Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Pyro on October 26, 2011, 09:21:08 AM
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Round 3 has ended with the Meteor being eliminated. The final round is now underway with the Me 410 vs the Yak 3. Voting will end Monday morning Oct 31.
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lol
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good
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WOOOOTTT!!! Eat it jet jockies :devil
voting Yak in hopes that we get the 9U and 9T remodeled with it. :pray
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:(
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Woohooo
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Lol
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Round 3 has ended with the Meteor being eliminated.
Outstanding news!
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:huh :x
Wow. I'm very happy to be wrong today.
Heh... my reverse psychology gambit worked... The more stridently I predicted it, the more the universe moved against me to prove me wrong. Wiley wins again! :devil
Wiley.
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Best news of the day by far. Now its going to be a great battle between the yak and the 410. And I will vote 410.
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WOOT!!! most excellent news
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oh well, back to dueling 262's!
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allright!
which one now?
General characteristics
YAK 3
(http://www.world-war-2-planes.com/images/yak3-550.jpg)
Length: 8.5 m (27 ft 10 in)
Wingspan: 9.2 m (30 ft 2 in)
Height: 2.39 m (7 ft 11 in)
Wing area: 14.85 m² (159.8 ft²)
Empty weight: 2,105 kg (4,640 lb)
Loaded weight: 2,692 kg (5,864 lb)
Powerplant: 1 × Klimov VK-105PF-2 V-12 liquid-cooled piston engine, 970 kW (1,300 hp)
Performance
Maximum speed: 655 km/h (407 mph)
Range: 650 km (405 miles)
Service ceiling: 10,700 m (35,000 ft)
Rate of climb: 18.5 m/s (3,645 ft/min)
Wing loading: 181 kg/m² (36.7 lb/ft²)
Power/mass: 0.36 kW/kg (0.22 hp/lb)
Armament
Guns:
1 × 20 mm ShVAK cannon,
2 × 12.7 mm Berezin UBS machine guns
or
ME 410
(http://www.whq-forum.de/cms/uploads/pics/me210_02.jpg)
General characteristics
Crew: 2 (pilot and gunner)
Length: 12.56 m (41.2 ft)
Wingspan: 16.34 m (53.6 ft 7 in)
Height: 3.7 m (12,14 ft)
Wing area: 36.20 m² (390 ft²)
Empty weight: 6,627 kg (14,597 lb)
Max takeoff weight: 11,244 kg (24,766 lb)
Powerplant: 2 × Daimler-Benz DB 603A liquid-cooled V12 engine, 1,750 PS (1,726 hp, 1,287 kW) each
Performance
Maximum speed: 624 km/h (388 mph)
Range: 2,300 km (1,400 mi) combat
Service ceiling: 10,000 m (32,800 ft)
Armament
Guns:
2 × 7.92 mm (.312 in) MG 17 machine guns with 1,000 rpg, firing forward
4 × 20 mm MG 151/20 cannons with 350 rpg, firing forward
2 × 13 mm (.51 in) MG 131 machine guns with 500 rpg, each firing rearward from FDSL 131/1B remote-operated turret, one per side
Bombs: up to 1,000 kg (2,204 lb) of disposable stores
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I've got to vote Me-410. Both would be great adds to the game. My thoughts are around SECs, scenarios, snapshots, etc. It may be fair to say that we are dealing with Western European bias but most of the organized scenarios involve Allied versus German planes. The Me-410 will make an excellent addition to high altitude B-17 and B-24 intercepts.
Imagine how we could have modified Battle Over Germany if we had the Me-410 planeset. BOG was a 7 frame epic scenario with Me-110s engaging in the first two frames only. With the Me-410 we could more accurately follow history by keeping this focused buff killer longer. True, it remains disadvantaged against P-47s and P-51Ds though this bird takes buff hunting well into late war scenarios.
The Yak-3 would make an excellent opponent though we rarely have scenarios involving Soviet aircraft. Some might say that is due to a lack of Soviet planesets and adding the Yak-3 helps change that deficiency. I think the reverse is true in that the battles over Eastern Europe were much more about TAS and did not involve 1,000+ birds engaging in epic battles to save or destroy a city. Maybe we should have more TAS scenarios involving tanks and close air support, which would accurately reflect the airwar on the Eastern Front, but until then the Me-410 takes Aces High further.
Just my opinion.
Boo
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the BIG question is, what specs would be used for either plane? earliest production build? most produced version?
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well, thas the life... wanted to vote for the meteor every time but my mouse moved to the yak-3 everytime, don't know why... vodka power!! :rock
Just remember, next time you vote u could be helping tp fly this:
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-x82An9LBVBI/TbU8KP8XUlI/AAAAAAAABBg/hJI1Q8uUqos/s1600/Yak3TakingOff.jpg)
:aok
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the BIG question is, what specs would be used for either plane? earliest production build? most produced version?
Good point. I would vote latest modified version, which would represent either plane in their deadliest form. With the Me-410 I know they had a version with a large caliber anti-buff gun, I think 57mm (?), this would be an ideal version to add. Also, didn't it have high altitude blowers/turbo?
Boo
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WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!WOOT!!!
Glad the ones who voted for the B29 didn't win this round, OH PLEASE let us have both Yak3 and Me410!!! I will buy you a bottle of whatever Pyro!
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Voted the Me410, Debrody time to get started on that Hungarian skin =)
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Going for the 410, because they'd be easier to kill in my 109 :devil. That'll teach you to vote my beaufighter off.
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OK, for the purests I cheated and simply went to Wiki. I mentioned a version, the Me-410C, that was optimized for high altitude to include turbos and 4-bladed prop. Worked well but produced in low numbers. The most common was the Me-401B frame that had an alt max level flight of almost 400knts TAS. It also had a weapons bay that could hold bombs, photo-recon ord a pallet with additional 20mms for buff hunting. And it had a 50mm anti-tank gun used in the Panzer III that could kill buffs beyond 1,000m.
The history of this bird is pretty solid when escorted. When not it was not a match for P-51Ds or P-47s. Again, a great add to large scenarios. I can see BOG II taking place next year and having a squadron or two of Me-410Bs escorted by Bf-109G-14/K-4s, Fw-190A8/D-9s and getting after the buffs. If organized and lead well, great recon and coordination they will blow massive holes through Allied bomber formations. If not, they will end in burning piles of metal at the hands of Allied fighters.
Vote Me-410B if you want some serious action! Again, my two cents.
Boo
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the BIG question is, what specs would be used for either plane? earliest production build? most produced version?
There's no real debate about the specs of the Me410. About the yak, I couldn't say, though.
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Mthrockmor, the 410C was never produced. The 410A and 410B were the same plane but with the 7mm BB guns swapped out for 13mm BB guns (like the 109G2 vs 109G6, you see?). Otherwise performance was identical and based on what loadout you had. Either airframe could take either A or B loadouts, although with the natural progression of time some are found more on the A than on the B -- but this is changing need rather than any change in the airframe itself.
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i voted Yak.
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Just a tidbit before the results come out on Monday for all those who thought the Meteor was a sure thing. The Meteor barely made it out of round 2 finishing just ahead of the Beaufighter.
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I've known that I'm really bad at picking winners for years now, turns out I'm apparently equally bad at picking the losers.
:)
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410 FTW!
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Just a tidbit before the results come out on Monday for all those who thought the Meteor was a sure thing. The Meteor barely made it out of round 2 finishing just ahead of the Beaufighter.
(http://www.monologuedb.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Jim-Carrey-as-Ace-Ventura-Pet-Detective-150x150.jpg)
Oh reheheheheeeeaaaaly?
That's very interesting!
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Just a tidbit before the results come out on Monday for all those who thought the Meteor was a sure thing. The Meteor barely made it out of round 2 finishing just ahead of the Beaufighter.
:o So much for my forecasting. Might as well become a weatherman or an economist!
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Just a tidbit before the results come out on Monday for all those who thought the Meteor was a sure thing. The Meteor barely made it out of round 2 finishing just ahead of the Beaufighter.
:huh
Faith in humanity... okay, not restored, but slightly higher than it was yesterday. Definitely happy I was wrong. :)
Wiley.
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Give us both plz. 2 awsome additions.
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Give us both plz.
They may just do that... Only, which first? We should have a vote! :devil :D
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Vote yak!
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I'm thinking Yak has too many vowels in it... I mean it's got the consonant, which is good, it's got the vowel.. but what's this Y? Is it a vowel or consonant?
Nay! I say go with the Me! Alphabetically, it's better. :t
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Just a tidbit before the results come out on Monday for all those who thought the Meteor was a sure thing. The Meteor barely made it out of round 2 finishing just ahead of the Beaufighter.
Thank you, Pyro, my faith in my fellow person has been restored. Well...restored some....
Must have been funny to watch all of our postings.
And now: Yak Attack!
- oldman
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Adding the beaufighter might wake up some of the other arenas that currently sit empty.
Adding a late war heavily armed speedster will not.
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Are you referring to the 410, or the yak? Because the 410 isn't that fast. Definitely not a speedster. The yak is horribly lightly armed, 120 rounds of 20mm in a single hub gun, and some short-ammo-load pea shooters.
And no, no plane addition is going to "wake up" the other arenas. It's way more complicated than that.
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Just a tidbit before the results come out on Monday for all those who thought the Meteor was a sure thing. The Meteor barely made it out of round 2 finishing just ahead of the Beaufighter.
It would of been interesting to see the M410 and Beaufighter both voted in together, it would seriously be a tough choice then. Much as I love the Yak-3, the Gun package really is what is letting me down, also for the lack of drop tanks (gimmie a DT in a C205 and I'd fly it).
Overall I'd love to see HTC add Both Yak-3 and Me410, If the voting comes close we should at least consider that option, why lose 1 plane to a few votes?
Certainly voting the Beaufighter next time around, love to see twin engines :)
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(http://img48.imageshack.us/img48/1091/me410.jpg)
Just managed to get on for a few seconds and voted for the 410. I sure hope it wins.
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Adding the beaufighter might wake up some of the other arenas that currently sit empty.
Adding a late war heavily armed speedster will not.
Posting with out having any knowledge of what you are talking about shame! Its Armed for late war, however hardly a Speedster at 575km or 357mph at alt or 301mph on the deck. It won't win over any dogfighters, however its versatility is what makes this a wonderful bird, you can attack buffs, dogfight, ground attack.
The Beaufighter will simply NOT wake up any arenas, although its something to fly next to the Me110 and B-38.
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Look out at the wing, just short of the "H" painted on it. See that?
That's where the 50mm hit the wing from the Me410 banking away, and miraculously passed through or was a dud. Photo taken from the radio room, and the guy behind the camera is lucky to be there.
P.S. Butcher, the 410 top speed was 390 clean at alt.
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Look out at the wing, just short of the "H" painted on it. See that?
That's where the 50mm hit the wing from the Me410 banking away, and miraculously passed through or was a dud. Photo taken from the radio room, and the guy behind the camera is lucky to be there.
P.S. Butcher, the 410 top speed was 390 clean at alt.
Which model? I was giving spec's for the M410 a-1, not quite sure which model will be added
Edited:
Looking at the specs,
Me410 A-1 had 1010 total completed in production
ME410 A-3 had 109
Me410 B-2 had 319
Me410 B-3 had 34
Guessing A1 and B-2 will be optioned?
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410A and 410B had exact same engine and airframes, exact same top speeds. 388 MPH TAS listed, but this is probably with the external racks onboard, making it between 390 adn 395 clean.
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Whew!
There's some sense in this world after all...
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410A and 410B had exact same engine and airframes, exact same top speeds. 388 MPH TAS listed, but this is probably with the external racks onboard, making it between 390 adn 395 clean.
Ah thats right, the specs include fully weighted and not empty, my mistake
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For any given 410A/B, the main difference will just be what is installed in the bomb bay or on the underwing/underbelly racks. That may or may not affect performance in some way, but a loaded plane with no externals and no bomb bay guns/bombs is what I meant by "clean.'
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Ah too bad. Would have been nice to experience the Meteor but I do understand the relief. Maybe one day :old:
Well the Yak 3 looks nice and gets a very good write up. Think I'll vote for that one. Which version have they proposed they would include?
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Posting with out having any knowledge of what you are talking about shame! Its Armed for late war, however hardly a Speedster at 575km or 357mph at alt or 301mph on the deck. It won't win over any dogfighters, however its versatility is what makes this a wonderful bird, you can attack buffs, dogfight, ground attack.
The Beaufighter will simply NOT wake up any arenas, although its something to fly next to the Me110 and B-38.
LOL.......I used to restore warbirds for the national air and space museum.
My comment is a general comment relevent to the thread title and not related the the tangent the thread took before I posted it.
RE: ME410.....I currently fly in arenas that feature the 410 and find the 110 taken more often when there is a choice between the two.
This is because the overall firepower still favors the 110 by a pretty large margin.
As far as "waking up arenas" an early war plane would have a much bigger effect than a late model plane that already has 4 variants of near the same armament or performance in game.
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I currently fly in arenas that feature the 410
Saaay whut? :uhoh
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As far as "waking up arenas" an early war plane would have a much bigger effect than a late model plane that already has 4 variants of near the same armament or performance in game.
No plane addition whatsoever will "wake up" any of the lesser populated arenas. The reasons they are underpopulated are manifold and not just by a lack of planes. When the Brewster and the I-16 were about to be introduced to AH, some here on the BBS predicted a rise of activity in EW.
Nothing did happen. ;)
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Maybe he means in another game? But you really can't compare in that case.
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How many 410's were fitted with the BK-5 autocannon? :noid
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Maybe he means in another game? But you really can't compare in that case.
If that's the case I would totally agree with you. If he's talking IL2 mods that added the Me410, I've flown them, and while fun they don't handle, or react, the way AH planes do. They also don't have the same environment. In AH environments, the me110G is used for a lot of things (other than "fighter" mode)... the 410 is a better 110, and would logically have a place in lieu of the 110G in main arena activities.
The only way a 110G has more firepower is if you count the 2x 30mm on the 110G compared to a 410 that doesn't have any. You put 2x Mk103s on the 410 and it's got more power. You put 4x, 6x, dare I say 8x 20mm on the 410, and you have better firepower on the 410. Those 30mm on the 110G are nice, and I don't mean to downplay how powerful they are. I'm just showing there is a reasonable debate about which has the better firepower.
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How many 410's were fitted with the BK-5 autocannon? :noid
I believe over 100. It was intended to be the main armament. Some pilots removed them and had them replaced with the 4x 20mm "tray" insert instead. They had a tendency to jam, and after that point you had to press the attack with your lighter default loadout. Swapping the big gun for more lesser guns was a better option (for some pilots).
In short: It was common enough.
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The two things that have limited Eastern Front battles have been lack of terrains and lack of Soviet early/mid-war aircraft (such as Yak-1 and LaGG-3 for fighters, and Pe-2 for attack planes). We did run a late-war Eastern Front -- Red Storm/Krupp Steel -- which was great fun. Late war is fine -- we can use Germany terrain for that one, and there is a fine set of Soviet aircraft to use there: La-7, La-5, and Yak-9. The Yak-3 doesn't change that dynamic, though, since it is a late-war plane that became operational after the Yak-9, and it has performance similar to a Yak-9.
I would love to do more Eastern Front. The great majority of all fighting in WWII in ETO was between Germans and Soviets. We are getting more Eastern Front terrains, and I hold out hope that we will get a Pe-2 and a Yak-1 and/or LaGG-3.
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Adding the beaufighter might wake up some of the other arenas that currently sit empty.
Adding a late war heavily armed speedster will not.
It may bring in a few more people to the other arenas, but not cause them to "wake up".
My primary reason for not venturing into the EWA (and it's been a long time since I was there and if I were to guess, the MWA has the same issue with ack), is the Late War Era ack on the bases and ships. A stop gap is to tone down the damage dealt by said ack but, the "true" way would be to make changes to the type of guns used as ack. .30 cal, .50 cals mostly, with few 20mm. The few 20mm's that would be on base would be singles or duals, not likely quads. Ships would be have to be remodeled in order to change them to their early war variants (or new ships modeled altogether), which had fewer and less powerful ack guns, and more anti-ship weapons.
As is, I'm much better off flying a EW plane in the LWA. I get more perks for blowing stuff up and I wouldn't be by myself most of the time.
As for the vote, I will vote 410. However, through out the voting, I truly didn't care what wins (but of course I voted for something I'd like to see next :D). All the planes listed in the forum post would be awesome additions to fly (in my case, littering the landscape with :joystick: :bhead) and adds more variety. So, while I am hoping the 410 wins against the Yak 3, should the Yak 3 win, I would die in.....er, fail fl-.....wait; successfully spawn one on the runway. Yes, yes...that's the ticket. :D
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Hmmm. My expectation had been that the Yak-3 would be eliminated leaving the Me410 vs the Meteor where the Meteor would lose.
I voted for the Me410 as the Yak-3 will be all but indistinguishable from the Yak-9U.
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I voted for the Me410 as the Yak-3 will be all but indistinguishable from the Yak-9U.
I read it had the same engine but was a lot smaller and lighter. Other people said there would be little difference too. Am I reading up on the wrong aircraft?
This one I thought:-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AN1-5BP0xSU
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Youre wrong, Shida.
The wartime Jak-3s had only 1200 horses under the hood. Not so much, but the plane was extreme light, 5800lbs loaded. The wing area was also very small, only 160 sq feet.
The plane was very fast for its weak engine, like 400mph and could climb very well, at 3600-3700 feet/min. The sustained turn rate was 17 seconds per a circle what is the same as the ki-84. I dont know about its flaps, possibly it had normal ones, so the 30mph reverse madness on the ki wont appear on this aircraft. The weapons were the same as on the in-game jak-9.
Based on its specs, it would be clearly inferior to the ki-84/spit8,9,16, but a bit superior to the 109F in every aspect. A light little killer.
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Round 3 has ended with the Meteor being eliminated.
This day just gets better and better.
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I read it had the same engine but was a lot smaller and lighter. Other people said there would be little difference too. Am I reading up on the wrong aircraft?
This one I thought:-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AN1-5BP0xSU
The post war Yak-3 had the VK-107 like the Yak-9U. The wartime Yak-3 had a VK-105 like the Yak-9T. It pretty much matches the Yak-9U's performance on the less powerful engine due to its lower weight and smaller dimensions, but it doesn't gain much maneuverability from the weight savings either as its wing loading is pretty close to the Yak-9U's.
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Youre wrong, Shida.
I may well be, I've only given it the once over lightly when I found out the Meteor was out.
the 30mph reverse madness on the ki wont appear on this aircraft.
If you're saying the flaps are incorrectly modelled on Aces High's Ki-84 then you are correct, but not in the direction you mean.
Also 30 m.p.h. is pushing it a little in my experience.
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Whew!
There's some sense in this world after all...
+1
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Haha never said that.
I said, that the ki has fowler ones what gives it the ability to do that wicked reversal.
None of the planes with normal flaps can do nearly the same, so possily the Jak couldnt do it either.
Btw Bruv has a film about me and him. I did some real slow reversals there, would be curious about the speeds i did then. Forgot to switch my film on... : (
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YAK-3!!! :aok
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for all of you 410 nuts out there:
http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/weapons_me_410.html (http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/weapons_me_410.html)
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for all of you 410 nuts out there:
http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/weapons_me_410.html (http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/weapons_me_410.html)
Captain1ma, no offense meant to you, but just for general public FYI: You can pretty much rule out anything that page says as reliable. It makes a large number or errors. If it lists Mk108s as weapons options it's iffy, if it says DB603Gs it's just totally untrustworthy. It's just full of lots of mistakes.
The effort was appreciated, though.
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Captain1ma, no offense meant to you, but just for general public FYI: You can pretty much rule out anything that page says as reliable. It makes a large number or errors. If it lists Mk108s as weapons options it's iffy, if it says DB603Gs it's just totally untrustworthy. It's just full of lots of mistakes.
The effort was appreciated, though.
actually krusty, i've compared info from various manuals and other sites and there are some glaring errors in some areas but...much of it is pretty accurate.
Me 410A-1
Engines
Two DB 603A twelve cylinder liquid cooled engines
Horsepower
1,750
Weight (empty)
13559 lb
Speed
388 mph
Crew
2
Range
1450 miles
Span
53 feet 7.25 inches
Length
40 feet 11.33 inches
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I really know nothing about the Yak 3 but I'm not satisfied with the mismatch with what I'm being told here and what I'm reading about it. What about this story regarding 109 pilots being told not to engage a Yak with no oil cooler under 10,000 metres, or the combat reports suggesting a Luftwaffe spanking?
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As Steven Tyler says, "yak yak yak yak yak Ow!"
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The sim needs more Russian aircraft period.....
Why a yak when we have... no migs... no laggs... no I 153s.. :headscratch:
in-spite of that I hope for the Yak3 over the other choices.
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the ME 410 reminds me of the BF110
i am voting for the Yak3
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WOOOOTTT!!! Eat it jet jockies :devil
voting Yak in hopes that we get the 9U and 9T remodeled with it. :pray
:aok
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For the officianados...
Wasn't there a Me-410 version with mid-section mounted cannons that fired upward at a 60 degree angle so they could shoot down bombers from below?
Boo
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to the meteor voters, with love.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5QGkOGZubQ
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I really know nothing about the Yak 3 but I'm not satisfied with the mismatch with what I'm being told here and what I'm reading about it. What about this story regarding 109 pilots being told not to engage a Yak with no oil cooler under 10,000 metres, or the combat reports suggesting a Luftwaffe spanking?
It was told to the pilots for a good reason.
The yaks sustained turn rate was about 10% better than the 109G2/6s one. Considering it wasnt about having/not having virtual ballz but about human lives, i wouldnt turn with one what can turn 10% better than me.
Just for skorpeone: 410 pwnz all : )
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yak-3...must....win!
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I voted 410...I voted 410
Nah nah na boo boo
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Guess the best question - which of the two that provides a lot of fun? (remembering this _IS_ a game afterall. :D
We all know we need more Japanese, Russian, and updated models of this and that, but that isn't how we arrived here.
HTC read the wishlist, listened to vets of the game and came up with the initial list. Now we are at a point were The Players have decided which is best, not us forum trolls.
Btw - go 410 :x
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We all know we need more Japanese, Russian, and updated models of this and that, but that isn't how we arrived here.
We do, but the Yak-3 fills the exact same slot as the Yak-9U and has extremely similar performance.
I voted for the Me410, again.
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I voted... who cares
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vote yak 3 and get 3 new looking planes :3
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vote yak 3 and get 3 new looking planes :3
This assumes the Yaks aren't going to be updated anyways.
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:frown:
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I was quite shocked actually that the Yak and 410 are the two left. . . I was sure it was going to be 410 vs. Meteor. I think a lot of us did.
Tough vote though. . .really tough.
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(http://img48.imageshack.us/img48/1091/me410.jpg)
Just managed to get on for a few seconds and voted for the 410. I sure hope it wins.
After taking a closer look at this picture, it would appear that that Me-410 has a 3 bladed prop. But wasn't the 410 that had the 50mm gun a 4 bladed prop or am I just thinking of the high alt version in general?
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i vote for the 410, but would really like to see maybe the A-26 or :pray P-61 :pray
an on the gv end maybe the m26 to counter the tiger2 an panther :rock
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http://youtu.be/7cGAC6D7eng (http://youtu.be/7cGAC6D7eng)
The hearts of many English were broken today.
The systematic destruction of The Few continues to be on schedule.
:neener:
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ME410, it really is that simple. :aok
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If that's the case I would totally agree with you. If he's talking IL2 mods that added the Me410, I've flown them, and while fun they don't handle, or react, the way AH planes do. They also don't have the same environment. In AH environments, the me110G is used for a lot of things (other than "fighter" mode)... the 410 is a better 110, and would logically have a place in lieu of the 110G in main arena activities.
The only way a 110G has more firepower is if you count the 2x 30mm on the 110G compared to a 410 that doesn't have any. You put 2x Mk103s on the 410 and it's got more power. You put 4x, 6x, dare I say 8x 20mm on the 410, and you have better firepower on the 410. Those 30mm on the 110G are nice, and I don't mean to downplay how powerful they are. I'm just showing there is a reasonable debate about which has the better firepower.
The ME410 has been there with flight modeling adjustments being performed since 2002.
This is no cheesy IL2 add-on with very little flight, damage, and gunnery modeling.
I've flown these variants and still use the 110 more often than the 410 but I do love the 410 for certain mission profiles.
I'm not promoting any sim over Aces High because I prefer to fly AH over all other aviation sims.
Bf-110C-4
Bf-110C-4B
Bf-110F-1
Bf-110G-2
Bf-110G-2/R1
Bf-110G-2/R3
Bf-110G-2/R4
Me-410A-1
Me-410A-1/U2
Me-410A-2
Me-410A-2/U4
Me-410B-1
Me-410B-1/U4
Me-410B-2/U2/R3
Me-410B-2/U2/R4
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After taking a closer look at this picture, it would appear that that Me-410 has a 3 bladed prop. But wasn't the 410 that had the 50mm gun a 4 bladed prop or am I just thinking of the high alt version in general?
No Me410 ever had 4 blades. There was a prototype or two (Me310?) that did, but this was never a production model.
Icepac: I'm familiar with the quality of it. It's "nice" but not perfect. It's also very arbitrary and community-created... So the one from AAA gives the 410B MW50 and 50km/h boost for no reason (just because), and the one from UP/SAS has standard DB601A's. The mk213 cannon loadouts are 100% fictitious, the 3x WGR21 loadouts are 100% ficticious, the Mk108 loadouts are 100% inaccurate....
So while it's "nice" it's also highly subjective and overall I wouldn't trust it as a representation of the AH 410 for the above reasons and one other major reason:
The IL2 servers are nothing at all like AH's arenas. The player interactions, the mission profiles, the action in general. None of it is even comparable. Even when you compare IL2 servers using the same types of setups as your common late-war furball, you won't find similar action between the two.
Where a 410 might have little benefit in the strict layout of an IL2 modded server, in the free-form AH LWA, it definitely would.
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None of what I referenced is in IL2
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allright!
which one now?
General characteristics
YAK 3
(http://www.world-war-2-planes.com/images/yak3-550.jpg)
Length: 8.5 m (27 ft 10 in)
Wingspan: 9.2 m (30 ft 2 in)
Height: 2.39 m (7 ft 11 in)
Wing area: 14.85 m² (159.8 ft²)
Empty weight: 2,105 kg (4,640 lb)
Loaded weight: 2,692 kg (5,864 lb)
Powerplant: 1 × Klimov VK-105PF-2 V-12 liquid-cooled piston engine, 970 kW (1,300 hp)
Performance
Maximum speed: 655 km/h (407 mph)
Range: 650 km (405 miles)
Service ceiling: 10,700 m (35,000 ft)
Rate of climb: 18.5 m/s (3,645 ft/min)
Wing loading: 181 kg/m² (36.7 lb/ft²)
Power/mass: 0.36 kW/kg (0.22 hp/lb)
Armament
Guns:
1 × 20 mm ShVAK cannon,
2 × 12.7 mm Berezin UBS machine guns
or
ME 410
(http://www.whq-forum.de/cms/uploads/pics/me210_02.jpg)
General characteristics
Crew: 2 (pilot and gunner)
Length: 12.56 m (41.2 ft)
Wingspan: 16.34 m (53.6 ft 7 in)
Height: 3.7 m (12,14 ft)
Wing area: 36.20 m² (390 ft²)
Empty weight: 6,627 kg (14,597 lb)
Max takeoff weight: 11,244 kg (24,766 lb)
Powerplant: 2 × Daimler-Benz DB 603A liquid-cooled V12 engine, 1,750 PS (1,726 hp, 1,287 kW) each
Performance
Maximum speed: 624 km/h (388 mph)
Range: 2,300 km (1,400 mi) combat
Service ceiling: 10,000 m (32,800 ft)
Armament
Guns:
2 × 7.92 mm (.312 in) MG 17 machine guns with 1,000 rpg, firing forward
4 × 20 mm MG 151/20 cannons with 350 rpg, firing forward
2 × 13 mm (.51 in) MG 131 machine guns with 500 rpg, each firing rearward from FDSL 131/1B remote-operated turret, one per side
Bombs: up to 1,000 kg (2,204 lb) of disposable stores
based on armament alone,the 410 will win.
personally, i'd have liked to see something japanese, or anything to fill gaps in earlier time periods.
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I'd love to see the KI44.
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I too would love to have seen the KI-44 introduced to AH. To bad it was eliminated during the voting in the forums. Although I think that the fact it was present on the current list was a big leap forward to having it in game.
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Ditto on the "Tojo". We had the IIc model in FA with 4x 20mm cannons until it was neutered for gameplay reasons and we ended up with mgs. We also had the Ki44 with the 37mm, but it was (obviously) slower and less maneuverable. If I recall, the Ki-44IIc was one of Bruv's (or Takeshis_Castle, IIRC... lol) specialties back in the day.
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It would probably be nice with the 4x12.7 HO103 or with the 2x40 loadouts and just forget the 4x20mm loadout.
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No Me410 ever had 4 blades. There was a prototype or two (Me310?) that did, but this was never a production model.
I honestly thought I read that in another thread, which is why I brought it up. Meh, me imagining things. :rolleyes: :bhead :lol
I am curious as to how they will code the defensive guns. :headscratch:
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I am curious as to how they will code the defensive guns. :headscratch:
probably about like the gun turrets on the b-29...but no left/right traverse, just up and down.
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The guns went out left and right as well as up and down on the Me410.
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The guns went out left and right as well as up and down on the Me410.
didn't realize there was a lateral movement...guessing it was same on the 210?
(http://odkrywca.pl/forum_pics/picsforum21/me210ul6.jpg)
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The 410 was going to be renamed the 210E I believe (before renaming it to avoid a stigma), so yes same as the 210.
Captain's Log, Supplemental:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/%3CFA%3EJaws/a1weaponsangles.jpg
It's rather large so I'll link to it instead of embedding. 40 degrees out each side, 47 degrees down, and 80 degrees up.
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Ditto on the "Tojo". We had the IIc model in FA with 4x 20mm cannons until it was neutered for gameplay reasons and we ended up with mgs. We also had the Ki44 with the 37mm, but it was (obviously) slower and less maneuverable. If I recall, the Ki-44IIc was one of Bruv's (or Takeshis_Castle, IIRC... lol) specialties back in the day.
Ki-44 never had 20mms. Ki-44-I was armed with two 7.7mm guns and two 12.7mm guns, Ki-44-II was armed with four 12.7mm guns, or in a limited number of cases two 12.7mm guns and two 40mm recoilless rifles. Ki-44-III would have had four 20mm cannons, but I am unaware of that aircraft actually being produced.
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Be careful Karnak... that's a good way to pick up ankle humpers... You know, setting folks straight, and all.
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Ki-44 never had 20mms. Ki-44-I was armed with two 7.7mm guns and two 12.7mm guns, Ki-44-II was armed with four 12.7mm guns, or in a limited number of cases two 12.7mm guns and two 40mm recoilless rifles. Ki-44-III would have had four 20mm cannons, but I am unaware of that aircraft actually being produced.
I think they were catering for the large JP community with the 20mm's that hit like bricks. After a campaign of whinage they took them off and replaced with the four 12.7mms and made it a little more agile.
I remember that name simon, If I was bored I would use it in arcade FFA.
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voting Yak in hopes that we get the 9U and 9T remodeled with it. :pray
Yup.
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allright!
which one now?
...
or
ME 410
Armament
Guns:
2 × 7.92 mm (.312 in) MG 17 machine guns with 1,000 rpg, firing forward
4 × 20 mm MG 151/20 cannons with 350 rpg, firing forward
2 × 13 mm (.51 in) MG 131 machine guns with 500 rpg, each firing rearward from FDSL 131/1B remote-operated turret, one per side
Bombs: up to 1,000 kg (2,204 lb) of disposable stores
That's not nearly everything it used. Dont have time to write it up..
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Yeah. He forgot to mention that the 410 could also be equipped with a 50mm gun, depending on which version we get. :D
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The 410 had an insane amount of factory and field modifications. It will be quite a challenge for HiTech and Co. to sort them all out.
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The 410 had an insane amount of factory and field modifications. It will be quite a challenge for HiTech and Co. to sort them all out.
I guess this just means we got lots of planes with big black crosses on the sides! :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:
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Outboard of the engines the 410 could carry drop tanks (not so common, mostly long-range escorts up north, escorting Condors and such) or twin WGR21 pods like the 110G has.
Along the belly it could mount 4 external racks for 4x 50kg bombs, left and right of the bomb bay. It could alternatively mount a 2x 20mm gunpod similar to those found on some FW190As, like the 110G gunpod but more curvy.
In the bomb bay it could mount a number of things....
8x 50kg bombs
1x or 2x 250kg
1x or 2x 500kg
1x or 2x 1000kg (special small-casings to fit in internal bay and let the doors close) more commonly just 1
2x20mm internal gunpod
2x30mm Mk103 gunpod
4x20mm internal gunpod
1xBK50 50mm cannon internal gunpod
They could and were used in combination, so you would see the 2x20mm internal gunpod mounted with the 2x20mm gunpod externally, adding 4 extra guns.
There were a number of options for the basic loadout as well.
the A had 2x20mm and 2x 7mm (plus tail guns)
The B had 2x20mm and 2x 13mm (plus tail guns)
Some removed the MGs when mounting big guns packs like the BK5, so there's the option of cannons-only defaults
Some rarer still (but still an option) removed the tail guns themselves along with the rear gunner to save weight -- not common but still an option.
You can see the dizzying possibilities.
[edit: that's all off the top of my head. Forgive any mistakes, it's just a primer of sorts]
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And those aren't even half of them. Loadout options in addition to standard armament:
ME-410-A.Empty
ME-410-A.U2 A-1/U2: 2xMG151/20
ME-410-A.8x50SC 8x SC 50
ME-410-A.1x250SC 1x SC 250
ME-410-A.2x250SC 2x SC 250
ME-410-A.1x500SC 1x SC 500
ME-410-A.2x500SC 2x SC 500
ME-410-A.1x250AB 1x AB 250
ME-410-A.2x250AB 2x AB 250
ME-410-A.1x500AB 1x AB 500
ME-410-A.2x500AB 2x AB 500
ME-410-A.12x50SC 8x SC 50 + 4x SC 50
ME-410-A.2X250SC4x50SC 2x SC 250 + 4x SC 50
ME-410-A.1X500SC4x50SC 1x SC 500 + 4x SC 50
ME-410-A.A2 A-2 Default
ME-410-A.A2U4 A-2/U4: 1x BK5
ME-410-B.Empty
ME-410-B.U2 U2: 2xMG151/20 (B-2)
ME-410-B.U4 U4: 1xBK5
ME-410-B.R2 R2: 2xMK108
ME-410-B.R3 R3: 2xMK103
ME-410-B.R4 R4: 2xMG151 Gunpod
ME-410-B.R5 R5: 4xMG151
ME-410-B.R4U2 U2R4: 2xMG151+2xMG151 Gunpod
ME-410-B.U4R4 U4R4: 1xBK5+2xMG151 Gunpod
ME-410-B.R2R4 R2R4: 2xMK108+2xMG151 Gunpod
ME-410-B.R3R4 R3R4: 2xMK103+2xMG151 Gunpod
ME-410-B.R4R5 R4R5: 2xMG151Gunpod+4xMG151
ME-410-B.M5 M5: 6x Wfr.Gr.21
ME-410-B.U2M5 U2M5: 2xMG151+6xWfr.Gr.21
ME-410-B.U4M5 U4M5: 1xBK5+6xWfr.Gr.21
ME-410-B.R2M5 R2M5: 2xMK108+6xWfr.Gr.21
ME-410-B.R3M5 R3M5: 2xMK103+6xWfr.Gr.21
ME-410-B.R5M5 R5M5: 4xMG151+6xWfr.Gr.21
ME-410-B.U2R4M5 U2R4M5: 2x2MG151+6xWfr.Gr.21
ME-410-B.U4R4M5 U4R4M5: 1xBK5+2xMG151+WGr.
ME-410-B.R2R4M5 R2R4M5: 2xMK108+2xMG151+WGr.
ME-410-B.R3R4M5 R3R4M5: 2xMK103+2xMG151+WGr.
ME-410-B.R34x50SC R3: 2xMK103+4xSC 50
ME-410-B.8x50SC 8x SC 50
ME-410-B.1x250SC 1x SC 250
ME-410-B.2x250SC 2x SC 250
ME-410-B.1x500SC 1x SC 500
ME-410-B.2x500SC 2x SC 500
ME-410-B.1x250AB 1x AB 250
ME-410-B.2x250AB 2x AB 250
ME-410-B.1x500AB 1x AB 500
ME-410-B.2x500AB 2x AB 500
ME-410-B.12x50SC 8x SC 50 + 4x SC 50
ME-410-B.2X250SC4x50SC 2x SC 250 + 4x SC 50
ME-410-B.1X500SC4x50SC 1x SC 500 + 4x SC 50
ME-410-B.TORPEDO B5 Standard: 1x Torpedo
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What's the source for that list?
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It's the loadout options from Il2FB.
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So you don't have a source. Loadouts like the MK 108 and torpedo sound like the same fantasy loadouts that half the 410 books repeat without any real evidence. The RLM meeting notes never mention the 108 as being fielded. Only considered - some reports of field crews bootstrapping em into the bomb bay. The nearest hard evidence for 108 loadout comes from Messerschmitt documents a few months before the 410 is cancelled, with the 108 package given as "in development".
Also the naming scheme is probably wrong. Do I sound anal about this? I am but it's because this thing is a mess. IIRC the naming system for the 410 is different from the one used e.g. for the 190. Meaning you have these /Rx things that don't stand for what you'd expect if you just went based on what it meant for other planes.
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Like I said it's going to be quite the challenge for HiTech and Co. to sort it all out. Even if you remove half of the options available in Il2FB it's still a lot.
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There seems to be as much diversity with various 410 configurations as there is with 109 and 190 models. When the 410B wins ( :rock) we will have three or four different gun package options. A couple options in the nose and two or three options in the gun/bomb bay. For the gun/bomb bay I see a 4x20mm package; 2x30mm package; or 1x50mm. On the wings you get options for the 210mm rockets or 50kg bombs.
Pretty simple.
Boo
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Like I mentioned in another post the IL2 mod is totally subjective. When pointed out that their loadouts were inaccurate, the response was "so? It's fun" or something along those lines.
Also, it may LOOK like there's a lot more, but this is due to the ubisoft single-dropbox loadout menu. You see a different combo for 50kg, for guns, and for both 50kg and guns.
You'll note a lot of what you listed is a combination of stuff I outlined in my previous post (scroll up!).
I also don't hold much credibility in their naming conventions. I think they're applying a standard that's an after-the-fact designation. A standard taken from inaccurate source or just from bad info.
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I bet HTC is hoping for the Yak3 - 10 minutes then go drink a beer over the Me410 - hundreds of hours and headaches - maybe don't see your family for a couple of months.
Some of those loadout options look scary - 6 A2A rockets plus 2 x Mk103s or 6 rockets plus 4 x MG151s - in addition to the standard armament of a pair of MG151s and a pair of MGs firing forwards and a pair of MGs firing backwards. That's before we even get to the 50mm frickin' cannon. I bet weight is a huge issue. A loaded up Me410 will probably fly like a battleship with wings.
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More like a heavy 110G. You know how you load it up with full fuel, DTs, ords, etc, and it's sluggish? I'd expect the same difference.
Also, as mentioned the Ubisoft listings are not to be read at face value. They didn't carry 6x WGR21s, just 4.
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I think the reverse is true in that the battles over Eastern Europe were much more about TAS and did not involve 1,000+ birds engaging in epic battles to save or destroy a city. Maybe we should have more TAS scenarios involving tanks and close air support, which would accurately reflect the airwar on the Eastern Front, but until then the Me-410 takes Aces High further.
Just my opinion.
Boo
Actually the greatest aerial battles in history were fought over the eastern front. While "1000 bomber" raids were rare in the west, battles involving thousands of aircraft were almost commonplace in the east. During the battle of Kursk (5 to 20 July 1943) the Luftwaffe and VVS deployed more than 5000 aircraft. All serviceable aircraft on both sides flew 3-4 sorties per day. The Luftwaffe committed 84% of their total strength to the battle leaving only 16% to defend the rest of the Reich. The Soviets lost more than 2000 aircraft in one month. Luftwaffe losses were almost 700 aircraft destroyed. In one month.
At almost the same time in the west on August 17 the Mighty Eight launched the first big raid on Schweinfurt and Regensburg involving more than 800 allied aircraft and about 400 German. Losses amounted to 65 allied aircraft lost with about as many write-offs. German casualties were less than 30 fighters. The USAAF tried it again on October 14 with much the same result and as a consequence suspended raids against Germany for five months.
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Yep -- 80% or so of the combat (measured by number of combatants, number of casualties, number of tanks, number of aircraft, number of guns, etc.) in Europe was between the Germans and the Soviets.
I'd love to have more Eastern Front scenarios. We had one late-war (Red Storm/Krupp Steel) that was a blast, but it would be good to have Stalingrad and more early-mid-war conflicts on the Eastern Front.
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I guess this just means we got lots of planes with big black crosses on the sides! :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:
Bite your tounge, the 190A-8 and 109G-10 fans will get their pitchforks and torches out.
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(http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/6663/ckpme410pit.jpg)
(http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/5455/extme410nose.jpg)
This glass section opened inward in sync with the bomb bay doors.
(http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/8281/ckplowglassoutside.jpg)
Those should be the rudder pedals seen just over the aft end of the glass floor section.
(http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/3993/ckpglassfloor.jpg)
(http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/7006/ckpme410detail.jpg)
(http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/1047/ckpphotome410gunmount.jpg)
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In the air
(http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/3563/extme410b2u2zg76archive.jpg)
(http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/1746/his210bo7.jpg)
(http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/6967/extbundesarchivbild101i.jpg)
(http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/313/extme410kg51.jpg)
(http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/1949/hisme410b1k.jpg)
Ja, vee fill sho zem amerikans! Witt our tail guns!
(http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/208/hisme410b6s.jpg)
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That tail gun system looks unwieldy as hell.
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In the shop
(http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/7779/extme410bk51k.jpg)
(http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/6928/armme410b2u1.jpg)
Funky paint scheme in the back
(http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/3144/extme410b160pp.jpg)
Taking a break
(http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/9686/extme4102sagr1262.jpg)
Stretching out
(http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/3321/his410zg26bk51.jpg)
(http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/4484/extme410b3s1k.jpg)
(http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/6691/extme410b247.jpg)
(http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/462/extme410a111s.jpg)
Posing as trophy for a puny human
(http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/5031/extme410colour.jpg)
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Most known single seater pic - "Yellow 7"
(http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/5562/armme410a1u3.jpg)
With the flock
(http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/8005/p145acc121k.jpg)
7 again
(http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/8497/armwn10117b1k.jpg)
Regular
(http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/9600/armme410normalcabinw600.jpg)
Streamlined
(http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/2918/armme410idealcabinw600x.jpg)
In context
(http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/4564/extme410b1tfeq.jpg)
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Loading up
(http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/4099/armbundesarchivbild101i.jpg)
50 kg's
(http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/9879/bayme210a1hornisseweapo.jpg)
"Is that a BK5 in your pants"
(http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/9079/armbk5.jpg)
Hungarian crews made use of the 15cm mortar rockets
(http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/9940/armme210.jpg)
Me 410 crews preferred the 21cm's
(http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/2773/armwgr21.jpg)
Some eggheads figured this would work
(http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/2355/armme41029f.jpg)
(http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/4126/armme410b140s.jpg)
And it did after hairy trials (there's a pic out there of the nose fairing after test fire - it's ripped apart), but no records of results in the field.
Underbelly twin MG151 pod, like on the AH Me 110G
(http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/7341/armme410r4.jpg)
A pair of MK 103s in the bay and a blind pilot aid on the windscreen
(http://img573.imageshack.us/img573/3086/armme41018yu.jpg)
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Some eggheads figured this would work
(http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/2355/armme41029f.jpg)
(http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/4126/armme410b140s.jpg)
And it did after hairy trials (there's a pic out there of the nose fairing after test fire - it's ripped apart), but no records of results in the field.
AFAIK it didn't work as was never fielded as per your "ripped apart".
What have you found that it worked?
wrongway
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A reliable source. It makes no difference either way as there's no record other than it passing tests and being ready for fielding. Wouldn't surprise me that it wasn't used much if at all. Some sources say the rear guns were so hard to aim they were sometimes ignored. Then again you have some pilots saying they couldnt stand not having rear guns as in the single seaters; and then again you have one of the lead pilots being fine with the single seater and probably claiming victories in it, and dying in it after going out of his way to pick a fight with P-38s. Even the best literature is dodgy - you have Stocker/Petrick repeatedly calling the Flak 18 gun a "30mm"; in the back of the book you have an eulogy of the author that includes "the author has been researching the Me 410 for 20 years".
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I wonder if we will get the lightened GM-1 (NOS) equipped single-seat version as an option. They were made specifically for high-altitude buff hunting, Mosquito hunting and photo-reconnaissance. These boosted aircraft were capable of remarkable performance, flying as high as 37,000 ft. and extremely fast, as attested to by the frustration of Allied pilots who tried to intercept them. For example, on 24 July 1944 Spitfires of No. 92 Squadron chased an Me 410, silver-painted and streaming black smoke from its exhausts, from Corsica to just off Nice. They reckoned it "the fastest encountered in this theater", with a speed of more than 400mph.
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Where is that from?
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VOTED 410 as i think yak 3 will come with yak 3d update
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Where is that from?
http://books.stonebooks.com/book/1014608/
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VOTED 410 as i think yak 3 will come with yak 3d update
maybe the 3d update will come with the yak3.
yak3
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http://books.stonebooks.com/book/1014608/
Which page is it from?
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I'm sorry, I remembered wrong. It's from this book:
http://www.amazon.com/Ghost-Bombers-Moonlight-Luftwaffe-Operations/dp/1903223156
I'm not going to read through all 200 pages to find it again (I have a quote collection doc I use). However, the author also mention that intercept attempt in his online collection of corrections and addendum. He claims his source is mostly the National Archives in London.
http://www.ghostbombers.com/dragoon/before-1.html
I think it may actually be there I first saw it before buying the book.
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ME 410
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Too many German planes in this game, not enough commie ones :old:
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Too many German planes in this game, not enough commie ones :old:
What do you mean? We have the I-16, La-5, La-7, Yak-9, P-39, A-20, Hurricane, and Spitfire! ;)
Actually, I'd love to see the Yak-1, LaGG-3, and Pe-2 added -- those are some of the top planes on my list of preferences.
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ME 410
I went ahead and fixed that for chu. :bolt:
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What do you mean? We have the I-16, La-5, La-7, Yak-9, P-39, A-20, Hurricane, and Spitfire! ;)
Actually, I'd love to see the Yak-1, LaGG-3, and Pe-2 added -- those are some of the top planes on my list of preferences.
P39, A20, Hurricane and spitfire are not russian planes. they were either american/british planes given to the USSR by the lend-lease act. so what we really have for commie planes are the I16-La5FN/La7 and the Yak 9-T/U
EDIT: forgot the IL-2 :o
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P39, A20, Hurricane and spitfire are not russian planes. they were either american/british planes given to the USSR by the lend-lease act. so what we really have for commie planes are the I16-La5FN/La7 and the Yak 9-T/U
And IL-2
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P39, A20, Hurricane and spitfire are not russian planes. they were either american/british planes given to the USSR by the lend-lease act.
True, that was my small attempt at humor. However, because the Soviets did use a fair number of those aircraft (usage numbers below), my post was partly in jest and partly not.
Yak-9, 16769
La-5, 9920
I-16, 9004
Yak-1, 8720
Yak-7, 6339
LaGG-3, 6258
La-7, 5753
P-39, 5007 (from US)
Yak-3, 4848
MiG-3, 3120
Hurricane, 2952 (from UK)
P-63, 2421 (from US)
Spitfire, 1331 (from UK)
Il-2, 29937
Pe-2, 11427
SB-2, 6656
Il-4, 5256
A-20, 2700 (from US)
Tu-2, 2527
DB-3, 1528
EDIT: forgot the IL-2 :o
Egads. That is a rather larger oversight on my part. :o
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AFAIK it didn't work as was never fielded as per your "ripped apart".
What have you found that it worked?
wrongway
It doesn't matter (won't be in AH hangar), but going thru notes (notes of notes, so no page #), Mankau also says it passed trials.
In the planning point on attack tactics against bomber formations it is mentioned that whole salvos can be fired from the launcher into the formation; the seven-barreled weapon is now available.