Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Shuffler on March 28, 2012, 10:13:28 AM
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At first I thought... why did they not arrest this guy? After reading some of the info in the police/FBI report and seeing updated background info on both individuals along with recent pics of both..... I now realize it is all blown up because of poor reporting.
They post the best pics of Trayvon as a child and the worst of Zimmerman. Total plot to spin the facts.
The so called News pics and the recent pics can be seen here...... http://www.waltonandjohnson.com/showarchives.html?n_id=2394 (http://www.waltonandjohnson.com/showarchives.html?n_id=2394)
Hopefully justice will prevail in the end.
I now believe Zimmerman acted in self defense..... only time will tell.
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I agree. There is clearly an agenda at work.
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I hope the truth is found out either way it goes. Unfortunately, a portion of the population will not believe it one way or the other.
We don't normally watch the evening news, but we caught it last night and my wife started spouting off about how Zimmerman shot him in cold blood after hunting and following him.
I told her to quit relying on the news and research other sources to get a better picture of what really happened. She (like many others)won't, and that is part of the problem with this whole blown out of proportion case.
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I do not travel through gated communities at night wearing a hooded sweatshirt with the hood up, even if I was a resident of said community.
I haven't been shot, yet.
Seems to have worked for me. :aok
You know that this thread will only turn into a pissing contest that will get locked...
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you can also thank tweeter and facebook for all the twisting of the story and the public's opinions have already found Zimmerman Guilty, also HLN's Nancy Graces rantings of why why why agenda.
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Nacy Grace is a complete and utter joke come to think of it all of America's news leaders are complete bull(sih). Just makes me angry they care more of ratings then truth in reporting. Remember her(NG) "reporting" of the uke lacrosse thing? They werre guilty according to her and not once after it all proved to be a bs case did she apologise
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So far the little known facts point to it being a tragic series of unfortunate events.
The guy walking through a community wearing a hoodie (sorry, in Florida you do not wear a hoodie when its raining and the day that this happened it was freaking HOT. I know, Sanford is only 30 minutes away from where I live) at late hours of the evening. Allegedly 'walking home' (you do not walk through gated communities to get home ... unless you live there) and was confronted by the guy who was responsible for watching out for the community's safety.
The man called 911 and yes he was asked not to approach the kid but knowing how slow or nonexistent police response is to anything unless actual violence or crime has happened the man went and verbally engaged the kid.
What happened then we dont know. The kids GF said she heard them arguing and then the phone went out. The man says the kid jumped him and went for his gun. Apparently the man did not draw the weapon..the kid saw it on him and seems to have made a go for it.
Best guess is the kid panicked for whatever reason and thought his best option was to get the gun from the man.
Was he there to deal/buy drugs...or just passing by and this happened... dont know. The media sure nabbed onto the racial murder thing pretty fast and how even the president involves himself in these matters is beyond silly.
The court will decide what happened. Even if he is innocent he will have a very hard time from now on. He'll be in the media-created hate list in the top 10 and just below casey anthony.
Come to think of it.. wow Orlando does seem to be creating a lot of these.... :O
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Better to be judged by twelve than carryed by six.......
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As usual the radicals are race baiting. The Media's agenda is against anyone with a gun. The New Black Panthers party put a bounty on Zimmermans head and no one blinks an eye. :headscratch:
We are (or were) a nation of laws. They should be arrested for terroristic threats. (My Neighbor was for telling his Daughters Boyfriend "I'll kill you if you hurt her".
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It seems to be the media is hellbent on trying this issue in the press.
What surprises me the most is the lack of action against people openly calling for bounties.
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Better to be judged by twelve than carryed by six.......
^THIS^
But as previously stated, the facts of the case no longer matter. The angry mob wants blood, and they do not care about the truth or the law.
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It's a mess now. There's a whole lot of WTF in the events and how it was handled.
It appears that Zimmerman instigated the entire thing by following Treyon, and there hasn't been a good explanation as to why he got out of his vehicle. He said he didn't know the address, yet he was in his complex -- BS meter goes up there.
Zimmerman has a past with two assaults and batteries in it, with the Felony Battery on a Police Officer dropped down to a misdemeanor. The other was a charge of Domestic Violence.
Treyon's background is now coming to light, and he was certainly no Saint. I think he and Zimmerman got into a verbal confrontation, and then he suckerpunched Zimmerman, continuing on to beat the snot out of him. Zimmerman then shot him.
The racist angle is valid. There's been racism up there for a long time, and the history of Zimmerman's 911 calls was showing he was suspect of Black folks. However, in the end, I think the problem lies with the police department.
The whole bandwagon of people Tweeting, posting pictures of themselves wearing hoodies, Black Panthers putting out a bounty on Zimmerman -- that's crossing the line. It won't matter if the facts show that Zimmerman did shoot in self defense, as the goal of turning it into a racially motivated act.
And then, with all of the media coverage of this, playing the race card, none of the news outlets cover something serious when it's black hurting white, in a blatant racist attack:
http://articles.nydailynews.com/2012-03-04/news/31122324_1_white-boy-fire-tv-station
Where is the outrage here? The lack of it pisses me off. I guess the kid didn't die, so the coverage is not as important.
For what it's worth, I 'blame' Zimmerman, though I don't think it was an intentional homicide.
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News is a ratings game.
I'm going to wait for all the facts to come out before I form an opinion but I'm always weary of the armed, self appointed busy body who calls the police all the time to report suspicious people. I'm also having trouble getting past the fact that law enforcement told him not to confront the kid in the hoodie.
John Stewart definitely has the best coverage out of anyone on this incident.
Where I live you can legally shoot someone if they're a threat and armed, but they have to be inside your house if you want to shoot them while they're unarmed. This probably effects my point of view some.
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Why do you assume he suckerpunched Zimmerman??
My brain assumes Zimmerman at some point put his hands on Trayvon and got a fist for a reaction.
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My gut points to a convergence of two idiots. Now it's damn the facts and truth, full speed ahead with bs agendas , media smoke and mirrors, and let the race cards fly.
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Zimmerman should have stayed in the car like he was told to and this whole thing would have been moot.
shamus
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My thoughts?
Let the law handle it.
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Zimmerman should have stayed in the car like he was told to and this whole thing would have been moot.
shamus
Agreed, dude is going to jail
He put himself in danger, instigating a confrontation after the 911 dispatcher told him to stay put
Good luck claiming self defense after you follow a guy with the intent to harrass him
Also, the eye witness reports of Zimmerman having his head slammed on the concrete are almist certainly bogus...head wounds bleed like crazy, even if it's just a minor cut to the scalp...there was no evidence of Zimmerman's blood being everywhere and he received no.medical attention :noid
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I do not travel through gated communities at night wearing a hooded sweatshirt with the hood up, even if I was a resident of said community.
I haven't been shot, yet.
Seems to have worked for me. :aok
You know that this thread will only turn into a pissing contest that will get locked...
I'm hoping for a decent discussion. I know it's a long shot but hoping.
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I don't know any facts, mainly because we aren't geting them.
What I do know is that this tragedy is being used by so many for personalor political gain. The million dollar bounty on Zimmerman is disgusting and how it isn't getting more condemnation is mind boggleing. I recently read that mom is trying to score by copyrighting her sons name... These people should be ashamed of themselves.
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I'm going to wait for all the facts to come out before I form an opinion but I'm always weary of the armed, self appointed busy body who calls the police all the time to report suspicious people.
Zimmerman was on the neighborhood watch team. Nothing stated so far said he calls the law all the time.
I'm also having trouble getting past the fact that law enforcement told him not to confront the kid in the hoodie.
Law enforcement did not tell him to not confront martin, who was 17. The 911 operator stated that and it is not required that you follow their direction.
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Why do you assume he suckerpunched Zimmerman??
My brain assumes Zimmerman at some point put his hands on Trayvon and got a fist for a reaction.
The police report that was passed on to the FBI stated the kid came back to zimmerman as he was going back to his vehicle. Martin punched him one time and knocked him down. He then jumped on top of him and started beating zimmerman's head on the ground. Zimmerman was screaming for help.
That is what has been leaked and confirmed by the local police there in Florida.
It really is a screw up mess.
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Also, the eye witness reports of Zimmerman having his head slammed on the concrete are almist certainly bogus...head wounds bleed like crazy, even if it's just a minor cut to the scalp...there was no evidence of Zimmerman's blood being everywhere and he received no.medical attention :noid
Police report says the back of Zimmerman's head was bloody. Zimmerman was treated at the hospital.... he also had a broken nose.
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well out of all of this, the funniest thing is the bp bounty.....wonder if the rocket scientist in that camp even realized before spouting off at the mouth that they have just now made their entire organization open targets for anti-terrorist police organizations? they have just given all the probable cause needed in any federal court to support warrants to search and seize any and all materials regarding the organization and any and all weapons held by any of its members. if something does happen to zimmerman then the leaders of the bp will be charged with capital murder and a multitude of other federal felonies......
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Why do you assume he suckerpunched Zimmerman??
My brain assumes Zimmerman at some point put his hands on Trayvon and got a fist for a reaction.
Witnesses and his report to the police stated that Treyon hit him from behind.
From the police report:
"While I was in such close contact with Zimmerman, I could observe that his back appeared to be wet and was covered in grass, as if he had been laying on his back on the ground. Zimmerman was also bleeding from the nose and back of his head."
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My only opinion on any of this is this case is tragic and it never had to happen. Both parties could have approached it differently, no matter what happend. And now one more young child is dead, and one more person has caused himself immense internal pain, and two more families have lost those loved ones in different ways.
The only ones who will be able to properly call this case will be in court where hopefully true justice will prevail over mob mentality, if indeed the evidence even causes the case to GET to court.
Or, we can have a travesty of a case like the Casey Anthony thing where they decide to prosecute on the most impossible of charges and then cause a freakout across the nation when they lose the case because of it.
Bob
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Better to be judged by twelve than carryed by six.......
depends on the situation.
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Zimmerman should have stayed in the car like he was told to and this whole thing would have been moot.
shamus
He was not told to stay in the car in the transcript I read. Rather, it was stated that he was not required to follow Martin. Further, supposedly an eye witness puts Zimmerman walking back to his car when he was attacked. Who knows the truth is beyond me.
Again and not directed at you Shamus, I am reserving judgement on the whole thing until the facts are heard. There is simply too much spin and opinions floating around to make an educated decision.
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It was "OK, we don't need you to do that." (In reference to Zimmerman stating he was following Treyvon)
It's a really screwed up mess.
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It's a really screwed up mess.
/thread
If anyone teaches their kids ONE thing out of this fiasco, please let it be that there's two sides to every story, and then there's the truth.
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It is a screwed up mess and I feel there will be a bit of blame to go all around.
I bet if Zimmerman walks away from this, the rioting will be nationwide.
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It is a screwed up mess and I feel there will be a bit of blame to go all around.
I bet if Zimmerman walks away from this, the rioting will be nationwide.
surprised they have not started yet honestly.
I don't have an opinion because I was not there....
except for my personal beliefs, everyone has the right to live unmolested, IF they are doing no wrong....
as soon as someones actions hurt another, that's when their right to freedom stops....
I still say it should be mandatory for all Americans to carry guns.
all drugs should be legal (no one has the right to tell you what to do with your body)
ALL government officials, get 2 years in only.
no more paying them after they are out of office.
ALL Americans must have to years in the Government.
drivers Ed should start in the 4th grade.
ALL police officers are detectives and detecting crimes not sitting on the highways.
so many more.......
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In 2007 my Wife called me and told me our house had just been robbed while she was at the store for maybe 45 minutes. She called 911 and left the house in case the burglar was still there. I drove home from work, 30 minutes away and "The Law" still had not shown up. We had to call again and maybe an hour later one Officer arrived.
I don't know what may have happened if I had to confront the criminal but I would defend myself and my family with deadly force if necessary.
The people have a right to defend their communities and themselves. Zimmerman had every right under Fla. Law to be in his "Gated Community" and try to stop the crime that plagued the area.
The Police only arrive to pick up the pieces
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It is a screwed up mess and I feel there will be a bit of blame to go all around.
I bet if Zimmerman walks away from this, the rioting will be nationwide.
Already happening. A group of 80+ students stormed a Walgreens and trashed the place and, no joke, made a b-line for the skittles. One of the kids there said it was to "honor Trayvon..." My brain hurts from trying to figure some of these people out.
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Already happening. A group of 80+ students stormed a Walgreens and trashed the place and, no joke, made a b-line for the skittles. One of the kids there said it was to "honor Trayvon..." My brain hurts from trying to figure some of these people out.
There are a lot of idiots in the world today... as I always say.. they are a protected species.
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surprised they have not started yet honestly.
ALL government officials, get 2 years in only.
no more paying them after they are out of office.
2 years only? They already take 1 year to "move in and settle" then immediatly go into what lobbist can I placate(below -e) now, so they pay me to be a "consultant" later mode which would be worse with your other idea I quoted.
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The people have a right to defend their communities and themselves. Zimmerman had every right under Fla. Law to be in his "Gated Community" and try to stop the crime that plagued the area.
Actually, he had no authority to do anything except follow the person and watch him.
Florida law doesn't allow us to behave like police. It allows us to defend ourselves against great bodily harm or the fear of death. It's very accomodating for us that will defend ourselves.
The kid didn't commit a crime, nor was a crime committed in that area when Zimmerman called 911. He simply had suspicions.
Calling 911 was the right thing to do in that case. Getting himself into a physical confrontation, however it happened, was not the thing to do. He left his vehicle.
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My brain hurts from trying to figure some of these people out.
I quit trying years ago.
What do I think of all of this?
My answer is: "Who cares?"
One idiot killed another idiot. It happens all the time. I won't be getting my blood pressure up over the whole thing.
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I do not travel through gated communities at night wearing a hooded sweatshirt with the hood up, even if I was a resident of said community.
I haven't been shot, yet.
Seems to have worked for me. :aok
You know that this thread will only turn into a pissing contest that will get locked...
They say it was raining that night which is why his hood was up.
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Zimmerman should have stayed in the car like he was told to and this whole thing would have been moot.
shamus
Good point. To bad that has no bearing on why George got pummeled and trayvon got shot. The latest bits of news is saying that George went back to the car and trayvon followed him and confronted him, then assaulted him by decking him, then hopping on top of him once he was on the ground, then slamming his head in to the concrete, then George fired. We'll see how the details emerge and I'll bet anyone $100 that once (or even if) George is cleared there will be riots in FL (and/or elsewhere), and there will be "public outcry" as termed by the media.
I will wait to hear the FINAL and official testimony before I place blame anywhere, but the situation currently reeks of hypocrisy, double standards, and a feast for opportunist. This was no more racial than if George would have been black. This is more about a "suedo-do'gooder" going over-board and a not-so-innocent nor model citizen getting violent. Obviously, the Black Panthers and other POS groups have taken this WAY too far, but they have their agenda. The same goes for that dipstick Spike Lee twittering a supposed address for George so his "followers" could peacefully protest (i.e.: vandalize, thieve, and otherwise threaten the well-being of the accused). That proves right there that Spike Lee is a bigot and a fool, AND should be dealt a harsh warning for trying to incite violence and unrest. The rrrrevends Jesse and Al need to shut their pie holes, they reek every time they open their mouths. The absolute worst of all the actions is the parents of trayvon are trying to trademark the name of the deceased!!! OMG!!! Shame on them!!! Maybe I should hurry up and trademark a "Karma's a B!*&% (OJ), or how about "Nicole Simpson has been avenged!"
May trayvon RIP, his death is a tragedy no doubt. But this has gotten WAY out of hand.
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I think the most illuminating statement on this whole situation thus far is reading and hearing media discuss Zimmerman as a "white-Hispanic." In following demographic issues to include a United States Supreme Court Case in 2001 I have never heard of a "white-Hispanic." Maybe it's there and the fact I've never heard of it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I've heard of non-white, Hispanic but never the inverse.
To see this tells me we have a 'race card' being played. This is attempting to create race tensions. It fits a preconceived narrative and is horrible. The moment I heard this term I knew all additional information was going to be questionable.
Bad, bad, bad...
Boo
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Skittles and Ice Tea - an innocent sweet boy, yet his mother just put in a patient for his name - as he says "so nobody can benefit for money" yet its strictly put in her name, instead most in this situation put it in a non-profit foundation name.
She's going to bankroll this till it ends, and sadly I was talking a lawyer friend of mine and its legal to do so.
In my personal opinion the Media blew this so far out of the water its now becoming a race war, everyone is just begging to call zimmerman "white" instead of "hispanic" and its truly pathetic.
As I kept saying since day one, lets see the facts and let them explain it, now the facts are coming out I can bet quite a few people are backing off from their initial stand point.
Some people like Jesse Jackson just need a small boost to get back into the game, reality is there is racism every where in every country. American has a bit more diversity which makes it even more uneasy.
As for the Zimmerman case goes, Facts started out he was guilty as hell by the Media - however since the investigation released some information, its truly going against Trayvon being an innocent skittles boy.
As for the mother, she better think pretty damn straight about what she does with the money she's going to bankroll off this, and I'm going to bet she will pocket some of it.
In reality its a piss poor situation for everyone, reminding us racism just needs a small innocent to spark riots.
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funny thing....a BLACK hispanic shot a white police officer here just a couple days ago.......im still awaiting ob*&^'s comments on the matter....got a feeling i shouldnt be holding my breath...
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My gut points to a convergence of two idiots. Now it's damn the facts and truth, full speed ahead with bs agendas , media smoke and mirrors, and let the race cards fly.
We may have a winner.
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im in college, and the middle of South Dakota no less, i gave up on news a long time ago, i was just wondering if you guys could give me some reading material on the case, im interested in what will turn up
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Skittles and Ice Tea - an innocent sweet boy, yet his mother just put in a patient for his name - as he says "so nobody can benefit for money" yet its strictly put in her name, instead most in this situation put it in a non-profit foundation name.
She's going to bankroll this till it ends, and sadly I was talking a lawyer friend of mine and its legal to do so.
In my personal opinion the Media blew this so far out of the water its now becoming a race war, everyone is just begging to call zimmerman "white" instead of "hispanic" and its truly pathetic.
As I kept saying since day one, lets see the facts and let them explain it, now the facts are coming out I can bet quite a few people are backing off from their initial stand point.
Some people like Jesse Jackson just need a small boost to get back into the game, reality is there is racism every where in every country. American has a bit more diversity which makes it even more uneasy.
As for the Zimmerman case goes, Facts started out he was guilty as hell by the Media - however since the investigation released some information, its truly going against Trayvon being an innocent skittles boy.
As for the mother, she better think pretty damn straight about what she does with the money she's going to bankroll off this, and I'm going to bet she will pocket some of it.
In reality its a piss poor situation for everyone, reminding us racism just needs a small innocent to spark riots.
Personally this has a lifetime movie written all over it.
Mom goes and trademarks a name within a week of the killing, cha ching, Panthers throw a bounty all over it, Dad seems indifferent, and no real facts have been corroborated.
Prediction here is, Zimmerman gets arrested, tried, released, and we get another Rodney King episode. If I were a Juror based on current statements, I couldn't convict without a reasonable doubt.
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I'm trying really hard not to pass judgement because I don't know all the facts, but I will say this.
As a concealed carrier. If I perceive someone as a threat (enough to call 911), I will go out of my way to avoid any confrontation. If I got out of the vehicle to confront said person, I can no longer claim lethal self-defense.
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Police report says the back of Zimmerman's head was bloody. Zimmerman was treated at the hospital.... he also had a broken nose.
yeah it sure looks like it :rolleyes:
http://abcnews.go.com/US/video/george-zimmerman-police-surveillance-16024475
doesn't look at all like he had recently been battered to me *shrug*
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Leeeeeeeeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrrr rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrroooooooooo ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy yyyyy
Jeeennnnnnnnnnnkkkiiiiiiiiiii iinnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnsssss sssssssssssssssssssssssssssss ssssssssssssssssss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:bhead
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Actually, he had no authority to do anything except follow the person and watch him.
Florida law doesn't allow us to behave like police. It allows us to defend ourselves against great bodily harm or the fear of death. It's very accomodating for us that will defend ourselves.
The kid didn't commit a crime, nor was a crime committed in that area when Zimmerman called 911. He simply had suspicions.
Calling 911 was the right thing to do in that case. Getting himself into a physical confrontation, however it happened, was not the thing to do. He left his vehicle.
This.
Zimmerman was the adult. He didn't act like one. The kid was going where he was supposed to go and had a right to be in that gated community as well. The second Zimmerman ignored the 911 dispatcher's direction to not follow the kid, he set the wheels in motion. That he's carrying a gun in his gated community makes no sense either. Screams of wannabe cop.
I'm a bit curious when the 17 year old kid became less then a 'model citizen." These comments are based on what? That he got suspended for pot residue in a plastic bag? If that's it, then this thread is full of less then model citizens. I smoked pot at 17 at school a couple times. And I don't do any of that kind of stuff and would have been considered squeaky clean at 17. Since when did that make a kid more then a kid?
Real simple. Zimmerman calls the cops, lets them do their job, and the story is never a story. The adult blew it.
My youngest wears hoodies all the time. I do often as well. Are folks suggesting my little guy will have to give them up for fear of looking suspicious when he gets older?
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/MightyMatt-1.jpg)
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It is natural for a person to make assumptions when an armed person shoots an unarmed person, regardless.
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I'm trying really hard not to pass judgement because I don't know all the facts, but I will say this.
As a concealed carrier. If I perceive someone as a threat (enough to call 911), I will go out of my way to avoid any confrontation. If I got out of the vehicle to confront said person, I can no longer claim lethal self-defense.
This may have happened I don't know, but I read from zimmerman's leaked testimony that he followed Trayvon, and lost him. Then, was walking back to his car and Trayvon followed him, confronted him, and then there was a fight. Who started the fight? My biased gut says it was Trayvon, but that will be left up to eye witness account and evidence (if there is any).
I find it absolutely despicable of the left media to paint this story the way they want it to be viewed. They show a terrible looking mugshot of Zimmerman from who knows when, and a picture of a young 13 year old innocent looking Trayvon Martin. They then paint a picture of an innocent kid skipping down the street whistling with coke and skittles in hand and a blood thirsty racist vigilante hunting him down gun in hand and executing him for being black. Seriously, how low can they stoop to slant a story so badly? The only "other side" coverage I have seen has been from conservative news outlets, so this story is obviously pushing some sort of liberal agenda. They've essentially ruined a man's life without any facts on the table. Every single neighbor or friend of Zimmerman has nothing but good things to say about him; how he has friends of various race, tutors and mentors children of various race, goes out of his way to help people in his community, just a good person in general. Not what the media would have you believe, no ma'am.
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And by carrying the gun, the 'neighbor hood watch captain' put himself in a position to use it. Why did he need to carry it at all if he wasn't envisioning himself playing 'cop'. He's in a vehicle, spots a someone who he describes as suspicious and possibly on drugs. OK he's made his call, he's safe, and the cops should be otw. Where did the gun come into this thing unless the adult saw himself playing cop? And indication he's been shot at in that gated community? Why the gun at all? He was safe, the kid was no threat other then the one the adult conjured up in his head.
No excuse for the adult not being the adult.
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This.
Zimmerman was the adult. He didn't act like one. The kid was going where he was supposed to go and had a right to be in that gated community as well. The second Zimmerman ignored the 911 dispatcher's direction to not follow the kid, he set the wheels in motion. That he's carrying a gun in his gated community makes no sense either. Screams of wannabe cop.
I'm a bit curious when the 17 year old kid became less then a 'model citizen." These comments are based on what? That he got suspended for pot residue in a plastic bag? If that's it, then this thread is full of less then model citizens. I smoked pot at 17 at school a couple times. And I don't do any of that kind of stuff and would have been considered squeaky clean at 17. Since when did that make a kid more then a kid?
Real simple. Zimmerman calls the cops, lets them do their job, and the story is never a story. The adult blew it.
My youngest wears hoodies all the time. I do often as well. Are folks suggesting my little guy will have to give them up for fear of looking suspicious when he gets older?
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/MightyMatt-1.jpg)
Just curious, what's the difference between a 19 year old slowly walking and looking at houses and a 17 year old kid slowly walking and looking at houses?
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Just curious, what's the difference between a 19 year old slowly walking and looking at houses and a 17 year old kid slowly walking and looking at houses?
About two years. Whats the difference between a 39 year old man and a 17 year old kid. A whole lot. You more mature and aware of how things work now Grizz then when you were 17? To clarify it further. I turned 40 when my oldest son was 17. At no point was I not accountable for how he acted. Never was it the other way around.
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When will ppl stop feeling and start thinking?
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About two years. Whats the difference between a 39 year old man and a 17 year old kid. A whole lot. You more mature and aware of how things work now Grizz then when you were 17? To clarify it further. I turned 40 when my oldest son was 17. At no point was I not accountable for how he acted. Never was it the other way around.
Oh ok ;)
My point was, when a 17 yr old (almost 18) is suspiciously walking down the street like a goon you don't exactly know how old he is until you see his license. And you also don't necessarily care exactly how many days away from their 18th birthday a suspicious person is when they blindside you, slam your face into the concrete, and pummel the back of your head with repeated haymakers. Well that's what zimmerman, his injuries, and a key witness say anyways. [sarcasm] The media probably has a better idea of what happened though. [/sarcasm]
Very surprised on your stance on this. ;)
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Dan is either oblivious to the fact (or ignoring it) that the neighborhood where this transpired has recently been riddled with a rash of crimes commited by young/teen black males, thus the reason for the increased neighborhood watch. This is, of course, according to over a half dozen different reports from various media outlets, I do not know since I do not live there, I defer to their reports.
Did Zimmerman "racially profile" Martin? Sure, he probably did. He saw a person he did not recognize in the neighborhood, felt there was need for further investigation, and followed. Kinda what a "night watchman" does.
He then found himself confronted by, and attacked by, Trayvon.
Just so things are clear, Trayvon was not the victim here, IMHO Zimmerman was. The reality here is Trayvon was the attacker, who apparently was PO'd that some guy was following him, so he decided to teach him a lesson when he tried to go back to his car. What Martin didn't know is the guy whom he was trying to teach a lesson to happened to be armed.
Net result? One thug dead, one guy's life ruined, race pimps get in spotlight again and try to stay relevant.
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Oh ok ;)
My point was, when a 17 yr old (almost 18) is suspiciously walking down the street like a goon you don't exactly know how old he is until you see his license. And you also don't necessarily care exactly how many days away from their 18th birthday a suspicious person is when they blindside you, slam your face into the concrete, and pummel the back of your head with repeated haymakers. Well that's what zimmerman, his injuries, and a key witness say anyways. [sarcasm] The media probably has a better idea of what happened though. [/sarcasm]
Very surprised on your stance on this. ;)
Grizz, how does a goon walk? The kid can't speak for what happened. None of it changes the fact that the adult, ignored direction from the 911 dispatcher, and was carrying a gun. The adults are supposed to be smart enough to make the right decision. We aren't so sure that a 17 year old will make the best ones or we'd cut them loose earlier. Should we discuss 'fight or flight' responses? At what point was Zimmerman 'trapped'? He was in a car, had a gun and was bigger then the kid. At what point did the kid feel 'trapped'. Bigger adult, in a car, gets out of car and is following him.
Again, Zimmerman held all the cards and as the adult should have made the better decision. He didn't and a kid died, and his families lives and Zimmerman's families lives are never going to be the same. If Zimmerman hadn't carried a gun, do you think we'd be having the discussion?
Understand Grizz, I spent 25 years of my adult life working with 'troubled teens'. In the course of it, I was in situations where I had to restrain kids to stop them from hurting other kids or coming after me or another staff. I have no illusions about the innocence of teenagers. There were a number of them I'd like to have taken out back and done away with. But I was the adult, and as such had to act like one whether it felt fair or not.
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Dan is either oblivious to the fact (or ignoring it) that the neighborhood where this transpired has recently been riddled with a rash of crimes commited by young/teen black males, thus the reason for the increased neighborhood watch. This is, of course, according to over a half dozen different reports from various media outlets, I do not know since I do not live there, I defer to their reports.
Did Zimmerman "racially profile" Martin? Sure, he probably did. He saw a person he did not recognize in the neighborhood, felt there was need for further investigation, and followed. Kinda what a "night watchman" does.
He then found himself confronted by, and attacked by, Trayvon.
Just so things are clear, Trayvon was not the victim here, IMHO Zimmerman was. The reality here is Trayvon was the attacker, who apparently was PO'd that some guy was following him, so he decided to teach him a lesson when he tried to go back to his car. What Martin didn't know is the guy whom he was trying to teach a lesson to happened to be armed.
Net result? One thug dead, one guy's life ruined, race pimps get in spotlight again and try to stay relevant.
Where did this kid become a Thug? Can you define that for me? What did he do that was "thug". Who identified young black males as the thieves? Were people assaulted, shot at, threatened with guns? What did this kid do that has made him a 'thug"?
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Where did this kid become a Thug? Can you define that for me? What did he do that was "thug". Who identified young black males as the thieves? Were people assaulted, shot at, threatened with guns? What did this kid do that has made him a 'thug"?
As far as I'm concerned, Dan, he became a thug as soon as he followed Zimmerman back to his car and attempted to beat his azz, breaking his nose and (according to witnesses) beating his head into the concrete several times. Because Zimmerman was following him.
You can Monday morning quarterback it all you want, if I were in the unfortunate position of being in Zimmerman's shoes, I would have protected my life just as he did.
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His nose looks unbroken on the police surveillance video and there are zero marks on his head or face
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His nose looks unbroken on the police surveillance video and there are zero marks on his head or face
Realize that they would've cleaned him up before putting him in the squad car.
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As far as I'm concerned, Dan, he became a thug as soon as he followed Zimmerman back to his car and attempted to beat his azz, breaking his nose and (according to witnesses) beating his head into the concrete several times. Because Zimmerman was following him.
You can Monday morning quarterback it all you want, if I were in the unfortunate position of being in Zimmerman's shoes, I would have protected my life just as he did.
Would you have disregarded the 911 dispatcher's comment to not follow him? Does Zimmerman have any accountability in this as the adult?
Did you catch the video of the clean and undamaged Zimmerman being brought into the police station that night btw? Not a mark on him. Not a scratch, grass stain, or blood to be seen.
So lets take this all the way since we're Monday morning QBing. The trigger for the encounter was what? I have no problem with Zimmerman calling the police. I have no problem with him patrolling the neighborhood. I have a huge problem with him carrying a gun, getting out of the car and following the kid despite the 911 folks telling him they didn't need him to do that.
I have no problem with the kid wearing a hoodie and having it over his head. I have no problem with him buying skittles and Iced Tea.
So lets take it further. Zimmerman's friend says Zimmerman was walking back to his car when Martin approached him from behind asking him if he had a problem. Zimmerman turned and told him he had no problem then reached for his phone. So lets play it out.
You are the kid and the guy says there is no problem and reaches for something. Did the kid see the gun? Where was Zimmerman carrying it?
At that point the kid tries to clobber him in fear for his own life. Some stranger with a gun has been following him. Is the kid wrong or was he standing his ground to defend himself?
What do you do in that situation?
Bottom line is the adult, Zimmerman, should have stayed in his car and left the gun at home while letting the PD do their job. His poor judgment ruined many lives.
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Realize that they would've cleaned him up before putting him in the squad car.
Sure, would they have fixed his nose and let him change his shirt though? I guess perhaps, if they took the shirt in as evidence.
Still seems dodgy to me :noid He doesn't look like he was beaten up at all
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Would you have disregarded the 911 dispatcher's comment to not follow him? Does Zimmerman have any accountability in this as the adult?
Just in the name of accuracy, the 911 dispatcher did NOT tell him not to follow him, he (Zimmerman) was told "that is not necessary."
Did you catch the video of the clean and undamaged Zimmerman being brought into the police station that night btw? Not a mark on him. Not a scratch, grass stain, or blood to be seen.
Because of course you, Dan, can tell more from a blurry security cam video taken hours after the fact, from 10-12 feet away, than the officers who inspected him up close and personal within moments of the attack.
Really? I had given you a lot more credit than you apparently deserved.
So lets take this all the way since we're Monday morning QBing. The trigger for the encounter was what? I have no problem with Zimmerman calling the police. I have no problem with him patrolling the neighborhood. I have a huge problem with him carrying a gun, getting out of the car and following the kid despite the 911 folks telling him they didn't need him to do that.
I have no problem with the kid wearing a hoodie and having it over his head. I have no problem with him buying skittles and Iced Tea.
So lets take it further. Zimmerman's friend says Zimmerman was walking back to his car when Martin approached him from behind asking him if he had a problem. Zimmerman turned and told him he had no problem then reached for his phone. So lets play it out.
You are the kid and the guy says there is no problem and reaches for something. Did the kid see the gun? Where was Zimmerman carrying it?
At that point the kid tries to clobber him in fear for his own life. Some stranger with a gun has been following him. Is the kid wrong or was he standing his ground to defend himself?
What do you do in that situation?
Bottom line is, Dan, kid is being followed. Follower loses kid, decides to turn around and go back to his car. Kid is pissed, pursues follower, and proceeds to attempt to kick his azz.
You can believe what you want, I'll take the word of the police, the witnesses, and the victim who made a split second decision when he thought his life was on the line.
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Just in the name of accuracy, the 911 dispatcher did NOT tell him not to follow him, he (Zimmerman) was told "that is not necessary."
Because of course you, Dan, can tell more from a blurry security cam video taken hours after the fact, from 10-12 feet away, than the officers who inspected him up close and personal within moments of the attack.
Really? I had given you a lot more credit than you apparently deserved.
Bottom line is, Dan, kid is being followed. Follower loses kid, decides to turn around and go back to his car. Kid is pissed, pursues follower, and proceeds to attempt to kick his azz.
You can believe what you want, I'll take the word of the police, the witnesses, and the victim who made a split second decision when he thought his life was on the line.
So the word of Zimmerman is truth and the kid has no voice other then the girlfriend on the phone who heard him ask Zimmerman if there was a problem, then the phone goes dead.
I'm not going to argue that there was a fight. Neither you or I know exactly what happened so we're both making guesses. What concerns me is how quick this kid is labeled a thug. I don't know the accuracy of Zimmerman's comment on he was walking back to the car. Even if it's the complete truth, do we then discount the girlfriend on the phone when Martin asked the question? If he was going to assault Zimmerman without warning, why is he on the phone? Why did he even ask a question of Zimmerman?
Zimmerman says he reached for his phone. Did the kid see the gun and react? We don't know. But it's possible. What would you do in that situation? Turn and run? For all I know the kid made a split second decision based on seeing Zimmerman's gun. Maybe he thought he was going to be robbed? It clearly was in a spot where Zimmerman could get it easily as everything suggests he shot the kid point blank in the chest. The same argument that Zimmerman felt threatened applies to Martin too. Stranger with a gun. Hmmm. Not real safe.
So OK the "Thug' fighting for his life has the guy on the ground and the guy shoots him in the chest.
I still come back to the guy with the gun should have stayed in his car and let the PD do their job.
Flip the scenario. You have some kid following you for a while. You turn to ask him if there is a problem. He says no, reaches for something and you see a gun. What would your response be? Lets be honest, it's not real hard to ask what was Zimmerman really reaching for when the kid got near him too.
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Zimmerman, should have stayed in his car and left the gun at home while letting the PD do their job.
Yes... but you are taking for granted that we are getting the whole story of all the events after that 911 call. I agree with you that Zimmerman should of remained part of a neighborhood WATCH (not neighborhood ACTION) and stayed in the car. I don't think any jury will allow the 'stand your ground' defense as he definitely sought out the encounter.
However, I'm not going to convict or judge anyone (either Zimmerman or Martin) with the very limited (and often jaded) amount of information beyond that 911 call. In fact, the 911 call is probably the only reliable source of information I've seen/heard from this case so far. I've seen the press dig up all kinds of information on both of them in the quest for ratings and the battlelines have been drawn socially/racially.
Either way, Trayvon isn't going to be the only casualty after this is over but we still need to let the facts/justice play out, no matter how polarizing it can be.
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you can also thank tweeter and facebook for all the twisting of the story and the public's opinions have already found Zimmerman Guilty, also HLN's Nancy Graces rantings of why why why agenda.
Its Twitter.
#spellingerror
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Yes... but you are taking for granted that we are getting the whole story of all the events after that 911 call. I agree with you that Zimmerman should of remained part of a neighborhood WATCH and stayed in the car. I don't think any jury will allow the 'stand your ground' defense as he definitely sought out the encounter.
However, I'm not going to convict or judge anyone (either Zimmerman or Martin) with the very limited (and often jaded) amount of information beyond that 911 call. In fact, the 911 call is probably the only reliable source of information I've seen/heard from this case so far. I've seen the press dig up all kinds of information on both of them in the quest for ratings and the battlelines have been drawn socially/racially.
Either way, Trayvon isn't going to be the only casualty after this is over but we still need to let the facts/justice play out, no matter how polarizing it can be.
I have no problem with that. I'm angry that the adult didn't use better judgement and that won't change regardless. All the bad decisions made followed his first one to get out of his car and follow the kid while carrying a gun. There is no going back once you pull the trigger.
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His nose looks unbroken on the police surveillance video and there are zero marks on his head or face
The police officers stated in their report that Zimmerman suffered a possible broken nose and a laceration to the back of his head... The video deceptively shown on TV shows Zimmerman after he was treated for his injuries.
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completely biased, terrified of guns, AND a historian....got it :rolleyes:
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completely biased, terrified of guns, AND a historian....got it :rolleyes:
If you are referring to me, it's nice to know you read me so well :aok
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Would you have disregarded the 911 dispatcher's comment to not follow him? Does Zimmerman have any accountability in this as the adult?
Did you catch the video of the clean and undamaged Zimmerman being brought into the police station that night btw? Not a mark on him. Not a scratch, grass stain, or blood to be seen.
So lets take this all the way since we're Monday morning QBing. The trigger for the encounter was what? I have no problem with Zimmerman calling the police. I have no problem with him patrolling the neighborhood. I have a huge problem with him carrying a gun, getting out of the car and following the kid despite the 911 folks telling him they didn't need him to do that.
I have no problem with the kid wearing a hoodie and having it over his head. I have no problem with him buying skittles and Iced Tea.
So lets take it further. Zimmerman's friend says Zimmerman was walking back to his car when Martin approached him from behind asking him if he had a problem. Zimmerman turned and told him he had no problem then reached for his phone. So lets play it out.
You are the kid and the guy says there is no problem and reaches for something. Did the kid see the gun? Where was Zimmerman carrying it?
At that point the kid tries to clobber him in fear for his own life. Some stranger with a gun has been following him. Is the kid wrong or was he standing his ground to defend himself?
What do you do in that situation?
Bottom line is the adult, Zimmerman, should have stayed in his car and left the gun at home while letting the PD do their job. His poor judgment ruined many lives.
Dan, dan... You have too many preconceived notions running here...
Martin was 6'2", about 160 lbs. He didn't look like a kid. Martin's mother released photos of a young boy, when the reality is he was a near full grown young man at the time. He was wearing a hood that limited what one could see of his face. Zimmerman could not have known how old Martin was. It's a safe bet that he figured he was looking at an adult.
911 operators have no authority, and being in a call center somewhere, they cannot always understand circumstances. A 911 operator has zero liability... You can't sue them or the police department. Even if you follow their advice, you still own any consequences. The standard line to a caller is to avoid a situation. That, however, does not make the situation avoidable. Getting out of his car was a judgement call by Zimmerman. Perhaps, in hindsight, not the best decision. Nonetheless, he had no verbal or physical contact with Martin whatsoever. When he returned to his car, he was approached by Martin, from behind. When asked if he had a problem, Zimmerman said no and turned his back on Martin. Clearly, he was attempting to avoid a confrontation. Zimmerman then took out his phone. I speculate that Martin figured Zimmerman was going to call 911, and decided to preempt that. He blind-sided Zimmerman, knocking him to the ground. Again, Martin was not wearing a sign that said, "I'm not quite 18 yet". Martin jumps on Zimmerman and proceeds to pound his head. Zimmerman managed to draw his weapon and fire.
Bad luck for Trayvon.. He made a decision that cost him his life. He could have continued on his way home (assuming he wasn't really casing the neighborhood) and nothing whatsoever would have occurred. Instead, he decided to be a punk and confront Zimmerman. It turns out that this was his final bad decision.
I have zero sympathy for Trayvon Martin. Had he not been smoking weed in school, he would not have been suspended. Had he not been suspended, he would have been in class rather than wandering through a private, gated community (we call that trespassing in my community) behind the townhouses, not on the street. The gates and fence were there for a reason; to keep uninvited, non-residents out. So, why was he skulking around behind the townhouses? If his intention was to go home, why not walk the sidewalk? Would an innocent "teenager" look for trouble and confront Zimmerman? Would he be skulking around behind people's homes? Going out to buy Skittles... My ass.
Here's couple of statistics from the National Gang Center: 40% of violent gang members are under 18 years of age. 42% of murders committed by gang members are attributed to members under 18. So clearly, a 17 year old is quite capable of horrific violence. Thus, we cannot give them a pass simply because they are not yet designated as adults.
One last thing... You have emphasized the fact that Zimmerman was carrying a firearm. So what? That doesn't have the slightest bearing on the facts leading up to the confrontation by Martin. Zimmerman's gun was legal. Rarely do I leave my home unarmed. Should I be unexpectedly assaulted by a criminal, who probably won't state that he's under 18; exercising my right to defend myself with my firearm somehow would make me the bad guy? No, it would make me a survivor, something the criminal could not claim.
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On the same day Trayvon died, 41 people were gunned down on the South Side of Chicago, Where's the outrage?
this is all political and this thread should be shut down.
Sorry Guppy, this is being politicized by the left and is a diversion from the real issue's, the Economy, Energy Prices, Health Care, Cost of living, Dem's are reaching for anything.
Sorry guys, I hope this thread is nixed.
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I speculate that Martin figured Zimmerman was going to call 911, and decided to preempt that.
Again, after the 911 call, no one watching the news knows what happened and to speculate about guilt or innocence is useless.
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Clearly I need to take my left wing, liberal biased ,gun hating elitist preconceptions out of this thread :aok
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Clearly.
My opinion is the only opinion that is valid!
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Clearly, no one here has any first hand information and biases are starting to show. I suggest you all stick to what you know, which is next to nothing. So, lets make this thread easier to read and discuss nothing.
The only thing about this case that I know is how some specific people have reacted to it, and I find it disgusting that very few are expressin any outrage over the 1 Million dollar bounty placed on Zimmermans head, or Spike Lee Tweeting an address he thought Zimmerman was at, forcing an innocent couple to flee their home because of the mob that appeared. Who are the thugs here?
I'm sorry Trayvon died, as I'm sorry when anyone dies. Beyond that, I don't give a damn. There is nothing that makes this kid any more or less special than the thousands of others that die tragically every day, and we aren't hearing about them.
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Yikes... I shouldn't have read ANY of this thread, much less most of it... Jumping the gun on both sides. Settle down folks.
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yeah it sure looks like it :rolleyes:
http://abcnews.go.com/US/video/george-zimmerman-police-surveillance-16024475
doesn't look at all like he had recently been battered to me *shrug*
The officer was looking at the back of his head. You can't tell much of anything from that video. How should someone who went through what he went through look from that far away?
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This.
Zimmerman was the adult. He didn't act like one. The kid was going where he was supposed to go and had a right to be in that gated community as well. The second Zimmerman ignored the 911 dispatcher's direction to not follow the kid, he set the wheels in motion. That he's carrying a gun in his gated community makes no sense either. Screams of wannabe cop.
I'm a bit curious when the 17 year old kid became less then a 'model citizen." These comments are based on what? That he got suspended for pot residue in a plastic bag? If that's it, then this thread is full of less then model citizens. I smoked pot at 17 at school a couple times. And I don't do any of that kind of stuff and would have been considered squeaky clean at 17. Since when did that make a kid more then a kid?
Real simple. Zimmerman calls the cops, lets them do their job, and the story is never a story. The adult blew it.
My youngest wears hoodies all the time. I do often as well. Are folks suggesting my little guy will have to give them up for fear of looking suspicious when he gets older?
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/MightyMatt-1.jpg)
I carry at all times. I'm not a wannabe cop.
The 17 year old was caught doing grafitti on lockers in school. At that time they also found a watch and several pieces of womens jewelery in his backpack along with a screwdriver which they called a burglar tool. This being security at a probably less than optimum school. The 17 year old said they were not his and belonged to a friend which is refused to identify. They were photographed and turned over to the police. This among other things he did. Both individuals in this case were not squeaky clean.
I doubt the neighborhood watch was developed for no reason. They have had their share or more of crime. He saw someone suspicious and reported it. When the 17 year old (who no one at the time knew how old he was) approached the vehicle then turned away heading towards a back gate, Zimmerman seems to have thought he was going to get out before cops could respond and confirm the guy good or bad. You never know how long before the police show up. I feel that Zimmerman got excited. Right or wrong it is part of human nature.
Some folks wear hoodies where it covers their face. It also seems to be a favorite of folks committing crimes for that very reason. It does not mean that anyone wearing a hoodie is a criminal but if I don't know you and your in my area... and I can't see your face.... You will get more of my attention.
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His nose looks unbroken on the police surveillance video and there are zero marks on his head or face
Have you ever had a broken nose. I have..... it may hurt but it does not mean you can see it is broken from a video that distance away. You are questioning things that are known.
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Have you ever had a broken nose. I have..... it may hurt but it does not mean you can see it is broken from a video that distance away. You are questioning things that are known.
yep 100% correct, other than when the black eyes set in the next day.
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yep 100% correct, other than when the black eyes set in the next day.
You beat me to it.
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I don't believe he should of shot the boy. If the kid was up to no good, then a good pistol whipping would have been better if a fight couldn't have been avoided. I believe it's just wrong to shoot a kid no matter what he did. I couldn't live with the guilt of that.
What ticks me off about this whole case is that fact that it makes the national news. If the roles were reversed the media wouldn't have even covered it. And that's a fact. Recently in Kansas City, 2 black teens followed a 13 year old white boy home and threw gas on him and set him on fire. Where's the news coverage on that? Where's Al Sharpton?
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I don't believe he should of shot the boy. If the kid was up to no good, then a good pistol whipping would have been better if a fight couldn't have been avoided. I believe it's just wrong to shoot a kid no matter what he did. I couldn't live with the guilt of that.
What ticks me off about this whole case is that fact that it makes the national news. If the roles were reversed the media wouldn't have even covered it. And that's a fact. Recently in Kansas City, 2 black teens followed a 13 year old white boy home and threw gas on him and set him on fire. Where's the news coverage on that? Where's Al Sharpton?
Did they identify the 2 black teens, interview them and decline to arrest and charge them, if so I agree with you, a travesty.
shamus
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I don't believe he should of shot the boy. If the kid was up to no good, then a good pistol whipping would have been better if a fight couldn't have been avoided. I believe it's just wrong to shoot a kid no matter what he did. I couldn't live with the guilt of that.
What ticks me off about this whole case is that fact that it makes the national news. If the roles were reversed the media wouldn't have even covered it. And that's a fact. Recently in Kansas City, 2 black teens followed a 13 year old white boy home and threw gas on him and set him on fire. Where's the news coverage on that? Where's Al Sharpton?
What boy.... no one knew how old he was till after the fact. If you get laid out from a single punch and you pull a pistol out while on your back and having your head banged on the concrete you can try to pistol whip someone... better hope that pistol is not used on you. :)
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This thread has no where to go but downhill.