Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Seadog36 on December 04, 2011, 04:43:53 PM
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Now that the P-40s have been reworked and new models added, and the very important and significant Me-410 entering the fold. Its time to add the D-22/23 Jug variant! It would open up 14 more skin slots, where some of the mis-skinned D-11 skins could be moved to their late model Razorback slots.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n83/Urbanflotsom1/348_droptanks1.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n83/Urbanflotsom1/sleepytimegallarge.jpg)
Then bring in the the Ki-43 Oscar :aok
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Now that the P-40s have been reworked and new models added, and the very important and significant Me-410 entering the fold. Its time to add the D-22/23 Jug variant! It would open up 14 more skin slots, where some of the mis-skinned D-11 skins could be moved to their late model Razorback slots.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n83/Urbanflotsom1/348_droptanks1.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n83/Urbanflotsom1/sleepytimegallarge.jpg)
Then bring in the the Ki-43 Oscar :aok
specs? :headscratch:
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+1
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It is essentially the same plane as the D-25 we have in game with a Razorback configuration and the under wing pylons/hard points standardized with the D-15 model onwards. Most serviceable earlier model P-47s were retroactively fitted with later model wings and hardpoints. Fuel constraints were addressed immediately with the modification of 5th AF P-47s in the SW Pacific Arena. Razorback 47s saw active service through the last days of the war in both the Pacific, MTO and ETOs (though more in attack roles) alongside bubble top variants.
Should be an easy adaptation in the game.
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d11, d25, d40, N, M... only 5 jug models, with a relative fresh 3d model... 6 109s in game (more than 30k were pruduced)... see my point?
Even tho i agree the d23 or whatever the latest razorbacks number is, would be easy to add, i dont see the point in it. Already 32 skin slots per plane...
IMO there are much more inportent things on the to-do list than adding another very simmilar p47.
410, Jak, Oscar, he-111, tu-2/pe-2, c-20x update, hurricane update, 110 update, stuka update, wildcat update, b26 update, lancaster update etc etc.
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d11, d25, d40, N, M... only 5 jug models, with a relative fresh 3d model... 6 109s in game (more than 30k were pruduced)... see my point?
Even tho i agree the d23 or whatever the latest razorbacks number is, would be easy to add, i dont see the point in it. Already 32 skin slots per plane...
IMO there are much more inportent things on the to-do list than adding another very simmilar p47.
410, Jak, Oscar, he-111, tu-2/pe-2, c-20x update, hurricane update, 110 update, stuka update, wildcat update, b26 update, lancaster update etc etc.
Agreed 1+ we dont need anymore Jugs for time being.
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I want all those things too, a sea hurri would be a great addition.
I think the D-23 had way more merit then the P-47M of which only 133 were produced and due to problems with the power plant almost missed seeing any action altogether. Again it should be extremely easy to add. They need to fix the bug with bomber tail guns discos urgently too. :salute
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As much as a LOVE the P-47, we need to hold off on it, same thing with the Spits. We need to get misc planes, like dive bombers and out dated fighters. What we need is a P-51 razor back! I don't like how the P-51 is overused, but with the razor back, I must say it looks pretty bad a**.
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As much as a LOVE the P-47, we need to hold off on it, same thing with the Spits. We need to get misc planes, like dive bombers and out dated fighters. What we need is a P-51 razor back! I don't like how the P-51 is overused, but with the razor back, I must say it looks pretty bad a**.
You want a P-51B?
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(http://www.netaces.org/skins/p51b/default.jpg)
Ta-daaa...
Would be nice if we could get birdcage 51's though.
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Wasn't the Malcolm hood a field mod? :bolt:
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It is essentially the same plane as the D-25 we have in game with a Razorback configuration and the under wing pylons/hard points standardized with the D-15 model onwards. Most serviceable earlier model P-47s were retroactively fitted with later model wings and hardpoints. Fuel constraints were addressed immediately with the modification of 5th AF P-47s in the SW Pacific Arena. Razorback 47s saw active service through the last days of the war in both the Pacific, MTO and ETOs (though more in attack roles) alongside bubble top variants.
Should be an easy adaptation in the game.
Why do we need it? It adds as close to nothing to the game as possible while still adding a slight bit.
Understand this, the P-47 has the best representation in Aces High right now. The only competing lines are the Bf109s, F4Us, Fw190s and Spitfires.
- We have five P-47s covering three years, 1.67 P-47s per year.
- We have five F4Us covering four years, 1.25 F4Us per year.
- We have five Fw190s, counting the Ta152, covering four years, 1.25 Fw190s per year.
- We have seven Spitfires, counting the Seafire, covering six years, 1.167 Spitfires per year.
- We have six Bf109s covering six years, 1 Bf109 per year.
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Why do we need it? It adds as close to nothing to the game as possible while still adding a slight bit.
Understand this, the P-47 has the best representation in Aces High right now. The only competing lines are the Bf109s, F4Us, Fw190s and Spitfires.
- We have five P-47s covering three years, 1.67 P-47s per year.
- We have five F4Us covering four years, 1.25 F4Us per year.
- We have five Fw190s, counting the Ta152, covering four years, 1.25 Fw190s per year.
- We have seven Spitfires, counting the Seafire, covering six years, 1.167 Spitfires per year.
- We have six Bf109s covering six years, 1 Bf109 per year.
Agreed, believe me I would LOVE to see HTC polish off lines of aircraft, however unless it was unusually different "P47D-11 to a P47-M" for example,
we really need to finish off plane sets as well as add newer GV's.
For example, I been posting recently about updating the C205 to possibly having Drop Tanks (with a redesign of the c202/205 it would see logical to make an argument over it) as well as possibly throwing in the G.55 (Its Christmas why not?)
Also threw out the idea of adding the Sea Hurricane while the other Hurris get updated, as well as the Hurri Mk IIB.
This would increase some of their plane sets as well as update them to the latest standard, while the P47 has a long way to go before being updated.
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If another P-47 is needed it would be an earlier P-47 to extend its covered time. Something like a P-47C or P-47D-5.
We definitely do not need another 1944 P-47.
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I meant something that was more stream rined, rike this.
(http://www.mustangsmustangs.com/p-51/p51variants/images/P-51C.jpg)
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That's a birdcage.
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If another P-47 is needed it would be an earlier P-47 to extend its covered time. Something like a P-47C or P-47D-5.
The P-47 was the most numerously built U.S. fighter, half of which were the razorback variants of which the majority were built with or retrofitted with underwing hardpoints for fuel or ordinance. As such there is much merit and would add to FSOs historical events and AvA where D-25s are often erroneously subbed and would restore the P-47 to its roll as a pioneering ground attack role in MW.
There is negligible difference between the D-11 and earlier Ds and Cs and even the Cs and limited number of Bs did not see service soon enough to qualify them for Early War the way the dates in the game are arranged, though having a model in EW would be very attractive.
The introduction of the nearly identical D-25 and D-40 has caused the gap in representation in the earlier models, and the M an over representation of the least relevant segment which was well covered by the N.
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-1
we already have plenty of p47s
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That's a birdcage.
P-51Bs had the more attractive birdcage originally but AH replaced them all with the relatively less common Malcom hood bubble field modification because of complaints about visibility~ kills it. They had them on a small number of Razorback 47s but mercifully they haven't changed those! The field modification to the D-11, of adding underwing hardpoints and larger 13' prop should not be difficult or objectionable either.
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I always rather liked the birdcage on the P-51B before. Sort of sad to see it given a super generous field of view like it was.
The birdcage.... it had style!
Oh well. Maybe some day they'll give us an option in the hangar.
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I always rather liked the birdcage on the P-51B before. Sort of sad to see it given a super generous field of view like it was.
The birdcage.... it had style!
Oh well. Maybe some day they'll give us an option in the hangar.
But it was flown a lot less because of the visibility complaints. The Malcom made it a much more usable bird. It would be nice if we had both since the birdcage was on the B/C and the Malcom was on the B/C. It would allow for the correct look on the Pacific B/C models as they didn't get Malcoms out there, nor did the MTO birds. And obviously the early ETO birds didn't get it initially until March of 44.
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The P-47 was the most numerously built U.S. fighter, half of which were the razorback variants of which the majority were built with or retrofitted with underwing hardpoints for fuel or ordinance. As such there is much merit and would add to FSOs historical events and AvA where D-25s are often erroneously subbed and would restore the P-47 to its roll as a pioneering ground attack role in MW.
There is negligible difference between the D-11 and earlier Ds and Cs and even the Cs and limited number of Bs did not see service soon enough to qualify them for Early War the way the dates in the game are arranged, though having a model in EW would be very attractive.
The introduction of the nearly identical D-25 and D-40 has caused the gap in representation in the earlier models, and the M an over representation of the least relevant segment which was well covered by the N.
As I pointed out, the density of P-47 representation already far exceeds the other extensive lines in AH. If any line of fighters has a claim of a need for more examples it is the Yak1/3/7/9 series. We need a Bf109G-6/AS or Bf109G-14/AS far more than an additional P-47 for real performance reasons, not just cosmetics. A 1941 or early 1942 Fw190 would be a great addition as well. The most common Seafire, the Mk III, is also needed.
A LaGG-3, La-5, N1K1-J, Spitfire Mk XII, Ki-61-Ia, Ki-61-Ib, Mosquito F.Mk II, Mosquito Mk IV, Mosquito Mk 30 and P-38H would also all be better gap filling additions than the P-47D-15 or D-22.
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But it was flown a lot less because of the visibility complaints.
I'm not so sure that's the case. It was flown less because it didn't have 2x1000lbs, 10rkts, and 6x50cal. :D
Whenever I did fly the B it was because it was lesser armed. I also liked the birdcage, I won't lie.
You'd think HTC could do some sort of hangar option like the B-25C nose, only one has frames and the other is a bubble? Of course the P-51s were done before that system was implemented on the B-25s, so maybe they couldn't at the time but now they can?
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I'm not so sure that's the case. It was flown less because it didn't have 2x1000lbs, 10rkts, and 6x50cal. :D
Whenever I did fly the B it was because it was lesser armed. I also liked the birdcage, I won't lie.
You'd think HTC could do some sort of hangar option like the B-25C nose, only one has frames and the other is a bubble? Of course the P-51s were done before that system was implemented on the B-25s, so maybe they couldn't at the time but now they can?
I like this line of thinking Krusty, D-25 with a hanger razorback option or a 51b with a birdcage would be great~ +1
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I like this line of thinking Krusty, D-25 with a hanger razorback option or a 51b with a birdcage would be great~ +1
I don't think a D-25 with razorback would work as it would have a different flight model due to the greater directional stability from the razorback. Pyro said that the loadout system couldn't do things like that.
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^-- What he said. That's totally different with regards to flight modeling.
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(http://www.netaces.org/skins/p51b/default.jpg)
Ta-daaa...
Would be nice if we could get birdcage 51's though.
you mean get the birdcage back? :aok +1
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The only thing the P47 line needs is a hot tub, there's plenty of room for it, what's the hold up?
JUGgler
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+10000000000
I live jugs, 'specially the big ones.
Plus I think we need another MW jug
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Plus I think we need another MW jug
The requested P-47 would not be Mid-War, it would be Late-War.
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The requested P-47 would not be Mid-War, it would be Late-War.
yes I know, but im saying instead of that maybe a P47D-15
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yes I know, but im saying instead of that maybe a P47D-15
P-47D-15 would be Late-War I think. P-47D-11 just barely squeaks into Mid-War as I recall.
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+10000000000
I live jugs, 'specially the big ones.
Plus I think we need another MW jug
There arent "10000000000" new jugs for you.
You can request for the D-1, D-2, D-3, D-4, D-5, etc etc tho :rofl
A P-47C would be valid, but i cant really see the point in that.
For some people its just never enough.
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Oh, come on. Who do you think you are, skorpion??
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If we get ANY P47-C model, it should be the C-6.
just throwing that out there.
Oh, come on. Who do you think you are, skorpion??
i dont think you have any say in this. and i only ask for the P-47-D22.
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I was kidding...
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If we get ANY P47-C model, it should be the C-6.
just throwing that out there.
I don't recall the C seeing any combat?
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I don't recall the C seeing any combat?
got some proof that the C model didnt see any combat? im pretty sure it did.
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The 56th FG shipped out for England in Jan 1943, expecting to reunite with the B's they had been training in but were pleasantly surprised to find brand new C's awaiting them. Their B's were assigned to other units. The first P-47 combat victory was a C v a FW- 190 in April 1943.
The D-15 is a contemporary of the F6F-5 which is early for the MW time frame. F6F-3 without hvar rockets would be more accurate, but just. F6F-5 is easily one of the most popular MW aircraft for a large part its weapons package. A D-15 would definitely enjoy similar popularity.
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Considering the large holes in the Japanese and Italian plane sets, I think we have enough p-47s for now.
-1
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You sure about that? I thought from past forum discussions they trained on the Cs but between when they began training and when they saw combat, they had moved on to D models?
Or something like that?
P.S. I don't think we need a new jug. Not just for a visual addition. It would add no actual capability in this case.
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Krusty,
Here is a cyber source, http://www.cradleofaviation.org/history/aircraft/p-47/4.html. I believe many of those B were kept stateside for training. I can offer you print sources when I get back from sea if you like.
It's not just aesthetic, its historical representation~ Razorback P-47s with under wing hard points were one of the most produced of the most numerous US fighter.
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The 56th FG shipped out for England in Jan 1943, expecting to reunite with the B's they had been training in but were pleasantly surprised to find brand new C's awaiting them. Their B's were assigned to other units. The first P-47 combat victory was a C v a FW- 190 in April 1943.
The D-15 is a contemporary of the F6F-5 which is early for the MW time frame. F6F-3 without hvar rockets would be more accurate, but just. F6F-5 is easily one of the most popular MW aircraft for a large part its weapons package. A D-15 would definitely enjoy similar popularity.
The F6F-5 should not be present in the Mid-War arena. It is only there as a stand in for the F6F-3 and because its performance doesn't dominate. Ki-61-I-Tei is in the same boat.
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Krusty,
Here is a cyber source, http://www.cradleofaviation.org/history/aircraft/p-47/4.html. I believe many of those B were kept stateside for training. I can offer you print sources when I get back from sea if you like.
Many thanks, Seadog. You are correct!!! Although... While you are correct, I think it still proves my point. The Cs were in service all of about 1 month or so (going by the dates) and only had the few combat interactions.
"During the first week of April, all three P-47 Groups (4th, 56th and 78th) are formally declared operational. On April 8th, all three Groups turn out for a joint fighter sweep over France. Once again, the Luftwaffe ignores their presence. Several more sweeps are flown during the following days, all uneventful. Finally, on April 15th, Major Donald Blakeslee, of the 4th FG gets the P-47’s first kill by shooting down a Fw 190 near Dieppe. Two weeks later, the 56th loses two Thunderbolts when bounced by Focke Wulfs. They fail to shoot down any of their attackers. These fighters are replaced with the first P-47D models to arrive in the theater. Externally, the difference between the early D models and the P-47C is virtually undetectable to the untrained eye."
Next paragraphs go on to talk about P-47Ds and the photos dated show D models instead.
I disagree with you about the historical representation. While, yes, many razorbacks served longer and with retrofitted drop tanks, water injection, and any other number of field-fitted modifications bringing them up to the newer standards, what does that get us?
It gets us a D-25 with a graphical facelift. In short, it's an aesthetical change. It would offer no performance or mission capability beyond what is already modeled. In a pinch the D-25 more than handily substitutes for a number of razorback rides that predate it. Yes, I agree there is a graphical change, and to some that might be a deal breaker....
...however that aside it's really the same plane, you must admit.
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If another P-47 is needed it would be an earlier P-47 to extend its covered time. Something like a P-47C or P-47D-5.
We definitely do not need another 1944 P-47.
a early P-47C or D-5 would be nice. I believe the Russians had the "C".
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P-47D-15 would be Late-War I think. P-47D-11 just barely squeaks into Mid-War as I recall.
well I obviously dont know what years we have for EW,MW,and LW.
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4Prop~
EW: Sept 1939 - Sept 1941
MW: Sept 1941 - Sept 1943
LW: Sept 1943 - Sept 1945
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4Prop~
EW: Sept 1939 - Sept 1941
MW: Sept 1941 - Sept 1943
LW: Sept 1943 - Sept 1945
No, Early War goes at least until July, 1942 (Spitfire Mk IX) and Mid-War goes until at least December, 1943 (P-51B).
EW: Sept 1939 - July 1942
MW: Aug 1942 - Dec 1943
LW: Jan 1944 - Sept 1945
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No, Early War goes at least until July, 1942 (Spitfire Mk IX) and Mid-War goes until at least December, 1943 (P-51B).
EW: Sept 1939 - July 1942
MW: Aug 1942 - Dec 1943
LW: Jan 1944 - Sept 1945
That cant be accurate. The 109 G-2 was in production in 1942 May, and it is disabled in the EW arena, if i can remember correctly. //or i smell a luftwhine
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hmm..who to beleive. well thanks to all 3 (I'll include you to Debrody. dont wanna leave you out) its good enough to give me a good idea of what dates each arena is. :salute
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That cant be accurate. The 109 G-2 was in production in 1942 May, and it is disabled in the EW arena, if i can remember correctly. //or i smell a luftwhine
When did the Bf109G-2 enter service? That is the date that matters, not production. If it was in service in July, 1942 (the month the Spitfire Mk IX entered service) then it too should be enabled in Early War, no question.
The date that counts might be the date it saw combat, not entered service. I don't recall and I don't feel certain I recall if the Spit IX entered service in July, 1942 or saw combat for the first time in July, 1942, or both.
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When did the Bf109G-2 enter service? That is the date that matters, not production. If it was in service in July, 1942 (the month the Spitfire Mk IX entered service) then it too should be enabled in Early War, no question.
The date that counts might be the date it saw combat, not entered service. I don't recall and I don't feel certain I recall if the Spit IX entered service in July, 1942 or saw combat for the first time in July, 1942, or both.
G-2 entered service in June 42 with JG 2, AFAIK first loss in July 42.
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G-2 entered service in June 42 with JG 2, AFAIK first loss in July 42.
Then it should be enabled in the EW arena. I don't use the EW arena so I don't know if it would need to be perked. I assume the Spitfire Mk IX is perked there.
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Then it should be enabled in the EW arena. I don't use the EW arena so I don't know if it would need to be perked. I assume the Spitfire Mk IX is perked there.
Yes, the IX is perked.
But the G-2 wasn't missed there for years, the 190A-5 was filling the perked German fighter role.. and the 109 F-4 had been quite capable vs the occasional IX. But then I don't really care much anymore about the Hurricane II arena ;)
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The D25 and my sweet lovely "N"JUG is all that is required, the rest are just window dressing!
Ofcourse the "N" stands for NAUGHTY :angel:
JUGgler
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Considering the large holes in the Japanese and Italian plane sets, I think we have enough p-47s for now.
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I also would like to flesh out Japenese, italian and russian planesets before seeing more US/British/German added. Also, geting some other AC from samller countries would be nice I think someone actually listed a few in a thread awhile back
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Like the CANADIAN Hurricane with skis/floats, and 12x.303s
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Oh EW smackdown!
Karnak, where did you get your dates for EW,MW & LW, words like "should" and "at least" make it sound pretty subjective. What is your source?
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Oh EW smackdown!
Karnak, where did you get your dates for EW,MW & LW, words like "should" and "at least" make it sound pretty subjective. What is your source?
The service entry dates for the aircraft that are in the arenas. The Spitfire Mk IX entered active service in July, 1942, therefor the EWA has to cover at least through July 1942. The P-51B entered active service in December, 1943, therefor the MWA has to cover at least through December, 1943. The Mosquito Mk XVI entered active service in very early January, 1944 and is LWA only, therefore MWA does not cover January 1944 at all.
EDIT:
The fact that there are any US aircraft, other than the P-40C, in the EWA tells us that the EWA's coverage cannot end in September 1941.
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While I appreciate your attempts at an explanation Karnak, you clearly don't have a black and white source for your dates, just more flawed conjecture...
The F6F-5 did not appear in combat until April 2nd 1944 and the FW 190A-8 did not enter production until February 1944, let alone see combat~ Clearly late war aircraft u perked in MW.
If I wanted to twist your logic, MW then extends though April 1944 which should encompass the Mosquito XVI and for that matter the later universal wing equipped P-47s and I am sure there are many examples of fuzziness in EW,MW and LW aircraft assignments as well.
The first D-25 bubble canopy were in service in by 1944, clearly a contemporary of the F6F-5 and FWA-8.
Just one bona fide citation from HTC would settle the question~