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General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: vNUCKS on August 09, 2011, 01:44:42 PM

Title: Spawn Camping
Post by: vNUCKS on August 09, 2011, 01:44:42 PM
Spawn camping creates a unique difficulty in AH for those spawning in.  In aircraft, you are afforded the opportunity to obtain SA from the tower before choosing to begin your sortie, however a GV spawning from anywhere except the tower is not afforded this opportunity.  In real life, you wouldn't find yourself magically appearing in a situation where you had no opportunity to obtain some SA.  It seems only fair to me that the spawning vehicle should have the opportunity to obtain this SA before spawning, or better yet that enemy vehicles within gun range of a spawn area have their guns disabled within range of the spawn area. 
Title: Re: Spawn Camping
Post by: DEECONX on August 09, 2011, 02:09:29 PM
Spawn camping creates a unique difficulty in AH for those spawning in.  In aircraft, you are afforded the opportunity to obtain SA from the tower before choosing to begin your sortie, however a GV spawning from anywhere except the tower is not afforded this opportunity.  In real life, you wouldn't find yourself magically appearing in a situation where you had no opportunity to obtain some SA.  It seems only fair to me that the spawning vehicle should have the opportunity to obtain this SA before spawning, or better yet that enemy vehicles within gun range of a spawn area have their guns disabled within range of the spawn area.  


In real life, you wouldnt be magically transported miles and miles away to where the action was.  ;) Just be happy you dont have to drive it.
Title: Re: Spawn Camping
Post by: Tec on August 09, 2011, 02:32:00 PM
What he said ^.  Just drive from your base to the enemy base.  Voila, no more spawn camping.
Title: Re: Spawn Camping
Post by: vNUCKS on August 09, 2011, 02:47:40 PM
In "real life" you wouldn't find air bases every 30-40 miles across the landscape, but this accommodation has been made in AH for the purpose of gameplay.  The GV spawns are a similar accommodation for the sake of gameplay, to minimize excessive undue travel time to combat.  IMO though, the lack of the ability to obtain any SA of the battlefield when using them seems like a high price to pay for using them.  All I suggest is to allow the spawning vehicle the opportunity to obtain some SA before being fired upon.
Title: Re: Spawn Camping
Post by: AWwrgwy on August 09, 2011, 03:35:35 PM
In "real life" you wouldn't find air bases every 30-40 miles across the landscape, but this accommodation has been made in AH for the purpose of gameplay.  The GV spawns are a similar accommodation for the sake of gameplay, to minimize excessive undue travel time to combat.  IMO though, the lack of the ability to obtain any SA of the battlefield when using them seems like a high price to pay for using them.  All I suggest is to allow the spawning vehicle the opportunity to obtain some SA before being fired upon.

You already have the "delay" that allows you to turn your turret 180o before the campers can see you.

How many times do you try and spawn in before you decide a spawn is camped?




wrongway
Title: Re: Spawn Camping
Post by: vNUCKS on August 09, 2011, 03:39:53 PM
You already have the "delay" that allows you to turn your turret 180o before the campers can see you.

How many times do you try and spawn in before you decide a spawn is camped?




wrongway

And how does this in any compare to the SA available to aircraft before they choose to start their sortie?  How many times do you need to up a capped field before realizing it is capped... Exactly zero.
Title: Re: Spawn Camping
Post by: Tank-Ace on August 09, 2011, 03:44:37 PM
Nucks, anything that is relevant to the fighter pilots is what matters. If its not relevant then its automaticly to be despised, regardless of wether it would have a positive effect on the game or not.

Not my favorite rule of AH, but one thats there none the less.
Title: Re: Spawn Camping
Post by: vNUCKS on August 09, 2011, 03:58:12 PM
Nucks, anything that is relevant to the fighter pilots is what matters. If its not relevant then its automaticly to be despised, regardless of wether it would have a positive effect on the game or not.

Not my favorite rule of AH, but one thats there none the less.

My typical GV mission is in an M3 to either to resupply a base or bring troops for capture; my most common sortie is an attack one.  I suspect that the vast majority of GV vs. GV kills are the result of spawn camping, and this belief is based upon my personal experience and the experience of those that excel in GV's.  The unrealistic conditions that spawn camping creates makes GV battles seem absurd to me, and as a result I typically do not engage in them.  GV's have a lot to offer in both strategic and tactical operations, but imho the dynamics of spawn camping cause many players to avoid them.
Title: Re: Spawn Camping
Post by: Tank-Ace on August 09, 2011, 04:05:00 PM
I agree with you. I'm all for afermative action for GV's, but like I said, it its not relevant to fighter pilots, its not important at best, and usually degrades into a "you already have ground to drive on, what more do you need?" argument between the tankers and the flyers.

Again, not my favorite rule of the AH community, but one thats there all the same.
Title: Re: Spawn Camping
Post by: vNUCKS on August 09, 2011, 04:26:54 PM
I agree with you. I'm all for afermative action for GV's, but like I said, it its not relevant to fighter pilots, its not important at best, and usually degrades into a "you already have ground to drive on, what more do you need?" argument between the tankers and the flyers.

Again, not my favorite rule of the AH community, but one thats there all the same.

My point is, that the typical fighter pilot won't immerse himself into a fight without some knowledge of what he's getting himself into.  And this is what prevents him from joining the typical GV fight.
Title: Re: Spawn Camping
Post by: Chugamug on August 09, 2011, 06:07:03 PM
Removing the big "Camp Here" arrow might help some, of course the base would have to flash immediately when someone spawns in. Or have the arrow flash when the spawn is camped.
 
Title: Re: Spawn Camping
Post by: Raphael on August 09, 2011, 07:20:23 PM
hey! what is we try and see a solution another way?
please answer me (is an honest question) is the GV spawn concept here in AH a attack position towards the enemy? why not always put it then in a advantage position, yesh put the spawn in a more elevated surface and such! I mean, if the concept is a attack position im sure the General or whatever planner would decide to go to an attack from a nice SA view of the enemy territory! so advantage that it wouldnt be such a good idea to camp there but people would preffer patrol around the areas between base and spawn or city and spawn!

Please tell me if this is already on the "rules of making the MA field" on positioning spawns.
Title: Re: Spawn Camping
Post by: vNUCKS on August 09, 2011, 08:32:53 PM
Removing the big "Camp Here" arrow might help some, of course the base would have to flash immediately when someone spawns in. Or have the arrow flash when the spawn is camped.
 

That's a great idea, if only you're countries vehicle spawns were visible, it would greatly level the field...
Title: Re: Spawn Camping
Post by: The Fugitive on August 09, 2011, 09:43:53 PM
Spawn camping creates a unique difficulty in AH for those spawning in.  In aircraft, you are afforded the opportunity to obtain SA from the tower before choosing to begin your sortie, however a GV spawning from anywhere except the tower is not afforded this opportunity.  In real life, you wouldn't find yourself magically appearing in a situation where you had no opportunity to obtain some SA.  It seems only fair to me that the spawning vehicle should have the opportunity to obtain this SA before spawning, or better yet that enemy vehicles within gun range of a spawn area have their guns disabled within range of the spawn area.  


awwwwww  :cry  are the spawn campers ruining your fun?  Welcome to the club and the only way the game is to be played, after all HTC set it up that way, it must be the way it should be played, right? Just like hiding CVs and such.
Title: Re: Spawn Camping
Post by: DMGOD on August 09, 2011, 09:54:17 PM

awwwwww  :cry  are the spawn campers ruining your fun?  Welcome to the club and the only way the game is to be played, after all HTC set it up that way, it must be the way it should be played, right? Just like hiding CVs and such.

+100000000000000000000000000000000     :aok

Title: Re: Spawn Camping
Post by: vNUCKS on August 10, 2011, 01:33:38 AM
And on another note, now realizing that DMGOD and his petty minions should try offering something of value and substance to their posts but lack the ability to do so is a tragic loss to the AH commununity...

So, back on topic, does the denial of SA to GV spawners limit the likelihood that a typical AH player will engage in GV warfare, and would providing this SA lead to improving and increasing GV usage?  And if so, what would be the best way to accomplish this?
Title: Re: Spawn Camping
Post by: Tank-Ace on August 10, 2011, 01:54:02 AM
You'd need icons to get the kind of SA you want  :lol.
Title: Re: Spawn Camping
Post by: gyrene81 on August 10, 2011, 07:34:31 AM
So, back on topic, does the denial of SA to GV spawners limit the likelihood that a typical AH player will engage in GV warfare,
no. the "typical" ah player is here for the planes, the vehicles are just extra toys.

and would providing this SA lead to improving and increasing GV usage?
no. people will use gv's when the mood strikes them. providing crystal ball vision to every spawn point on the map won't make people use them any more than they do now.


And if so, what would be the best way to accomplish this?
you seem to overlook the fact that communcation and teamwork can overcome spawn campers. you want to know what's going on at a gv spawn, do a flyby or ask someone else to do one. if someone is camping a spawn, drop bombs on them or spawn in with other people. there are usually mulitple spots where gv's spawn at any given spawn point, 3 or more good tankers spawning in with 76mm shermans can break a spawn camp fairly easily. if they have air support at the spawn, that works even better.
Title: Re: Spawn Camping
Post by: VonMessa on August 10, 2011, 08:11:11 AM


you seem to overlook the fact that communcation and teamwork can overcome spawn campers. you want to know what's going on at a gv spawn, do a flyby or ask someone else to do one. if someone is camping a spawn, drop bombs on them or spawn in with other people. there are usually mulitple spots where gv's spawn at any given spawn point, 3 or more good tankers spawning in with 76mm shermans can break a spawn camp fairly easily. if they have air support at the spawn, that works even better.


^^^^^   This  :aok
Title: Re: Spawn Camping
Post by: coombz on August 10, 2011, 09:06:03 AM
"you already have ground to drive on, what more do you need?"

:aok
Title: Re: Spawn Camping
Post by: Tank-Ace on August 10, 2011, 01:45:36 PM
\ like I said, it its not relevant to fighter pilots, its seen as not important at best, and usually degrades into a "you already have ground to drive on, what more do you need?" argument between the tankers and the flyers.


Sorry Coombz, no looking at quotes out of context  :neener:.
Title: Re: Spawn Camping
Post by: The Fugitive on August 10, 2011, 06:45:39 PM
no. the "typical" ah player is here for the planes, the vehicles are just extra toys.
no. people will use gv's when the mood strikes them. providing crystal ball vision to every spawn point on the map won't make people use them any more than they do now.

you seem to overlook the fact that communcation and teamwork can overcome spawn campers. you want to know what's going on at a gv spawn, do a flyby or ask someone else to do one. if someone is camping a spawn, drop bombs on them or spawn in with other people. there are usually mulitple spots where gv's spawn at any given spawn point, 3 or more good tankers spawning in with 76mm shermans can break a spawn camp fairly easily. if they have air support at the spawn, that works even better.

But that's not how the games played. What your suggesting would make "tactical" sense and this game has nothing to do with tactics. This game is about twisting whats available to to do childish, less time consuming or challenging things. Such as horde base after base, hide CVs once captured, or the ever popular spawn camping to get hundreds of kills on foolish tankers that keep upping.

Why would people do any kind of recon flights? Why would people use time tables and way points to out line plans for a mission? Why would people spawn groups of GVs and find a likely ambush spot where the enemy GV would wander by to attack a base? If they did you might think this was a WWII game !  :O
Title: Re: Spawn Camping
Post by: Tank-Ace on August 10, 2011, 10:52:08 PM
Fugitive, you know how hard it is to get ordnance porked (by asking on country)? It just proves the mule-stubborn determination of the average AH player not to do anything even remotely resembling work, regardless of if it benefits the fight they're in.

This also seems to be extended into an unwillingness to do anything tacticly sound.
Title: Re: Spawn Camping
Post by: DREDIOCK on August 11, 2011, 06:25:29 AM
of course the base would have to flash immediately when someone spawns in.
 

Why? Just leave it as it is now where the base flashes once any enemy is within a certain range. No need for immediate notification.

Though the flashing spawn arrow seems fair.

An all around better solution would be to not have any GV spawn within XX amount of distance of an opposing GV. As defending GVs near the designated spawn area the actual spawn area would be moved either backwards, or laterally to either side of the opposiong GVs to maintain XX amount of spawn distance.

That spawn distance should be far enough that nobody can get an immediate shot. yet close enough that they would be within range of taking a shot within a couple of minutes of drive time.
Title: Re: Spawn Camping
Post by: DREDIOCK on August 11, 2011, 06:40:33 AM


you seem to overlook the fact that communcation and teamwork can overcome spawn campers. you want to know what's going on at a gv spawn, do a flyby or ask someone else to do one. if someone is camping a spawn, drop bombs on them or spawn in with other people. there are usually mulitple spots where gv's spawn at any given spawn point, 3 or more good tankers spawning in with 76mm shermans can break a spawn camp fairly easily. if they have air support at the spawn, that works even better.

^^^^^   This  :aok

You two were obviously not at the place I was the other night that was camped so well that a combination of a good deal of tanks, fighters,fighterbombers, medium bombers and heavy bombers carpet bombing the area didnt even come close to breaking the spawncamp.
Title: Re: Spawn Camping
Post by: VonMessa on August 11, 2011, 07:06:35 AM
Well, there are other options...

(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff107/tymekeepyr/SmokeyCampedSpawn.jpg)
Title: Re: Spawn Camping
Post by: gyrene81 on August 11, 2011, 08:06:59 AM
You two were obviously not at the place I was the other night that was camped so well that a combination of a good deal of tanks, fighters,fighterbombers, medium bombers and heavy bombers carpet bombing the area didnt even come close to breaking the spawncamp.
there are some situations where that will occur. controlling a base where your side only controls one spawn point from a single base and the other side controls multiple spawn points from other bases. and if air cover has to fly a sector to provide support, makes it tougher.
Title: Re: Spawn Camping
Post by: MaSonZ on August 11, 2011, 10:33:36 AM

awwwwww  :cry  are the spawn campers ruining your fun?  Welcome to the club and the only way the game is to be played, after all HTC set it up that way, it must be the way it should be played, right? Just like hiding CVs and such.
was waiting on someone to say this  :rofl i agree though, its part of the game. get used to it or dont do it.
Title: Re: Spawn Camping
Post by: The Fugitive on August 11, 2011, 10:42:00 AM
Fugitive, you know how hard it is to get ordnance porked (by asking on country)? It just proves the mule-stubborn determination of the average AH player not to do anything even remotely resembling work, regardless of if it benefits the fight they're in.

This also seems to be extended into an unwillingness to do anything tacticly sound.

That's my point. This game is no longer about "playing" a war game It's become all about "winning" the war game. There is a big difference between the two.
Title: Re: Spawn Camping
Post by: Scotty55OEFVet on August 11, 2011, 11:10:42 AM
You already have the "delay" that allows you to turn your turret 180o before the campers can see you.

How many times do you try and spawn in before you decide a spawn is camped?




wrongway

I cannot count how many times I am in ambush position, kill a guy, and while reloading he magically fires a second before he shows up in front of me. your buddy vNATEBO knows all about it. IU was killed at a spawn 3 times without seeing him before I finally found him....I mean before he finally appeared after 2 seconds of me sitting there
Title: Re: Spawn Camping
Post by: Tank-Ace on August 11, 2011, 12:37:17 PM
Its a different verse of the same sad song. They figure "hey instead of FIGHTING to earn the perk points so I can crash my tempest on take-off, why not win the war and cash in on the perk reward?". I happen to know several players that have earned most of their perk points that way.


IMO, that reward needs to be removed or scaled back. Maybe 10 perks in each category.... Maybe.
Title: Re: Spawn Camping
Post by: fbEagle on August 11, 2011, 01:45:34 PM
Yeah this pretty much sums it up...  :salute
(http://www.offdutygamers.com/wp-content/uploads/respawn.jpg)

Title: Re: Spawn Camping
Post by: Wiley on August 11, 2011, 02:11:32 PM
Heh, that pic always cracks me up.  Top-left guy appears to not completely understand the intricacies of his weapon.

Tank-Ace:  I don't think that's necessary, or even particularly relevant.  If war wins are how you get the majority of your perks, clearly you need that help, and there's no harm in giving them to you.

Wiley.
Title: Re: Spawn Camping
Post by: SmokinLoon on August 11, 2011, 02:14:34 PM
Its a different verse of the same sad song. They figure "hey instead of FIGHTING to earn the perk points so I can crash my tempest on take-off, why not win the war and cash in on the perk reward?". I happen to know several players that have earned most of their perk points that way.


IMO, that reward needs to be removed or scaled back. Maybe 10 perks in each category.... Maybe.

no no no... they want winz the map because they can put it on their resume'!  DUH!   :lol    Seriously though, some guys know how pathetic they are alone, paired, or in smaller more refined groups so they must be a part of a 30 man base raping horde to be on a winning team.  

The easiest way to earn perk points is to use higher ENY aircraft and shoot down low ENY aircraft (109F-4 > P51D), high ENY tank (Panzer IV) over low ENY tank (Tiger), bomb a town to rubble in a Ki87 or Boston III, or easiest yet resupply a completely leveled field by M3.
Title: Re: Spawn Camping
Post by: Butcher on August 11, 2011, 02:47:20 PM
And on another note, now realizing that DMGOD and his petty minions should try offering something of value and substance to their posts but lack the ability to do so is a tragic loss to the AH commununity...

So, back on topic, does the denial of SA to GV spawners limit the likelihood that a typical AH player will engage in GV warfare, and would providing this SA lead to improving and increasing GV usage?  And if so, what would be the best way to accomplish this?

This is coming from a Bishop who routinely has his entire country camping V85 then whines about it? Give me a squeaking break.
Title: Re: Spawn Camping
Post by: Tank-Ace on August 11, 2011, 06:19:59 PM
Lol, stupid terrorists, one of them has an RPG  :rofl!
Title: Re: Spawn Camping
Post by: fbEagle on August 11, 2011, 06:50:26 PM
I will admit it... I do particularly enjoy spawn camping. A big <S> to the designers of the T-34 85. Helluva Job!! i find it funny that people complain about spawn campers. if its camped DONT UP!!!  :O Spawn camping is a part of a reason my gv Rank is currently 6. But i guess i have to thank not myself but the geniuses that repeatedly ups Panzers. All i have to do is pull the trigger and send em straight back to the tower! So  :cheers: !