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General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: uptown on October 18, 2011, 09:06:48 AM

Title: Hanger Queens
Post by: uptown on October 18, 2011, 09:06:48 AM
The new Pee40s. How bout fixing those flaps. Landing comes down before the flaps do.  :rolleyes:

(http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk121/TheAmish/smiley-level1_don006.gif)
Title: Re: Hanger Queens
Post by: B4Buster on October 18, 2011, 09:11:27 AM
I agree, it's disappointing as I was really looking forward to flying them. They're undoubtedly more difficult to be effective with now, especially in rolling scissor fights. If the flaps are modeled accurately though, then that is what I want in game.
Title: Re: Hanger Queens
Post by: gyrene81 on October 18, 2011, 09:25:58 AM
The new Pee40s. How bout fixing those flaps. Landing comes down before the flaps do.  :rolleyes:

(http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk121/TheAmish/smiley-level1_don006.gif)
find a resource that says something different than the manuals and you could get your wish. there is no reference to maneuvering flaps...welcome to the world of the 109.
Title: Re: Hanger Queens
Post by: Tyrannis on October 18, 2011, 10:56:05 AM
speaking of the new p40s, which is the best dogfighter out of the 2? the N or the F?

Been trying them both out, Ive had more kills in the F and i like that it has no nose intake blocking the sights, but i love the N's ordance capabilities and cocpit.
Title: Re: Hanger Queens
Post by: SmokinLoon on October 18, 2011, 11:02:23 AM
speaking of the new p40s, which is the best dogfighter out of the 2? the N or the F?

Been trying them both out, Ive had more kills in the F and i like that it has no nose intake blocking the sights, but i love the N's ordance capabilities and cocpit.

My early (and brief) observations show the P40E to be the better dogfighter when the weights are similar.  The N is more capable (ordnance, low alt WEP speeds, etc), but the Merlin engine of the F model really shines, imo.  The higher you go the better the F gets over the N.

Be sure and check out the C model, other than the gun package it really is a force not to over look.  The E variant was nerfed a bit (and rightfully so, imo). 
Title: Re: Hanger Queens
Post by: perdue3 on October 18, 2011, 11:06:18 AM
Muahaha whine on Allied twits, whine on.  :devil
Title: Re: Hanger Queens
Post by: coombz on October 18, 2011, 11:18:47 AM
Muahaha whine on Allied twits, whine on.  :devil

lol the irony is quite staggering
Title: Re: Hanger Queens
Post by: LCADolby on October 18, 2011, 11:40:16 AM
lol the irony is quite staggering
Be a good chap and pass the biscuit tin, there's a good boy.
Title: Re: Hanger Queens
Post by: Tyrannis on October 18, 2011, 11:52:12 AM
Muahaha whine on Allied twits, whine on.  :devil
So hows that new ME410 handling for you luftweenies?

oh wait.... :devil
Title: Re: Hanger Queens
Post by: gyrene81 on October 18, 2011, 12:02:03 PM
So hows that new ME410 handling for you luftweenies?

oh wait.... :devil
as good as the gloster meteor...   :neener:

your friends are waiting on you...
(http://pinkiepie.bronibooru.mlponies.com/data/preview/b1c156bd6410e8f3b838201126f8537b.jpg)
Title: Re: Hanger Queens
Post by: Soulyss on October 18, 2011, 12:10:48 PM
The new Pee40s. How bout fixing those flaps. Landing comes down before the flaps do.  :rolleyes:

(http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk121/TheAmish/smiley-level1_don006.gif)

What are you worried about, 39th FS didn't fly P-40's. :D
Title: Re: Hanger Queens
Post by: Ack-Ack on October 18, 2011, 12:13:28 PM
The new Pee40s. How bout fixing those flaps. Landing comes down before the flaps do.  :rolleyes:

(http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk121/TheAmish/smiley-level1_don006.gif)

Nothing wrong with the flaps at all.  It's stated in the P-40 flight manual not to deploy flaps above speeds of 140mph IAS.

ack-ack
Title: Re: Hanger Queens
Post by: PuppetZ on October 18, 2011, 12:19:30 PM
Nothing wrong with the flaps at all.  It's stated in the P-40 flight manual not to deploy flaps above speeds of 140mph IAS.

ack-ack

Oh snap! Do I always have to follow that dang manual  ;)

 :lol
Title: Re: Hanger Queens
Post by: Ruah on October 18, 2011, 12:27:54 PM
wait, the 109 has flaps? oh yah, you mean those things that you use in some desperate move to get some lift (like setting you cannons out 650. . .cuz they go further right?) lol


we have 4 frames to find out who comes out on top!! :bolt:

Title: Re: Hanger Queens
Post by: SmokinLoon on October 18, 2011, 12:31:30 PM
Oh snap! Do I always have to follow that dang manual  ;)

 :lol

I was told once upon a time by a WWII naval aviator instructor that the first thing they did after reading the manual and memorizing some minor things was to throw them away.   :D  I will even quote (as close as I recall) the late fellow: "We did things in those planes we were never supposed to do and we did them on a daily basis, we had to." 
Title: Re: Hanger Queens
Post by: Tyrannis on October 18, 2011, 12:45:55 PM
as good as the gloster meteor...   :neener:

your friends are waiting on you...
(http://pinkiepie.bronibooru.mlponies.com/data/preview/b1c156bd6410e8f3b838201126f8537b.jpg)
Im an American Iron pilot.

If you wish to mock the meteor, go find a brit.  :P
Title: Re: Hanger Queens
Post by: Noir on October 18, 2011, 01:04:07 PM
Nothing wrong with the flaps at all.  It's stated in the P-40 flight manual not to deploy flaps above speeds of 140mph IAS.

ack-ack

that doesn't mean they couldn't deploy over that speed....this game simulates planes, or their manual?
Title: Re: Hanger Queens
Post by: Wiley on October 18, 2011, 01:11:01 PM
that doesn't mean they couldn't deploy over that speed....this game simulates planes, or their manual?

 :huh Pray tell... what documentation should they use then?

Wiley.
Title: Re: Hanger Queens
Post by: uptown on October 18, 2011, 01:23:23 PM
speaking of the new p40s, which is the best dogfighter out of the 2? the N or the F?

Been trying them both out, Ive had more kills in the F and i like that it has no nose intake blocking the sights, but i love the N's ordance capabilities and cocpit.
hummm..f or n    fffff or nnnn     ...... fluff'n p40!  :furious

 sorry,what was ur question?
Title: Re: Hanger Queens
Post by: gyrene81 on October 18, 2011, 01:30:07 PM
that doesn't mean they couldn't deploy over that speed....this game simulates planes, or their manual?
really? sure about that? perhaps you can convince hitech that "maximum safe speed" doesn't mean can't be done...maybe the one plane with fully manual flap controls will be able to do what pilots claimed they could do.
Title: Re: Hanger Queens
Post by: uptown on October 18, 2011, 01:34:26 PM
I was told once upon a time by a WWII naval aviator instructor that the first thing they did after reading the manual and memorizing some minor things was to throw them away.   :D  I will even quote (as close as I recall) the late fellow: "We did things in those planes we were never supposed to do and we did them on a daily basis, we had to." 
winner winner chicken dinner!!

Title: Re: Hanger Queens
Post by: Wiley on October 18, 2011, 01:41:44 PM
So... essentially you guys are talking about changing the modeling based on anecdotal evidence?

...Yeah, that would end well.

Wiley.
Title: Re: Hanger Queens
Post by: uptown on October 18, 2011, 01:43:25 PM
Nothing wrong with the flaps at all.  It's stated in the P-40 flight manual not to deploy flaps above speeds of 140mph IAS.

ack-ack
:rofl Akak you make me lol . the manual?  wish i had 2 manuals so i could hold them out of the cocpit and use them as flaps!
Title: Re: Hanger Queens
Post by: gyrene81 on October 18, 2011, 01:51:34 PM
:rofl Akak you make me lol . the manual?  wish i had 2 manuals so i could hold them out of the cocpit and use them as flaps!
it's not ack-ack, hitech uses what the manuals show. and it just so happens none of the p-40 manuals show any maneuvering flaps but they do show maximum safe speed for flap deployment of any degree is 140mph.
Title: Re: Hanger Queens
Post by: uptown on October 18, 2011, 01:51:43 PM
So... essentially you guys are talking about changing the modeling based on anecdotal evidence?

...Yeah, that would end well.

Wiley.
No not me. I don't care if the 40 is changed at all. I'll just fly the 39 instead and leave the 40 where I found it. IT THE HANGER.  :airplane:
Title: Re: Hanger Queens
Post by: uptown on October 18, 2011, 02:00:35 PM
it's not ack-ack, hitech uses what the manuals show. and it just so happens none of the p-40 manuals show any maneuvering flaps but they do show maximum safe speed for flap deployment of any degree is 140mph.
o you silly manual thumpers. Ok you win. Are you finished with your "manual"? I need another one.  :neener:
Title: Re: Hanger Queens
Post by: gyrene81 on October 18, 2011, 02:02:53 PM
o you silly manual thumpers. Ok you win. Are you finished with your "manual"? I need another one.  :neener:
yer barkin up the wrong tree homer...i'm not hitech.

oh and, you would be one of the first in line to call someone luftwhiner if they said something about the flaps on the 109, which considering the fact that they are fully manual, should be most capable of deploying at least 10 degrees at speeds higher than the manual dictates.
Title: Re: Hanger Queens
Post by: Baumer on October 18, 2011, 02:55:01 PM
The manual I have specifically states that full flaps can be deployed at or below 140 mph. In the appendix for long range ferry flights, it goes on to state that flaps should not be retracted until past 160 mph. So 140 mph may not be the maximum safe deployment speed.

(http://332nd.org/dogs/baumer/BBS%20Stuff/ahbbs2011/P40Fflapspeed.png)

I think there is some need to look further into this subject.
Title: Re: Hanger Queens
Post by: SmokinLoon on October 18, 2011, 02:59:06 PM
The manual I have specifically states that full flaps can be deployed at or below 140 mph. In the appendix for long range ferry flights, it goes on to state that flaps should not be retracted until past 160 mph. So 140 mph may not be the maximum safe deployment speed.

(http://332nd.org/dogs/baumer/BBS%20Stuff/ahbbs2011/P40Fflapspeed.png)

I think there is some need to look further into this subject.

Great piece of evidence.  Official documents are original sources and the best evidence to wager righteousness!!!   :)
Title: Re: Hanger Queens
Post by: uptown on October 18, 2011, 03:00:22 PM
nice find
Title: Re: Hanger Queens
Post by: caldera on October 18, 2011, 03:06:11 PM
Well if you can't drop flaps, it soon will be.  :uhoh

Really like the improvement of the P-40C over the B.  Actually doesn't fly like a fully loaded B-24 now.  Ty HTC.  :cheers:
Title: Re: Hanger Queens
Post by: Pyro on October 18, 2011, 03:11:25 PM
Thanks Baumer.
Title: Re: Hanger Queens
Post by: TwinBoom on October 18, 2011, 05:58:02 PM
Thanks Baumer.


YES!!!!! Thank you Baumer I owe you  :aok


What are you worried about, 39th FS didn't fly P-40's. :D

Unit: 39th FS, 31st FG, USAAC
Serial: 12/31P
Selfridge Field, Michigan, 1941.

Check again
(http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/8591/376c.jpg)
 :ahand
Title: Re: Hanger Queens
Post by: ink on October 18, 2011, 06:34:32 PM
I always thought the flaps in a p 40 came out at 300...so I have been searching, cant find crap, but I did find this very cool write up from a P 40 pilot.

very interesting stuff on zero's in there.


"...A number of Zero's shed their wings
at speeds slightly over 350 IAS mph.  Japanese would not even
attempt a dive that approached 350 IAS.  None of Japan's aircraft
could even stand up to P-40's 30 and 50 caliber guns.  It only
required a few incendiary bullet, even from our 30 cal. guns, to
set fire or explode their aircraft...."

zero's in AH go way faster then whats stated here, without losing much control or parts....

http://yarchive.net/mil/p40.html
Title: Re: Hanger Queens
Post by: Soulyss on October 18, 2011, 06:37:48 PM

YES!!!!! Thank you Baumer I owe you  :aok

Unit: 39th FS, 31st FG, USAAC
Serial: 12/31P
Selfridge Field, Michigan, 1941.

Check again
(http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/8591/376c.jpg)
 :ahand

Forgot about pre-war. :)
Title: Re: Hanger Queens
Post by: Karnak on October 18, 2011, 08:50:55 PM
I always thought the flaps in a p 40 came out at 300...so I have been searching, cant find crap, but I did find this very cool write up from a P 40 pilot.

very interesting stuff on zero's in there.


"...A number of Zero's shed their wings
at speeds slightly over 350 IAS mph.  Japanese would not even
attempt a dive that approached 350 IAS.  None of Japan's aircraft
could even stand up to P-40's 30 and 50 caliber guns.  It only
required a few incendiary bullet, even from our 30 cal. guns, to
set fire or explode their aircraft...."

zero's in AH go way faster then whats stated here, without losing much control or parts....

http://yarchive.net/mil/p40.html
There is a quote out there from an A6M pilot claiming that speed was not an issue in diving the A6M as well.

It may also be that the "Zeroes" mentioned by the P-40 pilot were actually something else.  We IDed a lot of Japanese aircraft as Zeroes when they were not.
Title: Re: Hanger Queens
Post by: Ack-Ack on October 19, 2011, 02:19:25 AM
that doesn't mean they couldn't deploy over that speed....this game simulates planes, or their manual?

Name one plane in Aces High that allows you to deploy the flaps over the speed given in the flight manual.  Not talking about real life, but in the game.  Then you'll have your answer on what data is used to govern the deployment speeds for flaps.

ack-ack
Title: Re: Hanger Queens
Post by: Ack-Ack on October 19, 2011, 02:27:57 AM
The manual I have specifically states that full flaps can be deployed at or below 140 mph. In the appendix for long range ferry flights, it goes on to state that flaps should not be retracted until past 160 mph. So 140 mph may not be the maximum safe deployment speed.

(http://332nd.org/dogs/baumer/BBS%20Stuff/ahbbs2011/P40Fflapspeed.png)

I think there is some need to look further into this subject.

This is from a P-40 flight manual published in 1943.  I also have the flight manual for the M and N that also states not to deploy flaps above 140mph.
(http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm94/Ack-Ack/P40manualpage.jpg)

Here are the links to both P-40 manuals I have.
P-40 manual #1 (http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?5ze7ytm86ckd7w3)
P-40 manual #2 (http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?dplzeva76icl68r)

ack-ack
Title: Re: Hanger Queens
Post by: MK-84 on October 19, 2011, 02:36:28 AM
     I have  a question...and this question is NOT in any why a veiled attempt at pretending to try to change anything.

Now that that's done with...

     What could happen if a P40 pilot tried to deploy flaps at a higher speed?  Could he?  Structural failure?  Uncontrollable flight characteristics?  This kinda refers to all aircraft really... but...

I'm dumb, and curious :uhoh
Title: Re: Hanger Queens
Post by: Yarbles on October 19, 2011, 02:48:52 AM
Im an American Iron,


 :lol
Title: Re: Hanger Queens
Post by: guncrasher on October 19, 2011, 03:08:29 AM
grandpa flew in in the pacific against the Japanese.  he said the p40's sucked no matter what they did against the Japanese airplanes.  not until the f6f came in that they got the upper hand.

semp
Title: Re: Hanger Queens
Post by: Ack-Ack on October 19, 2011, 03:39:29 AM
grandpa flew in in the pacific against the Japanese.  he said the p40's sucked no matter what they did against the Japanese airplanes.  not until the f6f came in that they got the upper hand.

semp

Years must have clouded his memory.


ack-ack
Title: Re: Hanger Queens
Post by: AHTbolt on October 19, 2011, 07:29:41 AM
I asked my brother about this question hes an exair force pilot, he said that it has  more to do with the flap gear having the power to deploy the flaps against the wind pressure. Air speed has no effect on raising the flaps so you cant compair the two.
Title: Re: Hanger Queens
Post by: uptown on October 19, 2011, 07:37:42 AM
I did a little research myself and all I could find is what Akak has already posted up there above. This is not looking good for the home team.  :cry

Come to think of it, I was watching the Military Channel last weekend and they mentioned the P40s in Africa having great success using the boom and zoom tactics against Stukas.
Title: Re: Hanger Queens
Post by: Baumer on October 19, 2011, 10:30:49 AM
Ack-Ack, that is interesting because I do not have that in my P-40F & P40L manual.

The manual I have is;

"Pilot's Flight Operating Instructions for Army Model P-40F and P-40L"
T.O. 01-25CH-1
March 10, 1943
Revised June 20, 1943
Title: Re: Hanger Queens
Post by: IrishOne on October 19, 2011, 10:57:56 AM
The new Pee40s. How bout fixing those flaps. Landing comes down before the flaps do.
i borrowed this pic from another thread, but the panel says it all.  note the flap speed in the top row  :aok
(http://i1014.photobucket.com/albums/af263/irishone920/aceshigh_2011_10_16_12_14_12_225.jpg)
Title: Re: Hanger Queens
Post by: Pyro on October 19, 2011, 11:08:01 AM
The data posted is not mutually exclusive.  Some planes will have a different max speed for deploying the flaps than the max speed for having the flaps down.  In AH we only have one speed per flap setting, so we have to bridge those differences as best we can.
Title: Re: Hanger Queens
Post by: Krusty on October 19, 2011, 11:36:43 AM
Pyro, would you consider in the future allow flaps down at 1 speed, and auto retracting at a higher speed? Have 2 variables instead of 1?

Not that it makes much of a practical difference, but it would be a cool detail for cases like this where it's known. (Other planes might have both variables set to the same value, naturally)
Title: Re: Hanger Queens
Post by: Ack-Ack on October 19, 2011, 01:18:28 PM
Ack-Ack, that is interesting because I do not have that in my P-40F & P40L manual.

The manual I have is;

"Pilot's Flight Operating Instructions for Army Model P-40F and P-40L"
T.O. 01-25CH-1
March 10, 1943
Revised June 20, 1943


The first manual I believe was for the C model and was revised in 4/'43 and the 2nd manual was for the M/N model.

ack-ack