Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Skyguns MKII on June 16, 2011, 10:42:01 PM
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I would imagine that if we get, lets say a priest for example with a 105mm. That it would be much like the LVTs 75mm with longer range and of course more damage, and I'm not gonna lie but I'm a little excited about the idea. The new GV system really kinda worked a lot of the issues, what ifs, and buts about introducing it. I don't know how many times i find myself sitting on a hill with a tank and wish i had arty to make it just a Little further. I don't even mind how inaccurate the rounds are because it would still be nice to put some inderect fire on bases, towns, and spawns. As of right now i imagine myself defending bases from gvs at a distant hill. So keep me wishin.
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+1
SP arty with a spotter in a jeep would change things for better IMHO.
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+1
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:aok +1
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There are multiple gv's that are already in game that have a variant with a artillery piece on them. The M4 Sherman, M3 halftrack, SdKfz 251, and even the Panzer IV all have variants with howitzers or direct fire cannons.
Mind you, we have the LVT-4 in game and much of how the proposed gv's would be used would be very similar. The differences would be more armor on the tanks and more speed with the M3 and 251.
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The "not practical" part of artillery is still the same as it has always been:
Non-LOS shooting.
Using artillery as it was meant to be used, shooting a barrage at something you can't see. You need maps. Accurate maps. Then you need someone to tell you where your rounds are landing so you can adjust.
Figure that out then artillery can be practical.
wrongway
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Using artillery as it was meant to be used, shooting a barrage at something you can't see. You need maps. Accurate maps. Then you need someone to tell you where your rounds are landing so you can adjust.
Figure that out then artillery can be practical.
wrongway
The maps wouldnt be a diffuclt thing, just clone the area of the fight and zone it out. would be like using a magnifying glass on the area of the big map. Now, I'm sure there would be alot of people willing to spot for artillery.
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no need to zoom in on map. plane spotters would be more fun. I normally spot locations for gv's.
semp
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The "not practical" part of artillery is still the same as it has always been:
Non-LOS shooting.
Using artillery as it was meant to be used, shooting a barrage at something you can't see. You need maps. Accurate maps. Then you need someone to tell you where your rounds are landing so you can adjust.
Figure that out then artillery can be practical.
wrongway
HTC's already "figured it out", it's called "Land mode" in fleets. The same process could be used for
self-propelled or towed artillery pieces.
(edit = this >>> ) SP artillery and/or towed artillery would be a GREAT and fun way to clean out
spawn campers in tanks, too. )
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+1 :aok
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-1 i play this game to fight other ppl in fire and manuevor on the ground (although i will camp) but theres nothing worse than sittin on a base in tank town and getting taken out by a 17# gun on the next base or watching someone hit the radar with it. towed arty would only encourage this. there are many threads wanting to promote combat and not tactics that reduce it.
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-1 i play this game to fight other ppl in fire and manuevor on the ground (although i will camp) but theres nothing worse than sittin on a base in tank town and getting taken out by a 17# gun on the next base or watching someone hit the radar with it. towed arty would only encourage this. there are many threads wanting to promote combat and not tactics that reduce it.
I Think you are overestimating the range, it’s not a railroad gun. :rolleyes: Not to mention the terrain with its hills are protecting the base from it as it is. With that being said I’m not sure how accurate you think this is going to be, its a indirect firing gun so if I was to try to hit radar from the spawn for example, (because base to base is ridiculous unless there ridiculously close in the start in which there already porked in most cases) would take some time attempting to zero in. You would hear and see them coming for minutes before they even get dangerously close to the radar, Doing something about it is YOUR choice. Artillery was just as if not more important in WWII as tanks themselves. Whether or not they are going to show up isn’t the question, the question is when. May there be anything else I can reassure you on? :salute you would probly use arty as much as anybody else when its introduced.
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HTC's already "figured it out", it's called "Land mode" in fleets. The same process could be used for
self-propelled or towed artillery pieces.
(edit = this >>> ) SP artillery and/or towed artillery would be a GREAT and fun way to clean out
spawn campers in tanks, too. )
This AWwrgwy... :salute
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+105 mm
Long range shooting in a tank is fun and adding artillery will expand the gameplay.
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yup haul a couple of those next to a gv base and blast away :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:.
semp
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Big +1, heck I think that's a 2!
Anything that adds both realism and organization to the game is :aok
Even a Yak could be useful in leveling a town with a little teamwork as spotter. There would also be a little incentive for IL-2s to "scud hunt" farther out from airfields.
As far as implementation...the current spawn proximity would instantly put a town at risk to barrage from some arty types. A persistent group could simply respawn ad infinitum and level a town without leaving the spawn- they should work for that opportunity. Conversely, the attacker should not be spawn-camped.
Fix #1 is to reduce arty range. Less realistic tactically perhaps, but more realistic strategically. The x2 fuel burn factor works very well. The problem of spawn camps stays.
Fix#2 Is much harder. I call it the "FLOT" system. (FLOT stands for "Forward Line of Own Troops") In RW it is a fluid line in the sand that serves as a good wag for "friendly territory" vs "enemy territory." In AH I propose the FLOT being drawn directly between one friendly base and the adjacent friendly base along a front.
To deter spawn camps...
GVs would be able to spawn anywhere with the following restrictions:
1. Outside a given radius of an enemy base.
2. Must be to the rear of the FLOT a given distance. The FLOT would be defined as a series of lines drawn between adjacent friendly bases. This measure would prevent magical spawns to the enemy's rear. If an enemy base is surrounded, spawns can happen 360 deg outside the specified radius. In other words, the FLOT is gone, only the "no-spawn radius" would remain.
3. Outside a specified radius from enemy GVs.
(GV missions could be built with specific spawn coordinates for different groups as determined by the creating player, allowing for mass flanking maneuvers instead of simply getting spawn-camped en-masse.
GVs would be able to "land" anywhere they would be allowed to spawn in as defined above.)
Flak units (IE German 88s) would add a touch of realism to the game but would need to be restricted. Setting the right fuse would be an art but a mass buff raid at 20k could be decimated in minutes by a large group of nme players continually spawning 88s repeatedly along the buff flight route. The fix? Perk the 88 (both flak and arty versions) and only allow the flak version to spawn within a given radius of the nearest friendly base.
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This AWwrgwy... :salute
True. But you have people dreaming of hitting tanks, out of line-of-sight, in Land Mode?
:confused:
wrongway
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True. But you have people dreaming of hitting tanks, out of line-of-sight, in Land Mode?
:confused:
wrongway
never know what people are going to try...anything is possible in toonville.
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True. But you have people dreaming of hitting tanks, out of line-of-sight, in Land Mode?
:confused:
wrongway
lets say you have a tank by a barn using cover. tanks want support and arty starts firing. may not hit him until ten shots later but it will sure scare the @#$% outta him and make him move into the open.
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True. But you have people dreaming of hitting tanks, out of line-of-sight, in Land Mode?
:confused:
wrongway
You don't have to direct hit 'em. Maybe you might track one or more and then be able
to maneuver around 'em. :D
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lets say you have a tank by a barn using cover. tanks want support and arty starts firing. may not hit him until ten shots later but it will sure scare the @#$% outta him and make him move into the open.
That's one of the main goals of arty. Scare the hell out of them so they expose themselves. That or obliterate their cover, but we can't do that......
...yet :D
+1 from me :salute
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I realize that it would be that much more time consuming to code, but I would love to see a specific "spotter" category with a way to attach yourself to an arty piece. I think it would be fun to earn, say, 10% perkies for each gun you spot for.
On a more general note, I am all for any idea that increases the utility of the Jeep.
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I realize that it would be that much more time consuming to code, but I would love to see a specific "spotter" category with a way to attach yourself to an arty piece. I think it would be fun to earn, say, 10% perkies for each gun you spot for.
On a more general note, I am all for any idea that increases the utility of the Jeep.
Right-click or will we get to throw smokes to mark? The M8's (along with other half-tracks) utility might also improve.
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come on guys. my squaddie rebel and i spotted my 8"ers on the notorious V85 spawn point battle :ahand you can do it with a 105 too :aok
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There are multiple gv's that are already in game that have a variant with a artillery piece on them. The M4 Sherman, M3 halftrack, SdKfz 251, and even the Panzer IV all have variants with howitzers or direct fire cannons.
For SPA, there's the SU-122 (T-34 chassis), the Sturmpanther, the different flavors of Sturmtiger, then you have tank destroyers -- SU-85, SU-100, Jagdpanzer IV, Jagdpanther, Jagdtiger ... I doubt that there's been any tank put into production during WWII that didn't, at some point, have someone mount an artillery piece or anti-tank gun on; the question is just finding variants that went into decent production numbers. For the Germans, though, a lot of the howitzer conversions were on PzKpfw II, III, and 38(t) chassis that we don't have in the game, so they would need to be created from scratch. And several of the PzKpfw IV variants used an extended-length chassis that would require some modeling changes on top of the armor differences.
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Flak units (IE German 88s) would add a touch of realism to the game but would need to be restricted. Setting the right fuse would be an art but a mass buff raid at 20k could be decimated in minutes by a large group of nme players continually spawning 88s repeatedly along the buff flight route. The fix? Perk the 88 (both flak and arty versions) and only allow the flak version to spawn within a given radius of the nearest friendly base.
The idea that was rolled out previously to require setup and teardown time for towed artillery is a good one; you could vary the perk penalty for 'bailing' depending on whether the gun was mounted or deployed when the player bailed -- abandoning an emplaced artillery piece would lose full perks, while bailing on one packed up for transport could be counted the same way as bailing from a tank in friendly or enemy territory.
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:x i love the idea!!! :x
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All M4 tanks were also used in the arty mode all tanks from the M4s to the M60A3 carried gunners quadrants and a small plotting board.
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Here's the solution to self-propelled arty....
(http://www.410wing.cyberus.ca/barker/gballoon.jpg)
(http://www.wwiitoday.info/wp-content/uploads/German%20Observation%20Balloon.jpg)
When you get where you're going, you set up and it hoists a balloon like this over your point. Your gunner position is actually aimed from the basket, like the 8" guns on the ships are aimed from a control point rather than the turret itself. You can see further to spot where your shells land.
If the trees are some 150 feet (last I recall?) these balloons should go up to 300 feet. Maybe 500 feet? Enough to see where shells are landing some 8-10 miles away (not sure on realistic ranges, fill in with whatever value is right).
This does a number of things to keep these possible arty setups ballanced.
1) The balloon is highly visible. GVs can spot it and drive towards it, shooting the GV at the base, planes can fly over it and spot it easily. It's a nice "look here!" sign.
2) The gunner control position in the basket simulates the radio headset used by the spotters to change the firing coordinates. That in conjunction with the Land Mode firing system (angle, range, etc) will let you walk rounds in as long as you're unharrassed.
3) The arty would be mostly soft-skinned and easy enough to strafe/kill. Even if the gun itself is made of metal the crew manning it is not. This is a stand-off bombardment idea, meant to park miles from a town. That is your protection. That is your safety. It isn't meant to take out tanks (although we've seen shore batteries and ship guns can do that with a lot of practice) and it won't work so well on in-close targets because flatter trajectories will be harder to aim over obstacles (whereas longer ranges go up and lob downward on the target, avoiding small hills and trees, etc). Because your perspective is so high it will also be hard to aim short ranges. This keeps it honest, prevents some of the possible abuses in the MA of the system.
4) Rounds are limited, and there's still a reload time and a "fire, adjust, fire" preliminary ranging to help you get a mental idea of how far the target is from your current viewpoint. You would have to get a teammate to give you supplies
5) You'd have to stop, park, turn engine off, and something like opening doors (see PT boat, open the bomb bay doors just deploys rocket launchers) to send up the balloon. Until balloon is up you can't jump to the gunner position. Nothing overly long, just maybe a 5-10 second animation.
Done this way you get arty deployments, you get the longer ranges, but still the gameplay balance of being stationary, being vulnerable, yet giving that hope and potential to be very effective. Overall a good balance IMO, with the way I've described my idea here.
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Here's the solution to self-propelled arty....
(http://www.410wing.cyberus.ca/barker/gballoon.jpg)
(http://www.wwiitoday.info/wp-content/uploads/German%20Observation%20Balloon.jpg)
When you get where you're going, you set up and it hoists a balloon like this over your point. Your gunner position is actually aimed from the basket, like the 8" guns on the ships are aimed from a control point rather than the turret itself. You can see further to spot where your shells land.
If the trees are some 150 feet (last I recall?) these balloons should go up to 300 feet. Maybe 500 feet? Enough to see where shells are landing some 8-10 miles away (not sure on realistic ranges, fill in with whatever value is right).
This does a number of things to keep these possible arty setups ballanced.
1) The balloon is highly visible. GVs can spot it and drive towards it, shooting the GV at the base, planes can fly over it and spot it easily. It's a nice "look here!" sign.
2) The gunner control position in the basket simulates the radio headset used by the spotters to change the firing coordinates. That in conjunction with the Land Mode firing system (angle, range, etc) will let you walk rounds in as long as you're unharrassed.
3) The arty would be mostly soft-skinned and easy enough to strafe/kill. Even if the gun itself is made of metal the crew manning it is not. This is a stand-off bombardment idea, meant to park miles from a town. That is your protection. That is your safety. It isn't meant to take out tanks (although we've seen shore batteries and ship guns can do that with a lot of practice) and it won't work so well on in-close targets because flatter trajectories will be harder to aim over obstacles (whereas longer ranges go up and lob downward on the target, avoiding small hills and trees, etc). Because your perspective is so high it will also be hard to aim short ranges. This keeps it honest, prevents some of the possible abuses in the MA of the system.
4) Rounds are limited, and there's still a reload time and a "fire, adjust, fire" preliminary ranging to help you get a mental idea of how far the target is from your current viewpoint. You would have to get a teammate to give you supplies
5) You'd have to stop, park, turn engine off, and something like opening doors (see PT boat, open the bomb bay doors just deploys rocket launchers) to send up the balloon. Until balloon is up you can't jump to the gunner position. Nothing overly long, just maybe a 5-10 second animation.
Done this way you get arty deployments, you get the longer ranges, but still the gameplay balance of being stationary, being vulnerable, yet giving that hope and potential to be very effective. Overall a good balance IMO, with the way I've described my idea here.
This is interesting but a bit complex. Iv recently have gotten a new idea however. I noticed that in the LVT-4 The arty is able to fire well beyond its position 2 sight via tank commander when used right. Why don't we just get a modified commander sight. Instead of a circle for example we get something similar to the naval gun sight with its range listings. However we still do need a spotting system and krusty ideas like this, (however i preffer a piper cub ;) ) is whats needed.
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HTC's already "figured it out", it's called "Land mode" in fleets. The same process could be used for
self-propelled or towed artillery pieces.
(edit = this >>> ) SP artillery and/or towed artillery would be a GREAT and fun way to clean out
spawn campers in tanks, too. )
Didn't HTC take this out with the last version of the game? I've tried, on multiple occasions, to get the Land Mode, and failed.
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Didn't HTC take this out with the last version of the game? I've tried, on multiple occasions, to get the Land Mode, and failed.
ctrl Q and shift Q
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Land mode works for artilery although itsd a bit "automated". Basically knowing where you are on a map you can work out your required range and direction setting. Our clip board tells us where we are very accurately so we may as well use Land mode........ IMO we should have the ability to use land mode with rockets.
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The "not practical" part of artillery is still the same as it has always been:
Non-LOS shooting.
Using artillery as it was meant to be used, shooting a barrage at something you can't see. You need maps. Accurate maps. Then you need someone to tell you where your rounds are landing so you can adjust.
Figure that out then artillery can be practical.
wrongway
Wrongway, don't we already have such a system in place with naval gunfire from the fleets? (land mode)
Translating that to artillery, be it towed or self-propelled doesn't seem to me like a big deal coding or
game-wise. The ground game's due for some enhancement(s). You could have dedicated spotter type
planes "dialed in" to the artillery guys. The spotter brings his map up, clicks on the "target",
and all the cannon-cocker does is pull the trigger and that's where the round goes.
If the SP's using direct fire, no need for the spotter.
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ctrl Q and shift Q
Thanks very much, sir.
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Land mode works for artilery although itsd a bit "automated". Basically knowing where you are on a map you can work out your required range and direction setting. Our clip board tells us where we are very accurately so we may as well use Land mode........ IMO we should have the ability to use land mode with rockets.
I find THIS interesting.
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+1 :aok
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The "not practical" part of artillery is still the same as it has always been:
Non-LOS shooting.
Using artillery as it was meant to be used, shooting a barrage at something you can't see. You need maps. Accurate maps. Then you need someone to tell you where your rounds are landing so you can adjust.
Figure that out then artillery can be practical.
wrongway
+1
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Ok, here is my idea for use of Artillery-
It would take perks, Gv of course, to be able to use the Artillery. Maybe have this Artillery only available at Vehicle Bases and say Med Airfields. Lets say that we just average out from the many different calibre's of Artillery of WW2 and use a battery of 6 155mm guns. Now, lets say for 25 Perks you can access the Artillery Battery at said base, and along with a Spotter Jeep use this for GV assaults on town. You choose to blow your perks on this Artillery battery option, and have a limited amount of RPG (Rounds Per Gun) with the option of WP Rounds for TRP and then HE follow up for you fire for effect mission. It would be kinda the same as the W mode on the CV guns before they were changed. So, Lets say you ppick your point on town and fire your WP shells foor a TRP. The Spotter Jeep then relays corrections i.e. drop 200, add 50 etc. after a second salvo of WP that Spotter Jeep confirms is on target, the fire for effect order can be given at which point the Battery fires (can be salvoed I suppose) and Spotter calls out that they are on target or corrects for remaining ammunition.
I like the idea of a "Spotter" such as a jeep with instead of a .50, maybe a telescopic type rangefinder mounted on it. He then coordinates with the FCO back at base.
Maybe the ex Army in me is goin to in depth with this but I like the idea. Thoughts?
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This is interesting but a bit complex.
Not that complex.
Just drive to a spot, hit "O" to deply the balloon. Then you jump to the gun position, but it's 100-200 feet above the ground from your viewpoint. You're in land mod, do you just traverse your guns and fire, walking rounds to the target.
Most ot it's already in-game. The only thing you need is the animation to "deploy" the balloon. Have it so you can't start the engine with balloon deployed and the rest of it's already in-game.
Range, gameplay balance, all of that is built in. No special coding.
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Not that complex.
Just drive to a spot, hit "O" to deply the balloon. Then you jump to the gun position, but it's 100-200 feet above the ground from your viewpoint. You're in land mod, do you just traverse your guns and fire, walking rounds to the target.
Most ot it's already in-game. The only thing you need is the animation to "deploy" the balloon. Have it so you can't start the engine with balloon deployed and the rest of it's already in-game.
Range, gameplay balance, all of that is built in. No special coding.
not "O" that's to open the chute, when you bail. anyway using a balloon was probably done in ww1 but not ww2. ww2 needed a spotter, so get a friend to go in a plane and start adjusting fire for you. no friend to spot fire? then you better have line of sight to the target. this could be a fun addition. scotty has the right idea.
semp
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Not that complex.
Just drive to a spot, hit "O" to deply the balloon. Then you jump to the gun position, but it's 100-200 feet above the ground from your viewpoint. You're in land mod, do you just traverse your guns and fire, walking rounds to the target.
Most ot it's already in-game. The only thing you need is the animation to "deploy" the balloon. Have it so you can't start the engine with balloon deployed and the rest of it's already in-game.
Range, gameplay balance, all of that is built in. No special coding.
Its the spotting process i find a bit confusing, My idea krusty was have self propelled arty only be able to fire non line of sight by having spotters like jeeps, piper cub, and what not direct there fire and land mode.
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Ok, here is my idea for use of Artillery-
It would take perks, Gv of course, to be able to use the Artillery. Maybe have this Artillery only available at Vehicle Bases and say Med Airfields. Lets say that we just average out from the many different calibre's of Artillery of WW2 and use a battery of 6 155mm guns. Now, lets say for 25 Perks you can access the Artillery Battery at said base, and along with a Spotter Jeep use this for GV assaults on town. You choose to blow your perks on this Artillery battery option, and have a limited amount of RPG (Rounds Per Gun) with the option of WP Rounds for TRP and then HE follow up for you fire for effect mission. It would be kinda the same as the W mode on the CV guns before they were changed. So, Lets say you ppick your point on town and fire your WP shells foor a TRP. The Spotter Jeep then relays corrections i.e. drop 200, add 50 etc. after a second salvo of WP that Spotter Jeep confirms is on target, the fire for effect order can be given at which point the Battery fires (can be salvoed I suppose) and Spotter calls out that they are on target or corrects for remaining ammunition.
I like the idea of a "Spotter" such as a jeep with instead of a .50, maybe a telescopic type rangefinder mounted on it. He then coordinates with the FCO back at base.
Maybe the ex Army in me is goin to in depth with this but I like the idea. Thoughts?
I like your last part about the jeep spotting and cords. However if you think about it we don?t need perks on arty I think do to the fact that only very few bases would be in range if I were to spawn in the hanger and most are soft skinned open top vehicles.
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Sounds pretty nifty. I assume the incoming rounds would be visible in midair like CV rounds? If so, I think it would be a grand addition.
Wiley.
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not "O" that's to open the chute, when you bail.
What do you toggle bomb bay doors with?
What do you deploy rockets in a PT with?
It only opens a chute if you bail from a plane. In GVs it has no use and would be perfectly suited.
And if you noticed my suggestion already takes into account line of sight. You most likely could NOT shoot line-of-sight if you looked at it from the actual gun barrel. It would hit trees, or hills, or any number of things to stop you from firing line of sight.
By putting your viewpoint up in the balloon basket you can see the target (most likely with a bit of zoom for details) but you're going to have to fire up and over obstacles.
I think anything that makes the firing self contained is a far better idea. What do I mean by that? I mean that it's one object you're controlling. No complex cross-coding of relationships between spotters and incoming rounds. It's all the same single vehicle. No server-controlled AI arty. No separate jeeps driving around spotting rounds. It 1) relies only upon 1 player to actually deploy and fire, 2) is spotted at distances allowing defenders to move in and stop the attacker (and so is not unbalanced or damaging to gameplay) and 3) doesn't rely on any kind of "magic" server code that just makes rounds appear (like puffy ack), which means it can be hunted down and neutralized.
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I think if your going to use a spotter it has to be a land based spotter. I dont think ballons were commonly used in WWII.
One methodology would be to "deploy" him once the artilery was within range. The player would click on the map and the grunt would deploy to that spot. He could then be moved as per normal bailed pilot running/walking until he was at some point where he could view the shells fall via zoom view (binoculars). Like RL spotters he would be limited by local terrain as to the effectiveness of his view.
The game may as well then give the player the ability to adjust elevation and direction whilst looking at shell fall from the spotters point of view. Indeed firing may as well be done from this view. (just as the tank commander can now fire) moving between the spotters view and the artilery mans view would be just as it is now for moving between different views on many GV's. To move the artilery to another location would require the use of the view local to the artilery piece its self.
Long range arty then has a time factor (positioning the spotter) built into its effectiveness and limits its gamey component as a no risk rapid "automated town killer".
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Krusty, the balloon would be giant anyone can hit it. You would pretty much be killed as soon as you go up in a balloon. I'm not sure of a dirigibles use in WWII. Also, have streaks following the shell so you can see where it came from. Plus, I think they had thin armor so they are able to be hunted down by armored cars and light tanks. (More purpose for them than skirmishing.)
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Barrage Balloons were used in WWII only as a deterrent to keep low flying Aircraft from strafing Troop Concentrations, Assault Craft, etc....but, maybe a Pathfinder type deal. Say from a C47. Instead of the 10 troops, Vehicle Supps, Base supps, how about the ability when you select the troops in goon to have the option of selecting secondary and it is 1 Pathfinder used for the Arty Spotting?
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Say from a C47. Instead of the 10 troops, Vehicle Supps, Base supps, how about the ability when you select the troops in goon to have the option of selecting secondary and it is 1 Pathfinder used for the Arty Spotting?
i find THIS interesting
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Krusty, the balloon would be giant anyone can hit it.
Nah, see balloons were common, easily replaced... The balloon would only be a view station, a "come here, hunt me down!" flag to anybody within miles, but would not be a damage point. You would have to bomb/strafe/shell the actual deployed arty on the ground, right below the balloon.
The balloon is just the means to a viewpoint and to spotting the bad guys. The emphasis is on the gun itself. You need to nail the gun/truck towing it to stop it.
EDIT: Look, I'm not saying it's 100% realistic. It is a combination of things that is "relatively realistic." The problem is any other suggestion so far involves magic game code or trying to replicate 1 part of a giant machine full of many cogs without taking into account the other parts of the machine. Spotters do no good by themselves. Where is the arty coming from? Where is it parked? Does it exist or like Battlefield: Bad Company 2 does it just rain from the sky like magic?
My idea isn't 100% realistic, but it does cover all the bases and is much closer to existing GV play and code than any of the other ideas.
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Krusty, you are saying it's small, yet you're saying it's "come here and hunt me down" and can be seen for miles? Now I'm not sure about this. But, normally something big can be seen for miles.
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I'm not talking zeppelins, keep in mind. If you actually look around when you're at your town you might see the balloon over a hill a few miles out. That's your "I'm here" sign. The defenders can spot you. Now, the attacker using the balloon still can fire until the bad guys close in on him, and he can lower it, reposition, and redeploy it elsewhere (assuming he's not killed).
Or he can just set up behind a major GV invasion and let all his tanker buddies in front of him kill the bad guys as they sweep in to the town, all the while he's shelling it. You know how you can spot a GV way out but it's still distant? Same deal here. You can spot it, but it's still only some 20-feet long.
EDIT: I think that makes the difference, personally. All the other "Jeeps with binoculars" or "troop/commando with radio" stuff is about doing stuff with no threat of being spotted. The suggestion I've presented does not shirk from the fight. There would be a definite cat-and-mouse game between you and field defenders if you wanted to use this by yourself without any backup.
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I'm not talking zeppelins, keep in mind. If you actually look around when you're at your town you might see the balloon over a hill a few miles out. That's your "I'm here" sign. The defenders can spot you. Now, the attacker using the balloon still can fire until the bad guys close in on him, and he can lower it, reposition, and redeploy it elsewhere (assuming he's not killed).
Or he can just set up behind a major GV invasion and let all his tanker buddies in front of him kill the bad guys as they sweep in to the town, all the while he's shelling it. You know how you can spot a GV way out but it's still distant? Same deal here. You can spot it, but it's still only some 20-feet long.
EDIT: I think that makes the difference, personally. All the other "Jeeps with binoculars" or "troop/commando with radio" stuff is about doing stuff with no threat of being spotted. The suggestion I've presented does not shirk from the fight. There would be a definite cat-and-mouse game between you and field defenders if you wanted to use this by yourself without any backup.
with the artie shells coming in you can track it without the balloon already. whether they use the GV shell tracers or the 8" streams you can track it
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It's not always so easy to follow a tank shell back to the GV, especially if it's miles away now. This is smaller diameter than a shore battery or ship gun. Coupled with terrain clutter you probably wouldn't be able to spot it firing from multiple miles away. Not to mention the balloon gives you elevated position allowing you to be your own target spotter.
It's all tied in together. Everything serves multiple purposes. Without the balloon, you remain hidden, and also cannot aim/fire your shots properly.
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It's all tied in together. Everything serves multiple purposes. Without the balloon, you remain hidden, and also cannot aim/fire your shots properly.
That's why spotter aircraft can be added. Spotter aircraft can point the gun (if he's set as wingman by clicking or so) to the general area and receive perkies while helping the arty do his job. Or the gun can go solo and try calculating on his own.
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Instead of the 10 troops, Vehicle Supps, Base supps, how about the ability when you select the troops in goon to have the option of selecting secondary and it is 1 Pathfinder used for the Arty Spotting?
This is your Spotter....Artillery has no "tracer" that follows it...Naval guns could be the exception because as a British Para behind the Atlantic Wall on D-Day as the Naval Bombardment began, "Blimey Sir, their throwing Jeeps at Jerry!" 8" shells up to the big 16" shells can be seen by the naked eye. Artillery cannot. All you get with Artillery is the report when fired and then the splash of rounds. This is why I said "Pathfinder as a Spotter." He would send corrections to the Artillery Batt as far as add/subtract and fire for effect.
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This is your Spotter....Artillery has no "tracer" that follows it...Naval guns could be the exception because as a British Para behind the Atlantic Wall on D-Day as the Naval Bombardment began, "Blimey Sir, their throwing Jeeps at Jerry!" 8" shells up to the big 16" shells can be seen by the naked eye. Artillery cannot. All you get with Artillery is the report when fired and then the splash of rounds. This is why I said "Pathfinder as a Spotter." He would send corrections to the Artillery Batt as far as add/subtract and fire for effect.
So effectively, you've got a really difficult to detect town killer that is somewhere within a 30+ square mile area?
Realistic? Sure. Good for gameplay? I would be less inclined to think so.
The tracers might be gamey, but it seems to me the simplest thing to do to give some means of tracking them down other than organizing a grid search.
It's all tied in together. Everything serves multiple purposes. Without the balloon, you remain hidden, and also cannot aim/fire your shots properly.
It'd be interesting, one problem I could see would be if a guy that knows what he's doing pops the balloon to walk his shots onto a specific building in town, collapses his balloon, then has a pattern figured out to fire that will take out the better part of the town. I do like the balloon idea though. Other than the guy I mentioned above with way too much time on his hands, it seems like a good mix between ability to detect and effectiveness for the artillery.
Wiley.
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The "not practical" part of artillery is still the same as it has always been:
Non-LOS shooting.
Using artillery as it was meant to be used, shooting a barrage at something you can't see. You need maps. Accurate maps. Then you need someone to tell you where your rounds are landing so you can adjust.
Figure that out then artillery can be practical.
wrongway
already done this with CV guns
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That's why spotter aircraft can be added. Spotter aircraft can point the gun (if he's set as wingman by clicking or so) to the general area and receive perkies while helping the arty do his job. Or the gun can go solo and try calculating on his own.
THIS
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Better not suggest anything with an open top, the forum crowd will eat you alive.
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Better not suggest anything with an open top, the forum crowd will eat you alive.
Most SPGs have open tops. But that's an exception, because it uses indirect fire over direct fire.
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Most SPGs have open tops. But that's an exception, because it uses indirect fire over direct fire.
distance is your defence
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Speed won't be the best factor so shoot a few times, relocate and fire again.
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1+
if it comes into the game it be a very nice addition
just imagine a Battery of 8 to 12 guns sitting way off in the distance when your spotter in the air or in a jeep calls in the target. the first gun will range and once hes on the spotter calls in# of rounds during the fire for effect.
the command is givine and the lead gun calls his elevation, range and bearing.
all the guns are set and bang the all fire until the target is destroyed.
boy that would be something to see
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So effectively, you've got a really difficult to detect town killer that is somewhere within a 30+ square mile area?
Realistic? Sure. Good for gameplay? I would be less inclined to think so.
The tracers might be gamey, but it seems to me the simplest thing to do to give some means of tracking them down other than organizing a grid search.
The Rounds impacting on twn or outside town would be your reference point for corrections...that is how Artillery is called-in. You watch the "splash" of where the rounds land and "add-correct" by that. That would make that more realistic. Sure, th tracers make it a little gamey, but if ya take it away then it adds realism to it. Thank you.
Wiley.
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I was looking at it using the code they've got now. Do rounds impacting currently show the direction they're coming from? I've never noticed it, but I GV extremely rarely.
If the impact puffs were directional, then yeah, that would work and would be a pretty good balance between realism and ability to find the guy.
Without some means of determining direction, I was just seeing it as a way for people to obliterate a town nearly risk-free.
Wiley.
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Well, 8 and 5 inch shells have the smoke trail behind them (which I have never seen in any WW2 Doc or present). You would not need to know what direction it comes in. For example-Say y call in a grid coordinat (lets just say they provide an Arty Batt for certain fields etc..u would use the current Grid Ref Coord i.e 17,8-5 and then turn that into its own grid box so would do the same for more precise drop). You would see the round impact, and then would say "round short 200m, add 200", then another smoke (i.e. Willy Pete round). If it hits close to twn center or say 100m away, u then say " add 100 Fire for Efect" and WHAM, all rounds following should rain down right on town. Thats how the Miltary currently and since Arty was used on the battlefield had done it. Know its a little complex, but would make for an interseting aspect to the game...