Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: captain1ma on February 11, 2011, 09:12:59 PM
-
Introducing our latest terrain in the AVA thanks to USRanger. Guadalcanal-- come in and take a look at it. its a beautiful map. thanks for all your hard work USRanger! we all appreciate it! :aok
PS. yes this is yet another shameless plug for the AVA!
-
Introducing our latest terrain in the AVA thanks to USRanger. Guadalcanal-- come in and take a look at it. its a beautiful map. thanks for all your hard work USRanger! we all appreciate it! :aok
PS. yes this is yet another shameless plug for the AVA!
(http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa135/1LTCAP/OPEN24HOURS-7cm.gif)(http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa135/1LTCAP/avajoke.gif)
-
:salute
-
i'd love to fly in the AvA.
but sadly my eyes arent really good enough to spot targets :(
-
i'd love to fly in the AvA.
but sadly my eyes arent really good enough to spot targets :(
if you can spot targets in the other arenas, you can spot them here too.
and guys....i've not been in because i'[ve been exhausted by the days end, and my shoulder is still effing with me......i'm gonna try to be in tonight though, to see this map in action. :aok
-
i'd love to fly in the AvA.
but sadly my eyes arent really good enough to spot targets :(
i have similar problems, but when they start shooting at ya, they light up like a Christmas tree :D
-
i'd love to fly in the AvA.
but sadly my eyes arent really good enough to spot targets :(
don't fool yourself tyrannis...if you're not afraid to be cannon fodder for a few hours, you will get the hang of things and have some fun...most of the guys in there are old, overweight, myopic and have bad beer breath...
this new map from usranger is a very fun work of art...and i hate pto setups...
-
(http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/9590/ahfilm2011021215164562.jpg) (http://img687.imageshack.us/i/ahfilm2011021215164562.jpg/)
Join us tonight for round 2!
-
(http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/9590/ahfilm2011021215164562.jpg) (http://img687.imageshack.us/i/ahfilm2011021215164562.jpg/)
Join us tonight for round 2!
just an FYI ranger? you're supposed to have that other airplane in FRONT of ya. yer guns work better that way. :bolt: :airplane:
-
Heehee I WAS teh Zeke. :aok
-
CAP's eyes are starting to go?
:O
-
CAP's eyes are starting to go?
:O
i just checked. looked in the mirror. they're still right there, below my forehead, on each side of my nose. :bolt:
-
But if you shine a light in your face do the pupils dilate? :x
-
But if you shine a light in your face do the pupils dilate? :x
well.....first off, it would be somewhat difficult to get a light in my face....and rather painful. secondly, once it was placed in my face......how would i turn it on, and how would it dilate my pupils? :bolt: :airplane:
-
There is alot of intrinsic stuff in there................... That I would love to hear about as a former contractor for the US Military. PM me what happened?
well.....first off, it would be somewhat difficult to get a light in my face....and rather painful. secondly, once it was placed in my face......how would i turn it on, and how would it dilate my pupils? :bolt: :airplane:
-
beautiful terrain USRanger. well done & congratulations!
-
(http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/6214/g13v.jpg) (http://img41.imageshack.us/i/g13v.jpg/)
After the scenario tonight, I invite all of ya to the AvA for some serious PTO furballing. If it's anything like last night, there will be a ton of non-stop action. :rock
:salute
(http://img602.imageshack.us/img602/6290/g16.jpg) (http://img602.imageshack.us/i/g16.jpg/)
-
well.....first off, it would be somewhat difficult to get a light in my face....and rather painful. secondly, once it was placed in my face......how would i turn it on, and how would it dilate my pupils? :bolt: :airplane:
Here you go Logan. I think he has to swallow it first. Then......
(http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRTZTCCezWFw3IOC2p1KyRZyBghQ7qhpuOrto_3L0OiKCtkOKi6ww)
I think this might turn it on....
(http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQXdJgKDGa3S4lx9vvYiMYTFIxVcPjj4LZwMOfhyenW013SEFrP)
Nevermind, that makes you go blind......... haven't figured the dilated part yet :headscratch:
(http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQp5slflA0ARHvFGDw7LOXRgCsDcgTBMwyZsg1wFaxOQIDZsm1XOA)
Ranger,
Nice job sir. You guys get in there and take screen shots. My video card died, and I will be working on another system so that I can at least get a PCIe card. Post screenies please. :pray
-
any chance we could get an image of the map?
-
if you can spot targets in the other arenas, you can spot them here too.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,254180.msg3135888.html#msg3135888 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,254180.msg3135888.html#msg3135888)
-
any chance we could get an image of the map?
Some pics, though none of the clipboard, sorry.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,306505.0.html
-
Nice terrain, but .... is it my monitor or is the sky color just a tad too purple ?
-
Nice terrain, but .... is it my monitor or is the sky color just a tad too purple ?
its the mixture of my blood with the blue sky
-
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,254180.msg3135888.html#msg3135888 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,254180.msg3135888.html#msg3135888)
i see bnzs is still pouting...should go to an airshow with a good rangefinder...learn some things
Nice terrain, but .... is it my monitor or is the sky color just a tad too purple ?
it might be...the sky settings can be modified in the arena table and the colors you see are dependent on how your monitor renders them...i've noticed some purple at times too, but i'm usually too busy admiring the parts flying off my toon plane to pay much attention.
-
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,254180.msg3135888.html#msg3135888 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,254180.msg3135888.html#msg3135888)
if i had to take a guess, that con in the pic you linked is in the ballpark of 1,000 to 1,500 yards, although i'm not totally sure. i know i'd lose him in a low fight......
-
Some pics, though none of the clipboard, sorry.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,306505.0.html
looks great! fantastic work!
-
Nice terrain, but .... is it my monitor or is the sky color just a tad too purple ?
That's due to my offline settings which showed up in the film viewer.
-
That's due to my offline settings which showed up in the film viewer.
Wasn't your screenshots ... I took a flight around yesterday.
-
Wow! USRanger, you've done magic! My compliments!
I wish we could have some MA arena's with that "flavor" of map. I get real tired of the same map flavor all the time...
I'm even tempted to give the AvA another shot...
Alas, no planes I'm interested in...
-
i see bnzs is still pouting...should go to an airshow with a good rangefinder...learn some things
No, you are still insisting on the provably incorrect notion that computer screens can give anywhere near a realistic representation of a human's visual acuity. There isn't really even any debate about this. You don't think a real pilot can ID a plane from 2,500 yards? Tallys have occured in clear air at 25 *miles*.
I can tell a Mooney from a Cessna at 6,000 feet distance...and I wear glasses. BTW, that collection of pixels is a 109K4 at far less than half a mile. That screenie more or less proves my point without another argument needing to be made. No icons simulate legally blind pilots, and making that the "default" setting in the AvA is yet another example of that arena shooting itself in the foot in terms of popularity.
-
No, you are still insisting on the provably incorrect notion that computer screens can give anywhere near a realistic representation of a human's visual acuity. There isn't really even any debate about this. You don't think a real pilot can ID a plane from 2,500 yards? Tallys have occured in clear air at 25 *miles*.
I can tell a Mooney from a Cessna at 6,000 feet distance...and I wear glasses. BTW, that collection of pixels is a 109K4 at far less than half a mile. That screenie more or less proves my point without another argument needing to be made. No icons simulate legally blind pilots, and making that the "default" setting in the AvA is yet another example of that arena shooting itself in the foot in terms of popularity.
was i correct? in the ballpark of D1000 to D1500?
i don't think any of us are sayin that our monitors are as good as the human eye....but it sure as hell is fun to fly without the icons.....and in a close in knife fight....it adds many new dimensions to this wonderful game.
-
was i correct? in the ballpark of D1000 to D1500?
i don't think any of us are sayin that our monitors are as good as the human eye....but it sure as hell is fun to fly without the icons.....and in a close in knife fight....it adds many new dimensions to this wonderful game.
No, the distance was -800.
-
No, the distance was -800.
so i was in the ballpark. :aok
-
so i was in the ballpark. :aok
No. Over 2000 feet is not "in the ball park". It is the difference between well out of guns danger and within plausible range to land hits and nearly close enough for a good guns solution. The difference in timing your break or another maneuver that this impreciscion in range could make for is also immense.
-
And let us not forget that our computer monitor is FAR BETTER than our eyes! :salute
-
Who cares, people are having a good time.WTF?
-
Who cares, people are having a good time.WTF?
BnZ is not having a good time. That's fine, clearly the AvA - no matter what the settings - will not please everyone.
Thanks for trying it out BnZ.
- oldman
-
BnZ is not having a good time. That's fine, clearly the AvA - no matter what the settings - will not please everyone.
Thanks for trying it out BnZ.
- oldman
I think the AvA is the best idea anyone ever had for an arena...EXCEPT for the no icons setting becoming standard. I still enjoy other events that present a historical matchup from time to time.
-
No, you are still insisting on the provably incorrect notion that computer screens can give anywhere near a realistic representation of a human's visual acuity. There isn't really even any debate about this. You don't think a real pilot can ID a plane from 2,500 yards? Tallys have occured in clear air at 25 *miles*.
I can tell a Mooney from a Cessna at 6,000 feet distance...and I wear glasses. BTW, that collection of pixels is a 109K4 at far less than half a mile. That screenie more or less proves my point without another argument needing to be made. No icons simulate legally blind pilots, and making that the "default" setting in the AvA is yet another example of that arena shooting itself in the foot in terms of popularity.
I Agree and dissagree. I agree with your resolution of the eye argument but dissagree on the effect. In real life pilots got snuck up on all the time. Diving planes were lost in the visiual canopy. With icons everyone is seen, all the time. Incredibly un-realistic. what's the point of camoflage paint schemes if you have a giant neon red icon over your head? while the ability to not distignuish friend from foe is little more limited in the clear blue sky than it would be in real life, overall I think the no icon set up is closer to reality in terms of the strategy that arises out visually finding the enemy then the MA set up with Icons. I think the icons over compensate by a wide margin.
No icons is one of the things I love best about AVA.
No map Guandal canal, P-39s vs Zekes! I so there. See you tonight.
-
No. Over 2000 feet is not "in the ball park". It is the difference between well out of guns danger and within plausible range to land hits and nearly close enough for a good guns solution. The difference in timing your break or another maneuver that this impreciscion in range could make for is also immense.
if you said he was d800, and i guessed d1000 to d1500......i don';t see how that can be over 2000 ft. that being said, i've not had a con look that small at shooting distance in my gunsight.
-
Incredibly un-realistic. what's the point of camoflage paint schemes if you have a giant neon red icon over your head? while the ability to not distignuish friend from foe is little more limited in the clear blue sky than it would be in real life, overall I think the no icon set up is closer to reality in terms of the strategy that arises out visually finding the enemy then the MA set up with Icons. I think the icons over compensate by a wide margin.
I don't see the camouflage having any effect in the game anyway, due to the close range where other planes just turn into a light or dark grey plane, or a black plane, or a dot. In order for me to see the paint-scheme well enough to detect a shapes, patterns, or any kind of "subtle" color differences, I need to be inside of D200, and realistically closer to about 100-150 yards. If you're further away than that, your paint scheme plays no part.
Beyond that range, all paint schemes blend into an overall "light" or "dark" mass. Anyone who uses camouflage in real life knows that once your pattern shifts to a general "light" or "dark", you've lost all effectiveness.
Compare that to real life... I regularly watch sky divers on my way to and from work. That's handy because I know exactly where they jump and land, so it's easy for me to know how far away they are (they land 100yds off the side of the highway). I can see color details (as well as "form" details) from 2.5 to three miles out (which would be at 5K range in game). Due to that, I can actually "lose" them against a colored background. Not so in the game... No ability to see form or color at that range, and the plane is a black dot, which easily shows up at that range. In RL, I can see car color, and my ability to detect "friend" from "foe" is drastically improved over the game graphics. I can pick out a cop by subtle colors/patterns/shapes that are invisible in game at any range.
Now, in RL I have above-average color "ability" and knowledge, and I'm sensitive to a lot of things about it that most folks aren't, so that may play a part. In game, I'm running a good computer, with a good, large-screen monitor, at Hi-Res with the Hi-Res pack. There's no comparison between RL and game visuals.
I do agree, however, that the icons make it too easy. I just don't see the "no icons" setting as making up for that. It skews reality at least as far the other way...
-
No, you are still insisting on the provably incorrect notion that computer screens can give anywhere near a realistic representation of a human's visual acuity. There isn't really even any debate about this. You don't think a real pilot can ID a plane from 2,500 yards? Tallys have occured in clear air at 25 *miles*.
I can tell a Mooney from a Cessna at 6,000 feet distance...and I wear glasses. BTW, that collection of pixels is a 109K4 at far less than half a mile. That screenie more or less proves my point without another argument needing to be made. No icons simulate legally blind pilots, and making that the "default" setting in the AvA is yet another example of that arena shooting itself in the foot in terms of popularity.
actually, the computer monitor and video card can render objects a lot better than you give it credit...it's the applications that dictate what information gets sent to the hardware...unfortunately the data needed for full scale rendering like would be seen in military/commercial grade flight simulators, is not conducive to massive multiplayer applications.
as for your 2500 yard (7500 feet) positive id charge...don't make the mistake of thinking that a positive id on a 50 foot long object is possible from more than a mile away to everyone who ever flies or flew an airplane...spotting an object is one thing...positive id is another...it's very well documented that erroneous ID's were made constantly, on friend and foe alike.
but this is all off topic on this particular discussion. if you want to pursue it further...start another convo in the ava forums.
-
I don't see the camouflage having any effect in the game anyway, due to the close range where other planes just turn into a light or dark grey plane, or a black plane, or a dot. In order for me to see the paint-scheme well enough to detect a shapes, patterns, or any kind of "subtle" color differences, I need to be inside of D200, and realistically closer to about 100-150 yards. If you're further away than that, your paint scheme plays no part.
Beyond that range, all paint schemes blend into an overall "light" or "dark" mass. Anyone who uses camouflage in real life knows that once your pattern shifts to a general "light" or "dark", you've lost all effectiveness.
Compare that to real life... I regularly watch sky divers on my way to and from work. That's handy because I know exactly where they jump and land, so it's easy for me to know how far away they are (they land 100yds off the side of the highway). I can see color details (as well as "form" details) from 2.5 to three miles out (which would be at 5K range in game). Due to that, I can actually "lose" them against a colored background. Not so in the game... No ability to see form or color at that range, and the plane is a black dot, which easily shows up at that range. In RL, I can see car color, and my ability to detect "friend" from "foe" is drastically improved over the game graphics. I can pick out a cop by subtle colors/patterns/shapes that are invisible in game at any range.
Now, in RL I have above-average color "ability" and knowledge, and I'm sensitive to a lot of things about it that most folks aren't, so that may play a part. In game, I'm running a good computer, with a good, large-screen monitor, at Hi-Res with the Hi-Res pack. There's no comparison between RL and game visuals.
I do agree, however, that the icons make it too easy. I just don't see the "no icons" setting as making up for that. It skews reality at least as far the other way...
:salute just to make a case for why I think no icon is actually more realistic.
On the Eastern front Gunter Rall and Erich Hartmann spoke at length about being massively out numbers by russian aircraft, and that visual stealth was a key factor in ambush tactics which were vital to their success in shooting down aircraft but also in their escape afforts. The Hartmann defense as described by Hartmann is employed with a bandit on his six oclock. The manuever begins wish a banked turn to one side where the persuer follows. When the bandit tries to pull lead, Hartmann would push negative Gs away from the bandit and roll way into a new direction. Out of sight below the nose, he was in the bandits blind spot a few seconds. In Hartmann's own words, this was enough to lose any bandit "as the German camoflage paints scheme made the planes practically invisible when viewed from above". [note: I'll try to fight the page referense for the quote] He also used such visual stealth to zoom below enemy aircraft heading at him, and pull up behind them. It seems impractical to assume that most pilots got ambushed because they weren't paying attention. I think visual stealth of aircraft was a bigger factor than folks give it credit for. Icons make visual stealth impossible.
I do agree that dots could appear sooner, but if you think about it from the persective of "was visual stealth a factor in WWII air combat, and was it a big factor?" I think no-icon is closer the truth than Icon, for recreating the strategy and tacts employ during the war. In AvA I've litterally lost aircraft I was dogfighting when I got advantage and they broke and dove to the deck. I think this adds a demention that is lost in MA, but was present in real life. I agree that it might be stealthier than it was in real life, but for one arena to have that tactical element is a nice change of pace.
Anyway, just my two cents. :salute
-
THE dots in this arena appear at over 6k yards, just like they do in the other arenas.
camo does indeed play a rather large part in this arena as well. i've used it to gain advantage, and i've lost advantage due to this. especially against german aircraft. their camo is probably the best in game.
when i fight them over the water, never a problem....get into a low alt knife fight with em......different story. i've also had some dive away from me when in medium and high alt fights. they're not running. they're using that tool to re-gain advantage.
as for positively id'ing an aircraft over 2 miles away? i don't think so. as for seeing colors on a person that far away? if you can, i think the us govt. may want to be having a talk with you.
i fully understand that some people may not like fighting with the lack of icons. i've no problem with this. but to come and say this is harder than flying with them........it's not. it is simply a different set of skills to fight without them, nothing more, nothign less.
as i've stated in other threads, this arena is probably the best thing that's happened to my cartoon self. although i never thought i was, i was a very timid fighter in the mw arena. this became obvious in the ava. it caused me to change my fighting style to a much more aggressive one.
-
I enjoy the ava. My eyes are not what they used to be either. :)
-
I enjoy the ava. My eyes are not what they used to be either. :)
not what they used to be? what did they used to be? you'd look pretty silly if they used to be ears or something........ :bolt:
-
as for positively id'ing an aircraft over 2 miles away? i don't think so. as for seeing colors on a person that far away? if you can, i think the us govt. may want to be having a talk with you.
You would be horribly wrong, and proven so hundreds of times here by actual real world combat pilots, airline pilots, REAL PEOPLE looking at REAL THINGS and telling you flat out "Yes, I can easily ID that Cessna on approach off my left wing 2 miles out"
Sorry, you're wrong, and have been proven so a million times on the forum from all the past discussions on the matter to date. You can spot individual tail codes on planes flying quite a ways off in real life. In this game? Hell you'd have a hard time reading them less than 50 yards away. There is no comparison at all.
I have a cousin who's legally blind... I recall once watching TV with him. He had to sit 2 feet away from a 24" screen (about as close as comfortably possible) just to make things out.
That's like what AH is, comapared to a real person sitting 10 feet back on a couch and still being able to read subtitles.
-
Well now, this thread's gone just a tad off course. :lol
-
Well now, this thread's gone just a tad off course. :lol
Ranger haven't seen the new terrain yet, but will check it tonight. :salute. Thanks in advance for all the hard work you put into it. :aok. change and variety are what keeps many of us coming back for more.
-
You would be horribly wrong, and proven so hundreds of times here by actual real world combat pilots, airline pilots, REAL PEOPLE looking at REAL THINGS and telling you flat out "Yes, I can easily ID that Cessna on approach off my left wing 2 miles out"
identifying a cessna a mile away from the cockpit of a 747 is one thing, positive identification of a spit or a 109 or p-40 at the same distance in war time is another...that is also well documented
if distant objects in ah were rendered differently...we could better identify aircraft at long range...as it is, you could put a sherman a mile out and it would present the same pixel pattern as a p-47
nobody is telling you or anyone else with the same arguments that you have to like it...it's a personal preference that a growing number of people are finding enjoyable
-
identifying a cessna a mile away from the cockpit of a 747 is one thing, positive identification of a spit or a 109 or p-40 at the same distance in war time is another...that is also well documented
if distant objects in ah were rendered differently...we could better identify aircraft at long range...as it is, you could put a sherman a mile out and it would present the same pixel pattern as a p-47
one of the books i read(combat crew by john comer) detailed how the gunners used to mistake p-47's for focke wulfs.....due to the radial engine.
-
You would be horribly wrong, and proven so hundreds of times here by actual real world combat pilots, airline pilots, REAL PEOPLE looking at REAL THINGS and telling you flat out "Yes, I can easily ID that Cessna on approach off my left wing 2 miles out"
Sorry, you're wrong, and have been proven so a million times on the forum from all the past discussions on the matter to date. You can spot individual tail codes on planes flying quite a ways off in real life. In this game? Hell you'd have a hard time reading them less than 50 yards away. There is no comparison at all.
I have a cousin who's legally blind... I recall once watching TV with him. He had to sit 2 feet away from a 24" screen (about as close as comfortably possible) just to make things out.
That's like what AH is, comapared to a real person sitting 10 feet back on a couch and still being able to read subtitles.
Krusty this is over analysis. Being able to see the serial number on a plane at two miles is fine. AH will never represent that. But I don't need to read the serial number on a tail to know it's an enemy. I don't even need to know the plane type. I just need to be able to see a plane or not see a plane. For most of what you need to assertain in AH, It's a binary system. Either I see a plane or don't see a plane. At the point where I see a dot, just like MA, I'm reacting to it. Saying Icons are required to make up for all this pixel/screen resolution/human eye fidelity stuff is just over kill.
All of what you say about human eyesight vs AH is true. But you still don't need icons. They don't just compensate for the loss of visual fidelity, they completely change the human visual dynamic.
-
great Terrain USRanger! we had a blast in there last night. some people like it, some dont. thats life! by the way, the complaint about the slightly purplely sky. dont touch it, i love the affect it has. keep up the good work!
-
great Terrain USRanger! we had a blast in there last night. some people like it, some dont. thats life! by the way, the complaint about the slightly purplely sky. dont touch it, i love the affect it has. keep up the good work!
it is one of the best terrains i've seen. :aok
-
I think no-icon is closer the truth than Icon, for recreating the strategy and tacts employ during the war.
This. Suddenly real world tactics make sense.
- oldman
-
identifying a cessna a mile away from the cockpit of a 747 is one thing, positive identification of a spit or a 109 or p-40 at the same distance in war time is another...that is also well documented
A Cessna 172 and a 109 have almost the exact same length and wingspan. And the 109 is a smallish fighter.
-
A Cessna 172 and a 109 have almost the exact same length and wingspan. And the 109 is a smallish fighter.
i think a 172N has a 35 foot wingspan, and is around 35 feet long. and i don't think anyone could really read the tail number at a mile away. i could be wrong though.......
-
Some say the arena is an acquired taste. I say that the Guadalcanal map was done in very GOOD taste.
Icons aside, the quick action IS what turns out to be the icing on the cake for me. I log in and hang around taking a look at the scenery and in a manner of minutes an empty arena is buzzing with potential combatants. Sometimes the intense 1 v 1 or even better furballs, drain me in about 45 fun packed minutes. I can sit in the MA, just about all day and not come close to the intensity of fight that just occurred in minutes.
I do love my MA battles, missions and base takes, but when it comes down to enjoying a terrain, noticing something new in almost every turn and trying out tactics, as Oldman said, nothing delivers as much bang in an arena available all day long.
If Special Events arenas went for 24 hrs a day, this is somewhat like I would imagine it to be. :rock
-
bnz-- the whole icon thing has you all twisted up. if we all had shotguns mounted on our monitors, and it would go off when we got shot down, icons would actually matter. Since that doesn't happen, it boils down to being a game. some like icons, some don't. we respect the fact that you dont like icons because of poor eye sight. im very sorry that eye sight is a contention with you and keeping you out of the AVA. i guess that's our loss. since eye sight is the reason i feel you should continue to fly in the Main arena's just for ease of finding bad guys.
for those of us who find the no icons more realistic, and can see planes(barely), we don't really deserve a chastising for playing that way. to be honest, i lose planes right in front of me all the time and actually use their shadows to catch them. is it like reality? no! i fly with a friend in a cesna all the time. at 2 miles you can tell if its a high wing or a low wing plane, but not much else. but then again this isn't reality, so who cares! its fun and exciting for us flying without icons, as much as it is fun and exciting for you flying with icons. we all have our preferences. lets agree to disagree about icons and just have fun! have a nice day :)
-
Uh, no. My eyesight has nothing to do with it. Corrected to 20/20, especially at monitor distance! :D BTW, 24'' monitor running the game at 1024x768 with hi-res texture and all the "candy" cranked up...so that piece of equipment is about as good for anyone for seeing.
However, there is some other equipment that could make difference. Having done some experiments with zoom, and mouse view, I can see why by using greater level of zoom than and the ability to pan quickly, TrackIR can make the proposition more practical than for those who have been playing the game forever with a simple hatswitch for view.
For the record, I don't think icons as we know them now are an ideal solution either. I have some ideas about "iconography", but that is for another topic.
On the other hand, things like TrackIR, bigger and better monitors, higher resolutions, TripleHead, etc, could quite possibly render the whole point moot and make icons something we tell our grandkids about...assuming the genre survives. *crosses fingers*
Here the most important point I want to make: I don't think no icons being the standard setting for the AvA *all the time* is a good idea. I'd like to see some compromise here.
bnz-- the whole icon thing has you all twisted up. if we all had shotguns mounted on our monitors, and it would go off when we got shot down, icons would actually matter. Since that doesn't happen, it boils down to being a game. some like icons, some don't. we respect the fact that you dont like icons because of poor eye sight. im very sorry that eye sight is a contention with you and keeping you out of the AVA. i guess that's our loss. since eye sight is the reason i feel you should continue to fly in the Main arena's just for ease of finding bad guys.
for those of us who find the no icons more realistic, and can see planes(barely), we don't really deserve a chastising for playing that way. to be honest, i lose planes right in front of me all the time and actually use their shadows to catch them. is it like reality? no! i fly with a friend in a cesna all the time. at 2 miles you can tell if its a high wing or a low wing plane, but not much else. but then again this isn't reality, so who cares! its fun and exciting for us flying without icons, as much as it is fun and exciting for you flying with icons. we all have our preferences. lets agree to disagree about icons and just have fun! have a nice day :)
-
GREAT Work on this map! WTG
:aok
-
prior to no icons, the AVA was a ghost town. then with some suggestions and rogue ideas, we went to no icons. all of a sudden people are showing up. they're biggest comment is that they love the no icons and the environment as a whole. last night i was in there, at 11pm EST there were 21 people in the AVA. thats almost un-heard of. Saturday night at 1am EST there were 23 people in there. they all know its no icons and they all like it. while i understand that you do not like the no icon environment because its harder, based on what the AVA community as a whole wants, the no icons is here to stay. i apologize that it is not to your satisfaction, but most everyone loves the no icons and for the time being that's become the standard in the AVA arena. now that could change down the line as peoples tastes change but for now it is what it is.
-
Here the most important point I want to make: I don't think no icons being the standard setting for the AvA *all the time* is a good idea. I'd like to see some compromise here.
sooo...tried that...before the no enemy icons thing took off...arena was mostly empty...now people are discovering how fun the game can be with the settings being used...for some it's kept them playing rather than shutting down their accounts.
is it difficult? ya, but that's half the fun...in your gunsights one second...lost in the trees the next...and on your six before you know what happened.
you haven't spent any amount of time in there...let alone with a good crowd...perhaps instead of parroting the same rhetorical poop about real life vision...jump in the arena with a good crowd of regulars and give it a real try...you might find yourself surprised...others have...and tonight should be a real blast.
-
i took this from a film last night.
(http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa135/1LTCAP/forsoulssa.jpg)
the bad guy cons are over 6k away. the good guy con is just under 6k away. they're actually a little easier to see in the game, as they're moving.
here's something to try too. look for something that doesn't match the background. don't specifically look for an airplane....look for something that doesn't belong. once you've spotted it, do NOT take your eyes off of it.
also, bnz mentioned the trackir. yes. that is going to help a lot. it takes some adjustment though. when i'd fight in the ava using the hat switch, keeping a con in sight at high altitude is no serious problem. get down low though, and it's a different story.
i've lost sight of a con that was within 1k of me, because of the way the views switch. on that same token, i've managed to get a con off my six the same way. the trackir smooths most of those view transitions, and hopefully will eliminate that particular problem.
-
Same as pretty much every post about what I 'like' or why I 'do' whatever it is I do. Icons on / off *shrug* don't care. Prefer off for reasons already stated. By reading the setup I've got a fairly good idea what that dot is off in the distance based on how they're flying and where they're coming from. I can tell you for a fact that it's really easy to lose an f4 on the deck in the current set up from any distance so you better bring your A game but I digress... the main reason I love and prefer the AVA is the people that generally populate it. Certain acerbic characters once you've gotten to know them are fun to laugh with even if it's at yourself then there are the overall group that you don't hear the whines from when you smoke them. I can tell a reg from a new guy in a few passes provided I last that long.
Let me give you an example. Last night was simply horrible for me. The other side was flying cooperatively and using good tactics and I took the bait too many times. BUT it was a quick flight to the action and in two hours of air time I didn't see one whine, anything more than light hearted smack talking between friends, plenty of <S>'s given, and a lot of guys having fun.
I read these boards regularly and the things that many players gripe about are almost non existent in the AVA. Now I've practically BEGGED the GV crowd to come in and get a tradition going with little response. Why? The main gripe I see is you guys getting bombed when you're having an epic fight. Okay bring that to the AVA and I can tell you that most of the air crowd will be way too busy killing each other to mess with you. Pick a corner and battle it out. Let us know who 'won'.
Want to do some realistic BUFF action? GREAT!!! let us know where and when and lets give it a whirl.
Now the staff is busting their butts to offer a great playground with a lot of options it's just up to some of you guys to get together and say 'hey lets give it a whirl'.
Who knows? You might just find yourself enjoying it.
Last thing... in AVA.. nobody cares what your score is.
It isn't for everybody I freely admit but a lot of guys fly it once or twice and get hooked hard.
*gets off of pedestal and goes looking for nose and shoes*
-
crazy was sitting just off the south end of A1 shelling it last night.
that crazy dood. :noid
-
crazy was sitting just off the south end of A1 shelling it last night.
that crazy dood. :noid
I tried to get him with some bombs, but my bombing is worse than my machine gunning..which is worse than my SA..
i still enjoy the game
-
I tried to get him with some bombs, but my bombing is worse than my machine gunning..which is worse than my SA..
i still enjoy the game
speaking of sa.......i got delta last night. he was down in the weeds. just offed a wildcat. then he was lining up to fly under a bridge. i tippie-toed up behind him.....and WHAMO....... :devil
he said i spoild his fun.......and i nearly flew into that dam bridge too. :rofl
-
speaking of sa.......i got delta last night. he was down in the weeds. just offed a wildcat. then he was lining up to fly under a bridge. i tippie-toed up behind him.....and WHAMO....... :devil
he said i spoild his fun.......and i nearly flew into that dam bridge too. :rofl
hmm..never thought about flying under one of the bridges...I have noticed the trees are a bit taller than some other maps. I've had to climb out of a few.
-
Those trees are nasty and heavily populated with trunkmonkeys
(http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/12/2008/02/medium_TrunkMonkey_Jalopnik.flv.jpg)
-
here's something to try too. look for something that doesn't match the background. don't specifically look for an airplane....look for something that doesn't belong. once you've spotted it, do NOT take your eyes off of it.
Knew a number of people who drove subway trains. Their conversation once turned to the topic of people jumping in front of the trains, and how to spot them in time in the bad tunnel light. The consensus was to look for movement. I find that works in no-icons environment - as you scan below, you will often notice the movement of another aircraft before you actually figure out that it's an aircraft.
- oldman
-
I love this map. Great job USRanger! had a blast last night. I like flying P-39s anyway and this weeks AvA set up is a great excuse to Cobra up. Th ematch up with Zekes is interesting. The cobras are faster, but can't turn nearly as well and don't accelerate as well either. But they dive extremely well, so BnZ is the tactice of choice. But if the Zeke see you coming, you'll make lots of passes and go home empty handed.
I'll probably spend all week in AvA over MA.
See you fellas out there. :salute
-
I had fun in there again last night.
Only one suggestion..... can we turn the icons on for trees? :D
-
well the debate about "with icons" & "no icons" really doesn't matter....
I am flying in there ( the AvsA), and I extremely hate the idea of "no icons for enemy" and very limited icons for friendly.....
as far as "well before we began using the "no icons" setting, the AvsA was a ghost town..... that boat don't float... the CT / AvsA has had it's ups and downs with it being almost non-populated, to just a handful using it, to a decent number of 15 to 30 flying in it to sometimes 75+ flying there.... and then it would go right back to being a ghost town ( just like it is a ghost town almost 90% per day, everyday even now with the no icons setting )..
people only seem to populate it in the evenings, with every now and then a few popping in before 7pm EST or after 2AM EST........and most other times, with this no icon settings it is still for the most part a ghost town....... people are still doing the exact same things they did before the no icon rule, and that is & was to schedule specific meeting times to do specific things....
as far as the well I can see a Cessna 152 at 3 to 2 miles away on approach landing at the local airport, Aces high or any online flight sim for that matter never will be able to compare with the real thing....... heck it was even stated in this thread that a P47 and a sherman can not be seperated by distinction at a mile out in the arena, that they both have the same pixel pattern ( that is 1.7K in our icon measurement in game ).... so that right there tells us all that one can not compare the "no icons is more realistic" to actual reality......
It would be a nice gesture if the AvsA offered both sides of the arguement a mixture of both "no enemy icons" and sometimes maybe a offering of "Limited distance say 3K or 2.5K enemy icons"........ but they are the ones who do the setup.....
it is up to the rest of us if we want to participate in the AvsA or not......
I just don't accept the "The AvsA was a Ghost Town before "no icons" Theory"..... I do accept the fact that the AvsA has experienced an influx of new players from other flight sims ( along with some of the longtime players from the MA and all the old CT/AvA players ) which is a wonderful thing and the AvsA has been on a good roll which is approaching a year now of positive population......... I hope it continues ( I personally think it will )
but for the most part, the AvsA is still vacant with a rough guestimate of 90% of everyday...... no different than it has ever been......
and I can have fun just the same with icons or without icons, as long as I can find someone else to fly against in the AvsA......
edit: and to get back on the topic:
Awesome job USRanger :aok love this terrain , the clouds, the water, the reefs, the sky color....simply AWESOME !!!
-
shuffler: .treeicon 1
-
i thought ranger put jap friendly trees on that map but...looks as if they don't like anyone... :lol
-
My first trip in was to download the terrain and check it out. Jolly22 asked me to join him and gave me the brief rundown on comms and all. WOW :O The first engagement took me by surprise!! In a way, I really liked it and in another way, it was totally unexpected! Super folks to fly with and against. Again, USRanger hit the mark on the terrain. (the map coloring kinda ...well, isn't that important in the scheme of things)
I will certainly try and get the Cutthroats Mercenary Company to jump in some time.
:rock
:salute
HARR!
-
I'm seriously thinking that adding enemy icons in this arena would destroy what's been happening to this point, and truly hope they're not turned on. i know the lack of them keeps some of my squadies from coming in a lot, and they have their reasons.......but the icons off just "feels" different.
the couple of nights i spent in ta(and i'll be going back there too for more help with the trackir) felt "wrong" with icons.
-
gotta make another trip in tonight k-ken...should be a good number of people in there...and as always it will be unpredictable :x
-
gotta make another trip in tonight k-ken...should be a good number of people in there...and as always it will be unpredictable :x
well, if it's unpredictable, then in reality, it is predictable, because we know it's gonna be unpredictable.....thus we're predicting that it's unpredictable. :noid
-
well, if it's unpredictable, then in reality, it is predictable, because we know it's gonna be unpredictable.....thus we're predicting that it's unpredictable. :noid
that's just your prediction.
-
that's just your prediction.
i predicted someone was gonna say that. :devil
-
well, if it's unpredictable, then in reality, it is predictable, because we know it's gonna be unpredictable.....thus we're predicting that it's unpredictable. :noid
predictably unpredictable? :headscratch: is that your final prediction or are you predicting that there will be something that isn't predictable?
-
predictably unpredictable? :headscratch: is that your final prediction or are you predicting that there will be something that isn't predictable?
in theory, predicting the unpredictable isn't possible. this is predictable in itself. predict unpredictable stuff, and people don't know what to expect, and sometimes react by getting in a huff. this is predictable.
so the unpredictable nature of the game creates a lot of predictable things, but the only thing that is predictable, is that it is unpredictable.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYlJH81dSiw
-
TC summed it up pretty well. Icons don't come to mind at all after you have settled into the camp that you are there to have fun. Most of us get :ahand but end up laughing at the incredibly silly things that we have done to get us there. I am of a similar mind set as TC, I don't think that it is realistic. Yet, I think that it IS more fun.
I think that we will soon become known as "Shadow Chasers" instead of AvAers. It is the most ridiculous feeling that you get when you have flown half a sector on the deck shooting the dark figure in front of you to discover it was your own shadow. Or even worse, the shadow of an enemy on your 6.
Check your ego at the door, be respectful of others there for entertainment and get ready to just try something new and take a look at the work or art that USRanger and HTC (Skuzzy) have done to bring a new terrain to the servers, that is all that I can and will ask of anyone.
-
Tonight was a blast. I counted over 30 pile its at one time. Even scored a couple "real kills" myself.
Now I was thunkin...maybe Midway would be kewl... Two carrier task forces battling it out
-
TC summed it up pretty well. Icons don't come to mind at all after you have settled into the camp that you are there to have fun. Most of us get :ahand but end up laughing at the incredibly silly things that we have done to get us there. I am of a similar mind set as TC, I don't think that it is realistic. Yet, I think that it IS more fun.
I think that we will soon become known as "Shadow Chasers" instead of AvAers. It is the most ridiculous feeling that you get when you have flown half a sector on the deck shooting the dark figure in front of you to discover it was your own shadow. Or even worse, the shadow of an enemy on your 6.
Check your ego at the door, be respectful of others there for entertainment and get ready to just try something new and take a look at the work or art that USRanger and HTC (Skuzzy) have done to bring a new terrain to the servers, that is all that I can and will ask of anyone.
shadow chasers...sounds like a good squad name. :devil :uhoh
-
shadow chasers...sounds like a good squad name. :devil :uhoh
"Me and my shadow.." could be the theme song
-
Had an absolute blast in AVA last night. This map rocks. My personal favorite part is the way Ranger Spaced the Trees out so when you're on the deck you can fly below the tree line in all the "tree channels". Great fun!
Also as a long time LW MA P-39 pilot, It's an amazing change of fortune to be in P-39 and have it be the fasted, best climbing, best armed plane in the Arena. Can't turn with the Zekes for long but you can dive away from them, out run, out climb, and out gun them. The Zeke guns are actually pretty leathal for a while, but the cannon ammo load runs out quick. The P-39 has a 20mm, 2x.50 cals, and 4x.30 cals. It's a hail of bullets. It's also such a beatifully done plane model that it's good to see it zooming around the sky.
Be back tonight. What out Lethrnek!
:salute
-
I think TC is correct in that this setting truly isn't more realistic. The monitor just can't replicate human eyesight.
There are a couple of things that seem more realistic about it.
1. You have to use the size of the plane in relation to the gunsite to judge distance.
2. Losing sight of a bandit. Apparently at a distance some skins don't show, so basically all zekes are silver at about 1000 or more but at combat ranges is where it get's interesting.
It's much easier to see a silver zeke or a light blue wildcat against the green and brown ground than it is a green and brown P-39.
I imagine this was also an issue in RL
Personally, I think it "feels" more realistic or perhaps the word should be "immersive."
If we had the ability for icons to show at a certain distance and then disappear closer up, that might actually be more realistic than what we do now, but it works the opposite way.
I wasn't around in the old CT days but when I first started flying in AvA it certainly was more of a "ghost town" than it is now.
For about a year now since we turned off enemy icons the arena has been more populated.
It's actually a viable alternative to fly on several nights a week now.
This is probably not due entirely to the no enemy icons setting, but that is one more thing that clearly sets the arena apart from others.
-
THERE is a green/grey skin for the wildcat. :aok :devil
-
THERE is a green/grey skin for the wildcat. :aok :devil
If I have all the skins loaded, can I change the default setting so I see the bandits in teh skin I want to see? That's kind of a cheat in my opinion but I'm wondering if it's possible?
-
I know of no such setting to disable other players skins and if I was aware of such a setting I would not be at liberty to discuss it.
-
THERE is a green/grey skin for the wildcat. :aok :devil
Yes but that won't help because there is no guarentee that the bandits will have that skin downloaded. in which case they will see the default skin.
-
*snip*
This is probably not due entirely to the no enemy icons setting, but that is one more thing that clearly sets the arena apart from others.
And we have way cool maps with weather and varying times of day and other way cool stuff.
-
If I have all the skins loaded, can I change the default setting so I see the bandits in teh skin I want to see? That's kind of a cheat in my opinion but I'm wondering if it's possible?
the best you can do is -- options/graphic settings/disable other player skins
you will only see whatever the default skin is in the hangar as dictated by htc...
won't help you any though...tonight i'm not giving up my alt unless it's to chase you into the ground... :neener:
-
crazy was sitting just off the south end of A1 shelling it last night.
that crazy dood. :noid
YA I was having a blast watching ya all trying to egg my M4 that night but the sad thing is after sitting there for almost 45 minutes tracked someone finally got me and at the same time my supplies showed up, but the best part was (sorry Atticus4) was the HE Rounds I was lobbing into his cockpit as he was trying to strafe me , then I moved on and shut down A5 that night but no one came to play so I figured I would try and get a base take out of it. Other then that it Was fun chasing jaeger around in his jeep and all man those little buggers go fast.
I will be back shelling a base near you thursday night
-
YA I was having a blast watching ya all trying to egg my M4 that night but the sad thing is after sitting there for almost 45 minutes tracked someone finally got me and at the same time my supplies showed up, but the best part was (sorry Atticus4) was the HE Rounds I was lobbing into his cockpit as he was trying to strafe me , then I moved on and shut down A5 that night but no one came to play so I figured I would try and get a base take out of it. Other then that it Was fun chasing jaeger around in his jeep and all man those little buggers go fast.
I will be back shelling a base near you thursday night
the only thing that kept me from coming to play, was that i need the time in the air right now,.
-
gotta make another trip in tonight k-ken...should be a good number of people in there...and as always it will be unpredictable :x
Last night was too tired. Had lots going on today taking my 89 year old dad to the dr for a checkup and all. Wed is squad night and so far I haven't seen any of them in over a week! :(
This arena and the settings are kinda like the night time too. Too many folks hated it, but I loved it. This NO Icon setting is similar in a way. Look for me to pop in a bit more often. Make sure you check 6 first! :rofl
-
For the record, I *have* tried no icons. I've flown in it AH abit, and I've flown that way in Il2 abit more. My comments stand. Yesterday, went into AvA long enough to engage two different pilots in zekes while flying a P-39. I could tell by the way they were flying that they lost sight of me practically every time we went into a turn. Iconography is not perfect but it beats that sillyness.
Somewhere in an old thread, I asked something to the effect if its harder in R/L to keep sight of a bandit while dogfighting than it is with icons, Hitech answered to the effect "No, its easier in R/L".
-
i wish those silly zeek pile-its would lose sight of my wildcat......
-
Iconography is not perfect but it beats that sillyness.
Well, thanks for trying it BnZs.
Take care.
-
For the record, I *have* tried no icons. I've flown in it AH abit, and I've flown that way in Il2 abit more. My comments stand. Yesterday, went into AvA long enough to engage two different pilots in zekes while flying a P-39. I could tell by the way they were flying that they lost sight of me practically every time we went into a turn. Iconography is not perfect but it beats that sillyness.
Somewhere in an old thread, I asked something to the effect if its harder in R/L to keep sight of a bandit while dogfighting than it is with icons, Hitech answered to the effect "No, its easier in R/L".
well then good luck and have fun...
-
i had been talking to soulss in our squad forum. i had misunderstood why it was giving him fits. i had taken a screenie from the film of a fight, and marked where the cons....both good and bad were.
for him, it's a color thing it seems. it may be like that for others too.
that's part of why i'm putting together the coral sea one. it'll be all over water, and regardless of color of paint, the cons are generally easier to spot over water.
perhaps this is bnz's problem too........or he just isn't taking to it........either way.......i'm glad to see the massive influx of new names lately, and am glad to be just a tiny part of that.
i am also thankful for you guys that make the skins, maps, set the arena settings, keep the peace so to speak, and work your tulips off so we all can have a very unique and fun playground to play in.,
-
I don't think BnZ has any problems dealing with it. He just doesn't care for the settings.
That's cool, we all like different things.
-
I don't think BnZ has any problems dealing with it. He just doesn't care for the settings.
That's cool, we all like different things.
yep. perfectly well understood. it's why there's black and white.
-
blondes and redheads, buxom or trim, yes variety is what makes the world go round.
Best of luck to ya BNZ's and thanks for giving it a look <S>
-
From my perception of looking at other aircraft while actually flying, the difficulty is not in spotting them or following them after they are spotted, but simply laying vision on them in the vastness that is the sky in the first place. How we are to simulate this on a computer screen without problems is a head scratcher. In normal zoom view, each snap view covers a massive amount of the sky...so anything with a sign on it is easily spotted. We've already talked about what its like *WITHOUT* the neon sign. That is why I said with sufficient resolution and very large monitors, massive levels of zoom+trackIR may be the most realistic way to go, however there is a definite discrimination against those not so equipped. And I'm not sure even with trackIR tracking a moving bandit across views without icons will be as easy as it is in R/L.
-
perhaps then icons from 6k down to 1k, then nothing............
-
perhaps then icons from 6k down to 1k, then nothing............
As said before, that might be a more realistic option, but it's not currently possible.
-
From my perception of looking at other aircraft while actually flying, the difficulty is not in spotting them or following them after they are spotted, but simply laying vision on them in the vastness that is the sky in the first place. How we are to simulate this on a computer screen without problems is a head scratcher. In normal zoom view, each snap view covers a massive amount of the sky...so anything with a sign on it is easily spotted. We've already talked about what its like *WITHOUT* the neon sign. That is why I said with sufficient resolution and very large monitors, massive levels of zoom+trackIR may be the most realistic way to go, however there is a definite discrimination against those not so equipped. And I'm not sure even with trackIR tracking a moving bandit across views without icons will be as easy as it is in R/L.
there are so many places i could go but...it isn't worth it...the topic of this thread is the new terrain that usranger created and is now running on the ava arena...not icons or anyone's perception of reality...
we're glad you tried it for a short time and with your vast experience it's obviously not for you...have a nice day
-
As said before, that might be a more realistic option, but it's not currently possible.
i know. personally, i like the lack of icons all together. the lack of them adds to the "atmosphere" of this arena in my eyes.
i'm simply trying to keep somewhat open minded of others opinions.
-
i did find myself getting distracted looking down at the absolute terrain i've ever seen in this game.
WTFG ranger!!
-
Last night was too tired. Had lots going on today taking my 89 year old dad to the dr for a checkup and all. Wed is squad night and so far I haven't seen any of them in over a week! :(
This arena and the settings are kinda like the night time too. Too many folks hated it, but I loved it. This NO Icon setting is similar in a way. Look for me to pop in a bit more often. Make sure you check 6 first! :rofl
Harrr....... Ken,
If pops is like mine, his has a number of things that he wants to do (that is code for .... wants you to do while he supervises every detail to tell you when your not doing it right). :old: The funny thing is that he is always right, and listening to him, following his advice, I actually learn something and he gets stuff fixed. But it still wears ya out.
I hate that I am missing seeing more of my old friends and a new terrain, but I just ordered some upgrade components for my old POAS (piece of ancient scat).
So be on the look out K Ken, and BnZs I would consider it a thrill to fly or GV with you guys in any arena, soon. :salute I believe that is what most of us "Shadow Chasers" are hoping to do anyway is to encourage veterans and newcomers alike to help make an environment that is both challenging and fun. That is why USRanger and others are hard at work to bring in new exciting terrains, new historically inspired theaters of combat, and challenges to get some squad/ team "the way it was" action.
perhaps then icons from 6k down to 1k, then nothing............
I could start a wishlist, discussing the reverse distance icon settings as Jimson, BnZs and Cap1 have done here. But would that be the answer? For some the settings will never be what they would like to see. Although I agree it might be a better estimation of RL identification, some might feel that any flag at all is undesirable, while other would argue about what distance the flag should be raised.
-
there are so many places i could go but...it isn't worth it...the topic of this thread is the new terrain that usranger created and is now running on the ava arena...not icons or anyone's perception of reality...
we're glad you tried it for a short time and with your vast experience it's obviously not for you...have a nice day
Actually, I've tried it some more, and by using very zoomed in views combined with panning with the mouse, spotting is reasonable. I'm at least as good at it as many flying in there regularly, if six zeke kills in one hop are any indication.(None of them saw me coming, except the ones I HO'd. And it does make HOing more realistic, since the enema goes from being a dot to filling the screen very quickly) Still not as easy as real life, especially if you consider I really need that left hand on my throttle as sometimes!
Before you mock my "vast experience", consider that the experience myself and many others are talking about is looking at actual airplanes in the actual air at the sort of distances under discussion.
Oh, and yes, the terrain IS simply marvelous!
-
BNZ's
No mocking here. If it's not your thing rock on bro.. No arena can be all things to all people. Wish it was yours as we could use more people like you in there but if it's not it's not.
Flip it around. I find the MA's distracting since I've gotten into the no icon settings. Doesn't make me wrong either.
Great thing about this game. If you have a little bit of imagination you can find a plethora of fun things to do while aggravating humorless people. <S>
And yes the terrains are awesome :D
-
Actually, I've tried it some more, and by using very zoomed in views combined with panning with the mouse, spotting is reasonable. I'm at least as good at it as many flying in there regularly, if six zeke kills in one hop are any indication.(None of them saw me coming, except the ones I HO'd. And it does make HOing more realistic, since the enema goes from being a dot to filling the screen very quickly) Still not as easy as real life, especially if you consider I really need that left hand on my throttle as sometimes!
Before you mock my "vast experience", consider that the experience myself and many others are talking about is looking at actual airplanes in the actual air at the sort of distances under discussion.
Oh, and yes, the terrain IS simply marvelous!
i fly too.
i've never mocked your experience.
most of my kills in the ava are in massive(for here) furballs. it's a blast. lately, since i ain't got the trackir totally figured out, i've gone back to my timid midwar arena ways.....and the kills i've gotten they've not seen me coming. i got shane twice. that right there is proof, as i'm pretty dam sure i could never take him in a 1-1 fight. think i got delta that way too. he kilt a countryman, and then saw a bridge.......with a sign on it saying "fly under me". i got him as he was going under. :devil i'm a sneaky bastge.
-
BNZ's
No mocking here. If it's not your thing rock on bro.. No arena can be all things to all people. Wish it was yours as we could use more people like you in there but if it's not it's not.
Flip it around. I find the MA's distracting since I've gotten into the no icon settings. Doesn't make me wrong either.
Great thing about this game. If you have a little bit of imagination you can find a plethora of fun things to do while aggravating humorless people. <S>
And yes the terrains are awesome :D
my imagination would not fit here......unless i could put certain betty paige pictures on my airplane........
-
got one in mind? *hand twitches towards photoshop button :D
-
Before you mock my "vast experience", consider that the experience myself and many others are talking about is looking at actual airplanes in the actual air at the sort of distances under discussion.
if you want to know what i'm mocking...it's the fact that you're equating what you have seen out the window of an airplane leisure flying at maybe 200 mph with combat flying as a pilot at 300+ mph...everyone in this discussion has already conceded that the game isn't rendering distant objects in the same level of detail that we would see in real life...there might be some visibility improvement if we all had 42+ inch monitors but as it sits...we don't...
so htc's answer to the lack of detail rendering on distant objects is to paste a big red neon sign around the distant object that first appears at 18,000 feet in the distance and provides more information than the average human can determine at that distance...and that is somehow better than turning off the neon sign and learning some little tricks to compensate for the lack of visual acuity? ok...if you say so. if that's your bag, cool...have at it and enjoy yourself.
i'll stick with the neon sign turned off and using the few little tricks i've found to keep my eyes on the bad guys...the few people who sneak up on me, they deserve to get credit for the kill.
-
*snip
had 42+ inch monitors but as it sits...we don't...
Yall don't?
HOW THE :furious ARE YALL CONSTANTLY KILLING ME? *throws tantrum Dicho style by leaning back, grinning, and spitting in a beer can..* Oooookay.. all better now. :D
-
The best answers would be 1. Virtual reality. :D 2. Large monitors combined with trackIR and zoom...my experiments with mouse pan show this could work quite well. 3. An icon that is easy to read but hard to spot. Say one that shifted chameolon-like to fit the background.
-
:bolt:
-
got one in mind? *hand twitches towards photoshop button :D
as long as i know you're keeping both hands on the computer.....and they're not the "normal" betty paige pictures that have been shown on these boards..... :noid :devil
-
as long as i know you're keeping both hands on the computer.....and they're not the "normal" betty paige pictures that have been shown on these boards..... :noid :devil
Klaw? :devil
-
if you want to know what i'm mocking...it's the fact that you're equating what you have seen out the window of an airplane leisure flying at maybe 200 mph with combat flying as a pilot at 300+ mph...everyone in this discussion has already conceded that the game isn't rendering distant objects in the same level of detail that we would see in real life...there might be some visibility improvement if we all had 42+ inch monitors but as it sits...we don't...
so htc's answer to the lack of detail rendering on distant objects is to paste a big red neon sign around the distant object that first appears at 18,000 feet in the distance and provides more information than the average human can determine at that distance...and that is somehow better than turning off the neon sign and learning some little tricks to compensate for the lack of visual acuity? ok...if you say so. if that's your bag, cool...have at it and enjoy yourself.
i'll stick with the neon sign turned off and using the few little tricks i've found to keep my eyes on the bad guys...the few people who sneak up on me, they deserve to get credit for the kill.
here's one of those tricks.......
these shots are both the same. one is zoomed in a little. in the film viewer, it the icon said it was D200. look to the right, and it showed this con at D145.
so now i know, that if the wingspan looks to be approx. the size of the outer ring.......buzz saw range. i think the inner ring i D400 or so.....
(http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa135/1LTCAP/avazeekat145yards.jpg)
(http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa135/1LTCAP/avazeekat145yards-1.jpg)
bnz....have you been to the AvA's website yet? if not, look in the sig line below my post. it's right by the pic of the p-38...check it out. dawger did a very informative write up in the help section. :aok
-
Klaw? :devil
can i take the 5th? :noid :devil
it's a crying shame he was made to destroy so much of his work........
-
can i take the 5th? :noid :devil
it's a crying shame he was made to destroy so much of his work........
www.eoliva.com (http://www.eoliva.com)
If I could afford a print of her "Crime and Punishment" featuring Bettie...well, I might never leave the room in which it was displayed. :noid
-
The best answers would be 1. Virtual reality. :D 2. Large monitors combined with trackIR and zoom...my experiments with mouse pan show this could work quite well. 3. An icon that is easy to read but hard to spot. Say one that shifted chameolon-like to fit the background.
i think #3 would be an easy (easier than coding full 3d virtual reality) thing for htc to do...would be very interesting to see how that would affect game play in the main arenas.
full 3d high def vr would be nice...
for option 2... :lol ...most of us working stiffs can't handle the cost but...i've noticed the snap views with my hat switch have gotten me shot down more than my stupid flying so i'm looking into a face tracking program that someone suggested in the hardware/software forum...after what cap1 and some other people have gone through with track ir...no thanks, i dont have the money or the patience.
-
www.eoliva.com (http://www.eoliva.com)
If I could afford a print of her "Crime and Punishment" featuring Bettie...well, I might never leave the room in which it was displayed. :noid
luink won't load for me......... :cry :cry :cry
-
luink won't load for me......... :cry :cry :cry
That's because I typed the bloody URL wrong.
http://www.eolivia.com/Scripts/default.asp (http://www.eolivia.com/Scripts/default.asp)
-
i'm gonna have to make a note to get a drool guard for my keyboard..........
since she came up.....has any of you guys seen the notorious bettie page? the movie?
dam i enjoyed that........i forget who played her, but she looked eerily like her............
-
well, as I mentioned earlier...... I like the AvsA for the historical or close to historical plane match ups...... and hopefully able to fly with friends I have flown with for the past 16+ years......
I can live with the no icons, since that is what it is going to be until the next change, unless one never comes....... who knows we'll see I guess...
but I liked the AvsA the way it was before the no icons, but that was before people started leaving WB3 or FA and came joining AH and wanting change because they thought it was a Ghost Town......( and before my RL stepped in the way to where I was unable to fly as much as I would of liked....... )
about the only downfall I have experienced with "no icons" is it is extremely hard to deal with 3 or more vs 1...... it is just a little bit harder to deal with 2 vs 1.... but most times 2 vs 1 is perfectly ok..... oh and be sure that you are not mistaking a shadow for your opponent :aok :D
I still experience the same lull of no one in there and having to wait for people to show up and sometimes it doesn't happen sometimes it does.... when one is flying in the AvsA before 6 or 7 pm EST or after 1 or 2 AM EST......they might not see anyone else while they are logged on, or might have 1 or 2 drop in and stay a few minutes , a few flights.....but hardly ever get to 4 or 5 people outside of the 5 PM to 2 AM EST times.....
If it ever gets to where I don't like flying some where, I just go somewhere else...... from EWA , MWA, LWA, AvA, DA, SEA etc..... if I can not find something to hold my interest or be fun to me at that time, then I log off...... it is as simple as that for everyone......
one has to use what is available to them....... but I don't think one should have to "tweak their settings to view the enemy" or "use tricks" to be able to play in any arena...
why should one have to lower their resolution from ssy 1600 x 1200 to say 1024 x 768 , simply because it is the only way to see what might be a 1 pixel dot to what is a 6 pixel enemy <--- exaggerated example.... I mean isn't the game meant to be played with the ability of using higher resolution without having to dumb down your settings to be able to play the game...... that is what upsets me really... when I am suggested to lower my settings to stuff we used 10 years ago so it will make it easier for me to play...... I mean really now????
but like I said, if it ever gets to where I don't like flying some where, I just go somewhere else...... from EWA , MWA, LWA, AvA, DA, SEA etc..... if I can not find fun for me at the time, then I log off...... so simple ......
TC
-
i'm gonna have to make a note to get a drool guard for my keyboard..........
since she came up.....has any of you guys seen the notorious bettie page? the movie?
dam i enjoyed that........i forget who played her, but she looked eerily like her............
Gretchen Mol
-
Gretchen Mol
:aok
-
It's paradise for hit and run. Slower guys get bounced, faster guys can keep their sixes clear mostly through speed. Don't know if that was the intent, considering how so many people on this board feel about hit and run tactics. :neener:
well, as I mentioned earlier...... I like the AvsA for the historical or close to historical plane match ups...... and hopefully able to fly with friends I have flown with for the past 16+ years......
I can live with the no icons, since that is what it is going to be until the next change, unless one never comes....... who knows we'll see I guess...
but I liked the AvsA the way it was before the no icons, but that was before people started leaving WB3 or FA and came joining AH and wanting change because they thought it was a Ghost Town......( and before my RL stepped in the way to where I was unable to fly as much as I would of liked....... )
about the only downfall I have experienced with "no icons" is it is extremely hard to deal with 3 or more vs 1...... it is just a little bit harder to deal with 2 vs 1.... but most times 2 vs 1 is perfectly ok..... oh and be sure that you are not mistaking a shadow for your opponent :aok :D
I still experience the same lull of no one in there and having to wait for people to show up and sometimes it doesn't happen sometimes it does.... when one is flying in the AvsA before 6 or 7 pm EST or after 1 or 2 AM EST......they might not see anyone else while they are logged on, or might have 1 or 2 drop in and stay a few minutes , a few flights.....but hardly ever get to 4 or 5 people outside of the 5 PM to 2 AM EST times.....
If it ever gets to where I don't like flying some where, I just go somewhere else...... from EWA , MWA, LWA, AvA, DA, SEA etc..... if I can not find something to hold my interest or be fun to me at that time, then I log off...... it is as simple as that for everyone......
one has to use what is available to them....... but I don't think one should have to "tweak their settings to view the enemy" or "use tricks" to be able to play in any arena...
why should one have to lower their resolution from ssy 1600 x 1200 to say 1024 x 768 , simply because it is the only way to see what might be a 1 pixel dot to what is a 6 pixel enemy <--- exaggerated example.... I mean isn't the game meant to be played with the ability of using higher resolution without having to dumb down your settings to be able to play the game...... that is what upsets me really... when I am suggested to lower my settings to stuff we used 10 years ago so it will make it easier for me to play...... I mean really now????
but like I said, if it ever gets to where I don't like flying some where, I just go somewhere else...... from EWA , MWA, LWA, AvA, DA, SEA etc..... if I can not find fun for me at the time, then I log off...... so simple ......
TC
-
It's paradise for hit and run. Slower guys get bounced, faster guys can keep their sixes clear mostly through speed. Don't know if that was the intent, considering how so many people on this board feel about hit and run tactics. :neener:
I guess I should of not posted my thoughts.....
I had engaged in a fight the other night in the current arena setup... I was flying an A6m2..... I had ended that fight when 2 others in F4f's came and pounced on me, not exactly at the same identical time but was very close as to I was soon defending against both. After a kind of stretched out battle, I managed to get through the fight and go land my pelts...... and it was not like I was fighting some noob to average opponents...... I will not post the names, because I am not thumping my chest, they know who they were.... we just had an awesome fight regardless of the outcome.....
I just don't like the no icons, does not mean anything more or less..... and there is fun to be had in the AvsA .......
TC
-
I pretty much get waxed in any arena as I'm just not skilled, although I will have an occasional good day.
Iv'e chosen to make the AvA my home because of the historical nature. As long as it stays that way without the Spit vs Spit, Mustang vs Lightning dynamic, I'll be there.
-
I guess I should of not posted my thoughts.....
I had engaged in a fight the other night in the current arena setup... I was flying an A6m2..... I had ended that fight when 2 others in F4f's came and pounced on me, not exactly at the same identical time but was very close as to I was soon defending against both. After a kind of stretched out battle, I managed to get through the fight and go land my pelts...... and it was not like I was fighting some noob to average opponents...... I will not post the names, because I am not thumping my chest, they know who they were.... we just had an awesome fight regardless of the outcome.....
I just don't like the no icons, does not mean anything more or less..... and there is fun to be had in the AvsA .......
TC
yes you SHOULD have posted your thoughts. :aok
that was called teamwork.
i kept getting it the other way 'round. i'd in on a single a6m, and if i survived past the first couple turns, next i knew i had a couple more zeeks breathing my exhaust fumes.
me personally though, i will ALWAYS ask before i drop into a 1-1 fight, and appreciate when others ask before they drop into mine. i've died many cartoon deaths because when asked, i asked the other guy to stay out.........
-
CAP1, you do know "my thoughts" was referring to my Reply # 132.......
jimson, we all have our on days and off days...... I have been in there and taken off 5 to 7 times in a row just to see myself spiraling down with parts missing and never having obtained an angle to get a shot off......then there are those days that everything just clicks and even if you mess up in a fight you still come out the victor.....
the AvsA is my favorite, because like you, I like the plane match ups, and the different battles in time through out the WWII history....
also, and most importantly is the atmosphere of the AvsA, most of the AH Members that fly in there are more respectful of the Arena and practice good game etiquette.. it is because there is not 200+ to 400 people flying... smaller populated arenas has always been key to a successful arena....
now just to get the Arena populated during each day beyond those times I mentioned earlier, is the next stepping stone in my opinion....
TC
-
The fixed [unchanging] plane match ups are what make the tactics acceptible. In AVA I feel that's kind of what your signing up for. airacobras are going to Boom and Zoom and Jekes are going to turn fight. Complaining about that would be out of place in this arena. Ganging and stuff is very much required in this particular set up because killing an equal E-state Zeke 1v1 with any plane in the allied line up is almost impossible. I've seen it take 3 and 4 wild cats to kill a one Zeke, and P-39 take even more. You almost have to pick a zeke or you have no shot, and that really playes into the strategy of what historically folks had to deal with.
Also a word on Ho-ing. We all hate it, and there were some surprised complaints an comments on Ho's last night. For my two cents, Zekes turn so fast and tight, that what's a 6 shot at one moment ins a 12 shot a few seconds later. Every Zeke I line up turns right at me. Now if we're cruising towards each other, in a classic merge situation, I'm guns cold. But If I'm dopping on your rear 3/4 and at 1K or 1.5K you pull a u turn and come straight at me, I'm gong to shoot. If I didn't I'd only get shots on sleeping pilots. A zeke can literally pull of a 180 degree turn from the time I'm 1.5k behind until I get in gun range.
So for you Zeke pilots, don't be too quick to complain about a ho, if you just pulled a 180 into a bandt. :D. If I pass on that shot, you've re-reversed into my tail at 200 yrds and I'm dead.
Also, was a glitch that if the allies captured a Japanese base [A4} Allies taking off from there had to fly Japanese planes? That screwed everything up. Hopefully fixed by tonight? :salute
-
I never complain about a HO. Lots of reasons really. On my end it might look like one where on your end it might look like a front quarter shot. Stuff happens even with people who try NOT to do it ever. I figure if I can make a mistake every now and then everybody else is entitled to a pass. Etc etc etc...
Although Vinkman you left out the fact that you guys have put something in my Zeke that makes it blow up if you give it a dirty look ;)
-
Also, was a glitch that if the allies captured a Japanese base [A4} Allies taking off from there had to fly Japanese planes? That screwed everything up. Hopefully fixed by tonight? :salute
That should be fixed as of early last evening.
The way it's supposed to work is that the capturing side should only have the planes that are enabled for them.
It's easy to miss something in the set up process sometimes.
-
That should be fixed as of early last evening.
The way it's supposed to work is that the capturing side should only have the planes that are enabled for them.
It's easy to miss something in the set up process sometimes.
Yeh no worries. Just wanted to bring it to attention if it was yet unknown. also, true to the character of many in teh AVA, most allied pilots realizing it was glitch, didn't take advantage of flying in Zekes.
-
I never complain about a HO. Lots of reasons really. On my end it might look like one where on your end it might look like a front quarter shot. Stuff happens even with people who try NOT to do it ever. I figure if I can make a mistake every now and then everybody else is entitled to a pass. Etc etc etc...
Although Vinkman you left out the fact that you guys have put something in my Zeke that makes it blow up if you give it a dirty look ;)
hehehe. FYI, I didn't get flagged for ho-ing, but I thought I'd bring it up, because I saw the banter on 200. It is amazing how fast 50cals will light a Zeke on fire. :O. But those Zeke cannons are killers....while they have ammo. :aok
-
for the whole .5 seconds?
The 2 is, shall we say, not my favorite aircraft in the game. But you allied guys need a roughly equal number of targets and I do what I can :D
-
The fixed [unchanging] plane match ups are what make the tactics acceptible. In AVA I feel that's kind of what your signing up for. airacobras are going to Boom and Zoom and Jekes are going to turn fight. Complaining about that would be out of place in this arena. Ganging and stuff is very much required in this particular set up because killing an equal E-state Zeke 1v1 with any plane in the allied line up is almost impossible. I've seen it take 3 and 4 wild cats to kill a one Zeke, and P-39 take even more. You almost have to pick a zeke or you have no shot, and that really playes into the strategy of what historically folks had to deal with.
I am in total disagreement with the underlined statement....... it is not a requirement to gang in this particular setup or any setup...
I have seen P-39 cobras take on zekes 1 vs 1 , 1 vs 2 zekes and have seen the P39 come out victorious..... I have seen F4F's do the same thing.... and noone had to go about ganging up on anyone.....
just saying :cheers:
-
I have seen P-39 cobras take on zekes 1 vs 1 , 1 vs 2 zekes and have seen the P39 come out victorious..... I have seen F4F's do the same thing.... and noone had to go about ganging up on anyone.....
Yes, but those Allied guys you're talking about had the magic dust.
One of the interesting things about the 1942 PAC setup is how it causes people to duplicate history. With equal pilots, I'm with Vinkman (and history), the Wildcat or P39 is toast in a 1v1. So the Allied pilots start flying in pairs, and it works great - just as it did in real life.
Not that I think it should devolve to more than 2 v 1, that IS ganging, but the way the game repeats history is pretty kewl.
- oldman
-
Yes, but those Allied guys you're talking about had the magic dust.
One of the interesting things about the 1942 PAC setup is how it causes people to duplicate history. With equal pilots, I'm with Vinkman (and history), the Wildcat or P39 is toast in a 1v1. So the Allied pilots start flying in pairs, and it works great - just as it did in real life.
Not that I think it should devolve to more than 2 v 1, that IS ganging, but the way the game repeats history is pretty kewl.
- oldman
I can go along with that, OM....... it was that "G" word that really stood out to me...... stood out just like Ranger's magnificant Terrain
TC
-
i'll have you guys know that a single f4f can survive against 4 or 5 zekes...at least long enough for a couple of those zekes to auger... :rofl ...and even get a few nice deflection shots to discourage the others....if i wasn't laughing so hard i would have landed instead of getting shot down... :lol
-
I am in total disagreement with the underlined statement....... it is not a requirement to gang in this particular setup or any setup...
I have seen P-39 cobras take on zekes 1 vs 1 , 1 vs 2 zekes and have seen the P39 come out victorious..... I have seen F4F's do the same thing.... and noone had to go about ganging up on anyone.....
just saying :cheers:
i've seen soulss do wonders in that wreck that is the beautiful p-39.
-
Yes, but those Allied guys you're talking about had the magic dust.
One of the interesting things about the 1942 PAC setup is how it causes people to duplicate history. With equal pilots, I'm with Vinkman (and history), the Wildcat or P39 is toast in a 1v1. So the Allied pilots start flying in pairs, and it works great - just as it did in real life.
Not that I think it should devolve to more than 2 v 1, that IS ganging, but the way the game repeats history is pretty kewl.
- oldman
bolded......THAT is why i went for the setup i went for in the solomon islands sir. it is also why i am choosing the setup in the one i mentioned recently in the dev group. :aok
-
as long as the cat has some room to get the nose down, and use some vertical, it can hold its own against a zeek a little better then most think.
that being said, i still die in em.
-
Last night I did a couple quick sorties as a zeke....and had a good time. I was feeding other folks' stats! :rofl
Wail did a great job sneaking up on me...only saw the tracers!! heheheheh I lasted a short time but he was awesome in that blue plane! MiG and I talked about it squad night (Wed) and he and I are planing on maybe jumping over tonight...no promises :aok
-
I am in total disagreement with the underlined statement....... it is not a requirement to gang in this particular setup or any setup...
I have seen P-39 cobras take on zekes 1 vs 1 , 1 vs 2 zekes and have seen the P39 come out victorious..... I have seen F4F's do the same thing.... and noone had to go about ganging up on anyone.....
just saying :cheers:
Really? Who was the Zeke pilot? :D
-
Me on several occasions but I don't consider it ganging. They're using their platforms to their best advantage and I have yet to figure out an effective counter. A better pilet can and probably does regularly counter this and well but that's not me. I fall back on my standard line when I see somebody griping about the way someone else 'flys'.... 'fly better yourself' :D
-
Really? Who was the Zeke pilot? :D
me... :joystick: ... :lol
as many times as you sent me down in flames with your cobra, that should have been obvious... :rofl
-
me... :joystick: ... :lol
as many times as you sent me down in flames with your cobra, that should have been obvious... :rofl
hehehe <S> It's only because in my olive green Cobra, I'm a sneaky bastage. :D
-
ya know? i kept trying to fly the cobra against them zeeks. 0 success. even when i tried to keep above em, they seemed to get me.
-
where the heck were you when I was around then? :D
-
ya know? i kept trying to fly the cobra against them zeeks. 0 success. even when i tried to keep above em, they seemed to get me.
were you using the 20mm package?
-
were you using the 20mm package?
hhmm...i don't know....i wnet in the hangar, selected it, lowered the fuel, and launched....
-
hhmm...i don't know....i wnet in the hangar, selected it, lowered the fuel, and launched....
was there a basket of spuds nearby?
-
was there a basket of spuds nearby?
i dunno........i was too busy going down in flames or separate pieces.
-
were you using the 20mm package?
should have been the only large caliber option available...the 37mm was supposed to be disabled in the hangar...not historically accurate for the period
-
as long as the cat has some room to get the nose down, and use some vertical, it can hold its own against a zeek a little better then most think.
that being said, i still die in em.
if you have room to get the Wildcat above 375 mph, you will outturn the zeke every time. the zeke has terrible issues with roll rate at that speed, and it creeks in a hi-G turn. the Wildcat does not have those issues, and as long as you can manuver into an advantageous position before you bleed off all your E, then you should be able to kill the zeke.
-
if you have room to get the Wildcat above 375 mph, you will outturn the zeke every time. the zeke has terrible issues with roll rate at that speed, and it creeks in a hi-G turn. the Wildcat does not have those issues, and as long as you can manuver into an advantageous position before you bleed off all your E, then you should be able to kill the zeke.
THAT'S what i was doing wrong!!!!!
i was trying to keep the turn speed around 250-275mph $^%$##$%$% :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead
-
should have been the only large caliber option available...the 37mm was supposed to be disabled in the hangar...not historically accurate for the period
The Army had both P39s and P400s at Guadalcanal in the fall of 1942. Both armament packages are accurate.
- oldman