Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Scotty55OEFVet on September 13, 2011, 06:30:11 PM
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Ok guys, I am currently going to school for an Associates Degree in Computer Science. There has been a few problems with some courses and my GPA has been affected by it. So, long story short the VA will not pay for my courses until this is taken care of and it may be a little while due to the fact I need to pay almost $600 to be able to register for my next cluster of courses. What I am asking is this:
I know that we have a community of guys that all have their respective careers and such. What I am looking for is someone who would take the time to possibly make a few tutorials for me on how to write code for programs etc. I am very interested in learning and I am a sponge when given the proper instruction. So, if any of you Software Genius' have the extra time and would be willing to teach me I would be very thankful. Just write let me know by leaving me an email or even a Phone number to get in contact with you. As I said, it would mean a very lot to me and I would not even mind if somewhere down the road even tossing you some cash!
Sincerely,
ReDeViL2 (aka Scott)
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Ok guys, I am currently going to school for an Associates Degree in Computer Science. There has been a few problems with some courses and my GPA has been affected by it. So, long story short the VA will not pay for my courses until this is taken care of and it may be a little while due to the fact I need to pay almost $600 to be able to register for my next cluster of courses. What I am asking is this:
I know that we have a community of guys that all have their respective careers and such. What I am looking for is someone who would take the time to possibly make a few tutorials for me on how to write code for programs etc. I am very interested in learning and I am a sponge when given the proper instruction. So, if any of you Software Genius' have the extra time and would be willing to teach me I would be very thankful. Just write let me know by leaving me an email or even a Phone number to get in contact with you. As I said, it would mean a very lot to me and I would not even mind if somewhere down the road even tossing you some cash!
Sincerely,
ReDeViL2 (aka Scott)
Computer coding in today's construct attempts to emulate life in reflection...it attempts to reflect reality in an Object Oriented construct...and is hemmed in and by the standards adopted by the coders and architects who have their finger in the direction of that particular language.
It is impossible to address or answer your question unless or until you define your objectives and the language you wish to accomplish them in.
Oneway
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I guess I am looking for what some would say is the start of learning all types of coding. As I said, perhaps I would say Linux? C++? Im looking for more of a stepoff in the right direction. Where you would start someone new in the community and be the easiest for them to grow. IS that better?
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I would learn Python first because the syntax eliminates a large portion of what originally frustrates students and lets them focus on the logic of what they're doing instead of errant parenthesis (although these still occur :)). From Python you can take what you have learned and apply basically all but the most idiomatic things to other languages.
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First thing is you need to quit spelling so well.
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You could buy a copy of 'The C Programming Language' by Kernighan and Ritchie (ISBN 7-302-02412-X). Most versions of Linux have a free C compiler so you can practice. If you master the content of that book you will be able to turn your hand to anything later on including higher level languages.
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You could buy a copy of 'The C Programming Language' by Kernighan and Ritchie (ISBN 7-302-02412-X). Most versions of Linux have a free C compiler so you can practice. If you master the content of that book you will be able to turn your hand to anything later on including higher level languages.
That's not bad advice. I still have my copy from 1986... gads, I think I just opened it for the first time in 20 years..lol.
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there is programming and there is scripting...similar but different outcomes. if you want to get a feel for either, get yourself a linux system running. Ubuntu is very popular and fairly easy to use and due to the size of the dev community has a ton of tools you can install. Fedora is fairly good, but since it is the development bed for redhat/cent os there can be issues at times. Cent os is the non-labeled open source version of redhat enterprise, for slightly more advanced users. When you get really comfortable with linux you can try gentoo or one of the slackware linux distros.
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Thank you all so much. It is amazing that there are people you have never met that are willing to help you out in any way. Thanks guys. If I have any questions Ill ask one of you. And what wrong with my spelling lol? I was 2nd in the 8th grade Spelling Bee...lol, misspelled outrageous. Forgot the E lol! :salute
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I heard bad "spilling" and bad grammar go hand in hand with coding?
good luck with it
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The fastest way to learn coding is to first think up a problem that can addressed by writing a program. It doesn't really matter what but it has to stretch you a bit. And often this is the hard part, dreaming up something to do. Being able to write "hello world" to the screen in a loop 1000 times and how to open and read a file shows that you can write a program that has correct syntax and compiles without errors, now what?
A completely useless idea may be to create an array of some of the planes in AH by type. To do this you will need to open, read and parse a flat file of planes and types, then create the array. Once this works you can loop through the array and print stuff out based on something you enter at the screen.
Normally what happens with this type of project is you end up thinking up all kinds of new stuff to add to the program as you are writing it. Anything that you have to go to a manual to get the syntax for is good at this point. :)
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Ok guys, I am currently going to school for an Associates Degree in Computer Science. There has been a few problems with some courses and my GPA has been affected by it. So, long story short the VA will not pay for my courses until this is taken care of and it may be a little while due to the fact I need to pay almost $600 to be able to register for my next cluster of courses. What I am asking is this:
I know that we have a community of guys that all have their respective careers and such. What I am looking for is someone who would take the time to possibly make a few tutorials for me on how to write code for programs etc. I am very interested in learning and I am a sponge when given the proper instruction. So, if any of you Software Genius' have the extra time and would be willing to teach me I would be very thankful. Just write let me know by leaving me an email or even a Phone number to get in contact with you. As I said, it would mean a very lot to me and I would not even mind if somewhere down the road even tossing you some cash!
Sincerely,
ReDeViL2 (aka Scott)
If you are looking for a course to bring your grades up, find something easier. Coding is not as easy as they make it sound, especially when given as homework. It is one thing to sit down and write what you want the way you want, and another to write what your teacher wants, the way he wants and with limited information or specs (done by design). If you just want to learn start with data structures and design patterns and get a beginners book. Language is relevant but Java is probably your best bet. If nothing else everything comes free with it. Start with C++ and quit soon there after :lol
Also keep in mind that programming is both an art and a science. You need both and one does not replace the other.
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Shell scripting in Linux is a good intro to loops and logic. And Linux is free, more or less. I'd install it, then read a shell scripting tutorial like http://www.freeos.com/guides/lsst/ch02sec01.html (http://www.freeos.com/guides/lsst/ch02sec01.html)
Write a script to automate something, or use it to munge AH kill stats. Then try to do the same thing in Python or whatever language you're going to be taking in class.
Good motivator if you have something that needs automating of course. Last thing I wrote was a Perl script that sent e-mails with the scoring updates for a golf pool across all 4 majors after the guy who ran the pool quit because it was too much work doing it by hand as the pool got bigger.
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subscribing
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Another very good book is 'Algorithms Plus Data Structures Equals Programs' by Niklaus Wirth (ISBN-13: 978-0130224187) (a really seminal text on the subject). It will also introduce you to the concept of pseudo code. Often the best tool at a programmer's disposal is a piece of scrap paper and a pen.
You can go a long way to understanding programming with very little money. Have a look on eBay for the books or if you're even more resourceful and old fashioned, see if your local library has copies which you can loan. :banana:
I would second what people have said about Linux, essentially because it's a very cheap way to get yourself a simple text editor and a compiler.
Good luck young man :old:
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if you're already on a CS course why not just use the reading list and do the coursework? :headscratch:
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Linux?
:rofl
No
Go to this Microsoft website and click on developer tools at the center top
https://www.dreamspark.com/
Download either the Visual Studio 2010 or 2008 version (its free)
Install and start the IDE (Integrated Development Environment) and choose either VB or C# Windows Form project for your first project
You will have already created a program that can be run simply by doing this believe it or not.
On the right side of that web page is a column called "Get Training by Reading"...the second link down takes you to this website
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/beginner/default.aspx
Click the second option for Windows Forms programming and you will end up at this web page
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/beginner/dd435692.aspx
Click the first option and you will be up and running in no time
CAUTION: Programming is Fun and Addicting
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I code in C#(NET)...and have coded in C++ ,VB (NET and 6), Python...and vastly prefer C# to any other language
If you choose C# and the VS 2008 C# Express IDE, I will be happy to help you with your first projects
:cheers:
Oneway
PS: How is my spelling?
PS: Lastly, if you find yourself stumped, far and away the best forum to ask questions (IMHO), or search of answers is Stack Overflow
http://stackoverflow.com/
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...
You will have already created a program that can be run simply by doing this believe it or not.
and you've just learnt ... absolutely nothing about programming. which is why the best way to learn is with a text editor, a syntax reference (a book preferably) and a tutor/tutorial. I'd use an interpreted language so you can test what you wrote without messing around with compilers.
if a dev doesnt smile in recognition when you say "hello world" to them, they dont know their stuff ...
the best tool at a programmer's disposal is a piece of scrap paper and a pen.
:aok
edit: if starting from scratch, personally I'd suggest PHP. plenty of good books/tutorials out there, testing is just a matter of refreshing your browser window, you can start with procedural then move onto OO code, plenty of modules for different tasks etc etc.
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Slight hijack but I am in my high-school Comp Sci class right now lol...
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:rofl Linux, a command line C compiler and vi for an editor for a beginner? :rofl :rofl :rofl You guys forgot to suggest squeezing lemon juice in his eyes before turning on the computer also :lol
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:rofl Linux, a command line C compiler and vi for an editor for a beginner? :rofl :rofl :rofl You guys forgot to suggest squeezing lemon juice in his eyes before turning on the computer also :lol
Pico.
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BBEdit :P
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Hi
I'm a selfmade hobby coder and using a python :)
You can get it for free from:
http://www.python.org/
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:rofl Linux, a command line C compiler and vi for an editor for a beginner? :rofl :rofl :rofl You guys forgot to suggest squeezing lemon juice in his eyes before turning on the computer also :lol
Better than messing with the API and dlls.
Dos 3.3 and Turbo Pascal v2.0 would be better, but finding the parts might prove a bit daunting.
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and you've just learnt ... absolutely nothing about programming. which is why the best way to learn is with a text editor, a syntax reference (a book preferably) and a tutor/tutorial. I'd use an interpreted language so you can test what you wrote without messing around with compilers.
if a dev doesnt smile in recognition when you say "hello world" to them, they dont know their stuff ...
:aok
edit: if starting from scratch, personally I'd suggest PHP. plenty of good books/tutorials out there, testing is just a matter of refreshing your browser window, you can start with procedural then move onto OO code, plenty of modules for different tasks etc etc.
I disagree that a text editor and a text book is the best way to learn
Start a win form, drop a command button on it, wire up the click event, put some code in the handler and output it to a label
Voila...you are a programmer
With a simple click event you can then reach out to functions that either do something and/or return some value
Messing around with text editor and text book is the definition of boring and has turned off more would be programmers than anything
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Better than messing with the API and dlls.
Dos 3.3 and Turbo Pascal v2.0 would be better, but finding the parts might prove a bit daunting.
I have it :neener: DOS 3.3 and up to 5.0 I think and Turbo Pascal 4.0 and 5.0. I think I have a version of Turbo C in there somewhere too lol. Now, who has a computer with floppies? :rofl
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Messing around with text editor and text book is the definition of boring and has turned off more would be programmers than anything
the point is to simplify it so all you are doing is thinking about then writing code. if thats boring, you picked the wrong hobby/career.
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I have it :neener: DOS 3.3 and up to 5.0 I think and Turbo Pascal 4.0 and 5.0. I think I have a version of Turbo C in there somewhere too lol. Now, who has a computer with floppies? :rofl
OMG I was waiting for someone to reference BCC from back in the day... now all we are waiting for is for someone to suggest dos-4g extender... lol
On a more serious note, start with C or python and you can use either VC (visual studio) or gcc on linux. if you don't like command line editors such as vi/emacs/pico/etc... you can use eclipse +cdt.
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a couple of people in this discussion need to stop inhaling automobile exhaust. visual basic and c# from microsoft? seriously? nobody that wants to actually learn programming or scripting starts off with crippled buggy microsoft crap. not only that but you have a much bigger range of what you can do in linux than you can in winblowz, and it's free. make a mistake in linux, either reboot or recompile...make a mistake in winblowz and spend 6 hours trying not to lose all your files then spend another 8 reloading.
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a couple of people in this discussion need to stop inhaling automobile exhaust. visual basic and c# from microsoft? seriously? nobody that wants to actually learn programming or scripting starts off with crippled buggy microsoft crap. not only that but you have a much bigger range of what you can do in linux than you can in winblowz, and it's free. make a mistake in linux, either reboot or recompile...make a mistake in winblowz and spend 6 hours trying not to lose all your files then spend another 8 reloading.
Right... :rofl
Funny...after coding for 15 years I have never had that experience. Structural errors are always trapped before the Shell launches when testing...and the OS never crashes (XP W7)...as to logic errors they occur no matter what language or method you choose
Go ahead and play with your command line programs
I will stick to the worlds most widely used IDE for the worlds most widely used GUI OS
Linux :rofl
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Well obviously there is a spectrum of opinion. I suggested the old fashioned approach because he will learn more about programming in the long run that way. I really would suggest deferring going to more complicated IDEs until later. Even writing a simple console app can be daunting in MSDEV for example. You end up focussing on the wrong things. The more you do yourself with the simple tools the more you will learn and you can certainly transfer that knowledge to any language later on.
He did say he wanted to learn, and not immediately apply for a job in industry.
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not only that but you have a much bigger range of what you can do in linux than you can in winblowz, and it's free.
Give us some examples please. BTW, unless you are building a PC, windows is free. It is already on your computer. But I am more interested in what is the bigger range of what you can do in Linux.
FYI, the thread is about someone wanting to learn how to write code. What does the operating system have to do with that? Didn't I call you a nube before? Thanks for proving it :lol It is not a religion. It is software. Both windows and Linux have their uses. Calling one an absolute better than the other is foolish.
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Right... :rofl
Funny...after coding for 15 years I have never had that experience. Structural errors are always trapped before the Shell launches when testing...and the OS never crashes (XP W7)...as to logic errors they occur no matter what language or method you choose
Go ahead and play with your command line programs
I will stick to the worlds most widely used IDE for the worlds most widely used GUI OS
Linux :rofl
I'm a noob...
Are the major of the web servers running a apache/Linux?
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the ones that work, yes :)
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Well obviously there is a spectrum of opinion. I suggested the old fashioned approach because he will learn more about programming in the long run that way. I really would suggest deferring going to more complicated IDEs until later. Even writing a simple console app can be daunting in MSDEV for example. You end up focussing on the wrong things. The more you do yourself with the simple tools the more you will learn and you can certainly transfer that knowledge to any language later on.
He did say he wanted to learn, and not immediately apply for a job in industry.
+1
FYI, the thread is about someone wanting to learn how to write code. What does the operating system have to do with that? Didn't I call you a nube before? Thanks for proving it :lol It is not a religion. It is software. Both windows and Linux have their uses. Calling one an absolute better than the other is foolish.
Agreed.
I'm intrigued about a C compiler built into Linux. I have Ubuntu on an extra machine and after it gets finished downloading and installing the latest version, I'm going to give it a shot and see what it has in there. egads.. that's gonna be about 3 hours.. lol.
My aversion to this type of developing on a windows OS is you'd have to do it in a command box. Just not quite like the good old days when that's all you had ( pre windows 3.0 ).
My comment about the API was because I had written an app that interfaced with it.. many moons ago.. and I seem to recall it was frustrating. Probably due to the lack of documentation at the time..
With any environment you're not just learning to code, you're learning the interface with the machine you're working on to make that code do something useful that you can see.
I'm thinking the linux/C approach may be easier than others.
I could very well be wrong.
Should know after the updates are done.
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Drone,
My argument is that nobody programs in a vacuum other than the student who follows some of the advice on this thread.
In other words, a program that simply runs in a command box and prints to the box is 100% useless, its uninspiring and downright bland and boring.
The vast majority of programs require a user to input meaningful data that in turn is validated, and then this input is run through a function or method. That input comes in the form of Windows style interface (textbox, listbox choice, checkbox, optionset etc)...or a reasonable facsimile thereof (Aces High)
Nobody runs todays modern programs from a Command Line
Further, there isn't anything that can be accomplished in a command line program that cannot be accomplished via a Windows style GUI...and further still there is nothing that can be learned in Console app that cannot also be learned starting from Winform app
A new programmer who learns to run a "Hello World" command line program is legions behind the same neophyte that learns to do it via a Winform, a Command button and a label
Todays modern IDE creates with the push of button the modern Winform app, and exposes the student to the structure of it.
I do not believe, nor will anyone convince me, that learning code outside of an integrated Winform IDE is a better choice...
Intellisense is the MS IDE method of interpreting what your trying to code...and that alone teaches you more in a shorter period of time than any tutorial could; it shows you, or indicates how objects are related (properties, methods & events)
If the OP decides to start with Winforms in C# (free from MS)...he will be well served
Oneway
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I beg to differ, oneway.. and the reason is such..
Programming is constructing a series of steps using commands, statements, functions, procedures, subprograms, and the like to achieve some result.
Once you get a fundamental understanding of how all that works, then you can apply that to any language.
You should use the simplest interface to learn variable definition, if/then/else, while-do, function definition, using a returned value from a function, using procedures.
Get some of those under your belt, then move on to reading files and line commands.
Defining a box and dragging a button to it is not programming. That is using a tool to construct an interface. God help you when it breaks and your debugger gives you no real help on how to fix it.
No.. I firmly believe that you should learn how to write code .. It doesn't have to be months or a year.. just start there.
Get something written in C, then you can understand C++ and Java. Learn the importance of libraries, header files, linked modules, and executables. I would consider it an investment.
But, then, I'm not a formal educator. I could be completely off-base. It worked for me.
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I would rather dive in to the pool from the deep end...
To each his own I suppose...I would rather grab a snake by his head than his tail...
Salute
Right click view image...
(http://www.cadframers.com/ah/scenario_manager.png)
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I would rather dive in to the pool from the deep end...
if you're using microsoft vb or visual c you're nowhere close to the deep end. if i want a nice fancy excel spreadsheet or some fancy front end for the worst database system on the planet, vb is great.
it's a damn good thing nobody followed such programming advice in the past, the apollo program would have never gotten off the ground, no one would have had the pleasure of seeing an atari or commodore, no atm's, no internet, apple os would never have seen the light of day...and microsoft wouldn't exist. first computer generated graphics, on unix. first 32 bit operating system, unix. first 64 bit operating system, unix. most widely used enterprise operating system, unix/linux.
i agree, why have the flexibility and knowledge that comes from working on the command line when you can work with a fancy front end within the confines of what microsoft will allow in their operating system? can you map a specific memory address, call a specific dma channel or irq, perhaps create a cluster file system, maybe even load balance a cluster file system with microsoft vb or c#? no would be the correct answer.
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The easy part of programming is user input, the hard part is manipulating it and forming/implementing complex algorithms.
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I'm a noob...
Are the major of the web servers running a apache/Linux?
Sorry, you are in the wrong thread. The OP was talking about programming :rofl
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I agree with most of the thoughts here on Linux. Excellent free way to learn. Books are essential though. You'll be paying for those.
One more thing too. If your intreted in web type of stuff, there is a very cheap web hoster called limedomains.com
for 8 bucks a year you can have a web site to dabble with. If you find yourself drawn to that kind of thing.
Good luck though,. And if you feel fustrated its ok. When you have your eureka moment, you'll never forget it. Just right it down, so incase you do forget it, you can recreate it. Then try to remember where u put the notebook. :D
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Sorry, you are in the wrong thread. The OP was talking about programming :rofl
Please, see my first post in this thread.
The second post was about "Linux :rofl" comment.
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Please, see my first post in this thread.
The second post was about "Linux :rofl" comment.
Well, are you posting from Linux? Running AH on Linux? As I said, it has its uses (mainly in real time systems) but to say you can do more on a linux box than you can do an a windows is just funny. In either case, the thread is about writing code and that should be irrelevant to operating systems. What is relevant, is taking everything else out of the equation to make it easier for someone new to focus on the programming task only. So doing it in windows, a system that he is already familiar with, using tools with a familiar look and feel has to be the easiest way, no?
Telling a new guy to go install Linux, learn vi and use a command line compiler (should he rebuild the kernel a few times while at it?) is just ridiculous. Where is he going to install it? Have you ever made the mistake to try and install Linux on a laptop that came with windows on? :lol In my experience (and it is big) when questions like the OPs are answered with "install linux cause it is the best" the people are either clueless or just bragging about their mad command line Linux skillz. A lot of times it is both.
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Computer coding in today's construct attempts to emulate life in reflection...it attempts to reflect reality in an Object Oriented construct...and is hemmed in and by the standards adopted by the coders and architects who have their finger in the direction of that particular language.
It is impossible to address or answer your question unless or until you define your objectives and the language you wish to accomplish them in.
Oneway
This is a bulletin board ya know. Not an application to micrapsoft. You can dumb it down for us southern folk.
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This is a bulletin board ya know. Not an application to micrapsoft. You can dumb it down for us southern folk.
I hope this helps bud. Here is what he said:
Computer codin' in today's cornstruck attempps t'emulate life in refleckshun...it attempps t'refleck reality in an Objeck Oriented cornstruck...an' is hemmed in an' by th' stan'ards adopped by th' coders an' architecks who haf their finger in th' direckshun of thet particular language.
It is impostible t'address o' answer yer quesshun unless o' until yo' define yer objeckives an' th' language yo' wish t'accomplish them in, as enny fool kin plainly see.
Onooay
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Telling a new guy to go install Linux, learn vi and use a command line compiler (should he rebuild the kernel a few times while at it?) is just ridiculous. Where is he going to install it? Have you ever made the mistake to try and install Linux on a laptop that came with windows on? :lol In my experience (and it is big) when questions like the OPs are answered with "install linux cause it is the best" the people are either clueless or just bragging about their mad command line Linux skillz. A lot of times it is both.
someone knows less about linux than they do windows. obviously hasn't heard the latest news about linux, there are actually 2 very good gui interfaces, gnome and kde. no one uses vi or vim for anything more than scripting, especially beginners. when you get to the point where you are comfortable with command line, the switch over is very easy.
point and click programming isn't programming, no matter how you try to twist it.
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. no one uses vi or vim for anything more than scripting
CC, I ll tell that to our guys here. They will appreciate the information.
point and click programming isn't programming, no matter how you try to twist it.
Another example of my programming is better than yours attitude and bragging. I ll will inform our GUI guys that just because their screens have buttons, they are not real programmers.
You sir just saved me a tone of money. It would appear that non of my guys is a real developer and therefore, I should not be paying anyone as a programmer. :aok
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Well, are you posting from Linux? Running AH on Linux? As I said, it has its uses (mainly in real time systems) but to say you can do more on a linux box than you can do an a windows is just funny. In either case, the thread is about writing code and that should be irrelevant to operating systems. What is relevant, is taking everything else out of the equation to make it easier for someone new to focus on the programming task only. So doing it in windows, a system that he is already familiar with, using tools with a familiar look and feel has to be the easiest way, no?
Telling a new guy to go install Linux, learn vi and use a command line compiler (should he rebuild the kernel a few times while at it?) is just ridiculous. Where is he going to install it? Have you ever made the mistake to try and install Linux on a laptop that came with windows on? :lol In my experience (and it is big) when questions like the OPs are answered with "install linux cause it is the best" the people are either clueless or just bragging about their mad command line Linux skillz. A lot of times it is both.
I remember the time when programing was all about problem solving.
If you could accomplish something with shell script you did just that. If you needed C, so it was.
If your solution was for specific platform, you worked on the very same.
Only sales people of large IT companies were arguing which hardware/OS/system was better.
But anyway, the higher level language you start with, the better. Which in many cases is simply pseudo code.
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I hope this helps bud. Here is what he said:
Computer codin' in today's cornstruck attempps t'emulate life in refleckshun...it attempps t'refleck reality in an Objeck Oriented cornstruck...an' is hemmed in an' by th' stan'ards adopped by th' coders an' architecks who haf their finger in th' direckshun of thet particular language.
It is impostible t'address o' answer yer quesshun unless o' until yo' define yer objeckives an' th' language yo' wish t'accomplish them in, as enny fool kin plainly see.
Onooay
OMG I snickered.
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CC, I ll tell that to our guys here. They will appreciate the information.
Another example of my programming is better than yours attitude and bragging. I ll will inform our GUI guys that just because their screens have buttons, they are not real programmers.
You sir just saved me a tone of money. It would appear that non of my guys is a real developer and therefore, I should not be paying anyone as a programmer. :aok
actually you should give them a raise, especially if they have you convinced vi and vim are programming languages, they are obviously more intelligent than you are and you should do everything you can to keep them.
vim5 can be used in conjunction with a compiler to build code for a program but it is not a programming language like cobol, fortran, c, basic, java, python or even perl...just in case the difference was unclear.
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I remember the time when programing was all about problem solving.
If you could accomplish something with shell script you did just that. If you needed C, so it was.
If your solution was for specific platform, you worked on the very same.
Only sales people of large IT companies were arguing which hardware/OS/system was better.
But anyway, the higher level language you start with, the better. Which in many cases is simply pseudo code.
The solution to the unfolding argument may be np-hard.... I'm gonna grab some popcorn, want some?
learn x86 ASM first, then you will know how it is really working :devil
In reality, I first learned using gw-basic and from there I figured out how to write in x86 ASM and make functions that could be called from gw-basic. Then, once I had obtained a copy of BCC (remember that borland compiler?) I learned C & subsequently C++. Back-assward I know, but it worked and was a reaction to the problems I wanted to solve and the tools I had available at the time.
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learn x86 ASM first, then you will know how it is really working :devil
Assy was always good starter, especially for dyslexic :D
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real men program in machine language.
semp
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Assy was always good starter, especially for dyslexic :D
Hmmm... by any chance are you referring to the operand construct?
Did my first assy on 6502... then had to write some inserted assy code in Turbo Pascal with x86... the operators were backward!
Without getting into the classic apple vs. ms purse fight, I always wondered how much farther we'd be along if the 68000 had won the chip war over the 80x86.
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Well, are you posting from Linux? Running AH on Linux? As I said, it has its uses (mainly in real time systems) but to say you can do more on a linux box than you can do an a windows is just funny. In either case, the thread is about writing code and that should be irrelevant to operating systems. What is relevant, is taking everything else out of the equation to make it easier for someone new to focus on the programming task only. So doing it in windows, a system that he is already familiar with, using tools with a familiar look and feel has to be the easiest way, no?
Telling a new guy to go install Linux, learn vi and use a command line compiler (should he rebuild the kernel a few times while at it?) is just ridiculous. Where is he going to install it? Have you ever made the mistake to try and install Linux on a laptop that came with windows on? :lol In my experience (and it is big) when questions like the OPs are answered with "install linux cause it is the best" the people are either clueless or just bragging about their mad command line Linux skillz. A lot of times it is both.
My second post was directed to oneway: Is the laughable Linux is widely used in server business? Get over it.
I installed Ubunto to my IBM T41 laptop without problem.
It was very straight forward and didn't take long so, maybe you just did something plain wrong.
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actually you should give them a raise, especially if they have you convinced vi and vim are programming languages, they are obviously more intelligent than you are and you should do everything you can to keep them.
vim5 can be used in conjunction with a compiler to build code for a program but it is not a programming language like cobol, fortran, c, basic, java, python or even perl...just in case the difference was unclear.
Do I bring the idiot in you out or what? :lol WOW, thanks for the info bud. Priceless :old:
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I hope this helps bud. Here is what he said:
Computer codin' in today's cornstruck attempps t'emulate life in refleckshun...it attempps t'refleck reality in an Objeck Oriented cornstruck...an' is hemmed in an' by th' stan'ards adopped by th' coders an' architecks who haf their finger in th' direckshun of thet particular language.
It is impostible t'address o' answer yer quesshun unless o' until yo' define yer objeckives an' th' language yo' wish t'accomplish them in, as enny fool kin plainly see.
Onooay
Thank goodness someone around here makes sense.
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OMG I snickered.
HEY!! You laughed cause you speak like that. Dont hate. Us rednecks have our own language. Yontew!!!
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It was very straight forward and didn't take long so, maybe you just did something plain wrong.
Yep, maybe I did. In the end it was the non existent drivers for that hardware. So, what is better for a new guy. Dealing with all this or just diving in to programming without having to worry about OS/hardware issues, making mistakes, etc? This is not a thread about what people prefer or what OS is better. It is about how to get into programming the fastest and easiest way. At list that is how I see it.
I still don;t have an answer on how you can do a lot more on Linux/Unix than in windows. We have specific uses for it and it is the best at it (real time software). If we are not doing that, we use windows. Also, if anyone does take a shot at the question, keep in mind that you are giving advice to someone who is not even a programmer yet. So, what more could he possibly do on Linux?
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Yep, maybe I did. In the end it was the non existent drivers for that hardware. So, what is better for a new guy. Dealing with all this or just diving in to programming without having to worry about OS/hardware issues, making mistakes, etc? This is not a thread about what people prefer or what OS is better. It is about how to get into programming the fastest and easiest way. At list that is how I see it.
I still don;t have an answer on how you can do a lot more on Linux/Unix than in windows. We have specific uses for it and it is the best at it (real time software). If we are not doing that, we use windows. Also, if anyone does take a shot at the question, keep in mind that you are giving advice to someone who is not even a programmer yet. So, what more could he possibly do on Linux?
Installing Linux is way easier than it used to be. Ubuntu is especially good with recognizing hardware. About as easy as installing Windows, or re-installing Windows. Most users have experience with that :)
The recommendations were in regard to learning programming. Much easier on Linux in my experience than Windows. You can run shell scripts for Bash to learn the basics, then run a local web server to play with web programming using PHP or Perl. For higher level stuff there's Python.
It could be just my limited experience on Windows though. How would you recommend someone start out learning programming using Windows?
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It is not about being able to do a lot on Linux versus Windows. If you are starting out, Linux is easier, to a degree, because you learn to use the standard C library. It is simple and quick.
If you are learning on Windows, you also have to learn to use the Windows API, which is not so simple and quick. The Windows API tends to be a pseudo-standard as Microsoft will not hesitate to deprecate functions as they move forward.
The C library has not changed much since its inception. Code I wrote in the 80's still compiles and runs on any UNIX variant. Try that with Windows 3.0 code. Heck, find a compiler that will compile Windows 3.0 code.
If you want a good solid base to learn programming on, then a UNIX variant is a tough one to beat.
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PM sent.
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It is not about being able to do a lot on Linux versus Windows. If you are starting out, Linux is easier, to a degree, because you learn to use the standard C library. It is simple and quick.
If you are learning on Windows, you also have to learn to use the Windows API, which is not so simple and quick. The Windows API tends to be a pseudo-standard as Microsoft will not hesitate to deprecate functions as they move forward.
The C library has not changed much since its inception. Code I wrote in the 80's still compiles and runs on any UNIX variant. Try that with Windows 3.0 code. Heck, find a compiler that will compile Windows 3.0 code.
If you want a good solid base to learn programming on, then a UNIX variant is a tough one to beat.
I am confused Skuzzy. What exactly in windows is preventing you from from using standard C and why on earth would you have to learn the windows API in order to learn programming? The basics are data structures and design patterns. What does the OS have to do with this? What debugging tools would you suggest a guy that never coded before uses under Linux? Why mix OS with programming and why go through the extra effort of installing Linux rendering his PC useless in the process? Do you think he has the skills to create a dual boot machine? Again, why spend all the time and effort on other tasks instead of focusing on programming. It may be easy for someone with 20 years experience but for people that cant find the "any key" I think it is unrealistic to even attempt anything in Linux.
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If anyone cares to compare programing resumes, I'd be glad to. I started in 1974 on a pdp8 with paper tape and a teletype.
Start with visual studio on windows. There is NOTHING you can not do that you could do with Linux that you can not do 100 % the same on windows. Most people do not seem to understand that windows can run console apps. I believe you can purchase a copy fairly cheep as a student.
The integrated debugger compiler will greatly speed up your learning time.
But as to learning programing, that is far more then a few weeks or months teaching yourself. You can learn the basics , but beyond that the arena of knowledge crosses over into engineering where knowing the subject matter of what you are programing becomes a never ending learning process.
But as dedalos stated, find some good books on data and file structures. Data structures are really the key to learning coding.
2nd pick a problem or piece of code to write. Having an end task (nothing very huge) gives you a problem to work on , and hence forces the learning.
A great piece of code not only solves the problem efficiently, it also is easy for anyone else to understand at a glance.
HiTech
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Start with visual studio on windows. There is NOTHING you can not do that you could do with Linux that you can not do 100 % the same on windows. Most people do not seem to understand that windows can run console apps. I believe you can purchase a copy fairly cheep as a student.
you can get the express addition for free I believe..
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If anyone cares to compare programing resumes, I'd be glad to. I started in 1974 on a pdp8 with paper tape and a teletype.
Start with visual studio on windows. There is NOTHING you can not do that you could do with Linux that you can not do 100 % the same on windows. Most people do not seem to understand that windows can run console apps. I believe you can purchase a copy fairly cheep as a student.
The integrated debugger compiler will greatly speed up your learning time.
But as to learning programing, that is far more then a few weeks or months teaching yourself. You can learn the basics , but beyond that the arena of knowledge crosses over into engineering where knowing the subject matter of what you are programing becomes a never ending learning process.
But as dedalos stated, find some good books on data and file structures. Data structures are really the key to learning coding.
2nd pick a problem or piece of code to write. Having an end task (nothing very huge) gives you a problem to work on , and hence forces the learning.
A great piece of code not only solves the problem efficiently, it also is easy for anyone else to understand at a glance.
HiTech
:old:
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Without getting into the classic apple vs. ms purse fight, I always wondered how much farther we'd be along if the 68000 had won the chip war over the 80x86.
Although it has gotten a bit convoluted in recent years, ARM has a much nicer instruction set than x86 too.
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Although it has gotten a bit convoluted in recent years, ARM has a much nicer instruction set than x86 too.
Don't forget the Alpha with OS2 also
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Also, check out these guys - very helpful bunch:
http://www.ioccc.org
You'll be up to speed in no time.
- sudz
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Also, check out these guys - very helpful bunch:
http://www.ioccc.org
You'll be up to speed in no time.
- sudz
:rofl :rofl
love how some mix ascii art with already hard to read code.
http://www2.us.ioccc.org/2004/anonymous.c (http://www2.us.ioccc.org/2004/anonymous.c)