Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: wil3ur on February 25, 2012, 06:14:08 PM
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It'd be nice if the engines didn't always start on the first turn. Making it so sometimes takes 2 or 3 or even 5 attempts to get your engine started would add a bit of realism to the game. Also I find it completely ridiculous to fight someone in 2 consecutive flights and have them cut their engines no less than 10 times, and have it instantly start back up. The E key is used as a crutch when in reality it should be throttle control. If the engine didn't always start right back up, maybe it'd force people to learn other aspects of the game besides Shift-+ and HO... i mean go.
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ditto
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kill all sound packs? ill pass.
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kill all sound packs? ill pass.
You loop the first second or so of the "engine starrtup" sound. Problem solved.
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One of the Me109k4 engines does this, sounds pretty nice actually, same with the F4u that I have, it cranks over a few times then fires up.
I wish someone could rip the sound from the Red Bull F4u4 starting up (youtube) - its by far the perfect startup i've seen in a while.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWtMTCXOynM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWtMTCXOynM)
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It isn't hard to re-start an engine if the prop is still spinning.
The reason why it might take you a few attempts to start the engine on the ground is if your doing something wrong. So do you really want HTC to program random pilot mistakes?
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It isn't hard to re-start an engine if the prop is still spinning.
The reason why it might take you a few attempts to start the engine on the ground is if your doing something wrong. So do you really want HTC to program random pilot mistakes?
Have you ever had vapor lock before?
+1
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Have you ever had vapor lock before?
+1
No, I didn't.
As far as I know the only time when you would get is (given proper conditions) when your fuel pump can not provide enough pressure to overcome it. So if that happens it's probably time to change your fuel pump. Also in addition to the heat and working equipment the type of fuel will make a difference.
I don't think this should be programmed in AH.
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It's still nice that the Storch and WWI planes can overrev their engines... this would be along those same lines.
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It's still nice that the Storch and WWI planes can overrev their engines... this would be along those same lines.
That can be controlled by the player. Since we don't have specific engine controls, time aircraft spends with engine off is not measured, and weather is not programmed starting the engine can not controlled by the player.
For your wish to be added we'd need the following:
Mixture
Primer
Measurement of time the specific aircraft spends on the ground with the engine off
Outside air temperate
Different fuel types
Random mechanical malfunctions
(Maybe I'm missing a few but this is all that comes to mind)
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As much as I like the idea I wouldn't wanted it implemented. Randomness takes all skill out of the equation. Randomness can cause an unskilled person to win a fight.
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It'd be nice if the engines didn't always start on the first turn. Making it so sometimes takes 2 or 3 or even 5 attempts to get your engine started would add a bit of realism to the game. Also I find it completely ridiculous to fight someone in 2 consecutive flights and have them cut their engines no less than 10 times, and have it instantly start back up. The E key is used as a crutch when in reality it should be throttle control. If the engine didn't always start right back up, maybe it'd force people to learn other aspects of the game besides Shift-+ and HO... i mean go.
isnt it funny how everything that people want added is always in the name of realism no matter how useless the wish is? nothing personal wil3ur but how in the heck sitting in the runway pressing e will make a game more realistic? It's a game and it isnt more realistic than a dream.
you want realism then ask for a military chain of command. . we can have the president of the country, secretary of the army, the generals...
you refused to follow orders you get court martial. you switch country, you will be treated as a captured spy and shot. how is that for "realism" :rofl.
semp
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Absolutely no benefit to 'random start-up failures' when you're sitting on the runway.
I don't know enough about these engines to know how easy it is to restart an engine in flight. However, it doesn't seem like it would be too hard to make the engine take longer to start-up if you've over a certain speed.
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isnt it funny how everything that people want added is always in the name of realism no matter how useless the wish is? nothing personal wil3ur but how in the heck sitting in the runway pressing e will make a game more realistic? It's a game and it isnt more realistic than a dream.
you want realism then ask for a military chain of command. . we can have the president of the country, secretary of the army, the generals...
you refused to follow orders you get court martial. you switch country, you will be treated as a captured spy and shot. how is that for "realism" :rofl.
semp
I doubt that you'd be playing this game if it was in space with sci-fi space ships. Or remember the flying sharks with lasers, would you like to have those available in the MA on daily bases?
So you probably care about realism.
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more talking about when you're inverted in a high G manuver and you cut your engine, then expect it to roll back over no problem, but on the runway too. It'd be funny watching horde missions form up.
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I wish someone could rip the sound from the Red Bull F4u4 starting up (youtube) - its by far the perfect startup i've seen in a while.
I'm not so sure it was a "perfect" start. He seemed to be doing something wrong the first couple of attempts -- guessing either priming or mixture. I haven't started a 2800 but I have done lots of starts on an 1830 and they consistently started on the 12th blade. They only time they didn't is if we'd goofed something up.
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No, I didn't.
As far as I know the only time when you would get is (given proper conditions) when your fuel pump can not provide enough pressure to overcome it. So if that happens it's probably time to change your fuel pump. Also in addition to the heat and working equipment the type of fuel will make a difference.
The classic vapor lock occurs while the engine is off. Heat vaporizes the fuel in the line. A weak pump may prevent you from clearing the line but isn't really a factor in the lock occuring.
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I doubt that you'd be playing this game if it was in space with sci-fi space ships. Or remember the flying sharks with lasers, would you like to have those available in the MA on daily bases?
So you probably care about realism.
not really i care about flying with squadies and some other good friends I have.
semp
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-1, if we include the initial start up from take-off. We're assuming that everything is under ideal conditions here, as we are where every single aspect of maintenence, human-error, supply, etc.
For a game, I think thats as it should be. The entire purpose of playing the game isn't really to see how many aircraft you can vulch on the runway because their engines didn't start up. Or how many Tiger tanks you can 'kill', because they ran out of fuel, and fighter-bombers hit their ammo trucks. I mean in my mind, the entire point of the game is to see how good you are, and if you can beat the other guys in a fight. Get down to the core of that, and the point of the game is to be challenged.
However, if its the mid-flight engine cutters, then hell yes. Learn to work the throttle, or you'll end up as someones free scooby-snack.
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The classic vapor lock occurs while the engine is off. Heat vaporizes the fuel in the line. A weak pump may prevent you from clearing the line but isn't really a factor in the lock occuring.
Yeah but my point is the lock wont prevent you from starting the engine given you have a good fuel pump.
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not really i care about flying with squadies and some other good friends I have.
semp
Hmm
So what made you choose AH in the first place?
There had to be some reason why you chose a game that's based on WWII rather than a game based on Star Wars.
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For gameplay purposes, this is a stupid idea. Who wants to be prevented from getting into the action as quickly as possible because of a random event?
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I agree if it is applying to the engine in flight. I honestly can't imagine that they really turned off engines during flight in a single engine aircraft to try and out maneuver some other plane.
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Hmm
So what made you choose AH in the first place?
There had to be some reason why you chose a game that's based on WWII rather than a game based on Star Wars.
my old squad was here and I wanted to play with them. I met them in aw but i stopped playing around 2k didnt get a computer till 2005 when I came here looking for them as it was listed on the website that that's where they were. but the squad had been disbanded and since i met some really cool guys then i kept playing. I still see lots of players that I flew with from aw. It has never been the planes that kept me around, it has always been the players.
but I still laugh when somebody says "it's more realistic...". it's a game and it will never be realistic. it can simulate reality but that's as close as it gonna get :salute.
semp
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You loop the first second or so of the "engine starrtup" sound. Problem solved.
go ahead and try that with engines that use the shotgun starter. or sounds with no starter.
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If you want more realism consider that pilots didn't start their aircraft, the crew did. Increasing realism would be for the engine to already be on and warmed up when you jump in the cockpit. If you want to pretend your engine didn't start the first time just tap the E key again.
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Yeah but my point is the lock wont prevent you from starting the engine given you have a good fuel pump.
LOL. Okay....
Get some more experience with high performance aircraft.
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Technacally isn't this already available: "e" button?
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LOL. Okay....
Get some more experience with high performance aircraft.
Ah...the typical Golfer answer. I am surprised that it came from you though.
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my old squad was here and I wanted to play with them. I met them in aw but i stopped playing around 2k didnt get a computer till 2005 when I came here looking for them as it was listed on the website that that's where they were. but the squad had been disbanded and since i met some really cool guys then i kept playing. I still see lots of players that I flew with from aw. It has never been the planes that kept me around, it has always been the players.
but I still laugh when somebody says "it's more realistic...". it's a game and it will never be realistic. it can simulate reality but that's as close as it gonna get :salute.
semp
So as long as your squadies are here you wont mind the flying shark with lasers being available on daily bases?
There are good things in reality and bad thing. A lot of people are wishing for the game to be as close to reality as possible but we also need to filter out all the bad things from reality so they would not deteriorate the game.
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So as long as your squadies are here you wont mind the flying shark with lasers being available on daily bases?
There are good things in reality and bad thing. A lot of people are wishing for the game to be as close to reality as possible but we also need to filter out all the bad things from reality so they would not deteriorate the game.
i totally understand that. as i myself have never flown an airplane i cant tell if anything is accurate or not and basically i do not care but at the same time i understand that you want to make the airplane flying as close to "reality" as possible. however you gotta draw the line somewhere as for I wouldnt want to fly for hours on end just to make it "realistic" for somebody because that's how it is in rl. having to press e several times to start the engine is not realistic it's annoying.
me I would be more than happy to comply with somebody's wish to be on the runway pressing the start button several times trying to start the engine as I dive down to get another easy kill. vulching is already easy as hell, let's not make it any easier.
there are better uses to the "add a bit of realism" term, this is not one of them :salute.
semp
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This was completely derailed by the "Runway" straw man arguement. As my Original Post and subsequent post made mention of, it has more to do with "In flight" toggling your engines on and off, especially while in High-G situations.
But if you want to argue the merrits of something I wasn't talking about... go ahead, or Skuzzy could just lock the post because no one wants to speak about the topic.
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i totally understand that. as i myself have never flown an airplane i cant tell if anything is accurate or not and basically i do not care but at the same time i understand that you want to make the airplane flying as close to "reality" as possible. however you gotta draw the line somewhere as for I wouldnt want to fly for hours on end just to make it "realistic" for somebody because that's how it is in rl. having to press e several times to start the engine is not realistic it's annoying.
me I would be more than happy to comply with somebody's wish to be on the runway pressing the start button several times trying to start the engine as I dive down to get another easy kill. vulching is already easy as hell, let's not make it any easier.
there are better uses to the "add a bit of realism" term, this is not one of them :salute.
semp
Agreed.
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Ah...the typical Golfer answer. I am surprised that it came from you though.
I'm sorry but at times your lack of experience is displayed like a neon sign.
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This was completely derailed by the "Runway" straw man arguement. As my Original Post and subsequent post made mention of, it has more to do with "In flight" toggling your engines on and off, especially while in High-G situations.
But if you want to argue the merrits of something I wasn't talking about... go ahead, or Skuzzy could just lock the post because no one wants to speak about the topic.
Turning your engine off and on in flight is done by moving your mixture level. You turn it off by cutting the fuel and on by giving it fuel, as long as the prop is still moving it's as simple as that.
I don't have a problem with people turning their engines off in flight, their just making it harder for themselves. Yes they slow down faster but it will take them significantly longer to apply full power.
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I'm sure it was in every WWII fighter manual and flight class too -- "If you overshoot your target, shut off your engine... it'll help you slow down faster."
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I'm sorry but at times your lack of experience is displayed like a neon sign.
If you think that I'm wrong then say that I'm wrong and add the correction. I'm not going to get into a basic yes/no argument.
And just for the record, there is a reason why I started talking about this with "As far as I know...". I'm not claiming that what I'm saying are facts, I'm saying what I understand.
As far as I know the only time when you would get is (given proper conditions) when your fuel pump can not provide enough pressure to overcome it. So if that happens it's probably time to change your fuel pump. Also in addition to the heat and working equipment the type of fuel will make a difference.
I don't think this should be programmed in AH.
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I'm sure it was in every WWII fighter manual and flight class too -- "If you overshoot your target, shut off your engine... it'll help you slow down faster."
No because that's a very stupid thing to do, in real like and in AH. So if they chose to do it their making a mistake and most of the time end up paying the price.
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In AH there are 'features' in the game that make restarting your engine a no-penalty thing in both GV's and Airplanes... I'm simply saying either correct the 'feature' or make it so your desperation move is just that... and you damn well better hope your engine starts back up.
BTW: To you non-coders or tech-support people out there a "Feature" is a bug that won't be addressed and is glossed over as an intentional part of the program. There are also never any "Problems" with software only "Issues".
This has been your corporate doublespeek lesson of the day.
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In AH there are 'features' in the game that make restarting your engine a no-penalty thing in both GV's and Airplanes... I'm simply saying either correct the 'feature' or make it so your desperation move is just that... and you damn well better hope your engine starts back up.
Sure in the real world there is a possibility that something will go wrong and your engine wont start, just like there is a possibility that your engine will fail in cruise. But you do you really want to add random mechanical malfunctions to AH?
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MachFly, let me ask you this question:
Do you shut off your engine in combat as a standard "ACM"?
If not... then let me ask you this:
Why are you so assertive that this shouldn't be changed?
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MachFly, let me ask you this question:
Do you shut off your engine in combat as a standard "ACM"?
If not... then let me ask you this:
Why are you so assertive that this shouldn't be changed?
No I don't because it's stupid and mos likely wont help me. The reason I don't want this changed is because I don't have a problem with people doing stupid things that cause them to loose in the end. Another reason why I don't want this changed is because you could do the same in real life.
For example we have people in AH who always do belly landings, they don't care about the plane and it's easier for them to do that. In real life if you do that you'll damage the plane so you don't do a belly landing every time.
Also I can't think of a realistic way to stop people from turning off their engines in flight without adding random malfunctions, and trust me were better off with some people turning their engines off and on than all of us randomly loosing engines.
See I understand why your asking for this but I just don't see an effective solution. Plus I don't think that this is a big problem.
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You guys are cranky tonight. :neener:
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If you think that I'm wrong then say that I'm wrong and add the correction. I'm not going to get into a basic yes/no argument.
And just for the record, there is a reason why I started talking about this with "As far as I know...". I'm not claiming that what I'm saying are facts, I'm saying what I understand.
Fair enough. Why do you think a weak fuel pump is part of the problem? Diesel engines have very high fuel pressures yet air in an injector line is bad news.
I've had an engine failure on a 206 during descent that we believe was due to vapor lock. I know that the fuel pump on that airplane was working up to par -- the Cessna fuel pumps measure pressure even though they show flow rate on the gauge. A fuel pressure/flow rate check was part of the takeoff scan. The airplane ran fine after a short cool down on the ground.
It would seem that running an electric fuel pump to move cool fuel through the lines would fix the problem but it isn't that simple sometimes. Some aircraft fall victim to it more than others due to system design.
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I wasn't aware that diesel engines can also have such problems.
How can you have a vapor lock when your already flying? I thought if that engine is already started vapor lock would not happen.
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I wasn't aware that diesel engines can also have such problems.
How can you have a vapor lock when your already flying? I thought if that engine is already started vapor lock would not happen.
One would think.
Vapor lock is the only thing we could come up with as a reason it quit. Low power during descent, engine started surging and fuel pressure fluctuating. Boost pump to high, mixture richer, switched tanks all no help -- big surge and engine quit. Down to 5000 AGL so didn't spend much time playing with it for restart, just flew the pattern and landed. Explained to the boss what happened (he had been operating this specific airplane (as well as other 200 series Cessnas) for over 20 years and knew it very well). Engine driven and electric fuel pumps working fine, clean fuel, plenty of fuel. After 10 minutes or so I started it up no problems, a couple high speed taxiis using takeoff power then a short test flight - all without any issues.
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It'd be nice if the engines didn't always start on the first turn. Making it so sometimes takes 2 or 3 or even 5 attempts to get your engine started would add a bit of realism to the game. Also I find it completely ridiculous to fight someone in 2 consecutive flights and have them cut their engines no less than 10 times, and have it instantly start back up. The E key is used as a crutch when in reality it should be throttle control. If the engine didn't always start right back up, maybe it'd force people to learn other aspects of the game besides Shift-+ and HO... i mean go.
But we have the pattented AH perfect-mixture/primo-prime/instant-preoiler system, guarenteed to be just right and instantaneous each time you flip on the mags.
OK, but seriously, if they do this, then next we'll have to impliment marshallers just to let us know if we're wet or dry prime just to alleviate subscriber smashed-monitor rates.
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One would think.
Vapor lock is the only thing we could come up with as a reason it quit. Low power during descent, engine started surging and fuel pressure fluctuating. Boost pump to high, mixture richer, switched tanks all no help -- big surge and engine quit. Down to 5000 AGL so didn't spend much time playing with it for restart, just flew the pattern and landed. Explained to the boss what happened (he had been operating this specific airplane (as well as other 200 series Cessnas) for over 20 years and knew it very well). Engine driven and electric fuel pumps working fine, clean fuel, plenty of fuel. After 10 minutes or so I started it up no problems, a couple high speed taxiis using takeoff power then a short test flight - all without any issues.
Interesting.
I don't understand how you can have a vapor lock if your engine is already running. Don't get me worn I believe what your saying, I'm just trying to figure out what mechanically needs to happen in order to get a vapor lock.
If the engine is already running than the fuel pumps are running so what ever vapor might develop in the fuel lines would go to the engine right away, so it would not have time to develop a large bauble that would stop the engine. I am wrong?
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Fuel boils at a pretty low temperature.
You don't need a "large bubble" since many small ones are enough to lean the engine beyond the ability to fire.
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Interesting.
I don't understand how you can have a vapor lock if your engine is already running. Don't get me worn I believe what your saying, I'm just trying to figure out what mechanically needs to happen in order to get a vapor lock.
If the engine is already running than the fuel pumps are running so what ever vapor might develop in the fuel lines would go to the engine right away, so it would not have time to develop a large bauble that would stop the engine. I am wrong?
I have had it multiple times taxing with a hot engine. Had to flip the boost pump on to keep the engine running.
HiTech
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Interesting.
That's flying.
I don't understand how you can have a vapor lock if your engine is already running. Don't get me worn I believe what your saying, I'm just trying to figure out what mechanically needs to happen in order to get a vapor lock.
If the engine is already running than the fuel pumps are running so what ever vapor might develop in the fuel lines would go to the engine right away, so it would not have time to develop a large bauble that would stop the engine. I am wrong?
And I was descending with lots of what should have been cooling air flowing around the injector lines.
I trust what the boss said. He had operated that particular airplane for around 11,000 hours and was on the 5th or 6th engine in it. He has been working on airplanes since the '50s (Marine Corp working on Corsairs and Skyraiders) and had a very large knowledge bank to draw from. Things aren't always as the "common knowledge" would lead you to believe.
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And I was descending with lots of what should have been cooling air flowing around the injector lines.
I trust what the boss said. He had operated that particular airplane for around 11,000 hours and was on the 5th or 6th engine in it. He has been working on airplanes since the '50s (Marine Corp working on Corsairs and Skyraiders) and had a very large knowledge bank to draw from. Things aren't always as the "common knowledge" would lead you to believe.
I don't doubt that you trust him and that he is correct. I'm trying to figure out how it's physically possible.
I have had it multiple times taxing with a hot engine. Had to flip the boost pump on to keep the engine running.
HiTech
I'm having hard time understand why that would happen.
Could you explain why that happens?
Thanks
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Fuel boils at a pretty low temperature.
You don't need a "large bubble" since many small ones are enough to lean the engine beyond the ability to fire.
In that case it would be happening all the time. Since it doesn't than it must not be the case.
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A bit off topic...
I knew of an instructor who used to simulate engine outs with his students by leaning the mixture until the engine cut out. One time, him and his student were practicing landing in a field. At about 500', the instructor put the mixture back to full rich to start a climbout, but the engine didn't come back to life. They made a real forced landing in the field. Instructor and student were unhurt.
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I'm sure it was in every WWII fighter manual and flight class too -- "If you overshoot your target, shut off your engine... it'll help you slow down faster."
Do you have documentation that states that? Or, are you making the "statement" in an attempt to support your idea? Using "flying" skills will help you slow down faster.
By the way, shut down the engine in flight is not an ACM maneuver. It, however, demonstrates extremely poor judgement as a pilot.
A bit off topic...
I knew of an instructor who used to simulate engine outs with his students by leaning the mixture until the engine cut out. One time, him and his student were practicing landing in a field. At about 500', the instructor put the mixture back to full rich to start a climbout, but the engine didn't come back to life. They made a real forced landing in the field. Instructor and student were unhurt.
A perfect example why you don't play games with your normally operating engine and the only time you shut it down is after landing, parked in the chocks.
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Uh.... Puma? It was sarcasm...
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I don't doubt that you trust him and that he is correct. I'm trying to figure out how it's physically possible.
I'm having hard time understand why that would happen.
Could you explain why that happens?
Vapor lock occurs when fuel in the injection lines vaporizes. For that to happen you have to have some heat -- vapor locks most commonly occur on a hot day after the engine is shut down. The lack of cooling air moving thru the cowl allows the fuel lines to heat up, fuel boils/vaporizes and voila! it won't start when you finish lunch.
In Hitech's case the engine is hot, he's on the ground taxiing so little to no cooling air and at idle you're moving very little fuel through the lines. It doesn't take much to disrupt the correct fuel/air mixture.
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In AH there are 'features' in the game that make restarting your engine a no-penalty thing in both GV's and Airplanes... I'm simply saying either correct the 'feature' or make it so your desperation move is just that... and you damn well better hope your engine starts back up.
You're trying to solve a problem that isn't a problem. Probably all of 1-2 people in this game (player base in the 10,000's no doubt) toggle engine in fights. Some do it because they don't have a good throttle on their stick, and they say it's how they chop throttle. Better than full power 100% of the time, right?
You're really taking off on this idea that toggling the engine off is breaking the game somehow... but it's not. It really isn't. You want to model in human error, well howabout the pilot scrambling to get into the cockpit forgot his maps? No clipboard for you! How about an armorer screwed up and the first cannon round out of your guns plugs the barrel and the next one starts a chain reaction that blows your wing off, through no fault of your own. Whether you want complex engine management or not, that's another topic. But random failures? HTC doesn't do that, and for good reason.
You've suggested a punitive measure against folks that are not to blame. It does nothing to help and only annoys people trying to fly and fight. I would suggest turning your problem-solving juices to the larger problems we have in-game.
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Uh.... Puma? It was sarcasm...
Uh......Krusty? Relax and don't fall off your perch.
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In that case it would be happening all the time. Since it doesn't than it must not be the case.
Basic physics dude.
I deal with vapor lock issues when designing engine management systems.
My daily driver car's engine is known to vapor lock so nissan equipped it with a blower that blows across the injectors for 15 minutes after you switch the car off.
Later nissan turbo Zs were equipped with "dual feed injectors" that had top and side inlets which allowed the fuel pushed past the regulator to flow through the injectors which cooled them rather than just the rails before them.....which left them hot.
These cars operate with 35 psi fuel pressure at idle and still boil the fuel.
Imagine how much less heat you need to boil fuel at atmospheric pressure.
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A perfect example why you don't play games with your normally operating engine and the only time you shut it down is after landing, parked in the chocks.
Agreed. I can understand wanting to create a good simulation, but that's taking more risk than necessary, imo.
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Why is there any advantage to cutting the engine vs throttle back? Both have the same effect unless the props can feather.
HiTech
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Why is there any advantage to cutting the engine vs throttle back? Both have the same effect unless the props can feather.
HiTech
Controller setup? For some players it may be faster or easier to just push a button, particularly if they only fly with full power or no power.
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Controller setup? For some players it may be faster or easier to just push a button, particularly if they only fly with full power or no power.
There was a brief period before I got my HOTAS where I had my stick on the right, and had full throttle and no throttle mapped on a couple keys on my keyboard. Not in AH though. Some people do it. If I'd have thought of it, I could've just used E for one button achieving the same functionality...
Wiley.
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You're trying to solve a problem that isn't a problem. Probably all of 1-2 people in this game (player base in the 10,000's no doubt) toggle engine in fights. Some do it because they don't have a good throttle on their stick, and they say it's how they chop throttle. Better than full power 100% of the time, right?
You're really taking off on this idea that toggling the engine off is breaking the game somehow... but it's not. It really isn't. You want to model in human error, well howabout the pilot scrambling to get into the cockpit forgot his maps? No clipboard for you! How about an armorer screwed up and the first cannon round out of your guns plugs the barrel and the next one starts a chain reaction that blows your wing off, through no fault of your own. Whether you want complex engine management or not, that's another topic. But random failures? HTC doesn't do that, and for good reason.
You've suggested a punitive measure against folks that are not to blame. It does nothing to help and only annoys people trying to fly and fight. I would suggest turning your problem-solving juices to the larger problems we have in-game.
I have... and am looking for a new game. :aok
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Vapor lock occurs when fuel in the injection lines vaporizes. For that to happen you have to have some heat -- vapor locks most commonly occur on a hot day after the engine is shut down. The lack of cooling air moving thru the cowl allows the fuel lines to heat up, fuel boils/vaporizes and voila! it won't start when you finish lunch.
In Hitech's case the engine is hot, he's on the ground taxiing so little to no cooling air and at idle you're moving very little fuel through the lines. It doesn't take much to disrupt the correct fuel/air mixture.
That's exactly the way I understand it. The problem is that when the engine is already on (and not idling) your fuel lines are pressurized, therefore there should not be any extra room. Because there is no extra room the gas can not form as in order for the fuel to evaporate it would need to expand.
And I think I just understood why you had that engine failure. As you decreased power to descend the fuel pressure in your fuel lines dropped and created room for the fuel to evaporate. Causing gas baubles that would later cause an engine failure.
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post deleted
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A bit off topic...
I knew of an instructor who used to simulate engine outs with his students by leaning the mixture until the engine cut out. One time, him and his student were practicing landing in a field. At about 500', the instructor put the mixture back to full rich to start a climbout, but the engine didn't come back to life. They made a real forced landing in the field. Instructor and student were unhurt.
I personally would not do it (if I have only one engine) but I heard about plenty of instructors that do it to provide more realistic training. Yes it's riskier but it would give the student more experience that might come in handy.
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Why is there any advantage to cutting the engine vs throttle back? Both have the same effect unless the props can feather.
HiTech
I can understand why people do it, it's stupid though. Even when the engine is idling the prop still produces some thrust. Theoretically turning the engine off would decrease that thrust and you'd slow down faster, but what they don't understand is that it makes such minor difference that there is no point to it.
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I can understand why people do it, it's stupid though. Even when the engine is idling the prop still produces some thrust. Theoretically turning the engine off would decrease that thrust and you'd slow down faster, but what they don't understand is that it makes such minor difference that there is no point to it.
one thing is real life the other is what happens in the game. it may not be the same thing for the sake of not wasting coading time for no reason.
when the engine is turns on some people thing about gas flowing, spark plugs... etc ( am not a pilot so i dont know how it goes) but it could be that it just engine starts and it it takes a while to go full throttle while in the ground, however up in the air it may or may not be the same thing.
of course I dont know either how the game is coaded or how the engine works in real life. but one thing I know for sure is this. I seldom see anybody turning the engine off while in flight. and actually the only time i seen it down in past couple of months was while doing a memorial flight in the TA.
so I dont really see point to fix something that either isnt a problem or doesnt happen ofter enough to fix anything. or it may go of the way of the other "problem" that got fixed. people turning off engine sound so they can hear other planes. surround sound doesnt sound as awesome as it did before.
semp
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one thing is real life the other is what happens in the game. it may not be the same thing for the sake of not wasting coading time for no reason.
when the engine is turns on some people thing about gas flowing, spark plugs... etc ( am not a pilot so i dont know how it goes) but it could be that it just engine starts and it it takes a while to go full throttle while in the ground, however up in the air it may or may not be the same thing.
If the prop is still spinning it would be easier to start the engine in air. But there is a possibility that the engine will not start so you don't want to turn it off mid flight.
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I can understand why people do it, it's stupid though. Even when the engine is idling the prop still produces some thrust. Theoretically turning the engine off would decrease that thrust and you'd slow down faster, but what they don't understand is that it makes such minor difference that there is no point to it.
With any speed at all an idling (turning) engine will provide more drag than a shutdown (prop stopped) engine will. Both in game and real life. In game if you're trying to produce as much drag as possible shutting the engine off is not what you want to do if the prop stops.
When I see an opponent do this during a fight I relax a small bit because I realize my opponent either doesn't have a throttle OR doesn't fully understand flight. Either way it's an advantage for me.
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Controller setup? For some players it may be faster or easier to just push a button, particularly if they only fly with full power or no power.
If a player only uses full or no power would he really be that effective at dogfighting?
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With any speed at all an idling (turning) engine will provide more drag than a shutdown (prop stopped) engine will. Both in game and real life. In game if you're trying to produce as much drag as possible shutting the engine off is not what you want to do if the prop stops.
Yeah but that's only if you feather the prop after turning the engine off.
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A spinning prop still creates more drag than one stopped....even when not feathered.
This is also modeled in game.
Check your glide in a typhoon with and without prop stopped.
If you've got enough altitude, it pays off to stop the prop.
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A spinning prop still creates more drag than one stopped....even when not feathered.
This is also modeled in game.
Check your glide in a typhoon with and without prop stopped.
You do realize we discussed this more than ones already with you participating in those threads, right?
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You need to produce this topic or forget referencing it.
I am correct about the prop. and drag.
If you want, you can discuss your theory at the air racing forums with the guys who build and race the unlimiteds.
http://www.aafo.com/hangartalk/forumdisplay.php?f=2
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You need to produce this topic or forget referencing it.
I am correct about the prop. and drag.
If you want, you can discuss your theory at the air racing forums with the guys who build and race the unlimiteds.
http://www.aafo.com/hangartalk/forumdisplay.php?f=2
I never said that your wrong, I agree with what you said.
It just seems like we discussed this already.
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Yeah but that's only if you feather the prop after turning the engine off.
No, a stopped prop is less drag than a windmilling prop. Doesn't matter if it's feathered or not.
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No, a stopped prop is less drag than a windmilling prop. Doesn't matter if it's feathered or not.
Just re-read your post, missed the "prop stopped part".
So as we discussed before you would need to slow down to nearly your stall speed or slower to stop the prop. If you turn the engine off to slow down faster than your probably going 400+, at that speed your prop will not stop. So given that prop is not stopped (which it will not be) the prop will provide more drag with the engine off than idling.
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Icepac,
Sorry for being an @$s didn't realize why your were saying that. Just noticed that Colmbo was talking about a stopped prop.
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Hamilton standard props go to the finest pitch available when no oil pressure is present.
The reason for this is..... if the prop governor system experiences a loss of oil pressure......but your engine still has oil pressure, you still have a setting that generates thrust instead of beating the air with feathered blades.
Aeroproducts props have thier own oil system separate from the engine and possibly an accumulator that will allow feathering after an engine failure but you had better be quick with it.
Curtis electric props are electric and will hold the position they were last set if you lose power.
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Curtis electric props are electric and will hold the position they were last set if you lose power.
Hope the planes that use those have a reliable electrical system...