Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Slade on May 09, 2012, 09:38:12 AM
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Guys,
What can you share as far as your real game experience with the C205? Tactics, guns, convergence, effectivity in different envelopes etc.
Seems to me to be a pretty good ride.
Thanks for sharing,
Slade :salute
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It's a fun plane I have a couple kills in this little bird. My convergence on most my planes start at 400 and stagger 25 each gun (20mm at 400 and the other at 425).
Here is the Lushe is post on the AH Stats of 2011 Pilots in Planes thread. Good knowledge for each plane and pilot.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,326962.0.html
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Its a 109G2 with twin cannons. The End. :D
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I keep the C.205's guns at 375, Basically it has Fw190 guns with a Bf109g2's engine.
Its turn radius is pretty fair, it out turns a typical P47 and P51 with ease, but spitfires and 109s beat it. The C205 is decent when it comes to speed, at 21k it tops around 405mph, I would honestly STICK around 10-15k for a LWA fight.
The climb rate is exceptional, only a few spits and 109s can out climb the 205 on Wep, even without wep it still out climbs many opponents.
Acceleration is not that good, you must keep your airspeed up and try not to let something like a La7 catch you, If you dump your airspeed just remember it takes a while to get it back, so its not a true dogfighter.
Max speed on the deck is 323 and 333 with wep - which is TERRIBLE, stay off the deck at all costs. Between 10k and 15k its pretty decent sticking around 375 leveled out.
Basically you need to utalize the Climb Rate to defeat most opponents, its a very nimble bird when its gas gets down 50%. Use the firepower at every chance, at 375 converg, you can take many snapshots and score serious damage.
You are going to burn down a good 25% gas before you even get to the target, you HAVE to monitor the fuel, c.205s have short legs, but if you stick around 10-15k you can easily throttle back and still make some moves before an enemy closes under 3k.
The view is pretty fantastic, allows great snapshots, its guns are outstanding, just remember not to get caught on the deck, its not easy a nimble late war fighter, its a pretty rugged midwar fighter however.
I flew it for 4-5 tours before switching to the Ki-84, every now and then I go back because the C.205 is just the ferrari of the midwar fighters :)
One last note: Its a perk farmer at 25 eny - want to bang out some serious fighter perks? fly it for an entire tour (sooner you ignore score the sooner you learn to love a perk farmer)
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Drain your wing tanks first...the only plane I fly and set my own fuel tank drain, gives it a better roll rate.
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323 MIL and 333 WEP on the deck is not terrible unless you're going to consider things like the Bf109K-4 and P-51D as being just adequate. If you do that you're basically going to write off a the vast majority of the planeset as being too slow. The C.205 is right in the middle of the pack. Terrible is reserved for things like the A6M2 and Hurricane Mk I.
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Butcher summed it well enough.
A couple things to add:
-while the turn rate isnt as bad, the turn radius is pretty big. Flaps are pretty poor too, i wouldnt use them unless its a scissoring/overshooting fight or youre on a top of a rope.
-in the other hand, stall characteristics are decent, the torque gives you a "safe" feeling in the poost-stall moves. The aircraft is steadily nose-heavy, you can push it hard.
-thanks to its excellent guns, good climb, acceptable dive and decent instanteous turn rate, this plane excels in many vs many skirmishes.
-333mph IS terrible since you got absolutely nothing to use against a spit9/8/16. (Thats for Karnak)
One last note: please, dont fly it like kamurogi. Thank you.
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One last note: please, dont fly it like kamurogi. Thank you.
LOL! Why is that sir?
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333 gives you as much or more against a Spit IX than it does against an N1K2-J. Spit VIII is slightly faster, Spit XVI is a speed category, by my reckoning, higher.
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it is a 1943 bird and relative to mid-war, it has very reasonable performance. With a bit of rpm and throttle management you can even get a decent enough range out of it. Gun package is 190A5'ish while performance is 109G2'ish (has the same cannon placement and better MG than 190A5, and the engine of a 109).
Any plane with a pimp leopard skin gets a "like" from me.
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Personally, I feel the C.205 is one of the most under-valued aircraft in the game. Really a great little fighter, superb rate of climb, great guns, and decent acceleration.
Personally I feel it flys a bit like a combination of the 190 and 109. It handles speed much better than the 109, and manuvers much better than the 190. At mid-speeds its actually suprisingly nimble. Very low or very high speeds tend to pose a bit of an issue, but its not impossible to do. I've taken the C205 into low speed turning matches with hellcats and came out OK. But since I had superior energy generation compared to the hellcat, my goal wasn't to beat him in a turning fight, but to make him blow his E.
Overall, come in high, and ignore any aircraft above you as targets. Don't be afraid to manuver a bit, but its still safest to return to your perch if its clear you'll be in for a long drawn-out fight.
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Oy. So let me be the voice in the wilderness:
The 205 is a pig.
There. I've said it. If you want elegance and a gilded fresco paint job, fly the 202.
- oldman
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Oy. So let me be the voice in the wilderness:
The 205 is a pig.
There. I've said it. If you want elegance and a gilded fresco paint job, fly the 202.
- oldman
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
And a +1 to you sir.
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I've been a fan of the C2 long before it became noticed on most people's radar.
It is a pig. The guns package is good, not great, not overall reliable (you can land a solid hit and not get a kill), and as far as turning goes -- it's sub par compared to most of the planeset.
Overall it's a nice ride. Just don't be saying it's overly manueverable or elegant.
Same goes for the C.202. Doesn't turn all that well.
P.S. Don't ever use flaps in a C2. I mean ever. They're for landing and coming to a complete stop only, and it has a nasty/wicked/vicious stall nature, so if you want to get the best out of it, keep it ABOVE the stall at all times. It handles quite nicely there, much like keeping a P-40 faster (150mph or so) at all times, that's the sweet spot.
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Its a 109G2 with twin cannons. The End. :D
Oh HECK NO!
The C205 has superior diving abilities, which is incredibly important if you combine that with it's fantastic climbrate!
The C205 has superior departure characteristics compared with the 109, being less susceptible to snap rolls and torque roll particularly at low speeds.
The twin 20mm carry a lot more ammo, which allows a pilot to be more encouraged to take a less than perfect shot.
It has more than one fuel tank which could be a pretty big difference if taking damage.
In terms of speed and climbrate it is similar on military power to the 109G2 and the G14, but has much weaker WEP.
Turn radius is better with both mentioned 109's either with flaps or without, and acceleration is good, but not as good as the 109's
Keep in mind though, that this is assuming the 109's are not carrying gondolas.
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Actually, it's far more like the 109F than the 109G, and the G2 out climbs it easily.
Any 109 really outclasses it. It's definitely a vertical fighter, using what speed and dive it can get to position for a shot, rather than turning in circles. However, it doesn't really dive any better than a 109. They both will lock up, and I find the 109 easily trims out better than the C2 when getting out of such a lockup.
If you want a 109, you'll have to fly a 109, since the C2 really won't replace it. I would say the firepower is somewhat comparable to a Fw, but there the comparison stops. I know folks like to say it's like the 109,or like the 190, or it's halfway between both, but in my not-so-humble opinion on the matter it's really neither. It's another world entirely. You can't fly it like a 190 or a 109. Just gotta fly it like a Macchi. :aok
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you might be right, Krusty... post deleted
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Debrody, I read it to say he is stating both 109s are better, not the other way around. The phrasing is somewhat confusing, though.
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I used to think of the C205 as the Italian Stallion and flew it much like a 51. It's a pretty good Efighter and has great snapshot potential.
Personally I rarely used the flaps except in a verticle turn and even then only if I pushed it to far and got too slow. By the time you're slow enough to drop flaps in a turn fight you will be meat on the table so I dont recommend that.
It's a pretty good plane when flown inside it's envelope and was a plane I flew alot back about 6 or 7 years ago.
:salute
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C205, lol
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I take it from your post you don't fly it. That's fine. To each their own.
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I'm not very good but I fly the 205 a lot. I don't know if its because worse players fly p51, k4, la7 but I don't dread meeting up with them. I hate encountering spitfires but that is partly due to some psychological block and not such good ability. I feel like I can have the advantage but if I don't get them on the first pass its all downhill. Everything else feels like I have a chance (slightly delusional.)(Now that I think of it LW corsairs are a problem, but that might just be pilot skill or that they tend to pack so much E at speed.) Burning the wing tanks gets you above 15k and speed at alt helps with the fuel tankage situation. Some body told me they shoot off the MG rounds and just use the cannon, don't know. It has lotsa bullets but I find that I have to lead so much that most of my successful shots are basically blind but cause its got lotsa bullets you don't really have to worry about wasting ammo. I think it dives well. It always feels nose heavy to me and feels clunky when it gets slow. It would be a great bnz er in the right hands but I always freak out at high closure rates and get too impatient to rebuild e between passes. I can't speak with authority but it feels like it sheds E faster than other planes so I try to avoid flat turns unless it seems like the other pilot is weak and you can do that rolling stalling in the weeds disorient thing that works on some people. It works better faster.
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I've noticed they fall apart under close inspection through the site of my P-38.
All in all I think the C205 is a pretty good plane.
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I've noticed they fall apart under close inspection through the BOMB site of my B-38.
All in all I think the C205 is a pretty good plane.
Fixed :aok
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The 205 is very stable in a dive great ammo load out. It can be flown very effectively using its dive and climb capabilities. It is a very underestimated plane imo. it makes for a great fight.
I think guppy5 once said you fly the g down hill and the j and L up hill. Its a interesting concept. I think the 205 is most effective when flown both down hill and up.
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I've been putting some time in in this plane lately. I don't find I fly it 'like' anything really, it handles significantly different from everything else.
In my hands, it does ok at high speed, but I wind up using trim to save me from compression a lot. I can't stallfight it for beans at low speed, but at middle speeds, say 130 up to compression, it turns quite well. It is at its best in the vertical.
Wiley.
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The only problem with it is it isnt flown more. Its an interesting and capable airframe that is fun to fly. Its always had a K/D in the 1.20+ range.
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Personally I don't find that to be a problem. I don't mind flying the less-common planes in the arena. In fact I rather like standing out a little.
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The only problem with it is it isnt flown more. Its an interesting and capable airframe that is fun to fly. Its always had a K/D in the 1.20+ range.
My Biggest problem is not having the drop tank option, its legs are pretty short - and a good 2-3 sector flight can eat up your fuel in a heartbeat.
99% of time you will land with no fuel and half an ammo load.
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It cruises pretty well when you throttle it back. I can get pretty long sorties out of it. I agree I'd love to see the DTs, but historically they just didn't play much of a part. Because of that we may never get that addition.
That's one reason I'd enjoy seeing the G.55: It had longer internal range than the C.205 did.
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It cruises pretty well when you throttle it back. I can get pretty long sorties out of it. I agree I'd love to see the DTs, but historically they just didn't play much of a part. Because of that we may never get that addition.
That's one reason I'd enjoy seeing the G.55: It had longer internal range than the C.205 did.
I'm begging if we get a C.205 update - the G.55 might be added as well, would be a nice addition - I certainly would fly the g.55 over the C2 even with a DT - if not a 205 with a DT would be nice.
I don't think we'd get the addition either, which is puzzling since the 51D has 1k bombs and rockets option - the 205 had DTs they were never used since they took off and were simply intercepting IB aircraft
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Personally I don't find that to be a problem. I don't mind flying the less-common planes in the arena. In fact I rather like standing out a little.
Right. The thrust of my words were basically in agreement with your high regard of the plane.
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The G55 is one of my fav WW2 fighters. Three internally mounted MG151's and 2 13mm's, it'd have 190A8 like firepower, with 400 mph top speed at the right altitude, and be able to out turn/climb/fight our fw190A8 every which way until sunday. I haven't found much information on the roll rate, but even if it's average it will still be a very dangerous Axis ride, and likely turn into a very popular one in the MA. I don't think the rear view would be anything to jump and down over.
I'm not holding my breath of ever seeing it in the game in my lifetime, what with the 410 contest being over half a year ago and still not one picture of its existence, but it's fun to hope.
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holy watermelon the 410 contest was half a year ago?!!? Damn having just returned to the game recently I figured the contest was a month ago or so. If it takes HTC this long to bang out one plane then I'll be dust in the wind before I get the intense graphic update I so desire.
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C205 is my personal all around favorite fighter. Everyone has summed up pros/cons well here. IMO you can fly it at any alt, but you have to be wise about your speed, its not a good low speed fighter but is good mid speeds and fast. Climbs great, solid speed, good gun package, and with 100% fuel I tend to get all the sortie out of it I want before its time to take a smoke break anyway :D Its aint no spit 16 but its a good fun plane to fly.
It is the Good Bad and Ugly's squad fighter. We fly them all the time :airplane:
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I think that the most limiting thing about the 205 is that almost all fights eventually end up on the deck, at 0.0 Alt,or close to it and you either have the low speed or you dont should you get into any trouble. At least in the LWA where 50% of all things flying are 5 eny. I'd love to see just one map where 1/2 base's are at 10,000'/15,000' on top of a mountain, like in the TA. One where all fights start out at least 10,000'/15,000' above the deck.
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First of all, I don't find it true that all my 205 fights end up on the deck. In fact rarely do they. Further, it's not a downhill fighter. It's an uphill fighter. It can regain E with copious WEP usage and climb over other targets, so why would you want to start high and give your one advantage (rate of climb) away?
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Because altitude, possition, and a higher relative E-level are even bigger advantages.
Why start high and give up your advantage of climb rate? I say why start down low, fight an up-hill battle, and give up the advantages of altitude, energy, and possition?
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Its a 109G2 with twin cannons. The End. :D
The 109G-2 is faster, better climbing and will fly circles around the C.205....
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Oh HECK NO!
The C205 has superior diving abilities, which is incredibly important if you combine that with it's fantastic climbrate!
The C205 has superior departure characteristics compared with the 109, being less susceptible to snap rolls and torque roll particularly at low speeds.
The twin 20mm carry a lot more ammo, which allows a pilot to be more encouraged to take a less than perfect shot.
It has more than one fuel tank which could be a pretty big difference if taking damage.
In terms of speed and climbrate it is similar on military power to the 109G2 and the G14, but has much weaker WEP.
Turn radius is better with both mentioned 109's either with flaps or without, and acceleration is good, but not as good as the 109's
Keep in mind though, that this is assuming the 109's are not carrying gondolas.
Most of the above is pure hogwash...
The 109G-2 is faster up 22k, where they are about equal. The 109G-2 out-climbs the C.205 at any altitude. Departure characteristics easily favor the 109. Few fighters are as stable at the limits. Turning circle? the 109 wins with great ease. Meet me in the TA or DA sometime and I'll demonstrate how badly outclassed the C.205 is compared to the 109G-2.
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Because altitude, possition, and a higher relative E-level are even bigger advantages.
Why start high and give up your advantage of climb rate? I say why start down low, fight an up-hill battle, and give up the advantages of altitude, energy, and possition?
Because then everyone will spawn off these 10k fields and simply dive downhill on the most cherry-like target below them with no need for skill. Trust me, that's how every H2H room did it, that's how the TA/DA has always done it.
There's no advantage if everybody dog piles the lowest, slowest, con. However, if they all start at ground level and work up, there IS an advantage for the planes that climb better. It's one of the few small advantages the C.205 has going for it, so you better learn to use it.
If you fly a C.205 and don't take fights uphill in the MAs, you're just not doing it right :)
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I really like the fact that you can get close enough to a c205 with a c202 before the icon lets the c205 know he's about to get smoked.
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Because then everyone will spawn off these 10k fields and simply dive downhill on the most cherry-like target below them with no need for skill. Trust me, that's how every H2H room did it, that's how the TA/DA has always done it.
There's no advantage if everybody dog piles the lowest, slowest, con. However, if they all start at ground level and work up, there IS an advantage for the planes that climb better. It's one of the few small advantages the C.205 has going for it, so you better learn to use it.
If you fly a C.205 and don't take fights uphill in the MAs, you're just not doing it right :)
You seem to be saying two things now. Now your saying bring the 205 low and use its ROC against the hordes of Spits, Nikis, KI's, 109s, LAs, 190s, that outclimb you and mostly out turn you? Let alone the "E" fighters coming in at 450 mph of smash? From what I can see the only chance in a 205 is to come in with air under you and fly it like a 38. Unfortunatly the dynamics of the game makes it a low Alt game most of the time.
Now if a base is it 10 or 15 k, and another team wants to capture it it would be reasonable to think they cant go below 10 or 15 k to capture it. Or even vulch it. So the high altitude interceptors, like the 205, would have the advantage. Or at least be equalized more. This is a 400 mph + fighter at 20k or more.
Just seems to me any climb advantage at 5k or less is kinda negated by being a bow wow with speed and at best a marginal turner.
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no rich, you dont seem to get it. never mind.
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The 109G-2 is faster, better climbing and will fly circles around the C.205....
And yet the G-2 has an ENY of 30 while the 205 has 25. :lol
But I stopped trying to understand the 109 series ENY values when the G-14 went from 20 to 25 instead of lowering the K-4's from 20 to 15 or even less. For now I just enjoy the easily generated perks... :noid
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And yet the G-2 has an ENY of 30 while the 205 has 25. :lol
But I stopped trying to understand the 109 series ENY values when the G-14 went from 20 to 25 instead of lowering the K-4's from 20 to 15 or even less. For now I just enjoy the easily generated perks... :noid
Lusche, there you go making sense again! I think too much empethes is put on weapons and not enough on overall performance. While the G2 is superior in many ways the 205 has more firepower. The K4's eny value is supposed to be tied to the 30mm gun and it's difficult ballistics but it's dominating performance is overlooked...... :noid
:salute
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no rich, you dont seem to get it. never mind.
Im very patient if you care to post "exactly" how you recomend flying the thing. It just seems to me like your saying two conflicting things.
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You seem to be saying two things now. Now your saying bring the 205 low and use its ROC against the hordes of Spits, Nikis, KI's, 109s, LAs, 190s, that outclimb you and mostly out turn you? Let alone the "E" fighters coming in at 450 mph of smash? From what I can see the only chance in a 205 is to come in with air under you and fly it like a 38. Unfortunatly the dynamics of the game makes it a low Alt game most of the time.
Now if a base is it 10 or 15 k, and another team wants to capture it it would be reasonable to think they cant go below 10 or 15 k to capture it. Or even vulch it. So the high altitude interceptors, like the 205, would have the advantage. Or at least be equalized more. This is a 400 mph + fighter at 20k or more.
Just seems to me any climb advantage at 5k or less is kinda negated by being a bow wow with speed and at best a marginal turner.
It seems to me that he is saying "fly it from a perch". Start at a mid alt and attack cons at the same alt, maybe a bit lower. Fight the fight up where the other planes have a harder time to go. Maintain a ceiling, don't follow/chase bogies down. Make them come UP to you. Force them to fight your fight where you can use the few advantages the 205 has.
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It seems to me that he is saying "fly it from a perch". Start at a mid alt and attack cons at the same alt, maybe a bit lower. Fight the fight up where the other planes have a harder time to go. Maintain a ceiling, don't follow/chase bogies down. Make them come UP to you. Force them to fight your fight where you can use the few advantages the 205 has.
Maybe, but the comment about 'giving up' your ROC advantage doesn't really fit in with this. If you start high and BnZ those below, you don't give up any advantages. You still have the advantage in climb, you simply don't need to utilize it.
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Nobody said anything about "starting high". I said mid alts 7-12k. Most fights are below that. Park your self between the base and a fight and shake your tail at those climbing out to the fight. You'll find your self plenty of takers..... and scalps.
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First of all, I don't find it true that all my 205 fights end up on the deck. In fact rarely do they. Further, it's not a downhill fighter. It's an uphill fighter. It can regain E with copious WEP usage and climb over other targets, so why would you want to start high and give your one advantage (rate of climb) away?
I'm well aware of how to effectively use the C.205. I remember when I was on a roll with it, me and about 4 others were playing some agressive defense, and intercepting incoming attackers. Our base was a bit higher, so I would generally come in a couple thousand feet above them catch them still clawing for altitude.
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First of all, I don't find it true that all my 205 fights end up on the deck. In fact rarely do they. Further, it's not a downhill fighter. It's an uphill fighter. It can regain E with copious WEP usage and climb over other targets, so why would you want to start high and give your one advantage (rate of climb) away?
Thats what he is saying, why start high? Come in at mid alt and use your climb to drag the bad guys up to you.
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As I understood it, he was saying 'why start high(er than your opponent) and give up your one advantage'.
That might not be what he was saying, but thats how I took it.
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if I were you guys I would not listen to Krusty when it comes to fighting.....
no disrespect Krusty..... I call it the way I see it, your just not that good at it.....
and yes I will go to DA anytime.
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if I were you guys I would not listen to Krusty when it comes to fighting.....
no disrespect Krusty..... I call it the way I see it, your just not that good at it.....
and yes I will go to DA anytime.
sounds personal to me you could have easily taken the high road on this one.
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sounds personal to me you could have easily taken the high road on this one.
ahhhh....just ribbin krusty a bit is all :noid