Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: SmokinLoon on April 26, 2011, 10:39:30 PM
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I wish to give HTC a HUUUGE :aok for removing the F3 capability from the Il-2, AND for recognizing that it is not a bomber but instead an aircraft designed and built for "direct fire support for infantry".
There is a reason for the limited view in an Il-2: more armor and less glass. No other aircraft can take the AA punishment like the Il-2, and the Il-2 should have a worse pilot view because of it. Just stop and look at all the extra armor surrounding the pilot. The F3 mode in the Il-2 enabled it to do far more than it was ever able to in WWII. Job well done for removing the F3 view for the Il-2, HTC!!! :salute
I think it just made the Hurricane IID more valuable. :D
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At least we don't have to worry about people spraying their taters 1.5K out in F3 mode. A worthy fix, IMO.
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+1. The hurri2D was quite a hangar queen, we'll see what happens now
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The hurri2D will be the same hangar queen as before :old:
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The hurri2D will be the same hangar queen as before :old:
Agreed. The Il-2 is vastly more effective. I never used F3 mode and I always found the Il-2 to be much more potent than the Hurri IId.
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Hurri IID was even a hangar queen back in time when it was the only plane capable of killing a dreaded Tiger when ords were down on a field ;)
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I think that the angle required for the shells to penetrate the armor I easier to find in a hurricane.
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I think that the angle required for the shells to penetrate the armor I easier to find in a hurricane.
Compared to the Il-2, you have a lot less of them and with a ROF effectively reducing you to single shot fire. In the Il-2 you can afford to spray and walk your fire onto the target. And asig that weren't enough: The NS-37 is the much more powerful gun too.
With the Hurri you have to use precision, in the il-2 you can blast away.
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The NS-37 is the much more powerful gun too.
I don't know about that. I've looked at the comparative pictures of the different shells and the Vickers S 40mm seems a far bigger shell. I know this doesn't means anything, but likewise shooting buildings is a poor method of comparison for AP shells.
As a sidenote the guns on the hurri are synchronised, making a hit with a good angle almost a sure kill. I like the fact that both choices have they advantages, while before it was a no brainer.
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In real life the Il-2s 37mm guns were effectively single shot as well. The unsynchronised recoil forces would spray shells all over the place if a long burst was fired. It was apparently so bad the pilot's head would be bashed from side to side against the cockpit. AH's version has too little dispersion IMO.
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I wish to give HTC a HUUUGE :aok for removing the F3 capability from the Il-2, AND for recognizing that it is not a bomber but instead an aircraft designed and built for "direct fire support for infantry".
There is a reason for the limited view in an Il-2: more armor and less glass. No other aircraft can take the AA punishment like the Il-2, and the Il-2 should have a worse pilot view because of it. Just stop and look at all the extra armor surrounding the pilot. The F3 mode in the Il-2 enabled it to do far more than it was ever able to in WWII. Job well done for removing the F3 view for the Il-2, HTC!!! :salute
I think it just made the Hurricane IID more valuable. :D
Well, without F3 i think it's only fair to add cumulative bomb payload. Recognizing that armored GV's destroyed by IL2's were bombed is also important.
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Agreed. The Il-2 is vastly more effective. I never used F3 mode and I always found the Il-2 to be much more potent than the Hurri IId.
Respectfully... I think you are full of schlitz. You "never" used F3 mode in the Il-2??? Me personaly, I used the F3 mode all the time because it is no secret that the pilot view, at least for defensive purposes, is quite lacking. There is a reason the Soviets added a rear gunner. I switched to the pilot view when I lined up on a target, that is it. I'd be willing to bet that %90 of the players did at least that, I know some did the F3 mode %100 of the time. With the F3 view disabled, the Il-2 will be a sitting duck for fighters, as they should be.
FWIW, the Vickers S cannons are only slightly less effective round vs round against the NS-37. The NS37 fired a lighter faster projectile while the Vickers S relied on the raw weight of the projectile. I have the exact info on my PC at home, perhaps Loosche can post it. I know he has it because he is where I got the comparing info from. :)
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Uh... WRONG...
Those vickers S-guns are utter and TOTAL crap.
I've unloaded them into a single panzer before, making dozens of attacks top down, seeing hits almost every time (missing maybe 1 or 2 double-shots out of all 30 rounds total -- both guns fire same time), and not even smoked the panzer. I'm talking thin metal top of the turret, I'm talking top engine deck, I'm talking rear angle shallow engine hits...
The gun is a total piece of feces, and NOWHERE near the lethal hitting power of the NS37.
NS37 is the MOST powerful gun in the game, in terms of effectiveness. Its AP penetration is second best on any tank killer in WW2. The most lethal would be the BK guns on the Ju87G.
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I wish to give HTC a HUUUGE :aok for removing the F3 capability from the Il-2, AND for recognizing that it is not a bomber but instead an aircraft designed and built for "direct fire support for infantry".
Non issue for me. Could not hit squat in F3 mode period.
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Uh... WRONG...
Those vickers S-guns are utter and TOTAL crap.
I've unloaded them into a single panzer before, making dozens of attacks top down, seeing hits almost every time (missing maybe 1 or 2 double-shots out of all 30 rounds total -- both guns fire same time), and not even smoked the panzer. I'm talking thin metal top of the turret, I'm talking top engine deck, I'm talking rear angle shallow engine hits...
The gun is a total piece of feces, and NOWHERE near the lethal hitting power of the NS37.
NS37 is the MOST powerful gun in the game, in terms of effectiveness. Its AP penetration is second best on any tank killer in WW2. The most lethal would be the BK guns on the Ju87G.
I know a good many people will dissagree with you about the effectiveness of the Vickers S. It is very rare I dont get at least t1 ank kill per sorte. Obviously the Il-2 is much easier to kill tanks with, but the rate of fire and volume of fire lends to the bulk of that. There is only about %15-20 difference in the destructuve power of the 2 projectiles in AH, both vs OBJ and armor.
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Respectfully... I think you are full of schlitz. You "never" used F3 mode in the Il-2???
I almost never use F3 in bombers either. Certainly I don't in the Il-2 as it kills immersion.
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Uh... WRONG...
Those vickers S-guns are utter and TOTAL crap.
They aren't. They are just difficult to employ without some practice due to low rate of fire and short ammo clip, forcing the player to shoot precicely from close range & rather steep angles to make his shots count.
But in terms of ammo penetration, there is no tank in AH that the Hurri D can't destroy. Back when the Il-2 only had the 23mm gun and there was no B-25H yet, only the Hurricane D could kill a Tiger without ords. It was my main tankbusting ride for a long time for a good reason. The cannons are powerful enough to take on any tank we currently have in AH.
I have the exact info on my PC at home, perhaps Loosche can post it. I know he has it because he is where I got the comparing info from. :)
According to Anthony G Williams (http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/tankbusters.htm) the NS-37 fires a 760g projectile at 880 m/s, resulting in a muzzle energy of 294 kJoule. The Vickers S shoots a 1,130g projectile at 615 m/s, giving it a muzzle energy of 214 kJoule.
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Uh... WRONG...
Those vickers S-guns are utter and TOTAL crap.
I've unloaded them into a single panzer before, making dozens of attacks top down, seeing hits almost every time (missing maybe 1 or 2 double-shots out of all 30 rounds total -- both guns fire same time), and not even smoked the panzer. I'm talking thin metal top of the turret, I'm talking top engine deck, I'm talking rear angle shallow engine hits...
The gun is a total piece of feces, and NOWHERE near the lethal hitting power of the NS37.
NS37 is the MOST powerful gun in the game, in terms of effectiveness. Its AP penetration is second best on any tank killer in WW2. The most lethal would be the BK guns on the Ju87G.
That Panzer must have had sups nearby or you had a rubber bullet effect goin atm, because I've destroyed a Panzer with just 2 shots. Same attack method you used, coming in a bit high and aiming for it's engine/turret.
I don't mind the fact that the IL2 doesn't have the F3 mode. I did use it, but only to spot enemy GV's and keep an eye out for enemy fighters. The moment I'd spot a gv though, I'd switch back to pilot to make my attack. Now you will have to rely on others to escort you, seeing as the horrible view of the IL2 will keep you without a clue. Definitely will make it interesting.
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In terms of damage vs OBJ, the NS37 does 17.1 and the Vickers S does 14. While the the way in which the game registers damage to OBJ and player controlled vehicles is different there is a corelation.
The real world differences is about %25-%27 in kenetic energy. Would you rather get shot with a .30-06 or a .45-70?
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Never used F3 myself as it just seemed cheap and to much like a PS or X-box game. I really didn't use the IL much at all for killing tanks preferring my beloved Yak 9T instead. :)
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I really didn't use the IL much at all for killing tanks preferring my beloved Yak 9T instead. :)
And how effective is the Yak on a Tiger, Sherman VC or T-34/76? ;)
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And how effective is the Yak on a Tiger, Sherman VC or T-34/76? ;)
maybe enough to steal the kill from the people that do actual damage :D
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maybe enough to steal the kill from the people that do actual damage :D
Almost right. I've found that about 2 or 3 rounds placed into the engine of a tank will result in a stalled tank sitting there smoking like a beacon for the friendly tanks to come kill usually resulting in the YaK getting the kill.
I used to be really good at this but I'm a lil out of practice or my old X-52 is getting a lil sloppy now and I can't seem to aim as well as I once did.
BTW everything I've ever heard over the years about kills is the game supposed to award the kill to the guy who does the most damage so in that case my Yak wins. :P
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I must admit that I'm really sad to see the Il-2's external view go away. To me F3 didn't belong to "bombers," but to "aircraft with more than one set of eyes." I'll be the first to say the Il-2 is NOT a bomber, but I will miss F3. That said, I very rarely flew the Il-2 as an Attacker either; it was my main base defense fighter with the 23mm loadout. That school bus turns very well on the down-slope and is unmatched versus the HO monkeys (it lacks in firepower compared to the 110, but it's very well armored except the radiator). And, yes, I'll be the first to admit that I take EVERY HO opportunity I can get while fighting in the Il-2 as well...if you're dumb enough to face anti-tank cannons on purpose, you deserve it. :D
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I must admit that I'm really sad to see the Il-2's external view go away. To me F3 didn't belong to "bombers," but to "aircraft with more than one set of eyes."
You can still use the second "set of eyes" in the IL2.... hit "2" and look from the rear gun position just like in real life....
F3 veiw should only be re-enabled for the IL2 if someone can provide us concrete proof that the Russians towed the 2nd crewman approx 100 feet behind and above the tail of the IL2 and that he actually had control of the aircraft from there.
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You can still use the second "set of eyes" in the IL2.... hit "2" and look from the rear gun position just like in real life....
I'd like to see someone use fighter maneuvers from there. Even switching back and forth, it levels you out when you move.
F3 view was described as the pilot being connected by radio to his crewmembers. Using a troll as absurd asF3 veiw should only be re-enabled for the IL2 if someone can provide us concrete proof that the Russians towed the 2nd crewman approx 100 feet behind and above the tail of the IL2 and that he actually had control of the aircraft from there.
is just using the same argument used against F3 in general (B-17s, B24s, G4Ms, et al didn't use towed cameras either), so I don't see why it's specifically relevant here.
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F3 was disabled in Il2s primarily because of the way Ghi learned to exploit it.
Making it impossible to shoot in F3 mode would arguably have been a better solution to Ghi's antics, but I'm kind of happy with the Il2s as they are now.
Also...get real...the rear-gunner's input is never going to be anywhere near as useful for manuevering as the pilot's own eyes being on the bandit, which is exactly what F3 gave you.
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Also...get real...the rear-gunner's input is never going to be anywhere near as useful for manuevering as the pilot's own eyes being on the bandit, which is exactly what F3 gave you.
That's correct. I don't feel like reviewing the arguments made in the "get rid of F3 mode" threads, but they can't be searched for at the moment either. Suffice it to say that I know it was flawed but I think it was the best compromise and am sad to see it go.
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Uh... WRONG...
Those vickers S-guns are utter and TOTAL crap.
I've unloaded them into a single panzer before, making dozens of attacks top down, seeing hits almost every time (missing maybe 1 or 2 double-shots out of all 30 rounds total -- both guns fire same time), and not even smoked the panzer. I'm talking thin metal top of the turret, I'm talking top engine deck, I'm talking rear angle shallow engine hits...
The gun is a total piece of feces, and NOWHERE near the lethal hitting power of the NS37.
NS37 is the MOST powerful gun in the game, in terms of effectiveness. Its AP penetration is second best on any tank killer in WW2. The most lethal would be the BK guns on the Ju87G.
Sombody said it....we need the G model Stuka. I would come back for that one.
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damn time to start flying the a20 again
There was nothing quite like hitting some one 1.5k away and seeing his wing fall off.
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I'd like to see someone use fighter maneuvers from there.
I'd like to see anyone fly a real IL2 (or any plane for that matter) from anywhere other than the pilot's seat. This is and should be a combat flight simulator, not a cheesy arcade game. If it's cheesy arcade game you want, a lot of used Atari game consoles are for sale on ebay.
F3 view was described as the pilot being connected by radio to his crewmembers. Using a troll as absurd asis just using the same argument used against F3 in general (B-17s, B24s, G4Ms, et al didn't use towed cameras either), so I don't see why it's specifically relevant here.
I have no problem with F3 in bombers, or attack..... as an observation tool. The compromise should be all weapons are diabled in F3 mode, just as when a bomber is on the ground.
It's no troll. It's a +1 for keeping this game more accurate and less "gamey."
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They aren't. They are just difficult to employ without some practice due to low rate of fire and short ammo clip, forcing the player to shoot precicely from close range & rather steep angles to make his shots count.
But in terms of ammo penetration, there is no tank in AH that the Hurri D can't destroy. Back when the Il-2 only had the 23mm gun and there was no B-25H yet, only the Hurricane D could kill a Tiger without ords. It was my main tankbusting ride for a long time for a good reason. The cannons are powerful enough to take on any tank we currently have in AH.
Sorry, but must dissagree with you on the 23mm not being able to kill a tiger in game, online or offline. It takes me 2 passes to do it, but a tiger can be killed with the 23mm from the IL-2.
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+1
Thanks for removing F3 from the IL-2.
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I must admit that I'm really sad to see the Il-2's external view go away. To me F3 didn't belong to "bombers," but to "aircraft with more than one set of eyes." I'll be the first to say the Il-2 is NOT a bomber, but I will miss F3. That said, I very rarely flew the Il-2 as an Attacker either; it was my main base defense fighter with the 23mm loadout. That school bus turns very well on the down-slope and is unmatched versus the HO monkeys (it lacks in firepower compared to the 110, but it's very well armored except the radiator). And, yes, I'll be the first to admit that I take EVERY HO opportunity I can get while fighting in the Il-2 as well...if you're dumb enough to face anti-tank cannons on purpose, you deserve it. :D
+1
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damn time to start flying the a20 again
There was nothing quite like hitting some one 1.5k away and seeing his wing fall off.
And you can't do that now because?
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I have no problem with F3 in bombers, or attack..... as an observation tool. The compromise should be all weapons are diabled in F3 mode, just as when a bomber is on the ground.
That's a pretty good idea!
- oldman
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That's a pretty good idea!
- oldman
Would have been my choice as well.
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Would have been my choice as well.
Still exploitable and unless they were actually shooting from F3 also, this definitly solves the issue.
The way I thought it worked before was fly in F3, watch plane come zooming in, negative G as they overshoot, F1, pull up and spray.
wrongway
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Just came to me head when I was flying a 110G2 earlier, the plane is a two seater as well and never got the F3 view :noid
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Just came to me head when I was flying a 110G2 earlier, the plane is a two seater as well and never got the F3 view :noid
I will do it again then. :bhead
Rear view of 110 from pilots position set at optimal view.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/ahss54.jpg)
Il-2 rear view pilots position set at optimal view.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/ahss53.jpg)
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it has the armor to go with...the 110G2 is a paper plane, and the main argument here is that the tailgunner is an extra set of eyes, thus giving access to F3 view.
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krusty whenever im GVing and i see even a single Hurri up, i fear for my life... Hurri IIC hurts enough but i dread seeing that slow Hurri IID with the 40s...
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gents... this is exactly why I have always vouched for giving an aircraft a particular view based on its individual characteristics, and NOT based on a broad classification.
Currently, all "bombers" are given the F3 capability regardless of which views they can or can not actually see realistically. I strongly agree with HTC removing the IL-2's F3 capability, but I think there are other aircraft out there that should be reevaluated as well. I suggest starting from scratch and figure out which aircraft should actually be afforded the luxury of the F3 capability by virtue of what they could actually have seen in the actual aircraft.
Aircraft without a ventral turret, or a low rear turret should not really be able to see that position.
If HTC could program it so the F3 was only available in the turret mode and not pilot mode... that may lend to a best of both worlds scenario. *shrugs*
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Should have F3:
B-17G
B-24J
B-25
B-26
B-29
Ki-67
Ju88
Lancaster
G4M1
Questionable as to whether they should have F3 or not:
TBM-3
Very questionable whether they should have F3 or not:
B5N2
D3A1
SBD-5
Ju87
Boston
A-20G
Il-2
Mosquito Mk XVI
Should not have F3, period:
Ar234
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Uh... WRONG...
Those vickers S-guns are utter and TOTAL crap.
I've unloaded them into a single panzer before, making dozens of attacks top down, seeing hits almost every time (missing maybe 1 or 2 double-shots out of all 30 rounds total -- both guns fire same time), and not even smoked the panzer. I'm talking thin metal top of the turret, I'm talking top engine deck, I'm talking rear angle shallow engine hits...
The gun is a total piece of feces, and NOWHERE near the lethal hitting power of the NS37.
Then you must really suck.
Hurri IID was a regilar tank busting ride for me before the advent of the IL-II and it will blow any tank in the game out. THe most you need to take out a Panzer is two rounds.
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Should not have F3, period:
Ar234
But as long as the periscope is not working, it must retain F3.
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Should have F3:
B-17G
B-24J
B-25
B-26
B-29
Ki-67
Ju88
Lancaster
G4M1
Questionable as to whether they should have F3 or not:
TBM-3
Very questionable whether they should have F3 or not:
B5N2
D3A1
SBD-5
Ju87
Boston
A-20G
Il-2
Mosquito Mk XVI
Should not have F3, period:
Ar234
If the eyes of a crew member can not see an area by virtue of his typical seated position in an aircraft, then how can can a case be made for an aircraft to have that view? Of course, there could always be an argument based on if the gunner can move about more freely. Case in point is the USAAF A20 vs the British RAF Boston. The A20 dorsal gunner is enclosed and the Boston gunner can actually stick his head out and look over the edges of the aircraft. Just how deep to we want to go? Also, the Mossi B Mk 16 vs the Mossi FB Mk 6, the exact same view but 1 is afforded the view and the other is now. Forget roles, etc, think of the *actual view* it the aircraft had.
BTW... the TBM has both a top and bottom rear gunner. IMO, it should have F3. The AR-234... questionable. The Ar234 would be like looking through a tank sight, just how much could it have seen using that thing? Looshy is right though, as long as the sight does not work it needs to have a way to use the guns.
on and on and on.... :)
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F-3 mode in the IL-2 being gone is fine by me but how about some better views from the cockpit. If the IL-2 is going to fly like a fighter it needs the view of one.
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F-3 mode in the IL-2 being gone is fine by me but how about some better views from the cockpit. If the IL-2 is going to fly like a fighter it needs the view of one.
Tell that the guys who designed the plane back in 1939 ;)
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But as long as the periscope is not working, it must retain F3.
Speaking of that periscope I agree :aok & have more info I will send you sooner or later.
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I welcome the removal of F3 from the IL-2.
I can also sympathise and support the more easier use of fellow crew members views to aid SA. I would welcome the idea of being able to set the Hat POV's from any cockpit/pilots position in the game to include views from other crew positions.
This would have to be enabled without the ac reverting to some sort of auto flight mode when the pilot looks out thru the crew members eyes.
So when setting up the pilot view he enters some sort of area of the clip board (related to the ac he is in) and can combine pilot and gunner views when setting up his pilot hat views.
an example
for the IL-2 pilot
Cockpit ~ look forward (POV1 centred)
Cockpit ~ look left (POV1 left)
Cockpit ~ look right (POV1 right)
Cockpit ~ look forward/up (POV1 up)
Rear gunner ~ look forward (POV1 down) {"forward" view for the rear gunner is to the rear}
You then mix the quarter views in to suit.
and add the up/down views you want for POV2.
This way SA is still quicker than human verbal communication could support yet not so (IMO) "gamey" as a 360 degree external view.
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I welcome the removal of F3 from the IL-2.
I can also sympathise and support the more easier use of fellow crew members views to aid SA. I would welcome the idea of being able to set the Hat POV's from any cockpit/pilots position in the game to include views from other crew positions.
This would have to be enabled without the ac reverting to some sort of auto flight mode when the pilot looks out thru the crew members eyes.
So when setting up the pilot view he enters some sort of area of the clip board (related to the ac he is in) and can combine pilot and gunner views when setting up his pilot hat views.
an example
for the IL-2 pilot
Cockpit ~ look forward (POV1 centred)
Cockpit ~ look left (POV1 left)
Cockpit ~ look right (POV1 right)
Cockpit ~ look forward/up (POV1 up)
Rear gunner ~ look forward (POV1 down) {"forward" view for the rear gunner is to the rear}
You then mix the quarter views in to suit.
and add the up/down views you want for POV2.
This way SA is still quicker than human verbal communication could support yet not so (IMO) "gamey" as a 360 degree external view.
I could live with that. :aok
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I welcome the removal of F3 from the IL-2.
I can also sympathise and support the more easier use of fellow crew members views to aid SA. I would welcome the idea of being able to set the Hat POV's from any cockpit/pilots position in the game to include views from other crew positions.
This would have to be enabled without the ac reverting to some sort of auto flight mode when the pilot looks out thru the crew members eyes.
So when setting up the pilot view he enters some sort of area of the clip board (related to the ac he is in) and can combine pilot and gunner views when setting up his pilot hat views.
an example
for the IL-2 pilot
Cockpit ~ look forward (POV1 centred)
Cockpit ~ look left (POV1 left)
Cockpit ~ look right (POV1 right)
Cockpit ~ look forward/up (POV1 up)
Rear gunner ~ look forward (POV1 down) {"forward" view for the rear gunner is to the rear}
You then mix the quarter views in to suit.
and add the up/down views you want for POV2.
This way SA is still quicker than human verbal communication could support yet not so (IMO) "gamey" as a 360 degree external view.
The same thought just entered my mind. Now I don't have to type it. :aok
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Maybe Hitech could lengthen the invisible bounding box in the cockpit that you move your around head in... That way, you could clip backwards into the rear gunner seat and set any of your rear views there too.
Then, Hitech wouldn't have to modify the view system we have now (by adding in the separate gunner's views), and we'd still only also get views that the rear gunner could see too (which is better than the 360 floating hover-cam that we have now). This would only really work for the IL-2 and the 110, I guess, since they'd have a seamless bounding box from the pilot to the gunner...
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I just took up the Il-2 for the first time since the update.... the pilot views are not bad at all. It is hardly different than looking out an F4U. Monkey around with the pilot views and the panic should go away. ;)
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I just took up the Il-2 for the first time since the update.... the pilot views are not bad at all. It is hardly different than looking out an F4U. Monkey around with the pilot views and the panic should go away. ;)
Maybe as compared to the default view on a Corsair. "Monkey" around with the Corsair views and there is virtually zero obstruction. The worst rear views belong to the Hellcat and the Airacobra, (after the Il-2 that is) IMO. That said, since the Il-2 isn't really a bomber, it shouldn't have F3.
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I don't know about that. I've looked at the comparative pictures of the different shells and the Vickers S 40mm seems a far bigger shell. I know this doesn't means anything, but likewise shooting buildings is a poor method of comparison for AP shells.
As a sidenote the guns on the hurri are synchronised, making a hit with a good angle almost a sure kill. I like the fact that both choices have they advantages, while before it was a no brainer.
Im probably wrong, but I think the difference in the 37mm and the Hurri's 40mm pertans to not only muzzle velocity but the type of shell. Like I said, I am probably wrong, but I think the 40mm does not have the same Armor penetrating Capability as the 37mm. Regardless of how big the shell is, comes down to the warhead on the round...please tell me if Im wrong because I probably am lol
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Quite so.
A .357 magnum has more power than a .45 ACP. It can probably punch through 2x or 3x as much as a .45, yet is a smaller caliber.
It's all about the real round in real life. They have different capabilities, and are modeled to match those capabilities.
The 40mm Vickers round in this game sucks in comparison to the NS37 on the IL2 with AP rounds. There is no comparison as to which is better, IMO. Night and day.
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Quite so.
A .357 magnum has more power than a .45 ACP. It can probably punch through 2x or 3x as much as a .45, yet is a smaller caliber.
It's all about the real round in real life. They have different capabilities, and are modeled to match those capabilities.
The 40mm Vickers round in this game sucks in comparison to the NS37 on the IL2 with AP rounds. There is no comparison as to which is better, IMO. Night and day.
So would you rather get shot by a .45 ACP FMJ or a .357 Magnum FMJ? Either way, shot placement is key.
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I don't buy that. I've landed enough perfect hits with the Hurr2D to realize the guns suck even when you have the perfect angle, the perfect spot, you see the fireballs, and you get no result.
My personal experience was that in all my attempts to kill things with the hurr2D, it's far more effective to just take 2 bombs instead. The penetration power is rubbish! Rubbish, I say!!
IL2 guns are far better. The ROF helps, yes, but overall much more effective.
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I don't buy that. I've landed enough perfect hits with the Hurr2D to realize the guns suck even when you have the perfect angle, the perfect spot, you see the fireballs, and you get no result.
If you have "perfect" angle angle and spot, the tank will go boom. No exception. The Il-2 with the 37mm is superior, but there is no tank in game that can withstand the Vickers S gun. The challenge is just to get that "perfect hit" with the slow ROF and limited ammo.
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Next time you take up an Il-2, Krusty, burn off all but 30 rounds of 37mm then engage enemy tanks, see how may tank kills you get. ;)
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Interesting point. Worth revisiting at least offline against the GV drones on my part.
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Just for entertainment: My very first try ever in a Hurri D vs the new Panther, offline. http://www.mediafire.com/file/q696vyxdpvu7a7t/film437%20killing%20a%20panther.ahf (177K).
Obviously the tank didn't know my guns were utter crap ;)
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I say again... and Loooshy has the video to back me up...
Shot placement is key.
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Hey now, I'm not exactly a bad shot. When I say I unloaded an entire clip from a hurr2d into a single panzer, I mean I got what looked like kill/disable shots almost every time I made a run. I'm not talking hitting the corners or the treads or the front plate, I mean rear engine deck and/or straight down into the thin upper turret armor.
He kept plugging away, firing at other GVs. I hit him at least 12 times (double shots every time) out of 15 total. When a GV finished him off I got the kill. I know I hit because of that.
So I'm not just saying this because I can't hit. I can discipline myself to make a good run, fire, and pull up. I've got that much skill, at least.
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I'm not sure if you've seen this before, a demonstration of the Vickers' hitting power:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ix5xN8hlGLo