Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Flench on June 20, 2012, 09:53:02 AM
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My 94 ranger has lost its brakes . I have to pump them to stop . What is that ? need new booster ? I just put new pads on front and a new brake caliber on the front right , it was froze up . HELPPPP ...
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My 94 ranger has lost its brakes . I have to pump them to stop . What is that ? need new booster ? I just put new pads on front and a new brake caliber on the front right , it was froze up . HELPPPP ...
Did you bleed the brakes after installing the caliper? If not, air in the line will cause a spongy feel and can also cause you to need to pump them. Air compresses, fluid does not.
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I did my best by myself . I ran a line into a cup of fluid and pumped them that way . Did fine for around 300 miles and just started the spongy feel .
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Dirty brake fluid will do it, too.
Have a friend help bleed. Much more effecient.
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If you very recently did something and that's the system that isn't working I wouldn't throw parts at it yet. (I wish my airplane manufacturer understood this concept... :bhead)
Do a thorough bleed of the whole brake system first and go from there. Check that the pads were installed correctly and showing wear where they're supposed to and go from there.
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I did my best by myself . I ran a line into a cup of fluid and pumped them that way . Did fine for around 300 miles and just started the spongy feel .
OK.... if it was fine after you changed the caliper then went away after some miles I would say master cylinder or booster. Turn off all fans radio and such inside. Press on brakes. Does the engine idle up or do you hear a hiss.
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OK.... if it was fine after you changed the caliper then went away after some miles I would say master cylinder or booster. Turn off all fans radio and such inside. Press on brakes. Does the engine idle up or do you hear a hiss.
No hiss Shuffler , all ready checked for that . Got to be air then ?? engine is norm.
Von , I ran alot of fluid through it when i bled it .
Golfer , I put the pads on so I no there right .
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If no hiss then it will most likely be the master cylinder.
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If no hiss then it will most likely be the master cylinder.
Rgr , I was scared of that . Can they be rebuilt or should I just buy a new one ?
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Rgr , I was scared of that . Can they be rebuilt or should I just buy a new one ?
They can be rebuilt but I prefer new.
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They can be rebuilt but I prefer new.
Thanks guy's <S>
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had a booster go in my 90 gmc z71 and the pedal was so hard it took both feet to get it to stop, sounds like a bad master.
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had a booster go in my 90 gmc z71 and the pedal was so hard it took both feet to get it to stop, sounds like a bad master.
Yup.
When the booster goes it can cause the pedal to go almost to the floor also. In which case folks will pump to get every bit out of the brakes.
... oh and you're most welcome Flench!
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Thanks again Shuffler , I hope you going to be around today I mite have another question . Fixing to jump on it now . I am going to go a head and buy a new caliber for the other side where they both be new then do a brake bleed and if that dont work I will go back to town and get the booster or I mite just buy it while Im at it and if I do not need it I will carry it back . Just depends on if there is a core charge or not . <S>
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When the caliper was replaced, the entire master cylinder drained.
The master cylinder needs bleeding.
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When the caliper was replaced, the entire master cylinder drained.
The master cylinder needs bleeding.
He said he put about 300 miles on it after the caliper change and all was fine.
Flench always a good idea to change the calipers together.
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Yup.
When the booster goes it can cause the pedal to go almost to the floor also. In which case folks will pump to get every bit out of the brakes.
... oh and you're most welcome Flench!
Unless you do not have a proportioning valve, like in my '64 Valiant.
Blew one of the hard lines (had a rusty bubble in it) Pedal went to floor and stayed there :O
Pumping just helped to evacuate the remaining fluid :noid
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Well CRAP ! Got the new caliper on now and I have no brakes . All the way to the floor and well not pup up at all . So now both front calipers are new . Got a friend coming over to help me re-bleed it and see what happens , errrrr .. GO from there I guess .
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Look's like your going to be right Shuffler . Got the HISS now . Brake booster time . Time to pull out the book . Never replaced a booster before that I can remember .
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Before you throw more parts at it, start from scratch and re bleed the system. It worked fine before you put that first caliper on and didn't after. While things happen I'm not sold on that being a coincidence from on my comfortable air conditioned living room.
My point is I'm not there and haven't seen it personally but that's where I'm inclined to look before dropping more money in parts.
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Before you throw more parts at it, start from scratch and re bleed the system. It worked fine before you put that first caliper on and didn't after. While things happen I'm not sold on that being a coincidence from on my comfortable air conditioned living room.
My point is I'm not there and haven't seen it personally but that's where I'm inclined to look before dropping more money in parts.
Not being there is a good point always. Golfer the brakes worked for some time after he put the caliper on.
I asked about the hiss earlier because I wanted to make sure that the booster was not the problem. You will usually hear a hiss and the engine surge a bit when the diaphram breaks. The brake pedal will go way down also.
If there is no hiss or engine surge then it points to the master cylinder.
One has to check all points to make an intelligent decision...... and save money. Just throwing parts at a problem usually turns into an expensive affair. :)
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Yeah but "around 300 miles" can be half a days drive too. He didn't mention how long in calendar time things took to seek spongy. Depending on the type of driving or a number of different factors the problem may (and only may) have not manifested immediately. Air getting in from somewhere else. Loose bleeder screw. Leak in a line.
I'm not an expert but I think that's somewhat sensible. Checking that the pads are showing equal wear and giving the whole thing a once over won't hurt.
I'm sure we've all paid that tax by putting something on we didn't need at one time or another. A seized tension pulley on my AC system for my old truck caused the belt to break. I assumed it was the compressor so that's what I bought and installed only to find after the fact a $30 pulley was the fix rather than the $300 compressor. Oops.
BTDT, just trying to help :)
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Yeah but "around 300 miles" can be half a days drive too. He didn't mention how long in calendar time things took to seek spongy. Depending on the type of driving or a number of different factors the problem may (and only may) have not manifested immediately. Air getting in from somewhere else. Loose bleeder screw. Leak in a line.
I'm not an expert but I think that's somewhat sensible. Checking that the pads are showing equal wear and giving the whole thing a once over won't hurt.
I'm sure we've all paid that tax by putting something on we didn't need at one time or another. A seized tension pulley on my AC system for my old truck caused the belt to break. I assumed it was the compressor so that's what I bought and installed only to find after the fact a $30 pulley was the fix rather than the $300 compressor. Oops.
BTDT, just trying to help :)
Exactly!
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OK , Had a leak in the right front line . Fixed it but did not fix the problem . The motor runs fine no change when the pedal is pushed . Pedal goes to the floor now . Will not pump at all . I bleed all the lines and no air came out just fluid and it had pressure coming out . It has that hiss when you push the pedal down then stops . So what does that sound like now ?
Thanks for helping guys !
Oh , the wear on the front pads look even with just little wear but I just put them on a few month back myself . Piece of cake on a old ford .
EDIT: I'm just going back with all new stuff . Screw it .
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Don't forget to get a new vacuum line. Rubber hose is cheap....Also if you replace the booster and mastercylinder watch the length of the rods for your adjustments. Its been a long time since I have done a booster. The last I did was on a 68 ford 4x4.
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hmmmmm just a thought..................ABS?????? when I bought my blazer put all new lines and brakes all the way around, when it came to bleeding fronts bled out, but the rear wheel cylinders just a dribble of fluid but it did bleed out, same deal no pedal. So I disconnected the rear lines at abs module and conected that to the proportioning valve bypassing the abs. whalla brakes bled right and had a good pedal, that was around 5 years ago. and no abs light on either :aok my bosses van was the same way everything bled rears just dribbled not a good stream, so he junked it 800 for the module, was 750 for the module in mine. just a thought hope this isnt it :pray
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OK cattb , thanks for the tip .
Not sure about the ABS homer .
The truck 94 ranger 4X4. Got all new lines ran .
(http://i1025.photobucket.com/albums/y313/LittleGeorgeJr/S2010008-4.jpg)
The Master cylinder , seems fine .
(http://i1025.photobucket.com/albums/y313/LittleGeorgeJr/S2010003-9.jpg)
Now for the Booster
(http://i1025.photobucket.com/albums/y313/LittleGeorgeJr/S2010004-9.jpg)
My shop
(http://i1025.photobucket.com/albums/y313/LittleGeorgeJr/S2010002-9.jpg)
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The auto parts store sells cans of battery cable protector to....I can see little of the junk that looks to be growing on your cables. ( looks that way from the picture, I could be wrong) I bought a can 15 years ago, don't have the name off hand and I am still using it. Only takes a little bout once a year.
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It looks like the master cylinder has been leaking for awhile and it has probably taken the booster out as well.
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The auto parts store sells cans of battery cable protector to....I can see little of the junk that looks to be growing on your cables. ( looks that way from the picture, I could be wrong) I bought a can 15 years ago, don't have the name off hand and I am still using it. Only takes a little bout once a year.
I will ask about it . Never heard of it . I sprayed it with PB blaster and will put a new one on in the morning .
@ SIK1 , yeah I think you are right .
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Long time leak there.
As for the battery cable connectors..... you can clean them well, reconnect, then just pour some coca cola over them. It dries and leaves a coat that protects the connectors from corrosion.
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I have heard about the cola just never have tryed it . About got the booster off . Is there a way to check it ? see if it's good .
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Flench,
Put a penny on the terminals,it will corrode and the battery terminals wont!
Works like the zinc tabs on your boat motor! only cost 2 cents too!! :devil
:salute
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Never herd of coke or a penny before. I used to use grease, awful messy though.
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Flench,
Put a penny on the terminals,it will corrode and the battery terminals wont!
Works like the zinc tabs on your boat motor! only cost 2 cents too!! :devil
:salute
WOW Cool ! Never heard of that one thanks . I will try it .
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WOW Cool ! Never heard of that one thanks . I will try it .
An old mech's trick taught to me by an old mech..... :devil It works pretty good too,you can stick the penny with a bad of grease or bend the penny in a vise and then just secure it with the cable terminals. The copper conducts well so it wont affect power delivery,oh and they last a fair length of time also.
:salute
PS: I believe the term is sacrificial anode
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Well I'm sure going to try it . I now how well zinc work's on a boat . Same princeable .
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Well I'm sure going to try it . I now how well zinc work's on a boat . Same princeable .
Sacrificial anode on boats and underwater equipment works to deter rust and corrosion. We use them on sub sea often.
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My 94 ranger has lost its brakes . I have to pump them to stop . What is that ? need new booster ? I just put new pads on front and a new brake caliber on the front right , it was froze up . HELPPPP ...
if you replaced that caliper, you're gonna hafta bleed the brakes. if you're lucky, you should only have to bleed that wheel....but you should do all four, just to be safe.
if you didn't replace that caliper, and it froze up again, that right there will make you have to pump the pedal. i just had an explorer in from another shop the other day. they did front brake a couple months ago, guy was never happy with the pedal. the caliper slide bushings were siezed in the caliper. i removed them, cleaned them, lubricated, and reassembled with new pads(old ones were glazed), and they're perfect now.
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Hey CAP . I replaced the one on the right front about a month ago because it was freezing up . So when I did I put new pads on and bleed the front two . Work fine say for a month but the pedal never did feel right then it started gettin spongy the all way to floor . Thinking it mite be the left side now I replaced it and bleed it all and nothing . I got it apart now so I am going back with new stuff .
I am going to have to buy a brake bleeding tool beause its hard to get help down here where I am at and I don't have time to wait on someone to show up every time I need to do this .
Thanks for the help .
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Hey CAP . I replaced the one on the right front about a month ago because it was freezing up . So when I did I put new pads on and bleed the front two . Work fine say for a month but the pedal never did feel right then it started gettin spongy the all way to floor . Thinking it mite be the left side now I replaced it and bleed it all and nothing . I got it apart now so I am going back with new stuff .
I am going to have to buy a brake bleeding tool beause its hard to get help down here where I am at and I don't have time to wait on someone to show up every time I need to do this .
Thanks for the help .
besides the calipers themselves, check the pins. if those get tight(and they're commonly tight on fords), they'll cause this.
if you've got power seats, find a broomstick, and cut it so you can depress the brake pedal with it, and wedge it on the cushion portion of the seat. move the seat forward slightly, go crack the bleeder, and then use the switch to move the seat forward again. close the bleeder, and repeat.
also, make doubly sure that everything is tight. going gradually like that almost sounds like it's been sucking air into itself somewhere.
and sorry 'bout taking so long to get back to ya.
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Thanks CAP ,
I am driving my F150 so no hurry thanks for your reply and thanks for the TIP never thought of doing it that way , cool thx .
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Thanks CAP ,
I am driving my F150 so no hurry thanks for your reply and thanks for the TIP never thought of doing it that way , cool thx .
no problem.
wanna hear a funny one?
got a98 f150 4.2, 5 speed, 2 wheel drive. customer requested diagnose cel on, and front brakes.
i order pads, and go do the cavalier heater core while i wait for the stuff to get here. pads come in, so i go onto that truck. p/s caliper siezed. no problem. i call the customer, and he ok's it. when it finally gets to me, in install it, and start bleeding it. just as i'm getting a good pedal, i hear pppppsssshhhhhhhh from the rear of the truck.
drivers side steel brake line rotted through, just above the fuel tank. it's so badly rotted, that i have to replace around 10 feet of steel brake line. and i had to call him, and tell him this. but then it's better to have happened on my lift, than out on the road.
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yup been there done that, I have learned being up here in vermont when I replace a line to the rear wheel cyl I just replace every line to the rear, as the get tender around where they sit next to or on the frame. we replace a front rubber hose on a friends truck, as we were bleeding the driverside rear went, then the main to the rear went. :bhead lots of brake lines that day friggin salt
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no problem.
wanna hear a funny one?
got a98 f150 4.2, 5 speed, 2 wheel drive. customer requested diagnose cel on, and front brakes.
i order pads, and go do the cavalier heater core while i wait for the stuff to get here. pads come in, so i go onto that truck. p/s caliper siezed. no problem. i call the customer, and he ok's it. when it finally gets to me, in install it, and start bleeding it. just as i'm getting a good pedal, i hear pppppsssshhhhhhhh from the rear of the truck.
drivers side steel brake line rotted through, just above the fuel tank. it's so badly rotted, that i have to replace around 10 feet of steel brake line. and i had to call him, and tell him this. but then it's better to have happened on my lift, than out on the road.
Good thing it happen on the rack or it would have run him more mony too .
I have had people tell me about the salt doing in lines and so on but we are lucky down here where they just use it a few times a year .
Thanks again men <S>
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yup been there done that, I have learned being up here in vermont when I replace a line to the rear wheel cyl I just replace every line to the rear, as the get tender around where they sit next to or on the frame. we replace a front rubber hose on a friends truck, as we were bleeding the driverside rear went, then the main to the rear went. :bhead lots of brake lines that day friggin salt
you guys use brine on the roads up there in the winter?
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Good thing it happen on the rack or it would have run him more mony too .
I have had people tell me about the salt doing in lines and so on but we are lucky down here where they just use it a few times a year .
Thanks again men <S>
it's not so much the salt.......although it's corrosive, it's mostly solid, and doesn't stay.......mostly.
what's been making the problems around here, is that for nearly 10 years now, the dot's been using brine when there's predictions of snow, or if there's any possibility that the road's gonna freeze. that's basically liquified salt, with some other crap in it. THIS stuff is stupidly corrosive, and since the salt's already liquified, when it gets up under your car, it sticks.
for about 7 or so years, i've been doing many many more brake lines than i used to do. it's almost predictable where they'll rot through, based on make/model, but no one manufacturer is more or less susceptible to this than the other.
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yeah they "presalt" prior to a storm using something not salt not sure what it is, but in the summer they also use it on dirt roads to keep dust down. So even in the summer your vehicle is rotting. its all a conspiracy :noid we pay sales tax when we register our vehicles, which is used to salt the roads, which in 5 years your car is rotten so you have to buy a new car and more sales tax. yeah its so predictable, gm trucks-rear bumpers(no matter the year) rear main brake line just behind cab, and gas cap covers why I have no idea. fords the frames rot just behind cab same as gm and toyotas well everything rots on them lol.
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Corrosion induces an electrical current,salt and water make a good electrolyte and thus increases the rate of corrosion.
When it's below freezing corrosion is slowed down but the salt/salt brines lower the freezing point and this along with the electrolytic qualities increase the rate of corrosion.
They've tried many methods to stop this process,in oceanliners they send an electrical current to "jam" the corrosion current and it's somewhat effective,this is used in cars also but it's not very effective because there are too many insulators that stop the current from flowing effectively.
The best solution is to use an oil type spray and apply it annually,all those wax base and tar base coating do is hide the rust and infact promote it by trapping moisture between the coatings.
If you live in an area where they salt the roads,the worse thing you can do is store the car inside in a warm area,this just speeds up the process.
YMMV.
:salute
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that's why my gt doesn't come out if there's even a hint of snow. or rain.
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that's why my gt doesn't come out if there's even a hint of snow. or rain.
Ahh but what about condensation? Ever heat your car on a cool day?
Water forms against the panels,remember most panels are drip panels and thats why you have drains,so you dont have to drive in rain or snow.Then there's those scenic trips to the ocean,salt air gets trapped in the strangest places!
Like Neil said "rust never sleeps",unless you live in an extremely dry area you will develope some type of corrosion. It's only natural the steel is trying to turn back to iron oxide like it was before we messed with it.
If you want your car to last a long time,have it coated with a light oil,preferably designed for the purpose and not just used engine oil,and wash and wax the car on a regular basis. Also dont over look those drains,doors and rockers particulary,clean and make sure they are clear.
YMMV.
:salute
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CAP , They mite not use salt down here . I know it's got white rock in it and something else but we don't have that corrosion problem . I will have to ask and find out .
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Just took the booster off and its rusted out on the bottom side bad .
(http://i1025.photobucket.com/albums/y313/LittleGeorgeJr/S2010001-10.jpg)
But I can not tell where the fluid was coming from . Look's clean on the Master cylinder . Well not realy clean but it does not look like it hasbeen leaking .
(http://i1025.photobucket.com/albums/y313/LittleGeorgeJr/S2010002-10.jpg)
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That master cylinder is done.
I've run into many cars where the rust and other debris gets between the piston and the retaining clip which causes the piston to not retract enough to open a certain port.
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That master cylinder is done.
I've run into many cars where the rust and other debris gets between the piston and the retaining clip which causes the piston to not retract enough to open a certain port.
That's what I thought . You know Napa has a $40 dollar core charge on the booser . Now what are the going to do with that old booster ?
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replace em both. the seals in the master are gone. best to not put that booster back in, since there's been brake fluid in there. besides it's already off.
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replace em both. the seals in the master are gone. best to not put that booster back in, since there's been brake fluid in there. besides it's already off.
Ok CAP1 , Well do and thanks ..
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Wow that is a nasty looking booster.
Never skimp on your brakes.
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Wow that is a nasty looking booster.
Never skimp on your brakes.
I just got the truck a few years back from a young man going off to war . He had riped out the trans so I had to go in and rebuild it and put a new clutch in it and it has been a good truck up till now . I have put it through the meal though hunting and running dog's out of it . Not counting the hole I shot in the hood shooting a running deer through my scope and lost the tailgate too , lol .
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I just got the truck a few years back from a young man going off to war . He had riped out the trans so I had to go in and rebuild it and put a new clutch in it and it has been a good truck up till now . I have put it through the meal though hunting and running dog's out of it . Not counting the hole I shot in the hood shooting a running deer through my scope and lost the tailgate too , lol .
Ahhh war stories. :D
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I tell ya Shuffler . I did not think I would like the truck when I first got it but after I put a 3 inch lef ket on it and new tire's it turned out real well . I like it now and with the 4.0 V 6 in it , it does real well . Has plenty of power to just chug right on through those bad spot's and get's pretty good gas mileage .
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I just got the truck a few years back from a young man going off to war . He had riped out the trans so I had to go in and rebuild it and put a new clutch in it and it has been a good truck up till now . I have put it through the meal though hunting and running dog's out of it . Not counting the hole I shot in the hood shooting a running deer through my scope and lost the tailgate too , lol .
You still looking for a cap? I had one on my Ranger that I forgot was sitting behind the garage at my mother-in-law's.
Gray. Fit on my '86 Ranger. Your's if you want to pick it up.
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I got it VonMessa but thank you very much for the offer <S> .