Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: Hoff on March 21, 2011, 04:21:09 PM
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Hey everyone, I just started playing yesterday and I'm looking for some help in getting better.
Let me just start off by saying that this is my first true flight sim. I have flown planes and helicopters in the battlefield series, but that really doesn't compare to this. I did my research on A2A maneuvers and watched videos and stuff in order to prepare myself. I'm highly competitive and don't like finishing in second place. I have an extensive background in FPS and tank warfare, so I'm a decent field gunner, AA gunner, and tank driver, but I also wanna be a good pilot. I am seeking help from anyone willing to share. Currently I am using a Saitek X52 and I like to fly the P38 (because it's my favorite plane of all time and I love the way it looks).
I practiced for about 10 minutes offline then jumped into the fray. I started off pretty rough and occasionally got a kill or two, but never really got to land (most of my kills are in big furballs where I catch someone off guard). Then I managed to land my first two kill mission (which I really didn't get the kills, but whatever).
I was hoping that someone would be willing to watch the film and tell me what I did right and what I did wrong so that I can get better. I know I did a few things wrong and my gunnery is bad, but I was hoping that I at least did something right. Also, if anyone is willing to spectate me (I think you can do that, right?) or analyze more of my films, I'd greatly appreciate it.
Clicky (http://www.mediafire.com/?zvgq93d3j4z91f8)
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Welcome Hoff. :salute
The first thing I'd recommend is to be sure your views are setup properly. Practice flying aerobatic maneuvers to learn aircraft handling at different speeds and attitudes and practice keeping the airfield tower or offline drones in view while flying maneuvers. You need to be able to fly a max turn while keeping the bandit in view as well as flying at the edge of a stall and flying at the edge of compression in the P-38.
If our schedules mesh I'll look for you in the Training Arena.
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You didn't do too badly. You kept your "E", (energy) up and didn't get too slow. Your aim is pretty good, but don't make a habit of shooting that far out. When you see the counter change to 200, the target is 300 out and thats about where you want to shoot. Many people can hit farther out, but you loose some of the hitting power the farther you shoot. The only other thing is upping from a capped base isn't always the best either. It gets you into the fight quicker, but almost ALWAYS at a disadvantage.
oh and Soulyss, the guy you were flying with is one of the top guys in a 38, you should have talked with him! :D
Welcome to Aces High!
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Link to Delirium's P-38 clinic information: http://www.fw190.org/P38Clinic.htm
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Fugi's being too generous in his appraisal of my piloting skills, but I have been around for awhile and picked up a trick or two over the years. :)
I think the other posters in this thread have hit upon the first things to focus on. Get comfortable with the controls, get everything mapped to your liking which includes getting your views customized and saved (looks like you may have done this already). Then start exploring the flight envelope a bit. Practice low speed handling, and work on maintaining control while looking in a different direction. I like to go offline and fly barrel rolls and loops around the drone aircraft while keeping them in view, in a fight you want your eyes on your opponent or looking around for threats.
It can also help to realize that there is A LOT to learn here, some of the guys you're going to run into in the arenas have years of experience under their belts. Development and progress can take weeks/months rather than hours or even days. The good news there are a lot of resources to and a wealth of knowledge on these forums to help ease the sting of learning a bit.
Glad you found us, <S>.
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Hoff,
I dont have too much to add except that you should turn the stall limiter off ASAP if you dont have it turned off already.
Look at the clipboard map,goto options,preferences,flight and uncheck the box that says "Stall limiter".You can also enable auto takeoff from there incase your lazy like me and have other things to do during takeoff and climbout.
I'm often in the training arena,thursday and friday afternoons I'm there between 2pm and 4 pm est. but I'm also in there alot in the evenings so if you see me shout out and I'll assist you the best I can,I'm not in Delirium or Soulyss league in the 38 but IMHO a planes a plane they all have 2 wings and a prop!!
:salute
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I saw you up yesterday Hoff. First day! wow, you did great. I think it took me 3 weeks to get my first kill in AW. Of course it really helped when I quit using a mouse. LOL.
I would suggest seeing a trainer or working with a squaddie if you're in a squad. I often go to the Training arena just to experiment. That is to understand stalling, trim, flaps, and throttle control.
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People keep saying that the p38 is a good bnz but I don't see how, it has no boom since it compresses so fast. Anyone willing to set up a time to help me out? Oh and here's another film, obviously my gunnery sucks, but I wanna know how I could've survived at the end.
Clicky (http://www.mediafire.com/?br15rc50ddahddf)
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I'd like to suggest, as I myself came from FPS's years ago, to relax a little bit.
This sim has a huuuge learning curve, and the 'if I'm not first, I'm last!' mind-set
won't be of much use to you. Have patience, try not to get frustrated if you get
shot down too much.
With this sim/game, you just might get shot down a thousand times before things
start clicking.
With that being said, good luck! Keep your cool, have a sense of humor for Alt-F4
jokes, and welcome to the addiction!
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I rarely fly a 38. I don't think they are bnz planes at all. They are good stall fighters in my opinion because of their climb rate. A 38 in the right hands is annoyingly awesome. There's probably a trick to preventing compression. They do have dive breaks for that.
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I rarely fly a 38. I don't think they are bnz planes at all. They are good stall fighters in my opinion because of their climb rate. A 38 in the right hands is annoyingly awesome. There's probably a trick to preventing compression. They do have dive breaks for that.
Yep! Depending on the model of 38 they can be a darn good TnB plane too, when light (for a 38). A few simple things. The 38 is a heavy bird when empty, add the wrong fuel load and it's pushing 20k pounds, almost 2+ mustangs! Depending on what I plan on doing I'll take as little as 25% on-board and a drop or two. 25% internal isn't much flight time but if I get into trouble I ditch the drop and pray that it's enough to save my butt and i have plenty of fuel to get home (if i live). This is something I suggest you play with. Also, don't be afraid to play with convergence. The 38 has its guns in the nose so there is a lot of concentrated fire power there. Personally, I have mine set way out.
As for compression. Throttle back and get familiar with manually trimming your elevators up. I will often follow a better diving plane into a dive, well into compression, and throttle back, trim the elevators up and am able to pull out, much to their surprise. I've even managed to rip the wings off pulling out of a dive. If you see me I'd be happy to offer any advice I can. Though I'm not the best example of how to fly a 38 smart nor fly it well :)
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I've noticed two things already that are ticking me off. First off, it seems certain planes or players can pull 7-8gs and not black out because there are times when people will get on my 6 during a boom and I will break and black out and they will still cut inside my turn and hit me. Secondly, it seems that in order to be successful you have to play in the most annoying boring way ever and only fight when you have E advantage. Every time I fight I'm at an E disadvantage because climbing to 10-15k before every dogfight is the most boring way to play ever. I'm starting to get frustrated because I can land 2-4 kills then go 3-4 sorties where I die because it's 3v1 or they have E advantage or both. Plus because I'm flying the p38 I always get targeted first. If there was a stat for number of drag and bags or rope a dopes that get your teammates a kill, I'd be #1. Everyone and their mom goes out of their way to bleed all of their E in order to come after a p38 in a furball.
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I was taking to you on country last night Hoff, and you were clearly frustrated. I suggested you find Soulyss or Del. It appears you found Soulyss :)
The one thing you kept saying last night was you expected to be good at it fast. Isn't going to happen in any bird. Also understand that 38s are big targets and they do tend to get shot at first often as most times there is a halfway decent stick in them. The rest of us get shot down because we're also in 38s.
The 38 does a lot of things well. I don't know that it does any one thing best. I'd suggest you give a holler next time you see a SAPP driver in the arena and wing up. Just don't expect it's going to come fast and easy. If it's your favorite plane, the effort will be worth it :)
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the dreaded double post!
As for dying in a furball in the 38. I've been doing it for fifteen years or so between Airwarrior and Aces High. You've got a long way to go to be number 1 in that category in the 38 :)
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Hoff you can be sure that everyone has a 6G limit. As to the gameplay issues in the main arenas everybody has them. You can fly with some of the experienced 38 stick to see how they deal with it. If it gets frustrating you might want to do some 1v1 duels in the dueling arena for a change of pace.
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People keep saying that the p38 is a good bnz but I don't see how, it has no boom since it compresses so fast. Anyone willing to set up a time to help me out? Oh and here's another film, obviously my gunnery sucks, but I wanna know how I could've survived at the end.
Clicky (http://www.mediafire.com/?br15rc50ddahddf)
I'll try and come back with a few more thoughts in the morning I just gave it a once through before bed here. For a new player there's actually some good things going on, the P-51 bounced you and you got the fight slow (which is the right idea against a 51 in that situation) by forcing a scissors and gained his 6. The primary problem was that when you gained his six you spend about 30 seconds there where you didn't look around at all and were just focused on the 51. I know the kill is tempting, and you did get him but in the process you sort of sealed your fate as well.
Being low and chasing someone is prime target for someone else coming into the fight because they are A) going to try and clear their teammate and B) hope that you'll be too busy to defend yourself. A couple bad guys keyed on the low 38 and you were eventually overwhelmed. This was just a lesson in situation awareness, or SA. Like most things here it's an acquired skill, in the big fights like that you need to not only keep track of the bad guys but the friendlies as well. In this case open up the film and advance it to 6:38 where the 51 makes his first attack, pause it and go to the "fixed" view and pan around, look at the number of friendlies, their ranges and do the same for the cons/bad guys. Now advance it to the 7:46 mark, pause go to fixed view and do the same, a lot has changed, the Ki-84 makes you burn some E and then the F4U and Spit come in.
Like I mentioned before, there's a lot to learn and it isn't going to happen over night. Despite getting shot down there was good things in that clip as well, keep those in mind while you look at what lesson you can take away from this. Slowly but surely you start to put the pieces together and things start coming together, hang in there.
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First off, it seems certain planes or players can pull 7-8gs and not black out because there are times when people will get on my 6 during a boom and I will break and black out and they will still cut inside my turn and hit me.
In my understanding, if you pull lead it cause range to close if your both going same speed(read about this on the trainer site : http://trainers.hitechcreations.com/pursuit/pursuit.htm ). If he's slower, it negate a bit of the speed difference. If the badguy was close in but slower, even if you were speeding away, he still can pull inside you for a lead shot before you get out of range all the while pulling less G than you are. Happened to me countless times.
The primary problem was that when you gained his six you spend about 30 seconds there where you didn't look around at all and were just focused on the 51. I know the kill is tempting, and you did get him but in the process you sort of sealed your fate as well.
When I get into a big furball I'll give up a kill to defend myself. I don't mind getting shot down but I do what I can to prevent it nonetheless. If Someone is on to me inside of 1.5k he's the one I focus on.
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First off, it seems certain planes or players can pull 7-8gs and not black out because there are times when people will get on my 6 during a boom and I will break and black out and they will still cut inside my turn and hit me.
Most likely the con has chopped his throttle and is flying lead pursuit - he isn't flying the same speed and path as you and isn't pulling the same Gs.
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I wish films showed g's or blackouts because yesterday a p51 boomed me (this is what made me comment about getting boomed and still had him turn inside me) and was dead 6 at about 500 feet off the ground. I immediately roll right and pull the stick and go into a 7g flat turn for about 2-3 seconds. He managed to go from dead 6 with more speed that me and get a gun solution on my maneuver. I have no clue how in the world this happened.
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Do you have the film?
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Oops, I thought I linked it in the last post, here it is. I watched it quite a few times from different views with trails on and such and I still don't see how he pulled inside me like that.
5:15 ish is where it starts.
Clicky (http://www.mediafire.com/?g92zd602j4adhgc)
On a side note, I'm still looking to set up a time for someone to help me out if anyone is willing, I just have to schedule it around my classes. Otherwise I can just keep posting films if that is the preferred method.
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Oops, I thought I linked it in the last post, here it is. I watched it quite a few times from different views with trails on and such and I still don't see how he pulled inside me like that.
5:15 ish is where it starts.
Clicky (http://www.mediafire.com/?g92zd602j4adhgc)
On a side note, I'm still looking to set up a time for someone to help me out if anyone is willing, I just have to schedule it around my classes. Otherwise I can just keep posting films if that is the preferred method.
I watched the film. Here's what I think probably happened.
As you pulled hard to try and stay out of his guns, and tunneled down to black out, he was also pulling hard and since he had a good line on you he probably gave a sudden harder pull while he was shooting. Sure his vision probably went black, but he knew where you were going and going to be. He also knew that he only needed a hair more lead to get you into the bullet stream. Sure he was shooting blind for a brief instant. I have pulled like that to get a snap shot many times. It doesn't always work, but it pays off frequently.
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Hoff when can you be in the TA?
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I wish films showed g's or blackouts because yesterday a p51 boomed me (this is what made me comment about getting boomed and still had him turn inside me) and was dead 6 at about 500 feet off the ground. I immediately roll right and pull the stick and go into a 7g flat turn for about 2-3 seconds. He managed to go from dead 6 with more speed that me and get a gun solution on my maneuver. I have no clue how in the world this happened.
I watched the film. Here's what I think probably happened.
As you pulled hard to try and stay out of his guns, and tunneled down to black out, he was also pulling hard and since he had a good line on you he probably gave a sudden harder pull while he was shooting. Sure his vision probably went black, but he knew where you were going and going to be. He also knew that he only needed a hair more lead to get you into the bullet stream. Sure he was shooting blind for a brief instant. I have pulled like that to get a snap shot many times. It doesn't always work, but it pays off frequently.
This scenario is very possible, I just poked my head into the TA for a couple minutes and ran a P-51D w/ 50% up to about 360mph or so and you can pull a pretty steady 6G there and keep it in the "tunnel view", he could have pulled into full black out for the shot if the target had a predictable flight path. Maneuvering at speed is also one of the things the P-51 is very good at, probably better than the 38 in that regard.
If I get surprised and find someone that close to me at those speeds I try to create as much of a speed differential as I can as quickly as I can, this case it would have been to come back on the throttle rather aggressively and possibly skidding the 38 into the turn.
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This scenario is very possible, I just poked my head into the TA for a couple minutes and ran a P-51D w/ 50% up to about 360mph or so and you can pull a pretty steady 6G there and keep it in the "tunnel view", he could have pulled into full black out for the shot if the target had a predictable flight path. Maneuvering at speed is also one of the things the P-51 is very good at, probably better than the 38 in that regard.
If I get surprised and find someone that close to me at those speeds I try to create as much of a speed differential as I can as quickly as I can, this case it would have been to come back on the throttle rather aggressively and possibly skidding the 38 into the turn.
Yep, 51s are usually moving really fast. Throttling back and watching them blast on by while you duck inside their shot is always good fun. Of course there are some good 51 sticks who use the throttle too but most of em are going light speed and can't cut the corner when they need to.
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I wish films showed g's or blackouts because yesterday a p51 boomed me (this is what made me comment about getting boomed and still had him turn inside me) and was dead 6 at about 500 feet off the ground. I immediately roll right and pull the stick and go into a 7g flat turn for about 2-3 seconds. He managed to go from dead 6 with more speed that me and get a gun solution on my maneuver. I have no clue how in the world this happened.
I watched your Way Too Fast film and I have a couple of comments. The P-51 starts a little outside your turn so he needs less initial angle and doesn't sustain the hard turn as long as you do, he pulls hard for the shot but it's a quick pull.
You also have to consider net lag and the fact that he was shooting you at your position on his computer. The bandits shooting at you have a better angle than they appear to because your position information on their computer is slightly behind where you are on your computer, also the bandit is further ahead on his computer than you see him on yours. Those 2 slight differences in position add up to let a bandit hit you even when it looks like he doesn't have a shot. In order to really evaluate that shot you'd have to see a film made by the P-51.
In real life if the bandit is pointing right at you in a turn he doesn't have a shot until he pulls lead. Online if the bandit points at you on your PC he's probably pulling lead already on his PC. The bandits you shoot at on your computer are just where they appear to be but the bandit threatening you always has a better shot than he appears to have. You learn to worry sooner.
This is the same reason why a bandit can collide with you but you don't collide with him and vice versa.
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I'll be back home from class around 9pm central today.
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That's too late for me but another trainer may be available. How about the weekend?
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I'm free on the weekend.
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Hoff, if you are on later tonite, after 9 central, give a yell and you can wing up with any of the 80th guys on.
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I rarely fly a 38. I don't think they are bnz planes at all.
P-38 is an excellent plane for BnZ.
ack-ack
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Hoff I'll be in the training arena Saturday morning 10AM -12 ET.
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I watched your Way Too Fast film and I have a couple of comments. The P-51 starts a little outside your turn so he needs less initial angle and doesn't sustain the hard turn as long as you do, he pulls hard for the shot but it's a quick pull.
You also have to consider net lag and the fact that he was shooting you at your position on his computer. The bandits shooting at you have a better angle than they appear to because your position information on their computer is slightly behind where you are on your computer, also the bandit is further ahead on his computer than you see him on yours. Those 2 slight differences in position add up to let a bandit hit you even when it looks like he doesn't have a shot. In order to really evaluate that shot you'd have to see a film made by the P-51.
In real life if the bandit is pointing right at you in a turn he doesn't have a shot until he pulls lead. Online if the bandit points at you on your PC he's probably pulling lead already on his PC. The bandits you shoot at on your computer are just where they appear to be but the bandit threatening you always has a better shot than he appears to have. You learn to worry sooner.
This is the same reason why a bandit can collide with you but you don't collide with him and vice versa.
A fine assessment,this is exactly as I saw it and FLS saved me all that typing....TY!!! :aok
Lag is an issue we all have to deal with,I cant begin to count the times I've been shot down thinking,his nose wasnt even pointed at me.I'm sure from his end it was as I was killed,knowing that I tend to make my move a bit early rather than late in hopes of avoiding being shot by the con that hasn't quite pulled lead yet!!
:salute
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I've been noticing that most of my shots are high deflection snapshots, so people suggested I try out the 109k. I really like it, but I also really like the P38. Do you recommend flying two planes or is it best to stick to one?
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I've been noticing that most of my shots are high deflection snapshots, so people suggested I try out the 109k. I really like it, but I also really like the P38. Do you recommend flying two planes or is it best to stick to one?
Two different birds. There are some great 109K sticks out there.
No answer for you other then you need to have fun regardless of what you fly. Many of the 38 guys stick to 38s for the most part. Many of the 109K guys stick to 109s.
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Just starting out I'd suggest picking a ride and getting sticking to it. Right now you have your hands full with BCM/ACM, not to mention the plane. Once you are "proficient" then start flying other planes.
I have no doubt that when I started out, my devotion to the 38 stunted my growth as a cartoon pilot, but who cares! It's a sexy beast and I was having fun. It wasn't until a few months in that I flew much of anything else and, again, I tended to stick with it for a while. I think you will find that the top echelon players, in general, know the entire plane set and they know it well. The only way you can beat a tough opponent is to play your strengths against his weaknesses. If you don't know what they are you'll die a gruesome cartoon death... a lot.
:salute
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My $0.02 on the subject is to experiment a bit till you find a plane that you think you can enjoy flying for awhile and then I would try sticking to that type for at least several weeks, or even a few months. The reason for that as Clerick mentioned above is that it will give you one less thing to worry about, all the reading and research on ACM and plane characteristics is good but ultimately it comes down to how well you employ those concepts which means stick time and each plane is going to behave a little differently and require different tactics and you can minimize some of the work load by familiarizing yourself with one plane at a time.
Ultimately it comes down to fun and flying what is fun to you, I think the 38 is actually a tough plane for a new player to jump right into. It is fast, but not the fastest, turns well for it's size but again isn't the most nimble which means changing tactics a lot. I'm not saying don't fly it, I love flying the 38 myself but it's probably going to be a bit more of a challenge starting out than some of the other planes in the set. I would probably say the same for the 109K, a great performer but will be a bit of a handful for a new player.
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See, that makes me want to fly the p38 and 109k even more. This is mainly due to the fact that I hate flying planes labeled as noob friendly and I hate the way spitfires look (omg blasphemy, /flamesuit on). I also don't like any of the japanese or italian planes. That pretty much narrows it down to the 109, 190, and p38 series of planes. So far I've only tried the p38 and 109k. I like both of them. The 190 that I want to try is the A8, mainly because I like to have craploads of firepower, but I've been told it's a terrible performer.
I like the F4U1-A, P51-D, and P47-N/M because I love being able to stick to the same plane for attack missions as well as dogfighting. Only problem is that if I'm gonna fly an american ride, it's gotta be the p38. I like the LA-7 since I like to fly low, but hate the label that comes with flying it and hate the gun package. I don't like any of the spitfires or the italian planes, I do like the Hurri-D though (for anti GV when ord is down) and the Mossie (basically a slower p38, I use it when the fighter hangars are down). Then there is the 109k which I love because it's fast on the ground, has good, albeit hard to use, firepower, and can climb like crazy to catch bombers. Lastly, the 190 series, which I haven't tried but I suspect is going to be worse than the 109k performance wise but with better guns.
After playing a few days I realize that the way I like to fly, regardless of whether or not it is the best way to fly or the safest, is to BnZ at the start of a furball and then knife fight once the fight has been started. I really like fighting in the vertical, the rope a dope is probably my favorite move to use and works well in the p38 and the 109k. As for looks, the p38-L green skin is my favorite followed closely by the 109k's JG52 skin. These two look so good that I want to build a model of them (although I would probably want the shark/crocodie/whatever you call it paintjob on the front of the p38, kinda like how they do it on the A-10).
Anyways, those are just my thoughts at the moment,
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If u see me on i can try to help
u can ride with me or fly with me im fairly decent in a 38
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Scrap the 190 idea, thing is a piece of junk compared to the p38 and 109k. All it can do is go fast, it craps itself if you try to maneuver at all with it. Gonna stick with the p38 and 109k, dunno which to choose yet though.
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Scrap the 190 idea, thing is a piece of junk compared to the p38 and 109k. All it can do is go fast, it craps itself if you try to maneuver at all with it. Gonna stick with the p38 and 109k, dunno which to choose yet though.
With 190s you need to maneuver different thats all. Keep your speed up and use hi and low yo-yos to come back around on a breaking bogie. The same is is good for any of the faster planes, including the 38. The fun thing about the 38 is while it's great as an "E" machine, once you start getting slow, it's a pretty good turner too. As you found out the 38 is a BIG target and one of the first planes people try to pick, and thats because of the real good sticks in the 38 like Twin,Del, Souls, Guppy and all of them. They are tough to kill, and if you can get them while they are busy.... :devil
Hang in there Hoff. Flying and fighting are very complex skills, especially when done together. It can and will take months just to get comfortable. More time to be average, and more to be good. As long as your having fun, don't worry about it, you'll get there.
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Hoff I'll be in the training arena Saturday morning 10AM -12 ET.
Oops, I read that as 10pm-12. I'm a college student so there's pretty much no way I'm going to be waking up before 1pm central on the weekends haha. Are you available at any other times?
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Other than ordinance, what advantage does the p38 have over the 109k? According to http://gonzoville.com/ahcharts/index.php the 109k is better in every aspect, so my question is, what does the p38 do better?
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Other than ordinance, what advantage does the p38 have over the 109k? According to http://gonzoville.com/ahcharts/index.php the 109k is better in every aspect, so my question is, what does the p38 do better?
In my experience, the counter rotating props make those vertical much more docile then the K4. And you get a K4 turning against it's torque that turn radius becomes less of an issue. Oh! and the 38 has a superior zoom climb.
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Why would torque affect turn radius? I thought torque would only affect roll rate? Does the p38's heavier load and therefore better zoom climb make up for the fact that the 109k can climb like crazy with wep? I really like to rope a dope and I'm also finding the 109k more forgiving because I can tuck tail and run easier if I mess up unlike the p38. I do like the guns on the p38 better though.
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Why would torque affect turn radius? I thought torque would only affect roll rate? Does the p38's heavier load and therefore better zoom climb make up for the fact that the 109k can climb like crazy with wep? I really like to rope a dope and I'm also finding the 109k more forgiving because I can tuck tail and run easier if I mess up unlike the p38. I do like the guns on the p38 better though.
Most planes, maybe all but the 38, will be at a disadvantage while turning to one direction. I admittedly have a horrible memory on this but, IIRC, a vast majority of the planes in here will have a harder time turning to the right because the torque affects. I may have misspoke when I said affected turn radius. What it definitely WILL do is take a torque-monster like the K4 and cause a nasty spin if the pilot gets it slow enough and stalls out. This affect is even more pronounced if they are in WEP. Give it a try offline or in the DA. Try pulling hard into a stall and see what happens.
The 38's weight can be a great equalizer in the vertical. While there are some better climbing planes out there, with it's superior momentum it will perform very well in the vertical against these planes. In a long sustained climb, after the initial benefit of its greater momentum has dissipated, planes like the K4 will power away from it. Picture two people at the top of a valley. One weights twice as much as the other, but he's also weaker. They both start off on bikes down the hill and when they get to the bottom they start coasting, allowing momentum to carry them up the other side. The heavy guy will coast farther up the hill, BUT since he isn't as strong the other guy will be able to out climb him after they are done coasting. Now add in the stability of the 38 and it's counter rotating props and you have a plane that, when flown right, will match or exceed the better climbers in the vertical and when slow. Like the two guys on the bikes, if the big guy is able to slow to a stop AND keep the bike upright he will have another small advantage over the small guy who just tips over when his bike gets too slow.
Feel free to tuck tail and run in a 38 if you need to. Ride the edge of compression, or if i have to I'll blow right into it and use the method i mentioned earlier to get out again. Many of the planes that will follow you into a dive like that will not compress as easily but, as you will learn, their elevator and/or aileron authority gets very poor or they risk stress damage trying to pull out if they aren't careful.
I'm by no means an expert, i die more often in a 38 then I live (mostly because i loves me a good furball). My solution for the last few tours has been to fly other planes a lot more so i can learn what they do better and what they do worse in comparison to the 38. I'm convinced that the only way to be truly successful in a 38 is to have very good ACM and know the other planes as well as you know yours.
I'm sure someone will jump in here and correct/clarify anything I've said, but this last part is crucial.
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Why would torque affect turn radius? I thought torque would only affect roll rate? Does the p38's heavier load and therefore better zoom climb make up for the fact that the 109k can climb like crazy with wep? I really like to rope a dope and I'm also finding the 109k more forgiving because I can tuck tail and run easier if I mess up unlike the p38. I do like the guns on the p38 better though.
I expect he's thinking of a spiral climb not a flat turn.
Also remember that, all else being equal, heavier does not make for a better zoom climb, heavier just lets you dive faster.
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I expect he's thinking of a spiral climb not a flat turn.
Also remember that, all else being equal, heavier does not make for a better zoom climb, heavier just lets you dive faster.
Wouldn't that be heavier is better zoom climb, not dive faster? As an engineer, the thought of something being heavier falling faster than something lighter doesn't make sense to me.
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Wouldn't that be heavier is better zoom climb, not dive faster? As an engineer, the thought of something being heavier falling faster than something lighter doesn't make sense to me.
Doesn't greater mass have a greater gravitational force?
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F=ma so yes it would have a greater force, but the acceleration would remain the same regardless of mass/weight.
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So the acceleration is the same, the force is greater due to the mass, and in this case the force is thrust so the thrust overcoming drag is greater in the heavier aircraft?
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Ah, yea that makes sense now, but if the game model is that accurate, does it also take into account surface area? While a p38 might weigh more than a 109k, it most certainly has nearly double the surface area exposed to air drag.
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Ah, yea that makes sense now, but if the game model is that accurate, does it also take into account surface area? While a p38 might weigh more than a 109k, it most certainly has nearly double the surface area exposed to air drag.
As far as I know profile drag, induced drag, and drag co-efficients are modeled along with altitude air density.
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Other than ordinance, what advantage does the p38 have over the 109k? According to http://gonzoville.com/ahcharts/index.php the 109k is better in every aspect, so my question is, what does the p38 do better?
Kill the 109.
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As far as I know profile drag, induced drag, and drag co-efficients are modeled along with altitude air density.
would have to agree... had a B29 up to 30k...would hardly budge in a different directionm as oppsed to the thicker air at lower alts.
back on topic. It seems you have a thing for the 109K4 and the P38. Sticking to one would probably be best for a beginner, but if you enjoy both planes (albeit both havign a significantly larger learning curve), have at it and fly em both. I'm not a 10 year vet at the game like many posting, and while expierence normally gives better advice, it comes down to what you enjoy flying i feel. :salute
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I've watched your film and read the posts and even flew with you at a base defence, I'm in the film. I've flown with you several times now. I've seen other P38 pilots offer to wing up, you don't, I've seen many people give you check 6 calls, I've never seen you give one. That film that I'm in with you. I noticed that at several points you stop the pursuite. It may be lack of SA on your part. The NiKi was able to reverse on you and the P51 didn't pull that many G's You say you like to BnZ, but you attempt to do it from 100 feet. Takes to long to climb I think was your reasoning. Well, you pay the price.
You may find it helpful to actually fly with someone you can learn a lot by watching people make mistakes. You can also have a lot of fun winging up with other P38 drivers or wing up with anyone. Just don't go along for the ride, give a 6 call once in a while and by all means get a mic.
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I've watched your film and read the posts and even flew with you at a base defence, I'm in the film. I've flown with you several times now. I've seen other P38 pilots offer to wing up, you don't, I've seen many people give you check 6 calls, I've never seen you give one. That film that I'm in with you. I noticed that at several points you stop the pursuite. It may be lack of SA on your part. The NiKi was able to reverse on you and the P51 didn't pull that many G's You say you like to BnZ, but you attempt to do it from 100 feet. Takes to long to climb I think was your reasoning. Well, you pay the price.
You may find it helpful to actually fly with someone you can learn a lot by watching people make mistakes. You can also have a lot of fun winging up with other P38 drivers or wing up with anyone. Just don't go along for the ride, give a 6 call once in a while and by all means get a mic.
I sense a lot of hostility for some reason. I have yet to see anyone offer to wing up with me in game and every time I log in I'm sure to check for people who have replied in this post offering to wing up, but haven't seen any on yet. I don't do check 6 calls because people are usually already aware or someone else has already called it. Besides, I'm more focused on my flying and improving that. Once I feel comfortable with myself, I'll start giving out check 6 calls. While we're on that topic, I really don't find check 6 calls very useful most of the time. I'd say 1/20 times I don't already know there is someone coming in on me, all the other times it's just yelling into my ears what I already see.
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Update: It seems like the only people flying during the times that I play are flying p51s, 109ks, f4us, and la7s. I might have to succumb and fly a faster plane because all they do is make a pass or two and then run away when I fly the p38.
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I sense a lot of hostility for some reason. I have yet to see anyone offer to wing up with me in game and every time I log in I'm sure to check for people who have replied in this post offering to wing up, but haven't seen any on yet. I don't do check 6 calls because people are usually already aware or someone else has already called it. Besides, I'm more focused on my flying and improving that. Once I feel comfortable with myself, I'll start giving out check 6 calls. While we're on that topic, I really don't find check 6 calls very useful most of the time. I'd say 1/20 times I don't already know there is someone coming in on me, all the other times it's just yelling into my ears what I already see.
Whether you wing up or not is up to you. But as a friendly word of advise.
Its better to get or give a check 6 call when not needed then to not get or give one when it is.
Trust me you will find both giving and receiving them very useful the longer you are here
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I sense a lot of hostility for some reason. I have yet to see anyone offer to wing up with me in game and every time I log in I'm sure to check for people who have replied in this post offering to wing up, but haven't seen any on yet. I don't do check 6 calls because people are usually already aware or someone else has already called it. Besides, I'm more focused on my flying and improving that. Once I feel comfortable with myself, I'll start giving out check 6 calls. While we're on that topic, I really don't find check 6 calls very useful most of the time. I'd say 1/20 times I don't already know there is someone coming in on me, all the other times it's just yelling into my ears what I already see.
I think I sent you a private messge the day you started this thread. In it I invited you to fly with the 113th Lucky Strikes , a P38 squad. I offered that you can wing up with us any time. I also gave you the details for our squad night. I also broadcasted that invite to all our members to keep an eye out for you and told you to just come up on VOX 113 and check us out.
I know that when I saw you I asked if you wanted to wing up several times and received no reply , perhaps you were AFK . Maybe we can wing up next time, who knows. You may enjoy our wiki site, lots of film of P38's shooting down Every kind of aircraft you can think of. check it out. There are both films an AH viewer film.
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I've never gotten a message in-game (I didn't even know you could private message in-game) and didn't notice the PM. I'll keep an eye out.
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I sense a lot of hostility for some reason. I have yet to see anyone offer to wing up with me in game and every time I log in I'm sure to check for people who have replied in this post offering to wing up, but haven't seen any on yet. I don't do check 6 calls because people are usually already aware or someone else has already called it. Besides, I'm more focused on my flying and improving that. Once I feel comfortable with myself, I'll start giving out check 6 calls. While we're on that topic, I really don't find check 6 calls very useful most of the time. I'd say 1/20 times I don't already know there is someone coming in on me, all the other times it's just yelling into my ears what I already see.
I think you are missing the messages. Lots of folks have offered to wing up with you. Traveler and his crew, I know I said here and in the arena you could wing up with any of the 80th guys and we're a 38 bunch too.
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Trust me, I actively look. First thing I do when I start up the game is go into the TA and see if anyone is there. Second thing I do is if there aren't any trainers on in the TA, I go to the MA and open up the roster, sort by squad, and look for 113 and 80. I have yet to see anyone from 113 or 80 on, but today I managed to find FLS in the TA for about 20-30 minutes.
Thanks for the fights FLS, my butt still hurts from it. I got my bellybutton handed to me and I don't know how you did it, unfortunately I wasn't recording so I can't analyze it in depth. Oh well, I'll have to destroy some people in COD to make myself feel better then I'll get back on in the MA and see if I can kill anyone. It seemed like no matter what I tried, I couldn't get a shot on you unless you tried to rope me in the vertical.
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Also, I play very late at night, so that could be why I'm not able to find yall.
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Trust me, I actively look. First thing I do when I start up the game is go into the TA and see if anyone is there. Second thing I do is if there aren't any trainers on in the TA, I go to the MA and open up the roster, sort by squad, and look for 113 and 80. I have yet to see anyone from 113 or 80 on, but today I managed to find FLS in the TA for about 20-30 minutes.
Thanks for the fights FLS, my butt still hurts from it. I got my bellybutton handed to me and I don't know how you did it, unfortunately I wasn't recording so I can't analyze it in depth. Oh well, I'll have to destroy some people in COD to make myself feel better then I'll get back on in the MA and see if I can kill anyone. It seemed like no matter what I tried, I couldn't get a shot on you unless you tried to rope me in the vertical.
By flying lag pursuit and not turning as hard I often had my speed higher so I had more E and could turn better when you got slow.
Fun flying. :salute
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I thought slower = better turn?
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True. To a point. As you turn, speed will drop because of increased drag. As speed drop your turn radius will get smaller but you wont be able to turn your nose as fast as airflow around the wings become insuficient to provide enough lift to continue to pull max G.
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I thought slower = better turn?
This is there "corner veliocity" comes into play. You have two things you are looking at while making a turn; Turn rate and turn radius. A faster plane will make a larger radius turn and a slower one, obviously, will make a smaller one. However, just because a turn is smaller doesn't mean you come around faster. Each plane has a specific speed (i.e corner velocity). At this speed, the plane will complete a 360 degree turn fastest.
http://www.rdrop.com/users/hoofj/corner.htm
This list is NOT for AHII, but it should give you a good idea of what corner velocity is all about. Look at the first two columns and column 5. At the CV (column 1) you will have the turn radius shown in column 2, more to the point it will take you X number of seconds as listed in column 5. This is the fastest that you will be able to complete a full 360 degree turn. If you drive your plane faster around a circle your radius will grow and your time to complete the turn will increase. If you drive your plane slower, your radius will decrease but, almost counter-intuitively, your time to complete the turn will increase too.
AGAIN THIS IS NOT DATA FROM AHII
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I've been messing around with a few planes and I can't decide which one to stick to. I love the guns of the 190D9 and p38, I love the stability of the p38, I love the speed and roll rate of the 190D9, I love the climb rate of the 109k, and I love the turn radius of the F4U. I like to BnZ when appropriate but I don't want to only be able to do that. Flying the 190 feels really cool with the insane roll rate and I love how it can be used to get people off your six or at least make them miss a lot. I also like how it can run away fairly easily. The only thing I don't like about it is that it really really sucks in rolling scissors fights, which I tend to get into a lot. My gripe with the p38 is that it's too slow to catch people who decide to run on the deck.
I dunno, what do yall recommend? I guess FLS would be the best person to recommend one since he's seen me fly a little.
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My gripe with the p38 is that it's too slow to catch people who decide to run on the deck.
It all depends on what plane you're chasing.
ack-ack
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I thought slower = better turn?
A turn is just lift around a center point. You don't increase lift by going slower.
If you are above corner speed your turn radius gets bigger because you're above your G limit and would black out from a max turn. Your best turn rate and smallest turn radius are both at corner speed on the edge of blackout.
Any time you are below corner speed you can turn faster and tighter by gaining speed first.
All the aircraft you mentioned are good choices. I can't say that one would suit you better than another.
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I've been messing around with a few planes and I can't decide which one to stick to. I love the guns of the 190D9 and p38, I love the stability of the p38, I love the speed and roll rate of the 190D9, I love the climb rate of the 109k, and I love the turn radius of the F4U. I like to BnZ when appropriate but I don't want to only be able to do that. Flying the 190 feels really cool with the insane roll rate and I love how it can be used to get people off your six or at least make them miss a lot. I also like how it can run away fairly easily. The only thing I don't like about it is that it really really sucks in rolling scissors fights, which I tend to get into a lot. My gripe with the p38 is that it's too slow to catch people who decide to run on the deck.
I dunno, what do yall recommend? I guess FLS would be the best person to recommend one since he's seen me fly a little.
As you play longer and gain experience, you'll find out that the 190's are very capable in rolling scissor fights.
Honestly, I would recommend something that allows you to learn ACMs and work on SA. The planes you listed, F4U, 190, P38, and 109K, aren't the easiest for a novice to pick up right away. They have intricacies that need to be learned or they're easy kills for a skilled opponent.
I'd probably start off with a Spit 8 or Spit 9, or Ki84 if you want to learn how to walk the flaps, and then work on throttle control and the various types of pursuit and ACMs.
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Mir that's good advice but Hoff had stated earlier that he was aware of easier rides and didn't want to fly them. He did his homework and he's flying well for a new guy so I didn't discourage him from starting in a more challenging aircraft.
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Oh, I didn't read where he said that! My apologies!
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It's still good advice Mir. :D
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Oh, I didn't read where he said that! My apologies!
It's ok, thanks for at least trying to help out. I tend to learn pretty quickly and like FLS said, I do my research, but I think it's between the P38, 190D9, and 109K. Like I said, the only thing I don't like about the P38 is that you can't really run from a fight that is going bad and you can't chase down people that are running (which is 90% of the people in MA). A lot of times people will just BnZ one or two times or HO one or two times than simply dive to the deck and run back home.
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Mir knows a lot more about flying the P-38 then I do so if you get a chance you'd be lucky to fly with him.
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It's ok, thanks for at least trying to help out. I tend to learn pretty quickly and like FLS said, I do my research, but I think it's between the P38, 190D9, and 109K. Like I said, the only thing I don't like about the P38 is that you can't really run from a fight that is going bad and you can't chase down people that are running (which is 90% of the people in MA). A lot of times people will just BnZ one or two times or HO one or two times than simply dive to the deck and run back home.
The runners can be frustrating, but only if you allow them to frustrate you. One trick in a P38 is to get them to fight your fight. Play opossum, give up your six, make them turn with you. Use their speed against them.
Another thing, which comes with some time, is learning who you're fighting. What squad is in that area. Some will just run. Some will fight. You'll eventually find that there are a lot of folks who will turn their 51's, 190's, 205's, 47's, etc. with you and give you a really good fight, and not just resort to BnZ tactics.
Unfortunately, it sounds like you've been experiencing the runners more than the fighters, and you have two options: get into a plane that can chase them down or find another area and see if you'll get some people looking to fight.
The P38 is certainly no dragster, so getting out of trouble can be tough, but it's got some top end once moving.
Btw, besides those planes you listed, have you tried the 190A5? That's a really fun plane to fight and get down and dirty in.
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People keep saying that the p38 is a good bnz but I don't see how, it has no boom since it compresses so fast. Anyone willing to set up a time to help me out? Oh and here's another film, obviously my gunnery sucks, but I wanna know how I could've survived at the end.
Clicky (http://www.mediafire.com/?br15rc50ddahddf)
Wow you catch on quick. You already know what a BnZ is and know what compressing is I certainly had no idea of what either BnZ or TnB was when I first started.
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The runners can be frustrating, but only if you allow them to frustrate you. One trick in a P38 is to get them to fight your fight. Play opossum, give up your six, make them turn with you. Use their speed against them.
Another thing, which comes with some time, is learning who you're fighting. What squad is in that area. Some will just run. Some will fight. You'll eventually find that there are a lot of folks who will turn their 51's, 190's, 205's, 47's, etc. with you and give you a really good fight, and not just resort to BnZ tactics.
Unfortunately, it sounds like you've been experiencing the runners more than the fighters, and you have two options: get into a plane that can chase them down or find another area and see if you'll get some people looking to fight.
The P38 is certainly no dragster, so getting out of trouble can be tough, but it's got some top end once moving.
Btw, besides those planes you listed, have you tried the 190A5? That's a really fun plane to fight and get down and dirty in.
What does the 190A5 do well? Looking at the stats it seems like it's very similar to the P38 and inferior to the 109K in every way.
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The A5 is fast, has good guns, is nimble, rolls incredibly well, can turn decently, and in the right hands, can put up a nice fight versus much better turn fighters.
I think one problem may be that you're comparing performance statistics on a webpage as a method to determine how the AH2 planes can fight. There's much more than what the charts state when it comes to the fighting.
For example, the P38 and A5 are really nothing alike, even if stats say so. Sure, they can be flown in a similar manner, especially at medium to faster speeds, but slow, they're really different in how they handle.
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I'm noticing that I can land 2-3 kill missions regularly with the 190D, but very rarely will I even get 2 kills, much less land them in the P38. Being able to do very quick scissors in the 190D makes it incredibly hard for people to kill me if I mess up. Plus I can run away and chase down runners. In the P38 if I mess up, I'm dead, it rolls like a boat and isn't fast enough to run away. I dunno, I also seem to have better gunnery in the 190D and it seems to be way more lethal. I really want to fly the P38 but I suck so bad at it that it makes me angry and switch planes or just quit the game altogether and go do something else.
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I tried out the mossie and holy crap I love the guns. They're like the P38 but things actually die instead of just get plinked. What are the advantages/disadvantages of the mossie compared to the P38?