Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: scottak on April 02, 2012, 09:04:31 PM

Title: IS-2
Post by: scottak on April 02, 2012, 09:04:31 PM
After the Battle of Kursk it was realized that larger guns than 85 mm were needed. Kotin's team at Zavod Nr 9 initially placed an 85 mm gun in the IS series but it was then determined that a 100 mm or 122 mm gun was needed. The 100 mm BS-3 and 122 mm A-19 were put through tests in November 1943. The 100 mm was better at armor penetration but the 122 mm could rip off the armor of a captured Panther. The 122 mm was selected as it was available and the 100 mm was in very short supply.

Based on the IS-1 with a longer turret to accept the 122 mm, which was designed by General A. A. Petrov. Initially had a single chambered muzzle brake which later became a double chamber after a test which almost fatally wounded Marshal K. E. Voroshilov.

The A-19 122 mm gun was based on a naval gun. The ammunition was in 2 parts which slowed it's loading. An IS-2's crew could fire around 2 or 3 rounds a minute. In 1944 the 122 mm D-25T gun was installed which had a better breech which helped its performance.

The IS-2 had a cast hull front which was uniformly sloped, not bent as in the IS-1. The better sloping provided better protection without an increase in weight. The IS-2 could now withstand a direct hit by a 88 mm AP round at over 9,144 yards / 1,000 m.

crew: 4
weight: 101,963 lb
Length w/gun:31' "
Length w/o gun:21' 10"
Height:8.9'
Width:10' 1.6"
Ground clearance:13.75"
Ground contact length:14' 3.25"
Ground pressure:11.25 psi
Main:122 mm D-25
MG:3: 7.62 mm DT MG
Hull Front, Upper:4.3"
Hull Front, Lower:90-95mm
Hull Sides, Upper"3.5"
Hull Sides, Lower:90mm
Hull Rear:2"
Hull Top:20 - 30mm
Turret Front:3.9"
Turret Sides:3.7"
Turret Rear:90mm
Engine (Make / Model)

V-2-IS
Bore / stroke

 4 stroke
Cylinders

V-12
Net HP
 
 600  @2,000 rpm8
Power to weight ratio

11.3 hp/ton
Transmission (Type)

8 forward, 2 reverse
 fuel Quantity

217 gallons, 158 gallons + 104 gallons in auxiliary
  
speed: 37 kmh
Title: Re: IS-2
Post by: Tank-Ace on April 02, 2012, 09:59:18 PM
Umm.... the IS-2 could never withstand a direct hit from an 88mm PzGr.39/43 APCBC-HE round. Those 88mm shells were rated for 203mm of penetration at 30 degrees slope.
Title: Re: IS-2
Post by: 321BAR on April 02, 2012, 10:48:24 PM
Umm.... the IS-2 could never withstand a direct hit from an 88mm PzGr.39/43 APCBC-HE round. Those 88mm shells were rated for 203mm of penetration at 30 degrees slope.
distance?
Title: Re: IS-2
Post by: SmokinLoon on April 02, 2012, 11:10:17 PM
distance?

At 2000 yards the 88mm PaK 43 / 41 L / 71 could beat 153mm of armor with PzGr.40 / 43 ( Armor Piercing Composite Rigid ) ammo.  At 1000 yards it could defeat 193mm.

As I've always said about the IS-2 and the other "big" Soviets tanks, many people forget one major factor when gauging their "effectiveness".  Yeah, they may have Tiger-like armor.  Yeah, they may have 88mm like AP values.  However, the IS-2 had a reload time of 20 seconds at best (2-3 rounds a minute).  Read up.  The ammo was loaded in 2 parts: first the projectile then the powder charge.  NOT very effective in terms of reloading efficiency.  In AH, the IS-2 would have a tough time.  Formidable enemy tank guns found on the likes of the Panther, Tiger, M4/76 and M18, Panzer IV H, and Firefly would get 3-4 shots for everyone the IS-2 could dish out.  In short, think of the Tiger I with a reload of 20 seconds and that is what the IS-2 would bring to AH.  It would not fair as well as many people think.  Heck, even the King Tiger would have a 2-1 reload rate (and superior armor, too).

 
Title: Re: IS-2
Post by: wil3ur on April 02, 2012, 11:37:59 PM

The IS-2 could now withstand a direct hit by a 88 mm AP round at over 9,144 yards / 1,000 m.


Your conversion seems extremely off...  1000m approximately equals 1094 yards..., not 9000 yards.
Title: Re: IS-2
Post by: Tank-Ace on April 03, 2012, 12:15:52 AM
distance?

100m. Significant penetration preformance was still retained beyond 2500m, certinally more than enough to defeat the frontal armor of an IS-2.

And past that, the IS-2's 122mm would penetrate slightly more armor than the Tiger I's 88mm L'56, and would retain its penetration at range a bit better. But even then, a Panther's glacis plate would defeat the round at a little more than 1000yds IIRC.


Smokin, I think the Tiger II fires a bit faster than 6 rounds per minute. Not a whole lot, mind you, but IIRC, it was something around 6.3 rounds per minute when I timed in in AH.
Title: Re: IS-2
Post by: Volron on April 03, 2012, 12:32:14 AM
Would it merit a perk price?  I wouldn't think so with it's hellish reload time and limited ammo.  If it does get perked, I wouldn't expect it to be much more than what the T-34/85 sits at.  Would be an interesting add regardless. :aok
Title: Re: IS-2
Post by: Tank-Ace on April 03, 2012, 12:38:37 AM
Probably be perked about as much as the Panther. It would be the second most heavily armored tank in the game, it would have even thicker armor when you angle your tank, and its gun would still pack a wallop if it penetrates your armor.

Likely it would one-shot a Tiger II even at long range, if by some mirical the gunner hit the lower nose and penetrated.
Title: Re: IS-2
Post by: guncrasher on April 03, 2012, 12:39:40 AM
this tank would just sit on the concrete just like most tiger2's now.  I would rather have small fast tanks like the m18 than "bigger" tanks.  it would sure make it more fun to outflank other's rather than sit on concrete racking up kills.

I was giving air cover at a base where the tiger2 would just sit close to the base and at the least amount of danger run to concrete and land. then saw 2 or 3 just up and sit next to the hangar.  which gives me another wish.


semp
Title: Re: IS-2
Post by: Tank-Ace on April 03, 2012, 12:49:35 AM
Semp, that crap isn't going to stop untill GV's have as much chance as the aircraft does to get away.
Title: Re: IS-2
Post by: oakranger on April 03, 2012, 01:49:45 AM
Sure is a big looking tank. 
Title: Re: IS-2
Post by: Tank-Ace on April 03, 2012, 02:36:21 AM
Its about the same size as a Panzer IV actually, only about 10 ft longer counting the lenght of the guns.
Title: Re: IS-2
Post by: scottak on April 03, 2012, 06:08:54 AM
Umm.... the IS-2 could never withstand a direct hit from an 88mm PzGr.39/43 APCBC-HE round. Those 88mm shells were rated for 203mm of penetration at 30 degrees slope.
i was talking about fthe 88mm flak 18. and i guess i forgot to correct some things before i posted.
Title: Re: IS-2
Post by: scottak on April 03, 2012, 06:10:27 AM
At 2000 yards the 88mm PaK 43 / 41 L / 71 could beat 153mm of armor with PzGr.40 / 43 ( Armor Piercing Composite Rigid ) ammo.  At 1000 yards it could defeat 193mm.

As I've always said about the IS-2 and the other "big" Soviets tanks, many people forget one major factor when gauging their "effectiveness".  Yeah, they may have Tiger-like armor.  Yeah, they may have 88mm like AP values.  However, the IS-2 had a reload time of 20 seconds at best (2-3 rounds a minute).  Read up.  The ammo was loaded in 2 parts: first the projectile then the powder charge.  NOT very effective in terms of reloading efficiency.  In AH, the IS-2 would have a tough time.  Formidable enemy tank guns found on the likes of the Panther, Tiger, M4/76 and M18, Panzer IV H, and Firefly would get 3-4 shots for everyone the IS-2 could dish out.  In short, think of the Tiger I with a reload of 20 seconds and that is what the IS-2 would bring to AH.  It would not fair as well as many people think.  Heck, even the King Tiger would have a 2-1 reload rate (and superior armor, too).

 
learn to read the whole thing. i did put in there the reloading time.
Title: Re: IS-2
Post by: Spikes on April 03, 2012, 08:22:32 AM
It would be neat to have, but since there is no true damage model with the tanks in this game as there is with world of tanks, big guns don't seem to do too much. If it penetrates, it kills. I have tested this a few times in the offline arena.
Title: Re: IS-2
Post by: Butcher on April 03, 2012, 10:29:58 AM
No IS-2, we have enough tanks that park on concrete and don't move. Kids won't let them leave safe ground so there is no sense in having it.

Title: Re: IS-2
Post by: tunnelrat on April 03, 2012, 03:03:34 PM
Until they model spalling, there is no point in having anything other than the uber-Tigers...

We can sit here and talk about armor thickness and degrees of slope all day... read up on how crews of Tigers fared when their tank ate a 122mm or 152mm HE round.

Title: Re: IS-2
Post by: Butcher on April 03, 2012, 03:07:24 PM
Until they model spalling, there is no point in having anything other than the uber-Tigers...

We can sit here and talk about armor thickness and degrees of slope all day... read up on how crews of Tigers fared when their tank ate a 122mm or 152mm HE round.



At short range both 122 and 152 did incredible damage, putting a Tiger/KT out of action.
Title: Re: IS-2
Post by: kilo2 on April 03, 2012, 06:44:52 PM
152 shooting HE could kill the crew by the pressure of the round alone.
Title: Re: IS-2
Post by: wil3ur on April 03, 2012, 09:15:32 PM
They should really model in headaches from rounds...  Can you imagine taking 10 or 15 75MM rounds upside the turret and what that had to soundlike to the guys inside that giant bell if they were bouncing?  Good lord!
Title: Re: IS-2
Post by: matt on April 04, 2012, 02:10:06 AM
+1
Title: Re: IS-2
Post by: tunnelrat on April 04, 2012, 01:19:17 PM
They should really model in headaches from rounds...  Can you imagine taking 10 or 15 75MM rounds upside the turret and what that had to soundlike to the guys inside that giant bell if they were bouncing?  Good lord!

They do, anytime Midjami is talking on 200 it's because someone is getting hit with 10 to 15 75mm rounds upside the turret  :P
Title: Re: IS-2
Post by: Denniss on April 14, 2012, 03:06:04 PM
It's a common myth all IS-2 had a uniformly sloped frontal armor section - in fact the first series up to summer 1944 had the hull from the IS-1 with an enlarged turret to mount the 122mm gun. Only then they began producing the uniformly sloped frontal armor, this vehicle is often called IS-2 model 1944 (neither IS-2m nor IS-2M).
Both IS-1 and the early IS-2 had unexpected high loss rates, after inspecting destroyed tanks they identified the weak spot in the stepped frontal armor and eliminated it.
Title: Re: IS-2
Post by: guncrasher on April 14, 2012, 03:50:00 PM
They should really model in headaches from rounds...  Can you imagine taking 10 or 15 75MM rounds upside the turret and what that had to soundlike to the guys inside that giant bell if they were bouncing?  Good lord!

he would've been dead from the first round.


semp
Title: Re: IS-2
Post by: Karnak on April 14, 2012, 05:10:10 PM
Semp, that crap isn't going to stop untill GV's have as much chance as the aircraft does to get away.
Conversely, it won't stop until tanks don't have the option to do it either.  I am certain that many airplane drivers would also utilize such a tool if they could.

I will also note that many aircraft are not very capable of getting away, though not the perked ones obviously.
Title: Re: IS-2
Post by: Tank-Ace on April 14, 2012, 06:42:08 PM
Karnak, what you simply fail to grasp time and again is that GV's are fundamentally different from aircraft, and that by nessecity, solutions to their problems will be fundamentally different. If that means flackers kill as many aircraft as aircraft do GV's..... well then it does, and thats all.

GV's weren't put in the game to serve as targets for those lacking the skills to achieve A2A kills. If you want to bomb, HTC has already provided numerous targets for that purpose.

This being so, NOBODY'S gameplay hinges being able to bomb GV's; those that divebomb GV's can divebomb town buildings and hangers, and likely contribute more to the overall game play by doing so.

Those that hunt the bombers can still hunt the bombers.

Furballers can still furball in the ensuing fight.

Etc.


Karnak, you're pissed you got killed fair and square, although in an admitedly gamey manner, we get it. But stop acting like a petulant 4yr old, and deal with the problem. Start your own thread asking for the icon range of flackers to be increased, instead of snipping in on GV threads with your poorly reasoned, and fundamentally flawed arguments.
Title: Re: IS-2
Post by: Karnak on April 14, 2012, 07:37:21 PM
I actually don't want the icon range extended.  I never asked for it to be extended.  You and the other mudders have persistently assigned that position to me, but I have never held it.  I have only held that friendly aircraft should have the same range limits on GV icons as hostile aircraft.  Nothing less, nothing more.
Title: Re: IS-2
Post by: Tank-Ace on April 14, 2012, 08:11:03 PM
Then post a wish for that. You so rarely state what you want, that its no wonder we don't know what your goals are.

Most of your recent posts on the subject have been just support for "Nerf the GV's, they're too hard to bomb  :cry" threads.
Title: Re: IS-2
Post by: MK-84 on April 14, 2012, 08:46:09 PM
GV's are still very easy to bomb. 

The best part is though....with the patch they CAN be very hard to spot, and thus very hard to destroy.

I find most GV'ers tooling about making no attempt to stop (which halves range) or hiding under a tree (which removes your icon)  They now have a very useful tool, but most appear to ignore this.
Title: Re: IS-2
Post by: AHTbolt on April 15, 2012, 12:53:08 AM

GV's weren't put in the game to serve as targets for those lacking the skills to achieve A2A kills. If you want to bomb, HTC has already provided numerous targets for that purpose.




Gv's are not special or immune from bombs or being strafed. The biggest threat German tanks faced were not other tanks but aircraft, that's why the Germans were forced to travel at night. And I don't think the lankstuka is right either, but being bombed is one of the problems GVs face.   
Title: Re: IS-2
Post by: Butcher on April 15, 2012, 12:58:56 AM

GV's weren't put in the game to serve as targets for those lacking the skills to achieve A2A kills. If you want to bomb, HTC has already provided numerous targets for that purpose.




Gv's are not special or immune from bombs or being strafed. The biggest threat German tanks faced were not other tanks but aircraft, that's why the Germans were forced to travel at night. And I don't think the lankstuka is right either, but being bombed is one of the problems GVs face.   


Again only whiners whine about being bombed, if you look at the stats it doesn't account for more then 25% of someones total deaths in a ground vehicle, if it does your tactics are poor.