Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: JUGgler on September 11, 2011, 09:34:40 PM

Title: Instead of new vehicles
Post by: JUGgler on September 11, 2011, 09:34:40 PM
How about a new "war system" that includes "usefull and critical" strats "that actually matter to the game" ie: fuel strats that in total make up 100% of a countries fuel, bring them to 50% and available fuel would be 50%, bring them down to zero and a country would have only 25% to work with. How about troop strats? ammunition strats. Radar strats that degrade with damage, not just are destroyed when totaly Fd up. Oil strats that have a great affect on boats. ENY strats? these would make low ENY birds cost more when damaged, shipyards that when damaged make boats take longer to spawn?

While I'm at it how about a system that encourages folks to defend against hordes, either a warning system or a "delayed capture" idea?


How about anything that improves the general interaction other than vehicles and maps? The graphics and vehicles and terains and maps have all improved over and over and over and over again, no how about some idea that changes the "same ol, same ol" "status quo" that this game has become?


Please give me something that will make me desire to stay!!!!!!




 :salute



JUGgler
Title: Re: Instead of new vehicles
Post by: MachFly on September 11, 2011, 09:38:57 PM
It sound good, but I don't like the percent idea. I'd rather have it to amount of gallons. This would not really effect you since you can fly half way across the map with 50% fuel in that P-47, but Spitfires for example would be virtually grounded.
Or we can keep it at percent as you said, but make it 75% = no drop tank, 25% = 75% fuel, 0% = 50% fuel.

BTW why can't we have new vehicles and new war system?
Title: Re: Instead of new vehicles
Post by: JUGgler on September 11, 2011, 09:45:19 PM
It sound good, but I don't like the percent idea. I'd rather have it to amount of gallons. This would not really effect you since you can fly half way across the map with 50% fuel in that P-47, but Spitfires for example would be virtually grounded.
Or we can keep it at percent as you said, but make it 75% = no drop tank, 25% = 75% fuel, 0% = 50% fuel.

BTW why can't we have new vehicles and new war system?  




I like it!   :salute


JUGgler
Title: Re: Instead of new vehicles
Post by: Karnak on September 11, 2011, 09:58:16 PM
Grounding Spitfires and Bf109s, two aircraft with larger draws for players, seems unwise to me.
Title: Re: Instead of new vehicles
Post by: ToeTag on September 11, 2011, 10:42:15 PM
ENY has no claim on grounding "draw" aircraft?  Cummon you gotta do better than that.
Title: Re: Instead of new vehicles
Post by: MachFly on September 11, 2011, 10:44:34 PM
ENY has no claim on grounding "draw" aircraft?  Cummon you gotta do better than that.

ENY does not ground Spit9s that often, when it does you still have Spit5 & Spit1. Fuel will ground all of them. 
Title: Re: Instead of new vehicles
Post by: FBCrabby on September 12, 2011, 12:06:41 AM
Either way - war system needs a makeover,

it just leads to the question, what's the point of a destructible fuel tank strat when it doesn't do anything? yes woo 75% fuel... who cares

what's the point of factories when they don't do much of anything? Besides - they come back up quickly
Title: Re: Instead of new vehicles
Post by: ToeTag on September 12, 2011, 10:02:30 AM
There have been a lot of great suggestions about making strats relevant for a very long time.  I think you would have to hold a vote to stop all development and forum moderation to get this done.  I don't think that will happen.  Asking for this is like asking santa for a red ryder bb gun.  Foot in face and down the slide you go.... ;)
Title: Re: Instead of new vehicles
Post by: grizz441 on September 12, 2011, 12:48:14 PM
CAPS LOCK ENGAGED:

IS HTC WORKING ON ANY NEW WAR STRATEGY THAT WILL MAKE THE GAME STRATEGIC?  MOST GOOD GAMES ARE STRATEGIC.  MANY GOOD IDEAS HAVE BEEN POSTED THAT WOULD MAKE THE GAME BETTER IN REGARDS TO THIS.  THE CURRENT STRATEGIC SYSTEM IS THE GAME'S WEAKEST LINK.

Caps Lock Disengaged.
Title: Re: Instead of new vehicles
Post by: gyrene81 on September 12, 2011, 12:54:53 PM
has anyone seen a post by someone at htc as to why the strats were essentially taken out of gameplay? i don't recall seeing anything announced.  :headscratch:
Title: Re: Instead of new vehicles
Post by: Chilli on September 12, 2011, 01:31:20 PM
When / If the change comes about we will have those that will swear it is what has destroyed the game.

Two months later, numbers begin to pick up from former players rejoining after some older revision that had ruined their fun. 

I am in agreement totally that currently we have nothing better to do most of the time other than poke at each other on 200.  Every once in a while I find out a new tid bit of information about how the game "engine" works but for the most part, I just load up proper amount of ord to kill a hangar, a radar tower, or ordinance bunker.  The stupid barracks look so much like other structures that I just hit them mostly by mistake.

Ship guns were fun to mess with for a while and new tanks and tank changes are somewhat new.

HTC,

Nice work with all the changes.  The 3D models and skinners have done themselves proud.  Would you consider a step by step process of renovating game play engine?  Add a new strat structure or dynamic one at a time?  For instance, the factories advance and retreat, maybe tie that to repair time or something more evident.  Keep giving us more reasons to load ordinance or drive long distances in armoured "sleeping pills" to a target.
Title: Re: Instead of new vehicles
Post by: waystin2 on September 12, 2011, 02:44:51 PM
How about the games just fine, other than too many folks complaining. :aok
Title: Re: Instead of new vehicles
Post by: gyrene81 on September 12, 2011, 02:54:09 PM
How about the games just fine, other than too many folks complaining. :aok
you have the wrong attitude waystin, too positive.  :lol  not allowed.
Title: Re: Instead of new vehicles
Post by: waystin2 on September 12, 2011, 03:43:43 PM
you have the wrong attitude waystin, too positive.  :lol  not allowed.

You know Gyrene, after 4 plus years in game I now know that it is up to the players and not the developers to make it fun.  It's the truth and I am sticking to it Sir. :aok
Title: Re: Instead of new vehicles
Post by: skorpion on September 12, 2011, 03:48:49 PM
how about we add new GV's/planes and the new strat/war system JUG was talking about?
Title: Re: Instead of new vehicles
Post by: Chilli on September 12, 2011, 04:26:59 PM
Waystin,

Truth be told, we already have some options, that do give us more immersion and better game play.  It's called Axis versus Allies.  But because no one ever goes there, no one ever will.  :rolleyes:

Right now!  NrRaven, one of the coolest skinners, has a setup in the AvA with a BRAND NEW (revised) Kariela map.  The fields look like nothing you have ever seen and both air and ground battle can be had in a matter of just seconds.

Check the roster you will probably only find NrRaven there slumped over his laptop, tirelessly adding new easter eggs for players to find.......   (what players you say, eggszactly........  if you build it they SHOULD come!!!)

(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-8/809754/map-len-giff.gif)



Imagine if you will, stepping back in time..
The place… Leningrad.. The time.. The months between 1942-1943. The below set up represents a condensed glimpse of
The Siege of Leningrad

In a pre-arranged move Finland declared war on Russia and, using German equipment, attacked from the north. They were looking to avenge the Winter War and “teach the Russkis a lesson.A massive German army approached Leningrad from the south-west while the Finnish army approached from the north. By early November Leningrad was completely surrounded and cut-off from the rest of Russia.

Click Here to see all of the applicable SKINS and DETAILS for the 24 hour setup:  http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,319951.0.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,319951.0.html)
Title: Re: Instead of new vehicles
Post by: gyrene81 on September 12, 2011, 04:44:09 PM
You know Gyrene, after 4 plus years in game I now know that it is up to the players and not the developers to make it fun.  It's the truth and I am sticking to it Sir. :aok
:salute absolutely agree sir.
Title: Re: Instead of new vehicles
Post by: guncrasher on September 13, 2011, 05:38:39 AM
How about a new "war system" that includes "usefull and critical" strats "that actually matter to the game" ie: fuel strats that in total make up 100% of a countries fuel, bring them to 50% and available fuel would be 50%, bring them down to zero and a country would have only 25% to work with. How about troop strats? ammunition strats. Radar strats that degrade with damage, not just are destroyed when totaly Fd up. Oil strats that have a great affect on boats. ENY strats? these would make low ENY birds cost more when damaged, shipyards that when damaged make boats take longer to spawn?

While I'm at it how about a system that encourages folks to defend against hordes, either a warning system or a "delayed capture" idea?


How about anything that improves the general interaction other than vehicles and maps? The graphics and vehicles and terains and maps have all improved over and over and over and over again, no how about some idea that changes the "same ol, same ol" "status quo" that this game has become?


Please give me something that will make me desire to stay!!!!!!




 :salute



JUGgler

you are so awesome that you hardly get killed in bombers.  perhaps u should try to bomb anything that has a couple of fighters over it.

semp
Title: Re: Instead of new vehicles
Post by: grizz441 on September 13, 2011, 08:11:05 AM
you are so awesome that you hardly get killed in bombers.  perhaps u should try to bomb anything that has a couple of fighters over it.

semp

Yeah Juggler quit avoiding combat.  :lol  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Instead of new vehicles
Post by: The Fugitive on September 13, 2011, 11:09:35 AM
You know Gyrene, after 4 plus years in game I now know that it is up to the players and not the developers to make it fun.  It's the truth and I am sticking to it Sir. :aok

Unfortunately that is also the problem.

HTC has got to make the game work for the majority of the players, after all the more people enjoying the game the more people paying for a subscription.

In the old days you could pork fuel to 25% but they changed it because to many people complained about not being able to get to the fights with any fuel. I think killing Dar at the HQ did the same thing. Too often you would spend half the night with put any Dar, so things got changed.

People don't like to run supplies, people don't like to cap a base, people don't mind defending, but vulching stops to local upper and the horde is quick enough to get the bases before you can have defenders fly in. So in many case people don't like defending. So what does that leave, attacking. Unfortunately, as attacks become more successful more people join to be part of the winning team and now we have a horde.

Player bring this about but looking to have fun. I think players could be "guided" by game mechanics to do those things they don't want to do. Give them more perks to resupply HQ. Give them more perk/points to defend against the horde. Tie the acks strength to the number of enemy in a Dar circle, the bigger the horde, the more ack to give defenders time to up and defend. The smaller the horde, the less ack so small squads can still hit a base and have a chance.

There is plenty to do in the game, its just that a lot of it isn't fun, or glamorous, and you don't get a lot of recognition for doing it.
Title: Re: Instead of new vehicles
Post by: Chilli on September 13, 2011, 11:45:33 AM
Fugi,

I think that you and HTC are dead on.  We are so short attentioned.  My solution to HTC has been to make carrying troops MORE FUN. 

I love what they did with the troop animation.  Carry that a step farther, and let them shoot or blow things up.  Make C47s a formation and up the amount of troops.  Allow your chute running into a maproom to count toward captures (those things are hard to see and you can dip and hide once on the ground).  Have a Medic option for the M3 that is able to rescue "wounded" paratroopers and earn perks.

FUN ^^^^^^

After a while, it just becomes too stale when the uber leet pilots are able to fly their K4s, P38s, La7s, Me262s and Brewsters without anything to deter them.  The fight is always the same.  P38s and K4s always rope.   La7s and Me262s unshakable pursuit.  Brewsters pull out the grapling hooks and latch on to your six from the second they take off.  So, seen one P38 pilot and seen em all.

YAWN ^^^^^^^

Title: Re: Instead of new vehicles
Post by: JUGgler on September 13, 2011, 12:19:56 PM
you are so awesome that you hardly get killed in bombers.  perhaps u should try to bomb anything that has a couple of fighters over it.

semp

WTF does this mean?  please be more direct!!!! or take your typing hand out of your pants!!

BTW  I would PWN you as the "Boston Strangler"   :rock

JUGgler
Title: Re: Instead of new vehicles
Post by: guncrasher on September 13, 2011, 04:59:44 PM
WTF does this mean?  please be more direct!!!! or take your typing hand out of your pants!!

BTW  I would PWN you as the "Boston Strangler"   :rock

JUGgler

I know your cartoon pilot is better than my cartoon pilot.  but I bet my dad can kick your dad's arse  :rock.



semp
Title: Re: Instead of new vehicles
Post by: Tank-Ace on September 13, 2011, 06:23:05 PM
Grounding Spitfires and Bf109s, two aircraft with larger draws for players, seems unwise to me.

Lol, no one has suggested grounding certian aircraft. We have an ENY 40 spitfire and an ENY 40 Bf 109. 109's aren't really low ENY either, lowest is 20. Biggest victems of the "ENY strat" (which I want, btw) will be perk planes, spittards, niki dweebs, and lala drivers. Can't think of any other low eny plane that doesn't have a higher ENY brother.
Title: Re: Instead of new vehicles
Post by: hyzer on September 14, 2011, 09:33:50 AM

Player bring this about but looking to have fun. I think players could be "guided" by game mechanics to do those things they don't want to do. Give them more perks to resupply HQ. Give them more perk/points to defend against the horde. Tie the acks strength to the number of enemy in a Dar circle, the bigger the horde, the more ack to give defenders time to up and defend. The smaller the horde, the less ack so small squads can still hit a base and have a chance.


Increasing the lethality of ack based on numbers in the Dar ring is a wonderful idea.  Simple in concept and deadly in practice. 

+1

 
Title: Re: Instead of new vehicles
Post by: Wiley on September 14, 2011, 10:07:51 AM
Lol, no one has suggested grounding certian aircraft.

They're referring to the fact that a 25% fuel spitfire or 109 is practically 'grounded'.

Wiley.
Title: Re: Instead of new vehicles
Post by: Tank-Ace on September 14, 2011, 04:43:57 PM
Who cares? If you can't fly anything else with even the barest level of competence, then even the EZ mode sptifres won't help you.
Title: Re: Instead of new vehicles
Post by: Wiley on September 14, 2011, 05:52:33 PM
Why does it always come down to 'EZ mode blahblahblah'?  Regardless of how easy or not they may be to fly, it's to do with limiting options.  109s and Spits are among the most popular planes in the game, they're also deeply penalized by limiting fuel.  The same can be said for the LAs, the I-16, and a bunch of other planes.  With only 25% fuel available, it renders a bunch of the planeset useless.

The vast majority of people don't like their choices being limited.  People barely put up with hangars getting bombed.  Giving the other side yet another way to make people unable to fly what they want is deeply unpopular.

Wiley.
Title: Re: Instead of new vehicles
Post by: The Fugitive on September 14, 2011, 06:09:13 PM
Why does it always come down to 'EZ mode blahblahblah'?  Regardless of how easy or not they may be to fly, it's to do with limiting options.  109s and Spits are among the most popular planes in the game, they're also deeply penalized by limiting fuel.  The same can be said for the LAs, the I-16, and a bunch of other planes.  With only 25% fuel available, it renders a bunch of the planeset useless.

The vast majority of people don't like their choices being limited.  People barely put up with hangars getting bombed.  Giving the other side yet another way to make people unable to fly what they want is deeply unpopular.


Wiley.

EXACTLY! It is also far easier to bomb fighter hangers, fuel, ord, troops, and so on than it it is to protect them. So people gravitate to those easy/fun things and avoid the tougher more boring things that need to be done to slow them down like cap fields, do fighter sweeps, run supplies, recon missions and so on. The war has become very one sided with everyone on the attack. So the Bish grab 10 fields from the Rooks in 8 hours, the Rooks grab 10 from the Knights, and the Knights only get 8 from the Bish (we all know the Knights suck  :D ) in the same 8 hours. So maps last forever.

What we need is people who want to defend. The trick is dangling the right carrot in front of them to get them to do it.
Title: Re: Instead of new vehicles
Post by: Tank-Ace on September 14, 2011, 09:34:16 PM
If we threaten with the inability to fly their dweeb planes, they'll either defend, fly something other than the %*#$fire 16, or just log off, leaving us with a less over-croweded arena. The fights can aford to lose the dead-wood anyway.
Title: Re: Instead of new vehicles
Post by: guncrasher on September 14, 2011, 09:46:18 PM
If we threaten with the inability to fly their dweeb planes, they'll either defend, fly something other than the %*#$fire 16, or just log off, leaving us with a less over-croweded arena. The fights can aford to lose the dead-wood anyway.

or maybe they will cancel their subscription and if enough of them cancel, then you can play all you want in a single fighter arena :).

semp
Title: Re: Instead of new vehicles
Post by: Tank-Ace on September 15, 2011, 01:23:18 AM
If we threaten with the inability to fly their dweeb planes, they'll either defend, fly something other than the %*#$fire 16, or just log off, leaving us with a less over-croweded arena. The fights can aford to lose the dead-wood anyway.

Sarcasm
Title: Re: Instead of new vehicles
Post by: Chilli on September 15, 2011, 03:42:39 AM
EXACTLY! It is also far easier to bomb fighter hangers, fuel, ord, troops, and so on than it it is to protect them. So people gravitate to those easy/fun things and avoid the tougher more boring things that need to be done to slow them down like cap fields, do fighter sweeps, run supplies, recon missions and so on. The war has become very one sided with everyone on the attack. So the Bish grab 10 fields from the Rooks in 8 hours, the Rooks grab 10 from the Knights, and the Knights only get 8 from the Bish (we all know the Knights suck  :D ) in the same 8 hours. So maps last forever.

What we need is people who want to defend. The trick is dangling the right carrot in front of them to get them to do it.

I agree with Fugi.  There is much less incentivie to climb to 25k and above to intercept bombers than it is to climb there in bombers to fly merrily around the entire map and punch holes in any enemy airfield and most any aircraft that dare rise to attack you.  That is only one example of his wise insight into game dynamics. 

Make the game more dimensional, but how?

Again, I beg for a more active roll of troops.  Let them have a defensive roll also.  For example, the attacking forces release troops that actually fight their way to the maproom or whatever, destroying / conquering village buildings on the way.  Meanwhile the defender's troop carriers arrive with fresh infantry to hold off the advance through the village.  Animation could be elementary, just troops running or vanishing into dust (the way they do now Buffy style when they get "staked") along with buildings exploding as the attackers advance.
Title: Re: Instead of new vehicles
Post by: kvuo75 on September 15, 2011, 08:52:19 AM
The war has become very one sided with everyone on the attack.

QFT.


map generals constantly complain about "losing bases".. so what is their solution? "lets go take a base!". nevermind the 2 or 3 under attack. "JOIN MISSION!"


someone posted a great screenshot last week.. 2 sectors of green bar going to an enemy base 50 miles away from 2 sectors of red bar attacking a friendly base.    :rolleyes:


heres a crazy idea to mix things up.. remove friendly radar! only show red bar and dots, no green!  :noid
Title: Re: Instead of new vehicles
Post by: Chilli on September 15, 2011, 04:33:06 PM
Kvuo,

The problem with mounting a defense against a horde is, the "cap" that is achieved by design of the horde.  When done properly, aircraft and vehicles are not allowed to leave their hangars at that base.  Okay so you say, what is stopping them from coming from another base.  The answer is, in the time that it takes to organize a defense and make it to the field under horde control, a well planned mission will have troops going into the maproom. 

So how many times do I follow a general that makes missions to lead me to DEFEAT?  Now, there are those base defense specialists.  LTars were one of the most notable squads in this respect.  You sir are one of those that I put in that category.  When I see your name associated with a base defense, I know to pay close attention to vehicle hangars, spawns, and every singe manned ack.  Besides the exceptional gunners and the few "in yo face" players, it makes more sense to advance the country's turf in another direction.  Besides having a better chance of survival, it actually helps to balance the numbers around the map.  IMHO the more map battles the smaller the hordes become. 

It is a feature of the 75% town percentage that large numbers roll bases.  If you want to get rid of the large hordes, you have to do something different with how fields are captured (PERIOD).
Title: Re: Instead of new vehicles
Post by: lyric1 on September 15, 2011, 04:58:04 PM
Rather have new Vehicles.
Title: Re: Instead of new vehicles
Post by: Wiley on September 15, 2011, 06:20:21 PM
The problem with the strategy system is, the country that wins does it by taking bases faster than the other countries.  If I were to have 120 people who were dedicated to honestly following my commands, I'd send 50 of them to horde and roll bases on one front and 50 to horde on the other doing the same thing.  The remaining 20, I would put to work on both fronts porking enemy ords.

That is how to 'win the war'.  Anything other than that is essentially slowing down your country's ability to win the war.

Your country is far better off taking a base while the other country is taking one of yours.  You can always come back later and take it back when there aren't any of those pesky red aircraft in the area, or at least not enough to oppose your horde.

I'm not complaining or saying this is how the game should be played, but given the way the game works, I am just stating the facts as I see them.

Chilli's also got it dead on with this part:

The problem with mounting a defense against a horde is, the "cap" that is achieved by design of the horde.  When done properly, aircraft and vehicles are not allowed to leave their hangars at that base.  Okay so you say, what is stopping them from coming from another base.  The answer is, in the time that it takes to organize a defense and make it to the field under horde control, a well planned mission will have troops going into the maproom. 

And this is why having strats affect gameplay never works.  Unless a horde is met instantly with a superior force, it works out exactly as Chilli describes it.  By making losing the defense weaken your capability to fight, through inability to up with enough fuel or whatever, the only thing it does is demoralize and frustrate the losing side to the point of ineffectiveness.  This is neither fun, nor compelling gameplay.

What's the solution?  I haven't the foggiest, but this is the problem that needs to be overcome as I see it though.

Wiley.
Title: Re: Instead of new vehicles
Post by: JUGgler on September 15, 2011, 07:48:56 PM
Kvuo,

The problem with mounting a defense against a horde is, the "cap" that is achieved by design of the horde.  When done properly, aircraft and vehicles are not allowed to leave their hangars at that base.  Okay so you say, what is stopping them from coming from another base.  The answer is, in the time that it takes to organize a defense and make it to the field under horde control, a well planned mission will have troops going into the maproom.   

Very true, and this is why there should be "dead time" for bases where noone can use a base that has been filled with 10 troops for a set time, giving ample time for those who wish to contest the base CAN! and those who put the 10 troops in will have to defend it!!

20-30 minute "contested" time for base capture. All town ack and buildings stay down for this time and the base is inert and belongs to noone!

 :aok


JUGgler
Title: Re: Instead of new vehicles
Post by: Chilli on September 16, 2011, 04:04:45 AM
I would much prefer to have the AI troops battle it out, than to have one group sit on top of the other groups airfield and pick them off as soon as they touch the runway (just to remind them who is really in charge of their airfield).  This does not meet the criteria quoted for having base capture in the first place...... to promote air combat.

I could be wrong, but I believe that if carrying troops were made more fun (for example C47s have formations), more folks would bring more troops, especially if they got a chance to see their troops take over the village under attack doing something more spectacular than kicking dust on a mound of dirt.
Title: Re: Instead of new vehicles
Post by: wil3ur on September 16, 2011, 11:37:41 AM
You know... that might actually be interesting.

AI Battle for town...  It initially is assaulted and 'deacked' allowing troops to enter town, at which point the arena states:

SYSTEM:  Battle for A231 Commencing

There can then be set damage amounts per side, w/ possible 'garrisons' or soemthign similar GV's could help assult with.  These are strengthened through dropping of supplies, and weakened through attrition and friendly GV/air assault on certain targets.  Once the set damage amount has been reached, the game would anounce:

SYSTEM:  Field 231 has been Caputred by the Bishops

At this point, field ack would come back up, and the town timer would go into the 'rebuilding' side of things for buildings to start popping.
Title: Re: Instead of new vehicles
Post by: JUGgler on September 16, 2011, 01:27:40 PM
You know... that might actually be interesting.

AI Battle for town...  It initially is assaulted and 'deacked' allowing troops to enter town, at which point the arena states:

SYSTEM:  Battle for A231 Commencing

There can then be set damage amounts per side, w/ possible 'garrisons' or soemthign similar GV's could help assult with.  These are strengthened through dropping of supplies, and weakened through attrition and friendly GV/air assault on certain targets.  Once the set damage amount has been reached, the game would anounce:

SYSTEM:  Field 231 has been Caputred by the Bishops

At this point, field ack would come back up, and the town timer would go into the 'rebuilding' side of things for buildings to start popping.

You are overthinking it!

A simple "timeout" for a base that is "contested", "contested" being--> 10 troops have entered the maproom unmolested. 30 minutes later IF 10 opposing troops have not entered then the base changes hands. If 10 "counter troops" successfully enter the maproom then the next set, whomever gets them in takes the base, and it immediately becomes fully operational.


The idea for the "timeout" is simply in response to how missions work and how the general play of AH peeps is.


The average capture goes like this--> Horde assembles in mission then launches, defending country sees a bit of dar but most folks are off doing something else and do no wish to auger (for whatever reason) to respond in a timely manner. Defending country does produce a few "diehards" but they are waaaay to few. The mission arrives and pummels all before it and set up cap. A few defenders up from nearby bases trying to get there, those that come in low trying to be intime are poored over by the horde, those that grab alt are too late!


A "timeout" for 20-30 minutes will allow a response, it is still no guaranteed and the responders still need to get troops in (still very much against the odds) but doable if there is enough commited. The original attackers now have become the defenders for 20-30 minutes and maybe the attackers again if their defense sux. The "back and forth struggles" would be epic. Not all captures would be fought over, I suspect most would still be easy with little defence required, but a few of them would be "mindbendingly" intense and chaotic  :rock


My idea does NOTHING to discourage the original "capture mission". Infact the same strategy could apply, they will just have to defend their troops for a time frame to ultimately be successfull  :aok



JUGgler
Title: Re: Instead of new vehicles
Post by: Wiley on September 16, 2011, 01:36:10 PM
So the original 'defenders' would need to get 20 troops in to take it back?

It sounds to me like an interesting idea.  What would happen if the second group of 10 didn't make it in within the time limit, but the first one did?

Wiley.
Title: Re: Instead of new vehicles
Post by: JUGgler on September 16, 2011, 01:38:32 PM
So the original 'defenders' would need to get 20 troops in to take it back?
It sounds to me like an interesting idea.  What would happen if the second group of 10 didn't make it in within the time limit, but the first one did?

Wiley.


correct
it stays contested untill the next set goes in


 :salute


JUGgler
Title: Re: Instead of new vehicles
Post by: Wiley on September 16, 2011, 01:51:42 PM
Hmm...  So once it's got 10 from each side into it, the only way to make it uncontested is to get 10 more troops into it from either side.

It would certainly slow down rolling bases...

Where does country 3 fit into this?  If they get 10 in, free base?

It could be good.  It could also stagnate the map completely.  I guarantee it would be hugely unpopular with the 'roll bases repetitively with as much speed as possible' crowd, which is the only way mud seems to move.

Wiley.
Title: Re: Instead of new vehicles
Post by: JUGgler on September 16, 2011, 02:21:41 PM
Hmm...  So once it's got 10 from each side into it, the only way to make it uncontested is to get 10 more troops into it from either side.

It would certainly slow down rolling bases...

Where does country 3 fit into this?  If they get 10 in, free base?
It could be good.  It could also stagnate the map completely.  I guarantee it would be hugely unpopular with the 'roll bases repetitively with as much speed as possible' crowd, which is the only way mud seems to move.

Wiley.

Well I wouldn't care if it was just 1 drunk that gets in for the ultimate capture, and YES if country 3 is that 1 troop then they win! The idea is NOT to stagnate the game but to offer the defenders a  realistic option to respond. The # of troops required for the ultimate capture is insignificant, the 20-30 minutes of 'contested" status is the "meat" of the idea.

As far as the "mud movers" are concerned, they could still move the mud however they desire they could even move on if they like, I'm sure "as we have now" squads that specialize in captures, we would have squads specialize in defending the potential capture as well as squads that specialize in 'counter attack" as well as "interdiction", GV defence/attack all brought on by the "timeout". You see the timeout gives TIME for a vast amount of diversity in gameplay to potentialy happen!


In RL the moment an attacker wins a possesion is the same moment he is the most vulnerable, <-- this is where all 'counter attack" theories are derived!



JUGgler
Title: Re: Instead of new vehicles
Post by: Wiley on September 16, 2011, 02:47:00 PM
The # of troops required for the ultimate capture is insignificant, the 20-30 minutes of 'contested" status is the "meat" of the idea.

Right, I'm on the same page.  I just wanted to understand how it would work.

As far as the "mud movers" are concerned, they could still move the mud however they desire they could even move on if they like, I'm sure "as we have now" squads that specialize in captures, we would have squads specialize in defending the potential capture as well as squads that specialize in 'counter attack" as well as "interdiction", GV defence/attack all brought on by the "timeout". You see the timeout gives TIME for a vast amount of diversity in gameplay to potentialy happen!


In RL the moment an attacker wins a possesion is the same moment he is the most vulnerable, <-- this is where all 'counter attack" theories are derived!



JUGgler

It's not a bad idea.  The downside I can see is, as it's presented above the ability to recapture might make it too easy for the original defenders to take it back.

I'm seeing this happening often:

Horde comes in, smashes base, drops 10 troops.  Base is now contested.
Counterhorde comes in, smashes CAP, drops 20 troops.  Base is now theirs again.

Maybe some kind of setup where if a base hasn't changed hands in the last hour, it's contested for 40 minutes.  If it's retaken by the original defenders, it's contested for 20 minutes.  If the original attackers take it back, it's contested for 10 minutes, or something along those lines.

Would the hangars be available when a base is contested?  The more I think about this, it looks to me like it's possibly overbalanced in favor of the original defenders.

Wiley.
Title: Re: Instead of new vehicles
Post by: JUGgler on September 16, 2011, 04:15:29 PM
Right, I'm on the same page.  I just wanted to understand how it would work.


Horde comes in, smashes base, drops 10 troops.  Base is now contested.
Counterhorde comes in, smashes CAP, drops 20 troops.  Base is now theirs again.
Maybe some kind of setup where if a base hasn't changed hands in the last hour, it's contested for 40 minutes.  If it's retaken by the original defenders, it's contested for 20 minutes.  If the original attackers take it back, it's contested for 10 minutes, or something along those lines.

Would the hangars be available when a base is contested?  The more I think about this, it looks to me like it's possibly overbalanced in favor of the original defenders.

Wiley.

There is a HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE difference tween smashing a base where limited #s of peeps are trying to up and defend and smashing an already inplace cap that is established and has alt!  :aok

As I said before the "counter attackers will have their work cut out for them as trying to regain control of the contested base (that will default ownership to the folks with troops in) will be very difficult and require some major commitment! I would say most counter attacks would fail miserably, but at least they will have TIME to try! There would be a forseeable goal for counter attackers to try and attain!


While "contested" the base is utterly unusable to any country!  all ack and buildings would remain down during this time

In fact the base could change colors on the clip board to signify its contested status, drawing more attackers and counter attackers in to the meat grinder!  :devil
 :salute


JUGgler
Title: Re: Instead of new vehicles
Post by: PFactorDave on September 16, 2011, 04:21:21 PM
You are overthinking it!

A simple "timeout" for a base that is "contested", "contested" being--> 10 troops have entered the maproom unmolested. 30 minutes later IF 10 opposing troops have not entered then the base changes hands. If 10 "counter troops" successfully enter the maproom then the next set, whomever gets them in takes the base, and it immediately becomes fully operational.


The idea for the "timeout" is simply in response to how missions work and how the general play of AH peeps is.


The average capture goes like this--> Horde assembles in mission then launches, defending country sees a bit of dar but most folks are off doing something else and do no wish to auger (for whatever reason) to respond in a timely manner. Defending country does produce a few "diehards" but they are waaaay to few. The mission arrives and pummels all before it and set up cap. A few defenders up from nearby bases trying to get there, those that come in low trying to be intime are poored over by the horde, those that grab alt are too late!


A "timeout" for 20-30 minutes will allow a response, it is still no guaranteed and the responders still need to get troops in (still very much against the odds) but doable if there is enough commited. The original attackers now have become the defenders for 20-30 minutes and maybe the attackers again if their defense sux. The "back and forth struggles" would be epic. Not all captures would be fought over, I suspect most would still be easy with little defence required, but a few of them would be "mindbendingly" intense and chaotic  :rock


My idea does NOTHING to discourage the original "capture mission". Infact the same strategy could apply, they will just have to defend their troops for a time frame to ultimately be successfull  :aok



JUGgler

I think this idea is very intersting and might actually accomplish the sought after goal.
Title: Re: Instead of new vehicles
Post by: Wiley on September 16, 2011, 08:54:58 PM

There is a HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE difference tween smashing a base where limited #s of peeps are trying to up and defend and smashing an already inplace cap that is established and has alt!  :aok

Not that big.  A good number of them are going to have to land and reup.  I'd say between the people who started out from the next base over when the attack was first sighted, and the people who are reupping after being shot down, it's going to be about equal, plus the original defenders don't have to put down the town again, they just need to sweep the sky.

Wiley.
Title: Re: Instead of new vehicles
Post by: JUGgler on September 17, 2011, 09:16:46 PM
Not that big.  A good number of them are going to have to land and reup.  I'd say between the people who started out from the next base over when the attack was first sighted, and the people who are reupping after being shot down, it's going to be about equal, plus the original defenders don't have to put down the town again, they just need to sweep the sky.

Wiley.


You are still looking at it thru narrow glasses. You see when a "mission General" posts a capture mission do you think it might be possible that he or even "random folks" might realize that counter attacks will be coming from nearby bases and actually go interdict the rout of those counter attackers?  I think yes. It would not be like you're thinking that 1 horde poors over the base then goes away while the counter attack horde has their turn. The whole battle would be immensly intertwined and complex in all its facets, bringing far more elements of diversity in actual warfair ( if you will).

Just imagine this, I would set up a base capture mission ( :rofl). With my idea I would take in to account the real potential of counter attackers coming from nearby bases, so I would maybe ask for a few "air superiority" ponies or jets to go deal with the potential incoming counter attack untill the base is captured, many planes will easily  have fuel and ammo enough to stay aloft 45 minutes or better. The shear possibility that some of these contests would turn out to epic in all facets of the game would be exciting for all but the very few who need to be absolutely sure of the outcome before they commit to anything!



JUGgler
Title: Re: Instead of new vehicles
Post by: Chilli on September 17, 2011, 10:30:54 PM
Although, I like the concept intention to disarm the horde, I disagree with the stalemate over capturing turf.  We need something entirely different to give rewards to organized warfare that is more than a bunch of locusts feeding off everything living on the ground and moving along. 

As in real battle the boots on the ground are the ones that get it done.  So, it would make sense to have the air power battle each other for control of the SKIES, and troop carriers bring the boots on the GROUND to receive all the hugs from the grateful villagers for rescue from the evil dictators of that other country (hopefully young and very attractive women).  The difference in our two suggestions that I see, your defense changes nothing about how the fields are targeted, it simply gives them more time to be defend and/ or reclaim. 

For example:  C47s now have formations so you are bringing potentially 30 troopers to spread out and attack the village objectives, building by building.  Their assault can be assisted by friendly armor and strafing aircraft.  The defender's best chance for defense is to run as many of their own troops to the same village.  M3s, SDKs, Jeeps and C47s will be the grunts for both sides. 
Title: Re: Instead of new vehicles
Post by: Wiley on September 19, 2011, 11:20:27 AM
 :huh <img src='notsureifserious.jpg>

You are still looking at it thru narrow glasses. You see when a "mission General" posts a capture mission do you think it might be possible that he or even "random folks" might realize that counter attacks will be coming from nearby bases and actually go interdict the rout of those counter attackers?  I think yes. It would not be like you're thinking that 1 horde poors over the base then goes away while the counter attack horde has their turn.

Why not?  What about this situation makes horde tactics suddenly not work?

Quote
The whole battle would be immensly intertwined and complex in all its facets, bringing far more elements of diversity in actual warfair ( if you will).

Juggler...  Have you...  Have you been playing in the same arena I have been for the last year and a half?

Let's take a look at that again:
Quote
The whole battle would be immensly intertwined and complex in all its facets, bringing far more elements of diversity in actual warfair ( if you will).

No, seriously.  Are you playing in a different arena from the Late War Main Arena in Aces High?

Quote
Just imagine this, I would set up a base capture mission ( :rofl). With my idea I would take in to account the real potential of counter attackers coming from nearby bases, so I would maybe ask for a few "air superiority" ponies or jets to go deal with the potential incoming counter attack untill the base is captured, many planes will easily  have fuel and ammo enough to stay aloft 45 minutes or better.

Great.  So those few air superiority planes will be equipped to deal with the 30 guys that are upping en masse to smash the CAP?  Grizz and Kappa can't be at every base capture.

Quote
The shear possibility that some of these contests would turn out to epic in all facets of the game would be exciting for all but the very few who need to be absolutely sure of the outcome before they commit to anything!

JUGgler

You're assuming a lot.  The first and biggest mistake is, you're assuming you're going to get the right players to fulfill your mission requirements when you go to take the base.  Take a look at how battles proceed currently in the MA.  Sometimes, there are enough people interested in the landgrab to actually bring ord and drop it on the enemy field once the furball gets pushed back over top of it.  However, every time there's a fight, there are always plenty of people willing to get over the enemy base and kill enemy planes.  It will be the same way under your system.  You'll have to work to find enough people willing to fulfill a role in your attack, but there will be a buttload of people who will be thinking, 'To have an effect on the game, all I have to do is up in this nice friendly horde and sweep the sky over that base?  Hooray!'  And then all it will take is a couple guys willing to fly goons.

My point is, it will be infinitely easier to find the resources to form a counterhorde than it will be to put together a

Quote
whole battle would be immensly intertwined and complex in all its facets, bringing far more elements of diversity in actual warfair ( if you will).

It would stagnate the arena, in horrible fashion.

Wiley.
Title: Re: Instead of new vehicles
Post by: guncrasher on September 19, 2011, 11:52:47 AM
it will be one epic battle, dozens of planes against dozens of planes.  then 10 minutes later he will post threads telling how the game is going down due to horde against horde battles.

semp
Title: Re: Instead of new vehicles
Post by: JUGgler on September 19, 2011, 12:06:41 PM
:huh <img src='notsureifserious.jpg>


It would stagnate the arena, in horrible fashion.

Wiley.

Well maybe I just can't see the superior awesomeness of the current system!

Maybe I need to take some bases then land and move on to the next capture over and over again. If I live it maybe I'll love it!

Or I could just continue to reject the game!!


Somehow the latter seems less boring   :salute



JUGgler
Title: Re: Instead of new vehicles
Post by: JUGgler on September 19, 2011, 12:09:01 PM
it will be one epic battle, dozens of planes against dozens of planes.  then 10 minutes later he will post threads telling how the game is going down due to horde against horde battles.

semp

I knew you were sitting at your screen hoping against hope to see me post again. Although your attraction to me is flattering it is also gross, please find a new idol!



JUGgler
Title: Re: Instead of new vehicles
Post by: Wiley on September 19, 2011, 12:25:35 PM
Well maybe I just can't see the superior awesomeness of the current system!

I never said the current system is awesome.  I happen to agree with you that the current strategy is lacking.  I am just a firm believer that if change is to be made, it should be a change that will actually work.  The first thing people are going to do if a change is made is try to continue on as they have done in the past.  When that occurs with the system as written above, I believe it would stagnate the arena.

The problem is, people don't log into the MA to be told where to go, what to fly, or which role to fulfill.  They want to get in and do their thing.  Making the ground battle so it requires actual skilled coordination on multiple levels in multiple roles is a recipe for failure.  I think HTC sees that, which is why the ground war is the way it is.

It needs to be simple so that casual players can make a difference.

Wiley.
Title: Re: Instead of new vehicles
Post by: grizz441 on September 19, 2011, 12:39:37 PM
The problem is, people don't log into the MA to be told where to go, what to fly, or which role to fulfill.  They want to get in and do their thing.  Making the ground battle so it requires actual skilled coordination on multiple levels in multiple roles is a recipe for failure.  I think HTC sees that, which is why the ground war is the way it is.

It needs to be simple so that casual players can make a difference.

Wiley.

I agree, changes to the strategic system need not make game play more "complicated" which forces players to use a lot more energy to do what they want.  However, I think there are plenty of simple changes that can be made that will make things much better without really affecting the difficulty of the game.  I'm getting tired of listing them but:

1) Increase strategic value of strats.  Provide player base with readily accessible information/intel in regards to the value of objects in the strats via clipboard map
2) Eliminate acks from auto upping when a base is captured.  Provide a necessity to defend said base or run supplies to it to get it back online.
3) Add bridges to be fought over that control either supply lines or unlock additional spawns based on who controls it.
4) Add central zone city/hub where ownership of affects supply lines to corresponding zone bases.  Place in central location of affected zone bases.
5) Add historical war statistics in game to show which sides have been winning the most wars, which squads have been capturing the most bases, which players are running the most troops, etc.  Like a "Heroes of the Last War" section.
6) Add health counter above friendly towns to show the current state of town.  If it is down show it to be red, heavily damaged yellow, light damage to no damage green.

Don't have to agree with all of the above but this is just the hamster turning.  Plenty of ideas to work with if there is an actual effort on HTC's part to make it better.

Title: Re: Instead of new vehicles
Post by: Wiley on September 19, 2011, 01:12:52 PM
I agree, changes to the strategic system need not make game play more "complicated" which forces players to use a lot more energy to do what they want.  However, I think there are plenty of simple changes that can be made that will make things much better without really affecting the difficulty of the game.  I'm getting tired of listing them but:

1) Increase strategic value of strats.  Provide player base with readily accessible information/intel in regards to the value of objects in the strats via clipboard map

To do what?  If it's to degrade the enemy's ability, it's not a good idea.

Quote
2) Eliminate acks from auto upping when a base is captured.  Provide a necessity to defend said base or run supplies to it to get it back online.
3) Add bridges to be fought over that control either supply lines or unlock additional spawns based on who controls it.
4) Add central zone city/hub where ownership of affects supply lines to corresponding zone bases.  Place in central location of affected zone bases.

I wasn't here for it.  Why did zone strat die horribly the first time?

Quote
5) Add historical war statistics in game to show which sides have been winning the most wars, which squads have been capturing the most bases, which players are running the most troops, etc.  Like a "Heroes of the Last War" section.
6) Add health counter above friendly towns to show the current state of town.  If it is down show it to be red, heavily damaged yellow, light damage to no damage green.

Don't have to agree with all of the above but this is just the hamster turning.  Plenty of ideas to work with if there is an actual effort on HTC's part to make it better.

Wouldn't 5 result in an unbalancing effect because 'Oh hey, Bish got more map rolls, they must be the bestest side to be on!'  and the horde rolls on...

As far as 6, I've always thought 'fog of war' should only apply to the other side's status.  Sitting in a tower that's presumably plugged into your entire intel network should mean you have the means to see exactly what's going on at any friendly location in the map.  This would help, IMO.

I get what you're saying, Grizz.  The problem is, to implement a more robust strategy system requires a completely different approach to map design, and I think that's where the inertia comes in.  The more complex ideas above require a complete rework of the map layouts.  That would have to be done all at once.  Pretty big risk to take on an idea.

Wiley.
Title: Re: Instead of new vehicles
Post by: grizz441 on September 19, 2011, 02:11:16 PM
Wouldn't 5 result in an unbalancing effect because 'Oh hey, Bish got more map rolls, they must be the bestest side to be on!'  and the horde rolls on...

Do you think the player base is that shallow?  My crew would be on the side that loses the most often, and I presume a large number of players like being the underdog as well.  If the game is populated by a majority of fair weather front runners then it wouldn't be good I guess.  Not like it'd be hard to remove though if the player base proved they really were that lame.
Title: Re: Instead of new vehicles
Post by: Wiley on September 19, 2011, 02:51:31 PM
Do you think the player base is that shallow?

I'm trying to figure out if this question is rhetorical in favor of my standpoint, or rhetorical in favor of yours. ;)  Forum board posters are not a representative sample of the playerbase.  There's lots of guys on here that would pipe up and say they'd go to the underdog side.  Most of them might even actually do it.  If that mindset was a majority thing though, don't you think we would see less hordes in game now?

Quote
My crew would be on the side that loses the most often, and I presume a large number of players like being the underdog as well.  If the game is populated by a majority of fair weather front runners then it wouldn't be good I guess.  Not like it'd be hard to remove though if the player base proved they really were that lame.

Sure.  There are always some who enjoy being on the pressed side.  Hey, at least you'd never have to worry about ENY again. ;)

The problem I see with the game is, dogpiling on an undefended or poorly defended location works, and works well.  You get points, you get perks, you get attaboys.  Your side advances on the map.  You get maybe 1 or 2 grumbles from the usual suspects about 'way to go, those buildings sure put up a helluva fight!' and you move on to your next base.

There is no ingame reward for defending a base as it stands now.  That's a major problem.  The only thing you do by defending is momentarily slow down the other side's offense.  Somebody possibly gives an attaboy if your side completely crushes an oncoming horde, but apparently that isn't as motivating as something that says SYSTEM: in front of it.  :rolleyes:

I don't know what kind of a carrot to offer people for defense.  Perks?  'SYSTEM: Rooks successfully repelled a Bishop attack on A34'?  That's the tricky part, is to provide people with a motivation to do the stuff that's good for the game.  I think that's part of the problem across the board.

Wiley.
Title: Re: Instead of new vehicles
Post by: The Fugitive on September 19, 2011, 03:55:46 PM
I'm trying to figure out if this question is rhetorical in favor of my standpoint, or rhetorical in favor of yours. ;)  Forum board posters are not a representative sample of the playerbase.  There's lots of guys on here that would pipe up and say they'd go to the underdog side.  Most of them might even actually do it.  If that mindset was a majority thing though, don't you think we would see less hordes in game now?

Sure.  There are always some who enjoy being on the pressed side.  Hey, at least you'd never have to worry about ENY again. ;)

The problem I see with the game is, dogpiling on an undefended or poorly defended location works, and works well.  You get points, you get perks, you get attaboys.  Your side advances on the map.  You get maybe 1 or 2 grumbles from the usual suspects about 'way to go, those buildings sure put up a helluva fight!' and you move on to your next base.

There is no ingame reward for defending a base as it stands now.  That's a major problem.  The only thing you do by defending is momentarily slow down the other side's offense.  Somebody possibly gives an attaboy if your side completely crushes an oncoming horde, but apparently that isn't as motivating as something that says SYSTEM: in front of it.  :rolleyes:

I don't know what kind of a carrot to offer people for defense.  Perks?  'SYSTEM: Rooks successfully repelled a Bishop attack on A34'?  That's the tricky part, is to provide people with a motivation to do the stuff that's good for the game.  I think that's part of the problem across the board.

Wiley.

Thats where I think the carrot should be as well. Not enough people work the defensive side of the game. No "glory" in it other than patting yourself on the back for a job well done.

As for the strats, I've been trying to think of what happened to them. I think it got lost in a map change or when they grouped them together, they changed how they worked. Originally they had zone bases that supplied the surrounding bases. The depots supplied the zone bases. If you lost the zone base it wouldn't auto resupply all the surrounding bases any more so porked stuff stayed down until they were player resupplied, or they recaptured the zone base. I liked that system, made for some really nasty fights for the zone bases.

Then they tried the new capture system. Basically you had to capture bases in a certain order. There was a bit of "play" in the model so you could take one track or another so the enemy didn't know "for sure" which base you were hitting next. I think that is when they took out the strat set up with the zone bases. The capture path deal was horrible and they went back tot he regular system but they didn't bring back the zone base deal. After that they lumped all of the depots in a single group to centralize them and added the auto "move to the rear" to make it easier to intercept the porking runs and protect the depots better (dar for your country use to go down a couple times a night). This protected the depots so well that nobody goes after them any more.

I'd like to see the zone system come back with the separate depots spread out around the map again. It would bring the porkers back out, and maybe attack/defense of those runs. Put the GV spawns back for those porkers to hit the depots as well if you must, but I'd rather see them NOT come back.

I'd like to see a timer on a base. Once the first object is destroyed...other than radar, two timers start. A 30 minute one that logs all those who rise to the challenge and work at defending the base. The second is a 60 minute timers for the attackers. If they don't capture the base in the 60 minutes those that made it onto the logs in the first 30 minutes and are still inside the dar area for the base win "Saving the base" points/perks.

I agree that something should be done as will to make the new owners of a base defend it for a certain amount of time. No auto ack, and maybe something like the "Save the base" idea above, log the defenders who just took the base and if it is still theirs 30 minutes later give those people points/perks.
Title: Re: Instead of new vehicles
Post by: JUGgler on September 19, 2011, 04:48:20 PM
Use my idea plus give perks to everyone on that country everytime a base is succesfully captured!

Maybe even take equal perks from the country that lost it!


"fighter perks"  :aok



JUGgler
Title: Re: Instead of new vehicles
Post by: Wiley on September 19, 2011, 05:00:36 PM

I'd like to see a timer on a base. Once the first object is destroyed...other than radar, two timers start. A 30 minute one that logs all those who rise to the challenge and work at defending the base. The second is a 60 minute timers for the attackers. If they don't capture the base in the 60 minutes those that made it onto the logs in the first 30 minutes and are still inside the dar area for the base win "Saving the base" points/perks.

I agree that something should be done as will to make the new owners of a base defend it for a certain amount of time. No auto ack, and maybe something like the "Save the base" idea above, log the defenders who just took the base and if it is still theirs 30 minutes later give those people points/perks.

A couple simplistic examples illustrate the challenge with this kind of idea though.  How do you code in the rules the program goes by to build that list?

Guy upped from the base, heads out to jabo a completely unrelated field.  60 minutes later he's RTBing and inside the dar ring.  Does he get whatever the carrot may be?  I say he didn't do anything, doesn't deserve it.  Maybe the system just ignores the fact that what he did wasn't 'useful' and gives him the carrot anyways.  I could see a lot of hording to be in the dar when the defense carrot gets given out.

Same guy upped from the base, headed to the field that's the base of attack for the enemy, porks ords and radar.  Does he get the carrot?  To me that's helping the effort.  However, how does the system know which base is the one being used to attack another base?

Or, do we completely ignore retaliatory strike missions and only award the carrot to people that purely stuck around the base and either blew up GVs or shot down planes?  Maybe you only get the carrot if you damaged an enemy?

The devil's in the details designing a system like this in a game.

I like the idea having a base be 'contested' for an amount of time, but the conditions for a successful retake and the amount of time it's contested for needs to be very carefully set up.

Maybe supplies and/or troops being flown in could reduce the contested time.

Heh... looking at that, we run into the problem again of requiring too much complexity or action by multiple people means 'bring a bigger horde' to most.

I can see why little has changed on the strat front for a long time.  The system they've got now has its detractors, but you have to admit, people aren't leaving in droves due to lack of land grab strategic play.  It might be a simple case of 'good enough is good enough'.  The legitimate gripes I've seen when people talk about leaving are usually about hordes or HO's or other things of that nature.

Wiley.
Title: Re: Instead of new vehicles
Post by: guncrasher on September 19, 2011, 06:20:56 PM
I knew you were sitting at your screen hoping against hope to see me post again. Although your attraction to me is flattering it is also gross, please find a new idol!



JUGgler

that's funny I almost fell off my hospital bed reading this as I was waiting to be released.  I got low standards but not that low.  

Use my idea plus give perks to everyone on that country everytime a base is succesfully captured!

Maybe even take equal perks from the country that lost it!


"fighter perks"  :aok



JUGgler

interesting idea but what about the players who will do this?

-oh cool leave my computer on over night my country is hording and those are free perks.

-oh crap base about to be taken, hey guess what? alt f4 does really save perkies.

in addition a strat system that causes resources to be limited by percentage doesnt affect all airplanes the same.  a b17 with 50% fuel will still fly for a long time, same for lancs, jugs, ponies.  but a c205, la7, spit 16  will be limited to minutes.

most buffs with 25% fuel will fly for a long time.  but if you limit some airplanes to 50% or 25%, you will see mass exodus to another country faster than you can up the eny of the country with increasing player population.   and that's all it will accomplish if massive strat raids were to lower ammo/fuel capacity.

you will have two options either switch or log out.  either choice is bad for the game.  but look on the bright side, there will be ONE (perhaps none)  fight over the strats then it's all over for the country with diminished resources.

semp
Title: Re: Instead of new vehicles
Post by: The Fugitive on September 19, 2011, 10:12:30 PM
Well WIley, much like the "ditch" model with one gear an inch of the runway, you win some and you loose some. There has to be a line drawn some place. I figured comparing the 30 minute log and the final log and matching that group of names as winners for points/perk was a good compromise. I keeps players in long enough, and weeds out those that start out there but leave when the going gets tough.

With any add on that could/may get added there are going to have to be compromises.