Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: iron650 on May 28, 2011, 10:26:10 AM

Title: M8
Post by: iron650 on May 28, 2011, 10:26:10 AM
The M8 isn't useful, but it can cause damage. Although I wasted about 30 rounds my 37mm destroyed a T34/85's tank treads and then 3 more rounds in the back of the turret killed it. Several rounds including MG rounds bounced off the side of the tank until I took my chance in a town. The town let me get close and... ping ping ping. Weak thing vs. most armored vehicle. I wonder how.
Title: Re: M8
Post by: AWwrgwy on May 28, 2011, 10:32:01 AM
AP in the turret, if it doesn't bounce, then HE in the treads.

Works best against Whirbles and Osties.

My worst gv experience was being surrounded by four M-8s in a Tiger. Never got a gun on them and got 37mm'd to death.

The M-8s strength is it's speed.

Try the M-3/75. Bigger gun.

 :devil


wrongway
Title: Re: M8
Post by: gyrene81 on May 28, 2011, 10:39:14 AM
now you have a fairly good idea how the british armored car crews felt when they ran into panzers...   :lol

just imagine being in a slow moving lightly armored tank with a 37mm main gun running into a sherman...canned sushi.
Title: Re: M8
Post by: iron650 on May 28, 2011, 02:20:16 PM
I read something about an M8 defeating a Tiger.  :lol The Tiger's back was hit repeatedly and the Tiger lit in flames. That was recorded too.
Title: Re: M8
Post by: Blooz on May 28, 2011, 02:25:18 PM
You'll be screaming for a "Puma" next.....


(http://www.bringans.com/images/hasegawa/MT52.jpg)
Title: Re: M8
Post by: iron650 on May 28, 2011, 02:50:47 PM
The Puma is interesting with its autocannon. Anyone else have any interesting M8 stories? I tried disabling a Sherman 76 but after 3 rounds it found me.
Title: Re: M8
Post by: AWwrgwy on May 28, 2011, 03:34:24 PM
The Puma is interesting with its autocannon. Anyone else have any interesting M8 stories? I tried disabling a Sherman 76 but after 3 rounds it found me.

They're best versus FlakPanzers because you can turret them from 1.5-2k out. Sometimes they give up and tower. Free kill. The rest of the time they chase you around and flatten your tires with their hull gun.

What you need to do is hit them in the tracks with HE as fast as you can. Preferable both, because even tracked they will still try and spin the hull gun on you.

It's very annoying that a 7.62mm machine gun can be such trouble, even to a thin skinned M-8.

Do the same thing with Panzers. AP to the turret, it just doesn't always work so well, then HE to the tracks.

Anything else I just shoot in the rear and hope for the best. Sometimes you can get the engine. Then you just have to be lucky at getting enough rounds into them before the turret gets turned around.

I've never been good at the circle and fire thing that so many have success with.


wrongway
Title: Re: M8
Post by: iron650 on May 28, 2011, 04:15:01 PM
I just take AP expecting to see enemy gvs out. I thought HE was for buildings and AP for gvs.

It's always a fun experience in an M8. Until... the turret slowly swivels your way.
Title: Re: M8
Post by: GNucks on May 28, 2011, 04:23:11 PM
I just take AP expecting to see enemy gvs out. I thought HE was for buildings and AP for gvs.

It's always a fun experience in an M8. Until... the turret slowly swivels your way.

Most of my kills in the T-34/85 were from using HE rounds exclusively. They were from so far away I don't even know what I was shooting at. I can't land AP hits from so far so I used a high volume of HE utilizing it's splash damage.
Title: Re: M8
Post by: iron650 on May 28, 2011, 06:05:27 PM
My AP can't hit from afar but when I'm within 8K of range it's a different story. Also, I tried impersonating the M8 vs. Tiger and it didn't work at all. Ping bounce, ping bounce, ping bounce.
Title: Re: M8
Post by: W7LPNRICK on May 28, 2011, 06:11:16 PM
I killed a panzer in an M-16 by running in circles, out running the turret and firing the entire time. I bet I used 1/2 to 3/4 of the ammo. Different but similar.
Title: Re: M8
Post by: SmokinLoon on May 28, 2011, 06:34:25 PM
Used in conjunction with a group of tanks, the M8 is at its best.  If it is used as a scout/harrasser it can draw fire and report positions to allied tanks.  I dont care what tank you are in or how far away the enemy M8 Greyhound is, if it is pelting you with rounds it is a bit unnerving. 

The best way to defeat an M8 moving at 50+ mph is to use HE against it.  Just get close and you blow tires, damage the engine, or damage the turret.

When used alone it doesnt really offer much of anything except speed.  It has to be almost point blank for its AP to work vs other tanks and its HE is about as worthless as bewbies on a boar.  I see lots of players hop into the M8 to race off from a spawn point to save a ransacked base but they fail to realize that if the turret gets damaged it has no guns.       

Title: Re: M8
Post by: iron650 on May 28, 2011, 06:43:58 PM
Hey several rounds of HE from the M8 is enough to get an enemy tread. Also, a Panther after being pelted will go too. I've pelted a T34/85 in the back of his turret with 3 AP rounds and BAM he's gone. In offline you'll be amazed how many shells you need to get the Panther, Panzer and T34/75 (from back).
Title: Re: M8
Post by: Karnak on May 28, 2011, 09:23:38 PM
M8s kill Panzer IVs just fine.  One AP round to the back of the turret, two to the back of the hull = dead Panzer IV.
Title: Re: M8
Post by: gyrene81 on May 28, 2011, 09:59:43 PM
M8s kill Panzer IVs just fine.  One AP round to the back of the turret, two to the back of the hull = dead Panzer IV.
that's just wrong...37mm ap round shouldn't have any detrimental effect anywhere on a panzer turret except maybe at very close range on a hatch.
Title: Re: M8
Post by: Karnak on May 28, 2011, 10:23:42 PM
that's just wrong...37mm ap round shouldn't have any detrimental effect anywhere on a panzer turret except maybe at very close range on a hatch.
Has to be close range, yes, but last time I used the M8 it took just a single hit to the rear of the Panzer IV's turret to disable it.  I got 12 Panzer IVs in one M8 sortie using that tactic once.
Title: Re: M8
Post by: gyrene81 on May 28, 2011, 10:38:10 PM
geez karnak...that's just...not right...

(http://www.achtungpanzer.com/images/iv.jpg)

a 37mm ap round...even a sabot couldn't penetrate the skirt armor...the storage box on the back of the turret...then 30mm of armor plate...no matter what range.
Title: Re: M8
Post by: Karnak on May 29, 2011, 01:14:53 AM
I wonder if AH models anything other than the 30mm of armor?
Title: Re: M8
Post by: gyrene81 on May 29, 2011, 01:31:54 AM
 :headscratch:  maybe it could be possible out to 500 meters or less...standard 37mm m74 ap shell is supposed to be able to penetrate 54/40mm of plate armor so assuming the storage box on the back of the turret is empty and there is nothing to deflect the round, penetrating the back of the turret at 500 yards could happen...just seems a bit "off" if you know what i mean considering the storage boxes held equipment and the skirt armor was intended to take some of the punch out of smaller rounds.
Title: Re: M8
Post by: Karnak on May 29, 2011, 02:06:07 AM
When I use that tactic to kill a Panzer IV it is normally from less than 50 meters, often less than 25.
Title: Re: M8
Post by: iron650 on May 29, 2011, 06:24:29 AM
M8s kill Panzer IVs just fine.  One AP round to the back of the turret, two to the back of the hull = dead Panzer IV.

I think it's point blank to get a Panzer IV. Also, the only place a T34/75 is vunerable to the 37mm is the back of the turret.
Title: Re: M8
Post by: 321BAR on May 29, 2011, 08:34:34 AM
The Pnzr IV skirt armor i don't believe is modeled. it seems to have absolutely no affect against any weapon. i use the M8 and the M-18 lite all the time and always sneak up on panzers, T34s, and now occasionally a panther and kill them. Like karnak said, one to the turret (in any direction, not just the back, then two to the engine housing. POOF! byebye pnzr.

M4s are alot tougher for the M8 for some reason... :headscratch:
Title: Re: M8
Post by: E25280 on May 29, 2011, 02:57:24 PM
The skirt armor was a mere 5mm and was meant to defeat light infantry AT weaponry, like the Soviet anti-tank rifles, by causing the rounds to tumble before hitting the tank itself.  They also were effective in deflecting the blast of shape-charged weapons like bazooka rounds.

Against solid-shot AP projectiles from larger-caliber guns, the skirts were worthless.
Title: Re: M8
Post by: iron650 on May 29, 2011, 07:27:45 PM
I had a delicate duel today against an amtank. We went in circles around a tree until I hit his broadside. Then I killed an amtrack by hitting it's center with a .30 MG. I also got a Panther pelting and circling him to his doom.


Title: Re: M8
Post by: W7LPNRICK on May 29, 2011, 09:27:48 PM
The Panzers I've killed were much closer than 500 ft, in kind of a boom & zoom tactic. I come in fast and close & out turn their turret, then duck behind a bldg. :banana:
Title: Re: M8
Post by: M0nkey_Man on May 29, 2011, 10:46:52 PM
sat about 3 ft from a tiger and peppered him
Title: Re: M8
Post by: iron650 on May 30, 2011, 06:33:13 AM
I have a TnB tactic. I run around them going full speed shooting them. You get only 35mph, but it got the job done. And its normally easy to get a kill because of how their turret tracks. However they can have great motion-prediction skills and kill you. The Panther I mentioned earlier made me stop by aiming behind him so I can't make another run. So, I stopped and pelted.
Title: Re: M8
Post by: 321BAR on May 30, 2011, 11:32:06 AM
The skirt armor was a mere 5mm and was meant to defeat light infantry AT weaponry, like the Soviet anti-tank rifles, by causing the rounds to tumble before hitting the tank itself.  They also were effective in deflecting the blast of shape-charged weapons like bazooka rounds.

Against solid-shot AP projectiles from larger-caliber guns, the skirts were worthless.
they were also meant to force larger rounds to explode before the impact with the actual tank. the 5mm of armor would cause the AP round to explode early causing no harm to the tank.
Title: Re: M8
Post by: Rob52240 on May 30, 2011, 11:35:34 AM
EvilSars who is a bit of a tank expert explained it sorta like Bar was just saying, basically it was reactive armor.
Title: Re: M8
Post by: AWwrgwy on May 30, 2011, 01:47:26 PM
they were also meant to force larger rounds to explode before the impact with the actual tank. the 5mm of armor would cause the AP round to explode early causing no harm to the tank.

AP explodes?


wrongway
Title: Re: M8
Post by: iron650 on May 30, 2011, 01:49:57 PM
AP explodes?


wrongway

yes hit trees with a round (in game)
Title: Re: M8
Post by: Karnak on May 30, 2011, 02:38:18 PM
they were also meant to force larger rounds to explode before the impact with the actual tank. the 5mm of armor would cause the AP round to explode early causing no harm to the tank.
Calling BS on that claim.  If 5mm of armor and an air gap was all it took to stop a 76mm 17lb round, 85mm AP or 88mm AP round tank designs would have been a lot different.
Title: Re: M8
Post by: W7LPNRICK on May 30, 2011, 03:35:44 PM
AP explodes?


wrongway

I think he means loses energy.  :ahand
Title: Re: M8
Post by: W7LPNRICK on May 30, 2011, 03:37:06 PM
Calling BS on that claim.  If 5mm of armor and an air gap was all it took to stop a 76mm 17lb round, 85mm AP or 88mm AP round tank designs would have been a lot different.

we're talking 37mm, not large.  :ahand
Title: Re: M8
Post by: 321BAR on May 30, 2011, 04:56:32 PM
AP explodes?


wrongway
uhh...... yeah? they have shaped charges on the tips concentrating to a powerful explosion fowards. some charges have delays creating the explosion inside the armored unit but i believe no delayed AP charges were used in WWII
Title: Re: M8
Post by: Widewing on May 30, 2011, 05:03:08 PM
that's just wrong...37mm ap round shouldn't have any detrimental effect anywhere on a panzer turret except maybe at very close range on a hatch.

In the real world, at 500 yards, the 37mm AP could penetrate 52mm of armor at 0 degrees, and 43mm at 30 degrees. Thus, if the armor and AP round are modeled accurately, it should penetrate a Mk IV anywhere on the side or rear of the tank at 500 yards or less.

Edit: The above is entirely based upon the tank being within 30 degrees of square relative to the shooter. Just remember that there are almost always some angles that will increase resistance to penetration for a given situation.
Title: Re: M8
Post by: Widewing on May 30, 2011, 05:07:27 PM
they were also meant to force larger rounds to explode before the impact with the actual tank. the 5mm of armor would cause the AP round to explode early causing no harm to the tank.

AP rounds were solid shot in one form or another. Skirts could help defeat HEAT warheads, but were ineffective against AP, APC and utterly useless against tungsten rounds.
Title: Re: M8
Post by: 321BAR on May 30, 2011, 05:13:03 PM
AP rounds were solid shot in one form or another. Skirts could help defeat HEAT warheads, but were ineffective against AP, APC and utterly useless against tungsten rounds.
hey widewing... i'd read up a bit more... most armor piercing is explosive... alot being designed to explode on a fuse delay when its inside the armor... during WWII the Brits had no APHE except for the 2 pounder
Title: Re: M8
Post by: BigKev03 on May 30, 2011, 05:49:56 PM
I like the M8 to get in fast to a base and deack it.  It is also useful in taking down the ord and radar.  Of course enemy armor will cause problems but gun and run.  If the VH is down and ord is down and you have sufficient friendly air overhead you can shut down the uppers at any base with an M8 on the runway.

BigKev
Title: Re: M8
Post by: iron650 on May 30, 2011, 05:54:18 PM
I like the M8 to get in fast to a base and deack it.  It is also useful in taking down the ord and radar.  Of course enemy armor will cause problems but gun and run.  If the VH is down and ord is down and you have sufficient friendly air overhead you can shut down the uppers at any base with an M8 on the runway.

BigKev

Run circles around the enemy (firing) bigkev until you see them aim where you're about to go (then stop.) It worked on a panther. Or sneak up on the armor. But run if it's a Tiger.
Title: Re: M8
Post by: Jabberwock on May 30, 2011, 06:43:08 PM
uhh...... yeah? they have shaped charges on the tips concentrating to a powerful explosion fowards. some charges have delays creating the explosion inside the armored unit but i believe no delayed AP charges were used in WWII

Can you name a WW2 AP round that had a shaped charge in the nose of the round?

Bursting charge in the body, yes. Shaped charge in the nose, no.

Hollow charge/HEAT rounds were a relatively new technology at the time.

German 105 mm HEAT rounds:

http://www.lonesentry.com/articles/ttt09/hollow-charge-shells.html

German 75 mm HEAT round:

http://www.lonesentry.com/articles/ttt07/hollow-charge-german-75mm.html

Most APHE rounds had charge (and fuse) at the back of the round. AFAIK, British 2lb production AP rounds had their HE content replaced with filler in 1938/1939, to improve AP performance. Other British rounds had no HE filling.
Title: Re: M8
Post by: Widewing on May 30, 2011, 07:40:04 PM
hey widewing... i'd read up a bit more... most armor piercing is explosive... alot being designed to explode on a fuse delay when its inside the armor... during WWII the Brits had no APHE except for the 2 pounder

Indeed, you should "read up a bit more", and something beyond wiki. Aside from HEAT rounds, AP rounds were solid shot, some of which had a base-fuzed anti-material/anti-personnel bursting charge that would detonate after penetration. This charge had nothing to do with penetrating the armor, which you have argued....

"uhh...... yeah? they have shaped charges on the tips concentrating to a powerful explosion forwards. some charges have delays creating the explosion inside the armored unit but i believe no delayed AP charges were used in WWII" Note that this statement is contradicted by your follow-up comment at the top.

"they were also meant to force larger rounds to explode before the impact with the actual tank. the 5mm of armor would cause the AP round to explode early causing no harm to the tank."

Again, aside from occasional HEAT (shaped charge) rounds, the vast majority of AP rounds were solid shot (some with, many without a small bursting charge) that relied completely upon kinetic energy to penetrate armor.

Title: Re: M8
Post by: Rino on May 31, 2011, 01:45:22 AM
     I am really amazed that someone would have the gall to tell either Widewing or Guppy to "read up a little more".
Those two especially have their stuff straight, and I would trust their statements almost unconditionally.
Title: Re: M8
Post by: 321BAR on May 31, 2011, 06:41:12 AM
     I am really amazed that someone would have the gall to tell either Widewing or Guppy to "read up a little more".
Those two especially have their stuff straight, and I would trust their statements almost unconditionally.
hey if im wrong im wrong. i looked up info saying otherwise. :aok i wasnt mocking them (least i dont remember trying to) :headscratch:

They're right. My bad
Title: Re: M8
Post by: Reaper90 on May 31, 2011, 01:29:26 PM
Anyone else have any interesting M8 stories?

Basically the same story as everyone else, I was able to sneak up behind a Panzer that was preoccupied with a few friendly tanks and didn't notice me swinging wide around his flank. He was sitting there like a dummy with his engine running apparently and didn't hear me drive my M8 right up to his back end. I'd guess within 50 feet, he was so close that he filled the gunsight and then some. 1 round to the back of his turret shut him down, a second to his engine compartment made him go boom. Did it to the same guy 2 more times before he quit spawning in.
Title: Re: M8
Post by: iron650 on May 31, 2011, 03:46:38 PM
Basically the same story as everyone else, I was able to sneak up behind a Panzer that was preoccupied with a few friendly tanks and didn't notice me swinging wide around his flank. He was sitting there like a dummy with his engine running apparently and didn't hear me drive my M8 right up to his back end. I'd guess within 50 feet, he was so close that he filled the gunsight and then some. 1 round to the back of his turret shut him down, a second to his engine compartment made him go boom. Did it to the same guy 2 more times before he quit spawning in.

Well going a little off topic to kill a Tiger in the T34/75 is to take the HVAP rounds get close and shoot where the turret connects to the hull. Also, I had almost the same story but the Panther had his engine off and had target obsession until I pelted him. He soon found me and I circled shooting him until he moved the turret where I was about to go. There I stopped and ping ping ping he's gone.
Title: Re: M8
Post by: Belial on May 31, 2011, 09:15:23 PM
The M8 can kill every tank but the Tige in this game...t34-76 is also very hard to kill.


Panzers I can 1 shot with time to aim 3 shots on the move.

Shermans 3 shots on the move

Panther 1 shot on the move the thing is thin skinned cept the front.

T34-85 just turret it with 3-5 shots and then drive inside and start firing
Title: Re: M8
Post by: iron650 on June 01, 2011, 05:44:45 PM
The M8 can kill every tank but the Tige in this game...t34-76 is also very hard to kill.


Panzers I can 1 shot with time to aim 3 shots on the move.

Shermans 3 shots on the move

Panther 1 shot on the move the thing is thin skinned cept the front.

T34-85 just turret it with 3-5 shots and then drive inside and start firing

To get another M8 as soon as you see it shoot and BOOM  :aok