Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: AAJagerX on June 04, 2011, 06:54:23 PM
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6:30 on a Saturday evening.
Orange- 80/300 with rook eny in the 25+ range and very few fights to be had.
Blue- 200/200
It's been like this for about an hour now. I know I could switch countries to solve the eny issue, but due to low numbers, there really isn't much at all going on in Orange. I upped Lancs to burn some time until more people logged on, but after about an hour flying over enemy territory and only seeing 3 planes, I bombed some stuff, got shot down, and logged off. I'm betting that alot of folks log on, see these types of numbers and just log off again. In this situation, it'll take most of the evening to populate Orange to the point that Blue will open up. I've been seeing alot more of this situation as of late, and have finally come to the point where I agree with the "one LW arena on the weekends" crowd. We just don't have the numbers to support two balanced arenas right now.
Rant over, we'll now return you to your regularly scheduled program.
:salute
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Right behind you buddy. I just logged off for the same reason.
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6:30 on a Saturday evening.
Orange- 80/300 with rook eny in the 25+ range and very few fights to be had.
On the other hand, rooks have perk bonus 1.43 in blue... but no fights either ;)
This just boosts my belief that at the current level two capped arenas aren't really necessary at the moment anymore. Add the two arena populations together and a large map is still not being particularly "overcrowded" ;)
Remember, for a long time after the split we did have those combined numbers in each of the LW arenas... :old:
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I saw blue was full so i logged into orange tonight, flew around shot at a couple planes and then the mini fight died. Map was completely dry so I went and tried to get into blue for about 10 minutes. I gave up and logged off.
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On the other hand, rooks have perk bonus 1.43 in blue... but no fights either ;)
This just boosts my belief that at the current level two capped arenas aren't really necessary at the moment anymore. Add the two arena populations together and a large map is still not being particularly "overcrowded" ;)
Remember, for a long time after the split we did have those combined numbers in each of the LW arenas... :old:
Yes lusche, but splitting arenas creates more subscriptions! End of story <plugs ears> LALALALALA I CANT HEAR YOU.
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Yes lusche, but splitting arenas creates more subscriptions! End of story <plugs ears> LALALALALA I CANT HEAR YOU.
:rofl
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Yes lusche, but splitting arenas creates more subscriptions! End of story <plugs ears> LALALALALA I CANT HEAR YOU.
(http://www.onlinecolleges.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/ear-plugs.jpg)
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6:30 on a Saturday evening.
Orange- 80/300 with rook eny in the 25+ range and very few fights to be had.
Blue- 200/200
It's been like this for about an hour now. I know I could switch countries to solve the eny issue, but due to low numbers, there really isn't much at all going on in Orange. I upped Lancs to burn some time until more people logged on, but after about an hour flying over enemy territory and only seeing 3 planes, I bombed some stuff, got shot down, and logged off. I'm betting that alot of folks log on, see these types of numbers and just log off again. In this situation, it'll take most of the evening to populate Orange to the point that Blue will open up. I've been seeing alot more of this situation as of late, and have finally come to the point where I agree with the "one LW arena on the weekends" crowd. We just don't have the numbers to support two balanced arenas right now.
Rant over, we'll now return you to your regularly scheduled program.
:salute
Yep. Same here
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I saw blue was full so i logged into orange tonight, flew around shot at a couple planes and then the mini fight died. Map was completely dry so I went and tried to get into blue for about 10 minutes. I gave up and logged off.
At this point I don't care either way, but I'm wondering if it went to one arena would there be a way to balance it so it doesn't become one sided as it seems both LW arenas seem to become.
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If both arenas never went below ###/300 we'd rarely have a problem.
Just saying.
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At this point I don't care either way, but I'm wondering if it went to one arena would there be a way to balance it so it doesn't become one sided as it seems both LW arenas seem to become.
Much of the imbalances do come from the fact that with two arenas one is is often dominated by one country and the other by a second one. For example rooks had been utterly dominating LWO tonight (by numbers), while being greatly outnumbered in LWB. This leads to very extreme situations and ENY restrictions. They do happen much less on Titanic Tuesdays (or in the past with a single arena)
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I'm all for keeping any part of this game that makes Grizz cry.
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Much of the imbalances do come from the fact that with two arenas one is is often dominated by one country and the other by a second one. For example rooks had been utterly dominating LWO tonight (by numbers), while being greatly outnumbered in LWB. This leads to very extreme situations and ENY restrictions. They do happen much less on Titanic Tuesdays (or in the past with a single arena)
So would the crowd live with some sort of side balancing? Say you can come into the arena but you might have to wait to up if the percentages get too far off? You can then BS with your squaddies waiting for things to change, since that seems to be the biggest beef. Do away with ENY then too which seems to be the other big complaint? Folks willing to live with the trade off so they can all be together?
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On the other hand, rooks have perk bonus 1.43 in blue... but no fights either ;)
This just boosts my belief that at the current level two capped arenas aren't really necessary at the moment anymore. Add the two arena populations together and a large map is still not being particularly "overcrowded" ;)
Remember, for a long time after the split we did have those combined numbers in each of the LW arenas... :old:
Yep.
I hope nobody takes my statement as an attack on HTC policies, as I believe that they do their best to make good decisions for the game overall.
I truly miss the days of intense fights and all sorts of different situations that were an everyday thing a few years back (which got me hooked in the first place). AH has and will continue to be one of my favorite pastimes, but at this point the split arena numbers just don't work as they're intended to.
Side note: The arenas didn't balance out until about 10 PM Central. That's just about 4 1/2 hours of one arena being locked down. Nobody wants to see that sort of thing.
:salute
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You might get your wish in a back handed sort of way... School is out and we may soon have the numbers to fill two arenas....
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You might get your wish in a back handed sort of way... School is out and we may soon have the numbers to fill two arenas....
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Due to the decreased numbers it might make sense to go back to a single LW arena, until the global economy picks up at least.
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On a side note I'm playing tonight when I suffer a screen freeze. That's been happening a lot lately since one of the patches and there's no way to close the game. Task manager won't even close it so I have to shut down with the power button.
But anyway this happens. By the time I power back up it's 12:35 AM. By the time I log back in and find a fight I'll hardly even have time for a sortie before the arena switch so I don't even bother logging back on. It seems to me the way things are now it gives you more incentive to forget the game that it does to play it. I'm not sure I exactly enjoy paying for something that makes it so hard for me to use.
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STRIKE THY TOILET IN TWAIN, IT'S A CESSPOOL!
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You might get your wish in a back handed sort of way... School is out and we may soon have the numbers to fill two arenas....
Summer is actually the time of the year with traditionally lower player numbers. I think the game "outside" seems to be quite attractive to some people during this season :D
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Here is my question on the matter:
What is the purpose for not having one single LW arena?
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What is the purpose for not having one single LW arena?
:huh
Loon, you've been around here a while, how could you possibly ask that question with a straight face? It's been discussed AD NAUSEUM, a simple search will give you HOURS of reading, and the direct answer from the head guy himself was even sarcastically used in this thread.
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Here is my question on the matter:
What is the purpose for not having one single LW arena?
As if you didn't knew ;)
But for the newer folks I'll still answer:
According to HTC, at the time of the big arena split (sept 2006) the number player had become so large that the single MA arena was actually limiting further growth. In order to enable growth again, as well as enhancing the game possibilities by adding additional, themed arenas (EW, MW and - much later WWI) the Arena Split was put into effect. Again according to HTC, the results were positive as the numbers of subscribers started to grow again, and (if I recall correctly) the percentage of players subscribing after trial improved.
There are several reason why an arena too large could have a detrimental impact on gameplay and further growth. Unfortunately they are a lot of different explanations & stories about perceived "arena health" or "server problems" floating around the players, most of them just being rumors or plain wrong ;)
For the record, the original message by Pyro:
Thanks to your patronage Aces High has grown to the point where a single Main Arena is no longer a sufficient solution. It is time for us to move beyond a single main arena. Today during the weekly terrain change, we will be revamping our arena structure with an entirely new model. We’ve looked forward to this point because instead of just simply offering more duplicate arenas, we’ve planned to use this opportunity to diversify our offerings by making different arenas based on different time periods. So instead of having a single arena with all planes available (which naturally emphasizes late war planes), we’ll have 3 different types of Main Arenas- early-war planes, mid-war planes, and late-war planes. This will give us far more diversity.
We hope that through further growth we can add even more diverse offerings such as more time periods and perhaps even time periods outside of WWII such as WWI or the Korean War. This format will also provide more impetus for us to try and comprehensively develop the plane and vehicle set with stuff that would otherwise get swallowed up by the late-war monsters and see little use outside of special events.
Multiple Mains may seem like an oxymoron, but in fact it isn’t. It’s not just a matter of semantics because they are all connected through the same scoring, squad, and perk point databases. If your squad decides to spend the night in the Early MA, they don’t need to reform the squad there because it already exists. There are no separate scores or perk points for these different arenas- it’s all shared. In that regard, these Main Arenas are all one in the same. It neither harms nor benefits your score or perk points to change which Main Arena you fly in from day to day. Perk points earned in one MA count towards the same total as in any of the other Mains. The only difference is what planes and vehicles qualify as a perk ride varies from arena to arena.
Being in this business a long time, we understand that people are creatures of habit and old habits die-hard. Going through any major change is uncomfortable until people become acclimated to the change. This change is especially difficult because we cannot simply add these new arenas; we need to redistribute how the arenas are populated. To accomplish that, we’re going to be reducing arena caps so as to not have one arena dominate just by virtue of everybody following the herd. We’ll also be using small terrains exclusively for now, but that is not a permanent change. Once we’re comfortable that people have acclimated to the new format, we’ll begin to work those elements back in.
With players spreading out, we are aware of the need for better tools to find and communicate with your buddies. We will be working on some new tools to handle this but for now that can be accomplished with the squadron message of the day. (MOTD). The squad MOTD will reach across all the Main Arena's so the squad leader can be sure that everybody knows where to go on a given night.
Once again, thanks for your support. We hope you will find these changes refreshing. We've waited a long time to get here and we’re very excited about the many development directions this opens.
(The annoying special characters are part of the original message after the BBS migration, I didn't feel to edit them all out :P)
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Along with the comments already made, part of the problem with one side dominating the others is not just raw numbers in an arena; it's the ridiculous notion of chesspiece loyalty. Instead of switching sides to find opposition and fights, people will just stay in their beloved chesspiece amongst the horde and then complain about not having anyone to fight.
I spend little time in the LW arenas, but I agree that the time for split LW arenas seems to have passed; the numbers just don't support it most of the time.
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Along with the comments already made, part of the problem with one side dominating the others is not just raw numbers in an arena; it's the ridiculous notion of chesspiece loyalty. Instead of switching sides to find opposition and fights, people will just stay in their beloved chesspiece amongst the horde and then complain about not having anyone to fight.
Not trying to argue that, just my personal opinion on that matter: I do not think that chess piece loyalty itself is ridiculous. Many players do like to be part of a stable team, working for a common goal, and loyalty is important to them. Nothing wrong with that. Ridiculous are just some extreme behaviors, like paranoia and watering colored glasses "They always gang us... they never fight each other... ENY is unfair to us, with numbers like this they never get restrictions, only we do... Rooks(Bish,Nits) always horde, we never do... only us can never get organized... we suck..." and generally forgetting that bad times for your country are the true test of loyalty (There is an awful lot of good weather only loyalists out there...)
But imho there is nothing inherently wrong with choosing a side and sticking to it.
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I've been a Bish since day 1. Not that I'm particularily loyal to a chess piece. Hell, I'm not in a squad and don't really even fly with the other Bish. I just don't see a reason to change. Some days we have numbers, some days we don't. Either way I'm fine with it. I can be a loner on any side.
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I share in the frustration. I think that when this $15 is up I won't be renewing.
I've just not been having fun lately, seems that there are far fewer good fights then I remember a few years ago (maybe it's just nostalgia). Lately it seems that rather then confrontation I see 90% of team A flying in horde on this end of the front, and 90% team B flying in a horde on the opposite end of the front. So my choices are either join the horde on my team (boring) or try and confront the other teams horde outnumbered 20-1.
I logged on last night as a knight, into the only LW arena I could get in, (I'm not a fan of the split arenas either) to find the Knights hording the Rooks in the south, and the Bish hording the knights in the north. I tried to talk people into confronting the Bish horde and thus starting a good fight, but to no avail. And since I had no interest in flying with a horde taking undefended bases I quickly logged off. I don't have a problem with missions, I used to fly in them a lot, and used to be part of a "mission oriented" squad. But missions are no fun to me when there is no resistance whatsoever. Base captures are a lot more fun when you have to work for it a little bit.
PS, I'm not blaming HTC, it seems to me more like the overall player attitude has shifted. When I first started (5 yrs ago) it seemed no matter what else was going on, there was always at least one good equal #s fight on a map, whether that fight was trying to take land or not, now not so much. Not saying it's right or wrong, just saying I don't enjoy it much anymore.
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Along with the comments already made, part of the problem with one side dominating the others is not just raw numbers in an arena; it's the ridiculous notion of chesspiece loyalty. Instead of switching sides to find opposition and fights, people will just stay in their beloved chesspiece amongst the horde and then complain about not having anyone to fight.
I spend little time in the LW arenas, but I agree that the time for split LW arenas seems to have passed; the numbers just don't support it most of the time.
Im one of the chesspiece loyal. Thats how I choose to play (that whole My $15 thing) Plus. With my chess piece I know the handful whom I can trust in a fight to cover my butt as much as Im willing to cover theirs. I also know whom not to trust.
On the other hand you also have people change side just so they can clear a map faster and/or completely dominate the other side so's there is little risk to themselves.
I'll switch arena's when my chesspiece is completely dominating only to find the other sides chess piece completely dominating my side. Being the horder. Or the hordee isnt much fun so. often. I'll just log in hopes of finding a better fight some other night.
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I just got back from the WWII show in Reading PA (great show btw) and I had a chance to talk with a few guys who use to fly. Now while "stories" may get bigger and better with time :D I remember this game being a LOT more fun. Most of these guys were "E" fighter types and use to really hate it when I got them killed by diving into out number situations, but many a time we would get out of it. Other stories were all about the battles that raged the whole night against MAWs and other squads that would go out of the way to FIGHT, not run from one to NOE a base on the other side of the map.
I think HTC should go back to a single arena for awhile again until he sees his numbers becoming a problem again. Leave the second arena open, but bump the cap back up to TT stats and see how it goes.
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I think HTC should go back to a single arena for awhile again until he sees his numbers becoming a problem again. Leave the second arena open, but bump the cap back up to TT stats and see how it goes.
During the first weeks of WWI arena exactly this was done, and I didn't see any serious problems or players complaining about it (and the numbers were greater than they are right now) :old:
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During the first weeks of WWI arena exactly this was done, and I didn't see any serious problems or players complaining about it (and the numbers were greater than they are right now) :old:
I didn't see HTC or "Hitech" listed in that, so "those" opinions aren't really the ones to matter :P
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Ive been saying this for quite a while, HTC needs to let the community decide where and how it wants to fly. Instead of herding us like sheep (nothing wrong with sheep btw) from one place to another. Had the best furball in months on this game, actually even years, things were in full swing, numbers even, and then the message, arena will be closed in 5mins *SIGH* thats the 2nd day in a row, things are in an enjoyable full swing and the arena closes, to split into 2, not so much fun arenas. I'd like to hear reason for this arena split/caps, have the 2 arenas, sure, make the limit of each 500, let the community decide if they want small local fights or big hairy furballs, stop dictating to us where WE must and must not fly, after all we are the customers and we do pay the bills!!!
I thank you:)
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Just was logged in the off hours arena for a while (usually don't get to be on during off hours).
And guess what?? There was a fantastic 3-way fight going on around A45, with a Rook base, a Knight CV, and a Bish CV!!!
It was more fun then I've had in a long time, and it was the first time I'd been on during the off hours single arena in a long time.
I know it's only anecdotal, but it confirms my belief that a single arena is more fun. (for me anyway) Haven't seen a fight like that in either of the split arenas for ages it feels like.
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One arena.
Works every Tuesday, week in and week out.
I've never logged in on Tuesday and been unable to find some violence.
Fly P-40Bs with your squaddies if sides are unbalanced.
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Just was logged in the off hours arena for a while (usually don't get to be on during off hours).
And guess what?? There was a fantastic 3-way fight going on around A45, with a Rook base, a Knight CV, and a Bish CV!!!
It was more fun then I've had in a long time, and it was the first time I'd been on during the off hours single arena in a long time.
I know it's only anecdotal, but it confirms my belief that a single arena is more fun. (for me anyway) Haven't seen a fight like that in either of the split arenas for ages it feels like.
The last 3 hours of offpeak arena are something like the "old main". We have a relatively high player density, yet not too many players overall. There are some hogh intensity areas as well as some low key activity spots, but not much chance to completely roll remote areas totally unnoticed. And you have much less problems to get players for something different due to higher total numbers. (One reason we do not see that many huge bomber missions anymore is the problem of pulling such thing off when one arena is capped and the other has hardly players in it)
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Before the game froze up on me last night I was going to try to organize a fighter sweep but with 30 people per side I decided it wasn't worth the effort. I agree split arenas don't really accomodate mission planning very well.
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9 months ago I was tracking the exact arena numbers, because I was astonished how low they went at that time. We had 205 LWO and 175 LWB on a Sunday at ~ 6:30 eastern then.
Right now, at ~6:30 pm eastern on a Sunday too, there are 75 players in LWO and 199 in LWB.... :uhoh
It's really time to uncap LW for the summer to get back a gameplay as rich and varied as possible with the current population :pray
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9 months ago I was tracking the exact arena numbers, because I was astonished how low they went at that time. We had 205 LWO and 175 LWB on a Sunday at ~ 6:30 eastern then.
Right now, at ~6:30 pm eastern on a Sunday too, there are 75 players in LWO and 199 in LWB.... :uhoh
It's really time to uncap LW for the summer to get back a gameplay as rich and varied as possible with the current population :pray
Do you have any data on how those numbers compare to years past?
Seems like there are fewer players now then there was 3-4 years ago. Makes me wonder about the long term viability of this game, just look what happened to FA. Also one would have thought we'd see a large increase in players here after FA shut down last year, but nope.
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Do you have any data on how those numbers compare to years past?
Yes, but...
In case of actual numbers of players logged in, I am keeping an eye on that number for years now, but only have sound, presentable data for a relative small number of selected dates
In terms of the bigger picture, overall activity, I just have the same data any player can have via score & stats pages. Of course I do not have no data at all about # of subscribers and other business relevant things.
But you can take the number of kills in an arena as a very good measure of activity, played hours (and thus relative player numbers logged in), because the kills/hour is a remarkably stable number over the years, at least for the LW MA
Here's an example covering the time since AH went AH II in 2004:
(http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/3374/quarterly.jpg)
Arena Split was early Sept 2006, score's were split one year later. My projection for the second quarter 2011 is a conservative, slightly optimistic one based on it's first two months.
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Ive been saying this for quite a while, HTC needs to let the community decide where and how it wants to fly. Instead of herding us like sheep (nothing wrong with sheep btw) from one place to another. Had the best furball in months on this game, actually even years, things were in full swing, numbers even, and then the message, arena will be closed in 5mins *SIGH* thats the 2nd day in a row, things are in an enjoyable full swing and the arena closes, to split into 2, not so much fun arenas. I'd like to hear reason for this arena split/caps, have the 2 arenas, sure, make the limit of each 500, let the community decide if they want small local fights or big hairy furballs, stop dictating to us where WE must and must not fly, after all we are the customers and we do pay the bills!!!
I thank you:)
Quite a while being a relative term :)
It's been explained so many times it's gotten silly. Who might that 'community' be that gets to decide? The folks on the BBS?
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I'm kind of wondering... if instead of a split based upon time of day, would there be the possibility of split based upon total arena population?
What I mean is... right now, you've got off-hours as no limit, and on hours as limit...
Instead of that, would it be feasable, and would it be POSSIBLE that a system be built where...
Every 15 minutes, the server examines the total population numbers.
If a single MA > 400 for 4 straight time period checks, lock the arena, warn of a split in 15 minutes. The split arenas stay in place until 8 straight time periods of MA < 400 after the first 30 minutes ... The new split arenas are the identical map that was used in the single arena. It would be great if there was a way that when the arena splits, it actually takes the current players, and the next 200 to "take off" or spawn, immediately spawn into the 2nd arena. When the "split" re-merges, then it takes the map of the arena with the majority of players, and merges the other arena into them. The biggest problem with the auto-split/join method is that it can split up squads who need to decide what arena to run in. But it gives somewhat of a "persistent" world, while still cutting down the "chat cesspool" issue. Obviously if that's not possible, than the current system of dump and re-join would have to be used.
So that would basically mean the main arenas would have to contain > 400 players for at least an hour straight before the system would even consider splitting the arena, and they would stay split for at least 2 1/2 hours afterwards, minimum. I know this doesn't solve the problem that some people prefer the split and some do not, but at least this would dynamically decide the issue based upon # of available players instead of an arbitrary time of day irregardless as to if it's busy or not.
I personally think that if the "cesspool" problems the game seems to experience with too many people on at once is too much garbage in the text buffers and too little self policing due to the anonymous nature of the larger numbers, that a better fix would be to limit the chat buffers to regions of the map, and no longer have an complete "total server" chat room anymore, but that's a whole different topic.
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6:30 on a Saturday evening.
Orange- 80/300 with rook eny in the 25+ range and very few fights to be had.
Blue- 200/200
It's been like this for about an hour now. I know I could switch countries to solve the eny issue, but due to low numbers, there really isn't much at all going on in Orange. I upped Lancs to burn some time until more people logged on, but after about an hour flying over enemy territory and only seeing 3 planes, I bombed some stuff, got shot down, and logged off. I'm betting that alot of folks log on, see these types of numbers and just log off again. In this situation, it'll take most of the evening to populate Orange to the point that Blue will open up. I've been seeing alot more of this situation as of late, and have finally come to the point where I agree with the "one LW arena on the weekends" crowd. We just don't have the numbers to support two balanced arenas right now.
Rant over, we'll now return you to your regularly scheduled program.
:salute
Exactly, except it was more like 3 hrs. Is pissing off a large percentage of your subscribers good business? NOT! RAISE THE FRIGGIN' CAPS! after an Hour I logged and rechecked still full in Blue 200/200. There has to be a smarter way to do this. 200 is definitely too low. If we had options to check in so you're the next one in line...? gives you a screen message "Do you want to go to Blue arena?"& a few seconds to say yes/no? All my squadies are on blue....Logging to check is a stupid waste of time. :huh what are they thinking?
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Every 15 minutes, the server examines the total population numbers.
If a single MA > 400 for 4 straight time period checks, lock the arena, warn of a split in 15 minutes. The split arenas stay in place until 8 straight time periods of MA < 400 after the first 30 minutes ... The new split arenas are the identical map that was used in the single arena. It would be great if there was a way that when the arena splits, it actually takes the current players, and the next 200 to "take off" or spawn, immediately spawn into the 2nd arena.
A lot of problems with that.
First, there will be much additional uncertainty about if, and when a split will occur. Now you can at least plan accordingly, especially important for our buff friends. The next problem... nobody wants to get out of the current arena, so a whole lot of players will simply stay in tower waiting for someone else spawning & being teleported away, until the 200 slots are full. Action will die down quite a lot.
Third, the unwary ones being teleported out of the arena will probably try to get back in and back to the specific battle they fought at all costs, more than now as everybody gets kicked out and there is no battle in progress to rejoin.
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At this point I don't care either way, but I'm wondering if it went to one arena would there be a way to balance it so it doesn't become one sided as it seems both LW arenas seem to become.
Can't edit my original answer above, so let me here add this example from 10 minutes ago
LWO:
(http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/3794/lwoe.jpg)
and at the same time LWB:
(http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/3798/lwbj.jpg)
The combined numbers would have been 127 (32%), 143 (36%) and 126 (32%) with no ENY for anyone.
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Do you believe that all those folks are chess piece loyal, or do you think with one arena it would go back to folks going to where they think they can win? I guess in the end it comes down to me that I don't care if it goes back to one arena, but I want some balance so that it isn't horde wars. I know there are folks that think Titanic Tuesday is heaven. And there are those of us who'd rather watch grass grow then fly that night because of the horde warrior mentality.
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Yes, but...
In case of actual numbers of players logged in, I am keeping an eye on that number for years now, but only have sound, presentable data for a relative small number of selected dates
In terms of the bigger picture, overall activity, I just have the same data any player can have via score & stats pages. Of course I do not have no data at all about # of subscribers and other business relevant things.
But you can take the number of kills in an arena as a very good measure of activity, played hours (and thus relative player numbers logged in), because the kills/hour is a remarkably stable number over the years, at least for the LW MA
Here's an example covering the time since AH went AH II in 2004:
(http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/3374/quarterly.jpg)
Arena Split was early Sept 2006, score's were split one year later. My projection for the second quarter 2011 is a conservative, slightly optimistic one based on it's first two months.
Nice graph. There is an obvious decline since mid 2009, question is; is the decline tied to the economy, or is there less interest in this type of game?
I mean I know part of it is economic pressure on people. But if/when the world economy turns around, will the players come back or not?
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Do you believe that all those folks are chess piece loyal, or do you think with one arena it would go back to folks going to where they think they can win? I guess in the end it comes down to me that I don't care if it goes back to one arena, but I want some balance so that it isn't horde wars. I know there are folks that think Titanic Tuesday is heaven. And there are those of us who'd rather watch grass grow then fly that night because of the horde warrior mentality.
I honestly believe that what you call "horde mentality" is not tied, nor prevented, by any arena setup. Hordes exist in one single arena as well as two seperate arenas. The difference is just that hording, i.e. superiority by a massive numerical advantage, is happening more easily with a multi arena setup. A a lot of players are what i call "sunshine loyalists". They fight (or play ;) ) for "their chesspiece", but they tend to go to the arena where they are "winning". That's why we do see very high ENY values more frequently, and for much longer periods since the arena split, and that's why they are much less pronounced on Titanic Tuesdays. The example I have above was at that values for the whole evening, Rooks were massively outnumberd in LWB for hours while Bish experienced the same in LWB
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Nice graph. There is an obvious decline since mid 2009, question is; is the decline tied to the economy, or is there less interest in this type of game?
I mean I know part of it is economic pressure on people. But if/when the world economy turns around, will the players come back or not?
I'm afraid this is no question with a simple answer and could be debated endlessly on the BBS. ;)
I for one only can say: I do not know. Of course I have a few guesses and a vague opinion, but having no "behind the scenes" knowledge and never having worked in the industry, it might not be worth much :lol
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Great discussion with numbers.
I can only add anecdotal points. My squad, Loose Deuce, has members from North America and Europe. Daily we have squadies doing what they do best from roughly 2 PM to 4 PM. In the US we are getting off work early, out of school, etc. In Europe it is right before midnight. It is great because we have the one arena. Unofficially our squad flying time ends when they shut the arena down and force us into two arenas. The fight dies, peters out and almost everyone logs off.
If we must have two arenas, remove the caps. Better yet, keep the one arena unless it climbs to 400+ or so. Seems pretty straight forward to me.
On another note, do we have outreach efforts for the 2-week trial guys? I think we all agree the more the merrier. I know the trainers are great. Maybe we should find ways for veterans to work with the trial sticks. If they have a great experience they are more likely to stick around. Maybe HT could provide this info to trainers and squad COs so they can reach out to them. If there are say 25 trial people this week, the COs have a list of names and we can look for this pilots and include them. Being part of the community will help keep them around. Admitted they are fun to shoot down but comradery is better. I should add that it took me over a year to realize the value of this forum. I had to randomly discover that this community extends beyond the arenas.
I have limited exposure, two years isn't much history. It is pretty obvious though that numbers are declining and a few efforts could help boost them. I for one am happy to help the cause.
Boo
Loose Deuce
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On another note, do we have outreach efforts for the 2-week trial guys? I think we all agree the more the merrier. I know the trainers are great. Maybe we should find ways for veterans to work with the trial sticks. If they have a great experience they are more likely to stick around. Maybe HT could provide this info to trainers and squad COs so they can reach out to them. If there are say 25 trial people this week, the COs have a list of names and we can look for this pilots and include them. Being part of the community will help keep them around. Admitted they are fun to shoot down but comradery is better. I should add that it took me over a year to realize the value of this forum. I had to randomly discover that this community extends beyond the arenas.
YES! YES! YES!
I have been saying this for quite some time now! The key is getting them early and teaching them to fight! A good fight is tons of fun! Adrenaline! Even if/when you lose! Getting repeatedly toasted because you don't even know the basics is not fun...
A system that encourages squads, vets, frogs, or leprechauns to get their hands on the new guys and get them pointed in the right direction could be HUGE for Aces High!
The Trainers are great, but admit it, if you aren't a BBS junky you aren't likely to get hooked up with a trainer. I would love for HTC to get the Squads more involved.
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One arena.
Works every Tuesday, week in and week out.
I've never logged in on Tuesday and been unable to find some violence.
Fly P-40Bs with your squaddies if sides are unbalanced.
TT like arenas 7/24....please no!!!
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I fly weekend mornings when I can, and I know it's generally fun until the arena is split.
Maybe the two-week trial players could have their own color of icon, so everybody on a side would know who the two-weekers are and be especially helpful/friendly to them. Those graphs posted of declining player numbers are worrying. With the demise of FA, you think AH should've grown a bit.
What about a change to the structure of the maps? I mean, when a new map comes into being there are 3 side-controlled areas, giving 3 fronts to generate fights on. What about using a start similar to the random start in Risk, where a side's bases are scattered randomly throughout the map, and the side must capture bases to consolidate it's territory? That would increase the number of fronts greaatly, and might break up the base-taking hordes into a bunch of smaller fights until territories are consolidated...
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What about a change to the structure of the maps? I mean, when a new map comes into being there are 3 side-controlled areas, giving 3 fronts to generate fights on. What about using a start similar to the random start in Risk, where a side's bases are scattered randomly throughout the map, and the side must capture bases to consolidate it's territory? That would increase the number of fronts greaatly, and might break up the base-taking hordes into a bunch of smaller fights until territories are consolidated...
An increased number of fronts makes hording, that is assembling a big number of players in a weakly defended area, easier even. More fronts means more opportunities to strike where the defender doesn't expect. And on a personal note, I do not like "more fronts than players" concept at all, because there is hardly a chance for sustained battles. We can see this every Titanic Tuesday in the offhours arena when we have a large map and just 60 players online.
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Just an observation with minimal analysis: More action=more excited players telling their friends! Maybe that means one arena until numbers get back up (they will, this economy isn't permanent).
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Failure to change sides to even teams is a big issue.
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I agree Shuffler. I change sides just to fight a fight (in spite of being labeled a traitor).
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Failure to change sides to even teams is a big issue.
To me, a bigger issue is having only 70 player in an arena with a large map, while the other arena is capped at 200. A lack of gameplay options and action density, so to speak. All that horde and imbalance stuff is just a secondary symptom.
Personally, I do not mind the hordes. It's actually opposite: I am eagerly looking for them. :D
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To me, a bigger issue is having only 70 player in an arena with a large map, while the other arena is capped at 200. A lack of gameplay options and action density, so to speak. All that horde and imbalance stuff is just a secondary symptom.
Personally, I do not mind the hordes. It's actually opposite: I am eagerly looking for them. :D
The games all about hording and using overwhelming numbers now a days, I think the entire system needs to be relooked as far as the ENY and 3 countries, because frankly I don't see how this game can end up any worse then it already is.
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I think the hording is due to the psychological makeup of our player base slowly changing from people with specific skills and interests along the lines of WWII aviation to people who are just general gaming types.
In the early days, guys were willing to spend endless hours configuring a telnet session in order to connect and play.
It's much easier nowadays and those players willing to invest the time to play in the early days have either left or are being dliuted by the guys who just want to invest the minimum time to get to the fight rather than spend time planning or executing an epic mission.
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Some observations:
Compairing numbers playing on a Saturday to those playing on a Sunday to show a decline? Really?
I'm sure there are less people playing now than before but that's just not good statistical analysis.
Let's compare the number of people at work on a Friday to those working on a Saturday.
Arena caps causing people to leave in droves? I would imagine the people affected most, in the purse, would know best.
The interesting thing I found about the Sunday numbers in Orange,
(http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/3794/lwoe.jpg)
The Rooks and Knits were actually doing the primary fighting, against each other. So much for hording the side without numbers.
wrongway
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Some observations:
Compairing numbers playing on a Saturday to those playing on a Sunday to show a decline?
Who did that?
Arena caps causing people to leave in droves?
Who said that?
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Who did that?
Who said that?
I'm off to the eye doctor.
:bolt:
wrongway
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What about going from 3 sides (bish, rook, knight) to 2?
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What about going from 3 sides (bish, rook, knight) to 2?
Biggest problem is with 3 countries, one is always being horded against, unless something can be done with ENY to stop the hording then this is just going to continue to spiral out of control.
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I think that the issue boils down to what Die Schnecke (Lusche) was mentioning about player density. (Let's avoid 15 comments on 'player density' please). Here are some thoughts on increasing the density:
Perhaps having 2 countries is a better way to go to even-out numbers and to minimize the triggering of ENY. I understand the argument that 3 countries, a la AW, prevents ganging up... but I don't know if that hypothesis has ever been tested.
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oops, my premature posting problem has resurfaced...... :uhoh
To finish my thoughts:
Another way to increase player density is to use flexible maps. What I mean by that is a map where the number of bases available for launching and capture is based upon the number of players in the arena. Perhaps it could require taking an active base and holding it in order to open up an adjacent closed base or two. Any friendly base could be used for landing/hot padding, so that takes care of folks in the air when the base goes black and no one would have to leave the arena because it is closing down.
There are some issues around strategic impact and war-winning criteria, but those may be overcomeable.
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Biggest problem is with 3 countries, one is always being horded against, unless something can be done with ENY to stop the hording then this is just going to continue to spiral out of control.
Except last night in Orange....
:banana:
wrongway
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....or they can "set" a player into a country/category when they sign in.
That is the only way that there can be some assemblance of being even.
Does anyone want that? At least now you have a choice.
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Showing Hitech a graph that illustrates the shrinking pool of the globaly employed during a global economic down turn is like riding by a car with a flat tire on public transit and yelling advice out the window at the driver changing the tire. In the end the driver will have to change his own tire while your situation is tied to the means of transport your life is being conveyed on. Even if you are speeding your way to your tire changing job on that passing public transit.
Everyones subjective observations in this post have usefull merit even if only communicating your personal dissatisfaction about "something". Unless that driver brings his car to your tire changing business and contracts your services. You are still yelling advice out a window at 70mph.
You could always request Hitech to leave TT running from Tuesday 00:01am till Thursday 23:59pm for a tour.
I'm sure some of you remember an answer to a post like this a few years back. "What you want is not what you need."
While the driver is changing his tire he can clearly see the burning brake pads under your transit ride. So did he flip you the bird or try to warn you of your own peril during that 70mph moment you were helping him in?
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What about limiting the number of sorties per some time interval based on the field size? Small fields can sortie, say for example, 10% of a side's population per 15 minutes, medium fields can sortie 25%, and large fields 50%.
That might limit player density, and it also makes some sense in a realistic sort of way - you just wouldn't see a large proportion of a side's players continually sortie from a small field.
Or maybe have each sortie realistic decrement the fuel/ammo available at a field, which would be replenished by truck convoy, trains, or air resupply missions? I'm sure HTC could experiment and find a reasonable sortie capacity rate for each size field. It might not end the hordes, but it would require them to issue from multiple fields and converge - giving the opposition time to find and intercept before the horde grows so large...
You could even tie the field label color intensity to indicate how much capacity is left at each field so pilots could decide where to lift off from a glance at the map, rather than jumping to a field tower and then finding the field hasn't enough petrol to fuel your bird for a sortie.
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It would seem logical to start a second WWI arena in this situation..
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;)
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Showing Hitech a graph that illustrates the shrinking pool of the globaly employed during a global economic down turn is like riding by a car with a flat tire on public transit and yelling advice out the window at the driver changing the tire. In the end the driver will have to change his own tire while your situation is tied to the means of transport your life is being conveyed on. Even if you are speeding your way to your tire changing job on that passing public transit.
Everyones subjective observations in this post have usefull merit even if only communicating your personal dissatisfaction about "something". Unless that driver brings his car to your tire changing business and contracts your services. You are still yelling advice out a window at 70mph.
You could always request Hitech to leave TT running from Tuesday 00:01am till Thursday 23:59pm for a tour.
I'm sure some of you remember an answer to a post like this a few years back. "What you want is not what you need."
While the driver is changing his tire he can clearly see the burning brake pads under your transit ride. So did he flip you the bird or try to warn you of your own peril during that 70mph moment you were helping him in?
The economy is not the reason for the drop in numbers, at least not the main reason for the drop. Something my old college ball coach used to say, "Excuses or effort?"
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I'd just like to add to this conversation that while the caps really sucked this weekend (seriously :bhead ), the choice of maps up in rotation in blue and OHs was fun and productive to starting good fights ( :rock :airplane: ).
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I think that the issue boils down to what Die Schnecke (Lusche) was mentioning about player density. (Let's avoid 15 comments on 'player density' please). Here are some thoughts on increasing the density:
Perhaps having 2 countries is a better way to go to even-out numbers and to minimize the triggering of ENY. I understand the argument that 3 countries, a la AW, prevents ganging up... but I don't know if that hypothesis has ever been tested.
HTC tested it. I remember one of them saying something along the lines of going from 2 sides all the way to 6 sides, and 3 worked best.
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Thanks Fugi. I wonder what their definition of 'works best' was at the time? Was ENY part of the game then? If some of the load-levelling parameters are new it is time to retest the hypothesis.
Having one map with bases opening and closing strikes me as the most elegant solution...at least as an early concept. Limiting the number/amount of uppers/resources based on field size would be fairly complicated I think. Might be an interesting strategic aspect.
Certainly worth kicking it around though.
Another thought: Assuming that HTC believes that being in a squad is good for keeping players, perhaps he should allow squad members to join a closed arena IF there are already N squaddies in that arena. Be nice to give squads a tangible benefit for being a squad.
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Why don't we institute a system whereby people can decide which side to fly on, which base to take off from and what plane to fly.
Oh, wait...we already have that.
It doesn't seem to work very well, does it. You can't change human nature very easily...especially when it's grown men acting like little kids.
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stupid system hang...double post.
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double post
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I make no judgements as to the reasons people play the way they do. It matters not. Focus should be on incenting people to do naturally those things that are best for the game. Its like putting together compensation plans for salespeople.
Some people are chesspiece-loyal. Some will switch sides hoping to even up the fight. Some will switch sides so that they get the ueberride to take advantage of enemy targets floundering in their Bostons and C2s. Who cares? :cool:
Maybe the shortcut to dealing with imbalance issues is to only allow squads to select a country. Everyone else gets load-balanced. You could also make it that only squads get to select a LW arena...everyone else gets assigned. Side-switching would be only intermittently available...perhaps once every 2 hours.
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Thanks Fugi. I wonder what their definition of 'works best' was at the time? Was ENY part of the game then? If some of the load-levelling parameters are new it is time to retest the hypothesis.
Having one map with bases opening and closing strikes me as the most elegant solution...at least as an early concept. Limiting the number/amount of uppers/resources based on field size would be fairly complicated I think. Might be an interesting strategic aspect.
Certainly worth kicking it around though.
Another thought: Assuming that HTC believes that being in a squad is good for keeping players, perhaps he should allow squad members to join a closed arena IF there are already N squaddies in that arena. Be nice to give squads a tangible benefit for being a squad.
Not that I'm trying to shot down your ideas here, but ....
Building something to FORCE players to defend a base, or hold a freshly captured base will not work. Some people are just after captures, and couldn't care less if they lose the base while they are capturing the next. Other play to fight and don't care which base they are upping from, as long as they can up they are ok.
At this point, I don't think the game has enough players to support a split arena. So personally I don't think we need caps at this point either. Should the economy turn around or a new commercial run on the History channel and the numbers go back up to that "unhealthy" point again, I'd be happy to see the split come back.
With the caps in place however, letting squad mates join their squad in a capped arena would cause more trouble than just opening it. Figure that even if it was 50% of players (I'm sure it is much more) are in squads. As long as one of the squadmates are in the capped arena they could get in. That could be adding 50-100 especially if a squady "squats" the arena to get his buddies in that night for squad ops.
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HTC REALLY have to do something about this pretty soon.
Yesterday after closing arena, one arena was capped to 100 like usual, and the other arena could not get over 35 players the first 20-25 minutes.
Can you have a good fight with 30 online ? yes in theory, if you have a few places where you must fight, not a whole continent front to select from.
10 vs 10 vs 10 can be a good fight if you are closing and graying out fields (front line ) according to # of players - IF they absolutely must have 2 arenas.
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Last night around 9:30 CDST I got into the big arena (195/200) and flew 3 sectors chasing a shifting red dar bar - just before I'd reach a base, the dar bar would shift to the next sector. I never saw another plane, and when I got a message about terrain changing in 3 mins I just logged and found something else to do.
One arena, please.
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If they want to force people to fight for bases rather than just hover over them scoring vulches, they should make a certain percentage of bases only available to certain types of planes.
Maybe allowing buffs and jabo late war jabo from only the large fields...
This would add incentive to capture a base so people could have thier favorite rides where they want thier favorite rides rather than upping from a field far away from the action.
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Fugi:
When I suggested that squaddies be able to enter locked arenas I used the term 'N' to represent the number of squaddies already in the closed arena. 'N' is a representation of an unknown number, at least the way I use it, so your contention of 'one squad member' in a closed arena being enough for others to join is only true if that is the parameter that HTC would use...and a pretty unlikely parameter in my mind. More likely HTC would require 4-5 squaddies in a closed arena before additional squaddies are allowed.
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One arena it will be....................