Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: VAMPIRE 2? on March 03, 2011, 06:02:13 AM
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kind of like Krupnski's "perfect tail slide" I got some bases down on how it may be done. some of you have perfected it. any tips or tricks to this stall maneuver? :headscratch:
also I have managed to 180 my craft wings level without stalling maybe two times.yes basically right rudder and turn almost looking behind me and then snaps back forward. seems to only work in the heat of the moment, :O
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moot is the king of the "stall tale slide voodoo flip flop do-ma-hicky". Ive tried it many times only to find myself in the tops of trees
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Fly a P-38. When ya rope someone, hang on the props, use a bit of throttle and rudder just as they're stalling... A phenomenon known as giggling occurs.
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Usually fly the 38
Fly a P-38. When ya rope someone, hang on the props, use a bit of throttle and rudder just as they're stalling... A phenomenon known as giggling occurs.
I usually fly a 38, havent done that before :joystick:.Ive done a tailslide in a 109 though.
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Try it with your wings vertical instead of the fuselage vertical. Mind the torque.
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P47 requires rudder and flaps and 109's have to be slow and dot use rudder, I'll post a film here shortly
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I always fly straight so I can see what is going on..... :D
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I've perfected a move that takes out 2 cons following you, reduce throttle and perform a couple wing taps and there history
(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s35/68zoom/Dogfighting.gif)
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I've perfected a move that takes out 2 cons following you, reduce throttle and perform a couple wing taps and there history
(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s35/68zoom/Dogfighting.gif)
:rofl omg perfect :rofl
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I've perfected a move that takes out 2 cons following you, reduce throttle and perform a couple wing taps and there history
(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s35/68zoom/Dogfighting.gif)
Very nice :aok
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The 110 does this really crazy thing when ya turn abruptly at slow speeds. It can be great when recovered quickly to get on someone's 6. :banana:
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I've perfected a move that takes out 2 cons following you, reduce throttle and perform a couple wing taps and there history
(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s35/68zoom/Dogfighting.gif)
Winning with tigerblood :aok
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I've perfected a move that takes out 2 cons following you, reduce throttle and perform a couple wing taps and there history
(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s35/68zoom/Dogfighting.gif)
:rofl :rofl
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I've perfected a move that takes out 2 cons following you, reduce throttle and perform a couple wing taps and there history
(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s35/68zoom/Dogfighting.gif)
That guy needs to learn to fly, all he does is ram people.
:D
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ive done the tail slide in the pony and the jug same with the 38 really fun to do.
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That guy needs to learn to fly, all he does is ram people.
:D
i just fly inverted in bomber formations :D
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i just fly inverted in bomber formations :D
Did ya give the nme the bird and take a picture too? :eek:
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P47 requires rudder and flaps and 109's have to be slow and dot use rudder, I'll post a film here shortly
waiting!!! :aok
zoom has the funniest skit I've seen in a while lol :rofl wing tap them, "golden" :cheers:
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You don't need rudder to do a tailslide in a plane w/ alot of torque. If you're slow enough at the top of a loop snap your ailerons to the left and you'll slide.. controlling it is where it gets tricky.
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You don't need rudder to do a tailslide in a plane w/ alot of torque. If you're slow enough at the top of a loop snap your ailerons to the left and you'll slide.. controlling it is where it gets tricky.
well lets get into the tricky parts! :D
give a narrative video on 2 or more controlled tail slides. btw my p-51 will do a back flip type move. I wish I could explain it better :headscratch: :airplane:
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Krup, don't you use the rudder to bring your nose back around after you have tail slid as far as you wanted?
I have always used the rudder to stop the tail slide....
use the ailerons to keep the plane from rolling /twisting with the torque...... practice makes perfect ( lots of practice )
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I think I'll do a narrated video about this move... but when I have time.
P47 requires rudder and flaps and 109's have to be slow and not use rudder, I'll post a film here shortly
WRONG and WRONG...
To start the manoeuver is very simple but its behavior is quite different depending on the plane, attitude and speed (usually lower than 225mph) but the jug can do it at 275mph.
Just yank the stick lower left with right rudder and keep it there until you need to recover or aim to shoot... or crash
Why?
1- Left aileron: The right wing giving more lift, it generates more drag and therefore induces right yaw on the plane (Try it with the Ta152 and see what I mean)
2- Pitch up: Pitching up is the key here as the prop gyro precession will yaw your plane to the right on a clockwise rotating prop (Try the WW1 Camel and see what I mean)
3- Right rudder: fairly obvious, the keywords being "right yaw" is all you need to hear. You can start by a left rudder and yank it right to have some more momentum (like before drifting a turn in rallye racing)
4- you DONT need flaps to start this manoeuver. Heck I can do it in the 190 below 200mph.
As you can see, every control input will help your plane tail slide to the right against the aerodynamic forces keeping your plane stable in flight.
When you master it, you can do it with 500' of ground clearance and find more uses to it like starting a LH spin in horizontal flight, a RH hammerhead or doing a "farewell shot" to someone right behind you.
On a side note, the Bf110 (and TA152) does the same thing but with left rudder and is almost unrecoverable (Its a simple LH snap roll). RH snap rolls on the 110 are very safe however.
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It seems that 2 different maneuvers are being discussed in this thread and both are called tail slides. What is generally called a tail slide is an aircraft going vertical until it stops and falls tail first towards the ground. For clarity and good communication I think we need a term for the other maneuver being discussed. I'd call it a stall turn but that is already used as an alternate term for a hammerhead. I personally think of the other "tail slide" as a "Lepape" but I'm open to suggestions like stall spin turn or stall yaw turn.
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It seems that 2 different maneuvers are being discussed in this thread and both are called tail slides. What is generally called a tail slide is an aircraft going vertical until it stops and falls tail first towards the ground. For clarity and good communication I think we need a term for the other maneuver being discussed. I'd call it a stall turn but that is already used as an alternate term for a hammerhead. I personally think of the other "tail slide" as a "Lepape" but I'm open to suggestions like stall spin turn or stall yaw turn.
Gyro induced flat stall?
180 insta tail slide?
Farewell flat stall?
Spin of death?
No one really knows and that's why it remains so mysterious. Unless someone can point the official name for it from a worthy source we can only speculate.
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waiting!!! :aok
zoom has the funniest skit I've seen in a while lol :rofl wing tap them, "golden" :cheers:
I forgot...I'll post itI think I'll do a narrated video about this move... but when I have time.
WRONG and WRONG...
To start the manoeuver is very simple but its behavior is quite different depending on the plane, attitude and speed (usually lower than 225mph) but the jug can do it at 275mph.
Just yank the stick lower left with right rudder and keep it there until you need to recover or aim to shoot... or crash
Why?
1- Left aileron: The right wing giving more lift, it generates more drag and therefore induces right yaw on the plane (Try it with the Ta152 and see what I mean)
2- Pitch up: Pitching up is the key here as the prop gyro precession will yaw your plane to the right on a clockwise rotating prop (Try the WW1 Camel and see what I mean)
3- Right rudder: fairly obvious, the keywords being "right yaw" is all you need to hear. You can start by a left rudder and yank it right to have some more momentum (like before drifting a turn in rallye racing)
4- you DONT need flaps to start this manoeuver. Heck I can do it in the 190 below 200mph.
As you can see, every control input will help your plane tail slide to the right against the aerodynamic forces keeping your plane stable in flight.
When you master it, you can do it with 500' of ground clearance and find more uses to it like starting a LH spin in horizontal flight, a RH hammerhead or doing a "farewell shot" to someone right behind you.
On a side note, the Bf110 (and TA152) does the same thing but with left rudder and is almost unrecoverable (Its a simple LH snap roll). RH snap rolls on the 110 are very safe however.
well can't argue with you, king o all tail slides but in a k4 I don't need rudder to get it to "tail slide"
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waiting!!! :aok
zoom has the funniest skit I've seen in a while lol :rofl wing tap them, "golden" :cheers:
http://www.mediafire.com/?x11iue88ygien6a. If its a k4 its the right one
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http://www.mediafire.com/?x11iue88ygien6a. If its a k4 its the right one
Spit9s
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Spit9s
Chit, watch the film it crazy
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Lepape what you described is basically a vertical snap roll with side stick. I don't think that's what everyone else is doing and calling a tail slide. Some are actual tail slides and some are variations on stall turns. I think the OP is referring to Krupinski doing a vertical snap roll also.
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Chit, watch the film it crazy
That was hilarious! New mental note: Hold the trigger down when you lose important flight surfaces, you might hit someone on your way down! :devil
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That was hilarious! New mental note: Hold the trigger down when you lose important flight surfaces, you might hit someone on your way down! :devil
Lmao, I actual did a somewhat tail slide with 1 wing to just get a shot
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This thread reminds me of the SOS days. :rolleyes:
O king of the tail slide :joystick:
:rofl
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just listen to lepape2 - he's the jug god
(http://i750.photobucket.com/albums/xx147/MarineUS/Smileys/KingSmiley.gif)
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I've been doing a stall turn that sounds a lot like this in the Zeke, especially from the way Le Pap describes it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4YJn7dZnlw
Never knew what to call it and that is the only time I've really used it in a fight.
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I've been doing a stall turn that sounds a lot like this in the Zeke, especially from the way Le Pap describes it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4YJn7dZnlw
Never knew what to call it and that is the only time I've really used it in a fight.
That's pretty cool.. kinda makes you a dead fish for most.. besides that guy that was behind you of course. lol
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well lets get into the tricky parts! :D
give a narrative video on 2 or more controlled tail slides. btw my p-51 will do a back flip type move. I wish I could explain it better :headscratch: :airplane:
Draw it...?
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I've been doing a stall turn that sounds a lot like this in the Zeke, especially from the way Le Pap describes it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4YJn7dZnlw
Never knew what to call it and that is the only time I've really used it in a fight.
You're going vert doing it. moot does it in a 152 while in normal flight. Its the craziest thing ive seen done in a cartoon plane. Ive tried it over 100 times and every single time, I ended up augering or in a tree.
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Okay that's it you guys made me do it...
Here are 9 films showing ONLY this maneuver in action and with actual usefulness. Sometimes I overdo it but its pretty much the best I have. Some kills shots, some wound shots, some hits, some overshoots and reverse tables and of course, some crappy ones :rolleyes:
Films DOWNLOAD (http://www.mediafire.com/?x19fjleqia3dal2)
Turn trails on and use the guys on my 6'view to better understand their point of view from mine.
There is a 10th bonus film with bigrat in the TA just for fun.
It will be pretty much obvious if we are talking about the same move this tread is about or not.
:salute
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I'll post some films later of tailslides, stall turns.. etc..
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Okay that's it you guys made me do it...
Here are 9 films showing ONLY this maneuver in action and with actual usefulness. Sometimes I overdo it but its pretty much the best I have. Some kills shots, some wound shots, some hits, some overshoots and reverse tables and of course, some crappy ones :rolleyes:
Films DOWNLOAD (http://www.mediafire.com/?x19fjleqia3dal2)
Turn trails on and use the guys on my 6'view to better understand their point of view from mine.
There is a 10th bonus film with bigrat in the TA just for fun.
It will be pretty much obvious if we are talking about the same move this tread is about or not.
:salute
Hey I have an AH crush :o lol I sent you a PM Lepape2
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It is not a good way to share information about manoeuvres. :old
This is a 'reverse engineering jobs' :rofl
I'm tired to see posts that say and not say.
Just 1 or 2 film with a linear list of thing to do is what we need - don't tray example from my posts :rofl.
A linear list would be better because film viewer is
not the best thing to catch the sequence of input.
It does not show rudder input for example.
Plane are too small when you attempt to watch both players and so on.
Trails watching is a 'reverse engineering jobs'.
You had gave a list but i found that the result depends on some initial condition that
you have forgot to say.
When the action start?
Second films do the impression that you are able to fly in a range o speed
- from zero to 100 mph - and this is uncorrect. cc?
You don't flight. You try to stay in a stall state attached to the con azz :rofl cc?
So not only as the action start becomes important but how it continues is also important.
I want to comment this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4YJn7dZnlw
hoping that TinmanX will explain by himslef after.
1. Start to climb when between you and the con there is a fixed situation.
I don't know exactly which one it is.
One good thing to do is to force con in a flight state.
(For example. You have a 2k con high diving on you six.
Well, act so that he believe you are fast and at 600 yards pull up.
How? reduce or idle your throttle and follow a path that maximize the con flightpath.
He will get more and more speed to catch you. This example is not useful in the case of 'tail slide')
2. Roll (right).
How much? It will depend on climb angle and con flight path.
3. Use rudder to reverse nose into con direction, push a bit on stick too to not loose plane control by the use of
rudder, idle throttle. I don't know the exact amount and timing for all that.
:salute
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http://www.mediafire.com/?8451gqnrbr3ogoe
Heres a stall I use a lot and have been tweeking on.
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It is not a good way to share information about manoeuvres. :old
This is a 'reverse engineering jobs' :rofl
[...]
What's wrong with reverse engineering? Its not a no brainer move to learn and that's why many people dont do it or understand the principles or tactics behind it. A simple internal/external view from the con/yourself, be able to switch quickly between you and the con along with moving the mouse up and down on the vertical view slider is all it takes with a trail checkox checked. That's 4 things to remember. If you don't want trails, you are just shooting yourself in the foot...
Aside from the film viewer, the only thing available is narrated shots or a long AHII - to - YouTube process.
:salute
EDIT: The ability to let people analyse footage in the film viewer as much as they want with the many tools it has is a major advantage over the simple static video as well.
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hoping that TinmanX will explain by himslef after.
EDIT: The ability to let people analyse footage in the film viewer as much as they want with the many tools it has is a major advantage over the simple static video as well.
Here's the original .ahf. http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/oMtzTdRn13FbsVQS6Xx5ih40VzGxHO-8v8G98y6_ZlvzaHDJXEIKArezqUdkhUhX_Pwo22Z8Iwefe1XYi_kD/Reversing%20yourself.ahf
And to answer the question that's going to come, yes, he didn't shut up about it for over an hour.
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Here's the original .ahf. http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/oMtzTdRn13FbsVQS6Xx5ih40VzGxHO-8v8G98y6_ZlvzaHDJXEIKArezqUdkhUhX_Pwo22Z8Iwefe1XYi_kD/Reversing%20yourself.ahf
And to answer the question that's going to come, yes, he didn't shut up about it for over an hour.
"Not Found"
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http://www.mediafire.com/?8451gqnrbr3ogoe
Heres a stall I use a lot and have been tweeking on.
this move is relatively simple, it's a stall at the top of the vertical using some right rudder full engine torque and and the finish of the maneuver follow up with slight left rudder and aileron.
with the p-51 works the same except on the follow up you need to decrease throttle at least 50% and lots more rudder to stabilize. great move but works best with light high horse planes. :joystick:
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Lepepe2's stall move is much more involved and technical. all tho it seems uncontrolled, it actually can be quite controlled. with some hours of practice you will notice where you start the maneuver decides where you end up. the recover into controlled situation is actually rather simple, but quite a timely process. once you get the recover down pat, the maneuver can be accomplished under 200ft. not to be done at the top of a stall. in fact I do this maneuver at speeds between 150 kts and 250 kts with an upward attitude. it's amazing, crap turners can get zeros and brews back in front where they belong. but the most amazing thing "with luck" in the middle of the move you can get snap shots on your opponent almost 180 deg. in the other direction! but you need to learn the recover. or you will die :O
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Here's the original .ahf. http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/oMtzTdRn13FbsVQS6Xx5ih40VzGxHO-8v8G98y6_ZlvzaHDJXEIKArezqUdkhUhX_Pwo22Z8Iwefe1XYi_kD/Reversing%20yourself.ahf
And to answer the question that's going to come, yes, he didn't shut up about it for over an hour.
[/quote]
dead link
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All you have to do is tap the rudder some, play with the stick a bit and your Ta 152 will decide to fly backwards. Then you can bring your gunz to bear and kill the Spit16 that's sitting on your six.
http://www.mediafire.com/?v7c0cslejwxwwjt (http://www.mediafire.com/?v7c0cslejwxwwjt)
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Ah so you're loos. Well nice shot. I have been working on that move and trying to get it to recover quickly.
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All you have to do is tap the rudder some, play with the stick a bit and your Ta 152 will decide to fly backwards. Then you can bring your gunz to bear and kill the Spit16 that's sitting on your six.
http://www.mediafire.com/?v7c0cslejwxwwjt (http://www.mediafire.com/?v7c0cslejwxwwjt)
wont download
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Lepepe2's stall move is much more involved and technical. all tho it seems uncontrolled, it actually can be quite controlled. with some hours of practice you will notice where you start the maneuver decides where you end up. the recover into controlled situation is actually rather simple, but quite a timely process. once you get the recover down pat, the maneuver can be accomplished under 200ft. not to be done at the top of a stall. in fact I do this maneuver at speeds between 150 kts and 250 kts with an upward attitude. it's amazing, crap turners can get zeros and brews back in front where they belong. but the most amazing thing "with luck" in the middle of the move you can get snap shots on your opponent almost 180 deg. in the other direction! but you need to learn the recover. or you will die :O
Rodger that!
I took a Monster Jug up for a test run in the TA for an hour to attempt this move. There was a Zero Pilot playing on my tail that I was able to ALMOST get a guns solution on, but the recovery is VERY tricky for me. Sometimes it looks as though I had recovered, but then the plane wants to torque leftwards and/or the left wing continques to stall.
When recovering, I've tried using the opposite rudder along with the opposite joystick inputs, but I wonder if I should just use one or the other (maybe this is contributing to the continuation of the stall?
I find that if you hold the bird in this stall for too long, it will want to just continue on a snaproll or end up nose high stall (if I am remembering correctly).
I was also able to do a similar move in the 109K-4, I think Agent360 calls it a Torque Roll Reversal, while banking rightwards, but it feels much more violent and SA is very hard to maintain (I've lost sight of the con several times doing this move, but once in a while it turns out beautifully).
:salute
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I learned the "Hell Whip" for the spits! :devil
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It can be done in the p39d, but it is not easy to recover from.
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That was hilarious! New mental note: Hold the trigger down when you lose important flight surfaces, you might hit someone on your way down! :devil
You mean the Death Blossom move?
(http://www.gifsoup.com/view/50316/last-star-fighter-o.gif)
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OH dude I forgot about that movie... Awesome :rock
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Rodger that!
I took a Monster Jug up for a test run in the TA for an hour to attempt this move. There was a Zero Pilot playing on my tail that I was able to ALMOST get a guns solution on, but the recovery is VERY tricky for me. Sometimes it looks as though I had recovered, but then the plane wants to torque leftwards and/or the left wing continques to stall.
When recovering, I've tried using the opposite rudder along with the opposite joystick inputs, but I wonder if I should just use one or the other (maybe this is contributing to the continuation of the stall?
I find that if you hold the bird in this stall for too long, it will want to just continue on a snaproll or end up nose high stall (if I am remembering correctly).
I was also able to do a similar move in the 109K-4, I think Agent360 calls it a Torque Roll Reversal, while banking rightwards, but it feels much more violent and SA is very hard to maintain (I've lost sight of the con several times doing this move, but once in a while it turns out beautifully).
:salute
Be carefull because a zero can do it also... and very well :D
Opposite controls should work alright to recover safely. However, what makes recoveries difficult are the angles and speeds at which you attempted the tail slide. If I had time I could almost be nerd enough to make a graph of the sweet spot combination of speed and angle to attempt a tail slide safely...
Tail slides in the K4 are more violent probably because it is lighter and grips harder in the air. Its better not to attempt it with spits also because they tend to fall tail first easily after a wierd stall (like the Ta152).