Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Mano on July 10, 2012, 10:11:03 PM
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Bring Artillery to the Main War Arena.
GV's could call in the direction and distance with a simple dot command.
The nearest GV bases could fire on enemy positions. The further the distance from the nearest GV base,
the less accurate the strike becomes. A barrage of 15 to 20 shells would do nicely. If your spawn is camped...
...... ..you have another weapon to help break it up, provided you can get behind a berm
to call in the strike. If you are attacking a field you could take down a hangar, ords, or guns calling
in barrages.
It would add another element to main arena we haven't seen yet.
What was that guys name in "Kelly's Heroes" that kept missing the target?
I think it was Sergeant Mulligan.......we don't him calling in barrages. :D
:salute
Mano
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Bring Artillery to the Main War Arena.
GV's could call in the direction and distance with a simple dot command.
The nearest GV bases could fire on enemy positions. The further the distance from the nearest GV base,
the less accurate the strike becomes. A barrage of 15 to 20 shells would do nicely. If your spawn is camped...
...... ..you have another weapon to help break it up, provided you can get behind a berm
to call in the strike. If you are attacking a field you could take down a hangar, ords, or guns calling
in barrages.
It would add another element to main arena we haven't seen yet.
What was that guys name in "Kelly's Heroes" that kept missing the target?
I think it was Sergeant Mulligan.......we don't him calling in barrages. :D
:salute
Mano
15 to 20 shells? You trying to level the base in a single fire for effect?
If you are going to have arty make it manned, people in Arty will be told via room text where to change left right add or drop.....closer to real life.
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I'm all for it, my guess is the game would be more spread out and fluid if there were more ways to move the frontier.
I dunno, was on last evening, 300 dudes all at six fields.
Variety baby, ya gotta love it.
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Artillery is so incredibly inaccurate, just like high alt bombing even with the norton bombsight.
20 Shells fired at a town you are lucky to have a handful hitting buildings, so trying to barrage a spawn camp is not going to happen you simply will go through hundreds of shells and not likely hit something.
Indirect fire is what you are asking, has a very low accuracy rating, Direct firing is not likely since most tanks are armed with HE Rounds, which require you to be on top of a tank before possibly getting a kill.
better logical ideas that came up with have some sort of way to fire it like a 5 inch gun off a ship - you can dial the range in, but still the chances of actually hitting something are going to be slim.
Not even sure how you can dial indirect fire in either, I can see direct.
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Could you do the same for direct fire as is done from the cruiser currently? I suppose the cruiser stuff is technically speaking direct, but I never really see it connect...
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Could you do the same for direct fire as is done from the cruiser currently? I suppose the cruiser stuff is technically speaking direct, but I never really see it connect...
To not change the tank designs - I think the Commander view for the Artillery Support Guns would be its best option, I am not entirely sure how you can range with these tanks either.
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49MERLIN and myself have used the 88s in this effect using one of us as a paratrooper to help the other range but its rediculiously hard to do and not effective.
if HTC would give is say a 5 gun battery and a way to range like the cv. or be able to have a way to see the range of the general location of the enemy say within 500 meters then it would be easier but not so easy that everyone could rape the tanks. with in 500 you would still need someone to spot to "walk in" the shells. the reason no one succesfully uses 88 or the 17lbers is because they cant get ranged anywhere near the enemy you ofter under shoot 1.5-5k or over shoot and equal distance. if you could get within 500meters the friendlies could help walk you in. and with a gun battery with 3-6 guns you could have a small barrage effect, with both 88 or 17lber batteries manned you have 6-12 guns makeing the arty of the game look feel and affect the battle more realistically. this is a thing that would add greatly to the game.
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+1 to artillery concept I like the idea ya know for breaking up spawn camps and the idea for a pilot on the ground to be the forward observer or replace the pilot with the jeep or something along those lines
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It's gonna be the same as dropping bombs from 15K into a GV spawn. Highly unlikely you'll hit anything.
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Artillery is so incredibly inaccurate, just like high alt bombing even with the norton bombsight.
Without the features to support artillery, I agree that it would be inaccurate. However, if features were added to support artillery that would allow ranging and spotting of targets, artillery would not be incredibly inaccurate. In real life, artillery used in WW2 was not terribly inaccurate and with proper ranging and spotting, was quite accurate.
ack-ack
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Without the features to support artillery, I agree that it would be inaccurate. However, if features were added to support artillery that would allow ranging and spotting of targets, artillery would not be incredibly inaccurate. In real life, artillery used in WW2 was not terribly inaccurate and with proper ranging and spotting, was quite accurate.
ack-ack
Exactly correct, much hasn't changed with normal mortar or Arty rounds these days....forward observers can bracket rounds into 50 meters for a 4-5 round fire for effect mission.
That's why I'm thinking guys on ground or in planes could bracket them in via room chat.
:salute
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Jeep formations with towed arty guns. 30 second set up time to deploy the guns. Maybe m3s with towed pieces.
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First I don't know how you will move your artillery group around or if it will be fixed. You guys can wish for that.
When you spawn or take control of your artillery position you have two postions like in a GV.
1. - Gun adjuster and fire.
2. - Forward Spotter and fire.
The adjuster\spotter has a quarter pie grid that follows the muzzle of the cannons. The radius is the max range of the cannon(s), with a movable spotter's jump spawn arrow. He places the arrow where he wants to jump to and becomes the same as a parachuted pilot walking around. Instead of calling coordinates and fire, he uses his grid to estimate direction, distance and elevation. Presses a fire button and watches the effect. If the effect is off he hops back to the guns and adjusts. He can kill himself with his own fire and the enemy can kill him if spotted. Give him an icon with a "SP" on it.
a. - To keep him from being a free ranging grifer or hiding in maprooms, he isn't equipped with a firearm. Running fast and position change is his defence. He can augment the Storch as a spotter or work with a Storch spotting for him. He can flip the finger to enemy spotters and goons.
b. - He should have more than one spotter life (3 - 5) but, his life is ultimatly tied to the gun(s) destruction.
c. - Include mannable\auto antiair defences with the gun group(???)
d. - If multiple guns in this scenario, a fixed pattern is fired, or the adjuster has a "short" menu of patterns. All guns slaved to a primary used for all adjustments.
Down sides:
1. - Boring and lots of work.
2. - Over used to local spot\spy hidden tanks versus artillery spotting.
3. - Used to spot\spy suspected mission spawning feilds to call in 262 if this battery can spawn like a GV and has no perk cost. Spawn in, spawn spotter to the maximum gun range towards the airfield. Spot planes until jabo kills guns. Repeat or bring back freinds.
4. - Might become a spawn camping nightmare if cannon size HE round is seriously destructive to tanks. Or to CV groups and assult craft too close to shore.
5. - Vulnerable once spotted due to fixed nature.
6. - A really clunky cludgy gamey process if this battery can move as a mobile unit setting up and tearing down. Spotter spying abuses would be mostly tied to a mobile battery being GV spawnable into locations.
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Without the features to support artillery, I agree that it would be inaccurate. However, if features were added to support artillery that would allow ranging and spotting of targets, artillery would not be incredibly inaccurate. In real life, artillery used in WW2 was not terribly inaccurate and with proper ranging and spotting, was quite accurate.
ack-ack
Yeah I am assuming it would be without features to support it - being Bombers don't exactly need gunners to operate, neither would artillery in that sense - but I am kinda curious what kind of features would work? I mean 8 inchers need eyes to hit town - artillery I guess would be in the same sense would make it quite nice.
I am assuming this based on the M7 Priest which I think would be the artillery of choice, not sure about Tow'd since we have no way to dismount - remount artillery pieces.
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Since historically most WWII casualties were caused by artillery, we have the potential here for a whole slew of game-distruptive effects. These effects might not be "fun" for most players. For example, I can imagine this ruining the GV game. Ground attack aircraft are bad enough, such that GVing with any significant number of them up is an exercise in frustration, but at least they have limited ammo.
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MH
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We already have somewhat of a mobile artillery platform, the LVT4 with its 75mm pack howitzer that is perfect for both direct and indirect fire.
ack-ack
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We already have somewhat of a mobile artillery platform, the LVT4 with its 75mm pack howitzer that is perfect for both direct and indirect fire.
ack-ack
Yes but they are strictly used for direct fire, how would say for example an m7 Priest use indirect fire? you would need someone to direct the artillery rounds incomming to shoot over a hill, even then how would one gauge where the shells land?
If so I agree with it, most mobile artillery pieces were open top - one aircraft could easily disable or destroy them (lack of armor also).
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Not even sure how you can dial indirect fire in either, I can see direct.
Perhaps make it sort of like the land-gunner mode on CV guns. You click on a map and it gives you a range and bearing from your current estimated location, and the current estimated location of the target.
You have to manually bring your gun to bear on the target, and the gun will shift due to recoil, just like in real life, so you have to manually re-aim.
The longer you stay in one location (say, within 100yds, to let you move so you're not hitting a building or a tree or something when you fire), the more accurate the estimate of your possition, and your target, thus letting you be more precise in your gunnery.
After, say, 15 minutes, I could see someone being able to drop shells on a hanger, or a cluster of buildings with reasonable reliability.
Maybe give us the Wespe, and the M7 priest?
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I think the best artie in the game right now is the M4A3(75) when firing from a point of elevation advatage and from the commanders position. Even from level ground it is quite possible to hit objects at 15k or better. Even if the 88s were made into towable objects it would take more time and be less effective than the M4 already is.
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I think the best artie in the game right now is the M4A3(75) when firing from a point of elevation advatage and from the commanders position. Even from level ground it is quite possible to hit objects at 15k or better. Even if the 88s were made into towable objects it would take more time and be less effective than the M4 already is.
I find it a bit questionable that you could hit even an individual town building from 15k, much less something like an ord bunker or anything smaller.
Hell, even trying to SEE an individual town building from 15k (better than 8 1/2 miles) would be a challenge in and of itself on some computers. Seeing the shell hit, and adjusting at that range is another thing entirely.
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I think the best artie in the game right now is the M4A3(75) when firing from a point of elevation advatage and from the commanders position. Even from level ground it is quite possible to hit objects at 15k or better. Even if the 88s were made into towable objects it would take more time and be less effective than the M4 already is.
This is what I am thinking, instead add the M4(105) or Stuh 42 - it would require direct attacks on the town, however the damage radius would be quite increased, it could still be indirect - however unless someone actively watches where the rounds land it would be useless otherwise.
This being said, for example stuh 42 would not be issued hallow shaped ammo, for the time being it would be classified as strictly artillery.
As far as indirect artillery, I don't think gameplay has expanded enough to furfill these roles yet.
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I can do it easily with that tank. Sorry you havent figured out how yet. :rock
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I can do it easily with that tank. Sorry you havent figured out how yet. :rock
You'd have to be on a mountain, and be using the highest game resolution to do this, I think. If you would be so kind as to elaborate, what game resolution do you use? :-) MH
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I can do it easily with that tank. Sorry you havent figured out how yet. :rock
Interesting because I train tankers, i'd like for you to show me how you Direct fire on a town behind two hills and hit buildings without a LOS.
Film please.
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People are mistaking indirect fire with Plunging fire......used very often with weapons like the M2.
:salute
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I thought you guys were attempting to design artillery as a programatical function module within the current game framework? Most of you appere to have impressive real life resumes that generate some fascinating whizzing matches in the middle of these game fuction design discussions.
Artillery as fixed batteries, mobile batteries, or single mobile unit will work in this game if HTC wants to program in the functions and create the 3D modeling. The static 88's and 17lb prove this. But, will it add anything to the overall game flow process?
So far the 88's nor the 17lb are installed in the logical strategic positions for long range feild defence from tank assults. Very often your line of fire is into trees while the tanks are able to gain superior LoS to your fixed position and kill you first. The 88's are still being learned by players as air defence guns which they seem to be used for more often. So far the longest kill shot I've acheived with an 88 AP round was 8k on a wirbel. If I had instead been in control of a battery. I could have used single ranging shots then selected battery fire and dropped multiple HE on that wirbel instead of pot shot ranging it with a lucky kill shot.
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The way I learned indirect fire was by going to V88 on ozkansas and firing on V103. I can sit on the concrete of V88 with an M4A3(75) and kill all of the guns and hangars. It wasnt that long ago that I sat there and kept 103 dead for more than two hours. Sorry you missed that. I was told 200 was full of "C" words.
You can do the same thing from maximum range in the M4 and drop towns although someone has to be in the air to tell you which building you have hit. After that it is simply a matter of slight aim point corrections.
When I sit on a 9.5k mountain and use plunging fire on a vbase (which I have done numerous times) the enemy will not even see the base flashing. With resupply I can kill all of the guns the hangars and make any vehicle on the field miserable from all the hits they hear. A 9.5k elevation with a horizontal offset of 6k gives a firing distance of about 11.25k while shooting at objects on the far side of the field will be shots of about 12.5k.
While 15k shots are exceptional they are also rarely needed but nonetheless possible.
Film wont help you.
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First I don't know how you will move your artillery group around or if it will be fixed. You guys can wish for that.
When you spawn or take control of your artillery position you have two postions like in a GV.
1. - Gun adjuster and fire.
2. - Forward Spotter and fire.
The adjuster\spotter has a quarter pie grid that follows the muzzle of the cannons. The radius is the max range of the cannon(s), with a movable spotter's jump spawn arrow. He places the arrow where he wants to jump to and becomes the same as a parachuted pilot walking around. Instead of calling coordinates and fire, he uses his grid to estimate direction, distance and elevation. Presses a fire button and watches the effect. If the effect is off he hops back to the guns and adjusts. He can kill himself with his own fire and the enemy can kill him if spotted. Give him an icon with a "SP" on it.
a. - To keep him from being a free ranging grifer or hiding in maprooms, he isn't equipped with a firearm. Running fast and position change is his defence. He can augment the Storch as a spotter or work with a Storch spotting for him. He can flip the finger to enemy spotters and goons.
b. - He should have more than one spotter life (3 - 5) but, his life is ultimatly tied to the gun(s) destruction.
c. - Include mannable\auto antiair defences with the gun group(???)
d. - If multiple guns in this scenario, a fixed pattern is fired, or the adjuster has a "short" menu of patterns. All guns slaved to a primary used for all adjustments.
Down sides:
1. - Boring and lots of work.
2. - Over used to local spot\spy hidden tanks versus artillery spotting.
3. - Used to spot\spy suspected mission spawning feilds to call in 262 if this battery can spawn like a GV and has no perk cost. Spawn in, spawn spotter to the maximum gun range towards the airfield. Spot planes until jabo kills guns. Repeat or bring back freinds.
4. - Might become a spawn camping nightmare if cannon size HE round is seriously destructive to tanks. Or to CV groups and assult craft too close to shore.
5. - Vulnerable once spotted due to fixed nature.
6. - A really clunky cludgy gamey process if this battery can move as a mobile unit setting up and tearing down. Spotter spying abuses would be mostly tied to a mobile battery being GV spawnable into locations.
+1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000.9999999999999999999999999999999999999999 for me well explained and have each manned position consist of 3-5 guns and shoot like buffs drop bombs either a "semi-auto" or a salvo 5 delay .25... make sence i would actually be on the ground instead of a bomb****
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The way I learned indirect fire was by going to V88 on ozkansas and firing on V103. I can sit on the concrete of V88 with an M4A3(75) and kill all of the guns and hangars. It wasnt that long ago that I sat there and kept 103 dead for more than two hours. Sorry you missed that. I was told 200 was full of "C" words.
You can do the same thing from maximum range in the M4 and drop towns although someone has to be in the air to tell you which building you have hit. After that it is simply a matter of slight aim point corrections.
When I sit on a 9.5k mountain and use plunging fire on a vbase (which I have done numerous times) the enemy will not even see the base flashing. With resupply I can kill all of the guns the hangars and make any vehicle on the field miserable from all the hits they hear. A 9.5k elevation with a horizontal offset of 6k gives a firing distance of about 11.25k while shooting at objects on the far side of the field will be shots of about 12.5k.
While 15k shots are exceptional they are also rarely needed but nonetheless possible.
Film wont help you.
Dude, you'd have to have an aircraft loitering for one HELL of a long time. First off, he'd have to locate where your shells are landing, and then see if you're even anywhere near the town/base (at 8.52 miles, its not a given), then he'd have to guide your fire onto the town/base itself. Then he'd have to guide you onto an individual target.
All in all, I'd guess you'd go through at least half your rounds just dialing in the range and bearing for a target, say, a hanger. And thats assuming the gun doesn't shift at all from recoil (and it does). Considering that a shift of a few degrees can significanly change your aim point at extended ranges for direct fire (by as much as maybe 100yds at only 3-4k), it would be safe to assume that the recoil would pose a significant challenge for putting continuous fire onto anything smaller than a town or base as a whole.
My conclusion? The range estimate of 15k is either an outright lie, or heavily exagerated.
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Never underestimate. :old:
If it can be done, it will be done.
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Tank-ace... do the math. Im not going to spell out the entire process for you. Either devote the time to learn how it is done or just admit there are people that can do things you cant figure out.
Next time you are on a vbase and things start to explode but you cant see incoming rounds you will know what is happening.
If I had just four people that could do this then your first hint of a pending base capture would be a flood of Jeeps. Thats why I dont go around telling people how to do it. It would destroy the game. Thats how I see it.
Practically speaking I think the mountains and hills should be reduced to a maximum of 5k or the distance from any mountain that reaches above 5k be moved 20k from any field or town. But what I see as a danger probably doesnt exist of the great mud puddles cant figure it out. :D
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Tank-ace... do the math. Im not going to spell out the entire process for you. Either devote the time to learn how it is done or just admit there are people that can do things you cant figure out.
Next time you are on a vbase and things start to explode but you cant see incoming rounds you will know what is happening.
If I had just four people that could do this then your first hint of a pending base capture would be a flood of Jeeps. Thats why I dont go around telling people how to do it. It would destroy the game. Thats how I see it.
Practically speaking I think the mountains and hills should be reduced to a maximum of 5k or the distance from any mountain that reaches above 5k be moved 20k from any field or town. But what I see as a danger probably doesnt exist of the great mud puddles cant figure it out. :D
How dare you talk to a BBS general like that, he know's far more about tanking then you will ever know. Ah hell nevermind, let him flood the base with jeeps.
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Butcher: Mud puddle = vehicle. :aok
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Tank-ace... do the math. Im not going to spell out the entire process for you. Either devote the time to learn how it is done or just admit there are people that can do things you cant figure out.
Next time you are on a vbase and things start to explode but you cant see incoming rounds you will know what is happening.
If I had just four people that could do this then your first hint of a pending base capture would be a flood of Jeeps. Thats why I dont go around telling people how to do it. It would destroy the game. Thats how I see it.
Practically speaking I think the mountains and hills should be reduced to a maximum of 5k or the distance from any mountain that reaches above 5k be moved 20k from any field or town. But what I see as a danger probably doesnt exist of the great mud puddles cant figure it out. :D
The numbers still add up to a LOT of wasted shells on your part. If you can quickly get fire anywhere NEAR your target, you're firing from a pre-ranged possition. If say you can quickly adjust fire onto a specific building, you're a damn liar. If you say you don't run into any problems with the recoil, its a mirical you haven't choked on the BS thats poring from your mouth.
The M4 can't do what a Wespe with a variant of a land-gunner mode could. It can't quicky, consitantly, and efficiently deliver heavy fire onto a distant target, without hours of preparation.
So, while your M4 might work as indirect artillery out to 4000yds or so, past that you're running into more troubles than the fire provided is worth, and likely insurmountable problems without untold hours of fire and correct.
And I admit you might be able to do it at 15k; we thought you meant direct fire from 15k, as thats what we were discussing when you brought it up. However, you won't be able to do it 1) quickly 2) consitently 3) efficiently
But I think the first sign of a base capture in progress I would see is your scout circling around town for the hour it would take you to destroy all the town buildings, shortly before some 30mm fire stiches across his fuselage. If you tried to jump the gun, I might also see a horde of jeeps swarming towards the town to try and machine gun the town down and try and rescue a poorly-planned capture attempt.
Why? No v-bases are within 8.52 miles of an airfield, so far as I remember, a scout would quickly be shot down if he were orbiting an useable airfield, and if the airfield weren't useable, the horde would already be overhead.
So yeah, you could theoretically provide indirect fire at extended ranges with an M4, but you'll never be able to do it with anywhere near the usefullness of an actual SPG.
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How dare you talk to a BBS general like that, he know's far more about tanking then you will ever know. Ah hell nevermind, let him flood the base with jeeps.
Lol, you know, I figured it would get old after a while, but it just stays funny. You seem almost bipolar, with your shifts between the false-modesty and humility, and then the chest thumping and poorly executed put downs.
I feel you need some recognition for your contribution to comedy on the BBS though. Perhaps troll-of-the-day award? Or have you gone back to your false-modesty stage already?
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The numbers still add up to a LOT of wasted shells on your part. If you can quickly get fire anywhere NEAR your target, you're firing from a pre-ranged possition. If say you can quickly adjust fire onto a specific building, you're a damn liar. If you say you don't run into any problems with the recoil, its a mirical you haven't choked on the BS thats poring from your mouth.
No. Its obvious you are not the expert you think you are. Since you havent got the imagination or game know-how to figure this out and also insulted me twice... you can suffer.
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I went back and double checked the figures and found some errors. First off: an delevation of 9.5k (9500 ft) translates to 3.126k yards. So a horizontal distance of 6k and an elevation of 3.126k from the target translates to a straight line distance of 6.8k. I dont know precisely what distance it takes to make a base flash but I do know that if you are over 6k from a base that people on the base will not see tank rounds fired from that distance. I know this because I had people comm me directly and ask why I was able to blow stuff up on their field without being seen.
This is not an example of the furthest shot possible but only the one case I mentioned (with a math error).
There is one infamous case where I was shelling a base and keeping the hangars down when one of my squad members went to capture it. I could see one of the guns had come up and I was trying to hit it when he passed close enough to my shot to kill me. It was so far out that I could not see him even zoomed all the way in and he could not see the round approaching. So the technique is not without its problems.
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Horrible idea.
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No. Its obvious you are not the expert you think you are. Since you havent got the imagination or game know-how to figure this out and also insulted me twice... you can suffer.
Chalenge; the best way to prove your point is with a film. Otherwise, your claim seems bit far-fetched.
MH
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There is one infamous case where I was shelling a base and keeping the hangars down when one of my squad members went to capture it. I could see one of the guns had come up and I was trying to hit it when he passed close enough to my shot to kill me. It was so far out that I could not see him even zoomed all the way in and he could not see the round approaching. So the technique is not without its problems.
Soo...... you can see a gun pop up, while you're still too far to see a friendly unit moving even fully zoomed in.
Now, I might not have a fancy degree in engineering or anything, but I'm fairly certian that Aircraft or GV > AA gun.
Considering guns don't even show long-range dots like aircraft and sometimes GV's do, I still find this a bit questionable. I mean the whole "I was too far to see a friendly, but I was still close enough to see a gun" think really doesn't make much sense. Either theres something wrong with the game graphics, or you're BS'ing.
Chalenge; the best way to prove your point is with a film. Otherwise, your claim seems bit far-fetched.
MH
Even if we're too far to see the spotter, just a film of you spawning up, bringing the clip board up and showing us you are an estimated 15k from target, and firing rounds will be sufficient. Why? Because film viewer shows us your text buffer, so we will see if you're destroying targets.
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Deacon it doesnt matter whether you believe me or not. People have witnessed this in the game and as I said already if more people knew how to do it then dweebs would be rolling maps like there was no tomorrow! Worse... there wouldnt be any air combat going on.
Tank-ace is being ignored for the most part but I will point out... friendlies can report the gun up and I know what the down times are on them. In the case I am talking about the base was surrounded precisely because I was keeping it dead allowing one of my squad members to get an m3 in (and killing myself too). Say what you will I will NOT tell you how it is done. BUT if you ever see objects on your field mysteriously exploding then you will know who is responsible.
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Sometimes I think most wishes here are trolls to start fights.
Do you guys want player controlled artillery or not?
Do you have any ideas how to implement it in the game?
Do you have a better idea to giving a single player control over all aspects of aiming and spotting for a battery? As you notice all player controled functions in the game are designed around single players.
Do you even give a ratz hairy south bound part how it's implemented if Hitech includes it some day? The simplest thing I'm betting is to model it after the multigun batteries in the CV group and hope you can make nice with a Storch pilot or spawn campers for spotting feedback. I did that once to V85 with a 3 gun cruiser battery using land mode against the north spawn and a F4U spotter. He helped me clear the spawn of tanks and M3's holding them off until V85's hangers and ack came back up.
From that experience I'd say mobile artillery batteries will be effective in this game with a reliable spotting function for the player commanding the battery and enough guns in the battery to be usefull down range.
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Deacon it doesnt matter whether you believe me or not. People have witnessed this in the game and as I said already if more people knew how to do it then dweebs would be rolling maps like there was no tomorrow! Worse... there wouldnt be any air combat going on.
then produce a minimum of 2 witnesses for us, at the very least.
Tank-ace is being ignored for the most part but I will point out... friendlies can report the gun up and I know what the down times are on them. In the case I am talking about the base was surrounded precisely because I was keeping it dead allowing one of my squad members to get an m3 in (and killing myself too).
I could see one of the guns had come up and I was trying to hit it when he passed close enough to my shot to kill me. It was so far out that I could not see him even zoomed all the way in and he could not see the round approaching.
Say what you will I will NOT tell you how it is done.
You sound like a little kid telling everyone about his invisible pet dinosaur, and then getting pissed off when nobody believes him because the dinosaur can't be felt, heard, smelled, etc by anyone but him either.
BUT if you ever see objects on your field mysteriously exploding then you will know who is responsible.
In 80% of the cases, the cause of the explosions turned out to be the tank that was shelling the base with long range direct fire from a hill, or using an improbably long LOS on the base from a possition of roughly equal elevation. The other 20% of the time turned out to be a lone incompetent CV gunner opening up on the field before an attack was ready or an LVTA4.
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Tank-ace your hyperbole isnt going to help and your insistance that I prove what I say is just as ridiculous. You are the child here... not I.
Specifically talk to Biggamer who used the "C" word against me in either early or midwar. And you can ask Lyric or anyone else in my squad who have all gotten tired of my "disappearing" acts but nonetheless bring my supplies when I need them.
It wont help you figure out how it works.
NO, even though I at one time thought towed artillery was a good idea I do not anymore. I like AH as a flight sim but I can see how the little kiddies would love to turn it into Jeeps Run.
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Sometimes I think most wishes here are trolls to start fights.
Do you guys want player controlled artillery or not?
<snip>
No, and I already indicated why in my first comment. To repeat, if it is to be anywhere near historical, it will overpower the rest of the game.
MH
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then produce a minimum of 2 witnesses for us, at the very least.
<snip>
I changed my mind. I think he could do it if on a suitably-positioned mountain (so he can see his targets plus a short space in front and in back of them), resupplied (so he has enough rounds to take down 4 vehicle hangers plus acks plus ranging shots), and if there is something in back of the town he can sight on (since his gun will move with each shot; alternatively he might be able to put sight marks on his monitor). Whether this is worth the trouble, is another question.
MH
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No sights on the monitor are needed other than what comes with the tank.
This is a sample recorded offline of what I did at TT on OZkansas for two hours one night. It does not show any long range shots (maybe 5k at most) but might be able to hear the six barracks four guns four hangars and dar. I cut it short about where I was getting ready to drop the fifth hangar.
On the day I did this online I had rooks firing at me trying to bomb me 7lbers firing trying to kill our dar (I killed their guns instead) and still kept their base flat for that long.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QP_Rukha7kk
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Would love a flechette round for troops running to maproom !
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Artillery is pretty accurate with a FO calling in offsets after a fire-for-effect airburst.
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A battery of 105's would be awesome :banana:
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Tank-ace your hyperbole isnt going to help and your insistance that I prove what I say is just as ridiculous. You are the child here... not I.
No, its not. Being skeptical of an unlikely claim (quick, accurate aimed fire from 8.52 miles out) before proof or even any support for the claim is provided is perfectly reasonable.
Infact, its really a lot like the other kids who don't believe you have an invisible dinosaur.
Specifically talk to Biggamer who used the "C" word against me in either early or midwar. And you can ask Lyric or anyone else in my squad who have all gotten tired of my "disappearing" acts but nonetheless bring my supplies when I need them.
I think I will talk to them. It will at least help cut through your evasions.
It wont help you figure out how it works.
I don't play right now, and since the first year or so I played Aces High, I haven't played for winning the war or to have a good score. When I do get back, I'll have better things to do than fiddly-fart around, going to great lenghts to avoid combat. And even if I did care to knock a base flat while avoiding trouble, I could just take a quick trip to 15k with a bomber, and I'd be fairly safe.
Sorry for bursting your bubble, but I don't think many people care much about your system (if its even real, I still have yet to check with your sources) as a tool they could use in the game. It strikes me as both inefficient, and boring.
NO, even though I at one time thought towed artillery was a good idea I do not anymore. I like AH as a flight sim but I can see how the little kiddies would love to turn it into Jeeps Run.
This coming from the guy who allegedly spent uncounted hours figuring out a way to shell bases from beyond range of retaliation..... from the ground?
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Unlike you (Tank-ace) I figured this out immediately after the changes to the new designs. I literally went straight to V88 and killed V103. In the same time it takes a driver to go between the fields in TT I climbed a hill and shot a base many miles away and tracked tanks coming off the base too. Primarily I use this as a technique to kill dars and barracks.
Since you think its so boring then towed artillery would be (being the same thing exactly) just as boring and not something you want.
Have fun playing with your dinosaur. :rolleyes:
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Unlike you (Tank-ace) I figured this out immediately after the changes to the new designs. I literally went straight to V88 and killed V103. In the same time it takes a driver to go between the fields in TT I climbed a hill and shot a base many miles away and tracked tanks coming off the base too. Primarily I use this as a technique to kill dars and barracks.
Long range direct fire is one thing. One thats actually effective, and one I've used often. You were talking about long range (in excess of 8 miles which, btw, almost double the maximum range of the gun that the M4's 75mm is based on) indirect fire. IIRC, you were saying we didn't really need artillery, because we have the M4, and your magic aiming method,
Since you think its so boring then towed artillery would be (being the same thing exactly) just as boring and not something you want.
boring + inefficient (or with this, I suspect ineffective) is something I wouldn't even dable in. Unless you provide film showing you can quickly adjust fire onto a specific target, I'm not going to waste my time with anything that stupid.
Artillery, however, has the potential to be highly effective. If its effective, its sometimes worth using, no matter how boring it might be after a while.
Have fun playing with your dinosaur. :rolleyes:
Its your dinosaur. You're the one making claims and then kicking up your heels when asked for some proof.
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Obviously you have spoken to no one or you would have confirmed it has already been done. Otherwise your fishing expedition is a failure.
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Obviously you have spoken to no one or you would have confirmed it has already been done. Otherwise your fishing expedition is a failure.
I can understand direct fire, i've myself killed a few hangers (back when it was 3 not 4) using a tank and long range direct fire, how are we going to go about indirect fire? First would require a spotter, secondly limited ammo is a different story - I don't quite think were going to have batteries to deal with, only a single artillery piece - whether wesp or M7 priest. It would require a supply truck or two, given how artillery needs to move about to avoid counter fire, and aircraft - supply truck would have to be near it to be effective.
Direct fire, Artillery would be quite interesting to play with, tough to get into position since its mainly easy to knock out - but once it starts hitting buildings it wouldn't take some 20+ rounds to take a building down.
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From what I have seen of artillery in action (live and in training films) the firing rate is nothing like an M4. An M4 that can place 13 hits directly on any hangar will drop it. Town buildings are much easier.
If you go after the answers here you will ruin this game. There are far too many gamers that dont give a hoot about flying.
We do not need artillery.
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Obviously you have spoken to no one or you would have confirmed it has already been done. Otherwise your fishing expedition is a failure.
I've confirmed that you've kill shotted yourself on an M3 from beyond icon range, and that you've captured several bases without flashing them. Nothing more.
Hell, I can't even confirm if it was direct or indirect fire on the M3
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You have been told it is true. You dont accept it. Your fishing trip has failed.
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What's wrong with a Lancstuka? :)
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Are we loosing a significant number of pilots to the ground war as HTC upgrades the GV??
Wouldn't mobile artillery batteries just become another tool for the GV advocates a bit complicated for newbies to achive any success with?
Why not ask Hitech directly if he sees any future for this tool in his game?
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even aireal observation would be good
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You have been told it is true. You dont accept it. Your fishing trip has failed.
I've been told by YOU, which means nothing. And Lyric can't confirm the range as anything more than 6k, and has yet to confirm that it was indirect fire.
At this point, all I know for a fact about this is that you fired on a base from at least 6,000yds, and that you killshot yourself on an M3. Nothing else has been confirmed yet.
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I've been told by YOU, which means nothing. And Lyric can't confirm the range as anything more than 6k, and has yet to confirm that it was indirect fire.
At this point, all I know for a fact about this is that you fired on a base from at least 6,000yds, and that you killshot yourself on an M3. Nothing else has been confirmed yet.
LOL pot chance means nothing, I've killed myself on a friendly more then 4 times beyond 4k away in a Panther, attempting to hit vehicles moving about and i didn't see an icon.
Last time was in a Tiger II I managed some crazy 5k shot on a spawn and hit a friendly, random chances DO happen - I see this as nothing more then a lottery winning.
Pot Luck, your best bet is to buy a lottery ticket and cash it in, I had enough shots in game that were simply "pot luck" - after the first one or two you simply shrug it off or get called a cheater.
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Frankly Tank-ace I really dont care what you accept or dont accept. You still havent apologized. After I shared a video of indirect fire taking a base down (which is more than you claimed could even be done) you still maintain an air of superiority. I say your just another user. A noob at that.
Keep fishing though. One day you may pull in a whopper.
All the artillery anyone needs:
(http://i447.photobucket.com/albums/qq197/Chalenge08/M4A375Artillery.jpg)
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Maximum effective range - def. - The maximum distance at which a weapon may be expected to be accurate and achieve the desired result.
M3 75mm gun: Maximum effective range - 13,600 yards.
Maybe a little tank trainer needs to find another line of work?
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I don't owe you an appology, I expressed skepticism of a rather far-fetched claim, which was reasonable at the time. I'm still a bit skeptical of the 14k distance you've stated, when you get down to it.
I never said you couldn't take down a base without an LOS. I said you can't do it quickly, reliably, and efficiently. And unless you're firing from a pre-ranged possition, with pre-marked firing points, or are firing from a possition of exact known range to a target, and are really quick with a field map and some math, you can't do it quickly.
This makes it inefficient, becuase you have to do a lot of preparation to quickly and reliably hit a target. That in turn limits its usefullness.
Oh, and the M3 tank gun fires the same round as the M1897 field gun, which had a maximum range of 7,500yds.
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Oh, and the M3 tank gun fires the same round as the M1897 field gun, which had a maximum range of 7,500yds.
In that case you need to message Hitech and tell him his game is coded incorrectly. I mean if you truly believe that to be the case.
I found numerous references to the effective use of the M4A3(75) as artillery with a maximum effective range (MER) of 13,600 yards.
With all your comments about lies and invisible dinosaurs and such... yes you still owe me an apology.
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Let me clarify that: the M3 CAN fire the same round as the M1879 field gun. They also had an HE shell with a larger propellant charge to increase range. And being a field gun, the M1879 was intended to fire at relatively flat trajectories. Its possible range was limited by elevation of the gun.
And no, I don't 'owe' you an appology. I expresed skepticism of a far-fetched claim that has yet to be fully confirmed, and you think I owe you an appology.
At best, I owe you acknowledgment that you can take down a base without an LOS at an unspecified range, which I already have given. Thats all I could get out of your sources so far. Untill one of them can confirm that 15k number, you're getting nothing more.
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Okay since there is no apology coming from you: You are a liar.
The maximum effective range of the M3 75mm GMC that we have in the game is 9,200 yards due to a limited elevation. You purposely skimped on the figure to improve your "lie." Normally I would call this hyperbolic eupemism but in your case I now know you cannot accept being wrong. However you have been demonstrated to be wrong numerous times in this thread. You should probably go offline and continue flinging pooh there.
The M4A3 75mm we have in the game is limited due to its elevation of 20 degrees (a limitation which can easily be overcome). The round it fires is capable of a maximum effective range of 13,600 yards. That is not the total range capability but it is the MER for that round.
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I've hardly been proved wrong, you damn wind-bag. I said I was skeptical of your ability to do it quickly and efficiently. I don't believe I ever said it couldn't be done.
And no, it wasn't a lie, it was a simple oversight. When I posted the first number, I just used a quick trip to wiki, because I already had a ball-park number in my head, but wanted to confirm it. Later, when I actually got a bit further into it, I saw it could fire an HE shell with an increased propellant charge.
Based on the ranges you've listed (I really don't care enough to go and confirm something you would gain nothing by lying about.), I would guess HTC is using the HE round with the larger propellant charge.
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Tank-Ace would've had a stroke if he was around during the early AW days with HiTech's legendary exploits of using the T-34 for highly accurate indirect fire of targets 10,000+ yards away.
ack-ack
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I have film of killing an F6F at 9.9k as it spawned but of course revealing it would also reveal how this is done.
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Thank you for the info.
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TankAce= :rofl
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Tank-Ace would've had a stroke if he was around during the early AW days with HiTech's legendary exploits of using the T-34 for highly accurate indirect fire of targets 10,000+ yards away.
ack-ack
Theres a difference between being accurate, and being able to quickly and efficiently (as in minimum of wasted shells) aquire the initial target, and then shift targets.
I've never said long-range indirect fire couldn't be accurate. I would be amazed if Hitech could, say, knock out all the hangers on a field from an unknown range and bearing, using just a spotter, and in under 10 minutes and without wasing, say, 30 shells.
I would be amazed if anyone could do it. It might be possible, I'm not saying its not. I'm saying I'm skeptical of the ability to do so, what with the recoil screwing up your aim every time you fire.
I have film of killing an F6F at 9.9k as it spawned but of course revealing it would also reveal how this is done.
See, and this is a big part of what makes me skeptical. Its all these claims, but then no solid proof. While you might be correct in saying that wide-spread knowledge of how to do all these things you claim could be harmfull to game play,you do have to admit it would make a rather nice excuse if someone, say, didn't actually have any tricks to do the things he claimed.
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Theres a difference between being accurate, and being able to quickly and efficiently (as in minimum of wasted shells) aquire the initial target, and then shift targets.
Again, you'd have a stroke if you playing (you weren't born yet) AW when HiTech was because he could sit in any part of any sector and hit anything with a single round with pinpoint accuracy within that sector. It was funny seeing the whines from people he was vulching by killing them a half sector away with his T-34. He was able to hit the fuel tanks, ammo bunker, tower and maintenance hangers with no problems.
ack-ack
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Clue for you Tank.
https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1T4GGHP_enUS466US466&q=measure+tapes&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=kc0EUPn9Fc7E2QWal7SaBQ&biw=1280&bih=681&sei=lc0EUIWgJom9rQHHoITCCA
https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1T4GGHP_enUS466US466&q=mearing+rulers&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=180EUKqyNaTS2AXh1KnIBQ&biw=1280&bih=657&sei=2c0EULyxHpT4rAHf0qXACA
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Of course the easiest thing to do is find the range by shooting the radar first but if you do that then the Storch hangar can spawn a Storch and see where you are. If I am able to hit the base of the radar then anything on the field has a known range from my position. It doesnt matter where I am on the map relative to the field as long as I have the range (level elevation requires being closer than elevation advantage does). My second target is usually the Fighter hangar then the 88s and then manned guns. I think I once killed six Storch when the same guy kept trying to come up. I didnt even know he was there because I was well out of range to see him and the rounds were already down range when he tried to spawn. Didnt have any trouble getting supps brought to me either although the question "Your where?" was pretty common. Great fun!
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Simple player interface is preferable.
Player types in dot command: .spot "direction" "yards". Direction 0 to 360 like a Compass heading.
Yards would depend on how far the nearest base capable of arty is located and a range of 500 to 5000 yards from the players location.
After it hits. player can call in a correct "direction" "yards" relative to his original spot.
He could walk the shot forward, left, or right, ect. until it reaches the desired location.
Then he could call in a barrage where the shells will start to come in. Twenty to twenty five shells will hit around the
Desired location. A nice feature would be if the player could call in another barge w/o going through the spot and correct dot commands.
Good idea.....call in arty with a storch.
Certain gv's like jeeps,m-3's, That carry supplies would make good candidates. The M-8 would be a candidate as well since it is used for recon.
<S>
mano
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Again, you'd have a stroke if you playing (you weren't born yet) AW when HiTech was because he could sit in any part of any sector and hit anything with a single round with pinpoint accuracy within that sector. It was funny seeing the whines from people he was vulching by killing them a half sector away with his T-34. He was able to hit the fuel tanks, ammo bunker, tower and maintenance hangers with no problems.
ack-ack
Same style of sights we have in AH :huh?
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Kind of similar in that it also had range markers but that was it.
ack-ack
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You have a screenshot ack-ack? I would like to see those sights if possible.
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You have a screenshot ack-ack? I would like to see those sights if possible.
I don't have any screenshots left over from my AW days unfortunately.
ack-ack
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I still have Air Warrior installed on my Amiga 3000...
MH
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Artillery feature would be fun.
I want to fire it as with naval gun target system of Aces High.