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General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: TheRapier on January 16, 2011, 04:20:53 PM

Title: CV Puffy Ack
Post by: TheRapier on January 16, 2011, 04:20:53 PM
Just for curiousity's sake, how do folks feel about this? Anyone have strong feelings about the current implementation? Working/not working, ridiculous or sublime?
Title: Re: CV Puffy Ack
Post by: Blooz on January 16, 2011, 04:32:44 PM
Did something change?

It has always worked on me.

When the fleet puffy AAA starts bursting around me I turn my plane around and get out of range as fast as possible.
Title: Re: CV Puffy Ack
Post by: TinmanX on January 16, 2011, 04:51:39 PM
I don't mind the ack, gives my sub-woofer something to do and the cat just about craps itself if it happens to be laying on the thing at the time.
I do find it curious whenever by own ship auto puffy ack targets and kills me though.
Title: Re: CV Puffy Ack
Post by: BrownBaron on January 16, 2011, 05:12:11 PM
Have never been able to spend more than 2 minutes in the ack before it puffed my brains on to the wind screen or my pilot back in the tower.
Title: Re: CV Puffy Ack
Post by: RTHolmes on January 16, 2011, 05:20:56 PM
puffy ack is a funkiller, and the modelling is bs.
Title: Re: CV Puffy Ack
Post by: The Fugitive on January 16, 2011, 07:14:06 PM
I don't mind it, I just wish it hit bombers as fast and as hard as it dose fighters.
Title: Re: CV Puffy Ack
Post by: WYOKIDIII on January 16, 2011, 07:15:53 PM
I don't mind the ack, gives my sub-woofer something to do and the cat just about craps itself if it happens to be laying on the thing at the time.
I do find it curious whenever by own ship auto puffy ack targets and kills me though.



damn near fell outta my chair
Title: Re: CV Puffy Ack
Post by: kvuo75 on January 16, 2011, 07:54:39 PM
puffy ack is a funkiller, and the modelling is bs.

i concur.. i think the auto puffy should be done away with altogether.. but, I would make ALL the 5" guns mannable on all the ships


the magical 3000 ft cap the auto 5" provides to the attacking cv force is tedious, especially when the cv is parked right off shore. just because of the randomness of it.
Title: Re: CV Puffy Ack
Post by: grizz441 on January 16, 2011, 08:03:16 PM
It is ridiculous.

It serves a minimal realism purpose and also serves as a complete detriment to enjoyable game play at times.

I'm above 3k I'm getting pounded by puffy ack, I drop to 2.99k I'm safe.  I have the same probability of being struck directly over the carrier at 3k as I do at 25k on the fringe of its range.  :huh :huh :huh

 Fix it or be done with it.
Title: Re: CV Puffy Ack
Post by: LLogann on January 16, 2011, 08:54:10 PM
Even you?  EEK

It is ridiculous.


I find puffy ack to be just fine........   And the reason for it affecting fighters so much more than buffs is simple really........  The fighter is a much more fragile target, one burst will put a fighter out of it's misery half the time while a buff will absorb 2 or 3 hits from the puffy ack.   :aok
Title: Re: CV Puffy Ack
Post by: MarineUS on January 16, 2011, 10:20:31 PM
I am perfectly content with the puffy ack. I like it actually. I don't know why but I love flying a set of buffs through thick puffy :)
        *  *  *             *          *    *       *
  *   *  *  *  *      *         * *    *     * *   *
* * :airplane: * *      *        :airplane:  *    * *
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         * *  *          * *                *



 :joystick:
Title: Re: CV Puffy Ack
Post by: JOACH1M on January 16, 2011, 10:53:44 PM
The auto puffy is  WAY to accurate it will hit you no problem at 20k-up and 10k-out
Title: Re: CV Puffy Ack
Post by: kvuo75 on January 16, 2011, 11:31:17 PM
I am perfectly content with the puffy ack. I like it actually. I don't know why but I love flying a set of buffs through thick puffy :)
        *  *  *             *          *    *       *
  *   *  *  *  *      *         * *    *     * *   *
* * :airplane: * *      *        :airplane:  *    * *
  *  *  *  *  *  *           *    *                *
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 :joystick:

because it rarely even does minor damage to buffs. maybe a fuel tank, occasionally an engine oil hit.

A light fighter 5 miles out at 3001ft though, he will take a flight ending hit more times than not.   out of nowhere.. nobody gets the kill, the computer killed him. usually nobody even in range to get a proxy!

I dont know about you, but i'd rather be shot down by a real person than the AI.  otherwise i could just fly offline practice near a CV and get the same result.

Title: Re: CV Puffy Ack
Post by: Tyrannis on January 16, 2011, 11:40:46 PM
i dont think theres enough flak, on the cv or field. ive sunk a total of 27 cvs simply using b25s at 4k. i see puffy ack exploding around me, but it rarely hits me, and even if it does it doesnt do enough damage for me to be worryed about it.


i think cities need an increase in flak last week i had a total of 7 milk runs over rook city, not a single ack hit. (even flew through iit twice one time).
Title: Re: CV Puffy Ack
Post by: W7LPNRICK on January 16, 2011, 11:40:57 PM
I don't mind it, I just wish it hit bombers as fast and as hard as it dose fighters.

Yes! 3 great big lumbering bombers fly over & maybe one gets hit at 5k, with three or 4- 5" manned shooting at them. One lowly fighter ducking & dodging 5" guns gets killed at 8-11k before even starting the diving run.   :rolleyes:
Title: Re: CV Puffy Ack
Post by: kvuo75 on January 17, 2011, 05:21:27 AM
ive sunk a total of 27 cvs simply using b25s at 4k. i see puffy ack exploding around me, but it rarely hits me, and even if it does it doesnt do enough damage for me to be worryed about it.

proving the point.   :rofl
Title: Re: CV Puffy Ack
Post by: zack1234 on January 17, 2011, 05:24:55 AM
we need squad manable B17s all guns manned by squadies
Title: Re: CV Puffy Ack
Post by: RTHolmes on January 17, 2011, 06:22:47 AM
and thats relevant to puffy ack ... how? :headscratch:
Title: Re: CV Puffy Ack
Post by: rvflyer on January 17, 2011, 06:23:03 AM
We need more whine
Title: Re: CV Puffy Ack
Post by: Wiley on January 17, 2011, 10:02:03 AM
I think there should be puffy ack on the CVs, but I agree with people that the implementation needs an overhaul.

Degradation of accuracy at range definitely needs to be modeled.

I remember one sortie, I'd gotten to around 15k on climbout and saw a blip headed in on radar.  I got over to it, and there was a P51 at 20k licking his chops.  He's just rolling over to make his attack, when there's a blast of puffy ack from a CV nearby, and his plane exploded.  I felt bad for him, but I did have to admit how it happened was funny.

As for having puffy ack over land because they got the CV close...  At the risk of being unpopular, er... more unpopular, isn't letting their CV park 20 yards off your coast a rather colossal failure on your side's part for defense?  Just sayin...

Wiley.
Title: Re: CV Puffy Ack
Post by: hitech on January 17, 2011, 03:39:12 PM
I think there should be puffy ack on the CVs, but I agree with people that the implementation needs an overhaul.

Degradation of accuracy at range definitely needs to be modeled.
....
Wiley.

It all ready does.
Title: Re: CV Puffy Ack
Post by: waystin2 on January 17, 2011, 03:40:36 PM
It all ready does.

Thank you for listening Hitech. :aok
Title: Re: CV Puffy Ack
Post by: DrBone1 on January 17, 2011, 03:41:54 PM
and thats relevant to puffy ack ... how? :headscratch:
:lol dont mind Zack i dont think anybody understands him yet   ;)
Title: Re: CV Puffy Ack
Post by: Wiley on January 17, 2011, 03:45:13 PM
It all ready does.

Alright then.  Apologies, I had thought somewhere the general wisdom was that it was a single percentage to hit regardless of alt/distance.

It still seems awfully accurate at high alt to me, but it's perhaps a case of counting the hits and ignoring the misses.

Wiley.
Title: Re: CV Puffy Ack
Post by: Tyrannis on January 17, 2011, 03:47:24 PM
It all ready does.
could we get more flak over cities/HQ by chance? its not very deadly,the worst flak has ever done to me over city was cause an oil leak. it should be able to do more than that.
Title: Re: CV Puffy Ack
Post by: RTHolmes on January 17, 2011, 03:55:42 PM
hmm since HT is watching I'm going to revise my earlier post to:

puffy ack is a funkiller, and the modelling is ... disappointing given the care thats been put into modelling other aspects of the game. but I'm pretty sure its on the list to recoad at some point. :)



btw Tyrannis as a buff pilot you're really going to regret wishing for more puffy when it gets remodelled correctly ...
Title: Re: CV Puffy Ack
Post by: Tyrannis on January 17, 2011, 04:04:33 PM
hmm since HT is watching I'm going to revise my earlier post to:

puffy ack is a funkiller, and the modelling is ... disappointing given the care thats been put into modelling other aspects of the game. but I'm pretty sure its on the list to recoad at some point. :)



btw Tyrannis as a buff pilot you're really going to regret wishing for more puffy when it gets remodelled correctly ...
i wont, im not a score hore who loves milkruns to boost my buff score. i want a little challenge in it. most of the time noone ups against me when im over there city. and those who do dont know how to properly engage me. (except tripod, that guy has given my b24s hell every time i crossed into rook territory  :lol). so if noones going to up, the flak should be able to put up a good challenge.make it the terror it was in world war two.its exciting to be in the bomb sight, looking down at the city and seeing flak bursts explode in your crosshairs. and i personally like why my bombers take damage like engine failure,etc. it makes the flight back alot more challenging and keeps me on my toes. one the best times ive ever had over a city was in 24s, tripod had engaged me (i think twice) i eventually shot him down, but i was down to 1 b24 and i had 3 engines out, i still remember the frustration of trying to get a b24 with only one engine to climb over a hill  :airplane: :joystick:
Title: Re: CV Puffy Ack
Post by: RTHolmes on January 17, 2011, 04:09:57 PM
if its remodelled correctly, anything flying on the same vector for 20+s (ie. buffs, not fighters) within 20 miles of a director will be shredded. score potato or not, you wont even get to your drop point.
Title: Re: CV Puffy Ack
Post by: Baumer on January 17, 2011, 04:39:33 PM
Here's some interesting info on the VT fuse's.

http://www.hnsa.org/doc/vtfuze/index.htm (http://www.hnsa.org/doc/vtfuze/index.htm)

(http://www.hnsa.org/doc/vtfuze/img/cover.jpg)
Title: Re: CV Puffy Ack
Post by: W7LPNRICK on January 18, 2011, 12:03:54 AM
Good find, lots to read.  :salute
Title: Re: CV Puffy Ack
Post by: mensa180 on January 18, 2011, 12:59:44 AM
If as many people flew bombers as low around CVs as people did fighters, I think the bombers would die more.
Title: Re: CV Puffy Ack
Post by: zack1234 on January 18, 2011, 01:45:26 AM
and thats relevant to puffy ack ... how? :headscratch:

Its not so there :banana:
Title: Re: CV Puffy Ack
Post by: Vinkman on January 18, 2011, 08:45:44 AM
puffy ack is a funkiller, and the modelling is bs.

This is mostly my feeling.

I know they need something to fend off bombers, but the puffy is too accurate against fighters at ranges that are too long. Most CV furballs quickly de-volve into cv planes hiding in, or trying to drag enemies into the puffy for it to do thier work for them.  It becomes the dominant factor in the fight. And this with as little as one or two guns manned. I've been puffied to death be cv group that was almost out of visible range.

I just avoid CV fights altogether because of it. 
Title: Re: CV Puffy Ack
Post by: Shuffler on January 18, 2011, 09:00:14 AM
Puffy ack kills me often. I have no issue with it except when it is over a base because the cv can get so close.

I don't care for it's far reaching effects. I can't tell you how many times I am out of site of the cv and been killed when I was not even approaching the thing.
Title: Re: CV Puffy Ack
Post by: Vinkman on January 18, 2011, 10:37:17 AM
TJust a thought on Puffy improvement....


Maybe puffy could be recoded to be acurate in a more vertical cone over the CV for anti Bomber use, but leas acurate when used horizontally. By acurate I mean the proximity range for the explosion, and the variation of the trajectory when fired. 

Side effect would be gunners would be confused by the changing accuracy. But maybe that's a better trade off.  :salute
Title: Re: CV Puffy Ack
Post by: Tyrannis on January 18, 2011, 10:40:30 AM
This is mostly my feeling.

I know they need something to fend off bombers, but the puffy is too accurate against fighters at ranges that are too long. Most CV furballs quickly de-volve into cv planes hiding in, or trying to drag enemies into the puffy for it to do thier work for them.  It becomes the dominant factor in the fight. And this with as little as one or two guns manned. I've been puffied to death be cv group that was almost out of visible range.

I just avoid CV fights altogether because of it. 

also, puffy ack should damage friendly planes aswell.if a dora is stupid enough to go plowing through his own friendly flak in pursuit of a b17 he should take some damage too.
Title: Re: CV Puffy Ack
Post by: zack1234 on January 18, 2011, 10:51:57 AM
:lol dont mind Zack i dont think anybody understands him yet   ;)

Have you left The Few yet? :banana:
Title: Re: CV Puffy Ack
Post by: doc1kelley on January 18, 2011, 10:54:30 AM
Thank you for listening Hitech. :aok

I think you are missing the point in Hitech's response.  He stated that it already does and NOT that it needs to be re-modeled.

All the Best...

    Jay

Title: Re: CV Puffy Ack
Post by: Scca on January 18, 2011, 11:33:24 AM
also, puffy ack should damage friendly planes aswell.if a dora is stupid enough to go plowing through his own friendly flak in pursuit of a b17 he should take some damage too.
It does.  Take it from someone who has died to "friendly" CV ack more than once.
Title: Re: CV Puffy Ack
Post by: Vinkman on January 18, 2011, 11:49:40 AM
It all ready does.

Always so cryptic?  ;)

Is there an auto puffy ack, and a manual puffy ack?  (Perhaps we're all complaining about manned 5" guns hitting us at great ans short distances.) If there is an auto setting, perhaps it's properly modelled.
But then why are manned guns left to be so acurate?
Do you feel manned guns are more effective then auto guns?
Do you think the acuracy of manned guns creates realistic effectiveness, or hyper-effectiveness?

Can you clarify?

Thanks,  :salute


Vinkman
Title: Re: CV Puffy Ack
Post by: LLogann on January 18, 2011, 02:17:54 PM
It doesn't seem too cryptic.

It all ready does.

Degradation of accuracy at range definitely needs to be modeled.

Wiley.
Title: Re: CV Puffy Ack
Post by: kvuo75 on January 19, 2011, 08:56:54 AM
Always so cryptic?  ;)

Is there an auto puffy ack, and a manual puffy ack?  (Perhaps we're all complaining about manned 5" guns hitting us at great ans short distances.) Vinkman

we're talkin about the auto.. the type you magically start hearing popping around you soon as you go above 3000 ft near a cv or over strats.  the type that rarely damages a box of straight and level buffs intent on killing the cv, but shreds maneuvering fighters just trying to survive.

Title: Re: CV Puffy Ack
Post by: MarineUS on January 19, 2011, 12:06:53 PM
maybe they should fly straight like the buffs? Maybe that's the trick O_O
Title: Re: CV Puffy Ack
Post by: Wiley on January 19, 2011, 12:46:07 PM
Hmm...  Maybe that is the secret.

One story that always stuck in my head talking to a guy that flew over Vietnam was, they jinked every 2 or 3 seconds when they were over AA. If you flew straight any longer, the guy had enough time to sight on you, and for the round to get there.

Thinking about that for a second, it occurred to me that if that was the case, any round that actually hit you was technically a 'miss', because if he was aiming along your vector before you jinked, and it hit you after you jinked it was because it didn't hit where he was aiming.

Maybe it's because the puffy ack is programmed to theoretically miss the fighter, because he's maneuvering he flies into it...

Wiley.
Title: Re: CV Puffy Ack
Post by: Crash Orange on January 19, 2011, 03:40:43 PM
As for having puffy ack over land because they got the CV close...  At the risk of being unpopular, er... more unpopular, isn't letting their CV park 20 yards off your coast a rather colossal failure on your side's part for defense? 

It would be, if you had any way of knowing it was approaching unless someone ups a plane from it.

Always seemed kinda silly to me that a lone PT boat 12.4 miles out will flash the base but a whole CV group 200 yards offshore (sometimes parts of it even sailing right across the land) won't.

Title: Re: CV Puffy Ack
Post by: Wiley on January 19, 2011, 04:24:10 PM
It would be, if you had any way of knowing it was approaching unless someone ups a plane from it.

Always seemed kinda silly to me that a lone PT boat 12.4 miles out will flash the base but a whole CV group 200 yards offshore (sometimes parts of it even sailing right across the land) won't.



See my wishlist thread. :D

Wiley.
Title: Re: CV Puffy Ack
Post by: Vinkman on January 24, 2011, 01:09:48 PM
Flying at 24K in a 109 over the vastness of the ocean on my way to an enemy base and was killed by a direct hit from Auto Puffy ack, from a CV I couldn't even see. Just ridiculous.

While I'm at the "flack" rant, the manned 5" is also a joke.  20,000 power telescopic zoom, and no recoil, makes it easy for folks to snipe fighters from 5K and beyond.  Really? 3mile sniping shots? Could a flak gunner even see planes from 3 miles away? When the guns are manned, a dead zone around the CV exists, the size of half a sector. 

"The death star is operational"


Gamey, and unrealistic, and a fun killer.

Vinkman
Title: Re: CV Puffy Ack
Post by: Ratpack1 on January 24, 2011, 02:20:47 PM
I seem to be the odd man out when it comes to the puffy. Umm... :bolt:

whenever a group of us are flying around a cv, no matter how high or far, I always get nailed.

This is the best interpretation of the puffy ack I can surmise. (I posted this a while back if it looks familiar)
(http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee46/presto731/ack.jpg)