Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: AKP on July 21, 2011, 10:54:09 AM
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Ok... we have all seen this. And most of us have probably done it. It is probably THE most effective way to take a base in the whole game. However... it has to also be the MOST unrealistic way... (well ok... one of the most unrealistic ways). Here goes:
I "sneak" my giant aircraft carrier, cruiser, and destroyers WELL INSIDE the radar range, and tower detection range of an enemy base. In fact... I'm going to park it right off shore... going back and forth right in front of the town. Then... Im going to open up with no less than 3.. 3 gun batteries of 8" naval guns.. and begin LEVELING every building I see. Stores, houses, government buildings, inns, taverns, farms, hangars, barracks, ordinance bunkers, cows, sheep... EVERYTHING.
But... no one in the town will say a word... no one will cry for help... no one gets on the radio, or telephone and calls in that buildings are mysteriously exploding. Why? Well... because the townspeople and the soldiers on watch were told ONLY to call in if they were attacked by aircraft... or ground vehicles. A 900 foot long, 150 foot tall behemoth right off the beach, with 5 or 6 support ships does not all into that category... so why alert anyone. Oh... and since they dont need to report the ships, they dont need to report the shells that are falling all over the base and town either.
Really?? :huh
Ok... now that my dramatic scenario is over. I know the reason WHY a task group does not flash a base. Its because the tower warning ranges are set up for aircraft, and ground vehicles. However... because of what I am describing above, I feel that they should also flash AT LEAST if the task force starts firing... if not when the CV moves within the tower warning range (which for those that do not know, is different than radar ring range).
Great lengths are being taken to make things more realistic, and take out elements of the game that are... well... "gamey". THIS... is nothing but gamey and totally unrealistic..
Have I done it? You bet. Does every side do it? You bet. It is a valid tactic given the tools we have to work with, and given how it works. But... if this were fixed, it would cause task groups to operate more in the manner in which they were intended... further out to sea. Not as a "super secret invisible whack-a-mole mallot" used to take town an entire town and base without anyone even knowing its going on until its too late.
Could task groups still be used to take down town and bases if this were fixed? Sure... but they wouldnt be able to do it secretly.
So can we please... please... fix this? There has got to be a way to make the base and town flash once it starts getting shelled.
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This morning I actually secretly sunk an entire cv fleet with my stealth 8 inchers. :lol
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This morning I actually secretly sunk an entire cv fleet with my stealth 8 inchers. :lol
Yup... been there, done that too. And just as "gamey".
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So how would YOU propose to "fix" this?
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Have a radar ring turn YELLOW (and flash yellow/red if dar is down) whenever an enemy fleet is inside that dar circle.
Make CVs beach themselves and capsize if they get too close to shore (or just increase the minimum distance a waypoint can be set before it "touches land")
Have AI use the SBs to fire at fleets effectively until some human player jumps into the SB, or have AI controlled SBs along with player controlled ones.
There are tons of options to stop this, many have been brought up before (and many of those by me, as well)
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So how would YOU propose to "fix" this?
Hard to say. That would be a coding issue. But... here are a couple of ideas (dont know if they would work or not... that would be for HTC to comment on)
1) There could be something in the town, on the base, and on the CV that would "detect" shells landing within a certain perimeter.
or
2) Damage occurring to any building or ship would set off a "base under under attack" alarm
Now... since a task group is essentially a moving base... I dont know if just the presence of one inside warning range could be set up to set off an alarm. But if it could, then there should be a separate tower detection range set up for that.
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So how would YOU propose to "fix" this?
He's basically asking for task groups to cause fields and other task groups to flash upon entering tower warning range at least, only flashing when being fired upon at the very least. I know, I read his post.
Given this criteria, it seems shore batteries should be able to cause a CV to flash, though that's unnecessary imo
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The most logical approach is to remodel the Task Groups into.....
wait for it......
AIRSHIPS!
Yeah!
That way they'd be considered aircraft and would set of the radar warning.
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Hard to say. That would be a coding issue.
Very simple if you would just allow a manned gun position making base flash just like a GV.
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Very simple if you would just allow a manned gun position making base flash just like a GV.
Genius... simple... but genius. (dont let that go to your head though :neener: )
You are totally correct. A manned gun battery should be treated as a manned aircraft or GV. (probably aircraft... given that detection range on a CV should be greater than a jeep :) )
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Simple solution: incoming rounds flash dar. No firing, no flash.
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Simple solution: incoming rounds flash dar. No firing, no flash.
That is an option as well... but I think Lusche hit it right on the head. Aircraft and GV's set off the base flash because they are manned, so the coding already exists for this. All that would need to change would be to have a gun battery that is manned send the same data to the tower.
This would mean that the base (or opposing cv) would flash even if you were just sitting in a gun, and not firing... if you were within detection range. Which I dont think is a bad thing at all.
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"Very simple if you would just allow a manned gun position making base flash just like a GV."
probably mean cv's hardly ever used, I say leave it as is.
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The most logical approach is to remodel the Task Groups into.....
wait for it......
AIRSHIPS!
Yeah!
That way they'd be considered aircraft and would set of the radar warning.
:rofl
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I could see if the cv is in dar, maybe something happens. You can still shell the town outside dar,. But all and all Im not into this suggestion.
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"Very simple if you would just allow a manned gun position making base flash just like a GV."
probably mean cv's hardly ever used, I say leave it as is.
While I agree that using CV's to attack a base would be harder, it would only mean that new tactics would have to be used. It doesnt mean that they would hardly ever get used.
I could see if the cv is in dar, maybe something happens. You can still shell the town outside dar,. But all and all Im not into this suggestion.
If they were to go with the suggestion of making the base flash when a gun is manned inside detection range, then you COULD hit the base from further out, without making it flash. But you wouldnt be able to sit right offshore and do it. Nor should you be.
Leaving it as is would be leaving it unrealistic and gamey... and in fact... way too easy to do. The recurring theme is that this is a game about combat... not stealing undefended bases without anyone knowing.
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What detection range are we discussing for the cv before base starts flashing?
I can take down a base with a tank without flashing it.
That said, I've only seen 5% of attempts to take a base with a stealth cv succeed.
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Personally, I would think it should be the same warning range as an aircraft... GV detection range would still be almost right off the beach. And if done properly, without anyone upping before the town and base are totally flat.. this type of attack can work most of the time.
I have been on both ends of it. It is very effective.
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With CV AAA and puffy ack as lethal as it is, I say a CV shouldn't be allowed to park off a field, even if nobody is actively trying to shell anything. This thing would have been spotted and sunk 100 miles before it got off shore of a major airfield.
But having AI shore batteries fire and sink CVs if they get too close, you wouldn't have this anymore. Either 1) People move a CV in too close trying to be weak/lame and it is sunk, or 2) They are actively USING the CV and up sorties to bomb/kill the AI SBs before they sink the CV. In that case -- if they are serious -- there's no problem. In the case of CVs harrassing airfleids, the AI will protect them and stop the milk runners or griefers.
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A visual aid to help illustrate my point.
(http://home.comcast.net/~princeak/cvflash.JPG)
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Well, can't argue with that logic ^^
+1
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^^cant argue with that either...now that you look at it that way :eek:
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I understand the OP's concern and wish, but if you change it to where you can't sneak a base with a cv then guess what. The cv's are just gonna be put in a far corner of the map and never used. Now if you can implement a way to stop hiding the cv's than by all means give the OP his wish to.
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Quite a compelling case you make AKP. :salute
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Not sure I would tinker to much with things of late. Too many people leaving because of changes they can't deal with. Not opposed to the idea though.
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My thoughts on flashing a base that is being shelled by a CV group came from reading this on the trainers site:
Bar-Dar refers to the green and red bars which appear at the top of each sector containing friendly and/or enemy. It simulates a countrys total air defense warning system of spotters and reports giving a general location of planes.
I highlighted the area that is pertinent to the flashing of a base when a CV is shelling. Don't you think those same spotters and reports would notice 5" & 8" shells raining down on a town or a field? Ever lived near an Army artillery range when they are doing live fire exercises? You can hear that stuff for miles.
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A visual aid to help illustrate my point.
(http://home.comcast.net/~princeak/cvflash.JPG)
Checkmate. :aok No warning while the town and/or base gets obliterated is silly.
So are CV groups parked in the low wake zones offshore. :rolleyes:
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Aircraft and GV's set off the base flash because they are manned, so the coding already exists for this. All that would need to change would be to have a gun battery that is manned send the same data to the tower.
Are you sure about this? Any aircraft or GV's will be manned, I've never seen an unmanned plane or tank just cruising arround. Have you?
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Are you sure about this? Any aircraft or GV's will be manned, I've never seen an unmanned plane or tank just cruising arround. Have you?
Hehe... my point was that everything else besides guns that are manned... set off the base alarm. So it should be easy to make a gun battery appear as an aircraft would as far as tower warning range goes... especially since they are both manned.
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Checkmate. :aok No warning while the town and/or base gets obliterated is silly.
So are CV groups parked in the low wake zones offshore. :rolleyes:
:aok
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So we want to replace dilligence with flashing lights?
In the real war, there were people who were tasked with spotting the enemy.
I routinely check bases that aren't flashing and have found some interesting things going on that needed attention.
Remember also that none of the countries is fully incapable of actually bringing a ship to a base without someone upping from it to drop a single bomb, die, and move on now that the enemy has been alerted and is on the way to destroy the ship.
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So we want to replace dilligence with flashing lights?
In the real war, there were people who were tasked with spotting the enemy.
Using that logic you may as well turn off base flashing all together. But, base flashing is the AI spotters who are supposed to be on the lookout for an incoming attack. Again... my point is, if they can spot a plane or a jeep, they should be able to spot a task force.
Many players are diligent as well. But if a base is not flashing, and the dar is not down, there are many other things that can get our attention first. Hence the reason the base alerts exist in the first place.
Remember also that none of the countries is fully incapable of actually bringing a ship to a base without someone upping from it to drop a single bomb, die, and move on now that the enemy has been alerted and is on the way to destroy the ship.
In some cases yes... and that would be true for the most part in LW, as there are a good number of players who dont know each other on the same side, dont listen to direction, or simply dont care. In MW or EW you have more of a chance to pull it off though, as the team is smaller, and for the most part, knows each other and will work together in doing this.
But I have seen it done even in LW too.
Again... its a matter of:
(http://home.comcast.net/~princeak/cvflash.JPG)
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Your complaint is moot. Everyone knows that since it's summer, some noob will up an SBD while all guns are firing on town and the boat is turning and there is a mission posted that they're waiting to fill up before launching the attack. :bolt:
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i dont think it should flash if it is just at the radar ring,or even do anything for that matter.once it closes to within lets say 5 miles then theres a warning that enemy TG is offshore.if not then there wouldnt be much cv use unless you takeoff just outside of radar ring,giving them time to up and report cv.
we all know how much of a sitting duck a loaded down f4 or f6f is coming from 10 miles away just upping from a cv is.
the cv wouldnt last long thereafter.i like krusty's idea of an AI controled SB.but i do not think the base should give a warning just because it entered dar ring.
by the time the first wave gets in lets just say theres 70% of the planes that upped from the cv are still up,30% had been shot down.
theoreticaly if the cv flashes upon entering the radar ring,by the time the mission planes show up to the field buffs are almost to the CV,now you have your 30% upping again,by the time they get to the field again the cv has buffs over it.lets say they sink the CV,its almost like launching a mission from a base you dont have.
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one more obvious issue that has been always been on, but never even been looked at.
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i would agree to cv flashing base only if hi-tech reduces city damage to 50% then white flag, spending a week trying to win a map boring.
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-1 to this, ONLY thing we have left not to have 4000 uppers. Do as I do, CHECK your bases every now and then, is that so hard.....oh wait to busy pick'n or not my job or that's no fun or whyyyyyyyyy :cry should we have to check bases let HT make ANOTHER easy button for all of us. Better yet and this is a real simple idea, do away with all cv's, that way there will be no shady players taking an undefended bases or anyone hiding cv's. BTW the map we have now(LW) what ever its called really should have NO cv's, biggest joke ever map way to small to have that many cv's on it. :salute
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need this guy at every base :x
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFzdleJarI0&feature=related
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+1, give the squirrels with cameras a rubber dingy.
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Some alarm should go off the second the "base is under attack". i.e. A town building goes boom or the first ack gun goes down.
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Do as I do, CHECK your bases every now and then, is that so hard.....oh wait to busy pick'n or not my job or that's no fun or whyyyyyyyyy :cry should we have to check bases let HT make ANOTHER easy button for all of us.
The CV being able to flatten a base in secret is a much bigger "easy button" than the base flashing. Again... by your logic the bases shouldnt flash at all... for anything. Have fun checking them. :salute
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-1 to this, ONLY thing we have left not to have 4000 uppers. Do as I do, CHECK your bases every now and then, is that so hard.....oh wait to busy pick'n or not my job or that's no fun or whyyyyyyyyy :cry should we have to check bases let HT make ANOTHER easy button for all of us. Better yet and this is a real simple idea, do away with all cv's, that way there will be no shady players taking an undefended bases or anyone hiding cv's. BTW the map we have now(LW) what ever its called really should have NO cv's, biggest joke ever map way to small to have that many cv's on it. :salute
Slight over-reaction. :uhoh
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Everyone I know would be completely oblivious to 8 inch shell bursts blowing up the town or base :rolleyes:
<What's that loud noise outside?>
Sometimes you don't need radar to see something is odd :D
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A visual aid to help illustrate my point.
(http://home.comcast.net/~princeak/cvflash.JPG)
:rofl :rofl :rofl :aok :aok
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The CV being able to flatten a base in secret is a much bigger "easy button" than the base flashing. Again... by your logic the bases shouldnt flash at all... for anything. Have fun checking them. :salute
Maybe no base should flash unless a player is manning the radar and yes I do check bases and have fun jumping a mission off a cv :salute
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In the real war, there were people who were tasked with spotting the enemy.
What!!!!! players would have to man radar......great idea +1:aok :salute
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"super secret invisible whack-a-mole mallot"<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< :rofl :rofl :rofl
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kinda funny,i seem to remember a bunch of historical factual occurances in ww2 that this would match exactly. force A just happens to attack where there are no defenders stationed by force B.if force B dosent find out about the attack,then force A captures town /base with little or no opposition,if force B finds out about the attack they then have to shift forces to defend,sometimes successfully sometimes not...lets see....few guys in a jeep drove to rome ..no one there,nobody believed them..anzio landings...one of the beaches on D-day....several places on russian front...ok ALL of france...well not ALL of france. several instances in norway ops.....channel dash with german capital ships, face it,in real world armies are not everywhere that is their occupied territorry......CHEEZE is now served,lol
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kinda funny,i seem to remember a bunch of historical factual occurances in ww2 that this would match exactly. force A just happens to attack where there are no defenders stationed by force B.if force B dosent find out about the attack,then force A captures town /base with little or no opposition,if force B finds out about the attack they then have to shift forces to defend,sometimes successfully sometimes not...lets see....few guys in a jeep drove to rome ..no one there,nobody believed them..anzio landings...one of the beaches on D-day....several places on russian front...ok ALL of france...well not ALL of france. several instances in norway ops.....channel dash with german capital ships, face it,in real world armies are not everywhere that is their occupied territorry......CHEEZE is now served,lol
errrrrr how about, what was that island about 3 hour flight west from LA.....pearl.......pearl..... .help me here........
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Maybe no base should flash unless a player is manning the radar and yes I do check bases and have fun jumping a mission off a cv :salute
I move that HawkerMKII and icepac's accounts only be allowed to man radar stations from this point forward.