Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Pyro on October 24, 2011, 11:01:28 AM
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Round 3 voting is now going on in the arenas until Wednesday morning. The Beaufighter was eliminated in Round 2 by a margin of 1.2%. If there is no majority after Round 3, voting will continue to a final round between the top 2 planes. Results of all poll rounds will be revealed at the end of the final poll.
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I'm a little surprised the beaufighter was eliminated. There was some talk on 200 regarding that. Maybe too close of cousin of the mossy? So be it.
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It's sad to see any of them go down, but I just think of it as "not right now" as opposed to "not ever".
Someday, the J2M will make it in!
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a vote for yak is a vote for cookies
and cookies are good.
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Pyro, can you set it up for those of us not able to log into the game to vote? I am on the road until Friday around midnight. In theory I could miss the next two rounds of voting.
Any chance of finding a way I can participate?
Boo/mthrockmor
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Pyro, can you set it up for those of us not able to log into the game to vote? I am on the road until Friday around midnight. In theory I could miss the next two rounds of voting.
Any chance of finding a way I can participate?
Boo/mthrockmor
If you have a laptop, go ahead and install the game. Log in and vote. Laptop should run Aces High well enough for that.
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Voting who cares the rest of the way.
Historical birds dropping... non-history oriented folks want big guns and speed.
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non-history oriented folks want big guns and speed.
I'm not sure that's the case. I think we've slipped even lower and most are just voting for Meteor cause it has a cool name. I'd be pleasantly surprised if they knew it had speed and guns. :(
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Voting who cares the rest of the way.
Historical birds dropping... non-history oriented folks want big guns and speed.
^what he said.
The B5N need updating more then we need another late war uber plane.
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Fish, you do realize the Me410, if you count the Me210Ca that it was based upon, was in service in 1942?
And that the Yak3 is from early on in the Soviet timeline, 1943, I believe?
How are they late war monsters?
Label the meteor if you must, but don't use it as a blanket because it doesn't apply to any but the meteor in this case.
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The 410's late war because no one wants the 410 for its early forms redundant with the 110. It's a "monster" because of the BK5 and MK 103. Those are superlative by any current AH measure. It's ridiculously monstrous because there's no flight performance to go with those guns. IOW it'll be a hangar queen for all but a few AH players after they try it out for its novelty after release day.
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Seeing as production stopped mid '44 I don't think you can consider it truly "late war" ... Unless that's reverse psychology to get other to vote for it?
(In which case... "yeah, I agree!")
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The 410's late war because no one wants the 410 for its early forms redundant with the 110. It's a "monster" because of the BK5 and MK 103. Those are superlative by any current AH measure. It's ridiculously monstrous because there's no flight performance to go with those guns. IOW it'll be a hangar queen for all but a few AH players after they try it out for its novelty after release day.
I'd rather have the 410 then the Meteor as well. Ten dedicated 410 drivers would be a heckuva lot more fun then more jets :)
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And that the Yak3 is from early on in the Soviet timeline, 1943, I believe?.
The Yak3 was out March 1944 and in front line strength in the summer of 1944. Meteor came around in July 1944. The only thing left on the poll is the Me410 but some are voting for it for the big guns it may carry.
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I'd rather have the 410 then the Meteor as well. Ten dedicated 410 drivers would be a heckuva lot more fun then more jets :)
ditto
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Seeing as production stopped mid '44 I don't think you can consider it truly "late war" ... Unless that's reverse psychology to get other to vote for it?
(In which case... "yeah, I agree!")
You only agree if my above post was some mind game BS... It wasn't.
Mid 44 is late war by AH standards. The 410 will get slaughtered by any of the 38s and the F-Mossie. Tail guns and BK5/MK103 are nothing but curious gizmos if most of the player base couldn't put em to work because of how much of a pig the plane is for A2A. On top of being almost redundant with the 110. Definitely redundant if we're only considering what most players care most about: A2A "melee".
Hence it being a waste of HTC's resources in many/most people's POV.
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The Yak3 was out March 1944 and in front line strength in the summer of 1944. Meteor came around in July 1944. The only thing left on the poll is the Me410 but some are voting for it for the big guns it may carry.
Meteor came around in July 1944, but when did they go across the channel? Wasn't it just a month (or a few?) before the war was over?
But if you're right on the yak I must have been thinking of the earlier model or something else. My mistake.
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I did vote for the Me410, not because it will fill some hole in the planeset, but because the other two choices are simply 'faster or higher' (or both).
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You only agree if my above post was some mind game BS... It wasn't.
Mid 44 is late war by AH standards. The 410 will get slaughtered by any of the 38s and the F-Mossie. Tail guns and BK5/MK103 are nothing but curious gizmos if most of the player base couldn't put em to work because of how much of a pig the plane is for A2A. On top of being almost redundant with the 110. Definitely redundant if we're only considering what most players care most about: A2A "melee".
Hence it being a waste of HTC's resources in many/most people's POV.
LOL, that's rich. I shall also declare the spit9 redundant because we have a spit5. I will also declare a mossie useless because it's a bit of a pig and its quad hissos are "only a curious gizmo," and I will declare the Ta152 is redundant because we have a Fw190D9. The D9 is redundant because we have the A8. The A8 redundant because we have the A5. By transitive power, the Ta152 is redundant because we have the 190A5.
So, like I said, that's a rich comment! :D
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Voted for the Me410 because I think it might be a fun aircraft to fight against in the Mossie.
Though the masochistic part of me is really curious about how the Meteor would handle.
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LOL, that's rich. I shall also declare the spit9 redundant because we have a spit5. I will also declare a mossie useless because it's a bit of a pig and its quad hissos are "only a curious gizmo," and I will declare the Ta152 is redundant because we have a Fw190D9. The D9 is redundant because we have the A8. The A8 redundant because we have the A5. By transitive power, the Ta152 is redundant because we have the 190A5.
So, like I said, that's a rich comment! :D
Yes if the spit was as relatively less significant as the 410 is in the context here, IE which plane to add next here and now in this game Aces High.
The Mossie's no pig. The quad 20s aren't just curious gizmos EXACTLY because the airframe allows em to be put to excellent use.
The 152 is not arguably redundant to the 190s and all of Luftwaffe planeset because nothing else does high altitude nor its mix of hi-alt/long range + tnb + heavy firepower. The 152's a completely different animal from the rest of the 190 line up.
By transitive power,
I didn't write that strawman.
Voted for the Me410 because I think it might be a fun aircraft to fight against in the Mossie.
Though the masochistic part of me is really curious about how the Meteor would handle.
Mossie will tear it up. But that's ok if it has those tail guns, right?
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if the Yak-3 makes it into the game, im definately coming back for sure.
if the Yak-3 doesnt make it, then i wait for the StuG III.
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It's not a strawman... It's meant to bring to light how silly your comment was. Your post was most amusing, thank you.
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It's a straw man because it's got nothing to do with what I said.
The mossie is no pig
The 152's not just another 190
The spitfire's nothing nearly as useless and as much of a mere curiosity as the 410 is as far as typical MA furball gameplay and historically, in the context of AH's plane set and "next plane" priorities right now.
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The mossie is no pig
The 152's not just another 190
The spitfire's nothing nearly as useless
And the 410 isn't a redundant 110G....
So you see how it ties that back into my response?
Look, don't overthink it. If you're going to vote uber MA-only planes, go for it. I choose not to vote for the Meteor, as that is the only logical choice if you go down that path.
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The 410 is redundant to the 110 because it adds nothing in terms of A2A dogfighting, adds little in terms of ground destruction, and will be equivalent to the A8 and its proven popularity track record if it's loaded up with those precious big guns.
Your strawman is ignorable because it's exaggerated beyond any resemblance with what it's supposed to address.
Look, don't overthink it. If you're going to vote uber MA-only planes, go for it. I choose not to vote for the Meteor, as that is the only logical choice if you go down that path.
All wrong
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It wasn't a strawman. It was a logical implication of what my response was without typing the actual response.
You, however, seem to be into 410 bashing right now (your claims are all wrong IMO) so I'll just go check out the next thread. I'll pop back in and check on you, if you like? Mkaythanxbye.
:headscratch:
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The Yak3 was out March 1944 and in front line strength in the summer of 1944. Meteor came around in July 1944. The only thing left on the poll is the Me410 but some are voting for it for the big guns it may carry.
ahem, yak3 partial wooden/fabric construction with m-105pf-2 1200hp engine...1943.
yak3 partial wooden construction vk-107a 1500hp engine (prototype)...1944.
yak3 vk-107a 1500hp (modified) all metal construction...spring 1945 initial 75 planes constructed at zavod n.31 in tbilisi.
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I voted for the Meteor. I reckon it will be perked less than a 262. I also reckon that it will get caught a lot by prop planes, moreso than the 262. All that said, it will be nice to have some balance when it comes to jets. All of our jets are German.
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The allies thought the same thing in WW2....
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I voted for the Meteor. I reckon it will be perked less than a 262. I also reckon that it will get caught a lot by prop planes, moreso than the 262. All that said, it will be nice to have some balance when it comes to jets. our only jet is German.
fixed that for you.
the 262 is a jet, the 163 is a manned almost suicide missle. :neener:
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You don't fly the game too much do ya skorpion?
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I wonder about online polling also. The pop up screen listed choices of planes that I had not considered and hadn't done any homework on. So, I ask over 200 about the ammo capacity of the yak. This is a major consideration for me because of the possibility of being a hangar queen as well. Either everyone else on 200 hadn't a clue either or 200 is only tuned to hear political gossip and chess thumps. Giving there was no clear option to procede without casting an immediate response ... I had to go with "I don't care" ... which doesn't characterize my feeling on the matter, only means I didn't have an informed opinion at the moment.
Disclaimer: This is not a dig against polling policies, or a whine because my preferred ride was eliminated. This is merely my ponderance of how we base our decisions on matters that we are not informed on. Could it be? We would prefer the way "Meteor Mission" sounds? Or does "Yak3 Attack" roll off the tongue smoother? Certainly, in my mind there has always been some confusion in why someone would refer to a Bf109 as a Me109. Does this also carry over to the 410?
Oh well, off to my bing searches :bolt:
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You don't fly the game too much do ya skorpion?
:bhead you didnt get the joke did you?
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I wonder about online polling also. The pop up screen listed choices of planes that I had not considered and hadn't done any homework on. So, I ask over 200 about the ammo capacity of the yak. This is a major consideration for me because of the possibility of being a hangar queen as well. Either everyone else on 200 hadn't a clue either or 200 is only tuned to hear political gossip and chess thumps. Giving there was no option clear option to procede without casting an immediate response ... I had to go with "I don't care" ... which doesn't characterize my feeling on the matter, only means I didn't have an informed opinion at the moment.
Disclaimer: This is not a dig against polling policies, or a whine because my preferred ride was eliminated. This is merely my ponderance of how we base our decisions on matters that we are not informed on. Could it be? We would prefer the way "Meteor Mission" sounds? Or does "Yak3 Attack" roll off the tongue smoother? Certainly, in my mind there has always been some confusion in why someone would refer to a Bf109 as a Me109. Does this also carry over to the 410?
Oh well, off to my bing searches :bolt:
Same guns and ammo load as the Yak-9U as far as I know.
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I wonder about online polling also. The pop up screen listed choices of planes that I had not considered and hadn't done any homework on. So, I ask over 200 about the ammo capacity of the yak. This is a major consideration for me because of the possibility of being a hangar queen as well. Either everyone else on 200 hadn't a clue either or 200 is only tuned to hear political gossip and chess thumps. Giving there was no option clear option to procede without casting an immediate response ... I had to go with "I don't care" ... which doesn't characterize my feeling on the matter, only means I didn't have an informed opinion at the moment.
Disclaimer: This is not a dig against polling policies, or a whine because my preferred ride was eliminated. This is merely my ponderance of how we base our decisions on matters that we are not informed on. Could it be? We would prefer the way "Meteor Mission" sounds? Or does "Yak3 Attack" roll off the tongue smoother? Certainly, in my mind there has always been some confusion in why someone would refer to a Bf109 as a Me109. Does this also carry over to the 410?
Oh well, off to my bing searches :bolt:
yak3 1943 version - 1x20mm + 2x12.7mm
yak3 1945 version - 2x b-20s 20mm wings + 1-b-20m 20mm hub cannon
from what i've been able to find...
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a vote for yak is a vote for cookies
and cookies are good.
:aok
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ye8mB6VsUHw
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:bhead you didnt get the joke did you?
:bhead Ar-234, man....
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The Beaufighter was eliminated in Round 2 by a margin of 1.2%.
Arg. 1.2% Missed continuing on by ---->||<---- this much. :(
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yak3 1945 version - 2x b-20s 20mm wings + 1-b-20m 20mm hub cannon
from what i've been able to find...
That is, I am pretty certain, post war along with the VK-107 engine. The WWII Yak-3 had the VK-105 engine (same as in the Yak-9T) and the one 20mm with 120 rounds and two 12.7mm guns that the Yak-9U has.
The Yak-9U has the more powerful VK-107 engine.
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:bhead Ar-234, man....
:o
i almost forgot that even existed. i havent heard anything about it in a loooooooooooooooooong time...
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outta all the a/c the one I could care less about makes it through. really don't see a need for the meteor.
guess Ill put my vote to the 410 or yak.
Wish we coulda got the beau. :bhead
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It wasn't a strawman. It was a logical implication of what my response was without typing the actual response.
You, however, seem to be into 410 bashing right now (your claims are all wrong IMO) so I'll just go check out the next thread. I'll pop back in and check on you, if you like? Mkaythanxbye.
:headscratch:
I'm not bashing the 410. I'm calling it for what it is. You just can't argue facts. Always with the off topic dodges and lame condescension instead.
It's a strawman. Look up the definition.
If I wanted to bash I woulda instisted e.g. that the tail guns are nothing but a selfishly short sighted point to keep bringing up in arguing for the 410's addition. Nobody cares about freaking tail guns.
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Meteor never shot down any aircraft! It should not be added. It is not a counter to the 262 and would open the door to all those other planes that flew during the war but never saw air combat. The 262 is the only jet this game should have. For those who want to counter the 262; fly p51s or catch then landing/takeoff it's more historical.
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The 410 could kick all the other twins' asses. 38 mossie and all. Significant or not historically, it could be a real contender for luftwaffe twin instead of the frozen piece of dogtoejam on a stick that is the 110.
:headscratch:
Moot, I am not following here. You seem to be posting on both sides of the Me410 issue.
Meteor never shot down any aircraft! It should not be added. It is not a counter to the 262 and would open the door to all those other planes that flew during the war but never saw air combat. The 262 is the only jet this game should have. For those who want to counter the 262; fly p51s or catch then landing/takeoff it's more historical.
No it wouldn't. It saw combat. V1s and 46 or 48 aircraft destroyed on the ground. The things you are thinking of didn't see combat at all.
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:headscratch:
Moot, I am not following here. You seem to be posting on both sides of the Me410 issue.
Quite so... I'm not sure what's going on with him right now.
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in my mind there has always been some confusion in why someone would refer to a Bf109 as a Me109. Does this also carry over to the 410?
from being a kid I knew them as Me109s, and as kids running around with arms out going ratatatatatat it was always spitfires vs messerschmitts :)
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Meteor never shot down any aircraft! It should not be added. It is not a counter to the 262 and would open the door to all those other planes that flew during the war but never saw air combat. The 262 is the only jet this game should have. For those who want to counter the 262; fly p51s or catch then landing/takeoff it's more historical.
But since HTC included it for the poll, they must've already decided it merits inclusion. Actually I think it did shoot down aircraft - unmanned aircraft (several V-1s).
Actually, I'd like to see V-1 weapons added to the game. Bomber perks could be spent to launch one; the launch sites would be specially equipped Vbases. More reason to attack bases and capture territory.
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everyone knew them as ME109's untill technical geeks had to ensure the technically correct name must be used.
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everyone knew them as ME109's untill technical geeks had to ensure the technically correct name must be used.
I suspect some Germans may have known them as Bf109s ect, and history grognards the world over.
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Thanks for the info, and found some interesting discusions about wood (almost early composite like) construction v. metal construction. Both were used due to material constraints. Given these variants (doubt if we would have that choice in hangar between wood or metal) but damage models could vary. One problem noted with the wood construction was
from wiki: Unresolved wartime problems with the Yak-3 included plywood surfaces coming unstuck when the aircraft pulled out of a high-speed dive.[1] Other drawbacks of the aircraft were short range, and poor engine reliability. The pneumatic system for actuating landing gear, flaps and brakes, typical for all Yakovlev fighters of the time, was problematic. Though less reliable than hydraulic or electrical alternatives, the pneumatic system was preferred due to significant weight savings.
In 1944, the Normandie-Niemen Group re-equipped with the Yak-3, scoring with it the last 99 of their 273 air victories against the Luftwaffe.
Can you say French Skins?
Also: The first 197 Yak-3 were armed with a single 20 mm ShVAK cannon and one 12.7 mm UBS machine gun, with subsequent aircraft receiving a second UBS for a weight of fire of 2.72 kg (6.0 lb) per second using high-explosive ammunition. All armament was installed close to the axis of the aircraft (cannon firing through the rotor shaft and synchronised machine guns in the fuselage above the engine), adding to the accuracy and leaving wings unloaded.
All in all, I am not impressed with anything that limits my cannon firing to about 6 seconds worth (don't know the actual firing time just to make a point). It takes about 1/3 of my 8 50 cals to down the stick stirrers in the game as it is.
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We should continue the voting and just produce all three remaining aircraft. Winner is produced first and so on. :cheers:
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We should continue the voting and just produce all three remaining aircraft. Winner is produced first and so on. :cheers:
Absolutely Not That means the Beau wouldn't be included :cry
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I know. :rofl
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One thing I like about the yak 3 is the SA value of the cockpit combined with the lack of frame getting in the way of lead shots......
although this better forward visibility comes at the price of no frontal armoured glass..................
from another sim but you get the idea
(http://captainsim.com/products/y003/img/screenshots/vc/c_10f.jpg)
(http://captainsim.com/products/y003/img/screenshots/vc/c_3f.jpg)
Many here compare the Yak3 to the Yak 9U which was marginally faster or the Yak 9T which was slower heavier and until 44 had the M-105PF and not the M105PF2 which had 60 hp more. So as I am not sure which engined 9T we have I can give some numbers comparing the Mid 44 Yak3 with the Late 44 Yak9U. Both equipped with the same armament. I assume the 1 cannon + 1 mg version would have been slightly lighter. Indeed these earlier units also carried 20 litres less fuel.
Climb to 5000metres
Yak3 4.1 mins (to 4.5 mins)
Yak9U 5 mins (to 5.2 mins)
360 turn
Yak 3 19 secs
Yak9U 20 secs
Speed sea level
Yak 3 351 MPH
Yak9U 357 MPH
Speed Alt
Yak 3 397 @ 14500
Yak9U 417 @ 16500
Hp (max)
Yak 3 1240HP
Yak9U 1500HP
Weight empty
Yak 3 2128kg
Yak9U 2512kg
Weight gross
Yak3 2697kg
Yak9U 3204kg
Wing area
Yak3 14.85 m^2
Yak9U 17.15 m^2
There were initial wing skinning problems (associated only with Yak3's from the Sarotov plant) and a new type of adhesive had to be employed but the problem was solved by mid 44 and field mods inplace for those units that were so effected by late 44. Such problems were never experienced on the heavier / faster units produced at Tbilisi plant
The Yak3 was distinguished by its excellent climb rate and its very fast acceleration particularly in a very shallow dive. The above figures would also give us to believe it will hold E well in a multi turn combat scenario. (when compared to the 9U)
So beware even tho your rides top line speed is faster, when that Yak3 on your 6 makes a shallow dive below your tail he is probably catching you! However high G manouvres above 404mph were above standard structural limits for the air frame.
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Me-410 for the win :banana:!!
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Meteor never shot down any aircraft! It should not be added. It is not a counter to the 262 and would open the door to all those other planes that flew during the war but never saw air combat. The 262 is the only jet this game should have. For those who want to counter the 262; fly p51s or catch then landing/takeoff it's more historical.
QFT
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from being a kid I knew them as Me109s, and as kids running around with arms out going ratatatatatat it was always spitfires vs messerschmitts :)
I did some research and think I found the answer. Willy Messerschmitt worked for a company called Bayerische Flugzeugwerke (German for Bavarian Aircraft Company.) While working for Bf he developed his namesake fighter, model 109. Once accepted by the Reich Ministry it was given the designation Bf-109, which stuck as the formal designation. In 1938 Willy Messerschmitt purchased this company where it became the Messerschmitt company. From this point on all products were given the designation Me. While Bf and Me seem to be interchangeably, technically planes types developed and accepted by the Ministry pre-purchase were given Bf, after purchase Me.
This would argue that Bf-110, Me-410, Me-262, etc are correct.
Does anyone have info to add or correct?
Boo
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During WWII all Allied flyers referred to them as Me109s and Me110s. Bf109 and Bf110 is technically more correct since they were build by Bayerischefluegzugwerk (bad German spelling) but no one then called them that.
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Yak 3
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I just know the PBY is going to win!!!!!!!!!!
999000 <S>
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I just know the PBY is going to win!!!!!!!!!!
999000 <S>
If it were actually on the list, I have no doubt it would be winning. It is American.
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what is the time frame for midwar, would proposed Yak3 be LW only? How about the 410?
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If it were actually on the list, I have no doubt it would be winning. It is American.
LOL I don't think PBY would have a chance with any of the other a/c that started on the poll.
and not everyone from the states or anywhere else for that matter always wants something only from America. I myself would love to see 3 a/c from Fairey, those being the Swordfish, Fulmar, and the Firefly.
I would also like the D.520, any of the lighter Russian bombers, and much much more. That's not even mentioning all the a/c that need updates like my D3A.
Their are quite a few folks that will go with a more historical/more fun choice vs. superplane built in America everytime.(which by the way isn't true the super part I mean.)
edit: put 502 stead of 520 :D
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what is the time frame for midwar, would proposed Yak3 be LW only? How about the 410?
Yak-3 would be Later War only. Me410 would be Mid War. Meteor, of course, would be Late War.
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Can I see J2M Ki-43 Ki-44 Ki-100 soon? :pray
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Perhaps Moot's opinion changes as his understanding deepens and his thoughts resolve. You can hardly really berate someone for doing that. Especially when you contrast it to the methods of some clowns. :old:
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Can we have a putsch and demand a PBY? :old:
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Can we have a putsch and demand a PBY? :old:
You'll only end up in prision, writing a book in your spare time - 'Mein Yarbles' about how it was all Yarbles fault and how your going to take over HTC, rebuilding it with only a British plane set... While secretly locking up Yarbles and gassing him by eaating too many baked beans...
Boo Zackism and his Zackist ways! Yarbunism FTW! :rock
:banana:
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Perhaps Moot's opinion changes as his understanding deepens and his thoughts resolve. You can hardly really berate someone for doing that. Especially when you contrast it to the methods of some clowns. :old:
lol
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You'll only end up in prision, writing a book in your spare time - 'Mein Yarbles' about how it was all Yarbles fault and how your going to take over HTC, rebuilding it with only a British plane set... While secretly locking up Yarbles and gassing him by eaating too many baked beans...
Boo Zackism and his Zackist ways! Yarbunism FTW! :rock
:banana:
:rofl 'Mein Yarbles' :lol
:D :salute phatzo
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yak 3 is the dream, 410 is more realistic somehow (from what people are voting) and the meteor is the worst choise.
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Can I see J2M Ki-43 Ki-44 Ki-100 soon? :pray
All good choices IMHO.
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fixed that for you.
the 262 is a jet, the 163 is a manned almost suicide missle. :neener:
Ar-234 is a jet. You just are here to spam the boards, right?
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I was flipping though Janes "Battles with the Luftwaffe" and the Me-410 is a significant presence in the book. The trouble I have with the other selections is a similar counterpart already exists. In the arena of jets, this is not the case, imho it is about country representation. I am of the opinion that for each country which produced aircraft that fought in WWII, should have the apexes of their development lines represented. The no kidding best fighter circa SEP 39 and the best fighter circa Summer 45', by country. Let the peanut gallery sort through whether or not it was the "best" through voting.
Did a Meteor ever face a 262.... likely not. Did a P-47M ever cross swords with a Japanese fighter, likely not. Irrelevant arguments. HT has said this is a game using WWII planes, not a simulation of WWII combat (weak paraphrase).
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(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f147/Wmaker/410.jpg)
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:O :x :eek:
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Don't look now here come two high Ponies for the pick!
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Don't look now here come two high Ponies for the pick!
Something about those looks more like Yaks to me. Not that that changes the end result at all.
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Wmaker is using above picture as a blatant lobbying ploy :old:
It is a shocking state of affairs :old:
:banana:
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The 410 Campaign is very well funded. Nazi gold I heard :old:
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The 410 Campaign is very well funded. Nazi gold I heard :old:
Good thing we found that submarine off the coast of Brazil.
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No, that just had nuclear secrets in it :noid
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I don't want to hear about the hoards of NOE 410's on base takes either,from the very people who will vote for this aircraft,then complain on the BBS.
If it makes it of course. :bolt:
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Something about those looks more like Yaks to me. Not that that changes the end result at all.
The Me410 is well below their line of sight. They are right on a course to the 410's high 12. ;)
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You guys made me laugh :aok
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if the allied nickname for the 410 wasnt fugly tadpole it should have been.
:bolt:
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Good thing we found that submarine off the coast of Brazil.
Is that the one the Germans used to attack Pearl Harbour with? :old:
The Japanese Navy bombed Zack's chippy in the war too :cry
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Too bad that 410 won't be chasing one of these.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/TFmk10.jpg)
Not that something like this would ever find any kind of use in AH :) Remember that it would just end up as a hanger queen while folks took their torpedo and rocket laden Mossies...er...wait!
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/Beaufighter-Mark-X.jpg)
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Normally I'm a function over form kind of guy... but DAMN both those planes are ugly. Dingo ugly. :D
Wiley.
edit: Didn't realize that term was not allowed by the filter.
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Too bad that 410 won't be chasing one of these.
Oh sorry we didn't tell you? The Meteor's going to win. Zack and I already rigged it. The pole's just to give the illusion of democracy, obviously :banana:
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Good :salute
That German plane does look like a tadpole :)
Who got all that Nazi gold then?
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Too bad that 410 won't be chasing one of these.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/TFmk10.jpg)
Not that something like this would ever find any kind of use in AH :) Remember that it would just end up as a hanger queen while folks took their torpedo and rocket laden Mossies...er...wait!
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/Beaufighter-Mark-X.jpg)
Doesnt qualify for inclusion.......It has props :D
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(http://johnwallin.net/site/pix/me410/me410.jpg)
http://johnwallin.net/site/pix/me410/me410_1920.jpg (http://johnwallin.net/site/pix/me410/me410_1920.jpg)
http://ehangar.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=4086 (http://ehangar.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=4086)
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Too bad that 410 won't be chasing one of these.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/TFmk10.jpg)
Not that something like this would ever find any kind of use in AH :) Remember that it would just end up as a hanger queen while folks took their torpedo and rocket laden Mossies...er...wait!
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/Beaufighter-Mark-X.jpg)
Don't care if the hunted gets here before the hunter, so long as they both eventually get together in the same meadow some day. :ahand
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Btw Shida, plz dont make me sad. We all know democracy is broken. Nothing else left: fight.
(http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m601/Debrody/hu-me210.jpg)
(http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m601/Debrody/9Me210Ca-1bomber.jpg)
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(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/b28.jpg)
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Getting some nice paintings here at least.
From the cockpit of the 410: "Turn RIGHT! C'mon, turn RIGHT! Gunner, load solid shot!"
- oldman
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Id prefer a TBD, USN Brewster, Helldiver, Judy, Oscar,He111,Do17 over other stuff. The stuff events are made of. One of the main reasons Im not really interested in events lately is because I was tired of seeing JU88s in the BoB type events. From a purely war-fan point of view, the history got boring after 43 for me.
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Agreed. After 1943, there wasn't any of the great sweeping offensives, none of the neat, elegant victories from earlier in the war.
After that, it just became a long, grinding retreat for the germans, and for the allies and soviets... a shell pocked landscaped carved away from the stuborn defenders, every inch payed for in blood.
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The upcoming scenario, Enemy Coast Ahead, is 1943 Channel Front. RAF vs. Luftwaffe; Spitfires, Typhoons, Mosquitoes, B-25's vs. 109's, 190's, and Ju 88's, which were planes that were there in the fight.
So, no excuses, you! ;)
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ditto
Absolutely! Who the heck wants another uber perkied Jet that only shows when all heck is breaking loose. Shoots crap outta everything, the runs home. BFD! :furious
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Yes if the spit was as relatively less significant as the 410 is in the context here, IE which plane to add next here and now in this game Aces High.
The Mossie's no pig. The quad 20s aren't just curious gizmos EXACTLY because the airframe allows em to be put to excellent use.
The 152 is not arguably redundant to the 190s and all of Luftwaffe planeset because nothing else does high altitude nor its mix of hi-alt/long range + tnb + heavy firepower. The 152's a completely different animal from the rest of the 190 line up.
I didn't write that strawman.
Mossie will tear it up. But that's ok if it has those tail guns, right?
Well said! :salute
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(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f147/Wmaker/410.jpg)
Strange looking plane & I love it!! :banana:
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Too bad that 410 won't be chasing one of these.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/TFmk10.jpg)
Not that something like this would ever find any kind of use in AH :) Remember that it would just end up as a hanger queen while folks took their torpedo and rocket laden Mossies...er...wait!
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/Beaufighter-Mark-X.jpg)
HTC doesn't want to have to model the nosecone radar or screen internally...? :D
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Round 1, Beau.
Round 2, 410.
Round 3, 410.
I voted 410 in round two because I honestly didn't think the Beau would get knocked out. I expected it to be the Beau, 410 and Meteor. Kind of wish I had voted the Beau again... :bhead But with a margin of 1%+, I highly doubt my vote would've made a difference. :cry I am expecting the Meteor to win, unfortunately. But it would've been awesome if we had a 39/25 type of thing happen between the 410 and Beau and ended up with both.
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If next round is between the Me410 and either the Meteor or Yak-3 I will vote for the Me410. If it is between the Meteor and Yak-3 I will vote for the Meteor. I just don't see the Yak-3 being enough different from the Yak-9U. I've looked at their numbers and I have trouble seeing all that much of a difference.
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Btw Shida, plz dont make me sad. We all know democracy is broken. Nothing else left: fight.
The human race is in its infancy Debrody. Don't let it get you down.
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The human race is in its infancy Debrody. Don't let it get you down.
well be living on planet mars soon.... chin up...
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The human race is in its infancy Debrody. Don't let it get you down.
Don't listen to Shida he likes Ruhbarb :old:
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If next round is between the Me410 and either the Meteor or Yak-3 I will vote for the Me410. If it is between the Meteor and Yak-3 I will vote for the Meteor. I just don't see the Yak-3 being enough different from the Yak-9U. I've looked at their numbers and I have trouble seeing all that much of a difference.
I feel the same way, Karnak.
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Don't listen to Shida he likes Ruhbarb :old:
That's a viscous lie and you can't prove it. Go on say it again I dare you (http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/1504/cruisinforabruisin.gif)
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Inclusion of the meteor is a terrible mistake . It does not fit the past philosophy of the game . It's inclusion opens the argument that any design conceived during WWII is an eligible platform to be added to the game . It muddies the requirement for a plane (or GV ) to have been involved in active combat . To be fair I personally don't like or think any of the jets belong in the game but that is an extremely moot point . Since the good folks at HTC (who's efforts I approve of very much) have considered adding the Meteor of all aircraft , I believe , if it makes it , they will have to include V1 flying bombs for it to have something to do .
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That's a viscous lie and you can't prove it. Go on say it again I dare you (http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/1504/cruisinforabruisin.gif)
Ruhbarb man! :)
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Quite so... I'm not sure what's going on with him right now.
Go on Dr Freud.. Let's all hear your diagnostic.
:headscratch:
Moot, I am not following here. You seem to be posting on both sides of the Me410 issue.
Could is the key word.
Yak-3 would be Later War only. Me410 would be Mid War. Meteor, of course, would be Late War.
Some of the important 410 configs could be LW only. MK103 or something.. Don't recall exactly but some of them are way past the (admittedly really blurry - it's IIRC anywhere from mid/late 43 to some time in 44) standard set by current plane set.
Perhaps Moot's opinion changes as his understanding deepens and his thoughts resolve. You can hardly really berate someone for doing that. Especially when you contrast it to the methods of some clowns. :old:
I've done it before and never shied away from admitting as much afterwards. I actually really like when it happens. What more could you ask for - to be EVEN MORE RIGHT :D
The white rabbit here's nothing secret. Only the single seater Me 410 would be competitive in dogfights. It saw squadron wide use, "more than the 152 did". Something like at least 20-30 of em were made after months of insistence by no less than Galland (Galland? or another of the few huge names who had his spot as top Luftwaffe dog -- it went all the way IIRC to bouncing the idea off Hitler for his approval, to speed things up) and other top Luftwaffe and Reich brass. Specifically for that model to go into production. Galland (assuming I'm recalling right that it's him) was pushing for a personal production/action plan of either 50% or 100% of day 410 Zerstorer production being single seaters.
Of course how it actually happened is that the 410 got cancelled right around the time the Reich melted down by Allied efforts. The end of the 410 story as you know it reading those RLM (or whatever the Luftwaffe-Reichwaffles chief exec meetings were called) accelerates in an acute exponential starting with gradual acceptance that 410 is worthless for night fighter duty, to everything being bet on those particular variant production focuses over months of tense meetings, to austerity measures (build normally metal stuff with wood etc - you know something's up when that's all there is in Luftwaffe meeting minutes), to everything being cancelled to focus all industrial effort on a handful of main types - Fw 190, Do 335 (iirc), etc. .
It's as if reality hit em in the face all of a sudden.
But back on topic, that's the deal here. A night and day difference between two and single seater variants. The single seater meets all "standard" AH criteria. Saw action at squadron level. Has a few pilot recollections, and a few pictures to show for it. When you look at the numbers it's pretty clear that the 2S 410 would be a mildly different 110G. The SS'er 410 would be right in the P-38 and Mossie performance ballpark. So... The tally is that it satisfies "official" criteria and that it'd be so much more fun for all who tried/flew it. And no it wouldn't be any uber machine either. The SS'er only flew with quad 20mm, no MK103s or BK5. I'm not sure if they used WGr's, but given that it was meant to be as cleaned up as possible, I'd reckon it wouldn't have em.
If next round is between the Me410 and either the Meteor or Yak-3 I will vote for the Me410. If it is between the Meteor and Yak-3 I will vote for the Meteor. I just don't see the Yak-3 being enough different from the Yak-9U. I've looked at their numbers and I have trouble seeing all that much of a difference.
Did the numbers include roll rate? Just off the wall idea. Could make a big difference if the weight loss affected it a lot. Cf. Mk XVI.
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If you want a fighter competitive with other fighters, we have those in-game. 20 airframes, out of 1000, had this modification. That's more rare than the 3-gun LA-7. Edit: It's still "possible" HTC might do something along these lines, but .... I can't see it as very probably /edit
I get that you like the idea, but if that's the reason you only were interested in the Me410, you're missing out on most of the fun. To each their own, though.
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I'm not after a 410 that's not a 410, I'm after a 410 that's eligible and better than yet another 110 except it has some "precious" tail gun gizmos. The single seat 410 wouldn't be any better against single engine fighters than the Mossie and 38 are.
If the 410 didn't have the single seat variant I would've voted Beaufighter.
I get that you like the idea, but if that's the reason you only were interested in the Me410, you're missing out on most of the fun
It's like you're only capable of getting it wrong. How can you pretend to read others minds like this when you invariably read em wrong?
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[Edited: It's not worth the aggravation]
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And again I tell ya. WTF are you smoking to be taken over by these delusions that someone talking to you completely calmly and frankly MUST be angry or offended?
You admit you only care about the rare single-seat version.
READING COMPREHENSION, 101
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HEY leave the 38 out of this. :P
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The 38's pretty much the gold standard for twin performance. :)
And lest someone misread what I wrote because of Krusty's interpretation - I'm not asking for the 410 to be only single seater. I'm saying itd be a great option in the hangar. Along with, and at the cost of none of the rest of the options. Which looks doable, I ran thru it in one of those threads +-1 year ago.
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[Edited: It's not worth the aggravation]
And it wasn't personally meant to get you riled up. Sorry
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Yeah. I sound upset. You keep saying that. It's just as incorrect every single time. How many times before you notice a pattern?
you keep alternating between praise and disparaging comments on the 410 in general. Hence my "admitted you only care about the single seater" conclusion.
They both were accurate and non-contradictory.
I wouldn't have voted 410 without likelihood of SS'er because without it it's too redundant to say with a straight face that we (we, IMO) need it more than a Beaufighter or Meteor or Ki-something-early-war or whatever.
It was simply meant to suggest we explore more of the game than one narrow field.
Where you pull this stuff from like you could be so sure of it is a mystery to me.
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They both were accurate and non-contradictory.
Fair enough... The signals you sent were mixed, and I wasn't the only one to mention it (I wasn't even the first). You can't blame me for that.
I wouldn't have voted 410 without likelihood of SS'er because without it it's too redundant to say with a straight face that we (we, IMO) need it more than a Beaufighter or Meteor or Ki-something-early-war or whatever.
...and comments like that are where I get this from:
Where you pull this stuff from like you could be so sure of it is a mystery to me.
Saying something like that, with that choice of words, suggests you only care about the single seater. If that's not the case, then I'm sorry for the misunderstanding. You might want to re-read before posting. It could be read as saying you only care about the single seater (for example), or it could mean as you suggest now it's true meaning is that the single seater puts it above the others on the list, but isn't the only reason you want it. This latter message doesn't come through as strongly.
So, again: sorry for the mixup.
EDIT: P.S. If we're going to nitpick, in my comment I said "IF"... IF. If not, then it's not a problem.
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Again. Who said anything about blame? Blame for what and what for? Why do you keep bringing these nagging emotional worries into every single technical argument?
This is why I don't bother anymore. Not even for something I want as much as this pixel plane.
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Again. Who said anything about blame? Blame for what and what for? Why do you keep bringing these nagging emotional worries into every single technical argument?
This is why I don't bother anymore. Not even for something I want as much as this pixel plane.
What he is referring to, Moot, is that the tone of your most recent posts implies that you are irritated with him. The result is unpleasant to read. The "nagging emotional worries" which you disparage appear to be an attempt on his part to return the conversation to a more friendly plane. Regardless of his previous transgressions (numerous though they may be), this attempt on his part would appear to be a good thing. What is the problem with this?
MH
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Your own words. to "Krusty's misinterpretation" and saying I'm spreading this misunderstanding to others. I wasn't the first, and I wasn't the only one. It's not my fault folks were misunderstanding your comment.
There was the blame, directly from you, to me. You claim you're all emotionless, all technical, but you're not.
That's all I'm going to say on it. I explained my reactions which were based only on your own words. I said I'm sorry. Don't villify me for no reason.
EDIT: Thanks TDeacon. I think most people understand me and only a few are having issues right now. I try not to hold it against 'em. :)
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What he is referring to, Moot, is that the tone of your most recent posts implies that you are irritated with him. The result is unpleasant to read. The "nagging emotional worries" which you disparage appear to be an attempt on his part to return the conversation to a more friendly plane. Regardless of his previous transgressions (numerous though they may be), this attempt on his part would appear to be a good thing. What is the problem with this?
MH
What you don't see is krusty's edited stuff.... context.
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What he is referring to, Moot, is that the tone of your most recent posts implies that you are irritated with him. The result is unpleasant to read. The "nagging emotional worries" which you disparage appear to be an attempt on his part to return the conversation to a more friendly plane. Regardless of his previous transgressions (numerous though they may be), this attempt on his part would appear to be a good thing. What is the problem with this?
MH
I am irritated after years of trying.
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See Rule #4
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See Rule #2
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See Rule #4
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See Rule #4
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See Rule #2
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Yak3
problem solved Muahahahahaha
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Yes, thank GOD... get this back on topic!
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Reading this though this I can understand why m00t feels exasperated :lol
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He has no right to be exasperated with the way he's replied. Let's put that behind us, please.
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See Rule #2
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See Rule #4
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I would like to ask that yall all remember that I am right and yall or wrong. That is unless yall agree with me, in which case you'd be right not wrong.
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I would like to ask that yall all remember that I am right and yall or wrong. That is unless yall agree with me, in which case you'd be right not wrong.
But what if you're wrong...?
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But what if you're wrong...?
In that case there would be no issues for anyone as the world ended and hell froze over.
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Moot: you blew this out of proportion
:lol
Keeping strictly to facts is blowing out of proportion.. There's just nothing more to add to that.
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Actually nevermind. Yarbles' signature is extraordinarily correct and relevant :rofl
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He has no right to be exasperated with the way he's replied. Let's put that behind us, please.
Your not sticking to the facts like m00t says, you are trying to change it into something different, then when he becomes exasperated with this you use that as proof that the way you think he was acting before was valid.
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Your not sticking to the facts like m00t says, you are trying to change it into something different, then when he becomes exasperated with this you use that as proof that the way you think he was acting before was valid.
ding ding ding .... winna
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How many Krusty's is this thread up to?
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See Rule #4
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See Rule #4
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LMAO now we can't read.
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See Rule #2
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See Rule #4
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See Rule #2
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See Rules #2, #4
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See Rule #2
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Someone call a Wah-mbulance quick! :rofl This threat went all the way to Sux! withing 4-5 posts. :furious grade-school arguing? What is worse than Sux? :bhead Oh yeah! ME-410
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I want the Me410, but I won't be sad if the Yak-3 gets added.
Say, it occurs to me that per a long ago post, fighters take less work to be added than bombers do. The last two votes resulted in bombers. How about we get both the Me410 and Yak-3? :P
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I want the Me410, but I won't be sad if the Yak-3 gets added.
Say, it occurs to me that per a long ago post, fighters take less work to be added than bombers do. The last two votes resulted in bombers. How about we get both the Me410 and Yak-3? :P
Or we could be real greedy and ask for them all! :devil Really wasnt a bad choice in the bunch and I'd be happy to see any of them,well yaks do have this strange smell.
:salute