Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Tupac on April 18, 2012, 07:27:46 PM
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For one month, or even less if there is a gameplay imbalance - if not leave it unperked.
Pretty please
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Better yet, extend the Perk system across all post 41 machines or remove it all-together!
Even better yet how about more Perk point sinks: Lets trade perks for web services, like HTC hosted squad pages?
The Internet demands MOAR!
:aok :lol :)
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For one month, or even less if there is a gameplay imbalance - if not leave it unperked.
Pretty please
You seriously can't make 10 perks?
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You seriously can't make 10 perks?
I have enough perks to crash 100 spit 14s, however I don't like using my perks for something that doesnt warrant it. The fact there are rarely spit 14s flying around in the DA is telling.
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The Spit 14 in it's current incarnation is not more perk worthy than the 109K ;)
I was surprised when it was not unperked along with the Ta 152H...
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I have enough perks to crash 100 spit 14s, however I don't like using my perks for something that doesnt warrant it. The fact there are rarely spit 14s flying around in the DA is telling.
Being perked also heavily distorts the combat experience with it as you get ganged for nothing other than being in a perk plane, and the Spit XIV can't do 385mph to run from the horde.
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The Spit 14 in it's current incarnation is not more perk worthy than the 109K ;)
I was surprised when it was not unperked along with the Ta 152H...
Lusche since when did the Ta152H drop from 5ENY to 10 ENY?
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Lusche since when did the Ta152H drop from 5ENY to 10 ENY?
No idea. It may have happened along with the removal of the perk status in, if I recall correctly, 2007.
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No idea. It may have happened along with the removal of the perk status in, if I recall correctly, 2007.
It's been 5 eny as of a few months ago, I haven't noticed when it switched but recently I noticed it was 10eny and was like "wait a minute?".
I can see the Spit14 dropping to 5 eny and no perks, if anything i'd be flying it exclusively to run down La7s and P51s.
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I believe if the 14 would get unperked we'd see a lot more of them. Who would not want a Spitfire that's faster than a P-51?
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I believe if the 14 would get unperked we'd see a lot more of them. Who would not want a Spitfire that's faster than a P-51?
They would quickly go back to the "standard" Spit 16 when they note the added speed comes at huge cost. Because it's not simply a "spit faster than a P-51".
There is a good reason the XiV is, by a huge margin, both the least used (despite the low price) and least successful perk plane.
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Thing is at most AH altitudes the 14 is not much faster than LAs or P51s. It's also quite squirrely to fly, and the pitch is clunky. It doesn't fly like a spixteen.
(http://www.hitechcreations.com/wiki/images/thumb/6/6a/La7spd.jpg/300px-La7spd.jpg)
(http://www.hitechcreations.com/wiki/images/thumb/b/b5/190d9spd.jpg/300px-190d9spd.jpg)
(http://www.hitechcreations.com/wiki/images/thumb/b/b8/Spit14spd.jpg/300px-Spit14spd.jpg)
(http://www.hitechcreations.com/wiki/images/thumb/4/45/P51dspd.jpg/300px-P51dspd.jpg)
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(http://www.hitechcreations.com/wiki/images/thumb/0/02/109k4spd.jpg/300px-109k4spd.jpg)
K4
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Spit14 falls along the lines of a P-51D and Fw-190, although slower then both, I'm sure it out turns both easily and maintains the E which puts it ahead of the pack.
Its no turn fighter, but when it beats the late war speed demons in a turn fight, it wins my vote.
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Its no turn fighter, but when it beats the late war speed demons in a turn fight,
La-7? :)
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La-7? :)
Sure a La-7 turns a tab tighter in a turn fight with full flaps down, then again how many La-7's actually have dropped flaps in a fight? It's been at least 6 months since I seen it.
Lusche, not every veteran pilot flies an La-7, you can safety bet most won't know the La-7 eventually out turns a Spit14, and with flaps down murder a spit 14.
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You seriously can't make 10 perks?
Would you agree to perk the D9 then? :)
The Spit XIV was in combat a lot longer then the D9. Seems interesting that one is 'free' but the Spit 14 isn't.
Only seems fair they both aren't wouldn't you say?
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Would you agree to perk the D9 then? :)
The Spit XIV was in combat a lot longer then the D9. Seems interesting that one is 'free' but the Spit 14 isn't.
Only seems fair they both aren't wouldn't you say?
Trouble maker. :D
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if it were significantly faster then some of the unperked rides - then it makes sense to keep it perked - but it is not faster. When you punch it the numbers into Gonzo, the fighter comparison, you find out that the K4 and LA7 are faster, the k4 climbs better (with longer wep too), the LA7 out turns it by a fair bit (and remains stable in a tight turn while the spit14 becomes really uncontrollable), the La7 out accelerates it, and out guns it.
LA7 is better then the spit in almost every way except sheer climb. And if people feel the hispanos are nice, then i would contend that the cowl mounted 3xcannon of the LA7 is still superior even if it is not effective at 800 (like shots at those distances are not desperation <please break> shots anyway).
Add to that the god awful fuel consumption even when throttled down. . .(I can get a K4 to go very very far, the LA7 less so but very far, the spit 14. . .nowhere near as far even with the slipper).
to me it feels like a good 5 eny plane, and not worth the perk risk at all - if I wanted to spend perks on a prop plane, the U4 (truly the best prop plane in the game) or the tempest (unmatched speed and firepower) are truly deserving of a perk. . .the spit 14, no way.
And yes, the K4 eny is too high - i think most of us would agree with that.
With the dora, the 14 out climbs, out turns and out accelerates it - but the dora has much more docile handling, 10mins of wep, retains e better, and bucket full of ammo. . .
comparisons aside, a spit 14 just adds another plane into the top speed demon matrix (51, dora, la7, k4) and gives another choice to those runner types. Will it dominate? Yes. More then the La7 or 51? No.
Add to that the really flat spinny, uncontrollable characteristics (a cornered or hard fighting 14 is just as likely to auger as be shot down) of the package and after the initial high use, it will become like the 152. . .and people will go back to the superior 16 like they did the dora - because it is a better plane unless you use it as a bnz/e fighter exclusively.
To put it another way, when I pass a spit on the merge and i see 'spit14' I don't really fear it. . .when I see spit16, I am much more guarded because that 16 can turn right around and smack you (and give you little or no time to regain/build e) whereas the 14 will either go up (giving me time), or keep going (again giving me time).
in the end, I just don't see how the 14 is perked, while the LA7 (the dora and k4 have drawbacks <turn/acceleration and the tater respectively>) is not. Or the 51D that can carry 2k ords and after it drops it magically transforms into a speed demon dog fighter either for that matter. It makes no sense to me. And in a close, low e dogfight, I would rather be in a 51 then a 14 in most cases since with good flap work I can work the 51 around while the spit14 pilot is fighting the plane.
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double post - hit quote instead of modify - sorry
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Would you agree to perk the D9 then? :)
The Spit XIV was in combat a lot longer then the D9. Seems interesting that one is 'free' but the Spit 14 isn't.
Only seems fair they both aren't wouldn't you say?
I would agree to perk the D9 to 5 perks and put the Spit14 down to 5 eny.
My Reasoning is game play:
The D9 outruns most planes in the game on wep and has pretty hard hitting firepower.
The spit14 is just a boosted spit only at alts above 15k, below its nothing special but a little faster spitfire.
Given the usual alts in aces high being below 15k, it renders the Spit14 useless as the Ta-152, if the Ta-152 is 10eny now - I can see the spit14 being 5 eny.
The P-51 is a null for me, fact it can't turn and its gunpackage is only 6x 50s - only thing it can do is run - I see it saying 5 eny.
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The post above me is correct but the spit XIV performs badly between 16k and 22k.
Above that, it comes alive and I would not be worried about meeting a ta152 or a jug at 41,000 feet.
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The Spit XIV was in combat a lot longer then the D9. Seems interesting that one is 'free' but the Spit 14 isn't.
Perking has nothing to do with how long something was in combat in the real war.
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Perks are used for controlling MA gameplay balance.
And with hat in mind, this is how the Spit 14 compared to all other fighters in 2011:
(http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/7609/fm2011u.jpg)
As a side note, the perked (and thus keeping 2 weekers out) Spit 14 has about the same K/D as the ultimate noob & sucide pork plane, the P-51 with it's 33 x more usage... :old:
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Perking has nothing to do with how long something was in combat in the real war.
I get that part :). Based on performance however, I'm not sure why the 14 is perked and the D9 isn't. I'm not suggesting perking the D9 either. I do think it's time to free up the 14.
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I don't see the logic in perking the dora, the La7 3xcannon package maby, but the dora. . .no. but that is my opinion.
The spit 14 perk makes 0 sense however, and I think it would make a fine addition to the regular plane set.
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Sure a La-7 turns a tab tighter in a turn fight with full flaps down, then again how many La-7's actually have dropped flaps in a fight? It's been at least 6 months since I seen it.
Shane, hotard, and I do it every hop in a lala.
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I get that part :). Based on performance however, I'm not sure why the 14 is perked and the D9 isn't. I'm not suggesting perking the D9 either. I do think it's time to free up the 14.
Maybe we should try those planes? I'm sure that it doesn't really matter who of us flies which plane. It is really hard for the Dora to shoot down a properfly flown 14 and if the Dora is wise it'll keep its speed up and is very careful.
For the record, I do think that 14 should be un perked. And I have a hunch of a problem in the flight model but as it is justa hunch which I can't prove I won't say anything further about it...yet.
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The Spit14 just feels clunky - I don't know how to describe it other than that. It's not fluid and smooth like it's counterparts.
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Lusche since when did the Ta152H drop from 5ENY to 10 ENY?
How does it drop up?
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If HTC perks 51d, la7, k4, or the d9, it would be the dumbest move...
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If HTC perks 51d, la7, k4, or the d9, it would be the dumbest move...
I agree, however I think they should also unperk the spit 14. The general consensus of the community seems to be that the perk needs to go.
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I agree, however I think they should also unperk the spit 14. The general consensus of the community seems to be that the perk needs to go.
Maybe, but the plane is a rocket...
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Maybe, but the plane is a rocket...
Not more than other unperked ones. See my post above how this "rocket" impacts on the MA...
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Maybe, but the plane is a rocket...
Less so than your Bf109K-4.
Do you think that should be perked?
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I think claiming the 109K4 should be perked if the spit14 is prked is a false argument. The only thing the K4 has going for it is is speed. The main issue? The ability to get the guns on target and kill something. The winner by 12 parsecs? The spit14.
So, don't compare them like they ought to have the same perk category. They are not the same plane. They do not handle the same. They do not fly remotely the same.
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Not more than other unperked ones. See my post above how this "rocket" impacts on the MA...
im sure if it gets unperked it will see ALOT more action in the MA.
Kinda like the c-hog back in the day before it got perked.Less so than your Bf109K-4.
Do you think that should be perked?
no :(
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im sure if it gets unperked it will see ALOT more action in the MA.
That'S what we hope for.
But "alot" doesn't mean it's going from minor player to main dominator. Not even a 10 fold increase in usage would make it a 'top player'. Especially as "alot" also means - lower K/D.
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The spit14 may turn worse than a 109k4, but it has I believe one of the, if not the best acceleration in the game, and shines at high alt... :airplane:
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The spit14 may turn worse than a 109k4, but it has I believe one of the, if not the best acceleration in the game, and shines at high alt... :airplane:
And at 2.0 fuel burn it has 15 minutes tops above 20k.
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Slipper?
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Slipper?
With 100% and slipper.
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I think claiming the 109K4 should be perked if the spit14 is prked is a false argument. The only thing the K4 has going for it is is speed. The main issue? The ability to get the guns on target and kill something. The winner by 12 parsecs? The spit14.
That is not true. Speed, fuel endurance, twice as much WEP and firepower are all in favor of the Bf109K-4. The Spitfire has better ballistics. Handling somewhat favor the Bf109K-4 as well.
Saying speed is the only thing the Bf109K-4 has over the Spitfire Mk XIV is blatantly false.
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the double WEP time is the real killer, doesnt the K4 climb faster too?
edit: hispano ballistics may be great, but with the XIV's nose bobbing around they have the dispersion of a blunderbuss ... :bhead
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the double WEP time is the real killer, doesnt the K4 climb faster too?
From a series of tests I'm currently running in another context, showing the climb profile of a few fighters. All with WEP until it runs out, no DT (not even the slipper on the XIV).
(http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/6319/clipboard01hev.jpg)
The numbers on the data points are time in minutes, X axis is miles, Y axis is altitude in thousand feet. Work in progress
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shows how useful the 10mins WEP is ... and that the K4 is a much stronger climber anyway.
so at least a sector before you can even consider how your going to set up your B29 attack ... :)
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So the guys who want more performance from a LW bird, all are chirping to deny performance to the RAF guys.
Classic my high performance bird isn't but your bird is so it should be perked while mine is not.
What you afraid of? :)
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shows how useful the 10mins WEP is ... and that the K4 is a much stronger climber anyway.
so at least a sector before you can even consider how your going to set up your B29 attack ... :)
hehe.. if you take that example literally (taking off when the B-29 is overhead), the 29 has ~ one sector lead when the 109 arrives at 30k. And the 29 still marches on with something like 350mph, while the 109 has still get to speed first...
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So the guys who want more performance from a LW bird, all are chirping to deny performance to the RAF guys.
I don't see how you can remotely claim such a thing. Seems the spit performance wanters are the ones dragging 109s into it, not the other way around.
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hehe.. if you take that example literally (taking off when the B-29 is overhead), the 29 has ~ one sector lead when the 109 arrives at 30k. And the 29 still marches on with something like 350mph, while the 109 has still get to speed first...
sry I meant a sector's warning, and then another 2 sectors climb to leaving you hanging 5k above em ... jeez
I have questions but I'll wait for your topic rather than hijack :)
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I don't see how you can remotely claim such a thing. Seems the spit performance wanters are the ones dragging 109s into it, not the other way around.
So then no objection to an unperked 14 right?
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I have questions but I'll wait for your topic rather than hijack :)
I haven't planned any topic on this, so you better start asking or create a topic on your own ;)
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And at 2.0 fuel burn it has 15 minutes tops above 20k.
I'm getting 45 minutes at 35,000 feet.
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IF the 14 was unperked, I would fly it because it can catch the speed demons. I am sick of flying the most beautiful plane in human history only to be picked off by planes that move at double the speed.
Give me a 14, regardless of its MANY faults, and I would fly it. If it were free. I would fly it. Simple.
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Perk the P51D and problem's solved.
:salute
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Perk the P51D and problem's solved.
Shut the front door! :D
I just watched as two Spit14s attacked two formations of B17s. Both of the 14s went in on the 17s high six with the expected results. Then a third came along and sheared his wings either from hits or Gs but attacking in the same way. You can give them the best equipment and they still fall on their faces! :devil
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The Spit 14 at low alts is not exactly a speed demon without WEP. Per the plane comparison charts:
Less than 5K,
Mil, Spit 14 about the same as a FW190A-8 & P38-J
Wep, Spit 14 about the same as a 109G-14, LA-5, P51B
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The Spit 14 at low alts is not exactly a speed demon without WEP. Per the plane comparison charts:
Less than 5K,
Mil, Spit 14 about the same as a FW190A-8 & P38-J
Wep, Spit 14 about the same as a 109G-14, LA-5, P51B
On the deck, the XIV is ranked ~ #14 in WEP speed (excluding jets).
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I don't understand why the wings break as easily as they do under Gs.
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there really is no argument against the spit14 being unperked. . .and i have yet to see a really compelling one - and like I said earlier - under 20k, I rather see a 14 then a 16. . . taking perks is just a perk :)
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From a series of tests I'm currently running in another context, showing the climb profile of a few fighters. All with WEP until it runs out, no DT (not even the slipper on the XIV).
(http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/6319/clipboard01hev.jpg)
The numbers on the data points are time in minutes, X axis is miles, Y axis is altitude in thousand feet. Work in progress
What is the basis for the last plot on the curves? Out of wep? Out of fuel? Feeling a little dense. I compared the spit16 to the k4 from ground to 20k with wep and 50% fuel. The 16 got there first but leveling out the k4 just walks away.
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What is the basis for the last plot on the curves? Out of wep? Out of fuel? Feeling a little dense. I compared the spit16 to the k4 from ground to 20k with wep and 50% fuel. The 16 got there first but leveling out the k4 just walks away.
Wep runs out just after 18k on the Spit 14, while it lasts up to about 32k in the K4. All tests at 100% fuel, no DT, autoclimb unless noted. Data read directly from the film viewer.
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Wep runs out just after 18k on the Spit 14, while it lasts up to about 32k in the K4. All tests at 100% fuel, no DT, autoclimb unless noted. Data read directly from the film viewer.
I looked at your chart closer, didn't see the b29 the first time, my question was why the last points on the curves were the last points, after looking closer I am assuming it was when the planes were high enough to intercept and not because of running out of gas. Correct?
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I looked at your chart closer, didn't see the b29 the first time, my question was why the last points on the curves were the last points, after looking closer I am assuming it was when the planes were high enough to intercept and not because of running out of gas. Correct?
Ahh I see, I think I misunderstood you the first time.
I ended the tests when either the climb rate was becoming so low making it quite impractical or, pardon me for that unscientific method... because I thought "that's high enough" :uhoh
None of the fighters on that quick chart did actually run out of fuel
Edit: Just did a quick test on the Spit 16. Also 100% fuel, WEP, no DT. I was able to reproduce your result, the 16 was slightly quicker to 20k than the K-4. Only after the 16's WEP runs out, the 109 is cathcinh up and getting a (small) lead:
(http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/8845/clipboard01wts.jpg)
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contemporary tests put the spit VIII a fair bit quicker to 30k than the XIV, so the XVI beating the XIV isnt a big surprise. and it answers the question I didnt ask :)
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so hang on a second the 14 that is all about power and climb can't even out climb the 8/16?? :headscratch:
something needs to be done!!!
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so hang on a second the 14 that is all about power and climb can't even out climb the 8/16?? :headscratch:
Of course it can outclimb them. See how the gap is closing 25k, up there the 14 starts to climb significantly faster than them. This chart does show the total time to climb to altitude from SL, not the momentary climb rates.
But then, we all know where the majority of combat happens in AH ;)
Right now the 14 basically has a boost in speed (yet not enough to challenge the actual speed demons at standard combat altitudes) accompanied by a bunch of handling problems. No wonder it does so relatively bad in the MA.
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Shane, hotard, and I do it every hop in a lala.
I'd pay perkies to be able to jam the leading edge slats closed. :noid
on topic... i'm not opposed to either a free or minimal perked 14... 2-5 perkies...
it's still a spit... just food. :aok
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Well, at 12,000ft the Spitfire Mk XIV shares second place for fastest piston engined aircraft with the P-51D, being edged only by the Bf109K-4. All the other speed demons, F4U-4, Fw190D-9, La-7, P-47M, P-47N, P-51B, Ta152H-1, Tempest V and Typhoon I are slightly slower to very much slower at that altitude.
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I'd pay perkies to be able to jam the leading edge slats closed. :noid
on topic... i'm not opposed to either a free or minimal perked 14... 2-5 perkies...
it's still a spit... just food. :aok
Agreed on both counts.
Spits taste like popcorn.
+1
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How you manage wep in the game can have a huge effect on the spit XIV climb time to 30k.
I try to save some for the horsepower dip that occurs around 16k up to 23k.
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Even with managed wep climb - the 14 is still far less a threat then the 16 is.