Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: deadstikmac on September 27, 2012, 06:55:46 PM

Title: HardCore
Post by: deadstikmac on September 27, 2012, 06:55:46 PM
Just throwing this out there....

 :headscratch:

 :devil:One LIFE for every 1 hour of REAL TIME. No respawns during that time. Can be "in tower" but can not use anything except change tower. This is to include chat and communications your dead, ember....

 :angel: Country selection has a "until current map changes" type of "cool down" once you have selected a country and decide to change country's.

 :joystick: No icons. (No  :cry about this one sissys... If you have never done it with squad mates then how do you know you won't like it? :old:)

 :banana: No cross country chat or communication.

 :O No Real Time Feed Back from Clipboard Map of ANYONE'S location/position.   :cry JUST the map display (think VFR)




All of that  :bolt:       In one arena.
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: kvuo75 on September 27, 2012, 06:57:55 PM
nah..

Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: icepac on September 27, 2012, 07:21:17 PM
Some of that stuff would be more realistic than most in aces high would want with friendly vehicle spawns 3000 yards from an enemy field.

I would just like to see a tour where the war was condensed with a rolling planeset.
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: waystin2 on September 27, 2012, 07:27:06 PM
Nope.  I pay to play, not pay to stare out tower window.
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: phatzo on September 27, 2012, 07:38:00 PM
No icons is great if you know what you're looking for i.e. american aircraft, luftwaffe, IJN etc. but with everyone flying anything how do you know if you are fighting a friendly or an enemy?
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: Lusche on September 27, 2012, 07:47:16 PM
No icons is great if you know what you're looking for i.e. american aircraft, luftwaffe, IJN etc. but with everyone flying anything how do you know if you are fighting a friendly or an enemy?

Kill shooter will tell you quickly  :noid
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: Nathan60 on September 27, 2012, 07:49:22 PM
Just make it free for all it will be epic especially the base takes.
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: MrKrabs on September 27, 2012, 07:49:35 PM
Just throwing this out there....

 :headscratch:

 :devil:One LIFE for every 1 hour of REAL TIME. No respawns during that time. Can be "in tower" but can not use anything except change tower. This is to include chat and communications your dead, ember....

 :angel: Country selection has a "until current map changes" type of "cool down" once you have selected a country and decide to change country's.

 :joystick: No icons. (No  :cry about this one sissys... If you have never done it with squad mates then how do you know you won't like it? :old:)

 :banana: No cross country chat or communication.

 :O No Real Time Feed Back from Clipboard Map of ANYONE'S location/position.   :cry JUST the map display (think VFR)




All of that  :bolt:       In one arena.

AND BOING!!! WISH GRANTED!!

Go open a custom arena, play with arena settings, and actively manage it....
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: Ack-Ack on September 27, 2012, 07:52:35 PM

I would just like to see a tour where the war was condensed with a rolling planeset.

Enjoy a near empty arena then.  RPS was a failure in WB and considering HiTech was the developer of WB, you would think if the RPS was successful he would have carried it over to AH.  In short, people don't like to be dicated on what they can fly and when, especially if they are paying to play.

ack-ack
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: deadstikmac on September 27, 2012, 08:23:48 PM
A different light...


You and 3 of your squaddies FingerFour ingress into enemy airspace. No bogies in sight with target airfield on the horizon...

"Check airfield... Did I just see a con lift?" squaks the vox from your wingman.
"No Viz" You reply as you both start manuvering for visual contact.

Heart pumping... And if it is not it will be. No icons for the diehard... No clipboard "radar" map to fly by outside of visual range... No one without friends or squad mates will be here.... Or will they Lone Wolf?¿?
"CONTACT... Eleven O'clock low... Check that TWO Contacts TWO Contacts."
"Roger That"
Rolling over to nose on you and your wingman advise the second wing to stay high and provide cover for a double attack. In the saddle for a whole new experience from an allready great game....

Squaddies going in for some squad vs squad.

If your Top Ace for that you could really brag about skill?

Just a thought...

Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: kvuo75 on September 27, 2012, 08:33:10 PM
extra-hard core = 1 life per month.

that should work well.  :aok


raise the price to $100/ month as well. super hardcore.
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: LCADolby on September 27, 2012, 08:36:20 PM
1 life only ... EVAR!


 :rolleyes:
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: guncrasher on September 27, 2012, 09:01:14 PM
A different light...


You and 3 of your squaddies FingerFour ingress into enemy airspace. No bogies in sight with target airfield on the horizon...

"Check airfield... Did I just see a con lift?" squaks the vox from your wingman.
"No Viz" You reply as you both start manuvering for visual contact.

Heart pumping... And if it is not it will be. No icons for the diehard... No clipboard "radar" map to fly by outside of visual range... No one without friends or squad mates will be here.... Or will they Lone Wolf?¿?
"CONTACT... Eleven O'clock low... Check that TWO Contacts TWO Contacts."
"Roger That"
Rolling over to nose on you and your wingman advise the second wing to stay high and provide cover for a double attack. In the saddle for a whole new experience from an allready great game....

Squaddies going in for some squad vs squad.

If your Top Ace for that you could really brag about skill?

Just a thought...



I bet not even what's his name thought of a stupid way to kill the game.



semp
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: phatzo on September 27, 2012, 09:19:07 PM
RPS was a failure in WB
Last time I ventured in there for a look see they were trying it again in the WWII arena but this time it seemed popular as there were four people in the arena and three in the main.
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: Karnak on September 27, 2012, 09:21:20 PM
Almost everybody would simply run from any contact that they did not have a decisive positional advantage over.

Why?

Because there is a significant penalty for dying and no real pressing reason to engage.  In the real deal there were a variety of pressing reasons to engage, even at a disadvantage.
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: Spikes on September 27, 2012, 09:38:57 PM
We call it special events.
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: deadstikmac on September 27, 2012, 09:50:34 PM
We call it special events.


Hmmm I'll have to check into that then. Sounds fun   :aok
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: Karnak on September 27, 2012, 09:52:56 PM
The other thing this would cause would be a comparatively empty arena even if the same number of players were using it because of the long delay between dying and being able to reup.
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: icepac on September 27, 2012, 09:55:54 PM
Enjoy a near empty arena then.  RPS was a failure in WB and considering HiTech was the developer of WB, you would think if the RPS was successful he would have carried it over to AH.  In short, people don't like to be dicated on what they can fly and when, especially if they are paying to play.

ack-ack

I've been here a year and have only seen people in the Axis Vs Allies arena on one occasion.

Seriously.....I actually look every time I log in.

I want it even more just because Ack Ack hates the realism in plane matchups it can bring.
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: Nathan60 on September 27, 2012, 10:01:51 PM
I've been here a year and have only seen people in the Axis Vs Allies arena on one occasion.

Seriously.....I actually look every time I log in.

I want it even more just because Ack Ack hates the realism in plane matchups it can bring.

Funny cuz the ava has seen good numbers ALL week. Icepak I ask in all seriousness: can I have some of your drugs?
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: surfinn on September 27, 2012, 10:11:12 PM
wow so many replies to the dumbest post ever. Obviously a troll nothing to see here move along_______ :headscratch:
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: Nathan60 on September 27, 2012, 10:33:26 PM
wow so many replies to the dumbest post ever. Obviously a troll nothing to see here move along_______ :headscratch:
Not a troll if anything false advertisement.
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: coombz on September 27, 2012, 10:46:41 PM

Hmmm I'll have to check into that then. Sounds fun   :aok

they are :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLMHuEHun1Y
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: Nathan60 on September 28, 2012, 01:59:50 AM
they are :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLMHuEHun1Y

is it my net or was that a bit choppy?
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: icepac on September 28, 2012, 06:18:47 AM
Funny cuz the ava has seen good numbers ALL week. Icepak I ask in all seriousness: can I have some of your drugs?

Ok....If I see numbers in A vs A, I will be sure to pad my score at the expense of yours like the other 8 guys who own you and somehow fly there without it being apparent in the arena selection screen.

The sad part is that I have only once (11 months ago) seen numbers above zero population and that only lasted a couple of hours before it went back to zero.
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: PanosGR on September 28, 2012, 08:37:24 AM
None icon worked perfectlly in AvA
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: deadstikmac on September 28, 2012, 10:09:45 AM
wow so many replies to the dumbest post ever. Obviously a troll nothing to see here move along_______ :headscratch:

Ty sir
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: tmetal on September 28, 2012, 10:22:33 AM
The AvA has a good number of people in attendance ("good number" being a relative term) on most week nights; but it is normally only for a 2 or 3 hour time frame in the later evening. So depending on when you log in, the AvA can almost always look like a ghost town or a populated arena. 

*steps back* feel free to recommence the escalating purse fight
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: deadstikmac on September 28, 2012, 10:23:17 AM
This was a thought for an arena. It was not meant to become a Main Arena Type... But someplace where organizing and execution count.

The MA has one goal... Butt Tons of Fun! I get that, that's why I'm a newly addicted player.... So if I wanted to throw planes into the ground all day that's my 15 bucks a month too do so with. The thought was a place where a more realistic form of combat can be had with the fun factors still intact.

Obviously the way we play in the MA would not be duplicated in the hardcore arena. Teamwork not just from your squad mates but from those in country would become the focus... Friendly Fire is a blessing and a curse.

 :old: how would a fur ball work if your not on your game and don't know who too shoot at?
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: deadstikmac on September 28, 2012, 10:24:46 AM
So I need to check out AvA also. Ty  :salute
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: jimson on September 28, 2012, 11:32:44 AM
AvA generally has some population starting around 9pm est. We try to make a special effort on Tuesday nights so that is a good bet.

When we can, we use small maps and a small population can provide a pretty good time.

We usually run no enemy icons. We don't claim that that is more realistic but it does give it a different feel and the majority of people who try it, like it.

Ok....If I see numbers in A vs A, I will be sure to pad my score at the expense of yours like the other 8 guys who own you and somehow fly there without it being apparent in the arena selection screen.

The sad part is that I have only once (11 months ago) seen numbers above zero population and that only lasted a couple of hours before it went back to zero.

The arena can go from zero to 10 to 20 players in a heartbeat so you will need to check it more than once a night to see if anyone is in there.

My suggestion is to check it out on Tuesdays shortly after 9pm est.
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: Zoney on September 28, 2012, 11:38:19 AM
Gentleman <S>

Deadstik is still pretty new here so let's try and cut him a bit of slack.

The AVA is more "Hardcore" then the mains are and enjoys a limited clientele.

I think what you are suggesting Deadstik, is much more severe and therefore might have an even smaller following.

There are things that you cannot emulate in the main arena' base on your suggestions, but there are things that you can.

You and you alone decide how you fly and you can do some of the things you suggest for your "Hardcore" arena without forcing the game to provide them.
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: deadstikmac on September 28, 2012, 12:03:46 PM
Gentleman <S>

Deadstik is still pretty new here so let's try and cut him a bit of slack.

The AVA is more "Hardcore" then the mains are and enjoys a limited clientele.

I think what you are suggesting Deadstik, is much more severe and therefore might have an even smaller following.

There are things that you cannot emulate in the main arena' base on your suggestions, but there are things that you can.

You and you alone decide how you fly and you can do some of the things you suggest for your "Hardcore" arena without forcing the game to provide them.

 :salute yes sir I am still very much a dodo, not even close to an upperclassman...

There are some things I do every time I log. My first flight of the night consists of more realistic goals and flight planning. Three reload rearms later I land what I took off. Take a small break. Then depending on my mood start fireballing with everyone else or do something with squad mates ect... But I never hang on to the mentality of its ok if I get shot down because I can just re-up.

 Because of that mentality of reup over survival I bet people take risk factors and ingore them where in truth they would have to change their corps throwing tactics out. Bring some skill along with good wingmen, mix in solid decision making and have a different tactical approach to combat.
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: deadstikmac on September 28, 2012, 12:24:53 PM
Over all it was just a thought to make tactics the paramount focus. :old:

I can do this all day in the MA with everything I suggested so far in regards to mentality but that's thrown out the window when 3 Dora's zoom down on me and my wingman ONLY making head on passes at us until their superior tactics works out for them.... In a arena where you can not fly by your clipboard radar, you have no icons to sit 10k above and watch, there is only ONE mistake you need to make to end your night in the HC arena and send you back to the MA for an hour, humbly I would bet you approach that situation a lot differently.

I will have to explore the AvA and FSO and other Special Events now that is starting too sound more like what I'm looking for.
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: Krusty on September 28, 2012, 12:31:51 PM
PUH-leeze, Zoney....

The AVA is not more "hard core" at all... Its an arbitrarily decided set of rules that a select few think is "more elite" and "requiring more awesome skillz" that they mandate based upon their own prejudiced ideas taken from the IL2 community.

It's far more gamey than the MA, even. 1.0 fuel burn with bases 10 miles apart means every plane flies around near empty weight. Almost every time I'm in there it's nothing but people hiding from fights until they think they can pick without being seen. Flying without icons is akin to flying legally blind, and no pilot would be allowed up in the air, ever, with the kind of vision it provides. In reality you can spot airplanes with great clarity at very long ranges. The select few AvA bandwagon-riders use TrackIR and maximum zoom to get around this but don't be fooled -- they have found a way to game the limitations they set for themselves.

It isn't any more realistic nor is it any more elite, and the constant claims that it takes more skill, talent, and l33tness to fly in the AvA is just self-stroking on their part. They throw a condescending attitude into any conversation to the contrary and with a dismissive wave ignore any details, facts, or logical/scientific arguments that counter what they want to believe in.
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: caldera on September 28, 2012, 12:39:42 PM
Flying low and slow: that is fun for many people in here.  Flying on the edge (because you don't actually die) and doing things the real pilots were not meant to do, but could - that is more fun than disengaging a target, because there is another bandit coming in and you might have a fair fight on your hands.  :rolleyes:  If everyone flew "not to die", this game would be boring as Hell and quickly go out of business.

Be thankful that people take risks.  Those pilots allow you and all your wingmen to swoop in and tag-team them and then return to triumphant fanfare.  :cheers:
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: deadstikmac on September 28, 2012, 12:48:02 PM
Flying low and slow: that is fun for many people in here.  Flying on the edge (because you don't actually die) and doing things the real pilots were not meant to do, but could - that is more fun than disengaging a target, because there is another bandit coming in and you might have a fair fight on your hands.  :rolleyes:  If everyone flew "not to die", this game would be boring as Hell and quickly go out of business.

Be thankful that people take risks.  Those pilots allow you and all your wingmen to swoop in and tag-team them and then return to triumphant fanfare.  :cheers:

Agreed and there is nothing to say that everyone would fly scared... They would fly with a different mindset entirely. Throwing caution to the wind and charging into a 3v1 is just silly in a HC format... But in the MA it is what seprates the men from the boys. Fly smarter not aggressively is the goal.
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: Nathan60 on September 28, 2012, 01:04:18 PM
Ok....If I see numbers in A vs A, I will be sure to pad my score at the expense of yours like the other 8 guys who own you and somehow fly there without it being apparent in the arena selection screen.

The sad part is that I have only once (11 months ago) seen numbers above zero population and that only lasted a couple of hours before it went back to zero.

Why so serious?  Alls I said is there is good numbers and all weeks then I asked for the drugs your on If I touched a nerve Im sorry but I fail to why this would upset you, any way there has been roughly 10-12 players in the AVA all week that could handily beat me,  but thetas not the point my point is  that there has been 10-12 people in the AVA when I play 8-12 est, and that you have drugs   and can I haz?
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: Puma44 on September 28, 2012, 01:51:14 PM
Everyone stand clear.  Krusty's head is about to explode. 
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: Krusty on September 28, 2012, 01:59:23 PM
Everyone stand clear! Puma's trolling!   :noid
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: Puma44 on September 28, 2012, 02:51:34 PM
PUH-leeze, Zoney....

The AVA is not more "hard core" at all... Its an arbitrarily decided set of rules that a select few think is "more elite" and "requiring more awesome skillz" that they mandate based upon their own prejudiced ideas taken from the IL2 community.

It's far more gamey than the MA, even. 1.0 fuel burn with bases 10 miles apart means every plane flies around near empty weight. Almost every time I'm in there it's nothing but people hiding from fights until they think they can pick without being seen. Flying without icons is akin to flying legally blind, and no pilot would be allowed up in the air, ever, with the kind of vision it provides. In reality you can spot airplanes with great clarity at very long ranges. The select few AvA bandwagon-riders use TrackIR and maximum zoom to get around this but don't be fooled -- they have found a way to game the limitations they set for themselves.

It isn't any more realistic nor is it any more elite, and the constant claims that it takes more skill, talent, and l33tness to fly in the AvA is just self-stroking on their part. They throw a condescending attitude into any conversation to the contrary and with a dismissive wave ignore any details, facts, or logical/scientific arguments that counter what they want to believe in.
This is the king of trolls.
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: captain1ma on September 28, 2012, 02:54:32 PM
PUH-leeze, Zoney....

The AVA is not more "hard core" at all... Its an arbitrarily decided set of rules that a select few think is "more elite" and "requiring more awesome skillz" that they mandate based upon their own prejudiced ideas taken from the IL2 community.

It's far more gamey than the MA, even. 1.0 fuel burn with bases 10 miles apart means every plane flies around near empty weight. Almost every time I'm in there it's nothing but people hiding from fights until they think they can pick without being seen. Flying without icons is akin to flying legally blind, and no pilot would be allowed up in the air, ever, with the kind of vision it provides. In reality you can spot airplanes with great clarity at very long ranges. The select few AvA bandwagon-riders use TrackIR and maximum zoom to get around this but don't be fooled -- they have found a way to game the limitations they set for themselves.

It isn't any more realistic nor is it any more elite, and the constant claims that it takes more skill, talent, and l33tness to fly in the AvA is just self-stroking on their part. They throw a condescending attitude into any conversation to the contrary and with a dismissive wave ignore any details, facts, or logical/scientific arguments that counter what they want to believe in.

The AVA is an alternative to the MA's. we have different settings that make it a little harder, and at the same time a little more interesting. its not for everyone. guys like krusty don't do well in that environment, because the icon range is much shorter for friendlies and 0 for enemy.  that doesnt mean its a bad place or elite, that just means its different and maybe, depending on your opinion, slightly more realistic, but different none the less. to every person its something else. give it a try or not, but bashing something you mostly never fly is elitism in itself.  Now back to your regularly scheduled program...............
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: Karnak on September 28, 2012, 03:04:40 PM
Krusty is overly combative, but basically correct about the realism claims and the advantage that TrackIR gives in a no icons environment.
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: Nathan60 on September 28, 2012, 03:16:11 PM
PUH-leeze, Zoney....
Im sorry i love the AVA and am deffinatly onthre band wagon but I dont use track IR, nor am I zoomed in all the time but I dont blame those that do use it as  having unfair advantage as  anybody can get track IR), also I will never claim its hard to kill me  as =I have zero confedence in my ability in this game,  I simply like the AVA because the setups are not the hordefest you often find in the MA and the planets  are as time specific as the GM's can make it(I know, Karnak),people in there aren't as trollish as the MA(IN MY OPINION) nor elitist at all(in my EXPERENCE), Possibly  before I played s there could have been some bad seeds but, I don't let a bad experience at a McDonald's  in 1987 stop me from geeting a sweet tea and a dbl stack now and then. Holding gruges is  never the action of a truely wise man. :old:
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: deadstikmac on September 28, 2012, 04:04:22 PM
No icons is great if you know what you're looking for i.e. american aircraft, luftwaffe, IJN etc. but with everyone flying anything how do you know if you are fighting a friendly or an enemy?

As you and your wing make last minute adjustments you put out on range vox
"Two ponys at twelve-five crusing 400 indicated, heading north, range check for contact, over"

You hear "Roger that northbound ponys me and my wingman are in long visual on airfield 3. We have what looks like three cons lifting and turning nose on. We're on the deck heading west to intercept, will come in over the top and bounce them if we drag them too you?"

"Big Roger That. We are comming in from the two o'clock vector or north by northeast of airfield 3" you reply.

"Roger that dragging them that too you on the deck" you hear.

"Roger That" you respond on range... Then on squad vox you tell your wing to nose on airfield 3.

Silence as you ingress in to help these guys with a 3v2 situation knowing you will quickly make it 4v0  :devil

"Visual! Long eleven" your wingman says on squad vox

"Roger that long viz as well. Let me get them on range" "We got you guys on long viz and are comming down now..."



Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: Karnak on September 28, 2012, 04:06:22 PM
As you and your wing make last minute adjustments you put out on range vox
"Two ponys at twelve-five crusing 400 indicated, heading north, range check for contact, over"

You hear "Roger that northbound ponys me and my wingman are in long visual on airfield 3. We have what looks like three cons lifting and turning nose on. We're on the deck heading west to intercept, will come in over the top and bounce them if we drag them too you?"

"Big Roger That. We are comming in from the two o'clock vector or north by northeast of airfield 3" you reply.

"Roger that dragging them that too you on the deck" you hear.

"Roger That" you respond on range... Then on squad vox you tell your wing to nose on airfield 3.

Silence as you ingress in to help these guys with a 3v2 situation knowing you will quickly make it 4v0  :devil

"Visual! Long eleven" your wingman says on squad vox

"Roger that long viz as well. Let me get them on range" "We got you guys on long viz and are comming down now..."




Pure, unadulterated fantasy.  The reality of it wouldn't bear they slightest resemblance to that.
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: USRanger on September 28, 2012, 04:07:08 PM
PUH-leeze, Zoney....

The AVA is not more "hard core" at all... Its an arbitrarily decided set of rules that a select few think is "more elite" and "requiring more awesome skillz" that they mandate based upon their own prejudiced ideas taken from the IL2 community.

It's far more gamey than the MA, even. 1.0 fuel burn with bases 10 miles apart means every plane flies around near empty weight. Almost every time I'm in there it's nothing but people hiding from fights until they think they can pick without being seen. Flying without icons is akin to flying legally blind, and no pilot would be allowed up in the air, ever, with the kind of vision it provides. In reality you can spot airplanes with great clarity at very long ranges. The select few AvA bandwagon-riders use TrackIR and maximum zoom to get around this but don't be fooled -- they have found a way to game the limitations they set for themselves.

It isn't any more realistic nor is it any more elite, and the constant claims that it takes more skill, talent, and l33tness to fly in the AvA is just self-stroking on their part. They throw a condescending attitude into any conversation to the contrary and with a dismissive wave ignore any details, facts, or logical/scientific arguments that counter what they want to believe in.

Ok....If I see numbers in A vs A, I will be sure to pad my score at the expense of yours like the other 8 guys who own you and somehow fly there without it being apparent in the arena selection screen.

The sad part is that I have only once (11 months ago) seen numbers above zero population and that only lasted a couple of hours before it went back to zero.

The amount of utter bullchit lies in these two posts is mind blowing.  Beyond words.  Since you two dislike the arena so much, and NEVER fly in there, let's keep it that way.  Just...amazing. :rolleyes:
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: Nathan60 on September 28, 2012, 04:08:08 PM
As you and your wing make last minute adjustments you put out on range vox
"Two ponys at twelve-five crusing 400 indicated, heading north, range check for contact, over"

You hear "Roger that northbound ponys me and my wingman are in long visual on airfield 3. We have what looks like three cons lifting and turning nose on. We're on the deck heading west to intercept, will come in over the top and bounce them if we drag them too you?"

"Big Roger That. We are comming in from the two o'clock vector or north by northeast of airfield 3" you reply.

"Roger that dragging them that too you on the deck" you hear.

"Roger That" you respond on range... Then on squad vox you tell your wing to nose on airfield 3.

Silence as you ingress in to help these guys with a 3v2 situation knowing you will quickly make it 4v0  :devil

"Visual! Long eleven" your wingman says on squad vox

"Roger that long viz as well. Let me get them on range" "We got you guys on long viz and are comming down now..."


It must be the weekend that is a Slot ton of rogering going on right there
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: Puma44 on September 28, 2012, 04:37:13 PM
Im sorry i love the AVA and am deffinatly onthre band wagon but I dont use track IR, nor am I zoomed in all the time but I dont blame those that do use it as  having unfair advantage as  anybody can get track IR), also I will never claim its hard to kill me  as =I have zero confedence in my ability in this game,  I simply like the AVA because the setups are not the hordefest you often find in the MA and the planets  are as time specific as the GM's can make it(I know, Karnak),people in there aren't as trollish as the MA(IN MY OPINION) nor elitist at all(in my EXPERENCE), Possibly  before I played s there could have been some bad seeds but, I don't let a bad experience at a McDonald's  in 1987 stop me from geeting a sweet tea and a dbl stack now and then. Holding gruges is  never the action of a truely wise man. :old:
No need to apologize, Nathan.  Enjoy the fun and ignore the simplistic and narrow minded who are stuck it their archaic views.
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: shotgunneeley on September 28, 2012, 05:58:49 PM
I would just like to see a tour where the war was condensed with a rolling planeset.

Hmm that's interesting. Combine into one arena; start, middle, and end of the tour is early, mid, and late war planeset respectively - minus anything that had been taken off the front lines at the particular time period.

Trouble is that we neither have every model nor every design that entered service, e.g. Our b17G covers for early and midwar models (if allowed). players may whine about not being able to perk farm during the late war uber ride period too.

I like it though
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: guncrasher on September 28, 2012, 06:36:52 PM


I would just like to see a tour where the war was condensed with a rolling planeset.

well you can play 1 week in the early war, second week in midwar, 3rd week in late war and as a grand finale last week on the ava.  you can see that every month if you would like :).


semp
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: Nr_RaVeN on September 28, 2012, 08:40:03 PM
PUH-leeze, Zoney....

The AVA is not more "hard core" at all... Its an arbitrarily decided set of rules that a select few think is "more elite" and "requiring more awesome skillz" that they mandate based upon their own prejudiced ideas taken from the IL2 community.

It's far more gamey than the MA, even. 1.0 fuel burn with bases 10 miles apart means every plane flies around near empty weight. Almost every time I'm in there it's nothing but people hiding from fights until they think they can pick without being seen. Flying without icons is akin to flying legally blind, and no pilot would be allowed up in the air, ever, with the kind of vision it provides. In reality you can spot airplanes with great clarity at very long ranges. The select few AvA bandwagon-riders use TrackIR and maximum zoom to get around this but don't be fooled -- they have found a way to game the limitations they set for themselves.

It isn't any more realistic nor is it any more elite, and the constant claims that it takes more skill, talent, and l33tness to fly in the AvA is just self-stroking on their part. They throw a condescending attitude into any conversation to the contrary and with a dismissive wave ignore any details, facts, or logical/scientific arguments that counter what they want to believe in.

krusty is just frustrated because his skill set is limited and his cartoon plane suffers defeat in any environment with less than 6k icons and limeted dar..  :ahand
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: Bino on September 28, 2012, 09:34:05 PM
...
 :joystick: No icons. (No  :cry about this one sissys... If you have never done it with squad mates then how do you know you won't like it? :old:)
...

Really, "sissys"?  Why do so many of the posts about the AvA toss around nonsense like this?

By leading off with immature junk like that, whatever else you might say is very easy to dismiss.
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: Karnak on September 28, 2012, 11:09:20 PM
krusty is just frustrated because his skill set is limited and his cartoon plane suffers defeat in any environment with less than 6k icons and limeted dar..  :ahand
See, this here is the kind of elitist BS that we're referring to.  Why should I play in an environment where I am at a disadvantage due to computer hardware, not skill?

If you prefer ambushes and not fights, no icons is for you.
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: jimson on September 29, 2012, 12:24:28 AM
PUH-leeze, Zoney....

The AVA is not more "hard core" at all... Its an arbitrarily decided set of rules that a select few think is "more elite" and "requiring more awesome skillz" that they mandate based upon their own prejudiced ideas taken from the IL2 community.

It's far more gamey than the MA, even. 1.0 fuel burn with bases 10 miles apart means every plane flies around near empty weight. Almost every time I'm in there it's nothing but people hiding from fights until they think they can pick without being seen. Flying without icons is akin to flying legally blind, and no pilot would be allowed up in the air, ever, with the kind of vision it provides. In reality you can spot airplanes with great clarity at very long ranges. The select few AvA bandwagon-riders use TrackIR and maximum zoom to get around this but don't be fooled -- they have found a way to game the limitations they set for themselves.

It isn't any more realistic nor is it any more elite, and the constant claims that it takes more skill, talent, and l33tness to fly in the AvA is just self-stroking on their part. They throw a condescending attitude into any conversation to the contrary and with a dismissive wave ignore any details, facts, or logical/scientific arguments that counter what they want to believe in.

The first thing to ask is what is the purpose of a post like this? If you don't like the AvA then don't fly in there, but there is no good reason to flame and try to steer people away.

Let people make up their own minds.

Now I'll address the post itself, lot's of misinformation here.

We tried no enemy icons long ago and a lot of people thought it was really cool, so we kept it for quite a while, but due to complaints by folks like Krusty, last year we experimented with turning them back on and guess who was still absent from the arena? The vast majority of the people who demanded they be turned back on.

We did got a lot of complaints from people who were pissed that we turned them back on though.

We conducted an invitation survey and we gathered all the names we could match up with BBS handles who had flown in the arena during times when we had enemy icons on and during times we had enemy icons off.

We expected at best an even split on preference for icons but instead the results were OVERWHELMINGLY in favor of no enemy icons. It wasn't even close.

Arbitrary my butt. We'll listen to the AvA community more than we will bomb throwers with too much time on their hands, thank you very much.

We have two commercial pilots and at least one private pilot who fly in the arena and prefer the no enemy icon setting. You can decide for yourself who is worth listening too.

I never advertise the arena as "elite" and I hate and I mean really hate it when I see other people do that, but there is no doubt that it is a different experience. One that a lot of people who actually fly with us really like.

If you are never there, you won't hear it when more people say "this is really cool" than say "this really sucks."

If AvA is someones favorite arena what do you expect them to say? "Our players are gamey and really suck. The MA is much better!"

I don't know of anyone who flies with view zoomed in, but like everywhere else, we do have a lot of folks who use trackir. So what? No one complains about people using it in other arenas.

It's not easy to run an arena like ours. All the things that make other arenas successful, we can't do. We can't gather scores and stats to match our weekly runs. All that is done on a monthly basis and we aren't going to leave the same setup in for a month. We do not have access to any kind of event logging program.

We can't limit things like 70% fly the P40E and 30 % get the P-47D

We can't have an automatic win the war map rotation and reset because that system is based on 3 country everything enabled and random map rotation, so if it does reset it becomes a mess instead of an AvA playable set up. We can't use perk points because in a Midway or Battle of Britain inspired set up there is no place for C-hogs or 262's.

We are in no mans land without a good way to run an automatic 24/7 arena and without a way to run structured events, but we do sometimes designate special nights to concentrate our smaller population in at the same time so there will be a playable population.

We try to provide an alternative. That's all we can do.

If you don't like the arena, don't fly there, but why trash it? Can't you just keep your effing nose out of it?

Why even try to tell us how to do things when as proven in the past, if we do try them your way, you will be nowhere to be found anyhow?

For anyone who would like to try AvA, we'd love to have you and will try to give suggestions on when you are likely to find the most players in there, but before you listen to other people who try to drive you away from it, you might click on their profile and take a look at how much time they devote to trashing the efforts of volunteers who are not paid or compensated in any way, but still spend significant time trying to provide enjoyment for others.
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: Nathan60 on September 29, 2012, 01:16:00 AM
Really, "sissys"?  Why do so many of the posts about the AvA toss around nonsense like this?

By leading off with immature junk like that, whatever else you might say is very easy to dismiss.


If ya read the earlier posts the guy is new and has limited experience, so can we chalk it up to new guy enthusiasm?
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: Nathan60 on September 29, 2012, 01:18:06 AM
See, this here is the kind of elitist BS that we're referring to.  Why should I play in an environment where I am at a disadvantage due to computer hardware, not skill?

If you prefer ambushes and not fights, no icons is for you.

You can ambush in there but rigth now I am on a spare cmputer(thanks Captian1ma) and its not top of the line,  and I can still be ok in there yes its tough to spot folks but it was tough when I had my comp with a 6870 in it.
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: Puma44 on September 29, 2012, 02:45:59 AM
Pure, unadulterated fantasy.  The reality of it wouldn't bear they slightest resemblance to that.
Got some experience doing it for real, do ya?  At least these guys are giving it a try vs. whining and complaining.
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: surfinn on September 29, 2012, 07:41:09 AM
Me and my squad mates fly in the AvA all the time when the MA gets to be to much. I have to say I always have fun in there it is a new experience and the guys that fly in there are a great group. It really helps your SA skills. Plane color and skins have a real impact and the fights are awsum. I chased a lone buff for 3 sectors on the deck once and kept losing him due to the cammo on his ac. I had to turn my engine off to try to hear his engine to try to find him several times. While this was totally frustrating it was also a blast. The AvA is a great place to fly and honestly if ya don't like it why flame it for being differant than the MA. For me that is what makes it great. :cheers:
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: Karnak on September 29, 2012, 09:43:39 AM
Got some experience doing it for real, do ya?  At least these guys are giving it a try vs. whining and complaining.
I did not mean "real WWII".  I meant the reality of gameplay in settings like that, and yes, I do have a little experience in those settings.
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: matt on September 29, 2012, 09:44:57 AM
extra-hard core = 1 life per month.

that should work well.  :aok


raise the price to $100/ month as well. super hardcore.

:rofl
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: deadstikmac on September 29, 2012, 10:11:19 AM
Really, "sissys"?  Why do so many of the posts about the AvA toss around nonsense like this?

By leading off with immature junk like that, whatever else you might say is very easy to dismiss.


I've never been exposed to the arenas where no icons are the format. Yes I have been playing for four months. Yes it was "immature junk" but also I was trying to be funny, cus I know ppl whine about no icons.....


You are correct however.
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: captain1ma on September 29, 2012, 10:55:08 AM
you cant ambush anyone in the AVA. because of the 'no enemy icons setting',  radar is full on so dot dar is alway running, whether radar is down or not. so if you get ambushed its because you weren't watching your 6.



I was trying to be funny, cus I know ppl whine about no icons.....


don't quit your day job, you're not that funny.
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: Puma44 on September 29, 2012, 12:59:45 PM
and yes, I do have a little experience in those settings.
I wasn't referring to settings and neither was he.  You missed the point.
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: Krusty on September 29, 2012, 01:45:52 PM
Now I'll address the post itself, lot's of misinformation here.

Yes, there is lots of misinformation going around. Most of it from the select few running and controlling the AvA. I'm sorry Jimson, but you have arbitrarily chosen a series of settings to artificially handicap yourselves, and then you claim because you have gamed the NEW game, that you are all better than anyone who doesn't care to fly under your settings.

I'm sorry, but the AvA is a sham. It's an egotistical playground for the AvA regulars. That is why you don't get any new players in there. Just like it was years ago, it's a private club. The club members have changed, and they changed the charter, but it's still the same thing.
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: jimson on September 29, 2012, 03:12:05 PM
Ok then, feel free to stay away from it and threads dealing with it and let people make up their own minds about it then.
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: surfinn on September 29, 2012, 03:35:18 PM
not a "club member" but I still like to fly there :rock
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: Nathan60 on September 29, 2012, 04:59:05 PM
Yes, there is lots of misinformation going around. Most of it from the select few running and controlling the AvA. I'm sorry Jimson, but you have arbitrarily chosen a series of settings to artificially handicap yourselves, and then you claim because you have gamed the NEW game, that you are all better than anyone who doesn't care to fly under your settings.

I'm sorry, but the AvA is a sham. It's an egotistical playground for the AvA regulars. That is why you don't get any new players in there. Just like it was years ago, it's a private club. The club members have changed, and they changed the charter, but it's still the same thing.

Wow Krusty just WOW  I dint thin you know what you're talking about. You have  problem with the staff and that's all there is to this  since your opinions  seem to be based solely on past grievances. Everytime a new player posts something about the AVA you go on this tirade it's time to move on let your wounds heal. I havent seen anything like what you rail agaist in the AVA in my short time there. I am not afrraid to call BS on your post as it is just nothing but hot head propoganda.
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: jimson on September 29, 2012, 05:01:46 PM
Everyone is still invited to come check it out and see if you like it. No club ID card required.

Let you in a little secret. No enemy icons isn't all that much different. You can pretty easily tell who the bad guys are by lack of icon. Realistic or not realistic, a lot of us think it just looks cool.
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: Nathan60 on September 29, 2012, 05:08:30 PM
And since Captain1ma let the cat out the bag  use your clipboard map as it will show you the general area the baddies are. Dont worry about the crowd that says better graphics give an edge as less resolution=bigger 'dots' that are the cons
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: ink on September 29, 2012, 05:21:18 PM
anyone who says icons on is more realistic is...well.......wrong......


I have heard all the explanations...bla bla bla.....is all it is........there is no way a huge neon sign makes up for the lack of vision we have on a monitor.....it goes way beyond that....

no icons=easy to lose sight while fighting...... easy to sneak up on someone....
icons on=impossible to lose sight while fighting.... imposable to sneak up on someone using SA......

gee which one sounds more realistic........

cmon it aint rocket science  :rolleyes:


and never have I heard or got a feeling the AVA'ers were more elite or acted so....... :headscratch:
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: Nathan60 on September 29, 2012, 07:11:30 PM
anyone who says icons on is more realistic is...well.......wrong......

and never have I heard or got a feeling the AVA'ers were more elite or acted so....... :headscratch:

Exatly, pilots will talk abuout losing sigth of a con, you shouldnt be able to instantly pick up a con(IMO)
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: jimson on September 29, 2012, 07:22:55 PM
All I'm willing to say is that it looks more realistic and cool. I know it's not realistic.

Look there are some who make elitist statements. I cringe when I hear them, but I know that some of them are just braggadocio, kind of challenging peoples ego to come check it out. I still don't like to hear that sort of thing, it just plays into the hands of the haters.

One thing for sure is that if a player only wants to fly late war hotrods they may not like the arena, because we often have clunky early planes but they will be up against early planes as well.

I like having to fly different planes all the time.

Helps keep me from ever becoming elite
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: captain1ma on September 29, 2012, 08:55:07 PM
ok guys, time to call it a day. the OP asked for a wish, the respondents put in their 2 cents, lets leave it at that. whats realistic to one, is not to another, so its pointless to argue what you feel is the right or wrong way. the AVA is what it is. the bashers never fly in there, so their opinions are what they are, good, bad or indifferent. continuing this thread and continuing this fruitless path is pointless, so lets just call it a day. those who are the experts at NOT flying the AVA will continue to be experts in their field. the rest of us should try it out when we get a chance, or go have fun with JETWEEK and take our leave from this thread.

thank you for having us. have a nice day!   :aok
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: Nr_RaVeN on September 29, 2012, 09:28:15 PM
Awww whats the big deal to each their own.

 Some folks like icons, some folks don't, and some folks like it both ways. No need to criticise folks for wanting to try something different if they are boared with the Status quo.

Personally I like diversity and feel its closed minded to criticize folks for trying something new.

.... some are sour and closed minded, others are open minded and positive..... Its all in your attitude.... :)


Welcome those who are weak in faith, but not for the purpose of quarreling over opinions.  Some believe in eating anything, while the weak eat only vegetables.  Those who eat must not despise those who abstain, and those who abstain must not pass judgment on those who eat


"Man cannot discover new oceans unless he has the courage to lose sight of the shore."
- André Gide

“Whether you think you can, or think you can't,
you're probably right.”
- Henry Ford

The expert at anything was once a beginner.- Hayes

“I'm not going to limit myself just because people won't accept the fact that I can do something else.- Dolly Parton

"Success is when persistence meets preparation."- Sherrilyn Kenyon

Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: guncrasher on September 29, 2012, 11:10:59 PM
I have been to the ava a few times and always had fun.  but to be honest i cant see the airplanes unless they have an icon.  last time i was there was with jughead and he had a laptop that was like 30 years old while mine is a really nice one.  but due to my eyesight i had to ask him where the planes where till i could see the icon.  that's basically the reason i dont go there.


semp
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: Nr_RaVeN on September 30, 2012, 07:33:09 AM
I have been to the ava a few times and always had fun.  but to be honest i cant see the airplanes unless they have an icon.  last time i was there was with jughead and he had a laptop that was like 30 years old while mine is a really nice one.  but due to my eyesight i had to ask him where the planes where till i could see the icon.  that's basically the reason i dont go there.


semp

Your Right, the correct equipment makes it far more enjoyable. Especially if your eyesight is poor,think of a big monitor as a new pair of glasses.
The correct equipment for a no or limeted icon environment takes simmiming to an entierly new level.

 
Listen, it's 2012, times are changing.. With quality 1920x1080 42"-46" monitors now priced @  $500 and dropping, along with tools like track ir, we are seeing more and more folks moving toward a no icon environment.


 
Limeted icons is not for everyone, but if your willing to add a new and different skill set to your Repertoire. It's well worth the small investment to experience the immersion purity and intensity it offers.

The AVA is a good place to try it out. Icons or not the AVA set ups are fun and have a special event feel to them 24/7 and the crowed is very friendly and supportive,not snobby or elite  :)
CLICK HERE FOR VIDO Tips on playing in a no icon environment (http://www.fogofwar.info/help-tips.html)

(http://www.fogofwar.info/P42inch9_1_.jpg)
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: Wiley on September 30, 2012, 10:33:31 AM
Listen, it's 2012, times are changing.. With quality 1920x1080 42"-46" monitors now priced @  $500 and dropping, along with tools like track ir, we are seeing more and more folks moving toward a no icon environment.


And then there are people who just believe that your eyesight, video setup and how you've got your settings tweaked shouldn't be the single most important aspect of being able to play the game.  :aok

Wiley.
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: Karnak on September 30, 2012, 11:13:24 AM
Listen, it's 2012, times are changing.. With quality 1920x1080 42"-46" monitors now priced @  $500 and dropping, along with tools like track ir, we are seeing more and more folks moving toward a no icon environment.
As I said, you fly with advantages that make it work for you.  For those who don't have those things, no icons is crippling.  I don't have trackIR, which means the zoom is only really useful for things right in front of me as I cannot look at a pixel and then zoom in on it.  Basically the more limited the icons the more dependent on hardware one's success becomes.  Icons are an equalizer.

fyi, 1080p sucks.  My old, sadly no longer working, 23" screen was higher resolution than that.  Unfortunately screen makers are, by and large, abandoning PCs in favor of just making TV screens.  If you want an actual PC screen it'll cost you a lot more.

Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: Nathan60 on September 30, 2012, 02:39:11 PM
And then there are people who just believe that your eyesight, video setup and how you've got your settings tweaked shouldn't be the single most important aspect of being able to play the game.  :aok

Wiley.

I already explained that less resolution means bigger contact dots so I fail to see how this is an advantage. Pleasse explain how having the vid cranked to max is going to help someone see a con dot when higher resolutionn is going to mean that dot is SMALLER?
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: Nathan60 on September 30, 2012, 02:40:20 PM
As I said, you fly with advantages that make it work for you.  For those who don't have those things, no icons is crippling.  I don't have trackIR, which means the zoom is only really useful for things right in front of me as I cannot look at a pixel and then zoom in on it.  Basically the more limited the icons the more dependent on hardware one's success becomes.  Icons are an equalizer.

fyi, 1080p sucks.  My old, sadly no longer working, 23" screen was higher resolution than that.  Unfortunately screen makers are, by and large, abandoning PCs in favor of just making TV screens.  If you want an actual PC screen it'll cost you a lot more.


I dont have those things  and they do not cripple me in any form. I zoom to find contacts but do you often zoom while looking for a con once merged? If your already in contact why zoom? when not in contact and looking for a contact whats so hard about zooming and using mouse. I'm not attackig that you dont have problems but dont assume EVERYONE will have the problems you have. If your eyes are bad that is beyond the control of the staff. Most of the people that have posted negatively about AVA have demonstrated a bias against the staff of the AVA so I take your posts on the subject with that in mind.
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: Wiley on September 30, 2012, 03:55:21 PM
I already explained that less resolution means bigger contact dots so I fail to see how this is an advantage. Pleasse explain how having the vid cranked to max is going to help someone see a con dot when higher resolutionn is going to mean that dot is SMALLER?

I never said having your vid cranked to the max.  What I DID say, is that depending on how you've got your settings tweaked (lower resolution, AA/AF off, and any other little tricks you can use to make that dot bigger or stand out more, most of which makes the game look worse overall) coupled with your eyesight shouldn't be the single most important aspect of your ability to play.

It's cheesy.

Wiley.
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: Nathan60 on September 30, 2012, 04:04:56 PM
I never said having your vid cranked to the max.  What I DID say, is that depending on how you've got your settings tweaked (lower resolution, AA/AF off, and any other little tricks you can use to make that dot bigger or stand out more, most of which makes the game look worse overall) coupled with your eyesight shouldn't be the single most important aspect of your ability to play.

It's cheesy.

Wiley.

OK, and I said I had no problem when I had my computer with the 6870. antialising isnt going to make it stand out more the only valid point here is the lower resoluton, but the trade off in that is a smaller field of view which makes it EASIER to lose sight of a con. I can see soem of your argument but for any setting thier is going to be a trade off and NOTHING that is being discussed between you and I is off limits to anyone else. Track IR is a tool that anyone has access to and once your in a figth your not going to be zoomed in with it as some imply
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: Nathan60 on September 30, 2012, 04:10:34 PM
To be clear the only thing I tweek is the field of view everything else I raise as high as I can to get a prettier game but not lose too much FPS, and with a 6870 Radeon card or a 6600 nvidia card I play about the same in the AVA. The no icons is different from the MA but no amount of tweaking is going o give an unfair advantage no matter how you  look at it as any tweak will have a consequence Lower resolution for bigger con dot? That's going o get you a smaller field of view, raising the field view will get you a smaller con dot. Track ir is usefull in a fight but not when zoomed(unless your at dead 6 and hitting 'z' isn't TRACK ir specific) AA only makes the edges smoother and doesn't help with much of anything other than making the game prettier. I'm not sure what other little tricks there could possibly be, and as for eyesight mines horrible but I dont blame the AVA staff for that.
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: Wiley on September 30, 2012, 04:19:22 PM
Not true.  Turning off AA makes the dots easier to see because it doesn't smooth the edges.

Good for you, you've got your setup so you can see dots.

My point is, the fact that you either have to futz around with your video settings to be able to see them at all, or you can futz around with them to be able to see the dots better shouldn't be the main determiner of your effectiveness.  The guide Raven linked to is a fine example of this:

Quote
3. Set a resolution that is appropriate for your monitor size. Don't run the highest resolution you can just to do it. I use a 19 inch monitor and find 1024 X 768 in Aces High the best for no icons. Find one that works for you.


High resolution and maxed out graphics settings is not always better. Go offline or in an arena like the DA and play with your video settings to discover what settings allow you to "spot the dot" with the greatest ease. Each hardware setup will differ but the things that have worked for my in the past are as follows.


4. Experiment with anti-aliasing. Anti-aliasing smooths the edges by filling in pixels with intermediate colors. On a computer displaying a dark, small object AA sometimes tends to wash it out against the background. Find the AA setting that works best.

With an implied "...because if you don't do this, your ability to spot them will be less than it could be.'

Wiley.
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: Nathan60 on September 30, 2012, 04:31:37 PM
Not true.  Turning off AA makes the dots easier to see because it doesn't smooth the edges.

Good for you, you've got your setup so you can see dots.

My point is, the fact that you either have to futz around with your video settings to be able to see them at all, or you can futz around with them to be able to see the dots better shouldn't be the main determiner of your effectiveness.  The guide Raven linked to is a fine example of this:

With an implied "...because if you don't do this, your ability to spot them will be less than it could be.'

Wiley.
I have never seen that post but I'm sorry  I still don't thin that tweaking anything is the main determiner of effectiveness, I think ACM and SA trumps any tweaking. As I already stated I tweak nothing other than Field of view so I dont see where your going with the bolded part. You can't simply ignore parts of my posts to make your point, or state that something is implied an you see it. I really dont see tweaking as something akin to icon atall your not going to see all the cons all the time and in his post Raven even says to find what works best for you. It's not a gamebreaker IMO it's fine if you opinion differs but dint put your opinion out as fact at every opportunity
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: Nathan60 on September 30, 2012, 04:37:46 PM
Inessence your implying its impossible to be competative in AVA unless you use the setup that works best for you(which you should do anyway), which is kinda asinine as some people have rudders and other "tweaks" and fly in the MA's with such 'tweaks' yet there are people playing with a laptop and mouse and doing well in there. Also how is the no Icons any different from the no icon in FSO?
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: bustr on September 30, 2012, 04:40:44 PM
NrRaven,

The aggressive sell of CT way back when, now AvA. As "a real man knows this is the superior way to play AH" has never worked in the history of AH other than to polorise players. You fail at Marketing 101 since you are not trying to target a specific market but, attempting to create a new market. You fail at marketing 102 becasue you are insulting your possible additional market for not buying your product by telling them how lesser they are by not buying your product.

Escpecialy when you thinly veil the insult that some number of us play AH in the technology dinosaur ages which justifies that the AvA is superior if you have superior technology. Ergo, anyone who dosen't wake up and get with it, is a lesser player than yourself and your small cohort of AvA fans. This only works if your goal is to recriut a specific minority of the general population to an exclusive club or organisation. That I expect from squads like AoM and Top Gun because they focus on being exclusive and highly talanted at ACM. Your defence of your sales pitchs sounds like you are only looking for a few good men.

For many from the MA the best thing you have "poorly" presented is the link to SimHQ's basic gunnery page. You don't even explain a very important technical aspect about gunsights and using them for range finding in Aces High. A 100Mil main ring gunsight in a 512x512 bitmap gunsight file will accuratly give you a fighter's wingspan at 150 yards or the radius of the ring at 300 yards. Or with a Revi a 10m wingspan at 100m.

Fundamentals of Gunnery:  http://www.simhq.com/_air10/air_312a.html

Your sales pitch is a failure becasue you fail to hide your true elitist feelings about the AvA and it's play perameters versus the MA's. You make your targeted sales audience feel insulted if they cannot measure up to the standards you use as your sales imagry to show how playing in the AvA is better than playing in the MA. You are telling your audience you don't want most of them from the very begining of your sales pitch. This only works for Rolls Royce cars and Lear Jet sales. So tell me what percentage of the population owns one of these?? What percentage of the MA population shows up in the AvA??

If you want more players to check out the AvA, stop selling it like the Marines advertising for their Officers Corp and you are the personal personification of an AvA god. You are pissing on their $14.95 a month which is just as good as yours. So they are voting with their feet which product they want to find their "fun" in. This has been the biggest ongoing mistake with the CT\AvA when it comes to who they allow to open their mouths for them. The loudest "Loyalist" is never the best "Publicist" when it comes to winning hearts and minds.
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: Wiley on September 30, 2012, 04:44:37 PM
I have never seen that post but I'm sorry  I still dont thin that tweaking anything is the main determiner of effectiveness, I think ACM and SA trumps any tweaking.


Lose sight, lose fight.  There is precisely nothing more important than being able to follow and track the bandit.  If you don't see the bandit, you have no SA.  All the ACM in the world isn't going to help you if you can't see the enemy aircraft.

Quote
As I already stated I tweak nothing oither than feild of view so I dont see where your going with the bolded part. You can't simply ignore parts of my posts to make your point, or state that someohting is implied an you see it.

What I meant by the bolded part is, you are fortunate enough to have the right combination of settings enabled/disabled by default, and a monitor that allows you to see the dots with your eyesight.  I'm glad you lucked into that.  It doesn't change the fact that for many, we can't see stuff until the dots change somewhere in the 8k range or the 6k range if we're lucky.

Inessence your implying its impossible to be competative in AVA unless you use the setup that works best for you(which you should do anyway), which is kinda asinine as some people have rudders and other "tweaks" and fly in the MA's with such 'tweaks' yet there are people playing with a laptop and mouse and doing well in there. Also how is the no Icons any different from the no icon in FSO?

There's a gigantic difference between having pedals and adjusting your control inputs and being able to see a bandit.  If you don't see that, I can't help you.

As far as FSO, I tolerate low icons in the FSO by pretty much having a seeing eye wingman.

Wiley.
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: Nathan60 on September 30, 2012, 04:56:40 PM

Lose sight, lose fight.  There is precisely nothing more important than being able to follow and track the bandit.  If you don't see the bandit, you have no SA.  All the ACM in the world isn't going to help you if you can't see the enemy aircraft.

What I meant by the bolded part is, you are fortunate enough to have the right combination of settings enabled/disabled by default, and a monitor that allows you to see the dots with your eyesight.  I'm glad you lucked into that.  It doesn't change the fact that for many, we can't see stuff until the dots change somewhere in the 8k range or the 6k range if we're lucky.

There's a gigantic difference between having pedals and adjusting your control inputs and being able to see a bandit.  If you don't see that, I can't help you.

As far as FSO, I tolerate low icons in the FSO by pretty much having a seeing eye wingman.

Wiley.
Wiley severla time this week I had "regualrs" tell mne they never saw me but listend to where i was by engine noise,so even in a fight the guys that have all tweaked out their comps lose sigth of me as for seeing cons at 8 to 6 k th only way i do that is if they are above me and not in clouds, you want to know how peopel know where you are? Hit esc and bring up the clipboard map as the dot radar is up.m My monitor is a 25 inch CRT monitor an its mnot the best out there. I didnt luck into anything I still have difficulty finding a con but Im not going to say "hey this guy saw me first thats not fair' Its nioce of you to tolerate FSO however but your reason for doing so seems flat to me as you can do the same thing in the AVA.
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: Nathan60 on September 30, 2012, 04:59:05 PM
I ahve no problems with your opinion I just don't like how it always seems to be presented as flat out fact by a few people not just you Wiley(not trying to attack) in any AVA discussion. If you would say ['I find it hard to play in the AVA and this is why, but dont let my experence deter you from trying'(like Semp did)  I wouldnt even have posted my responses.
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: deadstikmac on September 30, 2012, 05:01:39 PM
Skuzzy please lock this thread.   :salute
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: bustr on September 30, 2012, 06:39:44 PM
To be honest in the overture of wanting "All" players to take part in the alternative offerings of the AvA. You AvA supporters should perform system environment testing to come up with graphics reccomendations for players not able to resolve dots between 6k reducing into 3k distance on screen.

Instead of insulting the AH community by inference with:

 A. -  the bad economy and their personal economic issues.
 B. - not having your discretionairy income to buy all the toys for big boys in the real gaming world.
 C. - provide solutions that are simple for low caliber hardware like, reduce textures to 512. Or up gamma by so many points in the AvA arena.

If there is a CM setting for (dot size\resolution) at distance past 1k. Just up the damnd thing to training wheels mode and stop punishing people as the price to play in the arena. Otherwise your partisan assaults on legitament paying "Customer" complaints are rank elitism.

I thought Hitech supplied the custom arenas for those who want to practice game play ideological "discrimination" in all of it's elitist glory with your tiny circle of like minded elitists. Not use the AvA to turn Aces High into IL2 without the arena numbers restrictions limited to guys who can afford the big boy hardware list.

Deadstik,

You opened a can of worms you havent a clue about. And NrRaven stomped on the can and smeared worm gunk on the AH community because we don't measure up to his standards when it comes to big boy toys and Aces High manhood. Whats the point of Skuzzy locking the vault since the gold was stolen years ago and you just had to stirr the dried out stick one more time.
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: Nathan60 on September 30, 2012, 06:48:23 PM
All i can say to anyone wanting to try out the AVA is you don't need the uber set up, I don't have it and I do fine in there. Just try it and make your own decision on it. The elitist/Tweaker horse will continue to be beat by people on both sides of the argument, but don't let a opinion on a forum decide wether to try the AVA or not for you. Go in on Tuesday around 9 ESt or later and see what it is about and form your own opinion.
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: guncrasher on September 30, 2012, 06:53:30 PM
Your Right, the correct equipment makes it far more enjoyable. Especially if your eyesight is poor,think of a big monitor as a new pair of glasses.
The correct equipment for a no or limeted icon environment takes simmiming to an entierly new level.

 
Listen, it's 2012, times are changing.. With quality 1920x1080 42"-46" monitors now priced @  $500 and dropping, along with tools like track ir, we are seeing more and more folks moving toward a no icon environment.


 
Limeted icons is not for everyone, but if your willing to add a new and different skill set to your Repertoire. It's well worth the small investment to experience the immersion purity and intensity it offers.

The AVA is a good place to try it out. Icons or not the AVA set ups are fun and have a special event feel to them 24/7 and the crowed is very friendly and supportive,not snobby or elite  :)
CLICK HERE FOR VIDO Tips on playing in a no icon environment (http://www.fogofwar.info/help-tips.html)

(http://www.fogofwar.info/P42inch9_1_.jpg)




I play with a puter that is better than what most players have.  Also have 3 23in monitors, trakir and nice stick setup.  I play with everything on and shadows at 4096 except for em. My fps hardly go below 55.

But i cant see the difference between a shadow and a plane.



Semp
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: icepac on September 30, 2012, 08:16:13 PM
All the things that the A vs A regulars said "we've already tried that" were tried by them.

There are plenty here who are newer than 5 years ago who never got the chance to "try that".

I don't care if the map doen't rotate......you simply make two fields uncapturable.

It's not like 27 guys will be waiting to vulch you because the total arena population is only about 15 people who fly more than 10 sorties in a tour anyway.......the rest fly one or two and leave.

The arena sits empty every time I check it.

It is simply nothing more than another special events arena.

"and carthage must be destroyed"......I mean...."a rolling planeset must be deployed"
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: Wiley on September 30, 2012, 08:23:26 PM
I ahve no problems with your opinion I just don't like how it always seems to be presented as flat out fact by a few people not just you Wiley(not trying to attack) in any AVA discussion. If you would say ['I find it hard to play in the AVA and this is why, but dont let my experence deter you from trying'(like Semp did)  I wouldnt even have posted my responses.

And yet according to you, there is no problem because you can see the dots with your setup, presented as flat out fact.  Same difference.  To be honest, you're a reasonable sort, Nathan.  We both only have our own experiences to go by, we've both only ever looked out of one set of eyes.  I'm basing my opinion on the fact that at native resolution on my 21" monitor, I can't see the dots my squaddies can pick up generally a minute or two of closing before I can.

It's a common enough problem for Dawger among others to have posted a guide on how to get the most out of your monitor and video settings to maximize the visibility.  It's not the first one I've seen.  The fact that you don't experience those issues doesn't change that.

The guys that get my back up are people like the OP and Raven, chest thumping because they enjoy pixel hunt gameplay.

The funny thing is, I never once even mentioned the AvA, I was only referencing the no icon gameplay.  The reasons I don't go to the AvA have very little to do with the icons, I live with my shortcomings in the FSO the same as I have done in other no icon flight sims for around 5 years now.  I get by, although at times I'm sure my wingies have wanted to go, 'Dammit, Wiley, it's right F^&*^&*ING THERE!'

*shrug*  It's a circular argument at this point anyways.  Nobody should let a forum post determine their opinion of something without trying it themselves.

Wiley.
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: Nathan60 on September 30, 2012, 08:25:08 PM
All the things that the A vs A regulars said "we've already tried that" were tried by them.
There are plenty here who are newer than 5 years ago who never got the chance to "try that".
I don't care if the map doen't rotate......you simply make two fields uncapturable.
It's not like 27 guys will be waiting to vulch you because the total arena population is only about 15 people who fly more than 10 sorties in a tour anyway.......the rest fly one or two and leave.
The arena sits empty every time I check it.
It is simply nothing more than another special events arena.
"and carthage must be destroyed"......I mean...."a rolling planeset must be deployed"
Why dont you join the development staff then? You don't liek the set up they get that but plenty of others do and there have been recent polls conducted that back that up.
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: Nathan60 on September 30, 2012, 08:31:04 PM
And yet according to you, there is no problem because you can see the dots with your setup, presented as flat out fact.  Same difference.  To be honest, you're a reasonable sort, Nathan.  We both only have our own experiences to go by, we've both only ever looked out of one set of eyes.  I'm basing my opinion on the fact that at native resolution on my 21" monitor, I can't see the dots my squaddies can pick up generally a minute or two of closing before I can.

I said I dont have a problem, and I am running a lesser setup with no tweaks(other than field of view) I also mention its my opinion. I said it wasnt the MAIN determining factor and everyone has the resouses to counterset the problem t Like I mention in the posts above polls were done and the fact that there are posts guiding how others can tweak thier systems should show there is not eltism by allas a general rule in the AVA IN reavans post he even mentions such and I havent seen it. Im glad you make the point that a forum post should be a determining factor to those who want to try it.
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: bustr on September 30, 2012, 08:49:19 PM
Semp,

If you turn off all bump mapping, shadows, detailed terrain and shiny surfaces. Turn off the horizon. Change your Textures to 512 and up your gamma. You will see the distant dots. But, don't get too close to the ground or water. It shoots depth perception to the chits.

In reverse if the CM has an administrator's option to set the size of the distance dots total pixels past 1k-2k globaly. Setting it to the largest value possible if it's like 4x8 pixels or larger. If color is an option, black, would make this easier for more players to feel comfortable making sense of no icons. But, the few hours from twilight dawn or dusk and low clouds screw this anyway.

Here is a better idea of the physical problem.

First NrRaven talks about using your gunsight to determin distance which is in Mil relationship to the width of the con's wing and the 100Mil diamter of the gunsight ring at known distances. And that is the real reason for the ring in WW2 gunsights. Range finding. Most pilots could not calculate lead using a 100Mil ring.

If we calculate the average fighter's side view at 3000yds by Mil its (.6x3). And if your gunsights are made in 512x512 where 1Mil = 2pixel. (1Milx3Mil) or (2pixel x 6pixel). You won't be eyeballing him on his way into you most of the time due to too few pixels on your screen blending in with the eye-candy. Especialy if you don't have some big boy hardware that can render the contrast of those few pixels in motion.

For many low end puter system owners which NrRaven insults but, pays the rent on the server each month that he plays in while insulting their subscription power to keeping HTC in business. If you have all of the eye-candy turned up at 1024 or higher textures. You won't be seeing much of the con until his tracers, if he leaves them on, shoots past your canopy no matter how vigilent you look for him.

The smart ones will turn tracers off and pick you from below knowing you probably won't change much from your MA graphics settings. And dusk or evening, just stay close to the deck looking up for your cherry pick. In a 2D flat world rendering multiple 2D flat images per minute fooling your eye into thinking it's looking at a 3D picture. Number of pixels and how they contrast to the background feild matters if you want to see something tiny that's in motion across it.

The icon in the MA creates a level opportunity playing feild won or lost by the players ACM skill. In the AvA becasue some players systems do not render the pixel versus background contrast of fighters past 2.5k, or against the ground\water very efficiently. A no icon arena is only a level playing feild for those who have equaly efficient rendering systems of those few pixels befor it's an equal playing feild for the players ACM skill levels. Hardware efficiency matters a bit more in the AvA than it does in the MA becasue of the absence of the Icon in finding your fight.
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: guncrasher on September 30, 2012, 10:20:17 PM
I can live with the icon being at 2.5k or so and it's cool having only one set of planes versus the other.  but what kills me is not being able to see the cons that fly at low alt and thus have no icon.  that's really what keeps me away.

sometimes ava really has no icons in that case in those cases i really just logged off as all i would be is bait.


semp
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: captain1ma on September 30, 2012, 10:35:20 PM
.
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: surfinn on September 30, 2012, 11:45:07 PM
as all i would be is bait.


semp

And thats something new??  :lol  just picking on ya semp :cheers:
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: save on October 01, 2012, 04:38:18 AM
Best solution I've seen for an AVA is from "another game" :

In that game you could have a vertical bar only replacing plane type and range, red for enemy , green for friendly planes.

HO's where rare, since range is your friend if you like to HO/RAM others . and also players with inferior equipment are given a fair chance.
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: kilo2 on October 01, 2012, 07:20:30 AM
I have a normal sized monitor and have no problem with no icon.

In all honesty AvA is not much different than MA. Same stuff happens in there as MA just at a much smaller scale. The only benefit I personally see to flying AvA is that AvA helps your SA.

So if there is an egonaught saying it is the harder more extreme version of AH they are lying to you and themselves.
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: Cheyenn on October 01, 2012, 08:06:21 AM
Enjoy a near empty arena then.  RPS was a failure in WB and considering HiTech was the developer of WB, you would think if the RPS was successful he would have carried it over to AH.  In short, people don't like to be dicated on what they can fly and when, especially if they are paying to play.

ack-ack

ack-ack you are wrong about HiTech making WB's. Ient and HiTech people work together as a team developer on the old Air Warrior Series, when the company
that own the Air Warriors Series sold the company, wildbil and HiTech started to build AH, then wildbil did not like the way AH was being develop, so he left and
started the Ient, and from there he made War Birds. I know the History of both of these companies. I know wildbil and help test Ient Battle Of Britain Sim for the
History Channel back in 1999 or 2000. So before you make a statement of HiTech making War Birds make sure of your facts.
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: kvuo75 on October 01, 2012, 09:05:59 AM
ack-ack you are wrong about HiTech making WB's. Ient and HiTech people work together as a team developer on the old Air Warrior Series, when the company
that own the Air Warriors Series sold the company, wildbil and HiTech started to build AH, then wildbil did not like the way AH was being develop, so he left and
started the Ient, and from there he made War Birds. I know the History of both of these companies. I know wildbil and help test Ient Battle Of Britain Sim for the
History Channel back in 1999 or 2000. So before you make a statement of HiTech making War Birds make sure of your facts.

but hitech did.. i played the beta in 1995 or so. it was called confirmed kill at first.. i remember discussions on the flight sim usenet newsgroup with hitech discussing all types of things about the game.
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: hitech on October 01, 2012, 09:53:36 AM
ack-ack you are wrong about HiTech making WB's. Ient and HiTech people work together as a team developer on the old Air Warrior Series, when the company
that own the Air Warriors Series sold the company, wildbil and HiTech started to build AH, then wildbil did not like the way AH was being develop, so he left and
started the Ient, and from there he made War Birds. I know the History of both of these companies. I know wildbil and help test Ient Battle Of Britain Sim for the
History Channel back in 1999 or 2000. So before you make a statement of HiTech making War Birds make sure of your facts.

Where did you ever get that idea.

I had nothing to do with building AW (other then creating a few tools as a player). And Wild Bill had nothing to do with the creation of AW or Warbirds.

Wild Bill did nothing but put Air Warrior into a box on the shelves of stores, it was created by Kelton Flynn of Kesmei in the late 80's with Johnathan Barron producing the later versions in the mid 90's.

Warbirds was programed by me and originally the company was owned by 3 people John McQueen, (later started WWII Online) Robert Salinas, and myself. It was originally titled Confirmed kill and was release in beta in May 1995, and changed names in August to Warbirds. We had not heard of Wild Bill until about 3 years after the creation of Waribrds. Pyro and I decided to implement the Rolling plane set in Warbirds and Wild bill had nothing to do with it, I am not sure if the implementation happened before or after we merged with Imagic (later named IENT).

Pyro and I left ICI/IENT in November of 1998 and started  HiTech Creations incorporated April 12 1999 and created Aces High along with John Guytan the others who no longer work for me were Nate Mathieu , Veronica Newman and Joan Colceasiour .

HiTech

Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: hitech on October 01, 2012, 10:00:23 AM
All here who have played in a 1 death per day arena say I have.

.
.
.
I Have


HiTech

Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: Wiley on October 01, 2012, 10:33:20 AM
All here who have played in a 1 death per day arena say I have.

.
.
.
I Have


HiTech



Well, technically anybody who's played the FSO has, so I have. ;)

Wiley.
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: Zoney on October 01, 2012, 11:37:20 AM
Wiley is my bestest friend.  We have flow as wingies for countless hours.  I always always always see the dots before he does, and my eyesight is very poor.  I have kerotonitus, a degenrative disorder that one day will take from me, the ability to play the game I love so much.  I love "the idea" of the AvA, because of the historical matchups.  I need the icons however, without them I really have no chance.  Also, when I have played there, specifically with a wingman, (Wiley), I experienced an elitist, uninviting attitude.  We were harrassed for using wingman tactics instead of fighting 1 on 1.  Not just once, several times I have been told by the regulars frankly to "leave if you won't play our way", so I left.  Right now I know it is jet week.  I love flying ME262's.  I would love to fly against other 262's but yet, I have not gone in there.  It is my loss, not the loss of the AvA regulars as they have made it abundantly clear that I am not welcome.

Yeah, this is a very harsh criticism of the AvA.  I would love for my opinion to change because those flying there have changed their attitudes.

In conclusion, for me, I speak for no one else, I need enemy Icon's at 3k and friendly attitudes to come play there.

The setting should not be changed just for me, I understand that.  If that is the settings that the majority want then I have no complaint about that.
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: Cheyenn on October 01, 2012, 11:38:48 AM
 :salute Every One,
I want to say I stand corrected on what I posted. I was going by what I have heard and told by other parties on Ient.
Sorry for making the post
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: icepac on October 01, 2012, 11:52:37 AM
I was just hoping one of the many empty arenas could have a rolling plane set for current players to try out.

A rolling plane set would be hard pressed to further empty out an arena that is already empty.

In other news......It's possible warbirds is currently running a rolling plane set in the main arena.


I remember an air warrior con at the Hyatt in fairfax and feeling that something big was on the horizon.....and it was......and still is.

I went to a lot of gaming cons in the early 90s at the crystal city marriot............most of those games are history.

Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: jimson on October 01, 2012, 12:12:27 PM
Wiley is my bestest friend.  We have flow as wingies for countless hours.  I always always always see the dots before he does, and my eyesight is very poor.  I have kerotonitus, a degenrative disorder that one day will take from me, the ability to play the game I love so much.  I love "the idea" of the AvA, because of the historical matchups.  I need the icons however, without them I really have no chance.  Also, when I have played there, specifically with a wingman, (Wiley), I experienced an elitist, uninviting attitude.  We were harrassed for using wingman tactics instead of fighting 1 on 1.  Not just once, several times I have been told by the regulars frankly to "leave if you won't play our way", so I left.  Right now I know it is jet week.  I love flying ME262's.  I would love to fly against other 262's but yet, I have not gone in there.  It is my loss, not the loss of the AvA regulars as they have made it abundantly clear that I am not welcome.

Yeah, this is a very harsh criticism of the AvA.  I would love for my opinion to change because those flying there have changed their attitudes.

In conclusion, for me, I speak for no one else, I need enemy Icon's at 3k and friendly attitudes to come play there.

The setting should not be changed just for me, I understand that.  If that is the settings that the majority want then I have no complaint about that.


I wanted to be done with this one, but here we go with this crap. The so called AvA regulars change all the time. If there were people in there saying what you claim, they may be long gone.

I have done my level best to get people away from an us vs them mentality, but we can't control what people do all the time.

We can't prevent people from flying how they choose to, and we can't prevent people from complaining to others about it.

Also don't mistake a no enemy icon environment for no icon at all environment. Iv'e flown both and you have friendly icons well within combat distance to help you tell ID friend from foe. For me it boils down to a difference in appearance more than anything else.

I can't speak for everyone, but there are plenty of folks without uber equipment and uber skills who are able to enjoy the arena. I don't have them and I don't have the greatest eyesight either, I'm pushing 50. I also don't have a very good pilot score.

What I do have is a lot of fun in AvA.

Sorry to hear about your vision disorder, Zoney. I certainly don't have any problems like that so I can't relate. We were recently running a Thursday night LW vs 8th setup where we had icons on, we will let you know whenever we do something like that.

For those who haven't been convinced that AvA is the worst place with the worst people in the world, we welcome you to come try it for yourselves.

Nights after 9pm est are the best times, especially Tuesday.

Icepac, deadstik, if you want to discuss some gameplay ideas come on over to the AvA forum. I've helped botch this thread up enough so that's where I will be.

Out.
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: Ack-Ack on October 01, 2012, 12:14:02 PM
ack-ack you are wrong about HiTech making WB's. Ient and HiTech people work together as a team developer on the old Air Warrior Series, when the company
that own the Air Warriors Series sold the company, wildbil and HiTech started to build AH, then wildbil did not like the way AH was being develop, so he left and
started the Ient, and from there he made War Birds. I know the History of both of these companies. I know wildbil and help test Ient Battle Of Britain Sim for the
History Channel back in 1999 or 2000. So before you make a statement of HiTech making War Birds make sure of your facts.


 :rofl

ack-ack
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: deadstikmac on October 01, 2012, 12:36:26 PM
Guys...

My intentions were to throw an idea out there about an arena where NO icons or anything of that nature... Not to reinvent the wheel. I am sorry that I have stird the poop pot on that topic.... I did not realize just how much of a sore topic it was.

Now that everyone has taken a breath...

Lets all rember we are fighting over how much fun something is or could be... In the end it still needs to be fun. What is fun for one person might scare the poop out of another.

Everyone has good valid oppions... But none were really on topic to my OP.


On a side note...  May your aim suck, may your fuel load permantly be 25%, may the sun be in your eyes, and above all may you truly be happy because your good is better and your better is great.
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: surfinn on October 01, 2012, 03:01:45 PM
Zoney

I fly there all the time with my squad mates and we never get flak for using "wing man tactics". The only time it gets to be a problem is when a squad brings in 12 players and gangs every con they find. No Icons can be frustrating especially if your not used to it but as I said earlyer it sure helps improve your SA. I think its great to have a differant type of game play within the same game but that's just my opinion.  :salute sir  Man this thread sure got hijacked.
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: Babalonian on October 01, 2012, 05:33:09 PM
ack-ack you are wrong about HiTech making WB's. Ient and HiTech people work together as a team developer on the old Air Warrior Series, when the company
that own the Air Warriors Series sold the company, wildbil and HiTech started to build AH, then wildbil did not like the way AH was being develop, so he left and
started the Ient, and from there he made War Birds. I know the History of both of these companies. I know wildbil and help test Ient Battle Of Britain Sim for the
History Channel back in 1999 or 2000. So before you make a statement of HiTech making War Birds make sure of your facts.

I'm sorry, you've had to journey through the dark side to us.  :D

Welcome to AH!  :airplane:
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: bustr on October 01, 2012, 06:18:12 PM
No Icon is fun when the arena has several AvA staff present and both sides have 6 to 10 players choosing to furball. The worst issues take place at the end of the evening most of the time after the staff logs out. Or when they are not present at other times. I don't know about the current culture in the AvA but, it's past iterations since 2002 from CT to AvA have always devolved into a semi private, Theme based DA where visitors were guppies for the sharks to take a break from each other. Retaliation was squadmates of one of the guppies coming in to slaughter the sharks.

Creating an arena that only a subset of players can function in well, creates an arena with a dominat culture who feels entitaled to treat the none subset members as outsiders. Thats what the custom arenas are for.

No Icon would play better if the specks and dots at distance were a few pixels larger and had better contrast response across most computers\monitors used by the community. Even with the map aiding your search for cons, it's a crap shoot resolving them as 2D elements moving rapidly on a 2D monitor in low light and CM introduced ground level clouds. And camouflage against the ground aside in the game. In real life the ground stays still while something attracts your eye's motion sensativity as out of place(contrasting) blurring across the ground clutter.

Very often for those who I have compaired experiences with. The description is the dots(cons) are about the same color as the background unless framed against blue sky while in motion until they are close enough to pull their trigger. At which point they contrast as individual entities as long as they stay engaged with you and are inside of 2.5k. Once they or you loose engagement they again diffuse back into the clutter.

Yes a giant flat screen TV on my wall would make these cons easy to see as LARGE pixels opposed to a 50\50 roll of the dice on a 22 inch LCD monitor at 1024 textures. Size and passive contrast from the surrounding pixels makes No Icon fun for a small subset of AH players fortunate to see pixels contrasted from the background more efficiently than most.
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: Puma44 on October 01, 2012, 07:43:58 PM
I don't know about the current culture in the AvA but, it's past iterations
True, you apparently don't know about the current culture.  So, what purpose does the past serve in your statement?  Come on in and give it go.   :salute
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: Zoney on October 01, 2012, 08:03:19 PM
Sounds to me like it's worth another shot, thanks for the invite gents <S>
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: USRanger on October 02, 2012, 02:11:45 AM
You don't need special equipment to do fine in the AvA.  I'm a perfect example.  I have a 10 yr old 19" monitor, a 7 yr old $20 Wal-mart joystick with the throttle broken off except for a 1/4" nub, a GeForce 9600 vid card, and I sit on the floor with my legs crossed & my stick in my lap (no desk).  I think most of the guys I play with in there would say I hold my own most nights.  It's more of a familiarization kind of thing.  My first tour in the AvA I was horrible with no icons.  As time went on I got better & better as it became more familiar.  Now it's the only place I fly except for maybe a half hour a month in the LWA.  No doubt about it I prefer no enemy icons. :aok
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: Puma44 on October 02, 2012, 01:59:31 PM
Ranger is always a tough and challenging fight.  It's even more impressive now, knowing what he's doing it with.   :aok
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: captain1ma on October 06, 2012, 11:34:30 PM
I was just hoping one of the many empty arenas could have a rolling plane set for current players to try out.

A rolling plane set would be hard pressed to further empty out an arena that is already empty.

In other news......It's possible warbirds is currently running a rolling plane set in the main arena.


I remember an air warrior con at the Hyatt in fairfax and feeling that something big was on the horizon.....and it was......and still is.

I went to a lot of gaming cons in the early 90s at the crystal city marriot............most of those games are history.



we're running a rolling planeset in the AVA right now. feel free to check it out. zoney, you too. give it a try. most action is after 8pm EST. you can see the new explosion graphics in the AVA forum or in the AVA if you shoot someone else down. these particular graphics are only in this particular map in the AVA. check it out, have some fun, and bring a friend!
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: Butcher on October 06, 2012, 11:39:14 PM
stay away from the AvA arena, 3 times I went there i found admins not to happy and got kicked.

bunch of kids.
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: jimson on October 06, 2012, 11:59:04 PM
stay away from the AvA arena, 3 times I went there i found admins not to happy and got kicked.

bunch of kids.

I do not appreciate such accusations at all.

I am aware of your complaints that someone muted you in AvA a few weeks back. No admin did.

You see this?  (http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff457/avacmstaff/playermute_zps5d93ea5d.jpg)

Other players can report you and if it happens enough times you will be automatically muted.

You see this? (http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff457/avacmstaff/automute_zps99c7d919.jpg)

Depending on your language, you can get yourself muted on your own.

I have heard no reports of anyone getting kicked from AvA in a long, long, very long time.

You probably just discoed, or you are making it up.

If you are making false accusations, this can be verified by HTC.

The BBS is absolutely the wrong place for this.


Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: USRanger on October 07, 2012, 08:28:07 AM
stay away from the AvA arena, 3 times I went there i found admins not to happy and got kicked.

bunch of kids.

That is an outright lie.
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: Melvin on October 07, 2012, 08:36:38 AM
I've been in and out of the AvA for the last couple of years and have found the staff to be nothing but helpful and polite to all players in the arena.


I think the only time I saw someone grounded was when some knucklehead decided to make an attack run on a pre-planned memorial flight.


AvA and it's staff are  :aok in my book.
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: captain1ma on October 07, 2012, 09:56:34 AM
stay away from the AvA arena, 3 times I went there i found admins not to happy and got kicked.

bunch of kids.

that's not quite true, you flew 2 hours in july. nothing before, or since. we have no record of you being kicked out of there. we document things like that. sorry that it happened to you, if in fact, it did happen to you. are you sure it was the AVA? who was the admin that kicked you out? did they give you a reason?

Maybe you would consider giving it another shot. we'd be happy to help you out or accommodate you in any way.

i could send you some lederhosen or some sheep if it would make your flying experience better! :D   let us know what we can do to help make your time and experience in the AVA, a more pleasurable one. there have been lots of people in there this week, especially with the rolling planeset and the exciting new map and the awesome graphics. i don't see how your complaint is a valid one at this time.
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: USRanger on October 07, 2012, 10:51:59 AM
stay away from the AvA arena, 3 times I went there i found admins not to happy and got kicked.

bunch of kids.

That is an outright lie.

Actually, I'm not done yet.  Not even close.  This isn't the first time you've been busted telling total lies on the forum is it F-18 boy.  We "AvA people" don't bother anybody, whether in-game, or on the forums.  Yet love muffines like you, Karnak & Krusty seem to get your microscopic rocks off trying to start problems for us when you know damn well you have no good reason other than to be a piece of crap lying retard with nothing better to do.  You want to start problems with your bullchit lies?  You came to the right place moron, because I'm done letting you idiots tell your lies and badmouth good people that have done nothing to you.  You think the anonymity of the internet gives you permission to tell lies and be an all-around waste to the community.  Jaeger's post proves you are a liar and don't even fly in the AvA.  Keep it that way.
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: Puma44 on October 07, 2012, 11:06:48 AM
The last time I remember you in the AvA was probably the July time period Jaeger mentions. I remember some of your text shots about a 2v1 to other players was starting a urination contest in both directions.  On the text buffer, I asked everyone to take it easy and have fun.  Shortly thereafter, you asked via text, why you were muted.  I was the only admin in the arena and replied via text that I did not mute you and did not know how or why you were muted.

My fellow AvA staffers are some of the most close knit guys I've ever been associated with and all are dedicated to making the AvA a fun experience for all.  Our intent is bring something new and challenging for those who are interested.  So, if you're looking for something a little different and challenging, come on back and give it a go.   :salute

Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: Puma44 on October 07, 2012, 11:09:59 AM
Sorry, double tap. 
Title: Re: HardCore
Post by: Melvin on October 07, 2012, 11:10:41 AM
Wall of angry text.

Ranger, get a hold of your emotions and don't let that guy drag you down to his level.

 :salute