Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: MachFly on November 10, 2011, 12:14:14 AM

Title: Prop...
Post by: MachFly on November 10, 2011, 12:14:14 AM
(http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/2673/43551791.jpg)
Title: Re: Prop...
Post by: eagl on November 10, 2011, 12:21:44 AM
Doesn't it get really warm when the fan stops like that?
Title: Re: Prop...
Post by: Devil 505 on November 10, 2011, 12:31:57 AM
Doesn't it get really warm when the fan stops like that?
Nah, just no electricity.
Title: Re: Prop...
Post by: Tupac on November 10, 2011, 01:16:52 AM
Why is it not feathered?
Title: Re: Prop...
Post by: MachFly on November 10, 2011, 01:21:44 AM
Why is it not feathered?

It was, this picture was taken right before re-start.


Feathered:
(http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/8283/30676996.jpg)
Title: Re: Prop...
Post by: MachFly on November 10, 2011, 01:22:22 AM
Doesn't it get really warm when the fan stops like that?

I LOL'ed


Nah, just no electricity.

What do you mean?
Title: Re: Prop...
Post by: Pigslilspaz on November 10, 2011, 03:00:20 AM


What do you mean?

Well aren't those windmill generators?
Title: Re: Prop...
Post by: caldera on November 10, 2011, 05:55:05 AM
Well aren't those windmill generators?

Windmills aren't generated.  They are built by people with wooden shoes.
Title: Re: Prop...
Post by: Maverick on November 10, 2011, 12:05:52 PM
Doesn't it get really warm when the fan stops like that?

Probably, but the quiet gets real frickin loud too.  :O
 :D
Title: Re: Prop...
Post by: curry1 on November 10, 2011, 12:24:38 PM
Windmills aren't generated.  They are built by people with wooden shoes.

They also have nice coffee shops  :devil.
Title: Re: Prop...
Post by: MachFly on November 10, 2011, 12:37:48 PM
Probably, but the quiet gets real frickin loud too.  :O
 :D

Not really, you just loose the stereo effect.
Title: Re: Prop...
Post by: ebfd11 on November 10, 2011, 02:40:33 PM
I bet he was looking for the "e" key to start that engine.LOL
Title: Re: Prop...
Post by: MachFly on November 10, 2011, 02:46:08 PM
I bet he was looking for the "e" key to start that engine.LOL

It's actually almost as simple as that, thanks to all the computers.
Title: Re: Prop...
Post by: ebfd11 on November 10, 2011, 03:39:29 PM
I just wish i could do something like that.. I would love to take a flight and take the controls .LOL
Title: Re: Prop...
Post by: allaire on November 10, 2011, 03:47:54 PM
Probably, but the quiet gets real frickin loud too.  :O
 :D
Similar to the old joke about jesus nuts on a huey.
Title: Re: Prop...
Post by: Dago on November 10, 2011, 06:10:50 PM
A familiar sight, and I know a recip shakes like wild when you are cranking to restart inflight.   :D
Title: Re: Prop...
Post by: MachFly on November 10, 2011, 06:35:17 PM
A familiar sight, and I know a recip shakes like wild when you are cranking to restart inflight.   :D

It's a lot easier on the 42, all I got to do is turn the master switch on and engage the starter, computer does the rest. Engines start faster than on the car.
Title: Re: Prop...
Post by: 2ADoc on November 10, 2011, 06:50:21 PM
The age old question,"What are propellers for?"
The age old answer," to keep the pilot cool, stop one and watch him sweat."
Title: Re: Prop...
Post by: colmbo on November 10, 2011, 08:07:31 PM
It's a lot easier on the 42, all I got to do is turn the master switch on and engage the starter, computer does the rest. Engines start faster than on the car.

Where is the fun in that?

Starting the B-24:  Left seater cracks the throttle.  Right seater engages starter with one finger, when the 6th blade goes by right seater (using a second finger) starts the primer.  At the 9th blade right seater (with the right hand) turns the magneto switch to both. On the 12th blade the engine will start (you'll know it started cuz there be a bunch of barking, snorting and farting accompanied by lots of smoke) -- right seater releases starter and primer and watches manifold pressure -- if it starts to rise you "tickle" the primer.  When the engine catches the left seater moves the mixture control to Auto Rich and adjusts throttle as needed.  If the left seater brain farts the mixture the right seater can keep it running by "tickling" the primer while giving his (or her) best "you're a handsomehunk look" to the left seater.

One person can start it...you just have to think it thru.
Title: Re: Prop...
Post by: MachFly on November 10, 2011, 08:17:09 PM
Where is the fun in that?

Starting the B-24:  Left seater cracks the throttle.  Right seater engages starter with one finger, when the 6th blade goes by right seater (using a second finger) starts the primer.  At the 9th blade right seater (with the right hand) turns the magneto switch to both. On the 12th blade the engine will start (you'll know it started cuz there be a bunch of barking, snorting and farting accompanied by lots of smoke) -- right seater releases starter and primer and watches manifold pressure -- if it starts to rise you "tickle" the primer.  When the engine catches the left seater moves the mixture control to Auto Rich and adjusts throttle as needed.  If the left seater brain farts the mixture the right seater can keep it running by "tickling" the primer while giving his (or her) best "you're a handsomehunk look" to the left seater.

One person can start it...you just have to think it thru.

That's a bit too much.

As much as I like manual stuff the computers significantly make the aircraft operation easier so you pay more attention to what's going on outside. See when your alone & flying an approach with turns around mountains, at night, with 1nm visibility, and 30kts (ground) winds you really don't want to be bothered with technical aircraft operations.

I'm sure sometime when you flew the B-24 you though "man this is a pain in the @*$".
Title: Re: Prop...
Post by: Golfer on November 10, 2011, 09:18:36 PM
What happens Machfly when you find yourself in an airplane that will require you to actually pilot it versus simply steer it around the sky?

Or are you just not going to apply for those jobs?

I can't think if much more personally rewarding as an aviator than some of the flying colmbo has done and would welcome the challenge. The way modern airplanes are designed the level of knowledge a pilot had in their aircraft which was compulsory in older airframes isn't even close in today's. The closest I may realistically get is (partial?) ownership of a T6 which doesn't require the same attention as a 17 or 24.

About 2 years ago after a couple thousand hours in current production transport jets I was reminded of that when I got rechecked in a round engined tailwheel airplane. Perishable skills indeed.
Title: Re: Prop...
Post by: MachFly on November 10, 2011, 10:23:08 PM
What happens Machfly when you find yourself in an airplane that will require you to actually pilot it versus simply steer it around the sky?

Or are you just not going to apply for those jobs?

I can't think if much more personally rewarding as an aviator than some of the flying colmbo has done and would welcome the challenge. The way modern airplanes are designed the level of knowledge a pilot had in their aircraft which was compulsory in older airframes isn't even close in today's. The closest I may realistically get is (partial?) ownership of a T6 which doesn't require the same attention as a 17 or 24.

About 2 years ago after a couple thousand hours in current production transport jets I was reminded of that when I got rechecked in a round engined tailwheel airplane. Perishable skills indeed.

It's not like the only airplane I even flown is the 42 and I can't do anything without a computer. I flown whole bunch different planes before the this so I'm sure it wont be a problem.
Title: Re: Prop...
Post by: Golfer on November 10, 2011, 10:41:47 PM
Was it 10 or was it "a whole bunch?"

Most of a bunch? Half a bunch? Three quarters of a bunch?

I think you missed what I was getting at. It has nothing to do with what you have or haven't flown but rather the perception of being bothered with flying the airplane so much it would take away from, um, flying the airplane. Then how that would be for you if you found yourself tasked to fly an airplane that required you to, you know, fly it.

You'll find (at least you better) that you won't earn your money as a professional pilot when things are working as designed. You'll earn it when things break, the weather sucks and things break and the weather sucks, things break and you're fighting fatigue.

Nothing really breaks on nice days either.
Title: Re: Prop...
Post by: colmbo on November 10, 2011, 10:54:49 PM


I'm sure sometime when you flew the B-24 you though "man this is a pain in the @*$".

Are you serious?  Heck no, I was tickled to be there.
Title: Re: Prop...
Post by: colmbo on November 10, 2011, 10:57:01 PM
As much as I like manual stuff the computers significantly make the aircraft operation easier so you pay more attention to what's going on outside. See when your alone & flying an approach with turns around mountains, at night, with 1nm visibility, and 30kts (ground) winds you really don't want to be bothered with technical aircraft operations.

How the heck you think things got done before we had fly themself airplanes?
Title: Re: Prop...
Post by: colmbo on November 10, 2011, 11:00:33 PM

 reminded of that when I got rechecked in a round engined tailwheel airplane. Perishable skills indeed.

T-6?  I've only got a couple hours in one but man on man...I remember on landing feeling like it was wanting to dart off this way or that.  Far cry from the Citabria I got the tail-wheel check in.  :D
Title: Re: Prop...
Post by: MachFly on November 10, 2011, 11:01:59 PM
I think you missed what I was getting at. It has nothing to do with what you have or haven't flown but rather the perception of being bothered with flying the airplane so much it would take away from, um, flying the airplane. Then how that would be for you if you found yourself tasked to fly an airplane that required you to, you know, fly it.

I wont forger the basics to flying a basic airplane, the computers on the 42 help with it's complex systems which most other GA aircraft don't have. If I will forget something about flying a basic aircraft than I wont fly it until I'll be proficient to fly it again. I don't need to stay proficient in an airplane that I don't fly, if I will have to fly it I'll take a lesson or two in it and be proficient again.


About 2 years ago after a couple thousand hours in current production transport jets I was reminded of that when I got rechecked in a round engined tailwheel airplane. Perishable skills indeed.

So now you fly that taildagger just to stay proficient in it? If you enjoy it I understand, but flying something just for the sake of being proficient is a waist of time & money.
Title: Re: Prop...
Post by: colmbo on November 10, 2011, 11:02:16 PM

As much as I like manual stuff the computers significantly make the aircraft operation easier so you pay more attention to what's going on outside. See when your alone & flying an approach with turns around mountains, at night, with 1nm visibility, and 30kts (ground) winds you really don't want to be bothered with technical aircraft operations.

I just have to keep coming back to this.  You dang sure better be "bothered with technical aircraft operations" or it's going to jump up and kill you.  D E A D.
Title: Re: Prop...
Post by: MachFly on November 10, 2011, 11:05:05 PM
I just have to keep coming back to this.  You dang sure better be "bothered with technical aircraft operations" or it's going to jump up and kill you.  D E A D.

Don't get me wrong, I don't ignore it. It's just helps you reduce the workload, nothing wrong with that.
Title: Re: Prop...
Post by: MachFly on November 10, 2011, 11:08:01 PM
Are you serious?  Heck no, I was tickled to be there.

I would have loved to be there as well. I'm saying that if you can reduce the workload why not do it?
On a B-24 you can't, because you'll ruin a classic airplane, but there is no reason not to do it on something modern.
Title: Re: Prop...
Post by: Golfer on November 10, 2011, 11:18:17 PM
I wont forger the basics to flying a basic airplane, the computers on the 42 help with it's complex systems which most other GA aircraft don't have. If I will forget something about flying a basic aircraft than I wont fly it until I'll be proficient to fly it again. I don't need to stay proficient in an airplane that I don't fly, if I will have to fly it I'll take a lesson or two in it and be proficient again.


So now you fly that taildagger just to stay proficient in it? If you enjoy it I understand, but flying something just for the sake of being proficient is a waist of time & money.

Don't take this as being snooty but you haven't flown anything with a complex system. I could type a much more thoughtful response but it's late, I'm on my phone and I'm off to bed.

Your last few sentences couldn't be more wrong, either.  You're really showing a significant lack of understanding and some pretty hazardous attitudes that should be given more consideration.
Title: Re: Prop...
Post by: EskimoJoe on November 10, 2011, 11:21:31 PM
All I see is a pilot who enjoys flying for flying, a pilot who is full of himself and 'fly it right or don't fly at all!', and a pilot who has an incredible amount of experience and experiences, all of which are in a pointless internet argument for no good reason.

I give up.

I don't want to be a pilot anymore.
Title: Re: Prop...
Post by: Golfer on November 10, 2011, 11:26:43 PM
I think you'll find the common thread is we all like what we do. It beats having a real job and speaking for myself my happy little world is a pretty darn good one.

Simple explanation:

Machfly has a few wayward thoughts and I'm not known for sugar coating my thoughts

If you or anyone else really truly wants to fly because you love it, you won't let anyone's opinion stop you.
Title: Re: Prop...
Post by: MachFly on November 10, 2011, 11:50:46 PM
Don't take this as being snooty but you haven't flown anything with a complex system. I could type a much more thoughtful response but it's late, I'm on my phone and I'm off to bed.

Your last few sentences couldn't be more wrong, either.  You're really showing a significant lack of understanding and some pretty hazardous attitudes that should be given more consideration.

I don't know what you want me to tell you.
Title: Re: Prop...
Post by: Tupac on November 11, 2011, 12:26:39 AM
If you or anyone else really truly wants to fly because you love it, you won't let anyone's opinion stop you.

 :)
Title: Re: Prop...
Post by: eagl on November 11, 2011, 08:27:08 AM
I don't want to be a pilot anymore.

*singing*
I don't want to join the Air Force
I don't want to go to war
I'd rather hang around Piccadily Underground
Living on the earnings of a high class lady
I don't want to take it up the !@#%^&*
I don't want my body shot away
I'd rather be in England
In Merry f**%ing England
And fornicate my f*&%ing life away!

There's more but since we weren't allowed to sing it at the con (10 yrs ago yikes) I don't think Skuzzy wants it here either  :devil
Title: Re: Prop...
Post by: BERN1 on November 11, 2011, 08:40:11 AM
man to be either one of you guys  :x  If I had a pilots license I would fly anything and everything I could get checked out in.
 :airplane:
Title: Re: Prop...
Post by: Maverick on November 11, 2011, 09:52:34 AM
I don't know what you want me to tell you.

Perhaps it's a case of deciding to let people think you a fool rather than open your mouth and remove all doubt.

Title: Re: Prop...
Post by: colmbo on November 11, 2011, 11:18:01 AM
All I see is a pilot who enjoys flying for flying, a pilot who is full of himself and 'fly it right or don't fly at all!', and a pilot who has an incredible amount of experience and experiences, all of which are in a pointless internet argument for no good reason.

Eskimo Joe,

I have personally removed the mangled body of a friend from aircraft wreckage.  I have watched people die in an aircraft crash.  I have known several people who have died in aircraft crashes.

This isn't a pointless argument.

Perhaps Golfer and I just want to see MachFly around for a while.
Title: Re: Prop...
Post by: Golfer on November 11, 2011, 11:34:41 AM
Machfly,

I was just in recurrent with the widow of a guy killed in a "basic GA airplane" as you've described. He was a Designated Examiner, had thousands of hours in type and wasn't doing anything overly risky when he ended up dead.

You'll be fine though, right?
Title: Re: Prop...
Post by: Tupac on November 11, 2011, 11:37:50 AM
How did he crash?
Title: Re: Prop...
Post by: Golfer on November 11, 2011, 11:51:16 AM
Into someone's living room.

Over 20,000 hours while doing a flight review with a 3,000 hour pilot.  I'm the middle of the day. In clear skies.
Title: Re: Prop...
Post by: Tupac on November 11, 2011, 12:01:57 PM
Into someone's living room.

Over 20,000 hours while doing a flight review with a 3,000 hour pilot.  I'm the middle of the day. In clear skies.

Wow that's awful. Did they have an engine failure?
Title: Re: Prop...
Post by: Golfer on November 11, 2011, 12:08:17 PM
Does it matter?  There were two.
Title: Re: Prop...
Post by: MachFly on November 11, 2011, 09:25:02 PM
Machfly,

I was just in recurrent with the widow of a guy killed in a "basic GA airplane" as you've described. He was a Designated Examiner, had thousands of hours in type and wasn't doing anything overly risky when he ended up dead.

You'll be fine though, right?

no one ever said it was safe

and what does this have to do with anything?
Title: Re: Prop...
Post by: MachFly on November 11, 2011, 09:52:08 PM
Does it matter?  There were two.

Yes it does. Tupac asked so he can learn, not so you can shut him up by saying that it does not matter.
I'm sorry about your friend, but if your going to bring this up on a public forum people will ask what happened, if you want to avoid those questions don't post such things.
Title: Re: Prop...
Post by: Golfer on November 11, 2011, 09:58:07 PM
no one ever said it was safe

Well if you can't see the forest through the trees you'll just have to hit your head on one to see for yourself. Hope it doesn't hurt you too bad when you do.

Flying is a perishable skill. That's a fact and maintaining proficiency is the most fundamental aspect of honing a perishable skill. Someday when you fly with people who aren't, or probably more accurately, have enough experience to recognize someone who isn't you'll understand.  It's one of those things that depending on your point of view a lack of proficiency can be either invisible or obvious. Nobody is above it and everyone is subject to it.

Where do you see your career going anyway?  What's your dream job?
Title: Re: Prop...
Post by: Golfer on November 11, 2011, 10:12:26 PM
Yes it does. Tupac asked so he can learn, not so you can shut him up by saying that it does not matter.
I'm sorry about your friend, but if your going to bring this up on a public forum people will ask what happened, if you want to avoid those questions don't post such things.

I didn't shut him up. Now you're being obtuse.

For this example why they crashed isn't as important as the fact they were killed. Over 25,000 flight hours between two pilots died in a twin with 300hp motors on a clear and a million day, not during takeoff or landing.

That's two experienced pilots in an airplane very capable of handling an engine failure in the safest phase of flight. Dead.

But hey, you'll be fine.
Title: Re: Prop...
Post by: MachFly on November 11, 2011, 11:39:32 PM


Flying is a perishable skill. That's a fact and maintaining proficiency is the most fundamental aspect of honing a perishable skill. Someday when you fly with people who aren't, or probably more accurately, have enough experience to recognize someone who isn't you'll understand.  It's one of those things that depending on your point of view a lack of proficiency can be either invisible or obvious. Nobody is above it and everyone is subject to it.

I agree. But you were talking about maintaining proficiency in a small airplane, the two are not the same. For example you can have great stick and rudder skills but have no idea how to lean the mixture.
Title: Re: Prop...
Post by: Golfer on November 11, 2011, 11:44:56 PM
I agree. But you were talking about maintaining proficiency in a small airplane, the two are not the same. For example you can have great stick and rudder skills but have no idea how to lean the mixture.

And here's where I check out.  Godspeed Machfly.
Title: Re: Prop...
Post by: MachFly on November 11, 2011, 11:49:26 PM
I didn't shut him up. Now you're being obtuse.

For this example why they crashed isn't as important as the fact they were killed. Over 25,000 flight hours between two pilots died in a twin with 300hp motors on a clear and a million day, not during takeoff or landing.

That's two experienced pilots in an airplane very capable of handling an engine failure in the safest phase of flight. Dead.

But hey, you'll be fine.

Yes it is important, you won't live long enough to learn only from your own mistakes.

The number of hours, the type of engines, and the number of engines does not guarantee your safety, its the way you fly that will make the final diferents whether you survive or not.
Title: Re: Prop...
Post by: MachFly on November 11, 2011, 11:50:16 PM
And here's where I check out.  Godspeed Machfly.

Okay
Title: Re: Prop...
Post by: Golfer on November 12, 2011, 12:03:36 AM
Yes it is important, you won't live long enough to learn only from your own mistakes.

The number of hours, the type of engines, and the number of engines does not guarantee your safety, its the way you fly that will make the final diferents whether you survive or not.

Ugh.

Machfly I see now I've made some incorrect assumptions which means I'm not playing on a level field. So as not to sound even more condescending I'm going to cut myself off until I figure out something a little more tactful.
Title: Re: Prop...
Post by: icepac on November 12, 2011, 08:52:28 AM
I wonder if more drivers have died in ford mustangs in the past year than all pilots of airplanes worldwide?
Title: Re: Prop...
Post by: 2ADoc on November 12, 2011, 10:59:13 AM
More people get killed by donkeys every year than get killed in GA.

I have had one accident, in over 22 years of flying.  I had a passenger, I was the only one that got hurt, when I knocked myself out with the pitot tube, exiting the aircraft at a rapid pace. 
  In over 50 years of flying my dad has had 2 accidents, both in experimental aircraft.  Flying is the safest mode of travel there is.
Title: Re: Prop...
Post by: colmbo on November 12, 2011, 12:11:43 PM
More people get killed by donkeys every year than get killed in GA.

Prove it.

Quote
  In over 50 years of flying my dad has had 2 accidents, both in experimental aircraft.  Flying is the safest mode of travel there is.


No it isn't, by far.
Title: Re: Prop...
Post by: 2ADoc on November 12, 2011, 12:20:48 PM
It was a stat that came out a few years ago, colmbo. I am not here to argue with anyone but I guess that someone lit your tampon fuze today.  Let's just tell all the young people that are on here that if you get in a plane you are going to die a horrible flaming death.  It is the truth I guess.
Title: Re: Prop...
Post by: 68ZooM on November 12, 2011, 12:30:29 PM
in miles traveled Air is the safest followed by Rail and Bus

Title: Re: Prop...
Post by: colmbo on November 12, 2011, 01:42:42 PM
in miles traveled Air is the safest followed by Rail and Bus



And if you look at deaths per trip you'll see that air travel is only safer than motorcycles and bicycles and over twice as dangerous as automobiles.

Title: Re: Prop...
Post by: colmbo on November 12, 2011, 01:46:09 PM
It was a stat that came out a few years ago, colmbo. I am not here to argue with anyone but I guess that someone lit your tampon fuze today.  Let's just tell all the young people that are on here that if you get in a plane you are going to die a horrible flaming death.  It is the truth I guess.


You might want to check your fuze. <G>

I never said flying equals death.  I've been flying since '72, I'm pretty comfortable with it.   I live in Alaska, we have a horrible aircraft accident rate up here -- some of that due to Alaska and some due to pilots pushing when they shouldn't -- it's very unforgiving.

I've never equated flying with a "horrible flaming death" -- unless you get in an airplane with a pilot that doesn't have his head screwed on straight. In that case you better have your estate planning in order.
Title: Re: Prop...
Post by: 2ADoc on November 12, 2011, 02:00:57 PM
Flying in Alaska is dangerous, wind, ice and pilots trying to get into places that are at best un-improved, along with mountains, and marginal nav aids, lead to some of the highest accident rates in the entire U.S.  Many of the the accidents up there are labeled as pilot error in that area.  Yes I can say that I get 99 % of the accident reports from the NTSB and the FAA.  Although many of the accidents in that area go un reported.
Title: Re: Prop...
Post by: MachFly on November 12, 2011, 09:21:18 PM
It was a stat that came out a few years ago, colmbo. I am not here to argue with anyone but I guess that someone lit your tampon fuze today.  Let's just tell all the young people that are on here that if you get in a plane you are going to die a horrible flaming death.  It is the truth I guess.


Are you sure that stat was not for passengers?