Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: BaldEagl on April 02, 2011, 12:27:37 PM
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Why so many posts on hordeing and smash and grab tactics? It really only makes sense.
If 10 players fly five minutes to get to a base to try and capture it, as soon as one is shot down, there are only nine players remaining for the next five minutes. If a single defender gets shot down he can re-up immediately, so a 10 man defense will quickly take the numerical advantage. That means the attackers will want to come with a numbers advantage.
The actual number can't be easily determined. The attackers need to maintain equal or greater numbers for a five minute period adjusted for losses unless they're all superior pilots; but we know that these types of missions don't draw that type of pilot so the numeric advantage has to go even higher. On the other hand the defensive players often are superior pilots compounding the effect. How many "I love to fight he hoardes for easy kills" posts do you read on these boards?
Suddenly your 10 man mission needs to be 20 or 30 to account for both flight time and relative skill on both sides of the confrontation. As a side note it's no wonder there are mega-squads.
Those who complain about hordeing/smash and grab often cite that they can't organize enough defenders soon enough. The base starts to blink 12.5 miles out for the attackers. If one pilots ups against a ten man mission the moment radar is broken and both he and the attackers can maintain 350 mph that means 11.7 miles will be traversed or that the defender will meet the horde about halfway between the base and the edge of the radar ring. This doesn't account for climbing but we know many of these missions are low level, otherwise you'd have had ample warning by dar bar.
Now, if our stalwart superior single defender gets two kills before he's swarmed, two more defenders up while he's in the initial fight and he re-ups immediately after towering they'll meet the remaining eight attackers before they ever reach the field. If each of these three defenders gets two kills then dies the mission is a bust. 1:3 odds take out the mission in this example.
Of course these first defenders buy time. As we know, as the dar bars grow more people are attracted; more defenders and more attackers but it only took one guy to start the defense. By that figuring only three players could provide a meaningful start to a defense against most hordes.
I think the real problem is no one's willing to up and fly into the horde because they're too worried about their score.
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You have to admit most players aren't twirps who sit in the tower all
day waiting for a base to flash. Most probably won't notice a base
start blinking until it's too late if they're caught up in a fight and nobody
reports it.
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ever think people are getting tired of defending hordes, it does get old
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Even if the defender spawns on the runway at the moment of radar warning, he still has to take off and build speed (unless you know of some insta-350mph bot). NOE smash and grabs can be very near the base by the time the first defender gets airborne. I don't even bother trying to up in such cases. Not for fear of score, but simply handing out a free kill to one lucky tard out of the whole bunch is only rewarding him to do it again.
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You have to admit most players aren't twirps who sit in the tower all
day waiting for a base to flash. Most probably won't notice a base
start blinking until it's too late if they're caught up in a fight and nobody
reports it.
I think a very high percentage are reported on country. I never sit in the tower waiting but I will bail if I'm not in a fight to defend, but that goes back to what BE said about some people caring about their score.
ever think people are getting tired of defending hordes, it does get old
Ever think people get tired of reading whines about it? I personally think the "whine and cry" is more prevalent on these boards than the "smash and grab" is in the MA.
Bottom line is;
IF YOU AIN'T HAVING FUN IN THIS GAME IT'S YOUR FAULT
:cheers:
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The arithmetic is way more variable than that.. It assumes the attack group is low alt. Assumes there's one defender, assumes he/they get kills or get swarmed quickly; the timing actually varies. Assumes that little fight doesn't carry on for a while, maybe even in a stalemate. Assumes more defenders show up proportionate to dar bar.. That's really not always the case. Most often the opposite happens when the show of force (as far as you can read from clipboard map) is convincing enough, people recognize the base as a write-off and don't bother.
All of these are arguably nit picks but altogether you get way more variability and can't conclusively say that it's mostly about score. And possibly that in more than a few cases it's not worthwhile to up - like one of the Arabian Knights says in another active thread on this topic, it's no real feat to take a base by brute force. That skill you admit as a factor for defenders can also exist in the attackers. A properly done attack (air superiority fighters paired up as wingmen, ground attackers flying in correct formation IE not in single file so that ack is evenly distributed, etc etc) should almost guarantee that an equal-sized defense that scrambles (realistically, not everyone's permanently in tower waiting for these attacks) a little after the radar alert will be beat because of that advantage: the same way a "mere" two squaddies dead immediately after merge in a 10v10 squad match makes for a major change in odds which just keeps on compounding from then on.
Suddenly your 10 man mission needs to be 20 or 30 to account for both flight time and relative skill
Why not 50 or 70 instead of 20-30? There's a "fun" sweet spot that's muted to nothing, the more you overwhelm with numbers. Both for the defenders (bee swarm from hell effect) and for attackers (over the shoulder shooting saturation). This sweet spot is very low on the "Swarmers" priorities. Vulgarly put, that's "hording". It's the "War" end of the game spectrum. The game is meant to be fun. But AH isn't just a game but a competitive game. So it allows some unfairness (if you have the skill and/or craftiness to find and exploit potential unfair advantage IE tactics and/or strategy) which moves it towards "war".
The un-fun ness of smash and grab has two things (just to pick two) going on:
There's not really any long term memory to countries, unless they organize. You'll have the organized side with a strategic plan, whereas the unorganized side is totally reactive IE all tactics. The problem is you can't reasonably expect a side to spontaneously organize against the side that first initiated organized combat, not unless that "reactive" side is made of players who know each other well enough and work together naturally enough - the optimal example is a squad.
Next, there's a minimized leeway allowed to the defenders that's one of the fundamental factors in how fun a game (any game) is. An extremely un-fun kind of game is the twitchy FPS games like Counter Strike or Modern Warfare where you have literally fractions of a second to react and "do the right thing" so that you're fighting and not dying. So that you're actually countering the attack IE playing the game rather than being sent to tower before you can even finish your first ACM. In those knife-edge FPS games you basically have no real depth and breadth of interaction with the player you're playing against.
Of course an uncompromising plan for success will deny any and all possible useful reaction to "the enemy", and that's what I mean by "war". That's not about having fun first but about winning first. Winning doesn't require at all that the enemy have any fun.
If anyone has played the old PS1 game "Bushido Blade", they'll see the analogy with how you couldn't win that game by just smash and grabbing the opponent and cleaving his melon in two right off the bat. You have to earn the victory by actually facing the opponent. No victory without peril. The fun of a peril-less victory in AH is something you can get from any offline or coop-vs-AI game. A genuine winning strategic and tactical plan in AH will effectively remove and deny the opponent players from the equation.
And in that case, why bother playing a multiplayer game?
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Has nothing to do with score. I will up from a semi-capped or even capped feild occasionaly. Knowing I will have an entire airforce chasing me gives freindlies/squaddies time to even up the odds.
I've chased cons that shown extreme timid behavoir a full sector and even if they try to drag me through their ack, the one or two times you do manage to get them makes it all worth it.
Anyone who says that hordes start fights and create interaction within players is just blowing it out their A**. All too many times when there is just a tiny bit of sign of even less than average defense, the attackers (especially the 10 star generals that started the gaggle) pack up their bags and move on to a more enticing less defended target. More often than not, you will see them use this as a tactic to plan their next attack. If thats not a ball-less girly way to start fights, then I dont know what is.
20 newbs getting together because they havent honed their skills yet and want some fun doesnt bother me. Its the pied piepers that have been here years that only use the new guys as cannon fodder to achieve their own goals that I get a kick out of.
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Defense vs the horde can take many forms. It still takes TIME to take those bases. How many guys have to up to start denying troops or ord to the horde? How many times do we see a couple of 262s come in to hunt goons? I've lost count of how many times I've seen one set of buffs take out a CV and end that horde.
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Busting up a "horde" is fun.
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Take the same 10 guys, put 3 in buffs, 2 as heavy fighters, 4 light fighters, and 1 in a goon.
Climb to alt, 10k atleast. Use a good approach to carpet bomb town, one pass should be enough to get a white flag even if they are newbies. Two hvy fighters drop the VH, and become low cap harassing those that up. The 4 light fighters are high cap to cover the goon. Once you have a white flag high cap drops to push the defenders back. If they get them back enough goon drops in and drops troops.
Coming in high increases the time needed for the defenders to get high enough to be effective, giving more time to get the town and VH down. The mission can still be a quick grab as long as everyone does their part of the mission. Will it be the same walk in the park the "smash and grab" mission are now, some times, but those other times it will have the challenge a "game" is suppose to have.
If you have 20-30 guys, do two bases, make the defenders choose. Sure maybe you'll only get one capture, but is that the end of the world? I don't think so.
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Take the same 10 guys, put 3 in buffs, 2 as heavy fighters, 4 light fighters, and 1 in a goon.
Climb to alt, 10k atleast. Use a good approach to carpet bomb town, one pass should be enough to get a white flag even if they are newbies. Two hvy fighters drop the VH, and become low cap harassing those that up. The 4 light fighters are high cap to cover the goon. Once you have a white flag high cap drops to push the defenders back. If they get them back enough goon drops in and drops troops.
Coming in high increases the time needed for the defenders to get high enough to be effective, giving more time to get the town and VH down. The mission can still be a quick grab as long as everyone does their part of the mission. Will it be the same walk in the park the "smash and grab" mission are now, some times, but those other times it will have the challenge a "game" is suppose to have.
If you have 20-30 guys, do two bases, make the defenders choose. Sure maybe you'll only get one capture, but is that the end of the world? I don't think so.
Please go run that mission 10 times and please come back and tell us your sucess ratio.
Thanks!
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Please go run that mission 10 times and please come back and tell us your sucess ratio.
Thanks!
Who says it has to work ALL the time? Do they cut off one of you b@lls if you don't take a base? I"m sure it would work twice as good as coming in low with the same 10 guys BE mentioned. Sure it's great to "win da warz!", but I always thought it was more fun to earn the win than it is to just roll over a base with a horde.
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Who says it has to work ALL the time? Do they cut off one of you b@lls if you don't take a base? I"m sure it would work twice as good as coming in low with the same 10 guys BE mentioned. Sure it's great to "win da warz!", but I always thought it was more fun to earn the win than it is to just roll over a base with a horde.
You will never "get it", will you. Sad
Fugi...please put this in your sig:
"All of you are expected to fly slow, straight, do not evade so it's uber-easy for me to kill you, signed Fugitive".
PS, you are still here? I thought you were running missions.
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Get what ROX? I have run thousands of missions here and in AWI-III. I know how they run. I understand tactics, strengths and weaknesses, miss direction, porking and yes even the strat system.
All I've ever said is that I want a fight. Diving head long into a horde can only keep you occupied a short while. If people were posting missions with multiple wings, giving instruction/orders that were more than "bomb anything thats up then vulch until the goon gets in" I'd join mission after mission with out a problem, and I'm sure other would too.
Most of todays players don't have the skill to pull off a 10 player mission any more. So to substitute for skill they add numbers. With the numbers they now run in most also say "why learn anything else, this works". So game play has become less about skill and more about numbers.
But hey, I'm ok with that. I've been doing this for over a dozen years. I'll hang around and play the way everyone else wants me to play and learn to have fun with it that way.
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Please go run that mission 10 times and please come back and tell us your sucess ratio.
Thanks!
I would guarantee 100% success ratio...of having fun.
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Just FYI I wasn't advocating hordes or smash and grab. Heck, I'm in a one man squad and fly alone all the time. I was just trying to point out that it's so easy to understand why complain about it over and over. I also know the dynamics can be much more complicated but I painted a simple scenario just to make my point.
I did omit one other thing in the defenders favor and that's that the attackers are coming in heavy. Most times almost all of them making it hard to defend themselves and still get enough ord to target.
Another thing is that once that initial surge is broken then you get the conga line attack which is even easier to defend against. Really, the attackers only have the initial surge in their favor. After that everything favors the defense assuming there is one.
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Just FYI I wasn't advocating hordes or smash and grab. Heck, I'm in a one man squad and fly alone all the time. I was just trying to point out that it's so easy to understand why complain about it over and over. I also know the dynamics can be much more complicated but I painted a simple scenario just to make my point.
I did omit one other thing in the defenders favor and that's that the attackers are coming in heavy. Most times almost all of them making it hard to defend themselves and still get enough ord to target.
Another thing is that once that initial surge is broken then you get the conga line attack which is even easier to defend against. Really, the attackers only have the initial surge in their favor. After that everything favors the defense assuming there is one.
but see they dont want to defend, they wanna furball. thats all they wanna do them complain when they cant furball. and threaten HTC that they will quit if they dont get their way.
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Imagine no bases just spawn zones dumping you to the area least populated. If you took away all the capture,and brought it down to equal sided dogfights. Im thinking few would play. The DA is pretty much that and compared to the ma its thinly populated.
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Imagine no bases just spawn zones dumping you to the area least populated. If you took away all the capture,and brought it down to equal sided dogfights. Im thinking few would play. The DA is pretty much that and compared to the ma its thinly populated.
and sadly thats true. but HTC could do more if people werent focused on dogfighting and more focused on winning the war. we would have more use of stategic bombing raids, more people trying to defend and hopefully night time and night fighters. but sadly since the majority only wanna dogfight and nothing more, that hampers ideas for growing in customer base of those who would play to wanna win not dogfight furball 24/7
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Take the same 10 guys, put 3 in buffs, 2 as heavy fighters, 4 light fighters, and 1 in a goon.
Climb to alt, 10k atleast. Use a good approach to carpet bomb town, one pass should be enough to get a white flag even if they are newbies. Two hvy fighters drop the VH, and become low cap harassing those that up. The 4 light fighters are high cap to cover the goon. Once you have a white flag high cap drops to push the defenders back. If they get them back enough goon drops in and drops troops.
Coming in high increases the time needed for the defenders to get high enough to be effective, giving more time to get the town and VH down. The mission can still be a quick grab as long as everyone does their part of the mission. Will it be the same walk in the park the "smash and grab" mission are now, some times, but those other times it will have the challenge a "game" is suppose to have.
If you have 20-30 guys, do two bases, make the defenders choose. Sure maybe you'll only get one capture, but is that the end of the world? I don't think so.
you have 3 buffs...put two on the field (line them up to drop fh and vh on first pass, bh on second pass.). Heavy fighters clean town ack after first bomb run. Light fighters break off bombers to clean air of bandits.
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So I got to be the victim of a Pigs on the Wing smash and grab last night. I didn't realize they were one of those squads. Unfortunately I was the only one defending. I tried two or three times in a fighter, flying from a nearby base on at least one try, three times in field guns and twice in GV's. Unfortunately in GV's I had to spawn in as they had dutifully dropped the VH.
After they grabbed the (other than me) undefended base they all disappeared. Then, a little later while I was defending a Vbase alone, a horde of Bish took the base back while no one was there to defend it.
Actually, I wish I'd never started this thread. It was all pretty lame gameplay by both sides.
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It is how the game is played...
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Busting up a "horde" is fun.
The word "busting" infers you were successful in "winning" against said horde. With this I think all can agree, I think most would agree that getting your head beat in over and over again by the horde is somewhat less fun! <-- this is why so few challenge the horde in the 1st place!
JUGgler
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and sadly thats true. but HTC could do more if people werent focused on dogfighting and more focused on winning the war. we would have more use of stategic bombing raids, more people trying to defend and hopefully night time and night fighters. but sadly since the majority only wanna dogfight and nothing more, that hampers ideas for growing in customer base of those who would play to wanna win not dogfight furball 24/7
Win what? Does HTC offer prizes now? If the strats and stuff worked like you say you'd like, there would be less fans than if it were only a 24/7 furball. I too would like to see big bomb groups intercepted at hi alt. Not many like to do it as the norm though. Somewhere between the furball and the nothing lies the MA.
Hey, its what we've got.
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Win what? Does HTC offer prizes now?
I want a hat... I will settle for a T-shirt though...
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Win what? Does HTC offer prizes now? If the strats and stuff worked like you say you'd like, there would be less fans than if it were only a 24/7 furball. I too would like to see big bomb groups intercepted at hi alt. Not many like to do it as the norm though. Somewhere between the furball and the nothing lies the MA.
Hey, its what we've got.
and again. htc could do more for AH. theres a whole huge and i mean HUGE player base out there that wanna play a game to win. and the player base outnumbers those who only wanna play game to get kills. thats all furballing is its players upping just to get as many kills as they can. what does that offer to thsoe who wanna play a game to win and win with teamwork.
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I would guarantee 100% success ratio...of having fun.
^THIS^
But killnu, there are some who find the fight to not be fun.... they don't want a fight, only the capture, and any sign of defenders ruins their fun.
100% guaranteed success in the capture and complete levelling of the base to prevent a fight is their goal. Any significant defence pretty much dooms their mission because they haven't the ability to overcome opposition from base defenders. For them, fight = ruined fun.
You and I? fight = fun.
Horders/toolshedders/"Mission gods"? Not so much.
Not that this is a bad thing.... it's their $15, there's plenty of room on the map for everyone, and everyone can play their own way.
I love the horde... it makes for good targets and many times easy kills.
And I love base taking... I just prefer it done when the hangers are left up so we actually have to work for it.
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and again. htc could do more for AH. theres a whole huge and i mean HUGE player base out there that wanna play a game to win. and the player base outnumbers those who only wanna play game to get kills. thats all furballing is its players upping just to get as many kills as they can. what does that offer to thsoe who wanna play a game to win and win with teamwork.
they should go play mario brothers
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^THIS^
But killnu, there are some who find the fight to not be fun.... they don't want a fight, only the capture, and any sign of defenders ruins their fun.
100% guaranteed success in the capture and complete levelling of the base to prevent a fight is their goal. Any significant defence pretty much dooms their mission because they haven't the ability to overcome opposition from base defenders. For them, fight = ruined fun.
You and I? fight = fun.
Horders/toolshedders/"Mission gods"? Not so much.
Not that this is a bad thing.... it's their $15, there's plenty of room on the map for everyone, and everyone can play their own way.
I love the horde... it makes for good targets and many times easy kills.
And I love base taking... I just prefer it done when the hangers are left up so we actually have to work for it.
actually reaper i love the challenge of defenders and seeing people actually come up and stop us instead of focusing on their furball.
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actually reaper i love the challenge of defenders and seeing people actually come up and stop us instead of focusing on their furball.
Then talk to your squad and maybe beg them to not drop every hanger as soon as y'all get there..... :aok
<---- doesn't think you're gonna be listened to.
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Then talk to your squad and maybe beg them to not drop every hanger as soon as y'all get there..... :aok
<---- doesn't think you're gonna be listened to.
why should we? i love hearing complaints about it. we want the win. and if you guys werent so focused on furballing maybe you would have seen the big long red dar bar a whole sector away and been able to up to stop us "no skilled" horders. if your not willing to watch and react to an attack then you dont dont deserve to come up after we are already there. and for the reacord we have taken bases without dropping hangars, and again if you guys werent furballing you would have been able to stop it. with that being said you deserve to lose the base.
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why should we? i love hearing complaints about it. we want the win. and if you guys werent so focused on furballing maybe you would have seen the big long red dar bar a whole sector away and been able to up to stop us "no skilled" horders. if your not willing to watch and react to an attack then you dont dont deserve to come up after we are already there. and for the reacord we have taken bases without dropping hangars, and again if you guys werent furballing you would have been able to stop it. with that being said you deserve to lose the base.
:rofl :rofl
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why should we? i love hearing complaints about it. we want the win. and if you guys werent so focused on furballing maybe you would have seen the big long red dar bar a whole sector away and been able to up to stop us "no skilled" horders. if your not willing to watch and react to an attack then you dont dont deserve to come up after we are already there. and for the reacord we have taken bases without dropping hangars, and again if you guys werent furballing you would have been able to stop it. with that being said you deserve to lose the base.
so let me get this straight. We are supposed to wait around until we see a dar bar then we are to up and defend? Man you are something else
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IF YOU AIN'T HAVING FUN IN THIS GAME IT'S YOUR FAULT-redwing7 +1
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so let me get this straight. We are supposed to wait around until we see a dar bar then we are to up and defend? Man you are something else
hey you wanna stop us. come get us then. not my problem if you dont see it.
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hey you wanna stop us. come get us then. not my problem if you dont see it.
lol last month i had 89 vtard kills i think i do a pretty good job
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lol last month i had 89 vtard kills i think i do a pretty good job
thats just sad. i dont get why you take self pride in knowing how many people you shoot down?
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thats just sad. i dont get why you take self pride in knowing how many people you shoot down?
i only pride myself in killing ur squad
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i only pride myself in killing ur squad
Now thats just sad. really i mean what does it matter to me how many time you shoot us down?
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Now thats just sad. really i mean what does it matter to me how many time you shoot us down?
u enjoy ur skilless base taking and ill enjoy kill baby seals
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lol last month i had 89 vtard kills i think i do a pretty good job
I bet you'll get over 100 this month
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u enjoy ur skilless base taking and ill enjoy kill baby seals
yeah skilless. you keep believing that.
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yeah skilless. you keep believing that.
any time u wanna prove me wrong please let me know
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Killing auto ack and hangers is SRS BISNSS!
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Now thats just sad. really i mean what does it matter to me how many time you shoot us down?
I think this is where this all comes unstuck...you want a win the war style play and don't care how many times you have to up...sure you are going to die...which is where the air quake symbolism came into things...I haven't been around for long but I'm pretty sure a win would be to carry out your objective with as little loss as possible...this is why scenarios are nice...you have two lives...and you use them wisely...sure you are going to die sometimes but to just up and smash and smash and smash because you have unlimited lives is just not what most of the longtime players look for...they are here for the style and finesse of battle.... ground air or sea now days.....they aren't being elitist when the go on about what (to some) seems a senseless style...it is just they have more of a respect of what things were.
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why should we? i love hearing complaints about it. we want the win. and if you guys werent so focused on furballing maybe you would have seen the big long red dar bar a whole sector away and been able to up to stop us "no skilled" horders. if your not willing to watch and react to an attack then you dont dont deserve to come up after we are already there. and for the reacord we have taken bases without dropping hangars, and again if you guys werent furballing you would have been able to stop it. with that being said you deserve to lose the base.
You can dignify it all you like, but I'm still not going to respect a herd of lemmings no matter how hard they try.
You can denigrate "furballers" to your heart's delight, but they do have the ability to take bases if they wanted to.
From what little I've seen of the landgrab teamwork fuhrers, the reverse is not true.
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You can dignify it all you like, but I'm still not going to respect a herd of lemmings no matter how hard they try.
You can denigrate "furballers" to your heart's delight, but they do have the ability to take bases if they wanted to.
From what little I've seen of the landgrab teamwork fuhrers, the reverse is not true.
so you would much rather have the same map playing for months on end? i dont care if you respect me or not. its dosnt matter to me. i just see its boring to just play a game to furball.
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so you would much rather have the same map playing for months on end? i dont care if you respect me or not. its dosnt matter to me. i just see its boring to just play a game to furball.
lol and flying in a huge horde and not getting any kills other then a field ack or a town building is fun?
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lol and flying in a huge horde and not getting any kills other then a field ack or a town building is fun?
yeah it is. winng is better then getting kills.
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so you would much rather have the same map playing for months on end? i dont care if you respect me or not. its dosnt matter to me. i just see its boring to just play a game to furball.
Sometimes the rush to win zee war resets the maps which are the most fun.
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yeah it is. winng is better then getting kills.
lol your are hopeless. It's obvious you've never flown into a horde stopped the base take and still was able to land 4+ kills
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WOW :eek: :rofl :rofl :rofl
that's all I can do............. is laugh at you...and you know whats funny is every one knows who im laughing at :rofl
DMGOD and any one else trying to talk sense into these umm...people.........lost cause :bhead
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lol your are hopeless. It's obvious you've never flown into a horde stopped the base take and still was able to land 4+ kills
actually i have. and thats what drew me to the "horde" was because i relize that playing for kills is pointless. when i can play to win and help win for my team. you on the other hand have no idea what teamwork is nor do you know what is feels like to be apart of a team. when you figure that out then you can critizise me about how i play. you downplay teamwork as skilles and easy when in fact it is not easy. it is very complicated, and challenging.
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WOW :eek: :rofl :rofl :rofl
that's all I can do............. is laugh at you...and you know whats funny is every one knows who im laughing at :rofl
DMGOD and any one else trying to talk sense into these umm...people.........lost cause :bhead
please don't judge the whole squad on account of one persons actions.
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so you would much rather have the same map playing for months on end? i dont care if you respect me or not. its dosnt matter to me. i just see its boring to just play a game to furball.
LOL, there was a time, that doesn't seem so long ago, that one map was all there was for us. I still couldn't tell you what map I'm flying on in AH, as one cartoon base looks like another.
What difference does the map really make to you? Do you spend a lot of time looking at the scenery? :)
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actually i have. and thats what drew me to the "horde" was because i relize that playing for kills is pointless. when i can play to win and help win for my team. you on the other hand have no idea what teamwork is nor do you know what is feels like to be apart of a team. when you figure that out then you can critizise me about how i play. you downplay teamwork as skilles and easy when in fact it is not easy. it is very complicated, and challenging.
lol taking down a town with 20+ guys isnt difficult nor is it complicated in any manor ESPECIALLY when u drop all the hangers at the field. Teamwork... lol i have 20 guys in my squad and usually no more then 5 on at any given time and we have no problem rolling bases if or when we chose to.
Honestly there isnt any talking to you. You swear you know it all enjoy living ur life that way it's going to be filled with many disappointments
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lol taking down a town with 20+ guys isnt difficult nor is it complicated in any manor ESPECIALLY when u drop all the hangers at the field. Teamwork... lol i have 20 guys in my squad and usually no more then 5 on at any given time and we have no problem rolling bases if or when we chose to.
Honestly there isnt any talking to you. You swear you know it all enjoy living ur life that way it's going to be filled with many disappointments
really are they undefended bases aswell? and yes i do know alot about teamwork. it is easy to say someone has no skill when your side loses. and trooper no ones judging the squad. all the whiners are, are just losers who cant seem to win, and they label us skilless and say the we attack undefended bases.
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What difference does the map really make to you?
I like the maps that have airfields that are as close together as possible. The fights tend to be at lower altitudes, which means less time spent climbing out. I also like maps that promote CV vs Airfield fights.
Unfortunately, there is always a war winner ready to bomb the CV down, or worse, hide all of the CVs in some useless corner.
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really are they undefended bases aswell? and yes i do know alot about teamwork. it is easy to say someone has no skill when your side loses. and trooper no ones judging the squad. all the whiners are, are just losers who cant seem to win, and they label us skilless and say the we attack undefended bases.
Some...well alot of them can win. Alot of them are skilled. Everyone just likes to play their own way. No need to bash someone about how they fly, as long as their having fun.
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please don't judge the whole squad on account of one persons actions.
now this is a man that deserves respect :salute
so much is written in those few words again :salute
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yeah it is. winng is better then getting kills.
you don't realize that every kill is a win, do you?
a kill in the game means there was at least two actual people were involved, and one of them lost.
a base switching hands only means an object on a terrain died (map room). no player has to get killed. If there is no player to be killed, why not just take bases offline and fight against your computer?
don't get me wrong, base taking gives people something to do, stirs things up usually, its great! but don't think for a minute that taking bases and resetting maps is the only objective in the game.
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really are they undefended bases aswell? and yes i do know alot about teamwork. it is easy to say someone has no skill when your side loses. and trooper no ones judging the squad. all the whiners are, are just losers who cant seem to win, and they label us skilless and say the we attack undefended bases.
sorry u must have misunderstood me. I have not labeled your squad skilles I labeled YOU (vWild949) skilless. The Vguys have a couple very good sticks (you aren't one of them) also have some from what I consider to be stand up guys ( you aren't one of them). Do I agree with their tactics no I don't but do I respect them for what the do yes, the difference between them and you is very simple they acknowledge what they do and they don't make up bs excuses for why they do it. Unlike you who even they don't seem to care too much for
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For me the furball results when players just wanna brawl. The real game, my favorite part of the game isnt the number of kills at all. Its the quality fights you had, win or lose. I've landed 6 and been like "Eh".... and I've crawled back to base with one kill, exhausted and grinnin.
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For me the furball results when players just wanna brawl. The real game, my favorite part of the game isnt the number of kills at all. Its the quality fights you had, win or lose. I've landed 6 and been like "Eh".... and I've crawled back to base with one kill, exhausted and grinnin.
no you must be lying :furious its not possible to win with out the "war".....
ok sarcasm over.....this is exactly what I am talking about :aok
enough of this im done....see ya in the skies..
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What difference does the map really make to you? Do you spend a lot of time looking at the scenery? :)
Maps make a big difference. It's hard to play carrier wars on a map without water. VBase layout and airfield proximity make a difference. Small maps vs big maps influence how high buffs will be flying. Flat terrain, mountains and canyons change the fights. The overall map layout along with terrain features influence where fights will occur. Maps make a big difference to me.
And yes, sometimes I even spend some time looking at the scenery.
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Maps make a big difference. It's hard to play carrier wars on a map without water. VBase layout and airfield proximity make a difference. Small maps vs big maps influence how high buffs will be flying. Flat terrain, mountains and canyons change the fights. The overall map layout along with terrain features influence where fights will occur. Maps make a big difference to me.
And yes, sometimes I even spend some time looking at the scenery.
I'm sure that's true, but I gotta believe you don't play the game to change the maps :)
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I'm sure that's true, but I gotta believe you don't play the game to change the maps :)
Nope. But I do have my favorite and least favorite maps.
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sorry u must have misunderstood me. I have not labeled your squad skilles I labeled YOU (vWild949) skilless. The Vguys have a couple very good sticks (you aren't one of them) also have some from what I consider to be stand up guys ( you aren't one of them). Do I agree with their tactics no I don't but do I respect them for what the do yes, the difference between them and you is very simple they acknowledge what they do and they don't make up bs excuses for why they do it. Unlike you who even they don't seem to care too much for
frankly i dont care what you think or say about me. it dosnt affect me in the slightest, and i have plenty of skill in a dogfight. why i choose not to dogfight is because it POINTLESS to me. sure back in my days of playing F-16 MRF and F-18 hornet. i used to love getting kills and shooting someone down. but thats boring to me now. i dont get a thrill out of turning and diving and weaving and split second moments. thats why when i started playing this game i flew bombers, i didnt care much for the dogfight anymore it was pointless to me. one guys shooting at the other whoop dee doo.
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frankly i dont care what you think or say about me. it dosnt affect me in the slightest, and i have plenty of skill in a dogfight. why i choose not to dogfight is because it POINTLESS to me. sure back in my days of playing F-16 MRF and F-18 hornet. i used to love getting kills and shooting someone down. but thats boring to me now. i dont get a thrill out of turning and diving and weaving and split second moments. thats why when i started playing this game i flew bombers, i didnt care much for the dogfight anymore it was pointless to me. one guys shooting at the other whoop dee doo.
LOL you did note the name of the game when you signed up right? Aces High. I don't think it meant it was a different type of solitaire game :)
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LOL you did note the name of the game when you signed up right? Aces High. I don't think it meant it was a different type of solitaire game :)
yes and if it was all about dogfighting there wouldnt be GV or ships and bombers. or the ability to win.
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please don't judge the whole squad on account of one persons actions.
I've run into a couple of V guys who put up a fight. The rest invariably run back to the swarm like speedy gonzales.
and again. htc could do more for AH. theres a whole huge and i mean HUGE player base out there that wanna play a game to win. and the player base outnumbers those who only wanna play game to get kills. thats all furballing is its players upping just to get as many kills as they can. what does that offer to thsoe who wanna play a game to win and win with teamwork.
Double standard argument.
what does [pure toolsheding] offer to thsoe who wanna play a game to win and win with [furballing].
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i think the people who complain about 'hordeing' have simply never played any other 'massively' online games
it's always gonna happen
for some people it's the whole reason to play a game like this
to each their own i guess
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yes and if it was all about dogfighting there wouldnt be GV or ships and bombers. or the ability to win.
We had a meeting a long time ago and decided we needed those things in the game to boost membership. We called it Project:Target
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We had a meeting a long time ago and decided we needed those things in the game to boost membership. We called it Project:Target
then why do people complain when we play the strategic aspect of AH? it is common military strategy to use numbers to your advantage. the russian did it during the war. do you call them skilless for doing that i'd think not. the same thing for the US navy in WW2 they would gang up of zekes 2 or 3 to 1 to take down 1 zeke. numbers are apart of military strategy, and it works just aswell in this War Game. i say to those who complain about it. play games like blitzkrieg or axis and allies for a while then tell me that using numbers is being skilless.
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Because this is a game, NOT WAR!
You go out to the playground and they are putting together a "pick-up" game of football. They choose up sides and one time has 20 players and the other only gets 6. They ONLY want to play with their friends. Would the game be fun?
If you were on the 20 player team sure you would win, but was it really fun?
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Its frowned upon for a few reasons.
Some guys dont have the time to spend flying to 30k and rather spend the time they have in as much fighting as possible.
"Realism" in here is moot, nobody dies.
Numbers are a huge turnoff for many. Winning fights in a 6 on 1, or capturing a town with 30 people thats defended by 5 isnt very rewarding. If it is to you, then hey, its your 15 bucks. Just expect others to call you on it.
The game is built around the dogfight. Everything else is to provide players who want to be part of it,but dont dogfight, have something else thats fun to do. The map is simply the stage. It means nothing really. They reset and the fight continues.
You can get more perks in a hour or so, than a map victory rewards you with.
Events and FSO provide all the "realism" I need in the game. I suggest checking them out. Im the first guy into a bad situation in the MA, but come FSO I try to fly careful since you only have 1 life. Its great, but I wouldnt want it to be that way all the time in an MA.
Dont take the game so seriously. Die alot and learn why. Get better at dogfighting and once you do, everything else pales in comparision.
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Fact: I know of unhappiness in the V's ranks. Squad implosion coming soon to an arena near you. :aok
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Because this is a game, NOT WAR!
You go out to the playground and they are putting together a "pick-up" game of football. They choose up sides and one time has 20 players and the other only gets 6. They ONLY want to play with their friends. Would the game be fun?
If you were on the 20 player team sure you would win, but was it really fun?
I keep seeing people state that this game is not a "war". By Webster's definition it is.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/war (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/war)
Definition of WAR
1
a (1) : a state of usually open and declared armed hostile conflict between states or nations (2) : a period of such armed conflict (3) : state of war b : the art or science of warfare c (1) obsolete : weapons and equipment for war (2) archaic : soldiers armed and equipped for war
2
a : a state of hostility, conflict, or antagonism b : a struggle or competition between opposing forces or for a particular end <a class war> <a war against disease>
Is there real blood, loss of real life, real injuries, real loss of property, real horrors, no there isn't. It is a state of conflict within a game and it can be defined as a war between the opposing sides.
No one should try to compare this game to a real life war or conflict, but the point remains by definition this game is a war between sides.
My Opinion, based on Websters Definition.
Fred
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Compare with definition of a sport, or... game.
Sport
A sport is an organized, competitive, entertaining, and skillful activity requiring commitment, strategy, and fair play, in which a winner can be defined by objective means. It is governed by a set of rules or customs. Activities such as card games and board games, are classified as "mind sports" and some are recognized as Olympic sports, requiring primarily mental skills and mental physical involvement. Non-competitive activities, for example as jogging or playing catch are usually classified as forms of recreation.
[...]
Records are kept and updated for most sports at the highest levels, while failures and accomplishments are widely announced in sport news. Sports are most often played just for fun or for the simple fact that people need exercise to stay in good physical condition. However, professional sport is a major source of entertainment.
While practices may vary, sports participants are expected to display good sportsmanship, and observe standards of conduct such as being respectful of opponents and officials, and congratulating the winner when losing.
Game
# a contest with rules to determine a winner; "you need four people to play this game"
# a single play of a sport or other contest; "the game lasted two hours"
# an amusement or pastime; "they played word games"; "he thought of his painting as a game that filled his empty time"; "his life was all fun and games"
# animal hunted for food or sport
# plot: a secret scheme to do something (especially something underhand or illegal); "they concocted a plot to discredit the governor"; "I saw through his little game from the start"
# your occupation or line of work; "he's in the plumbing game"; "she's in show biz"
# bet on: place a bet on; "Which horse are you backing?"; "I'm betting on the new horse"
# frivolous or trifling behavior; "for actors, memorizing lines is no game"; "for him, life is all fun and games"
# willing to face danger
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Interesting Moot.... I'll take the bait.
Most every sport I have ever participated in had a set of written playing rules with consequences if you violate them. Most every game I have played, other than some on-line games also had rules.
As far as I know Aces High does not have any written rules concerning game play other than don't cheat and some player conduct stuff.
I feel safe to say that Aces High is not a sport, but does fall into the category of a game.
If you are comparing the definition of a sport or game to the definition of a war. I feel pretty good in saying that you can have a war or conflict, in either, by opposing forces. In other words there can be a war between players in a sport or game.
Again Just My Opinion.
Fred
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winng is better then getting kills.
Meh.
Killing = Winning. Duh.
Two guys meet in the air. One dies. The other WINS.
The "base capture" aspect of this game only serves as a means for the herd of prey (hordlings) to move around on the map so that the predators do not become lazy. "Win" the war? Irrelevant and meaningless. It just starts over. And we're back to Winners killing the losers. You think you're "winning" by rolling a field.... you're really LOSING because you just accomplished nothing except to take you one step closer to being back to the beginning..... and still Losing.
Duh.
(http://www.directart.co.uk/mall/images/800s/b0370.jpg)
WINNING
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Meh.
Killing = Winning. Duh.
Two guys meet in the air. One dies. The other WINS.
The "base capture" aspect of this game only serves as a means for the herd of prey (hordlings) to move around on the map so that the predators do not become lazy. "Win" the war? Irrelevant and meaningless. It just starts over. And we're back to Winners killing the losers. You think you're "winning" by rolling a field.... you're really LOSING because you just accomplished nothing except to take you one step closer to being back to the beginning..... and still Losing.
Duh.
(http://www.directart.co.uk/mall/images/800s/b0370.jpg)
WINNING
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
ENTIRE above post = "If you don't play YOUR $15 bucks just like I play MY $15 bucks you are sad and lame"
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Gotta love the BBS... Two of these threads going on at the same time, at the very top of the page, with the same points being argued. :rofl :rofl :rofl
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Gotta love the talk about "skills" :rofl
Just a guess, but I'll bet that alot of guys who talk about "skills" and attacking "undefended" buildings and bases are the same ones who think vulching is cool.
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Interesting Moot.... I'll take the bait.
Most every sport I have ever participated in had a set of written playing rules with consequences if you violate them. Most every game I have played, other than some on-line games also had rules.
As far as I know Aces High does not have any written rules concerning game play other than don't cheat and some player conduct stuff.
I feel safe to say that Aces High is not a sport, but does fall into the category of a game.
If you are comparing the definition of a sport or game to the definition of a war. I feel pretty good in saying that you can have a war or conflict, in either, by opposing forces. In other words there can be a war between players in a sport or game.
Again Just My Opinion.
Fred
Fall into the category of a game? It is a game.
You don't really have war in sports. War isn't fair. Sports are built on rules. Break the rules and you're disqualified. In sports you're expected to play fair and have ... sportsmanship. No such thing in war. There are no rules in war. There are rules in AH, the only special thing about them is that they are set by the game makers IE HTC because players can't be trusted with self-policing. EG friendly fire. Spying is one rule you'll get punished for. Double accounting, same. So why aren't these and any other "exploits" allowed? Because this is a game.
Whereas successful war making depends, hinges on finding a better "exploit" than the other guy. It isn't about fun. These things are borderline hair splitting nuances but.. They're the difference between the reality of war and reality of games. Rules of war apply to games, and sometimes vice versa, but it's playing on words to choose the word "war" like it was a better description of AH than "game".
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Meh.
Killing = Winning. Duh.
Two guys meet in the air. One dies. The other WINS.
The "base capture" aspect of this game only serves as a means for the herd of prey (hordlings) to move around on the map so that the predators do not become lazy. "Win" the war? Irrelevant and meaningless. It just starts over. And we're back to Winners killing the losers. You think you're "winning" by rolling a field.... you're really LOSING because you just accomplished nothing except to take you one step closer to being back to the beginning..... and still Losing.
Duh.
Then by your own infinite wisdom the fight itself is irrelevant and meaningless. Because once someone dies it just starts over...... :lol
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ROX......
Apparently your cranial rectal insertion syndrom doesn't allow you to understand I was merely providing a counterpoint to vWild949's position that only "the war" matters, and that fuballing/"getting kills" is a waste of time.
I've never said anything about not spending your $15 worth however you want to, doing whatever you want to. My point was don't come here and thump your chest about how you and 30 of your buddies are uber because you roll dozens of bases, and that you are the only ones who have it all figured out....
I personally think the game needs all types. I wasn't the one who threw it out there that only the "win the war / land grabbers" composed the real core of AH is "supposed" to be about...
That all being said.... Yes, you are sad and lame. :lol
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Then by your own infinite wisdom
winning or losin's what's irrelevant. How good the fight was is the only difference.
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winning or losin's what's irrelevant. How good the fight was is the only difference.
Truth.
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Fall into the category of a game? It is a game.
You don't really have war in sports. War isn't fair. Sports are built on rules. Break the rules and you're disqualified. In sports you're expected to play fair and have ... sportsmanship. No such thing in war. There are no rules in war. There are rules in AH, the only special thing about them is that they are set by the game makers IE HTC because players can't be trusted with self-policing. EG friendly fire. Spying is one rule you'll get punished for. Double accounting, same. So why aren't these and any other "exploits" allowed? Because this is a game.
Whereas successful war making depends, hinges on finding a better "exploit" than the other guy. It isn't about fun. These things are borderline hair splitting nuances but.. They're the difference between the reality of war and reality of games. Rules of war apply to games, and sometimes vice versa, but it's playing on words to choose the word "war" like it was a better description of AH than "game".
I said I would take the bait and I did, but I guess I am missing your point.
You state that "you don't really have war in sports"
Websters definition 2b is "a struggle or competition between opposing forces or for a particular end"
Not sure what sport you are talking about, but all the team sports I have played were competition between opposing forces. Nothing in the definition of war says it has to be fair.
Why you are trying to make me believe that Aces High is not a sport, I'm not sure. I never said it was. I stated in an earlier post Aces High does not fall into the "sports" category, but I did say by definition you can have a war between sides in sports.
As for the written rules for Aces High. Please post the link to them, I would love to read them. I know of the forum rules and I know how HiTech feels about cheating and spying, which I agree with, but all this came from posts in the forum. I have never seen any written rules concerning game play. So if we have rules as they have in sports, I would like to see them so I can make sure not to violate them.
You then try to explain to me the difference war and reality of games. In an earlier post I stated;
"No one should try to compare this game to a real life war or conflict". Don't know how I could state that clearer.
Then you state "Rules of war apply to games" but in the same post you stated "There are no rules in war." I think I know what you are trying to say here, but it is rather foggy since I have never seen the actual documented rules of this game. I do know by some of HiTech posts what actions he considers not acceptable, but I still have not seen any book or document of rules concerning game play.
The word war can be used to describe the game dynamics of Aces High. On the front page of the website it states "A war rages on the ground and at sea".
Let me see if I can get across what I was trying to say a little differently.
In my first post, if it did not come through clear, is I believe people get all worked up when someone says this game is or is about war. By the definition it is about war and is clearly backed up by Websters definition, and even by the creator on the Aces High web page. I have never and will never state except by definition that this game in any way reflects the real life horrors of war. I am just simply saying there is a cartoon war going on in this cartoon game.
:salute
Getting my post count up with my OPINIONs
Fred
"
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then why do people complain when we play the strategic aspect of AH? it is common military strategy to use numbers to your advantage. the russian did it during the war. do you call them skilless for doing that i'd think not. the same thing for the US navy in WW2 they would gang up of zekes 2 or 3 to 1 to take down 1 zeke. numbers are apart of military strategy, and it works just aswell in this War Game. i say to those who complain about it. play games like blitzkrieg or axis and allies for a while then tell me that using numbers is being skilless.
Actually, I do think that people would tend to call armies that rely on numbers less skilled than those who do not. Boudicca had a mob; Paulinus was skilled.
You may very well accomplish your goals with a mob, but do not expect people to think highly of you for doing it.
Many people claim that they don't care what other people think of them. These boards are damning evidence that many people who claim this are liars.
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Actually, I do think that people would tend to call armies that rely on numbers less skilled than those who do not. Boudicca had a mob; Paulinus was skilled.
You may very well accomplish your goals with a mob, but do not expect people to think highly of you for doing it.
Many people claim that they don't care what other people think of them. These boards are damning evidence that many people who claim this are liars.
dammit, that is sig material. :aok
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I said I would take the bait and I did, but I guess I am missing your point.
...
The word war can be used to describe the game dynamics of Aces High. On the front page of the website it states "A war rages on the ground and at sea".
But that's all Marketing or semantics... Why don't they call sports war? Why aren't steroids and nootropics allowed in sports? Why couldn't Nazi Germany call Time Out? Because it wasn't a war, and the analogy between war and sports or any competition is only that - an analogy. AH is competitive but you don't need to compete to get your money's worth. It's leisure. You play AH to have fun, not even for any reason that's more serious than that. The comparison to war just doesn't hold up except if very narrowly limited to the strategic and tactical gameplay. And then what's left of the war analogy there? There's nothing about that gameplay that's more specific to war than to plain "competition" or "sports".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_sports
What about the most competitive things in AH? Monthly rank competitions (with winners & runner-ups on front page), KOTH type events.. All of these better fit with sports. The scenarios might be the closest and only part of AH that compare well enough with war (no time to argue that one).
So calling AH "war", as far as the MAs go at least, only persists in discussions about AH because of the coincidence that AH's theme is WWII. The other reason to compare AH with war - that the competitive "cartoon war" gameplay/dynamics is like "waging war" - isn't a good comparison because that cartoon war gameplay doesn't fit any better the word "war" than it does the word "competition". Those dynamics are closer to "game theory" than "war".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_theory
That's not some philosophical abstraction... Because whatever aspect you take to look at AH, it remains just people hooked up to a virtual world by sitting in front of their computer. The only differences from Solitaire are that the rules and possible actions are much more elaborate, and the theme is WWII.
If you have two explanations or definitions for something, and one doesn't fit any better than (eg) a dozen other definitions or descriptions, while the other fits almost perfectly IE clearly better than those dozen other descriptions, the former isn't a "good" description or definition (this is also how you basically recognize that a sci. hypothesis is probably bad - it's not markedly better than any other). The AH cartoon war is only analogous to real war making.
As for the written rules for Aces High. Please post the link to them, I would love to read them. I know of the forum rules and I know how HiTech feels about cheating and spying, which I agree with, but all this came from posts in the forum. I have never seen any written rules concerning game play. So if we have rules as they have in sports, I would like to see them so I can make sure not to violate them.
The rules of AH are rigged as far as HTC can manage (http://www.hitechcreations.com/HiTech-Creations/Policies/htc-toc.html). Those rules they can't rig (the game's very programming code) they make difficult to break: side switching limit, IP logging for double accounts and free trial duping, text/vox abuse, vulching/killing a dummy account, griefing EG incessantly turning CV when people landing or taking control of CV and sticking it on PT boat spawn or just under shore battery or whatever, etc.
TLDR:
Nobody's seriously "worked up" about people calling AH war. It's just a seriously bad analogy. You could literally just as well call it a game or a competition. And then the whole "unfair" bandwagon of connotations of the word "war" derail all the "anti-multiplayer gameplay" pure strategists.
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But that's all Marketing or semantics...
So the front page of the website does not describe the game, it is only a Marketing ploy?
Why aren't steroids and nootropics allowed in sports?
In some games due to the lack of enforcement they essentially are.
Why don't they call sports war?
Might want to look of the definition of "sport(s)", it may surprise you. Actually I have heard the word "war" used in sports competition.
Why couldn't Nazi Germany call Time Out? Because it wasn't a war, and the analogy between war and sports or any competition is only that - an analogy.
Have no idea, has nothing to do with this discussion. I am talking about the definition of the word "WAR" and how the definition of the word applies to the game dynamics of Aces High.
The comparison to war just doesn't hold up except if very narrowly limited to the strategic and tactical gameplay.
I'm not comparing anything, I just read the definition of the word.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_sports
What about the most competitive things in AH? Monthly rank competitions (with winners & runner-ups on front page), KOTH type events.. All of these better fit with sports.
I have read for years in this forum that score doesn't matter. I guess it really does. Actually it fits better with games not sports.
So calling AH "war", as far as the MAs go at least, only persists in discussions about AH because of the coincidence that AH's theme is WWII.
Has nothing to do with coincidence, it all about the definition.
The other reason to compare AH with war - that the competitive "cartoon war" gameplay/dynamics is like "waging war" - isn't a good comparison because that cartoon war gameplay doesn't fit any better the word "war" than it does the word "competition". Those dynamics are closer to "game theory" than "war".
Might want to reread the definition of the word "war". I give you a hint, the word "competition" is in there.
That's not some philosophical abstraction... Because whatever aspect you take to look at AH, it remains just people hooked up to a virtual world by sitting in front of their computer.
Actually in my opinion it would be more descriptive if you stated
That's not some philosophical abstraction... Because whatever aspect you take to look at AH, it remains just people hooked up to a virtual war world by sitting in front of their computer.
The AH cartoon war is only analogous to real war making.
Who said anything about "real war making"? Wasn't me. Talk about a play on words...
The rules of AH are rigged as far as HTC can manage (http://www.hitechcreations.com/HiTech-Creations/Policies/htc-toc.html). Those rules they can't rig (the game's very programming code) they make difficult to break: side switching limit, IP logging for double accounts and free trial duping, text/vox abuse, vulching/killing a dummy account, griefing EG incessantly turning CV when people landing or taking control of CV and sticking it on PT boat spawn or just under shore battery or whatever, etc.
In the link you posted I see it leads to a "User Agreement" but after reading through it I did not see anything about spying, side switching, second accounts, vulching, killing a dummy account or any of the other stuff. Like I said in an earlier post, I know how HiTech feels about some of this type of game play, and again which I agree with him, but I still have not seen any written rules that specifically state it is not allowed, except for the hacking.
Here I will say it. By definition Aces High can be described as a "War Game".
:salute
Fred
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Yikes. Talk about iterative approach.
So the front page of the website does not describe the game, it is only a Marketing ploy?
In your own words. "Describe the game". It's a game. I think you're never going to understand what I'm saying.
In some games due to the lack of enforcement they essentially are.
Not the point.... "Due to lack of enforcement". Not due to sports encouraging it.
Might want to reread the definition of the word "war". I give you a hint, the word "competition" is in there.
So why not just call AH competition?
Have no idea, has nothing to do with this discussion. I am talking about the definition of the word "WAR" and how the definition of the word applies to the game dynamics of Aces High.
You mean that the things the word war stand for have nothing to do with this discussion? Germany not being able to call time out is due to the things that the word "war" refers to. The Bish/Rook/Knight get a time out e.g. if ENY gets bad enough. How is that a dynamic of "war" rather than a dynamic of "game" or any other fairness-based competition?
I have read for years in this forum that score doesn't matter. I guess it really does. Actually it fits better with games not sports.
Not the point - does it fit better with war than games?
Has nothing to do with coincidence, it all about the definition.
Definition of what, AH? AH is a game by definition. The dynamics of it are only analogous to war, not defined by it. HTC didn't set out to create a war, it set out to create a game. If the game was "defined" by war it wouldn't be designed to be fair. The "crimes and horror" of war are beside the point. The pure strategic/logistic/tactical dynamics in AH are rigged to be fair. By definition they are a game, not a war. You can imitate dynamics from war, EG bounding overwatch tactic for tanks, but it is always within conditions rigged to be fair. So you are not "at war" any more than an athlete is "at war" with his competition. Both you and the athlete are gaming your game's rules, and if you don't you're disqualified. Unlike war-making.
people hooked up to a virtual war world by sitting in front of their computer
What war, ever, was fought with things such as ENY and unlimited lives? It's a game by definition.
Who said anything about "real war making"?
As opposed to what, fake war making? That'd be a "game".
Nobody is "worked up" by people using the word war. It's just a bad analogy because the analogies of AH to war are really analogies to game theory. There is no war in sports. That's just sensationalist press. Competition yes, not war.
but after reading through it I did not see anything about spying, side switching, second accounts, vulching, killing a dummy account or any of the other stuff
See for yourself. Give it a try.
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Yikes. Talk about iterative approach.
Nobody is "worked up" by people using the word war. It's just a bad analogy because the analogies of AH to war are really analogies to game theory. There is no war in sports. That's just sensationalist press.
See for yourself. Give it a try.
"Iterative approach", interesting statement. Not sure what you are talking about. It's simple, I just read the definition to the word "war". Nothing repetitious here except stating how the definitions applies to game play in Aces High.
I guess my use of the words "worked up" may have been out of context. I guess my response to Fugitive statement "Because this is a game, NOT WAR!" should have been, "yes, it is a virtual war". I guess the exclamation point threw me off. Does that make it better?
Now we have the "sensationalist press". Where did that come from? As for war in sports, I don't know about you, but when I was looking into the eyes of that Offensive Tackle as far as I was concerned it was a war. :D
Moot you can twist it any way you want, but in my opinion, I still stand by my statment that Aces High can be described as a War Game. It can also be described as a War Simulation if you so wish. If I sit and think a while, I bet I can think of a few other descriptive names.
Fred
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Edited the above
I'm not twisting anything. I'm sticking to a single POV. IOW the opposite of "twisting".
AH isn't any kind of war. It's a game. Why use one word when another is closer to the thing you're describing? Game, competition, or sports, are all closer to what AH is than "war". A war by definition is not fair. AH does not simulate the unfairness of war. War is by definition and in practice, supposed to be as unfair as possible. AH is supposed to be as fair as possible.
another edit-
Now we have the "sensationalist press". Where did that come from?
"war in sports". That's hyperbole or metaphor like you find mostly in the press. IE likeness, not definition.
As for war in sports, I don't know about you, but when I was looking into the eyes of that Offensive Tackle as far as I was concerned it was a war. :D
Yes but competition as intense as it is, is still a sport ruled by fairness. If that OT drop kicked his cleats into your face he would have been penalized unlike in war. Unlike war the principle is to compete on fair grounds. Whether the other guy is hot blooded or a cold fish.
"Iterative approach", interesting statement. Not sure what you are talking about.
Was trying to make this conversation converge rather than diverge into fractal quoting. No implied barb or insult.. Just mild deadpan comment.
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Edited the above
I'm not twisting anything. I'm sticking to a single POV. IOW the opposite of "twisting".
AH isn't any kind of war. It's a game. Why use one word when another is closer to the thing you're describing? Game, competition, or sports, are all closer to what AH is than "war". A war by definition is not fair. AH does not simulate the unfairness of war. War is by definition and in practice, supposed to be as unfair as possible. AH is supposed to be as fair as possible.
I was getting ready to respond to your edited post, but instead of making you wait since I have to take the wife to a doctors appointment, I'll just make this quick final response.
I have never said Aces High is not a game. I said it can be described as a War Game. Matter of fact that description fits better than just game. Nothing in the definition of the word war does it state where war should be fair or unfair, so whether there are rules or not is irrelevant.
As for the unfairness in Aces High. If if it is so fair, then why all the complaining about hoards, gang banging, vulching, hoing and so forth? There is no need to respond to this sentence. It speaks for itself.
You can call it just a game if you wish, but when I describe this game to my friends I do and will continue to describe it as a "War Game" and/or "War Game Simulation". Just telling my friends that I play a game is not very descriptive.
OK, I'm done, I posted the definition and my opinion so all can read and draw their own conclusions.
This has been a fun debate.
:salute
Fred
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Fact: I know of unhappiness in the V's ranks. Squad implosion coming soon to an arena near you. :aok
Maybe they can form the fifth and sixth wings of your squad. ;)
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Come on Fred... Where in any dictionary do you find a definition that says war is fair? The reason there's so much arguing over "war or game" is because the two are similar, right? And (I'm saying that) one of, if not the, essential difference is that war is unfair. Unlike AH is meant to be.
Complaints are complaints, not objective reference like dictionaries. Gonna respond to rhetorical Q because it doesn't settle the argument as you say it does:
- Hordes are as unfair as ENY is meant to allow them to get. If they had no unfairness to them they wouldn't be regulated
- Gang banging same deal, of course it's unfair. What else would you call 10x Me 163 vs 1x P-40B? Just a smaller scale version of Hordes
- Vulching you can only do if the enemy allows you. You have to either win the fight to the point that you move the fight to their doorstep, or have guys on the other team who don't know any better than to keep rolling there instead of at the next field
- HO is fair.. Nothing forces anyone to HO.
The only truly unfair of the above lot is hording, and that one is only unfair in that you can get caught by surprise. If you don't believe it's unfair, then imagine if a couple of squads like (i dont have much imagination) Muppets or The Few show up full roster and (you can do this with 32 players easily) shut down a small/medium sized map's front. You literally can't get out of your ack without dying within a dozen seconds. Does that seem fair? Cause that's what you'd get.
So yes hordes are unfair. There's more to it of course, EG are they unfair in the big picture? They aren't. But "horde" is an even vaguer word than "war" as used RE: Aces High.
You can call it just a game if you wish, but when I describe this game to my friends I do and will continue to describe it as a "War Game" and/or "War Game Simulation". Just telling my friends that I play a game is not very descriptive.
If the point is to just give someone an idea of what you're talking about, then no argument, of course. But that's a different thing. Calling AH by that stops being correct when you do it in discussion of AH specifics like the one Fugitive was in when you first responded to him.
The word war is clearly wrong as used by many people who pretend that because war was unfair, and because AH's thematically WWII, then AH should be unfair.... For their pet favorite part of the game.
:salute
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Maybe they can form the fifth and sixth wings of your squad. ;)
Would take some serious change in their approach to the game. :aok
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There goes the siren that warns of the air raid,
Then comes the sound of the guns sending flak.
Out for the scramble we've got to get airborne,
Got to get up for the coming attack.
Jump in the cockpit and start up the engines,
Remove all the wheelblocks there's no time to waste.
Gathering speed as we head down the runway,
Got to get airborne before it's too late.
Running, scrambling, fire,
Rolling, turning, diving, going in again.
Running, scrambling, fire, Rolling, turning, diving,
Run, live to fly, fly to live, do or die.
Won't you run, live to fly, fly to live, Aces high!
Move in to fire at the mainstream of bombers,
Let off a sharp burst and then turn away.
Roll over, spin round to come in behind them,
Move to their blindsides and firing again.
Bandits at 8 O'clock move in behind us,
Ten ME-109's out of the sun.
Ascending and turning our spitfires to face them,
Heading straight for them I press down my guns.
Rolling, turning, diving,
Rolling, turning, diving, going in again.
Rolling, turning, diving, Rolling, turning, diving,
Run, live to fly, fly to live, do or die.
Won't you run, live to fly, fly to live, Aces high!!!
:rock
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Come on Fred... Where in any dictionary do you find a definition that says war is fair?
Where did I say this?
Fred
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Isn't this a simulation rather than a game ?
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Where did I say this?
Fred
What is the point of saying that no dictionary includes "unfair" in the description of "War", other than to say that war by definition isn't necessarily unfair?
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What is the point of saying that no dictionary includes "unfair" in the description of "War", other than to say that war by definition isn't necessarily unfair?
I stated that I was done, the only reason I am responding is because you alleged I said something I didn't.
Read what I wrote, but don't try and twist and slant it to say something different. I wrote "Nothing in the definition of the word war does it state where war should be fair or unfair, so whether there are rules or not is irrelevant.".
Don't try and twist it into something I did not say.
Fred
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My bad, I misread it as quoted. No need for lawyerese.
War is unfair. I don't care what some dictionary says. So if you're not done that's the sticking point. Show any evidence that war would ever be fair, in any way that wouldn't put it directly opposite a game like Aces High.
The whole objective of war is to be as unfair as possible. Anyone who leads a war otherwise is doing it wrong.
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ROX......
Apparently your cranial rectal insertion syndrom doesn't allow you to understand I was merely providing a counterpoint to vWild949's position that only "the war" matters, and that fuballing/"getting kills" is a waste of time.
I've never said anything about not spending your $15 worth however you want to, doing whatever you want to. My point was don't come here and thump your chest about how you and 30 of your buddies are uber because you roll dozens of bases, and that you are the only ones who have it all figured out....
I personally think the game needs all types. I wasn't the one who threw it out there that only the "win the war / land grabbers" composed the real core of AH is "supposed" to be about...
That all being said.... Yes, you are sad and lame. :lol
The simple fact that you have ZERO CLUE how I play this game, have never run into me IN GAME to see how I play this game made the above statement so asinine my squaddies who read your asinine comment laughed so loud in my headphones my ears hurt.
If there are those who come to the forums and roll bases and then come to the forums and gloat it's not me. I haven't run a base take mission (due to health problems) in years. I DO respect others right to play their $15 bucks how they choose to and that goes for every current sub paying player to play their $15 in whatever way that makes them happy.
That sir, means you have ZERO clue.
I am not in the "v" guys squad, but I do respect their right to play their $15 bucks how they want. I am also not in a "hoard" squad (the entire 5 of us couldn't hoard much) but I DO believe that those who DO hoard you probably do it for the added extra bonus that they can come to the forums and watch you whine about it.
I have never said the folks who take bases were superior to anyone. You need to go back and do some extensive reading on this board for the last 2 years because you won't find it....in fact, I have been all about anyone/everyone has the right to play their $15 bucks how they darned well please. You, on the otherhand, go from thread to thread to thread whining, crying, moaning, and belly-aching about how others play their $15 bucks ad nauseum. Better yet, you just won a coveted spot on my ingnore list.
PS---If your going to call someone out on an issue---it just might help if next time you had a at least a minuscule clue what you were talking about.
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hey can we stop using such big words my fricken head hurts
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I bet the British were yellin "unfair!!" in the revolutionary war!!
"They're using Indian style tactics"!!
Who won that war anyhow?
Oh yeah, the Indian style tactic dweebs.
-
There goes the siren that warns of the air raid,
Then comes the sound of the guns sending flak.
Out for the scramble we've got to get airborne,
Got to get up for the coming attack.
Jump in the cockpit and start up the engines,
Remove all the wheelblocks there's no time to waste.
Gathering speed as we head down the runway,
Got to get airborne before it's too late.
Running, scrambling, fire,
Rolling, turning, diving, going in again.
Running, scrambling, fire, Rolling, turning, diving,
Run, live to fly, fly to live, do or die.
Won't you run, live to fly, fly to live, Aces high!
Move in to fire at the mainstream of bombers,
Let off a sharp burst and then turn away.
Roll over, spin round to come in behind them,
Move to their blindsides and firing again.
Bandits at 8 O'clock move in behind us,
Ten ME-109's out of the sun.
Ascending and turning our spitfires to face them,
Heading straight for them I press down my guns.
Rolling, turning, diving,
Rolling, turning, diving, going in again.
Rolling, turning, diving, Rolling, turning, diving,
Run, live to fly, fly to live, do or die.
Won't you run, live to fly, fly to live, Aces high!!!
:rock
I absolutely love this song :aok
-
Up the Irons :aok
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I bet the British were yellin "unfair!!" in the revolutionary war!!
"They're using Indian style tactics"!!
Who won that war anyhow?
Oh yeah, the Indian style tactic dweebs.
LOL there ya go again with that war bit. Folks were really dying too. A lot more reason to avoid combat if you could and 'win' other ways.
No such complication here :)
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I absolutely love this song :aok
Faintly reminiscent of air combat... :noid
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and again. htc could do more for AH. theres a whole huge and i mean HUGE player base out there that wanna play a game to win.
Winning in this game doesn't always coincide with taking bases or resetting the map. When you shoot down another plane, that's also "winning" and then there is the whole Charlie Sheen theory of Winning but that one is for another thread.
and the player base outnumbers those who only wanna play game to get kills.
You really couldn't be more wrong and I understand your confusion because you really just don't have a clue.
The person that wants to capture the base wants to win. The person that wants to reset the map wants to win. The person that wants to dogfight wants to win. For some reason you are only equating winning with base captures and resetting the map. As someone that derives their fun out of fighting, believe me I play to win, just like you play to win when you try to take bases and reset the map.
thats all furballing is its players upping just to get as many kills as they can. what does that offer to thsoe who wanna play a game to win and win with teamwork.
Again, you're making the repeated mistake of only equating "winning and team work" with base captures and resetting the map. Maybe because despite your claims in another thread about your vast dogfighting/furball experience in a jet sim against AI opponets, you really don't know what or experienced what dogfighting/furball is. You have some silly notion that it's just a bunch of guys going at it 1v1 all in one area totally without any team work when you couldn't be even more wrong if you tried.
Once you learn what teamwork is, you'll see that it actually encompasses all forms of game play.
ack-ack
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who think vulching is cool.
Vulching is cool and incredibly fun, it's the closest thing we have to tea bagging someone in game.
ack-ack
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bla bla bla
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/inkscluebyfour.jpg)
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bmwgs and moot,
How about we just call it a war game simulation that some people play for sport?
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The only thing about it I think is important enough to argue is using "war" as a crutch to justify unfair game design.
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The simple fact that you have ZERO CLUE how I play this game, have never run into me IN GAME to see how I play this game made the above statement so asinine my squaddies who read your asinine comment laughed so loud in my headphones my ears hurt.
If there are those who come to the forums and roll bases and then come to the forums and gloat it's not me. I haven't run a base take mission (due to health problems) in years. I DO respect others right to play their $15 bucks how they choose to and that goes for every current sub paying player to play their $15 in whatever way that makes them happy.
That sir, means you have ZERO clue.
I am not in the "v" guys squad, but I do respect their right to play their $15 bucks how they want. I am also not in a "hoard" squad (the entire 5 of us couldn't hoard much) but I DO believe that those who DO hoard you probably do it for the added extra bonus that they can come to the forums and watch you whine about it.
I have never said the folks who take bases were superior to anyone. You need to go back and do some extensive reading on this board for the last 2 years because you won't find it....in fact, I have been all about anyone/everyone has the right to play their $15 bucks how they darned well please. You, on the otherhand, go from thread to thread to thread whining, crying, moaning, and belly-aching about how others play their $15 bucks ad nauseum. Better yet, you just won a coveted spot on my ingnore list.
PS---If your going to call someone out on an issue---it just might help if next time you had a at least a minuscule clue what you were talking about.
OK, see, now I'm thinking this has to be a troll, because there's no way you're actually this stupid......
But.... just in case it's not a joke, I'll clear something up, and I'll do it in short sentences with small words for you, as it's obvious you have serious comprehension problems....
First, you missed the part where I wasn't talking to you in the first place concerning rolling bases and hording (neither of which I have a problem with or whine about, so you're wrong there as well, as usual). I had directed my comments to vWild949, aka fullmetalbullet, to whom the "WINNING" post was addressed - the same one you felt the need to comment on - as you're apparently following me around humping my ankle every time I comment in one of these threads. My response about "you" thumping your chest about rolling bases was a figurative "you" not you specifically, as I wasn't talking to or about you on that subject originally, I was directing those comments to the vGuys, rubberbullet specifically. You apparently don't have the intellectual or cognative ability to make that distinction, though, so shame on me for using too complex of a thought pattern in my response to you. From now on when I respond to your ankle humping I'll word my responses to you in a much simpler, easier to understand manner so as to not confuse a mouth-breather such as yourself.
Once again, since you have a problem with comprehension, I've never told anyone how they should play with their $15. To each his own, and I do respect that right to play however you see fit. The disconnect here is that you think just because everyone has the right to play however they want that everyone should be entitled to respect and admiration for playing the way they do. You carrying on about how awesome you are as a "mission planner" is an example. You think you're awesome, based on your previous comments. I think you're a toolshedder (based on your descriptions of how you play). Have I ever told you not to do what you do? No. Do I respect people who bring big groups of bombers in at stratospheric altitudes and shut down all the hangers, killing a fight (the only thing I remember actually complaining about in a thread recently with respect to hordes, vGuys, etc)? No. Do I give a rat's arse if my lack of respect for you gets your panties in a wad? HA! NO.
Reading back over my post so far, I realize I didn't stick to the short sentences and small words bit, so you may have to read it all a few times, maybe even have a friend explain it to you. My apologies, I'm not trained to work with special needs kids so sometimes I have difficulty simplifying things.
But let's recap:
Me ---- Not talking about you in last post
You ---- Don't understand my post or what it meant
You ---- Upset because you think I'm mean
Me ---- Done talking to you
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The smash and grab is such a rarely used tactic that it barely warrants it's own thread.
I do like to use them to take coastal bases in order to establish a beach head to fight from but they require total suprise in order to work. They also aren't fun enough to do routinely.
In these playing style debate threads, I think that too often we overlook one of the greatest aspects of playing Aces High which is that there are many ways to play Aces High and nobody can control your own personal playing style.
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The smash and grab is such a rarely used tactic that it barely warrants it's own thread.
In these playing style debate threads, I think that too often we overlook one of the greatest aspects of playing Aces High which is that there are many ways to play Aces High and nobody can control your own personal playing style.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
THIS