Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Citabria on April 18, 2011, 09:51:42 PM
-
seen some people blaming caps and etc for empty tank towns...
the reason the tank towns are empty is because of supply and demand of cover and concealment.
at the moment there are trees and hedges and bushes so clustered all over the place that gv dweebs would about give anything for some open spaces without stuff everywhere like titanium bushes blocking their shots.
has nothing to do with split arenas or numbers at all.
-
Not really, mostly of TT's are empty cuz they put the spawns too close and they are easy to camp, we got some other that got the spaws pretty far so they are hard to camp, and that ones are the full ones.
Can remember the TT covered by the 30k walls, that one was a blast.. almost no bombtars but after some map updates they killed that TT.
-
Trinity, it's exactly the same as it was before. The concept of TT is just dead.
-
no one likes gvs anymore :cry
-
And bomb tards - let's not forget them lol
-
TT died because every one had an idea on how to make it better. HTC kept making changes as we requested & collectively we shot our selves in the foot.
-
I personally got fed up with the invincible players (the 1 or 2 people who would literally bounce 20+ rounds from several GV's).
-
Not really, mostly of TT's are empty cuz they put the spawns too close and they are easy to camp, we got some other that got the spaws pretty far so they are hard to camp, and that ones are the full ones.
Can remember the TT covered by the 30k walls, that one was a blast.. almost no bombtars but after some map updates they killed that TT.
It's actually just the opposite.
The most popular tanks areas seem to have two spawns almost right on top of each other and a good field of fire.
You spawn in and start blasting away. No need to find the action. You're in it as soon as you get there.
What may have killed the TT concept is the classic "what the customer asks for is not always what he wants."
We have more realism with trees, hedgerows and mounds to hide behind. Now, you cannot see the enemy to shoot at without moving and looking for him, driving into an ambush.
The most successful gvers are the patient ones who, if necessary, will wait for some impatient soul to drive by looking for something to kill.
It seems to be all about instant gratification.
wrongway
-
I reckon that whatever caused it, it hasn't repopulated just cause of crowd "fad" dynamics. No one goes cause no one's there, vice versa.
Either way, the icons should go or be reduced to .5 or 1K. This is clearly a flak and it was sighted as pictured from 2K away if not a bit more.
(http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s58/tapakeg/AH_/ahss197.jpg)
It's even more obvious in motion. Once you've seen them enough times, pretty much each GV has its signature pixelized appearance from afar, so that you can pretty easily tell specific types and pretty damn nearly 100% of the time you can recognize a FLAK long before icon.
So what is the rationale for icons?
-
classic "what the customer asks for is not always what he wants."
We have more realism with trees, hedgerows and mounds to hide behind. Now, you cannot see the enemy to shoot at without moving and looking for him, driving into an ambush.
So if the problem is pretty well defined, that's half the work done.
1) Put a town in the middle of three vbases.
2) Make the town spawns not visible from each other, e.g. hills/trees/whatever - details TBD later. ... You could even have some kind of vbase in the middle of town, in a kind of KOTH setup so that having that base is a clear advantage for (and only for) the town area proper.
3) Give a second "backup" spawn behind the town spawn, also not immediately visible from enemy spawns, but probably has clear LOS to friendly town spawn and e.g. the hills that enemy would have to sit on top of to spawn camp >>> result is that you stick out like a sore thumb on top of the hills that surround the spawn.
4) Put the vbase so that it's equidistant to backup spawn as backup spawn is to town spawn. Draw the terrain so that the 17 pdr positions have equal or advantageous view on backup spawn & spawn camp positions to backup spawn.
5) Repeat front/backup/vbase spawns behind this "tank town" vbase once, like it was done IIRC in Trinity.
6) If the enemy manages to take both first and second vbase, he's earned it.
-
TT was alive and well in Blue for a long time this evening.
EDIT: It's been awhile since I've seen a massive GV fight like that. Hopefully the new GV changes will make those fights more popular.
-
One thing I will add is the lack of cover from airplanes bombs hurt the TT fights as much as anything The best tank fights now are found away from ord , gv bases that are far enough away to discourage flying attack aircraft help, icon reduction could also help, parking in a barn or under some trees may not save you from being bombed but they should conceal your icon better!
my biggest complaint about most gv fights to easy to die to the planes, with the addition of the il2 cannons and b25 big gun, you no longer need ord to kill gv's and there is no good cover from them, if a gv is moving in the open that is different, but with all the cover we have, we still have no cover from the planes!
Just my 2 cents :old:
Edit: my idea of a better tank town than we have now on the TT map and a bit less cover, more barns and were there are trees, a better canopy for air cover, but with a high visibility underneath,
the three airbases around it would be small bases but different than what we have now,
A small airfeild would not have bomber hangers and only one ord bunker.
I never understood why everything that is available on the big airbases was also at the smaller ones and don't have any idea why you wouldn't have forward bases that could not handle big bombers? you would still have ord but only for fighters, and maybe some dirt strips to.
Bomb the heck out out of the gv's at the airbases but make it a bit harder to just go out of your way to ruin good GV fights!
-
Pick this layout apart:
(http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s58/tapakeg/AH_/tt_01a.jpg)
Not to scale.
vbase in the center of town.
Town neither regular nor irregular, there's main streets and a few plazas, but it's not totally predictable either.
Outskirts of town in blue, sparse buildings/greenery, increasingly dense as you reach town limits
Each country has 2 vbases in the area.
Front base has a spawn halfway to town ("town spawn") and another halfway between town spawn and front base.
Rear base has a spawn halfway to front base, and another spawn halfway between that spawn and itself, as backup spawn.
Brown flakes are heavy brush/trees. Terrain altitude lines in green.
Green lines + brown flakes = you're on an incline with brush in your eyes, no spawn camping except random spots of visibility thru the brush, a few degrees wide each like looking thru forests on current maps.
Black areas have nothing more than sparse hedgerows.
The whole area has as dense a cloud cover as HTC allows.
-
I reckon that whatever caused it, it hasn't repopulated just cause of crowd "fad" dynamics. No one goes cause no one's there, vice versa.
Either way, the icons should go or be reduced to .5 or 1K. This is clearly a flak and it was sighted as pictured from 2K away if not a bit more.
(http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s58/tapakeg/AH_/ahss197.jpg)
It's even more obvious in motion. Once you've seen them enough times, pretty much each GV has its signature pixelized appearance from afar, so that you can pretty easily tell specific types and pretty damn nearly 100% of the time you can recognize a FLAK long before icon.
So what is the rationale for icons?
That's not a flak even when I put my nose to the monitor and squint.
-
(http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s58/tapakeg/AH_/ahss197b.jpg)
A tank would have the barrel clearly obvious and wouldn't look so tall. Also the color palette is unique to flaks.
The only way I can see icons being required is if people are playing low enough resolution to not tell them apart till they're closer than ~1.5K.
-
1.5K I think would be fine.
-
the reason the tank towns are empty is because of supply and demand of cover and concealment.
TT on Trinity has hardly any cover.
Not really, mostly of TT's are empty cuz they put the spawns too close and they are easy to camp, we got some other that got the spaws pretty far so they are hard to camp, and that ones are the full ones.
Not really. TT on Trinity is completely empty, but the spawncamp battle at V135, where two spawns are almost on top of each other often rages on for hours each day the map is up.
What may have killed the TT concept is the classic "what the customer asks for is not always what he wants."
We have more realism with trees, hedgerows and mounds to hide behind. Now, you cannot see the enemy to shoot at without moving and looking for him, driving into an ambush.
This is actually one key issue that started the downfall, another one is
I reckon that whatever caused it, it hasn't repopulated just cause of crowd "fad" dynamics. No one goes cause no one's there, vice versa.
TT was alive and well in Blue for a long time this evening.
What you can see in TT on Ndisles is just a mere shadow of the past in terms of activity.
The downfall of Tank Town
For newer players: The "golden days" of Tank Town:
Back in the day, at least 4 maps did have an area called Tank Town. Their setups were quite different, from single spawns for each country that happened to be very close to each other and easily being camped (NDisles, the "original" and most popular TT) to multiple base/spawns systems with some distance to the actual killing zone (for example Trinity).
But all of them had action constantly, at any given time you could find a quarter to a third of the arena population in there. Almost safe from enemy bombs (Trinity), or heavily bombed and fought over in the air (NDisles) - it didn't matter.
So what killed it?
There are two initial causes: Terrain changes and the arena split (though not in a way some may think now), and one additional one that gave the coup de grace: Population pynamics.
1) When the big split came, all big terrains were removed for over a year. Thus NDisles was the only map left that had a TT.
2) About a year or so later, there was a huge terrain update as well as a redesign of Ndisles Spawns (in two or three steps). Tank town went from single, very close spawns a very small town and light cover (a few patches of woods and a few hills) to multiple spawns, pulled far back, with very heavy cover (the dreaded hedges - way more than there are left today). The intentions may have been good (to prevent "silly" spawn camping), but after the final change numbers in Tank Town fell off quickly. I guess the huge amount of cover and having either only very short (a few hundred feet from hedge to hedge) or very long engagement ranges (from the mountains to the TT are, several K) and thus the lack of intermediate combat ranges was killing it. More and more players were reluctant to move, simply lying in wait and listening for enemies rolling nearby. Sometimes it reminded me more of a game submarines... listening for enemy contacts, reluctant to move and increasing it's acoustic signature... who moves first is dead.
However it worked exactly, most players quickly got bored with the "new" TT and left, leaving only very few diehards behind.
3) With only one dysfunctional TT are in game, the idea of TT died. You have to keep in mind AH's population is not stable and ever lasting. New players are constantly replacing older ones. Players that are staying for many years are just a minority. And new players take the game as what it is, they learn not only the "rules" but also the game concepts and game culture from what they see happening when they join.
So after 1-2 years you had a majority of players that never had really experienced the old Tank Town tradition. And when Trinity came back up after about three years... the tradition was broken. I vividly remember that evening: "Hooray, Tank Town!" I thought,went there immediately. I found a few AH vets there that had the same thoughts (I recall Shawk for example).. but that was about it. A dozen old boys simply wasn't enough to get things started again. The majority of players was not here long enough to know about it, the concept of spawning to a central area without any chances to capture (or at least so save) a base seems to be forgotten.
And now you see the crowd dynamics at work: No one goes there because no one is there. Even on NDisles, where the number and density of that dreaded hedges had been reduced significantly, activity s just a poor remnant of it's past.
There had been a few tries to get the ball rolling again on Trinity, but they all petered out after 1-2 hours. The very ironic thing is: We have a perfect Tank Town, very effiectively shielded from lazy bomb****s by 20k mountains... and regularly we have players asking here on the BBS for a separate tanking arena for "undisturbed" tanking.
So I do what the rest does: I go to V135 where I either camp, or spawn in to die within 2 seconds...
-
It's actually just the opposite.
The most popular tanks areas seem to have two spawns almost right on top of each other and a good field of fire.
You spawn in and start blasting away. No need to find the action. You're in it as soon as you get there.
What may have killed the TT concept is the classic "what the customer asks for is not always what he wants."
We have more realism with trees, hedgerows and mounds to hide behind. Now, you cannot see the enemy to shoot at without moving and looking for him, driving into an ambush.
The most successful gvers are the patient ones who, if necessary, will wait for some impatient soul to drive by looking for something to kill.
It seems to be all about instant gratification.
wrongway
I agree completely. TT was crowded when all you had to do was spawn in to find a fight. You get killed and spawn right back in. When you have to spawn and then drive a ways only to get killed in an ambush, you have plenty of time to think "Boy, this is a waste of time."
-
I think the biggest reason TT is gone is because the GVers have gone from their own little niche in the game to land grabbing. For better or worse, who is to say?
-
Lusche hit the nail on the head and I agree. The most popular spawns are like V135 and V85. Spawn in and start shooting without even starting you motor and shoot fast or die. I don't want to pay to drive 15 minutes just to die. If this was real life the DOT would put your tank out of service for 8 hrs because you are out of driving time in your log book lol. Every map needs a spawn like V135. The GV folks pay their $14.95 too.
-
Tank towns are empty??
I dont think so. Remember the trinity maps epic spawn battles at 135? Thats pretty much fun as long as the numbers are nearly even.
-
Tank towns are empty??
I dont think so. Remember the trinity maps epic spawn battles at 135? Thats pretty much fun as long as the numbers are nearly even.
V135 is not tank town. And yes, TT on Trinity IS empty.
-
TT is empty because the players realised the GV modelling is not worth any interest. The day tanks will no feel like driving a buggy and that the terrain objects will be destroyable, maybe it will be worth the 15$. For now I stay on battlezone :old:
-
TT is empty because the players realised the GV modelling is not worth any interest.
That's nonsense. The GV modeling has nothing to do with why TT suddenly died.
-
That's nonsense.
provocation better :bolt:
-
We need a new IMPROVED tank town :joystick:
-
We need a new IMPROVED tank town :joystick:
HTC should create one to release when they release the new GV system.
-
I think that when the game (any game) has come to whack-a-mole button-mashing gameplay like the V135 spawn camp fests being as "as good as it gets", you've pretty much hit rock bottom.
-
We need a new IMPROVED tank town :joystick:
But you would also find a way to get players there - that's the difficult part. In fact, TT on trinity ain't worse than it used to be...
I for one have given up any hope for TT. If I would design a new map, I would use a different approach for better GV fights.
-
I found myself sitting in tanks most of the time I was playing yesterday. I think it all changed with the new terrain system. The titanium trees, and bushes have really messed up tank warfare. I remember before the big update that there could be fights that extended upwards of 3200 yards, across the whole tank town.
I think that with this hedgerow type of terrain it is leaving little to the person and more to finding a spot to ambush other tanks driving by.
If we could lessen the amount of trees that are in a certain area I think that it would promote a more open type of warfare instead of sitting behind a bush for countless minutes until an unlucky soul drives by.
-
Old Tank changes are way off.I cant wait for the new Tank changes
Atleast thats my reason why i stopped tanking :cry
-
But you would also find a way to get players there - that's the difficult part.
HTC has a window, when the new GV system is released. If they could couple the new GV system with a new place to use GVs, they might be able to generate a significant rise in interest. But, the window is small, which is why they should do something with the terrain at the same time as the GV system.
-
But you would also find a way to get players there - that's the difficult part. In fact, TT on trinity ain't worse than it used to be...
I for one have given up any hope for TT. If I would design a new map, I would use a different approach for better GV fights.
We can rebuild it...we have the technology (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HofoK_QQxGc)..
HTC has a window, when the new GV system is released. If they could couple the new GV system with a new place to use GVs, they might be able to generate a significant rise in interest. But, the window is small, which is why they should do something with the terrain at the same time as the GV system.
It'd be ideal, but building something better with the current means may be enough to tide tankers over till an actual terrain update.
-
Old Tank changes are way off.I cant wait for the new Tank changes
Atleast thats my reason why i stopped tanking :cry
Just a side note: Players in general have never stopped tanking, they just dropped playing in TT (for the reasons i mentioned in my earlier post). Tanks are less frequently spawned for "furballing" sakes, and more for the war game centered around capturing or defending bases.
Someone trying to design new maps with the intention of enabling some more "higher quality" tank combat should keep that in mind.
-
We can rebuild it...we have the technology (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HofoK_QQxGc)..
I loved that show. If they started running the episodes late at night, I would tune in.
-
Just a side note: Players in general have never stopped tanking, they just dropped playing in TT (for the reasons i mentioned in my earlier post). Tanks are less frequently spawned for "furballing" sakes, and more for the war game centered around capturing or defending bases.
Someone trying to design new maps with the intention of enabling some more "higher quality" tank combat should keep that in mind.
I agree with you all the way.I would like to say though the Armor thickness is all wrong/not that i have any proof of this.
-
Just a side note: Players in general have never stopped tanking, they just dropped playing in TT (for the reasons i mentioned in my earlier post). Tanks are less frequently spawned for "furballing" sakes, and more for the war game centered around capturing or defending bases.
Someone trying to design new maps with the intention of enabling some more "higher quality" tank combat should keep that in mind.
+1 for the most part!
It is weird to see many tanks at 135 when there is a tank town on the same map that is deserted!
most of my GV kills and deaths have come from 135 this tour, tanking is still alive and well, just not were you would think it would be! :noid
-
As a tanker that favors the run and gun GV fighting involved in offense/defense as opposed to spawn shootouts I must say that GV'ing is alive and well. It just does not show up at your doorstep. Mind you I still participate in those fun & mindless spawn shootouts on occasion, but the repetitiveness quickly becomes boring. You have to go out and look for or create the fights nowadays.
-
well there was plenty of spwn battle going on by v43 arena and had rooks atting us bish on both side went on for ours
-
There was something to be said for the point and click gv wars.
And the abillity to land in town on the right rotation was something to look forward to.
It would be interesting to bring one of the old maps back and see if that really is the cause .
Really the terrains killed it for me. You have a tank and you want to shoot other tank watermelon with it. Not trees and shrubs. If you park behind something hard I have no problem not behing able to shoot thru it ... but if you see some guy drive into a hedge it would be reral nice to shoot him not see a tank round stopped by some leaves. I would rather have the point and click gv wars than the leaves stop tank rounds gv wars.
An what was the deal with the palm trees map.... you try to shoot into or out of the trees and some palm leaves stop a tank round? Just a pain in the arse is what it was. Some of the most fun I had was shegotya tank wars in the special area she brought back some just gaming fun...... I just cant make those all the time . it was nice when you could log on and just get some action.
It is intersting to me that the new players are not gravitating to the TT. What created the dynamic that really got the ball rolling with the original TT. New tanks might have had a part in it. More tanks more things to say hey this is not right or thats not right or im not spednign perks to spawn it to get wacked.?
-
I am a known camper but I prefer tank town without the nonsense.
...My solution would be to
1. Make 3 center bases uncapturable
2. Make ords disabled there because ords have no use if the base is uncapturable unless your being a tard.
3. Put in some interesting terrain, some creeks, barb wire, small valleys etc. etc.
4. Either remove half of the vegetation or make it destructable
Hitech making these changes and adding this environment to EVERY map would increase player #'s
-
4. Either remove half of the vegetation or make it destructable
this
there is so much vegitation that it makes any movement almost certain death. add to that when you do spot a tank waiting for the ambush half the time they are protected by a few leaves of a titanium tree that will prevent you from killing them but alert them to your position after you fire. and then odds are they can shoot you from behind their titanium bush and get the kill on you.
this amount of indestructable cover favors stagnated ambush ground vehicle combat and discourages flanking and movement fights and long range stand off fights that make heavy tanks with good optics shine are pretty few and far between.
-
*puts 80K mountains in a circle around uncap V bases as secondaries behind a main V-base for each country to prevent a FULL TT Capture - thus keeping the fight there.*
ta-da xD
-
this
there is so much vegitation that it makes any movement almost certain death. add to that when you do spot a tank waiting for the ambush half the time they are protected by a few leaves of a titanium tree that will prevent you from killing them but alert them to your position after you fire. and then odds are they can shoot you from behind their titanium bush and get the kill on you.
this amount of indestructable cover favors stagnated ambush ground vehicle combat and discourages flanking and movement fights and long range stand off fights that make heavy tanks with good optics shine are pretty few and far between.
But that's the way it's supposed to work IRL. A well prepared ambush position..?
I admire the patience of those who can just sit there and wait in a good, concealed spot, for someone to come along.
wrongway
-
Yes but Tank town should also always have a furball going on overhead...planes are important to consider in a TT
Dont make the mountains around higher just take away the ords from the fun spoilers
-
Take away the ords and the tanks become the fun spoilers. It needs to be evened out, not lopsided..
Less icons would work. Give turret shots the smoke they should have.. Reduce icons to 1K, or 0.5, or remove them altogether. Or make GV icons shorter/invisible when seen thru clouds. Then stick clouds as low as HTC allows over TT. That would make bombing them an actual challenge but not impossible, and make Flak defense a little less easy as well; GVs could also lose icons as much as planes would when seen thru clouds.
This'd be a TT specific band-aid fix. It'd only affect the rest of a map when fog banks were near a field, and that almost never happens near airfields.
-
Take away the ords and the tanks become the fun spoilers. It needs to be evened out, not lopsided..
Less icons would work. Give turret shots the smoke they should have.. Reduce icons to 1K, or 0.5, or remove them altogether. Or make GV icons shorter/invisible when seen thru clouds. Then stick clouds as low as HTC allows over TT. That would make bombing them an actual challenge but not impossible, and make Flak defense a little less easy as well; GVs could also lose icons as much as planes would when seen thru clouds.
This'd be a TT specific band-aid fix. It'd only affect the rest of a map when fog banks were near a field, and that almost never happens near airfields.
How do tanks spoil fun when bases are uncapturable?
-
I was saying that taking ords away from bases near TT means TT vbases can roll to those bases unopposed, unless someone brings ord from another nearby base.
I don't know what you mean with uncapturable. Were TT area fields uncapturable?
-
the countries all have a single uncapturable vbase and airbase in the center of the map...kind of a instant WW2 action without the fun spoilers.
-
Which map are we talking about? You don't mean the HQ area fields do you?
-
No take the LW blue map we have now I forget what its called and make those bases uncapturable.
Shutup M00T you know what I'm talking about you troll lol
-
Sorry I don't. Lemme check what map is up..
Titanic is up, don't see Blue.
You mean Tagma?
I don't see any uncapturable stuff ...
(http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s58/tapakeg/AH_/ahss241.jpg)
(http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s58/tapakeg/AH_/ahss242.jpg)
What I was saying above was strictly about Tank Town and how to have a spot where it was impossible for any planes to interfere unless the tanks came out from that area and gave planes a reason to make the effort of hauling bombs over to TT area.
-
Belial was saying make them uncapturable and remove ord.... :bhead thats what i got form it anyways
-
Alright.. That could work (dunno if the terrain system supports it).. A vbase in the middle of TT would have to be capturable though.
Removing ord doesn't sound right - remove it from where? And if the vbases in TT area are uncapturable, you'd have to keep those uncapturable TT vbases away from airfields and with no spawns to airfields too. Otherwise it's an invitation for bombers to come shut TT down.
edit- I see, somehow the forum skipped Belial's original suggestions post where he first mentions no ord. I don't think it's going to happen. I think the only way to make it work within what players would have fun with and within what HT would agree to, is something like Trinity's TT. Or AKDesert's outer ring.
-
Some of the most fun I had was shegotya tank wars in the special area she brought back some just gaming fun......
Thanks so much! :aok
Still have Blitzkrieg on the first Sunday of each month and our forum is Heavy Metal Sunday ...
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/board,450.0.html
Of course any player that has an idea for an event (about 90 minutes) can let me know and we can do what we need to get it in the SEA on a Blitzkrieg night.
:salute
-
World of Tanks :devil
-
I am a known camper but I prefer tank town without the nonsense.
...My solution would be to
1. Make 3 center bases uncapturable
2. Make ords disabled there because ords have no use if the base is uncapturable unless your being a tard.
3. Put in some interesting terrain, some creeks, barb wire, small valleys etc. etc.
4. Either remove half of the vegetation or make it destructable
Hitech making these changes and adding this environment to EVERY map would increase player #'s
The map I was referring to with this suggestion was NDISLES....make every map have this sort of setup in the center for constant action with different terrain.
-
Could it be that tanker types gravitate towards tank games? :P
-
Could it be that tanker types gravitate towards tank games? :P
Not unlikely ... in fact I think someone who was really (and exclusively) into pure tank action hardly came to AH. But:
- the actual share of GV action in AH hasn't really changed
- Tank Town died a long time ago without any significant new tank game coming on the market during that time
-
Not unlikely ... in fact I think someone who was really (and exclusively) into pure tank action hardly came to AH. But:
- the actual share of GV action in AH hasn't really changed
- Tank Town died a long time ago without any significant new tank game coming on the market during that time
Some russian game out for awhile now that they don't have to worry about aircraft.
What TTs there are now seem to get captured and taken out of the game so to speak. So it is not really a game issue but a user issue. Maybe it will help that the new release will have some GV changes included.
-
What TTs there are now seem to get captured and taken out of the game so to speak. So it is not really a game issue but a user issue.
This "user issue" is a direct result out of game issues. TT fell into disuse first because of game changes.
-
World of Tanks :devil
More than likely. It's tanking without some moronic bomb**** looking for an easy kill. Yeah you have some of the OP tanks but it just feels even better to kill them.
Speaking of WoT - we have an AH gamer channel in-game where a few of us hang out.
-
If theres one thing a simmer will get sick of in a hurry with WOT it's the randomized dispersion system. You basically surrender your aim to a jackpot machine.
-
seen some people blaming caps and etc for empty tank towns...
the reason the tank towns are empty is because of supply and demand of cover and concealment.
at the moment there are trees and hedges and bushes so clustered all over the place that gv dweebs would about give anything for some open spaces without stuff everywhere like titanium bushes blocking their shots.
has nothing to do with split arenas or numbers at all.
I don't like arena split, but ok, is HTC's choice. We could have same fun every evening like in TitanicT style on large maps, in 2 LW arenas with less #s on small maps.But.. they built the program controlling CAPs/population in 2x LW arenas wrong, or incomplete; the priority is to fill up both arenas even, doesn't matter with what. When i log in, i should be sent in the arena with lower bish #s, not in the arena with lower overall#s. Imop, this is what keeps tank towns empty, it's not fun getting camped, and is not fun camping with 20 buddies waiting at the spawn for an out#noob fool to spawn.Unbalanced gaming is not fun,air or ground.
-
Just a thought, and not one meant to seperate tankers from the arenas, but would an tankers arena with smaller maps made by folks with some insight into how the GV war works?
What ran through my mind was something similar to the AvA where there might be a theme or map type that fit for generating tank battles. Maybe it's a North African terrain that means little cover and concealment and more open tank fights, or a winter terrain that's the Russian Front, or Ardennes.
Seems to me the WWI arena was someone implemented to introduce new damage models etc. Maybe the introduction of the new tank viewing set up might be a time for something like that to work out the bugs and encourage more specific tank warfare going forward?
It doesn't mean you couldn't tank in the regular arenas, but it might allow the dedicated GV'ers to really have at it too.
-
Just a thought, and not one meant to seperate tankers from the arenas, but would an tankers arena with smaller maps made by folks with some insight into how the GV war works?
What ran through my mind was something similar to the AvA where there might be a theme or map type that fit for generating tank battles. Maybe it's a North African terrain that means little cover and concealment and more open tank fights, or a winter terrain that's the Russian Front, or Ardennes.
Seems to me the WWI arena was someone implemented to introduce new damage models etc. Maybe the introduction of the new tank viewing set up might be a time for something like that to work out the bugs and encourage more specific tank warfare going forward?
It doesn't mean you couldn't tank in the regular arenas, but it might allow the dedicated GV'ers to really have at it too.
think this is a great idea, but it would be easier to just have a center area on every map with three V and A fields a large to huge city in center , no spawn points, just roll from hanger a short distance and enter the city, some guns protecting the area of entry... no ords at air fields...all fields uncaptureable.
a perfect fighter and Tank town :x
-
think this is a great idea, but it would be easier to just have a center area on every map with three V and A fields a large to huge city in center , no spawn points, just roll from hanger a short distance and enter the city, some guns protecting the area of entry... no ords at air fields...all fields uncaptureable.
a perfect fighter and Tank town :x
We've thrown that out there forever, but HTC hasn't ever gone with that.
-
We've thrown that out there forever, but HTC hasn't ever gone with that.
yup...if I remember correctly something about "dividing the community..."
seems its too late for that.
-
I don't like arena split, but ok, is HTC's choice. We could have same fun every evening like in TitanicT style on large maps, in 2 LW arenas with less #s on small maps.But.. they built the program controlling CAPs/population in 2x LW arenas wrong, or incomplete; the priority is to fill up both arenas even, doesn't matter with what. When i log in, i should be sent in the arena with lower bish #s, not in the arena with lower overall#s. Imop, this is what keeps tank towns empty, it's not fun getting camped, and is not fun camping with 20 buddies waiting at the spawn for an out#noob fool to spawn.Unbalanced gaming is not fun,air or ground.
Or you could not be bish every now and then. :joystick:
-
This "user issue" is a direct result out of game issues. TT fell into disuse first because of game changes.
You are probably right.
-
Just a thought, and not one meant to seperate tankers from the arenas, but would an tankers arena with smaller maps made by folks with some insight into how the GV war works?
What ran through my mind was something similar to the AvA where there might be a theme or map type that fit for generating tank battles. Maybe it's a North African terrain that means little cover and concealment and more open tank fights, or a winter terrain that's the Russian Front, or Ardennes.
Seems to me the WWI arena was someone implemented to introduce new damage models etc. Maybe the introduction of the new tank viewing set up might be a time for something like that to work out the bugs and encourage more specific tank warfare going forward?
It doesn't mean you couldn't tank in the regular arenas, but it might allow the dedicated GV'ers to really have at it too.
There is already a fine map for GVing. It is used in the AVA now and has bridges that can be destroyed, sand storms... More can always be made. The GV arena may be a winner.
-
As an avid GVer, I do not think I would like a separate arena. I like the dynamics of both the air and ground battle going on. Like all other GVer's, I do not care to have eggs dropped on me during a good GV battle, but that is part of the game.
I think it is to easy to egg GVs. I am one of the worst dive bombers there is, and I can still get two out of three. I know this is not real life, that horse has already been beaten, but in reality could a P47 get three kills on tanks with three bombs on a regular basis? I did a simple internet search and could not find anything conclusive, but for the history buffs out there I was just wondering.
I would like to see the GV icons shortened. I think 1.5k just makes it way to easy.
My opinion
Fred
-
As an avid GVer, I do not think I would like a separate arena. I like the dynamics of both the air and ground battle going on. Like all other GVer's, I do not care to have eggs dropped on me during a good GV battle, but that is part of the game.
I think it is to easy to egg GVs. I am one of the worst dive bombers there is, and I can still get two out of three. I know this is not real life, that horse has already been beaten, but in reality could a P47 get three kills on tanks with three bombs on a regular basis? I did a simple internet search and could not find anything conclusive, but for the history buffs out there I was just wondering.
I would like to see the GV icons shortened. I think 1.5k just makes it way to easy.
My opinion
Fred
If you get 2 out of 3 then you are nowhere near the worst dive bomber. :D
I see your point about the dynamics. The stand alone arena would be for those that do not want to be bombed... ever.
In SAPP I think our best dive bomber gets 1 out of every 3 augers. :devil
-
1. Tank town is a perma combat environment.
2. It's true the players ruin the fun in a place like Tank town.
3. But It's hitech that is giving them the tools to do so.
A Tank town environment that is always around is good for the game.
-
As for World of Tanks. I do like the short drives to get into action. However all tanks have icons and you have to play with the mouse not a joy stick. While you don't have to worry about bomb****s the artillery in WoT is just about as deadly. The WoT sights are good on the tanks but over all game play is superior in Aces high by far for me and I lost interest in WoT pretty fast.
I am looking forward to the new GV changes coming up in aces high. Thanks again HTC for the much needed up dates to our Armor. As for the map designs we have. These maps and spawn distances are designs by pilot and plane minded people. The same guys who say, it is called aces high if you voice a complaint about GVing. Kind of like letting the Fox design the hen house. While I appreciate the hard work of the folks who take time to make these map please give the Tankers one good spawn on each map and we will stay out of you hair at the air bases.
-
Gonna take a wild guess and bet that the WOT terrains are much more like WWII tanking environments than AH. In AH, tank's operating environments are disproportionately wide open areas with nowhere to go for cover, other than hangars, towns, woods with effectively no canopy, etc. And I bet there was much more G2A defense for planes to contend with than the vast majority of times that planes meet enemy tanks.
I haven't read any good historical literature on ground warfare in ETO, but maybe someone here has.
-
I'm still fairly new, maybe someone can advise me on this. What frustrates me most about tank battles is that I can land 2, 3, sometimes 4 shots on an enemy and not destroy him but I get destroyed with 1 round from him. I can't get enough perk pts to drive anything but a panzer normally, and when I do roll out in a perked gv, I get killed right away from someone who's camped the spawn. Noobs like me stand no chance.
-
You need to hit something vital. It's the same difference as poking a hole thru someone's cockpit/canopy, and actually hitting the pilot.
If you suspect a spawn is camped, roll a "recon" GV first. Don't roll a tiger.... Like you wouldn't roll a B29 from an airfield you suspect is capped.
-
niccxx: there are some posts on this board on where to hit various tanks. Here are some suggestions:
M4 and T34 from the front: hit the curved part below the glacis (sloped front plate). Don't try to hit the turret unless it is pointed away from you, i.e. you are hitting the side armor of the turret.
M4 from the side: hit the side of the hull or turret, not the tracks/wheels.
T34 from the side: hit the side of the turret or the tracks.
Panzer from the front: hit the turret. From the side hit anything.
Tiger from the front: very difficult no matter what you hit unless you are extremely close range. If the Tiger doesn't see you, wait until he rotates his turret away then hit the side of the turret.
In order to make these precise hits you must learn to estimate range. Here's a tip that could help (until they make changes in the sights): if a Panzer is side on and the length of the hull is equal to the length of the tick mark in the sight, he's at about 1200 range. If head on and the width is about 1/2 the tick mark he's 1200. If the width is equal the the tick mark, he's at 600, and so on. The other tanks are similar as they are about the same size. You can always calibrate offline for each tank if you want to get picky.
-
Regarding clutter and cover for tanks. Real ground, even the plains of Kursk, aren't entirely flat. There are little high points and low points and erosion features. In addition to giving hull down positions they also limit sight distance. AH is a bit hampered in simulating this because terrain polygons are very coarse: 0.5mi x 0.5mi x 0.7mi triangles (the actual polygon tiles, not the little glued on mounds). This makes sight distances in AH really long, ca 1/2 a mile, if there are no hedges/trees/mounds.
Although it's not a vote, I, personally, would not enjoy long range tank battles with no clutter and nowhere to hide. Being blown away immediately by a Tiger siting 3K away doesn't sound fun to me, nor does being on the other end. Maneuvering doesn't really help unless there is cover: it's easy to hit moving tanks even at 3K ranges. Without cover, choke points, and ambush spots, what's the point, other than spawn camping in a Tiger? Note that ambushing does not mean siting in one spot forever: as soon as you get your first kill you've given away your position (if only to the guy you killed) and you have to reposition to another ambush spot. During that move you are vulnerable to ambush yourself.
-
Random little villages would really be ideal from a gameplay pov (dunno about feasibility).
(http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s58/tapakeg/urb/village.jpg)
(http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s58/tapakeg/urb/takayama-hida-folk-village-5-580x.jpg)
If there was a way to lego bits of them into varying wholes, kind of like at the City area, it might be possible to have more than just the same few generic village permutations scattered in the country side.. Or they could be one-piece non-permutated, and only at most half a dozen different ones total, if they were as well made as the present town layout.
-
I'm still fairly new, maybe someone can advise me on this. What frustrates me most about tank battles is that I can land 2, 3, sometimes 4 shots on an enemy and not destroy him but I get destroyed with 1 round from him. I can't get enough perk pts to drive anything but a panzer normally, and when I do roll out in a perked gv, I get killed right away from someone who's camped the spawn. Noobs like me stand no chance.
First advise is NEVER up a high perked tank in a camped spawn. If the spawn is camped I like upping the T34-85 or the M4A3(76W). Both have fast moving turrents. The M4(76W) shoots like a machine gun because it reloads so quick.
Second, understand sometimes a spawn is so camped that you just need to find another fight and come back later to see if it has cleared out a bit.
Third, the lag between you and the player you are shooting at makes a difference as to if you are going to get a one shot kill. Location of the hit is important, but I have found the lag is the deciding factor. I have on many occasions killed someone with one shot for them to re-spawn and all of a sudden I can not kill them in five shots even though I am hitting them in the exact same spot as the previous kill.
Fourth, you also need to understand that some players are such good shots you are only going to get one, maybe two shots. This is frustrating when you are new, but hang in there you will learn to range, but like flying you are going to die a lot.
Fifth, if you did not know, you need to set your views in a tank just like you would in a plane. You also need to have your controls set up where you can jump from one position to another with ease.
Sixth, to get some tank perks, just run some resupply M3's to bases that need it. It takes some time, but you will slowly gain some perks.
Just some of my suggestions, hope they help.
Fred
-
Perhaps you guys are playing in the wrong "tank town". ;)
(http://img576.imageshack.us/img576/9089/sefv.jpg) (http://img576.imageshack.us/i/sefv.jpg/)
-
....why tank towns are empty......
I can tell you why. You can't have a tank battle without air cover. Well... you can't win a tank battle with out air support. Tanks and other armoured vehicles are vulnerable to attack from the air for several reasons. One is that they are easily detectable, especially obvious if they are moving. A moving tank produces a lot of heat, noise and dust. Airborne threats can be countered in several ways. One is air supremacy. This is what the United States relies on most, which is demonstrated by their distinct lack of effective short-range, mobile air defence vehicles to accompany armoured units. Most other countries accompany their armoured forces with highly mobile self-propelled anti-aircraft guns. Attack planes live to drop bombs on tanks.... you may not like it, but it's what they do, without CAP over your formations it is going to a bad day.
CAVALRY<------- 22 years in tanks.... just about all of them hiding from planes. :airplane: