Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: MachFly on March 04, 2011, 01:02:37 PM
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I'll like to have an option of keeping the autopilot in vertical speed mode.
I know all of you will be screaming that it did not exist during WWII, but neither did the autopilot that we have.
Say you have 3+ enemy fighters on your 6 and they are all faster than you, but you are capable of outclimbing them. So you just set you autopilot to climb at 5000ft/min (or what ever your airplane can do) and you'll be safe (just make sure you don't stall).
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This just doesn't feel right to me.
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This just doesn't feel right to me.
Could you elaborate on that? What exactly does not feel right?
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Climb rate depends on weight, power, excess thrust, altitude, starting E....
More often than not you'd stall out.
There's no reason to base it off of climb rate. Ever. Best climb rate will be at a specific speed, regardless of other considerations. Your best bet to outclimb anything will be to zoom then go into best climb rate speed once you slow down.
Take a look at the climb rate next time you engage auto climb.. It's NOT a constant. It spikes and jumps and dips.
Plus if you're in combat don't use auto pilot! You are trying to out climb somebody? Use your human input device to make your plane do just that.
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Could you elaborate on that? What exactly does not feel right?
why not just pull on your stick? if everybody has the same tools, then nobody has the advantage. the real advantage on pulling up is knowing that your enemy cannot keep the stick straight up as good as you can.
semp
edit: krusty he's talking about making it easier on him to rope a plane with his 109.
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See my last comment. He shouldn't be thinking to use auto pilots while in combat.
Also the other factors are at play as well... Auto VSI from what starting point? How will that work? Skyrocket you up like autoclimb does now? The thing about auto climb now is that if you can't make that speed it lowers the nose to make that speed. It's simple enough. Too fast = nose up, too slow = nose down.
How would that remotely work for auto VSI? Too low = ??? The game won't control your engine power, nor your flaps, nor any other inputs... What if it can't make the setting you want? Well that's going to happen in most cases.
Plus, just setting a climb rate won't determine your ability to out climb something with a lesser climb rate.
A P-51 can out-climb a 109K4 as long as it as more E.
Again, why would you even contemplate going auto pilot in the middle of a fight?
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Climb rate depends on weight, power, excess thrust, altitude, starting E....
More often than not you'd stall out.
There's no reason to base it off of climb rate. Ever. Best climb rate will be at a specific speed, regardless of other considerations. Your best bet to outclimb anything will be to zoom then go into best climb rate speed once you slow down.
Take a look at the climb rate next time you engage auto climb.. It's NOT a constant. It spikes and jumps and dips.
Plus if you're in combat don't use auto pilot! You are trying to out climb somebody? Use your human input device to make your plane do just that.
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Your best climb speed changes changes as well, just like you described it for everything else. You don't always have energy to zoom climb, if your loosing an outnumbered turnfight with aircraft that are faster than you in a straight you can outclimb your opponents at slow speed.
Your climb rate jumps up and down because your autopilot had trouble setting the speed and keeps overshooting it. Then it slowly decreases with altitude.
I might not have used the best example regarding using it in combat. However if you are flying on autopilot and want to gain a certain amount of altitude it is a lot easier to base it on VSI (give you wont stall & your VSI does not lag).
The simpler autopilots also climb on VSI not airspeed.
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why not just pull on your stick? if everybody has the same tools, then nobody has the advantage. the real advantage on pulling up is knowing that your enemy cannot keep the stick straight up as good as you can.
semp
edit: krusty he's talking about making it easier on him to rope a plane with his 109.
I'm not trying to make it easier for me, I'm trying to add another feature for everyone, a lot more realistic one.
BTW I do not fly 109s
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Best climb speed doesn't change much... It's an aerodynamic thing... That speed gives most lift over the wings. Over the course of climbing from the deck to 30K, the IAS for best climb varies maybe 10mph at most... 10mph won't affect climb rate all that much (try it out, you'll see only a minor drop in fpm climb rate).
You get best rate of climb by matching a set speed. Always.
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Best climb speed doesn't change much... It's an aerodynamic thing... That speed gives most lift over the wings. Over the course of climbing from the deck to 30K, the IAS for best climb varies maybe 10mph at most... 10mph won't affect climb rate all that much (try it out, you'll see only a minor drop in fpm climb rate).
You get best rate of climb by matching a set speed. Always.
Take a large airliner for example, your climb speed will be different if your loaded with cargo or if you have nothing on board. Your angle of climb is what stays the same, but since we don't have a gauge for angle of climb we have to use speed.
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Take a large airliner for example, your climb speed will be different if your loaded with cargo or if you have nothing on board. Your angle of climb is what stays the same, but since we don't have a gauge for angle of climb we have to use speed.
Your rate of CLIMB will change based on weight... NOT the actual optimum forward airspeed you achieve that rate of climb with.
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Your rate of CLIMB will change based on weight... NOT the actual optimum forward airspeed you achieve that rate of climb with.
It depends on both.
Sure it primarily depends on your weight, but if your lighter you can maintain slower airspeed therefore use that energy to climb.
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It depends on both.
If your lighter you can maintain slower airspeed therefore use that energy to climb.
Uh... no... I don't think it works that way at all...
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Uh... no... I don't think it works that way at all...
So you do not think your stall speed depends on weight?
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Assuming the OP is referring to rate of climb, You can set the rate of climb by hitting shift-X while the plane is at the angle of attack you want.
Isn't that essentially what he's asking for?
You want a ROC of 1000 ft/min? Pull back on the stick until you get 1000 ft/min ROC, then hit shift-x. You should be set.
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drone, i think he's wanting to maintain a specific airspeed and and maximum climb rate together...
machfly...try doing it manually...find the default climb rate for whatever you're flying then try to match that manually and watch your actual airspeed...you will see that the longer you hold on to that climb rate the slower your plane will go until you stall out
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drone, i think he's wanting to maintain a specific airspeed and and maximum climb rate together...
machfly...try doing it manually...find the default climb rate for whatever you're flying then try to match that manually and watch your actual airspeed...you will see that the longer you hold on to that climb rate the slower your plane will go until you stall out
No just the climb rate, I don't care about the speed.
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Assuming the OP is referring to rate of climb, You can set the rate of climb by hitting shift-X while the plane is at the angle of attack you want.
Isn't that essentially what he's asking for?
You want a ROC of 1000 ft/min? Pull back on the stick until you get 1000 ft/min ROC, then hit shift-x. You should be set.
You might be right, I got to think about that. I'm not sure if the same power setting & constant angle of climb will give you the same climb rate.
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So you do not think your stall speed depends on weight?
Stall speed has nothing to do with optimum (i.e. best) rate of climb.
If you're stalling you aren't climbing.
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Stall speed has nothing to do with optimum (i.e. best) rate of climb.
If you're stalling you aren't climbing.
The lighter you are the less AoA (Angle of Attack) you need to maintain lever flight at a giver airspeed, if you need less AoA to maintain level flight at that airspeed than you can use that AoA to fly slower or climb faster. Therefore lighter aircraft climb faster.
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Shift-x is what you are talking about and you already have it. If your airplane is incapable of holding that angle it will fall.
Now if you also want a dot command like ".rate 3800" just say so. Problem is you may not be able to sustain that rate which is what Krusty is saying.
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The lighter you are the less AoA (Angle of Attack) you need to maintain lever flight at a giver airspeed, if you need less AoA to maintain level flight at that airspeed than you can use that AoA to fly slower or climb faster. Therefore lighter aircraft climb faster.
Uh... No....
Climb is a result of excess thrust more than anything else. This from HT himself.
I don't think you understand how it works. I'm no expert but I think I understand more than you. I would suggest reading up on it more. You seem to be barking up the wrong tree?
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Uh... No....
Climb is a result of excess thrust more than anything else. This from HT himself.
I don't think you understand how it works. I'm no expert but I think I understand more than you. I would suggest reading up on it more. You seem to be barking up the wrong tree?
Extra thrust? I was using a scenario with the same exact thrust. You can't compare the amount of thrust if it's exactly the same.
I'm pretty sure I know what I'm talking about. You said "no" to my last post, please explain why you think I'm wrong.
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Shift-x is what you are talking about and you already have it. If your airplane is incapable of holding that angle it will fall.
Now if you also want a dot command like ".rate 3800" just say so. Problem is you may not be able to sustain that rate which is what Krusty is saying.
Absolutely you wont be able to sustain that rate forever, I never said you will. And yes that's exactly what I want.
Right now shift-x keeps your nose pointed where you had it, I want it to move to the rate I want it to (just like we have it with airspeed now).
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Extra thrust? I was using a scenario with the same exact thrust. You can't compare the amount of thrust if it's exactly the same.
I'm pretty sure I know what I'm talking about. You said "no" to my last post, please explain why you think I'm wrong.
I don't think so.
Your climb rate is a product of other variables. Best climb speed will give the highest climb rate regardless of what that product is. Like on a graphing calculator you just look and pinpoint the highest peak.
The wing's shape is fixed. At a specific speed air flowing over that wing yields the MOST lift. Go too slow you stall and disrupt airflow. Go too fast and it's not as efficient (or something like that). There is a sweet spot.
Now, climbing AT that sweet spot always yields the most lift, but how that lift is translated? It keeps you from falling out of the sky. The rest is a result of the engine "pulling" you uphill. That's where excess thrust comes in.
You're asking to solve the answer instead of the equation. You pick a number and want to intuitively fill in the variables. Problem is those variables can be anything. You know the answer is 42, but what's the question? You could arbitrarily say the question was "What do you get when you multiply 7 by 6?"...
Does that help? No, not really.
For maximum climb, you will always get most climb rate at the "best lift" speed. Once you have best lift the rest is clawing your way upwards.
And if you're not talking about maximum climb there's no reason to continue the debate because, frankly, we have angle climb already, and the other scenarios you can think up are too numerous to count. IMO you could set whatever you want, doesn't mean the game can remotely enforce it based on trim inputs. It's far more dependent on throttle.
The VS is the end product, and is variable. It's not a constant that you can set. Not with accuracy or reliability.
That's all I've got to say on the matter. Seems to be going in circles here. No offense meant, I mean. It just doesn't seem to be going anywhere. [EDIT 2: I mean that I lack the eloquence to explain it any better to you, and possibly the training/education to better explain what's really going on]
EDIT: Also, VS-oriented climb rates are really not that helpful.
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Climb rate is based on engine power with regard to weight of aircraft.
How fast I want top climb will be the deciding factor in which engine I choose when I am finished building my plane. More horses = faster climb rate
Stall speed will be 40 mph, regardless of how much fuel or weight I carry.
AoI is built into the wing design.
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I don't think so.
Your climb rate is a product of other variables. Best climb speed will give the highest climb rate regardless of what that product is. Like on a graphing calculator you just look and pinpoint the highest peak.
The wing's shape is fixed. At a specific speed air flowing over that wing yields the MOST lift. Go too slow you stall and disrupt airflow. Go too fast and it's not as efficient (or something like that). There is a sweet spot.
Now, climbing AT that sweet spot always yields the most lift, but how that lift is translated? It keeps you from falling out of the sky. The rest is a result of the engine "pulling" you uphill. That's where excess thrust comes in.
You're asking to solve the answer instead of the equation. You pick a number and want to intuitively fill in the variables. Problem is those variables can be anything. You know the answer is 42, but what's the question? You could arbitrarily say the question was "What do you get when you multiply 7 by 6?"...
Does that help? No, not really.
For maximum climb, you will always get most climb rate at the "best lift" speed. Once you have best lift the rest is clawing your way upwards.
And if you're not talking about maximum climb there's no reason to continue the debate because, frankly, we have angle climb already, and the other scenarios you can think up are too numerous to count. IMO you could set whatever you want, doesn't mean the game can remotely enforce it based on trim inputs. It's far more dependent on throttle.
The VS is the end product, and is variable. It's not a constant that you can set. Not with accuracy or reliability.
That's all I've got to say on the matter. Seems to be going in circles here. No offense meant, I mean. It just doesn't seem to be going anywhere. [EDIT 2: I mean that I lack the eloquence to explain it any better to you, and possibly the training/education to better explain what's really going on]
EDIT: Also, VS-oriented climb rates are really not that helpful.
That "best speed" you talk about depends on your weight. Here is why:
The lighter you are the less AoA (Angle of Attack) you need to maintain lever flight at a giver airspeed, if you need less AoA to maintain level flight at that airspeed than you can use that AoA to fly slower or climb faster. Therefore lighter aircraft climb faster.
Your airspeed is not always the same in the climb. It depends on your weight.
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Climb rate is based on engine power with regard to weight of aircraft.
How fast I want top climb will be the deciding factor in which engine I choose when I am finished building my plane. More horses = faster climb rate
Stall speed will be 40 mph, regardless of how much fuel or weight I carry.
AoI is built into the wing design.
So your saying that if you put the same exact engine on a C-5 and on a Cub their climb rate will be exactly the same? :headscratch:
And the stall speed depends on the engine? :headscratch:
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Machfly in your first example the faster aircraft would zoom up under you and shoot you down. It wouldn't matter that you can out climb them because they don't have to ram you.
If you look at a climb rate chart you'll see that the climb rate decreases with altitude for a given power output. This means that setting a given max climb rate will always cause you to stall as the air density decreases which is what Krusty pointed out to you.
Flying slower than your best climb speed doesn't let you climb faster because the higher AOA has more induced drag. Flying slower than your best climb speed gives you a lower climb rate.
The auto speed defaults to best climb speed which gives you your max climb rate.
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Best climb speed doesn't change much...
Best rate speed decreases as you climb. For a Cessna 206 (an example I'm familiar with) SL Best rate is 100mph IAS....it decreases as you climb, by 10,000' you're down to 83mph IAS.
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Isn't that because thrust is decreasing too?
I don't think auto speed will always give you the best possible climb rate but it's a good approximation and I think Krusty is approximating his explanation for MachFly.
Krusty's main point seems to be that setting a fixed climb rate will not do what MachFly thinks it will do.
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Machfly in your first example the faster aircraft would zoom up under you and shoot you down. It wouldn't matter that you can out climb them because they don't have to ram you.
If you look at a climb rate chart you'll see that the climb rate decreases with altitude for a given power output. This means that setting a given max climb rate will always cause you to stall as the air density decreases which is what Krusty pointed out to you.
Flying slower than your best climb speed doesn't let you climb faster because the higher AOA has more induced drag. Flying slower than your best climb speed gives you a lower climb rate.
The auto speed defaults to best climb speed which gives you your max climb rate.
If both aircraft are at equal energy at the bigging this maneuver always works (I fly a spit14, climbs at 5000ft/min with 50% fuel). I would never do this if the aircraft behind me have more energy.
The climb rate decreases with altitude for all aircraft, not just my, so the maneuver still works. Your right it will cause you to stall if you keep the same AoA for a long time, if you do that for about two thousand feet it works fine, than you usually have at least 1K separation from the enemy aircraft.
Flying slower than my best climb speed does indeed decrease my climb rate, however most of the time your this maneuver puts you in such position that you that enemy aircraft can not pull his nose up to you. I use this when I don't have time to accelerate to my best climb speed.
I don't think the auto speed gives you the best climb rate because it is 160 for all fighters, the number has to be different. (I might be wrong about this one)
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Isn't that because thrust is decreasing too?
I don't think auto speed will always give you the best possible climb rate but it's a good approximation and I think Krusty is approximating his explanation for MachFly.
Krusty's main point seems to be that setting a fixed climb rate will not do what MachFly thinks it will do.
It seems that Krusty does not understand my point, that is all.
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Assuming the OP is referring to rate of climb, You can set the rate of climb by hitting shift-X while the plane is at the angle of attack you want.
Isn't that essentially what he's asking for?
You want a ROC of 1000 ft/min? Pull back on the stick until you get 1000 ft/min ROC, then hit shift-x. You should be set.
Shift-x is what you are talking about and you already have it. If your airplane is incapable of holding that angle it will fall.
Now if you also want a dot command like ".rate 3800" just say so. Problem is you may not be able to sustain that rate which is what Krusty is saying.
You are absolutely right, shift-x does exactly what I want. (I did not normally use it therefore I forgot that it even existed and how it works)
Now all we need it to be able to set the ft/min climb for it.
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I don't think the auto speed gives you the best climb rate because it is 160 for all fighters, the number has to be different.
no it's not...default climb speed is different, for all aircraft...not sure where you got the idea that it was the same across the board.
Now all we need it to be able to set the ft/min climb for it.
you can, climb or descend...i use the stick to do it...just checked and no dot command
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no it's not...default climb speed is different, for all aircraft...not sure where you got the idea that it was the same across the board.
you can, climb or descend...i use the stick to do it...just checked and no dot command
So after take off if I press alt x the airplane would climb at it's Vy (or Vx)?
Right can use climb or descend on autopilot by setting it up with the stick, I'm saying I would like to have to dot command for the climb rate. Just like we have it right now for the autopilot at speed mode.
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i believe it's Vy optimal climb rate...fairly certain Vx is optimal angle
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Well you could always set an auto speed and then go into constant-speed mode. i.e. Using .speed 200 and hitting alt + x, allowing the plane to maintain the speed. Sometimes you don't even want best climb speed, because that speed could be too slow if followed by cons.
In the F4U-4 for example, I can reach high speeds at any alt quickly (just like the Spitfire XIV), and so what I like to do is use this speed to climb. What tends to work for me is accelerating to say, 300+ mph and pull up until I'm climbing JUST over 4000 fpm. You can either check the E6B or just go to zero G's just after you hit 4000 fpm on the VSI. Since your plane is so fast (and can climb well), then you'll be outrunning them more than you are outclimbing them. But since you're technically climbing at a shallow angle, you won't be losing speed quickly at all (in the Spit14 and F4U-4 anyway) and you're still gaining altitude at 4000 fpm.
Any plane that can't easily outclimb you will probably not be able to follow. You could even add a wide turn to the climb by simply banking in one direction without pulling more than 1 G (i.e. using gravity to pull you through the turn). Then the enemy will be tempted to turn tighter, climb and run after you, losing much speed in the process, while you're barely decelerating.
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Well you could always set an auto speed and then go into constant-speed mode. i.e. Using .speed 200 and hitting alt + x, allowing the plane to maintain the speed. Sometimes you don't even want best climb speed, because that speed could be too slow if followed by cons.
In the F4U-4 for example, I can reach high speeds at any alt quickly (just like the Spitfire XIV), and so what I like to do is use this speed to climb. What tends to work for me is accelerating to say, 300+ mph and pull up until I'm climbing JUST over 4000 fpm. You can either check the E6B or just go to zero G's just after you hit 4000 fpm on the VSI. Since your plane is so fast (and can climb well), then you'll be outrunning them more than you are outclimbing them. But since you're technically climbing at a shallow angle, you won't be losing speed quickly at all (in the Spit14 and F4U-4 anyway) and you're still gaining altitude at 4000 fpm.
Any plane that can't easily outclimb you will probably not be able to follow. You could even add a wide turn to the climb by simply banking in one direction without pulling more than 1 G (i.e. using gravity to pull you through the turn). Then the enemy will be tempted to turn tighter, climb and run after you, losing much speed in the process, while you're barely decelerating.
Yeah that works.
I usually just do a slow straight climb and then drive back to kill off the enemy. If I run straight both of us get more energy, if I climb I can dive back down while the other guy is still slow trying to climb up to me. Since spit14 can climb at 5000ft/min it's a very easy thing to do, and makes 1 v 2+ flights a lot easier.
You described how I can use alt x and than when the pitch is right switch to shift x. I think it's a long proses and it's a lot faster to just do that with a stick. But if we could have previously have climb rate one button could put you into a climb.
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It seems that Krusty does not understand my point, that is all.
I think you have that backwards but it's not worth arguing about.
Start with default auto speed for best climb rate then tweak it by changing the speed slightly and see if your climb rate improves. :old:
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I don't think the auto speed gives you the best climb rate because it is 160 for all fighters, the number has to be different. (I might be wrong about this one)
it is different. examples:
a6m's = 146
109e4 = 150
109f4 = 155
109g2 = 160
c205 = 164
f4f = 150
190a5 = 159
190d9 = 169
i-16 = 129
hurricanes = 140
ki84 = 163
mossies = 170
p51's = 174
temp/typh = 185
spit 5 = 160
spit 14 = 175
p40's = 144
p39's = 162
why do i have these #'s handy? i was bored one day and tested every plane :) :huh :uhoh
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i just reread machfy's posts...and realized :O ...you want the plane to do the work for you in a fight so you don't have to watch your instruments...lazy. :joystick:
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What your asking for is not possible.
You are asking for sea level best climb rate at all altitudes. Obviously since climb rate decrease with Altitude. This can not happen.
Best climb rate is achieved at the speed in which the plane has the most EXCESS thrust horse power. Thrust HP differs from break HP. in that it includes prop inefficiency.
HP definition is the ability to lift 550 lb 1 ft in 1 sec. I.E. Horse power IS climb rate for any given weight. Hence why best climb is achieved at the greatest EXCESS HP.
Excess HP definition is simply Thrust HP - Drag HP.
Drag HP Decrease from stall speed to about 140 % of stall speed then starts increasing. I.E. stall speed of 100 best climb will be around 140. 40% Is just a good rule of thumb.
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Definition Vx Vy.
Vy Velocity at which you achieve the best climb rate.
Vx is the Velocity at which the greatest climb angle is achieved I.E. most climb with least forward motion. It is used when a high structure is near the end of the runway.
HiTech
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What your asking for is not possible.
You are asking for sea level best climb rate at all altitudes. Obviously since climb rate decrease with Altitude. This can not happen.
Best climb rate is achieved at the speed in which the plane has the most EXCESS thrust horse power. Thrust HP differs from break HP. in that it includes prop inefficiency.
HP definition is the ability to lift 550 lb 1 ft in 1 sec. I.E. Horse power IS climb rate for any given weight. Hence why best climb is achieved at the greatest EXCESS HP.
Excess HP definition is simply Thrust HP - Drag HP.
Drag HP Decrease from stall speed to about 140 % of stall speed then starts increasing. I.E. stall speed of 100 best climb will be around 140. 40% Is just a good rule of thumb.
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Definition Vx Vy.
Vy Velocity at which you achieve the best climb rate.
Vx is the Velocity at which the greatest climb angle is achieved I.E. most climb with least forward motion. It is used when a high structure is near the end of the runway.
HiTech
I am actually asking for the ability to be able to set my climb rate for autopilot (like a dot command). I understand as you increase in altitude you will stall out, that is exactly why the procedures for all autopilots state that you should not keep your autopilot in VS mode for long climbs.
If I'm in a cruse and I want to enter a slow climb I'd be able to just type climb .1000 and start a 1000ft/min accent. Then it is my responsibility to turn off the autopilot at the right time (or before that).
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it is different. examples:
a6m's = 146
109e4 = 150
109f4 = 155
109g2 = 160
c205 = 164
f4f = 150
190a5 = 159
190d9 = 169
i-16 = 129
hurricanes = 140
ki84 = 163
mossies = 170
p51's = 174
temp/typh = 185
spit 5 = 160
spit 14 = 175
p40's = 144
p39's = 162
why do i have these #'s handy? i was bored one day and tested every plane :) :huh :uhoh
are thous Vy or Vx speed? (I'm pretty sure it should be Vy but I don't know for a fact)
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I am actually asking for the ability to be able to set my climb rate for autopilot (like a dot command). I understand as you increase in altitude you will stall out.
If I'm in a cruse and I want to enter a slow climb I'd be able to just type climb .1000 and start a 1000ft/min accent.
You can do this simply by setting the correct speed with the .speed xxx command and using auto-speed. You just need to take a minute to find the correct speed and note it for future reference.
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are thous Vy or Vx speed? (I'm pretty sure it should be Vy but I don't know for a fact)
I have no idea, they are the speeds HTC has coded in by default. I would guess they are a compromise between Vy at all the various weights the plane could fly at, but I'm no expert and dont have the real life documentation.
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You can do this simply by setting the correct speed with the .speed xxx command and using auto-speed. You just need to take a minute to find the correct speed and note it for future reference.
It will depend on your power setting, speed, altitude, and airplane. Would be a lot easier to just have to dot command for the climb rate.
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I have no idea, they are the speeds HTC has coded in by default. I would guess they are a compromise between Vy at all the various weights the plane could fly at, but I'm no expert and dont have the real life documentation.
It has nothing to do with real life documentation, just need to find out what HTC programmed.
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You can do this simply by setting the correct speed with the .speed xxx command and using auto-speed. You just need to take a minute to find the correct speed and note it for future reference.
I know what he is asking for, it's used in modern autopilots (i'm thinkin airliners), VS hold (or maybe VS select?) if i remember correctly is the name of the ap mode. I think it would be of limited usefulness in the game, since we're mostly dealing with oldschool prop planes where the performance is so different thru different alts, and we aren't dealing with air traffic control who like to see predictable vertical speeds in order to separate IFR aircraft from each other.
however, .speed (alt x) wont work to maintain a VS. .speed commands pitch to maintain a speed. likewise the auto-angle (ctrl x) just commands pitch to maintain the pitch attitude, wont maintain a VS or a speed -- the VS and speed will go wherever they go.
the OP's wish is to have the autopilot command pitch to maintain a vertical speed, and let the speed go wherever it goes.
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I know what he is asking for, it's used in modern autopilots (i'm thinkin airliners), VS hold (or maybe VS select?) if i remember correctly is the name of the ap mode. I think it would be of limited usefulness in the game, since we're mostly dealing with oldschool prop planes where the performance is so different thru different alts, and we aren't dealing with air traffic control who like to see predictable vertical speeds in order to separate IFR aircraft from each other.
however, .speed (alt x) wont work to maintain a VS. .speed commands pitch to maintain a speed. likewise the auto-angle (ctrl x) just commands pitch to maintain the pitch attitude, wont maintain a VS or a speed -- the VS and speed will go wherever they go.
the OP's wish is to have the autopilot command pitch to maintain a vertical speed, and let the speed go wherever it goes.
exactly, thanks
P.S. The name depends on the autopilot
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machfly, that's not how you started this discussion...your op makes it appear as if you want to be able to use an autopilot function for max climb rate + max climb speed in a fight...
Say you have 3+ enemy fighters on your 6 and they are all faster than you, but you are capable of outclimbing them. So you just set you autopilot to climb at 5000ft/min (or what ever your airplane can do) and you'll be safe (just make sure you don't stall).
still say you're being lazy...we can do what you're wanting to do with a keyboard + stick combination...
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machfly, that's not how you started this discussion...your op makes it appear as if you want to be able to use an autopilot function for max climb rate + max climb speed in a fight...
still say you're being lazy...we can do what you're wanting to do with a keyboard + stick combination...
Yeah I started the discussion during the end of my 3 day of no sleep period, used a bad example. Sorry about that.
Sure I can do it with a stick, but what's the point of having an autopilot at all if you can do everything with a stick?
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It will depend on your power setting, speed, altitude, and airplane. Would be a lot easier to just have to dot command for the climb rate.
If you want easy just hit auto speed. :D
Don't get me wrong, you can wish for whatever you like. :aok
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If you want easy just hit auto speed. :D
Don't get me wrong, you can wish for whatever you like. :aok
I want auto vertical speed :D
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Sure I can do it with a stick, but what's the point of having an autopilot at all if you can do everything with a stick?
autopilot is good when i have to go shake my other stick... :D :lol
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autopilot is good when i have to go shake my other stick... :D :lol
Well your lazy, take the computer with you :rofl
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I want auto vertical speed :D
Why do you want this?
HiTech
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Why do you want this?
HiTech
Say your cruising and want to make a shallow accent or decent. You can just set it to 500ft/m or 1000ft/m (of what ever) and there you have it. Here is a more specific example: Your flying at your mil. power to a fight 50 miles away. A squady tells you that there is a con at 12K, your flying at 10K. You want to be at least as high as that con not to be at a disadvantage but you also want to get there as soon as possible. Therefore you don't want to set your speed to the best climb rate because you will loose a lot of that speed and it will take time for you to accelerate again. You know that a given speed it will take you 4 minutes to fly that distance. So you set your autopilot to climb at 500ft/m and you arrive there at the fastest time and at the right altitude. You do not really want to be keeping your airplane on manual control for thous 4 minutes.
Also if your coming back to the airport and you know that at this distance, at approximatively this speed (your speed will change but not by much), and this decent rate you will be at the right altitude by the airport so you start your decent at that rate. (I know you know this one because your a pilot as well).
EDIT: Ignore my first explanation on the first post. It was after 3 days of no sleep and I was being retarded. It's a lot better to keep your airplane on manual control in that situation.
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just two things to point out:
i can climb 2k feet in less than 6k (assuming you were just out of icon range when your friend told you) hardly losing any speed.
i can dive my b26's from 8k to 0 within radar range to land safely. much less a fiter.
it seems to me that you really want to be able to rope people easier by setting auto climb at max speed all the way till you stall. that's the only advantage i see by changing the current set up.
semp
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just two things to point out:
i can climb 2k feet in less than 6k (assuming you were just out of icon range when your friend told you) hardly losing any speed.
i can dive my b26's from 8k to 0 within radar range to land safely. much less a fiter.
it seems to me that you really want to be able to rope people easier by setting auto climb at max speed all the way till you stall. that's the only advantage i see by changing the current set up.
semp
The numbered I used were an example, increase the numbers and you wont be able to just change you altitude and just do a vertical dive for your final.
It seems to me that you don't understand anything that's not about roping, no offence.
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joystick and shift+x...if you know plane well, that's all you need and it's faster than dot (###)...just sayin
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machfly i think we are all confused as to what you are asking, perhaps a better example would be good. if you just want something to get to 20k withing 2 sectors at max speed. well he already said no.
semp
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machfly i think we are all confused as to what you are asking, perhaps a better example would be good. if you just want something to get to 20k withing 2 sectors at max speed. well he already said no.
semp
I have no idea what your talking about. If you want an explanation to my request I can quote a few posts from the previous page, seems like majority of the people here & now understand exactly what I'm talking about. What do you mean getting to 20K within 2 sectors at max speed? To fly at max speed you need to be moving straight & level. Who is "he" and said "no" to what? :confused:
As you stated that you are confused please explain what part of setting the autopilot to keep vertical speed do you not understand?
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let me have auto-rope and auto-E-fight
priceless wish! :rofl
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let me have auto-rope and auto-E-fight
priceless wish! :rofl
Feel free to make another thread to request this, I don't know why you would talk about that here.
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You want an auto pilot that makes you escape from enemies using E fighting potential of any given aircraft.
That is the only way your OP can be read.
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You want an auto pilot that makes you escape from enemies using E fighting potential of any given aircraft.
That is the only way your OP can be read.
Here is the first thing I wrote:
I'll like to have an option of keeping the autopilot in vertical speed mode.
It has absolutely nothing to do with energy fights. It could help you when both airplanes very low on energy and have equal energy, but your a lot safer doing it on manual control. Also that would help you only if your airplane climbs a lot better that everything around you.
Read this post
Say your cruising and want to make a shallow accent or decent. You can just set it to 500ft/m or 1000ft/m (of what ever) and there you have it. Here is a more specific example: Your flying at your mil. power to a fight 50 miles away. A squady tells you that there is a con at 12K, your flying at 10K. You want to be at least as high as that con not to be at a disadvantage but you also want to get there as soon as possible. Therefore you don't want to set your speed to the best climb rate because you will loose a lot of that speed and it will take time for you to accelerate again. You know that a given speed it will take you 4 minutes to fly that distance. So you set your autopilot to climb at 500ft/m and you arrive there at the fastest time and at the right altitude. You do not really want to be keeping your airplane on manual control for thous 4 minutes.
Also if your coming back to the airport and you know that at this distance, at approximatively this speed (your speed will change but not by much), and this decent rate you will be at the right altitude by the airport so you start your decent at that rate.
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Say you have 3+ enemy fighters on your 6 and they are all faster than you, but you are capable of outclimbing them. So you just set you autopilot to climb at 5000ft/min (or what ever your airplane can do) and you'll be safe (just make sure you don't stall).
was this not also in your origianl post?
I'm not trying to be a dick Mach, sorry. Why don't we just auto-guns instead of having to aim? You are not capable of outclimbing the enemy, your plane is. If you can't do that yourself, no, you should not get an auto-option to do it.
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was this not also in your origianl post?
I'm not trying to be a dick Mach, sorry.
I used a bad example, that i'm fault. Try to ignore that specific example.
If you can't do that yourself, no, you should not get an auto-option to do it.
It's actually a lot better to do it your self at that point.
If you want I can explain exactly how that maneuver works and why I used that example, but that's not the point of the request.
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You could use auto angle as mentioned before.
Say your cruising and want to make a shallow accent or decent. You can just set it to 500ft/m or 1000ft/m (of what ever) and there you have it. Here is a more specific example: Your flying at your mil. power to a fight 50 miles away. A squady tells you that there is a con at 12K, your flying at 10K. You want to be at least as high as that con not to be at a disadvantage but you also want to get there as soon as possible. Therefore you don't want to set your speed to the best climb rate because you will loose a lot of that speed and it will take time for you to accelerate again. You know that a given speed it will take you 4 minutes to fly that distance. So you set your autopilot to climb at 500ft/m and you arrive there at the fastest time and at the right altitude. You do not really want to be keeping your airplane on manual control for thous 4 minutes.
Also if your coming back to the airport and you know that at this distance, at approximatively this speed (your speed will change but not by much), and this decent rate you will be at the right altitude by the airport so you start your decent at that rate. (I know you know this one because your a pilot as well).
EDIT: Ignore my first explanation on the first post. It was after 3 days of no sleep and I was being retarded. It's a lot better to keep your airplane on manual control in that situation.
So you climb 2k at auto best climb speed then you fly level to the fight and get there with max level speed. That's easier than figuring the math to know what rate of climb you need to set.
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You could use auto angle as mentioned before.
So you climb 2k at auto best climb speed then you fly level to the fight and get there with max level speed. That's easier than figuring the math to know what rate of climb you need to set.
True, but I would like to have the actual dot command for that autopilot, just like we have it for the speed.
I never thought that this math could be hard, I view it as basic. But then again what's wrong with doing a little math while playing the game? Sure this is absolutely not the reason why I want it implemented but it will definitely not make the game worse because it will not be a required feature.
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Say your cruising and want to make a shallow accent or decent. You can just set it to 500ft/m or 1000ft/m (of what ever) and there you have it.
This is a definition only, your just restating what you wish not why.
Here is a more specific example: Your flying at your mil. power to a fight 50 miles away. A squady tells you that there is a con at 12K, your flying at 10K. You want to be at least as high as that con not to be at a disadvantage but you also want to get there as soon as possible. Therefore you don't want to set your speed to the best climb rate because you will loose a lot of that speed and it will take time for you to accelerate again. You know that a given speed it will take you 4 minutes to fly that distance. So you set your autopilot to climb at 500ft/m and you arrive there at the fastest time and at the right altitude. You do not really want to be keeping your airplane on manual control for thous 4 minutes.
Nope life dosn't work this way. Something will change, want to arrive in 4 mins, no problem set .speed for 50 miles in 4 mins. You will arive on time but at no definition of alt.
But setting constant climb rate 500 would get you to 12 k 4 mins, but you would have no idea what your speed would be, hence you have no idea when you would arrive. And if you did know what your speed would be, you could just type that .speed and be climbing at 500 fps.
If your buddy is in a fight, he most likely would not be at 12k when you got their. By cruise climbing you would also be giving up a lot of E vs doing best climb to 12k then level. I.E. I can not think of a REAL situation where someone would really want to do this.
Also if your coming back to the airport and you know that at this distance, at approximatively this speed (your speed will change but not by much), and this decent rate you will be at the right altitude by the airport so you start your decent at that rate. (I know you know this one because your a pilot as well).
So if you know all this, just type in the .speed and adjust power for decent rate. It is exactly the same as type .climb command and adjusting power for speed.
So I see you asking for it, but I really can see a real use for it. All your examples would not work as you desire.
HiTech
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Right, I see your point.