Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: opposum on March 02, 2011, 01:31:04 PM
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WOOT! I can't wait till it comes out!!! :D
(http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn279/opposum_01/Untitled-32.jpg)
opposum
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I haven't see that much hype since the last religion announced their savior was coming down to lead them to the promised land.
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:rofl
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I haven't see that much hype since the last religion announced their savior was coming down to lead them to the promised land.
Didnt they all wear sneakers and think there was a spaceship behind Haleys comet???
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oh god, that made me laugh through my nose... :rofl
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I haven't see that much hype since the last religion announced their savior was coming down to lead them to the promised land.
Have you actually tried Mac for longer than 5 minutes? If you did you might understand why people love it. When I first saw Windows 7 I was like oh geez this is like multitudes times better than XP in many ways and still so much worse in many places. But I liked it.
After I have used Mac for 4 years now I find 7 cumbersome, uninnovative and lacking in functionality. I choose mac over Win7 for every task other than playing games.
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Have you actually tried Mac for longer than 5 minutes?
Unfortunately
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Unfortunately
If you say so then you haven't used it, really. :) Sorry but it's just not believable :)
I was like you, I almost quit my job the day I had to migrate to Mac. I was sooo pro windows and sooo why do I need to re-learn this and that. And now they'd have to pry mac away from my dead fingers.
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If you say so then you haven't used it, really. :) Sorry but it's just not believable :)
No, really.
For a while now my school district's used Macs for the English and Arts departments (herp derp).
Which means, unfortunately, I've had no choice other than to use these miserable machines for the past ~3 years I've had to use various Mac machines, ranging from low end Mac books to some pretty high end machines.
Actually, I've had to use Macs since I started public school, and I've always hated them, even before I knew why they were 'different'.
The only thing that I like about Macs is the touchpad on Macbooks, but I've even used some Windows based laptops with a similar system now.
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Mac: System Message: The device you have plugged in does not pay royalties to Apple. Failure to use Apple products may result in loss of data, guaranteed incompatibility issues and general arsehattery. Do you wish to continue?
Win: System Message: New Hardware Detected. Installing.....
Ubuntu: New Device is now installed. Do you wish to download free GNU software that is used in conjunction with this device?
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If you say so then you haven't used it, really. :) Sorry but it's just not believable :)
I was like you, I almost quit my job the day I had to migrate to Mac. I was sooo pro windows and sooo why do I need to re-learn this and that. And now they'd have to pry mac away from my dead fingers.
I used to write drivers for Apple's computers. Hated every minute of it. Still do. My Wife has to use a Mac, for some of her work. She hates it as well.
It is not that either of us prefers Windows over the Mac, we just dislike the Mac more. I prefer UNIX and the CLI to all of them.
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Apple is great for innovation (particularly for iPods and such), but using them for a home computer is silly. Maybe they are great and easy to use, but do they work with most of the software out there?
It is very similar to the beta vs vhs debate in the 80s, unfortunately, the Mac is the beta in the comparison.
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apple products in general sux...and yes i have not only used them i have had to support them...since the apple II gs...best 2 things apple did was intel hardware platform and linux os core...before that they were proprietary garbage, like dec alpha systems...
my favorite thing about mac's are the users...1 out of 10 know what they are doing...the rest are pinheads that would be lost even on a windows 3.11 system...but they gotta to have that mac because "it's superior to windows" even though they can't even figure out how uninstall a program...as long as they can call what they consider a low level iq zombie to their office to figure it out, that mac is the bestestest thing around...
if apple hadn't done what they did to get into the public education system and stay there...it would be nothing more than an overpriced niche market computer few people would even know about.
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Apple is great for innovation (particularly for iPods and such), but using them for a home computer is silly. Maybe they are great and easy to use, but do they work with most of the software out there?
It is very similar to the beta vs vhs debate in the 80s, unfortunately, the Mac is the beta in the comparison.
apple are greating at saying they innovate. They don't really. What they are great at is marketing. I could take all of the cool features from OS X and show you those in OS's used in the 90's for example.
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Well I like Macs, they're nice to use, reliable, and I don't need to take care of them. I don't like Windows. Therefore my OS is better than your OS. Hah.
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Apple is great for innovation (particularly for iPods and such), but using them for a home computer is silly. Maybe they are great and easy to use, but do they work with most of the software out there?
Most software is really craptastic. I've found many Apple programs very intuitive, easy to use and stable. Take omnigraffle, keynote etc. or the iLife package that comes by default with the hardware.. super easy to use and produce results that in f.e. omnigraffles case cannot be matched by any software I know of on PC side, even at triple the price.
We had our client do additions to some presentations we had using MS tools - they pointed out like a sore thumb lol.
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apple are greating at saying they innovate. They don't really. What they are great at is marketing. I could take all of the cool features from OS X and show you those in OS's used in the 90's for example.
I seriously doubt that. Where was the automatic sync and integration with mobile devices in 90's? Where's the near automatic setup of backups built in the OS? Where's the online personal calender, webhost, image sharing and mobile device sync? Where's the 'track my hardware after it gets stolen' on 90's? Where's the built in integration with Google maps and services? Tens of thousands of free and paid apps? With apple things are as close to plug and play as you can get where on PC you're in for manual labour to achieve the simpliest of things just to find out its bugging out on you. People do not give credit to Apple how it set trends and created knowns out of things that were deemed impossible or hype by the mainstream PC people. People laughed about tabs before iPad. Now everyone plays catch-up.
The Apple motto 'it just works' is really where it boils down to. For people who don't want to spend time using the operating system as opposed to doing something productive, there's no better option at the moment than Mac.
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Oh lord, Keynote. I can't think of a less enjoyable program that I've used.
Even on our school's Macs we have MS Office installed, I can only think that a masochist would use Apple's software.
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Oh lord, Keynote. I can't think of a less enjoyable program that I've used.
Even on our school's Macs we have MS Office installed, I can only think that a masochist would use Apple's software.
Lol! I can't imagine a worse place to gain your 'experience' from than a shared school machine. So no, that does not count as usage. I know from experience that random use will only frustrate you with the difference on how things work. You're used to the clunky PC thinking and find OSX difficult when in reality it's easyer but _different_. And Keynote happens to be superior in every imaginable way to MS Office. You can produce visual result that's unparallel and achieve it with almost no experience.
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One simple example from real life:
I'm in a beach bar in Greece. I have my macbook at the bar and I'm listening to internet radio. The bar owner asks if I could put the music to play in the bar stereo. Happens that the stereo has bluetooth connectivity.
No probs, a minute later we have music playing even though I had never set up bluetooth audio before.
Then the owner brings his Vista laptop and asks me to do the same to his Vista. I'm thinking no prob. 4 hours labor later in the +35c heat I give up. Unbeknownst to me MS has intentionally crippled the bluetooth stack and deprived bluetooth audio connectivity. After I find that out, surely there are alternatives, right? Replacing it with a free third party stack proved to be too much work for that day, paid options were no option and free ones required extensive conffing.
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I seriously doubt that. Where was the automatic sync and integration with mobile devices in 90's?
palm hotsync (?)
Where's the near automatic setup of backups built in the OS?
windblows 95 was first...didn't work real well but it was there.
Where's the online personal calender, webhost, image sharing and mobile device sync?
wasn't necessary...there wasn't any "online" except for the bbs systems...apple wasn't first for any of those, they just took longer to find a better way.
Where's the 'track my hardware after it gets stolen' on 90's?
again, wasn't necessary...there was no internet to help with low jacking technologies
Where's the built in integration with Google maps and services?
didn't exist for anyone including apple in the 90s
The Apple motto 'it just works' is really where it boils down to. For people who don't want to spend time using the operating system as opposed to doing something productive, there's no better option at the moment than Mac.
well, when you have an apple engineer tell you "sounds like it's broken" and "if replacing the parts didn't fix it, you need to get a new one"...is an indication that "it just works", i'll eat my dirty socks...
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palm hotsync (?)
Lol and it just worked on it's own when you plugged the device in? You didn't first have to install software, define ports, make sure you had software installed BEFORE plugging it in first etc? I don't think sooo!
windblows 95 was first...didn't work real well but it was there.
LOL! Built in backup that works with a click after you connect a backup media to your LAN with no software installation or configuration? I don't think soo! :)
wasn't necessary...there wasn't any "online" except for the bbs systems...apple wasn't first for any of those, they just took longer to find a better way.
You mean still isn't necessary since no PC comes with such an option, you have to laborously subscribe to a dozen different service providers to achieve half of it and even then you don't get the visual result Apple does in shared photolibraries, movies etc.
again, wasn't necessary...there was no internet to help with low jacking technologies
didn't exist for anyone including apple in the 90s
You mean still doesn't exist in any out-of-the box PC/winmo installation.
well, when you have an apple engineer tell you "sounds like it's broken" and "if replacing the parts didn't fix it, you need to get a new one"...is an indication that "it just works", i'll eat my dirty socks...
I treat my PC hardware the same. If it fails, it's trash and fresh box comes to replace it. But I thought we were talking about sofware now.
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Ripley... Apple works only with apple approved/backed stuff... which means companies that pay tithe to Apple. Win & Linux OS's like Ubuntu work with freaking nearly everything.
Sure, Apple software seems more stable..but then again, its working only with other apple software and primarily with apple hardware. The fact that Win OS is ALMOST if not more stable than any apple OS while accepting almost every known piece of hardware out there speaks volumes.
I'm not a fan of MS and neither am I a fan of Apple. But I have to give kudos where they are due. I have a hell of a time setting up the insanely expensive gadgets my father has to buy for his imac... which I always remind him would be costing 1/3rd less money to do the exact same thing if he just had purchased a PC. Not to mention I can upgrade my PC anytime I want..his mac is stuck on what it is and any upgrade he needs = a whole new machine. Ca-ching! apple.
There's also the concept of flexibility. The ability to function with a myriad of devices which you can jury rig or innovate. Apple hardware and software simply do not have this. Why? Because Apple doesnt want to allow it.. it would mean money doesn't go to them. All their claim of wanting to keep the 'purity' and 'functionality' of their products is steaming bull turds. MS does it, Linux systems does it.. Apple just wont do it because of $$$$.
The only reason Apple is still in the market is because of their non-computer products. I wont deny the Ipod and Iphone are great and innovative products.. but they aren't good products. The mobile market is perhaps well suited to apple's business model of built-for-a-few-purposes and locked-in capability. Everything else is just overly expensive crap imo.
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lol...ripley, if i knew what you know about computers...i'd lose my job. nice try though...you not so amazingly forgot to note that none of that stuff was even possible for mac in the 90s, even if you wanted to pay for it.
:rofl sometimes you crack me up :rofl
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Ripley... Apple works only with apple approved/backed stuff... which means companies that pay tithe to Apple. Win & Linux OS's like Ubuntu work with freaking nearly everything.
Not true at all, Vista and Win7 still don't work with many legacy printers etc. and linux hardware support is very marginal in the end. With linux the situation is backwards, legacy devices usually work and new stuff doesn't.
Sure, Apple software seems more stable..but then again, its working only with other apple software and primarily with apple hardware. The fact that Win OS is ALMOST if not more stable than any apple OS while accepting almost every known piece of hardware out there speaks volumes.
It's not only about how stable things are, it's about ease of use.
I'm not a fan of MS and neither am I a fan of Apple. But I have to give kudos where they are due. I have a hell of a time setting up the insanely expensive gadgets my father has to buy for his imac... which I always remind him would be costing 1/3rd less money to do the exact same thing if he just had purchased a PC. Not to mention I can upgrade my PC anytime I want..his mac is stuck on what it is and any upgrade he needs = a whole new machine. Ca-ching! apple.
He could get a powermac and have a case to upgrade to. iMac is like a laptop, it's inherently not upgradeable and people who buy it usually buy it for partly esthetic reasons. One should also note that part of the 'it just works' ideology boils down exactly to limited choice of hardware. People are willing to pay premium to have a product that they can plug in and expect to work - most Mac users would consider tweaking or opening the case as the last thing they'd ever want to do I'm sure.
I used to tweak windows, overclock, build watercooled rigs etc. Oddly enough my super-duper windows rig is getting 5% of the use lately and Mac 95%. I don't have the TIME anymore. The win7 box takes 20+ seconds even to wake up from sleep mode, the mac is open in 1.
There's also the concept of flexibility. The ability to function with a myriad of devices which you can jury rig or innovate. Apple hardware and software simply do not have this. Why? Because Apple doesnt want to allow it.. it would mean money doesn't go to them. All their claim of wanting to keep the 'purity' and 'functionality' of their products is steaming bull turds. MS does it, Linux systems does it.. Apple just wont do it because of $$$$.
The only hardware problem I've run into was when I upgraded to iPhone 4 and found out it doesn't accept the same 20 dollar car tobacco-lighter charger I used for the iPhone 3.
The only reason Apple is still in the market is because of their non-computer products. I wont deny the Ipod and Iphone are great and innovative products.. but they aren't good products. The mobile market is perhaps well suited to apple's business model of built-for-a-few-purposes and locked-in capability. Everything else is just overly expensive crap imo.
Hmm Apple has for long dominated photographs, newspapers, musicians desktops etc. And every client that sees I have a mac almost without exception comment 'I wish my company would let me have one too'. In fact some of our clients have moved to Mac already.
Surely most profits come from iTunes and devices around it, the computing side is far from meaningless though.
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lol...ripley, if i knew what you know about computers...i'd lose my job. nice try though...you not so amazingly forgot to note that none of that stuff was even possible for mac in the 90s, even if you wanted to pay for it.
:rofl sometimes you crack me up :rofl
And if I had your quick ability to judge people without even trying to understand what the discussion was about I'd surely lose mine! If you wipe the hate induced spitter and foam from your monitor you'll notice that I was responding to a claim that stated all of this was available already on 90's and was not Apples innovation. Gyrene I'm sure you have a long experience but in many ways I think you're getting old and are stuck to old technology and old ideas. Computing tends to move forward so fast that unless you constantly learn something new you're outdated.
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I like Mac... The iPod and iPhone are great devices. What I hate is the fanboys and fangirls who idolise the company.
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Ripley... Apple works only with apple approved/backed stuff... which means companies that pay tithe to Apple. Win & Linux OS's like Ubuntu work with freaking nearly everything.
:rolleyes: This hasn't been my experience at all. Can you give an example or substantiate this claim?
Not going to try and change the minds of those who've already set them, but my experience of Macs has been totally positive. I'm on my second Mac Laptop now. I use Boot Camp with a very minimalistic Windows installation just to play Aces High. I also have a copy of Parallels Desktop (although I seldom use it) which means you can run Windows applications on your OS X desktop without rebooting, and share files between the two.
I think the operating system is both helpful and supportive of all levels of user ability. This even changes with the same person from task to task. There is always an advanced user interface as well as a beginner's guide. I feel it does what it's supposed to do in an unobtrusive way, while my experience of Windows Operating Systems has been largely the opposite.
Regarding the price, it's important to compare like with like. Perhaps it's a fairer comment that Apple computers tend to be more expensive initially. You must divide this cost over the years of useful service.
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Opposum, if you're trying to draw a Jeep in your signature, remove the
instructions and just use ordinary carriage returns instead:-
/_|o[____]o
[1---L-OllllllO-
()_)()_)=°°=)_)
This disaster could have been avoided if only you'd bought a Mac.
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I seriously doubt that. Where was the automatic sync and integration with mobile devices in 90's? Where's the near automatic setup of backups built in the OS? Where's the online personal calender, webhost, image sharing and mobile device sync? Where's the 'track my hardware after it gets stolen' on 90's? Where's the built in integration with Google maps and services? Tens of thousands of free and paid apps? With apple things are as close to plug and play as you can get where on PC you're in for manual labour to achieve the simpliest of things just to find out its bugging out on you. People do not give credit to Apple how it set trends and created knowns out of things that were deemed impossible or hype by the mainstream PC people. People laughed about tabs before iPad. Now everyone plays catch-up.
The Apple motto 'it just works' is really where it boils down to. For people who don't want to spend time using the operating system as opposed to doing something productive, there's no better option at the moment than Mac.
Was mostly referring to OS X. Half those 'features' you listed are simple cloud services none of which were ground breaking. I was thinking of multitasking OS's with docks, widgets etc like X Windows, OS/2, and Workbench.
However, mobilewise, most of the early developers for iOS were Palm developers. I used Palm a lot.
My last "Palm" device was a Treo, it lasted 6 years. Outside of my phone calls it did automatic call recording; turn by turn GPS maps; push email; games; web browsing; sync'd with online services; Mp3 player with bluetooth A2DP support; tide tables; ballistics calculator; office doc's on the go; complete exchange sync; and many more apps. I only switched to Android just last year, that last Treo was a 6 year old device and could do things iphones still couldn't do.
As for it 'just works', I worked with an office full of apple people for 8 years including some highly qualified apple techs (enterprise stuff). Watching the pains of having to find 3rd party drivers for stuff like mopiers and 3G usb sticks was hilarious, or kernel panics, or the pains of the DNS bug that hit snow leopard for some users. Or how about that iOS 4 update for pre-iphone4's :)
It's a nice OS, but it's nothing special, nor innovative, just well marketed. Let's no forget apple are now totally dependent on the windows platform to drive new hardware development too ;)
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Was mostly referring to OS X. Half those 'features' you listed are simple cloud services none of which were ground breaking. I was thinking of multitasking OS's with docks, widgets etc like X Windows, OS/2, and Workbench.
However, mobilewise, most of the early developers for iOS were Palm developers. I used Palm a lot.
My last "Palm" device was a Treo, it lasted 6 years. Outside of my phone calls it did automatic call recording; turn by turn GPS maps; push email; games; web browsing; sync'd with online services; Mp3 player with bluetooth A2DP support; tide tables; ballistics calculator; office doc's on the go; complete exchange sync; and many more apps. I only switched to Android just last year, that last Treo was a 6 year old device and could do things iphones still couldn't do.
As for it 'just works', I worked with an office full of apple people for 8 years including some highly qualified apple techs (enterprise stuff). Watching the pains of having to find 3rd party drivers for stuff like mopiers and 3G usb sticks was hilarious, or kernel panics, or the pains of the DNS bug that hit snow leopard for some users. Or how about that iOS 4 update for pre-iphone4's :)
It's a nice OS, but it's nothing special, nor innovative, just well marketed. Let's no forget apple are now totally dependent on the windows platform to drive new hardware development too ;)
We can agree to disagree. You are correct some on the list were cloud services and as such nothing groundbreaking but where else can you enable them with a click and a login? No software installation, no background study, just click and use. THIS is the thing that appeals in Mac. Sure it costs, duh, even free software is not free since you have to invest your time with the BS it brings.
As what goes for office use, it seems that most of your 'pains' stemmed from using non-apple hardware. Instead of 3G USB dongle you could have enabled bluetooth on the iphone like we do. Couldn't be easyer. I don't know what mopiers is though. Kernel panics? Defective hardware most likely. DNS bug? No product is perfect. Are you saying your migration from 98 to XP and XP to Vista and Vista to 7 was absolutely flawless and you didn't do weeks and weeks of troubleshooting, hunting printer drivers and figuring out why software X now fails to work with several desktop users? That's what I thought too :lol
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i use both mac and PC and like them both. There just isnt point to say which is better, they are both good enough.
Im just planning to order new laptop for work and propably it will be a new macbook pro. :D
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For me it all comes down to money.
Mac = $$$$$$$
PC = $$$
Before I built my last system I looked at Apple stuff a little. I ended up building my own PC system, every part I ordered and put in it has at least a 3 year warranty. I've got a quad core 2.6 ghz processor, 8GB RAM, 60GB SSD hard drive with OS and programs and 2 500GB drives in a mirrored RAID for data. I put it together for < $700.
Looking at Macs with similar specs put me in the $1200-$1500 price range. And even they were not the same as I could find none with mirrored hard drives which was a must for me.
I'm a Photographer and built this system with that in mind, and my PC with Windows 7 runs Adobe CS4, Lightroom 3, ACR 6 and Photomatix and many plug-ins with them all without any hiccups. I'm sure they would work just as well on a Mac, and Macs are VERY popular with photographers. I just can't see what I get in a Mac for nearly twice the price that justifies it. :headscratch:
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For me it all comes down to money.
Mac = $$$$$$$
PC = $$$
Before I built my last system I looked at Apple stuff a little. I ended up building my own PC system, every part I ordered and put in it has at least a 3 year warranty. I've got a quad core 2.6 ghz processor, 8GB RAM, 60GB SSD hard drive with OS and programs and 2 500GB drives in a mirrored RAID for data. I put it together for < $700.
Looking at Macs with similar specs put me in the $1200-$1500 price range. And even they were not the same as I could find none with mirrored hard drives which was a must for me.
I'm a Photographer and built this system with that in mind, and my PC with Windows 7 runs Adobe CS4, Lightroom 3, ACR 6 and Photomatix and many plug-ins with them all without any hiccups. I'm sure they would work just as well on a Mac, and Macs are VERY popular with photographers. I just can't see what I get in a Mac for nearly twice the price that justifies it. :headscratch:
Yes I can fully understand that. I and my company are on the other hand willing to invest into equipment that saves us working time. Our computer maintenance needs reduced by 90% after switching from XP based PC's to Macs.
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The fact that Win OS is ALMOST if not more stable than any apple OS while accepting almost every known piece of hardware out there speaks volumes.
:rofl
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Did that say "crossbread"? fail
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Did that say "crossbread"? fail
indeed.
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And if I had your quick ability to judge people without even trying to understand what the discussion was about I'd surely lose mine! If you wipe the hate induced spitter and foam from your monitor you'll notice that I was responding to a claim that stated all of this was available already on 90's and was not Apples innovation. Gyrene I'm sure you have a long experience but in many ways I think you're getting old and are stuck to old technology and old ideas. Computing tends to move forward so fast that unless you constantly learn something new you're outdated.
come on ripley...apple innovation? do you believe al gore invented the internet too?
i can tell you're fairly new to the apple world...few people remember the old days of apple before the switch to intel hardware platforms and the shiny new osx...apples days of "innovation" passed when they switched to the intel hardware platforms...as of right now, they aren't doing anything differently than microsoft, and people have been smack talking microsoft for more than a decade...buy out a technology or license it...incorporate it into the os or package it up with an application bundle the slap the apple logo on it...
first generation of g5's had a bad back plane capacitor that caused the mobos to fail...first generation of intel systems had 3 known hardware bugs that hit about 25% (that's from an apple hardware engineer) of the units from the first run, and apple front line technical support would not acknowledge the problems as existing from the factory...i'm not even going to delve into the myriad compatibility issues of the earlier systems...
osx 10.0 had as many bugs as windows vista...so did os 10.3...the most stable os for mac so far has been 10.5 snow leopard...5 full operating system versions (not just patches and upgrades) since 2002 versus 3 for microsoft since 2001...
apple systems have their uses...for high end graphics, a pc, even a very high end unit can't hold a candle...but that's about it.
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My take on the apple vs pc debate (which will rage for ever and ever and ever)
I play in a local band, produce flyers/graphics for local business and run my own (admittedly very small mobile repair service for pc's, macs, notebooks, netbooks, etc etc etc)
For recording, graphics etc, I'd love to have a mac for that part of my life - easier to set up, it just does it. I can record on my pc, but get a lot of background noise, which requires filters to stop it dropping into my recordings. This noise is generated by the components in my pc - one of the other guys in the band uses a mac, doesn't have this problem to the same extent.
For everything else, I'd use a pc - the rationale being that I can just install, configure and away I go. Sure, I can do that on a mac too, but I cant afford to have 2 different types of computer (basically, I dont want to drop the $$$$ for a mac as well).
Fwiw, the macs I support seem to be very intuitive - so far I've sorted out security issues (google is your friend for some of the obscure stuff). I have more experience on pc's (mcse, ccna, mcp etc etc - perks of working in IBM for over 10 years in a support role)
Horses for courses chaps, personal preference etc. For the record, I much prefer unix - once you get the hang of it, its easy.
Wurzel
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<< loves watching the apple haters (iPhobes?) getting their knickers in a twist :rofl
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We can agree to disagree. You are correct some on the list were cloud services and as such nothing groundbreaking but where else can you enable them with a click and a login? No software installation, no background study, just click and use. THIS is the thing that appeals in Mac. Sure it costs, duh, even free software is not free since you have to invest your time with the BS it brings.
As what goes for office use, it seems that most of your 'pains' stemmed from using non-apple hardware. Instead of 3G USB dongle you could have enabled bluetooth on the iphone like we do. Couldn't be easyer. I don't know what mopiers is though. Kernel panics? Defective hardware most likely. DNS bug? No product is perfect. Are you saying your migration from 98 to XP and XP to Vista and Vista to 7 was absolutely flawless and you didn't do weeks and weeks of troubleshooting, hunting printer drivers and figuring out why software X now fails to work with several desktop users? That's what I thought too :lol
The apple cloud services turn on without software install because the software is already installed by Apple. Microsoft have been blocked from doing this for "monopoly" reasons, eg Windows Live services. No background study is also a concern. For example Back To My Mac - easy to use right? Just one password to access all your mac cloud resources... but wait... what is "Back to my Mac" - it's a l2tp vpn tunnel back to the apple mothership. Sure it just works but it is a huge security concern.
The USB 3G dongle? At the tiime the iphone didn't or barely existed, and certainly did not support tethering.
As for the migrations, no I'm sure people have had problems with the migrations from 98 and so on. Same as apple (who completely drop support for some apps and hardware as they move forward), especially as they replaced standard BSD libraries with their own rewritten libraries as they customized and 64bit'd parts of OS X.
So yes, you're right - no product is perfect. The standard fall back statement for apple fans once someone who has experienced the apple short comings corners them with some facts. As I stated before OS X is nice, but nothing special nor innovative, and despite not being able to dictate apps and hardware I think Microsoft have done an outstanding job with Windows 7 (yes vista sucked).
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:rofl
Try Watching mac's kernel panic, and have upgrade issues, and develop hardware faults (lol at macbook pro's going 'off colour' due to overheating). Nothing is more satisfying than walking past a mac owner and saying "hey it just works right?" during those times :D
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yeah cus Ive never seen PCs kernel panic, and have upgrade issues, and develop hardware faults. just imagine that! :O
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yeah cus Ive never seen PCs kernel panic, and have upgrade issues, and develop hardware faults. just imagine that! :O
More than that, I've never seen Macs have those problems either!
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More than that, I've never seen Macs have those problems either!
gotta use it for more than just checking your email and surfing the web... :lol
fact is mac's are not immune to the same problems people condemn pc's for...the problems are just easier to ignore
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yeah cus Ive never seen PCs kernel panic, and have upgrade issues, and develop hardware faults. just imagine that! :O
and no PC people hear deny bsod's occur. So what is your point exactly other than the standard apple fallback of "well pc's do it!" when... once again... cornered with the cold hard trust.
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i dunno man...i have win7 enterprise 64bit on my gaming system and haven't had a single bsod since i installed it last year... :pray
my work laptop had the 32bit version and i had 10 bsods in 6 months...now it's flying along with the 64bit version...see how it goes.
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i dunno man...i have win7 enterprise 64bit on my gaming system and haven't had a single bsod since i installed it last year... :pray
my work laptop had the 32bit version and i had 10 bsods in 6 months...now it's flying along with the 64bit version...see how it goes.
Same, XP used to be very stable for me as well (still is I dual boot my gaming rig into it for the old Nvidia Stereo 3D driver support). That said I see others with BSOD's occasionally so whether it's the OS or bad memory... whatever, I'm happy to admit Windows is not perfect. I just find it amusing that apple fans will argue how stable OS X is until you point out that there are issues then they revert to the "but PC's BSOD!" stuff :)
What really grinds me is apple users who have problems then will blame everything around them but their system. The DNS issue with Safari in Snow Leopard was a good example, for some wierd reason it would just not talk to some DNS servers, we had machines that would talk to Unix DNS but not MS, others that would talk to MS but not Apples own DNS, and the wierd problem was it seemed to be isolated to Safari (throw firefox on and it worked fine). We had to demonstrate to each user the problem and show safari vs firefox to prove it was a apple related issue.
Then to top it off we had a training environment that had a bunch of brand new imac's have the issue. A trainer went off his nut at me over it, blaming our network for everything including the demise of the roman empire. Ironically the first use for this training setup had been for one of my network classes, but we bootcamped the machines into Windows (the course required VM plus AD functionality on the trainee machines) and we never had a problem.
So we sat down with the Apple trainer, booted the machine, tried a website in Safari... it failed to get there. Booted into Win 7... surfed no problems (ie same hardware different OS). Repeated on 3 machines. Then ran Firefox and showed no problems on OS X on 3 machines. Because the training lab was isolated from the corporate network the DNS was external pointing to the ISP (so some sort of Unix DNS box) they couldn't blame microsoft for this one :) . He apologised in the end, which was nice, but the crap I got thrown at me by him and his bosses until I proved beyond all reasonable doubt it was an apple problem was massive.
So in case some of you wonder why I'm somewhat apple misaligned... this is one of the many examples why.
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gotta use it for more than just checking your email and surfing the web... :lol
fact is mac's are not immune to the same problems people condemn pc's for...the problems are just easier to ignore
Macs do have problems - only a retarded fanboi would deny that. But I find Macs far easier to deal with than I have ever found Windows - teh interwebs, music, games (those which work on macs, that is), random programs which do helpful things off the internet, just generally screwing around, backing it up, using wireless, connecting to the internet - all of those things I enjoy FAR more on the Mac than the PC. And then there's the ever present factor that the OS and the hardware are done by the same company, which saves immense amounts of time when it comes to dealing with warranties, working out if X program will work, or just getting repairs done.
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its strange how problems with OSX seem to effect people who dont actually own, use and administer Macs much more than those that do :headscratch:
must be some kind of halo effect.
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Mac = Prius, fashionable but overpriced, doesn't break if you're not using it, for iEgo, there's a Lexus badge too
PC = Pickup/SUV, versatile, breaks on occasion
Linux = from tiny scooter, off-road 4x4, to pure muscle, basically whatever you want it be, do-it-yourself-fix-it-yourself
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come on ripley...apple innovation? do you believe al gore invented the internet too?
i can tell you're fairly new to the apple world...few people remember the old days of apple before the switch to intel hardware platforms and the shiny new osx...apples days of "innovation" passed when they switched to the intel hardware platforms...as of right now, they aren't doing anything differently than microsoft, and people have been smack talking microsoft for more than a decade...buy out a technology or license it...incorporate it into the os or package it up with an application bundle the slap the apple logo on it...
first generation of g5's had a bad back plane capacitor that caused the mobos to fail...first generation of intel systems had 3 known hardware bugs that hit about 25% (that's from an apple hardware engineer) of the units from the first run, and apple front line technical support would not acknowledge the problems as existing from the factory...i'm not even going to delve into the myriad compatibility issues of the earlier systems...
osx 10.0 had as many bugs as windows vista...so did os 10.3...the most stable os for mac so far has been 10.5 snow leopard...5 full operating system versions (not just patches and upgrades) since 2002 versus 3 for microsoft since 2001...
apple systems have their uses...for high end graphics, a pc, even a very high end unit can't hold a candle...but that's about it.
The early days of Mac introduced a graphical UI when PC was stuck in DOS prompt. As of now despite Intel hardware they're doing everything different from Microsoft. They're optimized for specific hardware. The OS is totally different, better I may add. They went for thunderbolt. They invented the tablet boom. They invented the app store. They did the app store right (Google / MS mobile devices are riddled with malware already) so double fail for followers. They reinvented the smart phone with iPhone - smart phones were clunky and fail prone when Nokia was still king with the communicator. I know, I had a few. They integrated everything to an easy to use convenient package with a pricetag. Some can't afford it - too bad for them.
So you point at apple for a fault that hit every Intel fab PC's included? Very observant :D Or are you saying now that Apple is still doing it different from PC makers despite being Intel? :lol
Oh gee did some G5's have a bad capacitor? So you're saying no PC maker ever had defects in their production runs? I thought whole production lines went to the crapper multitude of times in recent history. Forgot about Sandy Bridge already? Oh that was surely Apples fault too! Dam Steve Jobs! I had 20 Toshiba laptops die within 6 months from the same batch, surely there was a small Apple logo somewhere? Now that you mentioned, surely there were tiny little Apple logos in those 3 motherboards that were replaced to my Centrino2 duo laptop before dumping it for Macs! If I only knew... But somehow hardware/software related failures dropped by 90% when we switched to this faulty crap called Apple.
So OSX had claimedly as many faults as Vista. But the faults obviously were not nearly as serious since everyone loves OSX and at the same time hates Vista. Could that have something to do with *gasp* hardware? Vista sucked because the drivers were broken for years. Still are for some part. Vistas downfall was the wide selection of hardware available (that didn't work). Well, counter-intuitive UI changed for no reason didn't help people like it either. Or UAC breaking the few remaining apps that would manage to boot up :)
Or the 20 000 new malware variant/viruses written daily for windows platform. Or product activation bug that killed thousands of Vista boxes. Or service packs that rendered thousands of computers unbootable. Or the mindboggling array of problems that are not possible to even list here.
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its strange how problems with OSX seem to effect people who dont actually own, use and administer Macs much more than those that do :headscratch:
must be some kind of halo effect.
what amazes me is the blindness all the new mac users have to fact that it hasn't been as perfect as they want to make everyone believe...and why is that those who own, use and administer macs can't fix their own carp?
i'm willing to bet most of you mac fanboiz on this discussion never owned or used an apple product until osx...otherwise there would be a closer view of reality.
ripley, give it up...i was working with and fixing apple/mac issues long before you discovered the thrill of osx...i've seen the myriad problems apple has caused over the years with their zero backward compatibility policies...and the only reason people like yourself are sudden fanboiz is because apple did the smart thing and got rid of their proprietary hardware platforms to adopt the pc market hardware platform...
microsoft just makes a better target since it's everywhere...
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ripley, give it up...i was working with and fixing apple/mac issues long before you discovered the thrill of osx...i've seen the myriad problems apple has caused over the years with their zero backward compatibility policies...
Too bad for you. I'm sure every Toyota repairman hates Toyota too because they see nothing but broken Toyotas all day long! Man every friggin Toyota they work on is broken go figure! lol!
Dumping backwards compatibility is what Microsoft should have done too, now they will carry an eternal weight of CRAP starting from security issues still found and exploited in 16-bit codebase.
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microsoft just makes a better target since it's everywhere...
nah MS make a good target because their product is pants. always has been.
edit: best thing about the iPhobes is you dont even need to dangle a baited hook to get them ranting and raging, you just say "Apple!" and retire to a safe distance. :lol
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what amazes me is the blindness all the new mac users have to fact that it hasn't been as perfect as they want to make everyone believe...and why is that those who own, use and administer macs can't fix their own carp?
I never said it was perfect, and I never thought it was either. But I do think it's very good for me, and very good at what it does.
i'm willing to bet most of you mac fanboiz on this discussion never owned or used an apple product until osx...otherwise there would be a closer view of reality.
This is a bogus argument. Windows Vista sucks IMO. Windows 98 was primitive IMO. Am I going to judge Windows on the basis of Vista or 98? No. I'll judge it on the merits of it's latest form (7), since to do anything else would be stupid.
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This is a bogus argument. Windows Vista sucks IMO. Windows 98 was primitive IMO. Am I going to judge Windows on the basis of Vista or 98? No. I'll judge it on the merits of it's latest form (7), since to do anything else would be stupid.
you ever work with system5, system6, system7, os8 or os9? primitive, sucked rocks, buggy...etc...etc...etc... during the powerpc era, each os upgrade had to be done in exact sequence it was released...couldn't go from 8.2.1 to 8.5.2 without all the junk in between being installed first...
apple has done a very good job of finding ways to do things better...after the pc market fails to find marketable working solutions.
Dumping backwards compatibility is what Microsoft should have done too, now they will carry an eternal weight of CRAP starting from security issues still found and exploited in 16-bit codebase.
i agree ripley...but consider the worldwide effect of doing that...pc to mac distribution world wide is something like 10 to 1 (more?)...think of the impact of doing what apple has done with every iteration of their os...if they had started with win95 and did away with the 16bit sublayer...it may have made a difference.
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I feel about Mac PC Linux whaterver kind of like these guys;
My Blackberry isn't Working. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAG39jKi0lI)
:lol :lol
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Or the 20 000 new malware variant/viruses written daily for windows platform. Or product activation bug that killed thousands of Vista boxes. Or service packs that rendered thousands of computers unbootable. Or the mindboggling array of problems that are not possible to even list here.
Lots of problem potentially because for every Mac there are at least 20 PC's out there?
And it doesn't matter how much malware exists, all it takes is one ;)
And if we're gonna do a "back in the days" thing let me point to OS/2 and Amiga Workbench which at the time ran rings around the MAC OS of the era, and OS X has drawn on a lot of their features (and X-Windows features). So I stick by my original comment in that apple are not innovative, they're just good at marketing.
But take a look at this thread, you've gone from "it just works" to justifying problems on the mac by saying the pc has problems too - which is far enough - by do you really stick by the "it just works" statement now?
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And it doesn't matter how much malware exists, all it takes is one ;)
And yet, with the vastly increasing numbers of Macs being used, there is yet to be a credible threat to them. I don't have the slightest clue about the relative security of the Mac OS vs the Windows OS, but I'm pretty certain that if there were a way to kill off Macs in large numbers, some ultra melon hacker out there would have found it and done it, if for no other reason than reaching new levels of ultra melontery/increasing e-peen size.
And if we're gonna do a "back in the days" thing let me point to OS/2 and Amiga Workbench which at the time ran rings around the MAC OS of the era, and OS X has drawn on a lot of their features (and X-Windows features). So I stick by my original comment in that apple are not innovative, they're just good at marketing.
Again, I won't pretend to know anything about the technical side of the various OS's (wth is the plural of that anyway?), but I have a hard time believing that the iPad and iPhone and general Mac products aren't in some way innovative. Just look at them - they came out before their future competitors had produced anything (AFAIK), and they completely dominated the playing field.
But take a look at this thread, you've gone from "it just works" to justifying problems on the mac by saying the pc has problems too - which is far enough - by do you really stick by the "it just works" statement now?
Never underestimate the appeal of 'it just works'. When I use a computer, I (generally) know what things I want to do with it, and just working is usually #1 on that list ;)
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And yet, with the vastly increasing numbers of Macs being used, there is yet to be a credible threat to them. I don't have the slightest clue about the relative security of the Mac OS vs the Windows OS, but I'm pretty certain that if there were a way to kill off Macs in large numbers, some ultra melon hacker out there would have found it and done it, if for no other reason than reaching new levels of ultra melontery/increasing e-peen size.
in mac os versions prior to osx there were few remote security holes...most threats came from using infected floppy disks...in osx there are remote vulnerabilities but they are more difficult to execute...not worth the trouble. apple has done a good job of securing the os, no doubt about it.
Again, I won't pretend to know anything about the technical side of the various OS's (wth is the plural of that anyway?), but I have a hard time believing that the iPad and iPhone and general Mac products aren't in some way innovative. Just look at them - they came out before their future competitors had produced anything (AFAIK), and they completely dominated the playing field.
actually palm os, windows ce/mobile, blacberry and kindle were innovations...iphone and ipad is just a result of porting osx to a mobile device platform...
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question for anyone who owns a mac and likes OSX, and has used Win7: what do you think of Win7 from a interface/useability pov?
Ive had literally an hour on it so far, just basic stuff. had to do some setup and thought the new Control Panel was confusing at best. other than that didnt have a chance to play around with it much. eg:
Are shortcuts and menu items consistent and intuitive across OS and Apps?
Do drag'n'drop, text services etc work properly across OS and Apps?
How about startup/wake from sleep/App startup/alt-tabbing/opening folders etc. speeds/responsiveness? (ideally on a dual-boot machine)
I've already heard plenty from XP users about Win7, just wanted some views from the other side :)
(not any kind of trolling here, I'm genuinely interested. just dont really have the time or headspace to evaluate it myself yet.)
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in mac os versions prior to osx there were few remote security holes...most threats came from using infected floppy disks...in osx there are remote vulnerabilities but they are more difficult to execute...not worth the trouble. apple has done a good job of securing the os, no doubt about it.
actually palm os, windows ce/mobile, blacberry and kindle were innovations...iphone and ipad is just a result of porting osx to a mobile device platform...
Well you can't deny that it was a very successful port (but I think iOS is different from OS X, but I may be wrong...).
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lol holmes...i'm probably going to regret saying this but... :uhoh ...i believe ripley could give you a fairly impartial assessment.
Are shortcuts and menu items consistent and intuitive across OS and Apps?
not sure what "intuitive" means but...there has always been some consistency with shortcuts and menus within the apps...the os menus have obviously changed...uac has made things a bit more of a headache, and security can be a real pain to deal with...the built administrator account can actually be denied full access to some things.
Do drag'n'drop, text services etc work properly across OS and Apps?
properly? yes...as well as osx implementations? no
How about startup/wake from sleep/App startup/alt-tabbing/opening folders etc. speeds/responsiveness? (ideally on a dual-boot machine)
sleep and hibernate functions work better than past implementations but i don't believe they are yet even close to the mac osx implementation.
app startup/alt-tabbing/opening folders is extremely fast...but those functions are generally dependent on hardware and running foreground processes just like just like any operating system...obviously those functions aren't going to respond as well on a system with minimum hardware specs as they would on one that is built for high performance...a bit of a loaded question really.
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Well you can't deny that it was a very successful port (but I think iOS is different from OS X, but I may be wrong...).
ya, no denying it is the most successful porting...going to be a battle between ios and android for the long term...
it's my understanding that ios was derived from osx using the core and building on that with different sublayers for mobile touch devices...
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...obviously those functions aren't going to respond as well on a system with minimum hardware specs as they would on one that is built for high performance...a bit of a loaded question really.
(ideally on a dual-boot machine)
:)
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And yet, with the vastly increasing numbers of Macs being used, there is yet to be a credible threat to them. I don't have the slightest clue about the relative security of the Mac OS vs the Windows OS, but I'm pretty certain that if there were a way to kill off Macs in large numbers, some ultra melon hacker out there would have found it and done it, if for no other reason than reaching new levels of ultra melontery/increasing e-peen size.
There are bot'd mac's out there. So the point is moot, there is a credible threat. It's worth noting Safari is also considered one of the most insecure browsers around and has often been the vector of 'hacks'. Remember hacking these days is extremely profit orientated, so most attacks are focussed on financial returns. While iOS devices will be of increasing interested OS X devices haven't grown significantly enough in market share to be attractive to attackers.
Most threats these days come in on socially engineered vectors, very few come via a true virus or worm. And 'social engineering' is platform independent :) . The difference is most handsomehunk users on Windows have a backstop, usually some sort of AV (which often includes more than just AV but antiphishing functionality and other stuff), whereas the average handsomehunk user on OS X doesn't have this stuff (and safari was especially slow getting any antiphishing functionality). For me, security is about redundancy and layers, I never trust one particular 'feature' for all my security because somewhere there will always be some handsomehunk who turns it off/tries to bypass it :)
And fwiw I'm not a windows fanboy, I think XP was OK, Vista sucked, I do like Win 7. I've used OS's like CPM, many flavours of DOS, GEOS, Amiga Workbench in all it's flavours, whatever Atari ST's used, OS/2 Warp, GEM, X-Windows once or twice, and so on.
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Well you can't deny that it was a very successful port (but I think iOS is different from OS X, but I may be wrong...).
iOS is a dumbed down version of OS X. Ironically I expect to see iOS ported the other way in the near future ;)
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wow there really is alot of uninformed nonsense being posted in this topic. :O
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There are bot'd mac's out there. So the point is moot, there is a credible threat.
If you don't play with pirated Mac software it's still like standing in the middle of a busy highway worrying nothing but the chance of getting a meteor hit to your head. Highway/cars naturally standing for windows viruses and the meteorite direct hit representing the chance of running into osx malware.
Snow leopard includes a built in malware filter that defends against the commonly known few variants already, even though its not spoken in public.
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wow there really is alot of uninformed nonsense being posted in this topic. :O
Hey look a vague unspecific comment thrown to the wind! Let me guess... you're a mac user? :devil
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If you don't play with pirated Mac software it's still like standing in the middle of a busy highway worrying nothing but the chance of getting a meteor hit to your head. Highway/cars naturally standing for windows viruses and the meteorite direct hit representing the chance of running into osx malware.
Snow leopard includes a built in malware filter that defends against the commonly known few variants already, even though its not spoken in public.
Nah not really. More like no AV on Windows is like playing russian roulette with a 2 shot revolver, whereas on OS X it's like a 20 shot revolver.
The malware vectors are not just pirated stuff, there's also the "educational video" codec one, and a few email vectors. Plus there's been some platform independent java stuff kicking around... and HTML5 will be - interesting :) (well actually it's already getting interesting).
The snow leopard protection has no automatic updates, and doesn't pick up variants of the known stuff (ie no heuristics). So you have malware protection built into the OS "that doesn't need malware protection", but it's meek protection at best.
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Hey look a vague unspecific comment thrown to the wind! Let me guess... you're a mac user? :devil
yup, and a mac admin.
and a win user and admin.
and a *nix user and admin.
so I guess that makes me a mac fanboi.
and a win fanboi.
and a *nix fanboi.
and probably a mac hater.
and a win hater.
and a *nix hater.
but hang on ... I cant be a fanboi of all 3, by definition :headscratch: maybe I just use the right tools for the right job, because that gives me a competitive advantage.
I havent answered any specific points for a few reasons, primarily because its just a deluge of BS and I cant be bothered. tbh, unless I'm a stakeholder in some way I really dont care what OS anyone uses. :)
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I moved to Mac two years ago. No problems whatsoever. I've upgraded the hardware on both my machines (obviously, I wasn't smart enough to realise that it was impossible to do this). I even have a GDI based, "Windows only" printer that I still use as as my primary printer. Yep - Macs certainly suck. :D
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Sssssh AKH, new policy, "The more you know,..." :lol
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I moved to Mac two years ago. No problems whatsoever. I've upgraded the hardware on both my machines (obviously, I wasn't smart enough to realise that it was impossible to do this). I even have a GDI based, "Windows only" printer that I still use as as my primary printer. Yep - Macs certainly suck. :D
if you weren't using a mac before the switch to intel cpu's, go sit in the corner...you're a mac noob.
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If you say so then you haven't used it, really. :) Sorry but it's just not believable :)
I was like you, I almost quit my job the day I had to migrate to Mac. I was sooo pro windows and sooo why do I need to re-learn this and that. And now they'd have to pry mac away from my dead fingers.
Had a 24" iMac bought in 2006. LOVED it. Played AH with it. It died just out of warranty. Oh the sorrow. I still loved it. Easy to move to watch DVD's in main room. Sorry it was pricey, but a wonderful box.
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if you weren't using a mac before the switch to intel cpu's, go sit in the corner...you're a mac noob.
Actually, the biggest change was the move to OSX, not the change to Intel. Also, even a Mac noob knows that 10.5 was Leopard and 10.6 is Snow Leopard, unlike you.
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I seriously doubt that. Where was the automatic sync and integration with mobile devices in 90's?
PalmOS was the first mobile OS to do that around 1996.
Where's the near automatic setup of backups built in the OS?
UNIX V7 had this in the early 1980's. You just had to turn it on.
Where's the online personal calender, webhost, image sharing and mobile device sync?
PalmOS again in the early 1990's. There was also a UNIX application which did the same thing in the late 1980's. I wrote it and distributed it for free (it lacked mobile support as mobile phones had not been invented yet). It also seamlessly bridged Novell, 3Com Networks and UNIX servers together. I would have included AppleTalk, but Apple would not allow it.
Where's the 'track my hardware after it gets stolen' on 90's?
Apple did not start that. Several companies had it before Apple did (Garmin, OnStar....)
Where's the built in integration with Google maps and services?
Apple may have been first, but I am not sure.
Tens of thousands of free and paid apps?
In the early 1980's you could download thousands of UNIX applications for free, from many Newsgroups.
With apple things are as close to plug and play as you can get where on PC you're in for manual labour to achieve the simplest of things just to find out its bugging out on you.
As long as you use Apple certified hardware, this is true. Not so much for hardware not certified by Apple.
People do not give credit to Apple how it set trends and created knowns out of things that were deemed impossible or hype by the mainstream PC people. People laughed about tabs before iPad. Now everyone plays catch-up.
This is just Apple's brilliant marketing at work. They are very good at marketing and convincing people they need something when they really do not need it. That is what great marketing is supposed to do.
The Apple motto 'it just works' is really where it boils down to. For people who don't want to spend time using the operating system as opposed to doing something productive, there's no better option at the moment than Mac.
That is highly subjective. I find Apple computers to be tedious and cumbersome to use. That is my subjective point of view. I also think their development environment sucks.
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Actually, the biggest change was the move to OSX, not the change to Intel. Also, even a Mac noob knows that 10.5 was Leopard and 10.6 is Snow Leopard, unlike you.
:rofl ...and "code names" are cool right? the biggest change was to the intel hardware platform...apple couldn't economically progress with osx development without it.
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ROFL
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PalmOS was the first mobile OS to do that around 1996.
I don't think you understand what I was getting to there... PalmOS support was hardly built in to any desktop computer like Apple has for its devices. They require little else than plugging in the USB to start syncing. Things are a couple clicks away in stead of having to read manuals with large warning signs not to plug your device before installing and running the driver cd etc. :) Or having to choose communication ports during setup (a task that's nothing short of disaster for any layman).[/quote]
No, you had to install the PalmOS utility into Windows. And how is that a bad thing? I was not aware Apple installed every application made for thier computer. That explains the higher price.
UNIX V7 had this in the early 1980's. You just had to turn it on.
Hmm, Unix detected your networked backup device automatically and offered you the option to schedule backups? I think a little more 'turning on' was required :)[/quote]
Yes, it did. Obviously you never worked with that particular OS.
The cool thing about OSX is that it makes things so easy that you can do stuff with no previous experience on it. A far cry of any *nix or even latest windows.
Tell that to the Apple software engineers who had to sit with me for a month as I continually locked up thier computer. All they would say, is, "You are not suppose to do that.", as they power cycled the computer. Never mind my 30+ years of computer experience. I can hard lock an Apple computer in less than 10 seconds.
There is nothing intuitive about any computer. The fact I find a UNIX CLI easier to use than anything (and faster for most things; yes, I won a $100.00 bet with an Apple engineer over that one), says a lot about how poorly designed most UI's are. UI's restrict people. They are designed for users who do not want to do anything but what the designer will allow. They are cumbersome for anyone who can actually think for themselves and like exploring the potential in what a computer can do for you.
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I haven't see that much hype since the last religion announced their savior was coming down to lead them to the promised land.
Bahahahaah :rofl :rofl :aok
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I don't think you understand what I was getting to there... PalmOS support was hardly built in to any desktop computer like Apple has for its devices. They require little else than plugging in the USB to start syncing. Things are a couple clicks away in stead of having to read manuals with large warning signs not to plug your device before installing and running the driver cd etc. :) Or having to choose communication ports during setup (a task that's nothing short of disaster for any layman).
Same applies for iphones/ipods/ipads on Windows. It requires itunes. No choice about that. Itunes needs to be installed. Microsoft could probably do the same for Windows, but anti-competitive law suits would drown them. Saying ohhh and iphone sync's out of the box with a mac is not saying a lot really (mind you an iphone won't sync to an older mac will it ;) - you had to upgrade the whole OS for that).
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psssst vulcan...this is ripley and the rest of the noob mac users:
(http://asalesguy.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/wildlife-monkeys-hear-no-evil-see-no-evil-speak-no-evil.jpg)
notice no one in this discussion who owned mac's long before osx are posting delusional garbage about the wonders of apple's innovations... :lol
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WOOT! I can't wait till it comes out!!! :D
(http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn279/opposum_01/Untitled-32.jpg)
opposum
read the last word on the first picture. 'crossbred' was misspelt as 'crossbreAd' :headscratch: FAIL.
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(http://www.designersreviewofbooks.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/knowitall_cover.jpg)
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It's interesting how the theme and direction of this thread has altered to produce the desired effect. First it started out with an unwarranted and uninvited attack on OS X. Several Mac users contributed their experiences and the argument steered into extreme detail about this irrelevant specific feature or that. Then latterly the attempt to discredit anyone who hasn't owned a Mac before OS X as not being qualified to comment at all. Finally the standard ridicule and insult ploy.
The irony is, those accusing some of the posters of being delusional Mac Fanatics have only succeeded in showing themselves to be irrational Mac haters, so you've kind of cancelled each other out leaving ordinary Mac users wondering why the crusade against Macs even exists in the first place.
What happened to the concepts of freedom of choice, objectivity, thinking for yourself and respecting other people's choices even if they differ from your own?
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well said :aok
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I also think their development environment sucks.
just spotted this - wow really? I havent done any windows app development so cant speak for the MS IDE, but having used Codewarrior for years (which was very good) I was blown away by how intuitive and quick working in xcode is. the interface builder is just brilliant, and the code editor is so good its the first time I havent bothered to work in my fav text editor.
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It's interesting how the theme and direction of this thread has altered to produce the desired effect. First it started out with an unwarranted and uninvited attack on OS X. Several Mac users contributed their experiences and the argument steered into extreme detail about this irrelevant specific feature or that. Then latterly the attempt to discredit anyone who hasn't owned a Mac before OS X as not being qualified to comment at all. Finally the standard ridicule and insult ploy.
The irony is, those accusing some of the posters of being delusional Mac Fanatics have only succeeded in showing themselves to be irrational Mac haters, so you've kind of cancelled each other out leaving ordinary Mac users wondering why the crusade against Macs even exists in the first place.
What happened to the concepts of freedom of choice, objectivity, thinking for yourself and respecting other people's choices even if they differ from your own?
the answer to your question is below...first mac noob b.s. post.
Have you actually tried Mac for longer than 5 minutes? If you did you might understand why people love it. When I first saw Windows 7 I was like oh geez this is like multitudes times better than XP in many ways and still so much worse in many places. But I liked it.
After I have used Mac for 4 years now I find 7 cumbersome, uninnovative and lacking in functionality. I choose mac over Win7 for every task other than playing games.
i'm not a "mac hater"...i'm just very realistic in my view of apple products being a long time user and repair tech...since the days of the apple 2gs...the osx platform and switch to intel hardware was a marketing coup for apple...not innovative.
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Ripley, I owe you an apology. I accidently modified your post, instead of quoting it as a reply. I am truly sorry. As a side note, had I been using an Apple computer, I would have still made the same error.
just spotted this - wow really? I havent done any windows app development so cant speak for the MS IDE, but having used Codewarrior for years (which was very good) I was blown away by how intuitive and quick working in xcode is. the interface builder is just brilliant, and the code editor is so good its the first time I havent bothered to work in my fav text editor.
I hated Codewarrior. For driver development it sucked. I almost quit my job over it. At that point I had written drivers for every operating system on the planet and Apple was the worst, by a long shot. The company hired an Apple programmer, which I had to work with. I have to say, he was the most arrogant programmer I have every dealt with. It was his way or the highway, no matter how stupid the idea was. He was gone in two weeks.
So I was stuck with working with Apple again. I was constantly locking up the computer during debug sessions. The debugger was not interrupt friendly at all. What really irritated me was the language used. Apple and Microsoft/Intel use very disparate terms for the same exact functionality/purposes.
I needed an Apple -> Windows and Windows -> Apple translator. Windows/UNIX/Novell/Banyan share a lot of the same terminology, thus an immediate comfort level was reached when I have gone between them.
Visual Studio and Codewarrior share a lot of the same features, but the debugger in VS is better. Of course, that is my opinion, and it is subjective.
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sounds like you were writing drivers for Classic/68k/PPC, in which case you have my sympathy :)
Xcode is just in a different league from the old MPW/Codewarrior IDEs :aok
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sounds like you were writing drivers for Classic/68k/PPC, in which case you have my sympathy :)
Xcode is just in a different league from the old MPW/Codewarrior IDEs :aok
Nope, I have used Xcode and the drivers were for a late model. I still do that from time to time. You have to remember, that Apple does everything it can to hide the hardware. In my case, I have to talk to the hardware.