think they are but its just not true. Its gotten so easy to take bases they outnumber 3 or 4 to 1 and just roll them left and right.
Title: Re: White Flag
Post by: Chilli on January 12, 2011, 01:29:11 PM: Seriously, most of you wouldn't have a clue what a good idea is if it had a neon sign "HTC approved, so shut up and enjoy it".

Then again most of the posts I see are just flames, about how someone else has limited reasoning abilities (like this one... flame on!!).

+ 100 :aok If I am sitting at the maproom with troops and nothing firing at me and a "Surrender" flag, my troops should take the maproom.
Valid points:

1) Ground vehicles are unable to see ground ack, without a GREAT deal of driving to specific locations. Do you have a map of them, anyone?

2) A flag is needed to tell if enough buildings are down, even if it were 100%, due to the fact that some buildings are hidden.

3) Town ack pops with a timer, so in reality, you can take them all down (everything that is firing), drive to the maproom, and still not know there is ack up to stop the capture, because someone prematurely killed an ack.

4) If ack is not in line of sight of the troops at the maproom, then it should not be able to injure any troops or prevent a capture. So, the way that capture conditions are currently, the white flag is misleading (period).
Title: Re: White Flag
Post by: grumpy37 on January 12, 2011, 01:35:36 PM: Quote from: Chilli on January 12, 2011, 01:29:11 PM
Seriously, most of you wouldn't have a clue what a good idea is if it had a neon sign "HTC approved, so shut up and enjoy it".

Then again most of the posts I see are just flames, about how someone else has limited reasoning abilities (like this one... flame on!!).

+ 100 :aok If I am sitting at the maproom with troops and nothing firing at me and a "Surrender" flag, my troops should take the maproom.
Valid points:

1) Ground vehicles are unable to see ground ack, without a GREAT deal of driving to specific locations. Do you have a map of them, anyone?

2) A flag is needed to tell if enough buildings are down, even if it were 100%, due to the fact that some buildings are hidden.

3) Town ack pops with a timer, so in reality, you can take them all down (everything that is firing), drive to the maproom, and still not know there is ack up to stop the capture, because someone prematurely killed an ack.

4) If ack is not in line of sight of the troops at the maproom, then it should not be able to injure any troops or prevent a capture. So, the way that capture conditions are currently, the white flag is misleading (period).

I have always felt that way. If you could get your M3 past all the ack and make it to the map room and let the troops roll then they should take regardless.
Title: Re: White Flag
Post by: LLogann on January 12, 2011, 01:40:18 PM: Sort of backs up what I just said Chilli...... The town's leader has raised the white flag at the maproom but who's to say the sniper in the bell tower got the message? Or will listen? KILL THE GUNS.

Or......... Take a step back from your reality for a moment...... A reality where the white flag is as it is in your head........... Now step into AH World......... The White Flag is the signal that the townsfolk are ready to surrender....... Just as soon as you kill of any last resistance.

HOW IS THAT NOT REAL LIFE?

Quote from: Chilli on January 12, 2011, 01:29:11 PM
Seriously, most of you wouldn't have a clue what a good idea is if it had a neon sign "HTC approved, so shut up and enjoy it".

Then again most of the posts I see are just flames, about how someone else has limited reasoning abilities (like this one... flame on!!).

+ 100 :aok If I am sitting at the maproom with troops and nothing firing at me and a "Surrender" flag, my troops should take the maproom.
Valid points:

1) Ground vehicles are unable to see ground ack, without a GREAT deal of driving to specific locations. Do you have a map of them, anyone?

2) A flag is needed to tell if enough buildings are down, even if it were 100%, due to the fact that some buildings are hidden.

3) Town ack pops with a timer, so in reality, you can take them all down (everything that is firing), drive to the maproom, and still not know there is ack up to stop the capture, because someone prematurely killed an ack.

4) If ack is not in line of sight of the troops at the maproom, then it should not be able to injure any troops or prevent a capture. So, the way that capture conditions are currently, the white flag is misleading (period).
Title: Re: White Flag
Post by: Lusche on January 12, 2011, 01:46:52 PM: Quote from: LLogann on January 12, 2011, 01:40:18 PM
Sort of backs up what I just said Chilli...... The town's leader has raised the white flag at the maproom but who's to say the sniper in the bell tower got the message? Or will listen? KILL THE GUNS.

In a sad way it's even "realistic". Happened a lot when the western Allies crossed into Germany. A brave local mayor (or whoever tried to grab authority to show some responsibility) trying to save his town & people from senseless destruction, while some Wehrmacht or SS troops trying to continue the fight (and execute anyone showing signs of "surrender").
Title: Re: White Flag
Post by: lutzmax on January 12, 2011, 02:12:06 PM: Towns don't usually raise white flags because towns do not usually surrender. The military occupiers do the surrendering. Mayors who would try to raise a white flag when the local Commander is against it would be imprisoned or shot. I know of examples where some mayor tried to but was killed by the military. Any military commander who fought under a flag of truce would be a war criminal.
Anyone of authority in a town would be subject to recriminations (such as summary execution) if a white flag were raised and hostilities did not cease.
Yes, there were diehards who, as individuals, refused to surrender. Is that the standard we are using here?
Perhaps having the town's flag at half-mast to indicate the destruction % has been reached?

The gv arguments are pretty compelling.

Llogan, which 'civilisation' surrendered but continued to fight?
Title: Re: White Flag
Post by: LLogann on January 12, 2011, 02:44:43 PM: You didn't read any of what Lusche just said? I'll take his word for what the Wehrmacht did during the war.

And you don't have to be a WWII Historian to know it really happened; happened in every war in any time period.
Title: Re: White Flag
Post by: lutzmax on January 12, 2011, 04:22:20 PM: Llogan, I am sorry your mom paid more attention to your baby sister than you. I hope you get the attention you crave with your posts here.

Not only did I read everything Lusche wrote, I commented on it. I can even cite examples. I can even comment in German!
Lusche: War das nicht der Fall mit dem Burgermeister von Aachen?

You can't back up your statement on how 'civilisations ' surrendered but their 'forces' kept fighting. Don't pretend to be smart if you can't back it up.
Title: Re: White Flag
Post by: guncrasher on January 12, 2011, 04:55:23 PM: this is not ww2, its a game and we make the rules, subject to ah approval.

it's obscene to compare the white flag in our town, to what happened in ww2.

semp
Title: Re: White Flag
Post by: 1Boner on January 12, 2011, 04:59:57 PM: The flag is fine, the game is fine, play it.
Title: Re: White Flag
Post by: lutzmax on January 12, 2011, 06:37:45 PM: guncrasher:

I believe we are all aware that this is not WW2. Was that in question?

I don't see anyone comparing this to WW2 in any way that is disrespectful.

Posters in general:
How about actually discussing the point? You know, contribute to the discussion. if you don't like the idea, state why.
Comments like "The flag is fine" bring nothing to the table when others have already posted issues they are having. You know, discussing like adults? Pros vs. cons? Upside v. downside?

What a dissapointing baptism to this place. :salute
Title: Re: White Flag
Post by: Melvin on January 12, 2011, 06:57:19 PM: Quote from: Chilli on January 12, 2011, 01:29:11 PM
Seriously, most of you wouldn't have a clue what a good idea is if it had a neon sign "HTC approved, so shut up and enjoy it".

Then again most of the posts I see are just flames, about how someone else has limited reasoning abilities (like this one... flame on!!).

+ 100 :aok If I am sitting at the maproom with troops and nothing firing at me and a "Surrender" flag, my troops should take the maproom.
Valid points:

1) Ground vehicles are unable to see ground ack, without a GREAT deal of driving to specific locations. Do you have a map of them, anyone?

2) A flag is needed to tell if enough buildings are down, even if it were 100%, due to the fact that some buildings are hidden.

3) Town ack pops with a timer, so in reality, you can take them all down (everything that is firing), drive to the maproom, and still not know there is ack up to stop the capture, because someone prematurely killed an ack.

4) If ack is not in line of sight of the troops at the maproom, then it should not be able to injure any troops or prevent a capture. So, the way that capture conditions are currently, the white flag is misleading (period).

Number 4 is the real culprit here. Instead of arguing over the flag, perhaps we should lobby to have that changed.

lutz, I kind of thought we were having a discussion here.

Some agreed and some disagreed. We discussed everything from coding to historical relevance. I'm sure that nobody meant to insult you or your above average intelligence.

Your thin skin on the other hand..........
Title: Re: White Flag
Post by: Reaper90 on January 12, 2011, 09:01:32 PM: I vote HTC changes the white flag to a rainbow flag to denote how ghey this whine is........ :D :rofl :banana:
Title: Re: White Flag
Post by: lutzmax on January 12, 2011, 09:10:31 PM: My thin skin cannot compare to your imagination. Where do I say anything about being insulted?

You can't seem to post without dropping a snide remark. Is that helpful? You did it to every one of comments, including the initial thread.

There was a discussion. Some people contributed. Some people came and made stupid statements trying to pick a fight or to boost their inferiority complexes:

Quote from: LLogann on January 12, 2011, 12:36:53 PM
Civil Defense Forces may still have active anti-air units deployed in a town, but in no way does that constitute a NO SURRENDER clause to the active political powers..... ie. The Mayor. Throughout history civilizations have surrender while their forces were still fighting.

BIG MINUS ONE

If your SA is that bad, don't be a land grabber.

If you mean discrepancy, it isn't........ See Above.

Quote from: Reaper90 on January 12, 2011, 09:01:32 PM
I vote HTC changes the white flag to a rainbow flag to denote how ghey this whine is........ :D :rofl :banana:
Quote from: guncrasher on January 12, 2011, 04:55:23 PM
this is not ww2, its a game and we make the rules, subject to ah approval.

it's obscene to compare the white flag in our town, to what happened in ww2.

semp
Quote from: 1Boner on January 12, 2011, 04:59:57 PM
The flag is fine, the game is fine, play it.

disappointing indeed
Title: Re: White Flag
Post by: Delirium on January 12, 2011, 09:18:08 PM: If you'd like, they can just take the flag away so you can 'guess' when it is ready for capture.

I don't know, I don't understand the complaint. You'll know if the ack is down by flying near town.
Title: Re: White Flag
Post by: EskimoJoe on January 12, 2011, 09:26:39 PM: Quote from: LLogann on January 12, 2011, 02:44:43 PM
And you don't have to be a WWII Historian to know it really happened...

No, but you have to be a WWII Historian to know if what really happened, really happened.
Just sayin.
Title: Re: White Flag
Post by: TonyJoey on January 12, 2011, 10:56:08 PM: Quote from: Delirium on January 12, 2011, 09:18:08 PM
If you'd like, they can just take the flag away so you can 'guess' when it is ready for capture.

I don't know, I don't understand the complaint. You'll know if the ack is down by flying near town.

And you can also find out if a stove is on by feeling it, but that isn't a very efficient way of finding out.
Title: Re: White Flag
Post by: AWwrgwy on January 12, 2011, 11:26:12 PM: Quote from: TonyJoey on January 12, 2011, 10:56:08 PM
And you can also find out if a stove is on by feeling it, but that isn't a very efficient way of finding out.

But you can also hold your hand above the stove, not touching it, to get the same results. You just need to get in range of the range. :D

Quote from: lutzmax on January 12, 2011, 06:37:45 PM
Posters in general:
How about actually discussing the point? You know, contribute to the discussion. if you don't like the idea, state why.
Comments like "The flag is fine" bring nothing to the table when others have already posted issues they are having. You know, discussing like adults? Pros vs. cons? Upside v. downside?

What a dissapointing baptism to this place. :salute

"The Flag is fine" = "There is no problem".

Isn't that discussion or does he have to spell it out in more detail?

I imagine the "fix" would be to add the AAA to the Flag criteria.

Otherwise, do you strafe the map room before releasing troops? Should that be added to the flag criteria as well?

Things are pretty dumbed down now as it is. Is it really that hard to check the ack first or is that too much effort?

wrongway
Title: Re: White Flag
Post by: guncrasher on January 13, 2011, 12:36:30 AM: lutzmax this is my contribution to the thread.

Quote from: guncrasher on January 12, 2011, 04:05:25 AM
actually it would be a cool thing to have for when you are in a gv. I have let troops go right next to map room while in m3 and they all died. kept wondering why, till somebody flew over the town and I saw the ack shooting. but its one of those things that unless you have 2 flags, one for ack and one for building, would be pretty confusing. because you wont know if its buildings that need to be down or the ack.

semp

as for your ridiculous comparison between our game and what happened in ww2 combat. well, its just silly. here's your contribution

Quote from: lutzmax on January 12, 2011, 02:12:06 PM
Towns don't usually raise white flags because towns do not usually surrender. The military occupiers do the surrendering. Mayors who would try to raise a white flag when the local Commander is against it would be imprisoned or shot. I know of examples where some mayor tried to but was killed by the military. Any military commander who fought under a flag of truce would be a war criminal.
Anyone of authority in a town would be subject to recriminations (such as summary execution) if a white flag were raised and hostilities did not cease.
Yes, there were diehards who, as individuals, refused to surrender. Is that the standard we are using here?
Perhaps having the town's flag at half-mast to indicate the destruction % has been reached?

The gv arguments are pretty compelling.

Llogan, which 'civilisation' surrendered but continued to fight?

then look at your comments here:

Quote from: lutzmax on January 12, 2011, 09:10:31 PM
My thin skin cannot compare to your imagination. Where do I say anything about being insulted?

You can't seem to post without dropping a snide remark. Is that helpful? You did it to every one of comments, including the initial thread.

There was a discussion. Some people contributed. Some people came and made stupid statements trying to pick a fight or to boost their inferiority complexes:

disappointing indeed

now comparare that to this other remarks you made

Quote from: lutzmax on January 12, 2011, 04:22:20 PM
Llogan, I am sorry your mom paid more attention to your baby sister than you. I hope you get the attention you crave with your posts here.

oh man, you came here and insulted a lot of people then ask for a civilized dialogue. :rofl. almost everybody was agreeing with you at the begining once they actually understood what you were asking. but once you started your ww2 analogy then it made your case weak. lesson learned from this, wait a month or two then post again, and perhaps try not to insult the people that support your thread.

semp
Title: Re: White Flag
Post by: LLogann on January 13, 2011, 12:37:53 PM: Just another day on the BBS...... :D

Quote from: guncrasher on January 13, 2011, 12:36:30 AM

oh man, you came here and insulted a lot of people then ask for a civilized dialogue. :rofl. almost everybody was agreeing with you at the begining once they actually understood what you were asking. but once you started your ww2 analogy then it made your case weak. lesson learned from this, wait a month or two then post again, and perhaps try not to insult the people that support your thread.

semp

(and is it just me or did he mean to say thick skinned?)

Quote from: lutzmax on January 12, 2011, 09:10:31 PM
My thin skin cannot compare to your imagination.

And is it just me, or shouldn't my father have paid attention to the babysitter, not my Mom? :headscratch:
Title: Re: White Flag
Post by: DeadStik on January 14, 2011, 12:40:01 AM: These wishes always seem to end in BLOOD! We all seem to agree that the white flag is a "gamey" addition. I personally prefer it because a lot of headache existed without it. So now we debate the conditions upon which the flag is made white. If we're gonna have this flag feature, I would assume it should never be misleading. So, it turns white when the town is ready for troops. I still give this wish a thumbs up, despite the pointless (and pretty childish(and off-topic)) banter back and forth.
Title: Re: White Flag
Post by: grumpy37 on January 14, 2011, 01:47:47 AM: :aok +1 to that
Title: Re: White Flag
Post by: oTRALFZo on January 14, 2011, 03:52:47 AM: Quote from: DeadStik on January 14, 2011, 12:40:01 AM
These wishes always seem to end in BLOOD! We all seem to agree that the white flag is a "gamey" addition. I personally prefer it because a lot of headache existed without it. So now we debate the conditions upon which the flag is made white. If we're gonna have this flag feature, I would assume it should never be misleading. So, it turns white when the town is ready for troops. I still give this wish a thumbs up, despite the pointless (and pretty childish(and off-topic)) banter back and forth.

Its not misleading. Everyone I spoke too think it was a great additiion. When I first started, you couldnt take a town unless you had a min of 4 guys and NO flag. My graphics were so bad, I couldnt even see the town ack. The update has given everybody a shot and if you were any good, you can do it with 2 people. (Ive even experimented and quite a few times got a solo capture).

Captures now a days are screwed up by either 1) your freindlies attacked it and now its out of sync ( ack, or buildings pop), 2) you THINK you got everything down, but forgot that one ack 3) You got shot down

All 3 scenarios are the fault of the player, not the game setup. Call out on range for a freindly to kill the ack or get a squaddie to come over and help. No need to dumb down the game even more
Title: Re: White Flag
Post by: DERK13 on January 14, 2011, 12:20:40 PM: Quote from: Skuzzy on January 11, 2011, 03:59:37 PM
The "Wishlist" forum is for players to put out ideas they would like HiTech to consider for implementing in the game. The very name of your thread was not conducive to making a request. The post itself was not clear on anything being requested for the game.

This is not a forum to put forth gripes or complaints about the game.

It was my intention to lock that old thread so you might get off to a better start with a new one as that old thread was a bit obfuscated.

I made a comment in the original thread. I did not ask a question.
i wish for a complaint thread you know kinda like the wishlist and thegeneral discussion i want wanna those.....pretty plz skuzzy PLZ!
Title: Re: White Flag
Post by: Chilli on January 16, 2011, 03:26:52 PM: I came up with this from another wishlist. I think that it would solve the white flag circumstance problem discussed at length here.

From another wish list for Ambiance sounds:

"Thought about and :aok for the idea. :headscratch: On the application.

With the aid of soundpacks, some really cool battle effects can be created. I believe they would have to coincide with an identifiable event, like a bomb splash, after which someone yells out, "Medic!" or bomb whistle, "Cover my flank, incoming!"

Here is another useful one. As long as auto ack is up, you hear distant gun fire (whether or not it is actually firing). This will signal to the attackers that there are still ack up in a town or vehicle base. No more guessing."

Now, how easy is it for something like this to be coded, I don't know. I am just reaching when I assume that their is a "flag" (no pun intended) that signals the game that the town ack has been destroyed. A distant gunfire sound would play at reasonable intervals, and distances from the maproom until the game signals they no longer exist / have been destroyed. Although unnecessary, the direction of the ack could be followed audibly. I hear gunfire to my left, I direct my friend in a tank to check the east side of town for ack and he finds it.

If at all reasonable to do, it would increase the immersion into the game, using eyes and ears.
Title: Re: White Flag
Post by: ink on January 16, 2011, 03:58:22 PM: I cant believe they made it so only 50% of town is needed, and theres a flag to tell ya when its done, now they complain and want it even easier.......wow......just wow.......
Title: Re: White Flag
Post by: Chilli on January 16, 2011, 04:04:50 PM: Wow! Yet another complaint about complaints Ink, please give it a rest. If you aren't adding anything to a thread, respectfully, why post?

Bump!

I came up with this from another wishlist. I think that it would solve the white flag circumstance problem discussed at length here.

From another wish list for Ambiance sounds:

"Thought about and :aok for the idea. :headscratch: On the application.

With the aid of soundpacks, some really cool battle effects can be created. I believe they would have to coincide with an identifiable event, like a bomb splash, after which someone yells out, "Medic!" or bomb whistle, "Cover my flank, incoming!"

Here is another useful one. As long as auto ack is up, you hear distant gun fire (whether or not it is actually firing). This will signal to the attackers that there are still ack up in a town or vehicle base. No more guessing."

Now, how easy is it for something like this to be coded, I don't know. I am just reaching when I assume that their is a "flag" (no pun intended) that signals the game that the town ack has been destroyed. A distant gunfire sound would play at reasonable intervals, and distances from the maproom until the game signals they no longer exist / have been destroyed. Although unnecessary, the direction of the ack could be followed audibly. I hear gunfire to my left, I direct my friend in a tank to check the east side of town for ack and he finds it.

If at all reasonable to do, it would increase the immersion into the game, using eyes and ears.
Title: Re: White Flag
Post by: lyric1 on January 16, 2011, 05:02:49 PM: Quote from: lutzmax on January 11, 2011, 03:51:50 PM
The white flag at towns is a surrender flag. IRL I would expect a town to surrender after its defenses are down and it has been beaten into submission. In the current AH model that is not the case. The surrender flag goes out but ack is still shooting. I thought that was pretty clear from the postings.

The civilians said enough & threw the flag in town. How ever the army said keep shooting. :D
Title: Re: White Flag
Post by: LLogann on January 16, 2011, 09:02:10 PM: Say It Again!!!

Quote from: lyric1 on January 16, 2011, 05:02:49 PM
The civilians said enough & threw the flag in town. How ever the army said keep shooting. :D
Title: Re: White Flag
Post by: ink on January 16, 2011, 09:35:30 PM: lol wasnt complaining just observing at how sad it is.....dont like my responce dont read\respond to it, I mean cmon how friggin easy do you guys want it...... they dropped it to 50% of town and some silly flag to tell you when you reach that point and your still not happy......its really pathetic, ya thats my opinion....so whatever.......keep asking for the game to be dummy downed.....lol
Title: Re: White Flag
Post by: Chilli on January 17, 2011, 03:55:36 AM: Excuse me, for responding yet again, but I have posted twice in this thread and once in another thread how this could become a non issue. FIXED :pray

Let's not forget that the developers lowered the percentage of town buildings and put the flag by the maproom. Maybe they are seeing some things that some of us are missing.

In any case, who is to say what is gamey or not? A surrender flag, saying enough buildings are down? A town capture with 50% of buildings up? Or Scotty in the transporter room ready to beam your troops to the Enterprise if there is an undiscovered ack gun in the town (that is not even firing)?

Yes, not having to search every inch of town or a vehicle base makes captures easier. It also makes it playable from a ground unit's perspective.
Title: Re: White Flag
Post by: Dantoo on January 18, 2011, 07:46:09 PM: If I can tiptoe in here and add something:

Showing the flag as white only after the town ack is dead still leaves a (rare) problem. It's not just the auto-ack in a town that "wipes out" troops. If there is any live auto-ack within a certain defined range, then the troops will vanish even if that ack is on the field, not just the town.

On certain maps, the map room can be closer to the adjacent field than that effect range (its about 1.5k, I don't know). In this case, even if the all the town ack is down, then the troops still won't make it to the map room. You have to destroy the field ack that is inside the radius of effect.

Now there is a further possibility that I have no immediate knowledge of, or way of testing. Let's assume that the radius of effect is 1.5k. If a trooper is released outside and has to cross inside the radius of an auto-ack to get to a map room that is also outside the radius, does he still die? I think he does but it's a little bit of a special case to test.

The point of raising this question is to illustrate that there may be cases wherein that a white flag is up indicating that there is no live ack within range of the map room, but it can't ever indicate that there is no live ack within range of your running troops.

I can easily visualise the confusion and accusations flowing forth if a white flag is up and the troops still evaporate. Perhaps at this stage it would better to promulgate what actually happens and then use this information to educate the community. Lord knows I still see myths about dropping supplies on concrete and similar every day. "White flag up means no ack effect on running troops- err that's not really true" would be a headache and a half to explain.
Title: Re: White Flag
Post by: Chilli on January 19, 2011, 02:42:40 AM: Dantoo,

Good points. Is this theory, a bug, or from film experience, or some other method of testing? I am curious, because we should be able to test this offline if we know of towns and fields and on certain maps that fit the criteria.

Anyway, if we forget about the surrender flag and concentrate other alternatives. I gave one, have an audio of gun fire until ack is destroyed. We could make that sound play for any ack within a 2k radius - that would include field ack too. Someone else suggested that troops not be affected by ack that has no line of sight - so if it is not firing on the troops, it cannot injure the troops.
Title: Re: White Flag
Post by: flatiron1 on January 19, 2011, 02:54:37 AM: Quote from: Chilli on January 19, 2011, 02:42:40 AM
Dantoo,

Good points. Is this theory, a bug, or from film experience, or some other method of testing? I am curious, because we should be able to test this offline if we know of towns and fields and on certain maps that fit the criteria.

fact from experience. if the field is close better get the ones on the end of the runway.
Title: Re: White Flag
Post by: hitech on January 19, 2011, 09:20:32 AM: If any ack is living within 1.5 MILES the troops will die.
Title: Re: White Flag
Post by: grumpy37 on January 19, 2011, 09:45:03 AM: we have his attention! So its a proximity setting then? Is it possible to make the ack actually have to shoot the troops not just be within the 1.5 mile range? Are you guys planning on adjusting the flag settings any time soon?