Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: BaldEagl on December 11, 2011, 05:43:06 PM
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I was wondering yesterday why so many complain about spawn camping.
I was wondering this after reading Lusche's lament about tank town and while in-game at a major spawn battle, and that's just what it was, going both ways back and forth.
First in regards to Lushe's lament it seems there's one of these spawn battles on most maps, usually in the same places, so the players have evidently found a way to substiture this for tank town and it makes sense because it's much faster to get into the action.
Second, in relation to everyone else it seems both sides enjoy it otherwise these battles wouldn't form over and over in the same locations on the same maps everytime the map is up. Besides that neither side seems to try to shut down the other sides VH's further contributing to my thoughts that the GVers would prefer to be able to join that fight.
The Jabo's don't fly to take down hangers, only to kill GV's. The GVers don't really complain about the Jabo's because it's quick enough to get back into it. The fighters only come to kill the Jabos. Even the bombers don't go for the fields, only the GV's.
All in all it seems to me to be a healthy, fun and addictive passtime for all and it seems to me the only reason to complain would be if you don't like GVing or flying fighters, attack or bombers.
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Simple solution get a Hellcat and speed shoot, you can avoid a Stuka bomb with it's speed. :angel:
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I was wondering yesterday why so many complain about spawn camping.
I was wondering this after reading Lusche's lament about tank town and while in-game at a major spawn battle, and that's just what it was, going both ways back and forth.
First in regards to Lushe's lament it seems there's one of these spawn battles on most maps, usually in the same places, so the players have evidently found a way to substiture this for tank town and it makes sense because it's much faster to get into the action.
Second, in relation to everyone else it seems both sides enjoy it otherwise these battles wouldn't form over and over in the same locations on the same maps everytime the map is up. Besides that neither side seems to try to shut down the other sides VH's further contributing to my thoughts that the GVers would prefer to be able to join that fight.
The Jabo's don't fly to take down hangers, only to kill GV's. The GVers don't really complain about the Jabo's because it's quick enough to get back into it. The fighters only come to kill the Jabos. Even the bombers don't go for the fields, only the GV's.
All in all it seems to me to be a healthy, fun and addictive passtime for all and it seems to me the only reason to complain would be if you don't like GVing or flying fighters, attack or bombers.
I) My... lament about tank town? :headscratch:
II VH's at the bases had been frequently down today, and all the most used bases for this had been repeatedly captured by all sides.
III) Oh yes, GV'ers do complain about jabos, though I find it highly ironic at times ...
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The GVers don't really complain about the Jabo's because it's quick enough to get back into it.
What world are you occupying at the moment?
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GV spawn camping is one of the travesties within Aces High. Right along with tanks shooting down aircraft with their main gun, heavy bombers carpet bombing gv's w/ 1k bombs, dog-fighting 163's, and a few other things.
Camping gv spawn points achieve 2 things: it allows easy kills and quick action, per say. Obviously right on par with those who like arcade games.
Having a tank engagement in a "tank town" offers a place where men can gather and duke it out from longer starting ranges using cover, speed, and long distance shooting skills. The engagement is far more representative of the real deal than spawn camping, no doubt there. The playing field is ultimately even.
See the difference?
The Trinity map offers the absolute best tank town available in Aces High, yet spawn points at 135 seem to capture the attention of the circle jerkers. :bhead
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the only really good non spawn camped TT in the game is the one on the map ndisles.
the thing is freaking huge and most people dont bother to take it. sure your gonna get egg raped a few times but i have never had a problem with spawn camping.
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I) My... lament about tank town? :headscratch:
Or is it, because after ~2 years of "new" strats nobody even bothers to think about that option anymore, no matter what the situation really is? (This would worry me the most, as it reminds me of tanktown's fate :uhoh)
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GV spawn camping is one of the travesties within Aces High. Right along with tanks shooting down aircraft with their main gun, heavy bombers carpet bombing gv's w/ 1k bombs, dog-fighting 163's, and a few other things.
At least in the case of the heavy bombers 1) they actually did at least once carpet bomb a German tank division and 2) they have relatively little effect on the GVs in AH.
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That's some creative interpretation there... though not as much as the one in my "another idea" thread about scoring. ;)
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I don't use GV,s maybe a wirble when I am having a cup of tea :old:
if your GV spawn is camped tell me I will up a Typhoon with ords :old:
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That's some creative interpretation there...
QFT :confused:
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As I remember it, there used to be a tank town that existed in a basin that prevented most aircraft from interfering with the GV action.
Anyone else remember that map? Also, there was a map we called Donut, that had the equivalent of furball lake. It was my favorite all time AH map. I had so much fun with my newly acquired skills in a Wildcat. All the hot shot planes would come in guns blazing for an easy kill on the relic..... :lol She would absorb endless amounts of ammo and catch my attackers on an overshoot, surprise a turnfighter by whipping them at their own game, and countless memories of folks just augering trying to get low and slow over the lake with my F4F.
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At least in the case of the heavy bombers 1) they actually did at least once carpet bomb a German tank division and 2) they have relatively little effect on the GVs in AH.
I seem to recall in Panzer Commander, by Colonel Hanz Von Luck; in his detailing of Operation Goodwood, a rather large number of bombers knocking virtually the entire 21st Panzer out of action, save for a single Stug battalion, 1 Infantry Battalion, and a single 8.8cm flak battery which wasn't part of the division but was an independant luftwaffe unit out in the middle of nowhere. The Stugs, and flak battery were able to hold off... my memory is fuzzy I'll have to find the book, but I think it was two armored divisions, Canadian and British, who after watching the devastation and the first bit of advance finding nothing went in sloppy with no infantry support and lost around 50 tanks or so before being forced to retreat.
I recall him stating that the Tiger Battalion was really smashed, several of the tanks had been flipped upside down from the bombs hitting near them, one or two guys even committed suicide.
The only reason the 21st was able to hold is they had a 20 Km defense instead of the German standard of 15... if I recall correctly, the Stugs were far enough back that they weren't touched.
As far as the ingame spawn camping goes... I enjoy it, it lets me practice my gunnery, or my bombing, or my flak gunnery without having to drive around finding someone to shoot for twenty minutes. It's also a nice way to farm perks in my little Pz IV F. And when they take down the hangars, I get more perks bringing them back up with supplies. Win/Win.
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As I remember it, there used to be a tank town that existed in a basin that prevented most aircraft from interfering with the GV action.
Anyone else remember that map?
Yes, I do.
Trinity.
It had been up for the last few days ;)
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I wonder how many folks who complain about "spawn camping" actively vulch?
I wonder how many folks who spawn camp complain about being bombed?
I wonder how many vulchers complain about being "spawn camped"?
I wonder!
;)
JUGgler
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I wonder how many folks who complain about "spawn camping" actively vulch?
I wonder how many folks who spawn camp complain about being bombed?
I wonder how many vulchers complain about being "spawn camped"?
I wonder!
;)
JUGgler
Hear ye, hear ye, all take heed of the master of complaining and whining :aok
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Hear ye, hear ye, all take heed of the master of complaining and whining :aok
Damn, I knew I should have bathed. Don't fret the smell and taste is just dried urine!
:aok
JUGgler
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I was wondering yesterday why so many complain about spawn camping.
I was wondering this after reading Lusche's lament about tank town and while in-game at a major spawn battle, and that's just what it was, going both ways back and forth.
First in regards to Lushe's lament it seems there's one of these spawn battles on most maps, usually in the same places, so the players have evidently found a way to substiture this for tank town and it makes sense because it's much faster to get into the action.
Second, in relation to everyone else it seems both sides enjoy it otherwise these battles wouldn't form over and over in the same locations on the same maps everytime the map is up. Besides that neither side seems to try to shut down the other sides VH's further contributing to my thoughts that the GVers would prefer to be able to join that fight.
The Jabo's don't fly to take down hangers, only to kill GV's. The GVers don't really complain about the Jabo's because it's quick enough to get back into it. The fighters only come to kill the Jabos. Even the bombers don't go for the fields, only the GV's.
All in all it seems to me to be a healthy, fun and addictive passtime for all and it seems to me the only reason to complain would be if you don't like GVing or flying fighters, attack or bombers.
Are you talking about a spawn battle or Spawn camping? They are very different things. If someone is spawn camping there is no fight.
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The best GV fights are the ones where 2 spawns meet. To me, having to drive you're tank 5K to a fight is ridiculous. If it were up to me (it's not) I would move all spawn points closer to bases and have more spawn points meet. Anything to encourage more fighting (action). I'd also move bases closer together to cut down on transit time but that's a topic for another day.
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Why is TT on the small "Island" map (don't know the correct name for it) seem to be the most used vh battleground in AH, while the TT in the trinity map is a ghost town?
Thoughts?
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Why is TT on the small "Island" map (don't know the correct name for it) seem to be the most used vh battleground in AH, while the TT in the trinity map is a ghost town?
Thoughts?
Trinity TT once was one of the busiest place you could imagine. At any time of the day, you could find a very sizable portion of the players there, at times more than 100 moving, flanking, trying to camp (hard to do when there are 3 spawns per country) or to get into the town itself.
The simple answer: Ndisles map has never been discontinued, Trinity has.
After the big arena split of 2006, we 'lost' all big maps for a very long time. Trinity in particular was gone for about three years. If you look at the population turnover in a game like AH, it's almost an eternity. When it came back, only few players were left remembering what TT was like.
I was on at that very evening and joyfully jumped to TT.
*crickets*
Only a few of us were there, all old AH vets. But that handful wasn't enough to get it going again. Numbers breed numbers. When nobody is there, nobody goes there.
I may also add that NDisles TT is also just a shadow of it's former past. While the map stayed in rotation (and TT continued to be intense), somewhere in 2007 there was the big terrain update which introduced hedgerows... a friggen lot of 'em. This had a similar effect: Most players quickly left TT, and when the terrain was improved years later, not many players used to the concept of TT were left.
In fact, many of us 'spawnfighters' (snicker) on Trinity V135 would very much prefer the (almost plane free) Tank Town in the middle. But there is no way to get it going again, as you would have to convince all the newer players to spawn there too.
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If this explanation is too long, simply blame "today' point&click gamers", and rant about how "generation xbox" is ruining everything. ;)
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You dont have to drive 5000 yards to get to a tank battle in any tank town. Even so, many tanks have gun sights that will allow a tank to engage at that range. ;)
There is a reason that camping is very difficult to accomplish at a TT. First, there are multiple spawn points and for a circle jerker to try and cover them all is like tying to pee in to the wind and staying dry. Secondly, there is just enough distance between the spawn points to prevent the "spawn-n-scramble" effect. There is plenty of open terrain with pockets of cover, gentle hills to maneuver behind, and trees to cause a round or two to prematurely burst. Plus, there is a rather large group of buildings in the center of the battlefield.
I strongly disagree with the statement that "the best tank fights are where 2 spawn points meet". Those kinds of camp fests are one just the same: camp fests and "up-n-scramble" for cover. When spawn points are 3000-4000 yards apart then maybe. But otherwise, no.
The best tank engagements are to had at "tank town", at least for those who prefer not to play xbawks style games. ;)
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Are you talking about a spawn battle or Spawn camping? They are very different things. If someone is spawn camping there is no fight.
and whats a "spawn battle"? The guy spawning in gets off a shot before he's hit by no less than 3?
You dont have to drive 5000 yards to get to a tank battle in any tank town. Even so, many tanks have gun sights that will allow a tank to engage at that range. ;)
There is a reason that camping is very difficult to accomplish at a TT. First, there are multiple spawn points and for a circle jerker to try and cover them all is like tying to pee in to the wind and staying dry. Secondly, there is just enough distance between the spawn points to prevent the "spawn-n-scramble" effect. There is plenty of open terrain with pockets of cover, gentle hills to maneuver behind, and trees to cause a round or two to prematurely burst. Plus, there is a rather large group of buildings in the center of the battlefield.
I strongly disagree with the statement that "the best tank fights are where 2 spawn points meet". Those kinds of camp fests are one just the same: camp fests and "up-n-scramble" for cover. When spawn points are 3000-4000 yards apart then maybe. But otherwise, no.
The best tank engagements are to had at "tank town", at least for those who prefer not to play xbawks style games. ;)
I agree with this. The way it is set up works great for "tank battles" you have to shoot and move, use others as bait, flank, and so on. It may take 15 minutes to get a single kill.
What we have today is the "I want it now" gamers playing. Tactics and flanking means nothing. They want to spawn in and get as many kills as they can before they are spotted.
TT is empty because it's too much trouble to get kills there..... even if it was full of people.
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The best GV fights are the ones where 2 spawns meet. To me, having to drive you're tank 5K to a fight is ridiculous. If it were up to me (it's not) I would move all spawn points closer to bases and have more spawn points meet. Anything to encourage more fighting (action). I'd also move bases closer together to cut down on transit time but that's a topic for another day.
:aok
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Yes, I do.
Trinity.
It had been up for the last few days ;)
And tank town area is deserted, as usual.
ack-ack
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It would seem that some of you have an idea about how the tank fights should be that is in direct conflict with what it actually is,
So the question becomes , do you want a deserted map and no fights or would you rather let people play the way they want, all the while reaping the benefits of a much fuller arena?
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It would seem that some of you have an idea about how the tank fights should be that is in direct conflict with what it actually is,
So the question becomes , do you want a deserted map and no fights or would you rather let people play the way they want, all the while reaping the benefits of a much fuller arena?
Why would the maps be deserted? I think it is safe to say that if those few bases on Trinity were to go by the wayside, the TT on that map would light up with tank battles. That is the reason the Isles map has an active TT, there is no other alternative. The circle jerkin at gv spawn points do not exist on that map, yet TT is alive and well. Remove the lowest common denominator and the experience just went up a notch in realism AND game play.
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So your solution is to take out the spawns were the players are in order to force them to play where you want them to?
And what's stop them from logging off?
Offering a better solution is a much healthier way to cultivate the game than dictating or directing play away from where it already exists
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Getting killed by a spawn camper is about as much fun as getting vulched. In an aircraft the solution is simple, take off from another base. The solution to spawn camping is also simple, implementing it however will take some time. The map makers need to utilize more of the spawn points available at each base. Here's an example of what I'm talking about;
(http://332nd.org/dogs/baumer/BBS%20Stuff/ahbbs2011/SpawnCamp.png)
There are 8 spawn points available at each base (some need to be used for PT spawns I understand) but all of them are seldom used on the current maps. I think utilizing more spawn points would mitigate any potential camping situation. BTW didn't Hitech used to spawn camp the aircraft spawns in Air Warrior? What was the solution to that problem?
:devil
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So your solution is to take out the spawns were the players are in order to force them to play where you want them to?
And what's stop them from logging off?
Offering a better solution is a much healthier way to cultivate the game than dictating or directing play away from where it already exists
No one is dictating to them on how to play, I'm suggesting that HTC adjust the spawn points so that camping is far less common in hopes that the TT on Trinity will be used. The reason it isnt is simple: the camp fests are too easy to be had. Remove the lowest common denominator and things get better, the bar is raised. Funny how on the Isles map TT is ALWAYS busy with tank activity and those only thing different on that map vs Trinity is the lack of circle jerk spawn points. The players STILL play, they STILL have tank battles, they STILL have fun.
I guarantee you that more players stop gv'ing because of being camped vs not having the chance to camp. If Trinity didnt have 135 and a few other spawn points, the TT would be for more active. Guaranteed.
Also, FWIW, I've suggest the very thing that Baumer just posted as well. The choices for spawn points should be maxed. If there were 3 spawn points to an enemy field instead of just 1, it would stop the circle jerkers dead cold, they'd get bored or get sent back to tower.
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I was wondering yesterday why so many complain about spawn camping.
All in all it seems to me to be a healthy, fun and addictive pass-time for all and it seems to me the only reason to complain would be if you don't like GVing or flying fighters, attack or bombers.
IMO it's enjoyed all around and is pretty healthy release of tension. Some people need to get angry on this game as part of their enjoyment and tension release so they don't go out a kick their dog, beat their kids, get in trouble at school, etc. The one's that complain the loudest, rarely get mad enough to log off, and, most likely, will just up something different to even the score. It may sound weird, but it's much better that joining a gang to vent anger.
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Why would the maps be deserted? I think it is safe to say that if those few bases on Trinity were to go by the wayside, the TT on that map would light up with tank battles. That is the reason the Isles map has an active TT, there is no other alternative. The circle jerkin at gv spawn points do not exist on that map, yet TT is alive and well. Remove the lowest common denominator and the experience just went up a notch in realism AND game play.
Irrespective of whether I am the camper or the campee, I have had an absolute blast at the V135 spawn ...... while I don't disagree with your position entirely, I think it's begs the question.... is my (and everyone else who enjoys that particular spawn) idea of fun any less valued than the purist's that have to drive 5 minutes to the fight?
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GV spawn camping is one of the travesties within Aces High. Right along with tanks shooting down aircraft with their main gun, heavy bombers carpet bombing gv's w/ 1k bombs, dog-fighting 163's, and a few other things.
Camping gv spawn points achieve 2 things: it allows easy kills and quick action, per say. Obviously right on par with those who like arcade games.
Having a tank engagement in a "tank town" offers a place where men can gather and duke it out from longer starting ranges using cover, speed, and long distance shooting skills. The engagement is far more representative of the real deal than spawn camping, no doubt there. The playing field is ultimately even.
See the difference?
The Trinity map offers the absolute best tank town available in Aces High, yet spawn points at 135 seem to capture the attention of the circle jerkers. :bhead
Mmmmmmmm.
My favorite part of GV-ing :aok :aok
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IMO it's enjoyed all around and is pretty healthy release of tension. Some people need to get angry on this game as part of their enjoyment and tension release so they don't go out a kick their dog, beat their kids, get in trouble at school, etc. The one's that complain the loudest, rarely get mad enough to log off, and, most likely, will just up something different to even the score. It may sound weird, but it's much better that joining a gang to vent anger.
Gotta watch out for the Idaho Surenos 13, eh?
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Irrespective of whether I am the camper or the campee, I have had an absolute blast at the V135 spawn ...... while I don't disagree with your position entirely, I think it's begs the question.... is my (and everyone else who enjoys that particular spawn) idea of fun any less valued than the purist's that have to drive 5 minutes to the fight?
:aok
Love that V135 spawn also. Great fights there but spawning from V187 you're sometimes at a disadvantage unless you own V135. Never heard a complaint of camping or bomb****ing there for some reason. :headscratch:
After some intense Dogfighting it's great to relax a little with some tanking. :joystick:
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Irrespective of whether I am the camper or the campee, I have had an absolute blast at the V135 spawn ...... while I don't disagree with your position entirely, I think it's begs the question.... is my (and everyone else who enjoys that particular spawn) idea of fun any less valued than the purist's that have to drive 5 minutes to the fight?
I'm sorry, I cant think of a TT where anyone has to drive 5 min for a tank battle. Enlighten me if you know of one. Until you do your "5 minute drive" is irrelevant because it does not exist.
As for the value in your fun vs my fun, that is not really the point either. The lowest common denominator for gv battles in AH is the 135 spawn. Spawn in and either get camped or scurry away for cover. It is an instant turkey shoot. Perhaps HTC should introduce the 5k, 10k, 15k, and 20k "insta-spawn" for aircraft? Would more fun be had because the aircraft can spawn in at altitude? Nah. Would tanks have less fun if the 135 spawns didnt exist? Nah. Tank Town offers all the same fun as 135, the big thing is there wouldnt be any victims of the constant camp. Tank towns have at minimum 3 spawn points that are not going to be camped, and it allows for actual tactics to be used. It allows a level playing field from the start.
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I'm sorry, I cant think of a TT where anyone has to drive 5 min for a tank battle. Enlighten me if you know of one. Until you do your "5 minute drive" is irrelevant because it does not exist.
As for the value in your fun vs my fun, that is not really the point either. The lowest common denominator for gv battles in AH is the 135 spawn. Spawn in and either get camped or scurry away for cover. It is an instant turkey shoot. Perhaps HTC should introduce the 5k, 10k, 15k, and 20k "insta-spawn" for aircraft? Would more fun be had because the aircraft can spawn in at altitude? Nah. Would tanks have less fun if the 135 spawns didnt exist? Nah. Tank Town offers all the same fun as 135, the big thing is there wouldnt be any victims of the constant camp. Tank towns have at minimum 3 spawn points that are not going to be camped, and it allows for actual tactics to be used. It allows a level playing field from the start.
I think I read somewhere that you couldn't be the victim of a camped spawn if you didn't spawn there. Unfortunately, I cannot cite the resource right now...
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I think I read somewhere that you couldn't be the victim of a camped spawn if you didn't spawn there. Unfortunately, I cannot cite the resource right now...
You are a student of Confucius, ain't ya. :aok
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You are a student of Confucius, ain't ya. :aok
No, but I DID stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.
I also know that I won't get shocked if I don't piss on the electric fence (same book as the spawn camping) :aok
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Gotta watch out for the Idaho Surenos 13, eh?
Har! I haven't always pitched my tent in Idaho....Phoenix, Dallas, OKC, anyway, it was an obvious exaggeration to make a point. :ahand
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Irrespective of whether I am the camper or the campee, I have had an absolute blast at the V135 spawn ...... while I don't disagree with your position entirely, I think it's begs the question.... is my (and everyone else who enjoys that particular spawn) idea of fun any less valued than the purist's that have to drive 5 minutes to the fight?
Of course not. He's just PO'd because he's in the country that doesn't have access to that spawn. ;)
To SmokinLoon:
Seriously though, even if you detest that type of play (that so many others obviously enjoy), fly something out there. The mere fact that the spawn battle rages attracts all types of aircraft at all altitudes. It's a fun place to play no matter what you like to do. And that was my point; why complain when it's creating just the types of fights so many wish for.
You'd seriously rather have that battle in an area that only the most bored pilots would be willing to access?
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I'm sorry, I cant think of a TT where anyone has to drive 5 min for a tank battle. Enlighten me if you know of one. Until you do your "5 minute drive" is irrelevant because it does not exist.
I am guilty of a bit of hyperbole there but the premise remains... it ISN'T the INSTANT action that the V135 spawn offers.
As for the value in your fun vs my fun, that is not really the point either.
It's MY point. Hence the reason I took the time to make it.
The lowest common denominator for gv battles in AH is the 135 spawn. Spawn in and either get camped or scurry away for cover. It is an instant turkey shoot.
You've made it abundantly clear that this isn't YOUR version of fun, but what of the many who DO find the INSTANT aspect of this spawn fun? Should YOUR fun take priority over all of those who already get tons of enjoyment from that instant action spawn?
Perhaps HTC should introduce the 5k, 10k, 15k, and 20k "insta-spawn" for aircraft? Would more fun be had because the aircraft can spawn in at altitude? Nah.
Having come from Fighter Ace, where such a room existed.... and having cut my teeth in that room, and having gained tons of enjoyment from that room for many years, and knowing that many of my FA comrades choose NOT to make the leap to AH because it doesnt have a comparable room... I.... am fully aware of the fact that FUN is a very subjective thing, and your arbitrary "Nah's" hint at a bit of smug arrogance.
Would tanks have less fun if the 135 spawns didnt exist? Nah.
Again, very presumptuous.
Tank Town offers all the same fun as 135, the big thing is there wouldnt be any victims of the constant camp. Tank towns have at minimum 3 spawn points that are not going to be camped, and it allows for actual tactics to be used. It allows a level playing field from the start.
As I stated in my first sentence of my first post in this thread.... I have fun there whether Im camping, or being camped.... I realize I may be in the minority with this particular aspect of my argument, but I get tons of enjoyment by breaking a camped spawn by spawning INTO it. The other night at the V135 spawn, SHawk (who has my gratitude for flying top cover) said to me on VOX... "you know it's just you fighting against like 6 enemy's down there dont you?" My reply was "Yeah, I know, but Im having fun!" Another night at V135 it was me vs 4 or 5 of the Freebirds... incredible fun!
Have I had fun at that TT in the middle of the island? (dont know the name of the map) Yes
Do I get enjoyment from using the run and gun or ambush tactics you seem to be advocating? Yes
Do I have MORE fun at the V135 spawn? My answer may change in the future, but for now I have to say YES, I do have more fun there.
I'll leave you with just one of the many sayings I am thankful my Grandfather passed down to me. "There's enough different ways, for everybody to have one."
:salute Nish
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I overflew tank town at 20k feet in a fighter yesterday and saw at least 15 enemy fighters as high or higher.
Not sure why they were there.....I was just passing through.