Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: SEraider on October 01, 2012, 11:08:20 PM
-
Hi all, I ran across this thread. Definately a lot to think about our future regarding how to look at jobs and productivity.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMF-Z74C1QE&feature=youtu.be (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMF-Z74C1QE&feature=youtu.be)
DISCLAIMER: Some of you may be sensitive to this topic due to recent job losses or displacment from this great recession or depression. My thoughts and respects to all of you who were effected. :salute
-
Hi all, I ran across this thread. Definately a lot to think about our future regarding how to look at jobs and productivity.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMF-Z74C1QE&feature=youtu.be (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMF-Z74C1QE&feature=youtu.be)
DISCLAIMER: Some of you may be sensitive to this topic due to recent job losses or displacment from this great recession or depression. My thoughts and respects to all of you who were effected. :salute
(http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/262/320/021.gif)
-
You can't do ..... with innovation without capital, unless you're in a non-capitalist system, and then, whats the motivation to innovate?
-
My question is this...when worker productivity rose from 1950 to 1978 by 97% and worker income rose a corresponding amount, 94% and then from 1978 to present productivity rose 80% and worker income rose only 10%, or BARELY keeping up with inflation, where is the incentive to produce? The income of the top 1% has quadrupled or quintupled, depending on whose stats you use. The fact that those of us who PRODUCE the work have been stepped on and ignored for the last 34 or so years indicates that our capitalist system is every bit as flawed as the Communist system was. I'm not advocating for socialism/communism, but something has to give. At this rate, I predict a US Bastille Day will come...and soon.
-
My question is this...when worker productivity rose from 1950 to 1978 by 97% and worker income rose a corresponding amount, 94% and then from 1978 to present productivity rose 80% and worker income rose only 10%, or BARELY keeping up with inflation, where is the incentive to produce? The income of the top 1% has quadrupled or quintupled, depending on whose stats you use. The fact that those of us who PRODUCE the work have been stepped on and ignored for the last 34 or so years indicates that our capitalist system is every bit as flawed as the Communist system was. I'm not advocating for socialism/communism, but something has to give. At this rate, I predict a US Bastille Day will come...and soon.
So your income only rose 10% since 78? Are you really producing?
-
This process as been going for the past 40 years, it is now affecting the so called middle classes.
These academic jobs are being taken over by technology.
In the UK there was a large manufacturing base which was left to wither on the vine due to lack of investment.
The Economic policy of the Thatcher government deregulated the Financial sector which resulted in a surge in the service sector which benefited everyone with access to cheap credit.
The result is here now and not unforeseen, the anxiety of the so called middle classes is shameful as they had no concern for the working classes who were left to wither on the vine.
The investment culture has come to bite them on the backsides and they ring their hands horror.
"Who is to blame? Its not us? We are not at fault! We need to blame someone!" (Middle-Classes)
I wonder who they will blame? and will the next leader have a little mustache or and little square one? :rofl
I am going to build wall for someone for cash in hand cya :)
-
So your income only rose 10% since 78? Are you really producing?
That's after adjusting for inflation, shuffler...and HELL YES, I PRODUCE!!! Much more than the best of the averages. I manage AND maintain an apartment community, alone, except for rare instances that I must use a contractor for a job bigger than I am. I lay vinyl, hardwood floors, do all make-readies. I complete ALL service orders same day, and work an average of 50 to 60 hours EVERY week. I'm HVAC certified, a Certified Pool Operator and a Certified Lead-based Paint renovator. I'm on call 7/24/52. and I'm making less than what I earned in 2005, let alone 2007. Shuffler, you sound like a typical Mitt Romney Republican, accusing others who work VERY hard, for slave wages, of not being either intelligent or ambitious. I resent the implication of your response, sir, and ask that you seek to put yourself in the shoes of those of us who do work hard, pay our taxes and our bills, and don't live higher than we should by using credit. If ALL the workers in the US went on strike for just a few days, all your wealthy businesses would go to hell in a hand basket. It's about time that the value of the workers, the ones who put YOUR production out, be recognized for what we are...THE BACKBONE of the USA!
-
:salute
-
And Shuffler, if it sounds like you got under my skin...you did. Any time someone insults those of us who work for a living, it bothers me.
-
That's after adjusting for inflation, shuffler...and HELL YES, I PRODUCE!!! Much more than the best of the averages. I manage AND maintain an apartment community, alone, except for rare instances that I must use a contractor for a job bigger than I am. I lay vinyl, hardwood floors, do all make-readies. I complete ALL service orders same day, and work an average of 50 to 60 hours EVERY week. I'm HVAC certified, a Certified Pool Operator and a Certified Lead-based Paint renovator. I'm on call 7/24/52. and I'm making less than what I earned in 2005, let alone 2007. Shuffler, you sound like a typical Mitt Romney Republican, accusing others who work VERY hard, for slave wages, of not being either intelligent or ambitious. I resent the implication of your response, sir, and ask that you seek to put yourself in the shoes of those of us who do work hard, pay our taxes and our bills, and don't live higher than we should by using credit. If ALL the workers in the US went on strike for just a few days, all your wealthy businesses would go to hell in a hand basket. It's about time that the value of the workers, the ones who put YOUR production out, be recognized for what we are...THE BACKBONE of the USA!
First off I asked a simple question. You come back like a hothead. Maybe that is why your stuck where you are.
I'm an American and a business owner. I am neither republican or democrat. In my opinion neither can change a roll of toilet paper much less run a business or country. But it's not about me.... it's about you working in a job that evidently has no future.
I pay my taxes. As an employer I also match what taxes my employees pay in dollar for dollar. Then I pay taxes on my trucks, buildings, furniture and electronics..... every year. Even though I own them. I also pay property taxes.
Businesses pay many/much more in taxes that what you see on an income tax report.
-
And Shuffler, if it sounds like you got under my skin...you did. Any time someone insults those of us who work for a living, it bothers me.
Well if you're not happy with your pay then I'd suggest looking for better employment.
Don't go around accusing folks of insulting you that only asked a simple question.
-
While worker's wages have remained more or less stagnant for the past 30 years, the disparity between rich and poor in the us has come down to par with most 3rd world countries.
-
The fact of the matter is in the Global economy impacts "Both" the "Worker" and the "Businessman".
A good businessman and employer who is just in and fair to his employees will succeed.
A worker who works hard will come into his own in this time of recession.
In regards to looking for better employment that's all well and done in the current climate, all that can be said that anyone who works hard and struggles should be held in high respect.
And a businessman who works hard and is fair should also be held in high respect.
I am thinking of becoming a Capitalist oppressor of the proletariat, At present have become self employed as a consultant :)
-
The main issue the video is implying is whether the digital age is affecting our ability of earning a living? A sub-point is whether businesses are investing in capital equipment without hiring people for effeciency standards.
For example, we just purchased a large piece of equipment with an automated robot. Without the robot, we would need 3 operators for this particular project. We can now have one operator saving us tens of thousands of dollars per year. In my company, our goal is to cut our laborr force 60% in the next 10 years to keep up with globalized competative force.
The ultimate question is, whether humanity as a whole will be better off in the long run.
-
New technology is not the problem its the downturn of the economy, the undeveloped markets of the non industrial societies will in the future be the new markets for products.
-
New technology is not the problem its the downturn of the economy
i beg to differ. technology is displacing the work force as it has been since the first assembly line robotics were introduced. the whole thing has been a steadily increasing chain reaction...and we haven't seen the worst of it yet.
what technology hasn't replaced is quality, but that's another story.
-
That's after adjusting for inflation, shuffler...and HELL YES, I PRODUCE!!! Much more than the best of the averages. I manage AND maintain an apartment community, alone, except for rare instances that I must use a contractor for a job bigger than I am. I lay vinyl, hardwood floors, do all make-readies. I complete ALL service orders same day, and work an average of 50 to 60 hours EVERY week. I'm HVAC certified, a Certified Pool Operator and a Certified Lead-based Paint renovator. I'm on call 7/24/52. and I'm making less than what I earned in 2005, let alone 2007. Shuffler, you sound like a typical Mitt Romney Republican, accusing others who work VERY hard, for slave wages, of not being either intelligent or ambitious. I resent the implication of your response, sir, and ask that you seek to put yourself in the shoes of those of us who do work hard, pay our taxes and our bills, and don't live higher than we should by using credit. If ALL the workers in the US went on strike for just a few days, all your wealthy businesses would go to hell in a hand basket. It's about time that the value of the workers, the ones who put YOUR production out, be recognized for what we are...THE BACKBONE of the USA!
You pay those taxes so Romney and people like him don't have to
-
You pay those taxes so Obama and people like him don't have to
How astute of you Coombz! I never would have figured you mature enough to see past shallow political jabs in another country that you know far less about than you pretend to.
-
i beg to differ. technology is displacing the work force as it has been since the first assembly line robotics were introduced. the whole thing has been a steadily increasing chain reaction...and we haven't seen the worst of it yet.
what technology hasn't replaced is quality, but that's another story.
I think that's the 1/2 of it. Employment and productivity increases have rose together each of the last decades. What the he is saying is that last decade, employment decreased at the end of the decade as compared to the start of the decade. This is the 1st time this has happened in modern history due to the start of the digital age.
Question is, is this an economic cycle regarding a downturn, or a new economy and therefore, we should start to think radically different in terms of our place in the world?
-
30 years working with wood. Never seen it so good.
I got lucky and ignored the doom masters who said I was an idiot!
-
This is too funny...it's not about MY pay, it's about the FACT that WORKERS are producing more, and getting paid LESS. Make sure all you "business owners" out there make your profit. Too many clear 250,000 a year, while not paying their employees a living wage, and YOU think WE owe YOU something. As I said in my earlier post, YOU don't produce, the WORKERS produce. Without the workers, you have nothing. Shuffler, you obviously didn't read my initial post correctly ....you mistakenly, or by choice, said MY pay hadn't increased, when what I SAID was that workers have continued to produce more, while getting less money for that work, in proportion to the INCREASE in production. I will state it more plainly. We the workers are working longer, harder and doing a better job, while the employers are choosing to put that increased profit into THEIR pockets instead of giving at least some of it to the very people who do the job the employers can't. Yes, CAN'T or are too lazy to....
-
This is too funny...it's not about MY pay, it's about the FACT that WORKERS are producing more, and getting paid LESS. Make sure all you "business owners" out there make your profit. Too many clear 250,000 a year, while not paying their employees a living wage, and YOU think WE owe YOU something. As I said in my earlier post, YOU don't produce, the WORKERS produce. Without the workers, you have nothing. Shuffler, you obviously didn't read my initial post correctly ....you mistakenly, or by choice, said MY pay hadn't increased, when what I SAID was that workers have continued to produce more, while getting less money for that work, in proportion to the INCREASE in production. I will state it more plainly. We the workers are working longer, harder and doing a better job, while the employers are choosing to put that increased profit into THEIR pockets instead of giving at least some of it to the very people who do the job the employers can't. Yes, CAN'T or are too lazy to....
-
If ALL the workers in the US went on strike for just a few days, all your wealthy businesses would go to hell in a hand basket. It's about time that the value of the workers, the ones who put YOUR production out, be recognized for what we are...THE BACKBONE of the USA!
Wouldn't that be great?! No food, water, power, police, firemen, television, radio, internet or anything! And those evil, greedy businessmen would all go broke so nobody would be there to hire everyone back - fantastic! You really thought that one through. :aok
Would be especially fun at nuclear plants. Everybody just take a few days off. Power to the people!
-
Working for a company is so hard to do.....they pay me well, I have benefits, and money being put away towards my retirement......
Can I get bashed for making a good living? Tell ya what, I work for the company so I expect to meet the standards of the comapny. If I cant do that, I'll move on......
So, explain to me why I should be upset with executives making lots of money?
So many people have forgotten what it means to "Live within their means". But few of them have ever forgotten how to lay blame and point a finger...........
-
Have some of us watched the video before commenting?
-
This is too funny...it's not about MY pay, it's about the FACT that WORKERS are producing more, and getting paid LESS. Make sure all you "business owners" out there make your profit. Too many clear 250,000 a year, while not paying their employees a living wage, and YOU think WE owe YOU something. As I said in my earlier post, YOU don't produce, the WORKERS produce. Without the workers, you have nothing. Shuffler, you obviously didn't read my initial post correctly ....you mistakenly, or by choice, said MY pay hadn't increased, when what I SAID was that workers have continued to produce more, while getting less money for that work, in proportion to the INCREASE in production. I will state it more plainly. We the workers are working longer, harder and doing a better job, while the employers are choosing to put that increased profit into THEIR pockets instead of giving at least some of it to the very people who do the job the employers can't. Yes, CAN'T or are too lazy to....
That's right, It's all about class warfare! You were forced to take and keep the jobs you have! You never had a choice to put it on the line and take the risks that evil business people have but certainly deserve whatever you think your fair share of the proceeds are by confiscating them! Forward!
-
Wouldn't that be great?! No food, water, power, police, firemen, television, radio, internet or anything! And those evil, greedy businessmen would all go broke so nobody would be there to hire everyone back - fantastic! You really thought that one through. :aok
Would be especially fun at nuclear plants. Everybody just take a few days off. Power to the people!
Have trouble discerning the difference between literal and figurative speech?
-
That's right, It's all about class warfare! You were forced to take and keep the jobs you have! You never had a choice to put it on the line and take the risks that evil business people have but certainly deserve whatever you think your fair share of the proceeds are by confiscating them! Forward!
So, you think that going back to the days of child labor, and mistreatment of workers would be good....and LAWDY! Let's us awl git back them slaves! Then we don't have ta pay nobody! Sheeeeeeeesh! This is about the fact that workers not businesses have increased production. The workers definitely deserve better than minimum wages, which many get. You see, we're not all like ole Mitt, with his Swiss bank accounts, and money hidden in the Caymans.
-
The TED video was very interesting.
I was an employee before I became a business owner, and there is one question nobody seems able to answer: Why do people think their work is more valuable this year than the last? If you produce more value for your employer you deserve more pay, but there seems to be a general idea that every year every worker should get a raise regardless of performance. The wage push is the driving force behind inflation as higher labor costs passed on to the consumers by the producers.
-
You pay those taxes so Romney and people like him don't have to
I bet you did not pay near what romney or obama did.
They pay their share and more if they are business owners.
They get the same write offs you do.
They invest heavily and make more jobs. When money from the government (our money) is given to people to make jobs it is only temporary. Folks who have businesses make more permanent jobs.
As the saying goes..... take the money from the rich and give it to the poor...... within about a year the one's who had it originally will have it back.
Starting a business is a big step. It's easy for someone sitting in their easy chair to complain...... but without those businessmen/women there would be no jobs at all.
Any time the government gets involved in business it means bad news for the employees. The recent insurance boondogle means our employees get less coverage and it cost them more. We have always paid for the employees coverage. The employee pays for their family.
-
The TED video was very interesting.
I was an employee before I became a business owner, and there is one question nobody seems able to answer: Why do people think their work is more valuable this year than the last? If you produce more value for your employer you deserve more pay, but there seems to be a general idea that every year every worker should get a raise regardless of performance. The wage push is the driving force behind inflation as higher labor costs passed on to the consumers by the producers.
I did finally watch it, apologies to the OP for being part of hijacking his thread.
Employees do more work, theoretically each year, because they gain experience. That experience leads to more production, which leads to more profit for the business owner. If the owner is making more money, why on earth should the employees expect more, themselves.
A note so that it's understood that I am NOT referring to any kind of resentment about my own wages. I do just fine. Should be gettin more, but...eh....
-
This is too funny...it's not about MY pay, it's about the FACT that WORKERS are producing more, and getting paid LESS. Make sure all you "business owners" out there make your profit. Too many clear 250,000 a year, while not paying their employees a living wage, and YOU think WE owe YOU something. As I said in my earlier post, YOU don't produce, the WORKERS produce. Without the workers, you have nothing. Shuffler, you obviously didn't read my initial post correctly ....you mistakenly, or by choice, said MY pay hadn't increased, when what I SAID was that workers have continued to produce more, while getting less money for that work, in proportion to the INCREASE in production. I will state it more plainly. We the workers are working longer, harder and doing a better job, while the employers are choosing to put that increased profit into THEIR pockets instead of giving at least some of it to the very people who do the job the employers can't. Yes, CAN'T or are too lazy to....
You are the one mistaken... I asked.... not stated. It is "your" choice to accept what you do for compensation. You seem to expect others to do something for you. If your waiting for that... you have a long wait in store.
Try taking action instead of complaining on a game board. Find someone who will pay you what you think you are worth. You seem to have a lot of experience in several areas. You should be able to sell yourself fairly easily.
-
Hey Shuffer! If EVERYBODY started their own business...who the would work for you? Somewhere down the road, someone has to be an employee. Fact of life, and yes,many, MANY out there deserve a lot more than they're being paid.
-
Hey Shuffer! If EVERYBODY started their own business...who the would work for you? Somewhere down the road, someone has to be an employee. Fact of life, and yes,many, MANY out there deserve a lot more than they're being paid.
I agree some out there deserve more and some deserve less.
-
For what its worth - I started a business here in the vast metropolis of 29 Palms - mobile computer repair, website design and creation, uploading and all that good stuff. Steady stream of customers, but not enough to pay the bills. Fortunately for me, I've now got a full time job - I almost got to the stage of needing to employ someone - so I put ads in all the usual places - number of takers 2, number of takers with the necessary experience - 0. Yep, even for simple jobs, not one person with computer experience.
Do I think people get paid enough - no. Do I think the big companies take too big a slice for the upper management - yep. That said, unless you are one of the big companies out there, the owner of that company is taking a bigger risk than the employee's (yes, I know, but bear with me). He/She not only has to build the company, buy the real estate for the company, pay the taxes for that company - pay the employee's of that company etc etc etc - and is using his/her own money to do so. The economy sucks - big time - to the extent I've ceased trading (didn't want to, but with a full time job, I can't commit the time to my previous clients).
Would I start my own company again if required - most definitely - would I do things different the 2nd time round - you better believe it - would I keep going were the jobs/clients not coming in - if I had no choice, yes (caveated with but I'm not prepared to run at a loss again.
Sorry, rambled a lot there.
Wurz
-
I did finally watch it, apologies to the OP for being part of hijacking his thread.
Employees do more work, theoretically each year, because they gain experience. That experience leads to more production, which leads to more profit for the business owner. If the owner is making more money, why on earth should the employees expect more, themselves.
A note so that it's understood that I am NOT referring to any kind of resentment about my own wages. I do just fine. Should be gettin more, but...eh....
In theory that experience leads to more production, but in reality the dude working on an assembly line is not producing more this year than he did last year because the speed at which he works is limited by the whole production line. In many jobs where you can increase production workers should get more pay for producing more, but they have to show they actually are contributing more to the company's bottom line. Many workers (over here at least) expect more pay just because they've worked for a company for some time.
-
So, if the value of a product goes up, the profit is totally thanks to the owner of the business? My original post was in reference to that fact that overall, in the US, worker production has increased by 80%, whereas OVERALL, worker wages have only increased by 10%. All that money is going somewhere, and it's not proportionately going to the workers. 10% is seriously wrong, and it IS showing today in our country. You say workers should work harder...WE ARE.
-
I have no idea where you get those numbers or what they represent. If by "worker production" you mean hours worked, then I can only assume that US production has shifted to less profitable jobs that can't easily be outsourced. As I understand it now even burger-flipping is considered industrial work in the US. How much an hour of work is worth depends a great deal on what work you're doing. As I understand it US high- and middle-income jobs are being replaced by low-income jobs.
Edit: Profits are up because companies use cheap labor from the third-world to do your job, not because American workers work harder. You can't hope to compete with Chinese labor wages.
-
Here's the problem: http://www.businessinsider.com/middle-class-jobs-are-being-replaced-by-lousy-low-pay-jobs-2012-9
With more and more globalization of the economy we will at some point only have one global economy, and then the question is: Why should a worker in the west get more pay than say a Chinese worker for the same work?
-
I think the unfairness many folks take issue with is the fact that low/middle income jobs have not seen much of an improvement (which is to be expected being competitors in a global workforce) but despite this a widening gap between CEO/regular guy's pay - for decades now.
-
Unfairness is a strange concept when dealing with economics. The CEO's pay is a direct result of the company's economic fortunes in competition with other companies. I.e. more profit, more pay. In contrast, the employee's pay is the result of his/hers competition with other workers. Top executives are making more money because they are using cheaper overseas labor to make their products. The American worker on the other hand has to compete against the overseas workers and lose out. The overseas workers are earning a lot more that they otherwise would. I don't know where the concept of fairness comes to play in this though. I feel I need to repeat the question: Why should a worker in the west get more pay than say a Chinese worker for the same work? Isn't that unfair?
-
Have some of us watched the video before commenting?
some, not most, would be my guess. which is a shame because most TEDs are worth watching all the way through, then pondering on for a while :headscratch:
-
This is too funny...it's not about MY pay, it's about the FACT that WORKERS are producing more, and getting paid LESS. Make sure all you "business owners" out there make your profit. Too many clear 250,000 a year, while not paying their employees a living wage, and YOU think WE owe YOU something. As I said in my earlier post, YOU don't produce, the WORKERS produce. Without the workers, you have nothing. Shuffler, you obviously didn't read my initial post correctly ....you mistakenly, or by choice, said MY pay hadn't increased, when what I SAID was that workers have continued to produce more, while getting less money for that work, in proportion to the INCREASE in production. I will state it more plainly. We the workers are working longer, harder and doing a better job, while the employers are choosing to put that increased profit into THEIR pockets instead of giving at least some of it to the very people who do the job the employers can't. Yes, CAN'T or are too lazy to....
i was trying to stay out of this, but i need to put this single response in here.
i am a business owner. i own a 3 bay auto repair shop. i work 6 days a week, 10+ hours a day. i had a part time employee. i started him off at $20/hour, based on the credentials he provided to me. that is very good pay for a mechanic. most will never start a mechanic at that rate of pay, nor will most pay a mechanic that much if he is unable to diagnose(which this guy couldn't).
i paid for his lunch every day. if he needed a little extra money, i fronted it ot him. i took very good care of this guy. the only reason he left, was due to the fact he needed full time work, and i didn't have the work/money to pay him full time. if he was still with me, i'd probably have had him to full time by christmas.
i make a decent profit. i pay all of my taxes on that profit. i work my butt off. much harder than i did when i was working for someone else. sometimes i long for the days when i worked for someone else, having fixed hours. when i do, i just walk out in the parking lot, and look back at the shop with MY name over the bay doors. then i realize how worth it it is to me to work the crazy hours i do.
those crazy hours have let me get a nice car, which i otherwise may not have afforded. they make it easier to pay my mortgage. they let me take care of mom better(although she fights me on this...she doesn't like taking help or money from me)
what i'm getting at, is it sounds like you're assuming business owners don't care. if i'm assuming incorrectly, i apologize. i treat my employees as i have been treated at jobs i've worked at...which is very good.
many of us are working our butts off to make something of ourselves. please don't assume we don't care.
-
Starting a business is a big step.
to be honest.......i was absolutley terrified when i was starting my shop. i was leaving a good paying very stupidly crazy secure job that i may not have been able to get back in order to do this. i am SOOOOOOOOOO glad i pushed past that fear.
-
[..]I feel I need to repeat the question: Why should a worker in the west get more pay than say a Chinese worker for the same work? Isn't that unfair?
I agree with you here. I never said that was fair, but that isnt the point as this wage difference is in the process of global arbitrage and subsequently evening out. Even China now has emerging troubles with other countries undercutting their prices (but that's a good sing because it means China's wages have gone up quite a lot)
[..]Unfairness is a strange concept when dealing with economics. The CEO's pay is a direct result of the company's economic fortunes in competition with other companies. I.e. more profit, more pay. In contrast, the employee's pay is the result of his/hers competition with other workers. Top executives are making more money because they are using cheaper overseas labor to make their products. The American worker on the other hand has to compete against the overseas workers and lose out. The overseas workers are earning a lot more that they otherwise would. I don't know where the concept of fairness comes to play in this though.[..]
Why should a larger pool of workers drive prices down like economics dictates, yet a larger pool of CEO material drive executive's prices up?
Shouldn't be stockholders (the owners of the company) cash in the alleged higher profits?
The unfairness stems from the fact that what you describe isn't what is actually happening, upper echelon compensation disconnected from both company profits and file-and-rank employees decades ago and went up disproportionally.
-
No one has a right to any particular wage. Only the right to trade value for value.
-
I very sorry to mention his name :rofl
I will repeat I am very sorry to mention his name :cry
Again before you colonials reach for your carbines :rofl
Karl Marx :rofl
ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhh :rofl
Just read his theory once, you wont get arrested or turn into a commie and you won't stop being a American :)
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh :rofl
Well I tried, reading a theory is not a sin :rofl
It also explains the Video.
-
I very sorry to mention his name :rofl
I will repeat I am very sorry to mention his name :cry
Again before you colonials reach for your carbines :rofl
Karl Marx :rofl
ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhh :rofl
Just read his theory once, you wont get arrested or turn into a commie and you won't stop being a American :)
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh :rofl
Well I tried, reading a theory is not a sin :rofl
It also explains the Video.
Zach should have known better than to mention that name in front of a bunch of yanks.
Get a rope.
-
For what its worth - I started a business here in the vast metropolis of 29 Palms - mobile computer repair, website design and creation, uploading and all that good stuff. Steady stream of customers, but not enough to pay the bills. Fortunately for me, I've now got a full time job - I almost got to the stage of needing to employ someone - so I put ads in all the usual places - number of takers 2, number of takers with the necessary experience - 0. Yep, even for simple jobs, not one person with computer experience.
Do I think people get paid enough - no. Do I think the big companies take too big a slice for the upper management - yep. That said, unless you are one of the big companies out there, the owner of that company is taking a bigger risk than the employee's (yes, I know, but bear with me). He/She not only has to build the company, buy the real estate for the company, pay the taxes for that company - pay the employee's of that company etc etc etc - and is using his/her own money to do so. The economy sucks - big time - to the extent I've ceased trading (didn't want to, but with a full time job, I can't commit the time to my previous clients).
Would I start my own company again if required - most definitely - would I do things different the 2nd time round - you better believe it - would I keep going were the jobs/clients not coming in - if I had no choice, yes (caveated with but I'm not prepared to run at a loss again.
Sorry, rambled a lot there.
Wurz
hell I didn't know you were in 29 Palms......do you know a Mark and Pam Fields...he is a fire fighter...or was...he is my Uncle.....they have been there for many years now.
(hijack over)
-
The TED video was very interesting.
I was an employee before I became a business owner, and there is one question nobody seems able to answer: Why do people think their work is more valuable this year than the last? If you produce more value for your employer you deserve more pay, but there seems to be a general idea that every year every worker should get a raise regardless of performance. The wage push is the driving force behind inflation as higher labor costs passed on to the consumers by the producers.
Thats not quite how it works... supply of workers drives their pay, not their productivity. recession == large supply == stagnant wages.
-
i was trying to stay out of this, but i need to put this single response in here.
i am a business owner. i own a 3 bay auto repair shop. i work 6 days a week, 10+ hours a day. i had a part time employee. i started him off at $20/hour, based on the credentials he provided to me. that is very good pay for a mechanic. most will never start a mechanic at that rate of pay, nor will most pay a mechanic that much if he is unable to diagnose(which this guy couldn't).
i paid for his lunch every day. if he needed a little extra money, i fronted it ot him. i took very good care of this guy. the only reason he left, was due to the fact he needed full time work, and i didn't have the work/money to pay him full time. if he was still with me, i'd probably have had him to full time by christmas.
i make a decent profit. i pay all of my taxes on that profit. i work my butt off. much harder than i did when i was working for someone else. sometimes i long for the days when i worked for someone else, having fixed hours. when i do, i just walk out in the parking lot, and look back at the shop with MY name over the bay doors. then i realize how worth it it is to me to work the crazy hours i do.
those crazy hours have let me get a nice car, which i otherwise may not have afforded. they make it easier to pay my mortgage. they let me take care of mom better(although she fights me on this...she doesn't like taking help or money from me)
what i'm getting at, is it sounds like you're assuming business owners don't care. if i'm assuming incorrectly, i apologize. i treat my employees as i have been treated at jobs i've worked at...which is very good.
many of us are working our butts off to make something of ourselves. please don't assume we don't care.
you are a rarity cap :salute
Most see the recession as an opportunity to exploit. The failure this has is that in all biz what one is ultimately investing in is people, not filling roles, many MBAs & bean counters haven't gotten the memo. Harvard Biz review has an excellent, albeit old article on this in regards to the the Johnsonville sausage company.
-
Thats not quite how it works... supply of workers drives their pay, not their productivity. recession == large supply == stagnant wages.
Yes.
Capitalists want a large supply of workers to keep wages down. This is why they built the "Channel Tunnel" in the UK to bring in cheap labor from the Eastern Europe. For every £5 pound they earned here was worth £20 in Eastern Europe. The Capitalist was able to reduce cost and maximize profits because the new intake of employee's were working all hours because relatively low wages in reality for "Them" were great.
The downside is that the British workers are having to work for less money to stay in work, the people who turn round and say this is because the British workers are lazy and are demanding to much money are just being silly and short sighted.
This is why your Steel Industry has gone down the toilet because they have people in India doing the job for 1/10 of the wages.
The free market is the "ONLY" way to stimulate economies but unfettered Capitalism has its drawbacks such as the social impact on societies and the recessions that occur because of lack of financial control.
I went to Florida a couple of years ago, very nice people, but the poverty I saw of the beaten track was very upsetting. (I was born in house with outside toilet and cobbled streets by the way in 1965).
Ask Yarbles he is a investment banker I told him about the problems in the City and the imminent recession.
Oh by the way I am going to buy a new car, not on credit but with cash... Its called "saving your money up" :rofl
-
You pay those taxes so Romney and people like him don't have to
When was the last time a poor person hired you to work? Oh never. The higher the taxes are on business the less they have to hire and invest in growth. The way to get America or any other countries economy rolling is to cut corporate tax all together since they only pass it on to the consumer anyway. Cut capital gains to 5% and dump the EPA, it is the biggest job killer in history. Do this and jobs will poor into the US.
If you think taxing the rich is the way to prosperity look a California, Illinois, Ohio, Michigan, New Your and all of the northeast. They are all on the verge of bankruptcy from 60 years of irresponsible voting. Now look at low tax states like Texas, Florida and other southern states with very low taxes and no state income tax at all. Texas accounted for 49% of all job growth in the US in the last 5 years. The socialist model has never worked any place it was tried. Read The road To Serfdom by Friedrick Hayek to start if you want to learn something other than what you hear from the news media.
-
When was the last time a poor person hired you to work?
when was the last time a guy with no money bought your product or services?
semp
-
If you Yanks can access the BBC there are three programs about wealth at present the three are Hayek,Maynard Keynes and Marx. :old:
R105 consumers need jobs to benefit from tax cuts. Its a economic fact look it up that the working mans wages has not risen in real terms for the past 10 years in Britain and for the last 15 years in the US.
Don't get all angry look it up, I repeat don't get all angry LOOK IT UP. :)
The unrestricted working practices of the Financial sector (BANK) are a testament to Hayek . :rofl
The Chinese are socialist and they have stole all your kinsman's jobs :rofl
Please don't mention the word "Socialism" is serves no purpose and gets people angry, it took me months to clear those reds from under my bed :old:
Stalin said if he lived in Britain he would vote Conservative because they could not help themselves for being greedy and he would shoot the Socialists because there were the betrayer's of the Proletariat :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
Get my Gunn boy! :rofl
-
Economic power is shifting away from the USA, this is intentional..
China is the new favored superpower by the elite.. They have a totalitarian
society, slave labor, eugenics programs, organ harvesting.. All those Statist
wetdreams are reality in China, that is why the big money is moving there..
America is to be DEindustrialized, eliminated as a sovereign nation.. Folded into
the "North American Union".. The US constitution is being gutted right now..
This is why these new crippling restrictions are being placed on the US economy..
While the favored "International Corporations" are being exempted from them..
This why the rights of US Citizenship are being intentionally eroded.. Our borders
left wide open, and foreigners being given benefits that our own citizens cannot..
America is being intentionally hamstrung, and kicked in the gonads..
Step by step, this plan is being carried out.. Elections mean nothing anymore..
Just a Kabuki show for the weak minded, or self deluded.. R's and D's are just
two sides of a wooden nickel.. The same bureaucrats, that are appointed not
elected, are the ones with the real power.. They all come from the same pool,
no matter which political party is in power.. And the owned presstitute media
provide cover and make excuses and diversions to keep the herd distracted..
There are SO MANY clear indications of this, right in front of us..
People know subconsciously that this is happening, they can FEEL IT..
But many just refuse to look at "the elephant", pretending it doesn't exist..
And some, have sold themselves to it, hoping to gain an advantage over
others, during and after this intentional collapse.. Traitors!
This progomme was clearly laid out a generation ago.. People said it was crazy..
Now we see the results! BUT, people continue to say this is "Stupidity" or "ineptitude"
on behalf of our elected "leaders".. LOL, yeah sure.. These activities are too concerted
orchestrated, well timed, to be ineptitude.. If you can't see that, the stupidity is YOUR OWN!
:uhoh Trap is almost closed!
-
when was the last time a guy with no money bought your product or services?
semp
I am always surprised by how many people can not understand how the capitalist system works. It is why America became the greatest nation in the history of the world and why we are the richest population with the highest standard of living ever. We only started to fade once we as a nation moved away from what got us here to start with. I am old enough to remember how the country was before the non producers discovered they could vote themselves a living from the national treasury. Once the United States has been destroyed where are you going to go to find this life we have here in this great country? We are all the stands between you and a new dark age.
-
R105 - Sub prime and Lehman's - Hayek :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
If you ignore me R105 I will go away :rofl
-
If you Yanks can access the BBC there are three programs about wealth at present the three are Hayek,Maynard Keynes and Marx. :old:
brilliant series that, Stephanie Flanders has explained pretty complex economic theories in a way that almost anyone can understand :aok
-
She looks mucky as well :)
-
Economic power is shifting away from the USA, this is intentional..
China is the new favored superpower by the elite.. They have a totalitarian
society, slave labor, eugenics programs, organ harvesting.. All those Statist
wetdreams are reality in China, that is why the big money is moving there..
America is to be DEindustrialized, eliminated as a sovereign nation.. Folded into
the "North American Union".. The US constitution is being gutted right now..
This is why these new crippling restrictions are being placed on the US economy..
While the favored "International Corporations" are being exempted from them..
This why the rights of US Citizenship are being intentionally eroded.. Our borders
left wide open, and foreigners being given benefits that our own citizens cannot..
America is being intentionally hamstrung, and kicked in the gonads..
Step by step, this plan is being carried out.. Elections mean nothing anymore..
Just a Kabuki show for the weak minded, or self deluded.. R's and D's are just
two sides of a wooden nickel.. The same bureaucrats, that are appointed not
elected, are the ones with the real power.. They all come from the same pool,
no matter which political party is in power.. And the owned presstitute media
provide cover and make excuses and diversions to keep the herd distracted..
There are SO MANY clear indications of this, right in front of us..
People know subconsciously that this is happening, they can FEEL IT..
But many just refuse to look at "the elephant", pretending it doesn't exist..
And some, have sold themselves to it, hoping to gain an advantage over
others, during and after this intentional collapse.. Traitors!
This progomme was clearly laid out a generation ago.. People said it was crazy..
Now we see the results! BUT, people continue to say this is "Stupidity" or "ineptitude"
on behalf of our elected "leaders".. LOL, yeah sure.. These activities are too concerted
orchestrated, well timed, to be ineptitude.. If you can't see that, the stupidity is YOUR OWN!
:uhoh Trap is almost closed!
It is nice to see an educated comment. You are correct on all points. As a teen in the 60s I asked my Dad what the difference between the Democrats and the republicans are. My Dad said they are both taking us to the same place the difference is the Democrats are taking us there in a speeding train and the Republicans are taking us in a covered wagon. I am a constitutional conservative and I agree with my old man.
-
hell I didn't know you were in 29 Palms......do you know a Mark and Pam Fields...he is a fire fighter...or was...he is my Uncle.....they have been there for many years now.
(hijack over)
Hey Ink, I might know them, i have a terrible memory for people and names tho. Small world huh, talk about 6 degree's of separation.
Looks like you'll have to visit brother - :D :D
Wurz
-
Hey Ink, I might know them, i have a terrible memory for people and names tho. Small world huh, talk about 6 degree's of separation.
Looks like you'll have to visit brother - :D :D
Wurz
ya small world for sure.....they have lived there for 20 plus years.....he rides a Harley but more like a weekend Biker...definitely not the outlaw biker....
wish I had a pic of him..
edit
grabed one from his FB
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/254029_1552927801939_1017067_n.jpg)
I have wanted to get out there.... almost did when I took the road trip years but never made it that far.
I have seen pics of his place and the area....... it is beautiful. :aok
-
Yep, it has a certain harsh beauty out here - if ya ever visit, strongly suggest its not in July, August or September - as thats when its the warmest. October is generally really nice tho - warm, but not too warm, no humidity, beautiful evenings.
Lemme know if your coming over.
Dont recognise the face, but thats not too much of a surprise,
Wurz
-
Why should a larger pool of workers drive prices down like economics dictates, yet a larger pool of CEO material drive executive's prices up?
Shouldn't be stockholders (the owners of the company) cash in the alleged higher profits?
They do. After all it is the shareholders who hire the board of directors and top officers of their company. There is a distinct difference between how the system works for a lower-rank employee and a top level executive. Just by hiring a known successful executive you can open doors that would otherwise be shut for your company; It's a cutthroat environment were you put your reputation and future career on the line by taking a job.
If a famous successful top level executive lends his name to your company by, for example, accepting a position on the board of directors, that says to the business world that the famous executive believes in your company, to the extent that he is willing to stake his reputation, and thereby his future, on it. That opens doors to investments, banks, other successful businesses etc. It's very much like how Hollywood works where having a famous actor on board opens doors to actually getting the film financed and produced. That famous actor stakes his reputation on that film, and having been successful in the past means a lot.
Having good successful company officers is an investment in the future that can make or break a company; thus it's a highly competitive job market where companies are willing to pay more and more for the top people. However a welder is a welder is a welder, and no matter how good he is he's not going to open doors for your company. Workers compete against each other for available jobs. Companies compete against each other for available successful top level officers. The wages reflect this fact.
-
Do you want America to remain being a super power?
Then get off your rear, get a 'fn education in something valuable and quit whining... otherwise you are part of the problem, not the solution and should look no farther than yourself for the decline. :aok
We as a nation have some of the lowest percentage of collage grads in any first world country, and we wonder why we have high unemployment :rolleyes:
I tried to hire engineers (many), and struggled to find many..... ... and I pay nice 6 figure salaries...
Most people I have found are on visas.... why? because they study... you whine
So quit being a loser.... and take responsibility....
-
Thats not quite how it works... supply of workers drives their pay, not their productivity. recession == large supply == stagnant wages.
I though that was what I was saying. Sorry for the confusion. :)
-
So nobody has any thoughts on the digital age stuff that the video presented?
-
Actually I've been discussing a similar theme with my friends for some time. There's going to be a huge economic revolution when robots and AI's become our new workforce/slaves. There won't be work for everyone, at least not work as we perceive it today. Personally I see a future where most people work with what they want; be it science, art, entertainment or whatever, because all out needs are met by technology doing the work for us. Kind of an Roddenberryan future. Will probably be some hard times before that though as nothing world-changing ever happens painlessly.
-
long-run I dont think it will make much difference. its not like innovation is a recent thing - we've been doing it since we stared using tools and walking upright. we can only guess what effects the invention of the plough, or iron working had because there isnt much data. however the start of the industrial revolution is well worth looking at because there is loads of data. iirc the long-term unemployment rate hasnt changed significantly in the last 250yrs, except for the usual fluctuations caused by business cycles, wars, and radical tech breakthroughs. short-term there can be big effects, long-term almost none.
something that has increased continually in the last 250yrs is quality of life for even the poorest members of society. measure it how you want - infant mortality, calories/day, life expectancy, wages, political rights etc etc - life is easier than it used to be and continues to improve, although at a decreasing rate due to the decreasing resources per capita.
-
Actually I've been discussing a similar theme with my friends for some time. There's going to be a huge economic revolution when robots and AI's become our new workforce/slaves. There won't be work for everyone, at least not work as we perceive it today. Personally I see a future where most people work with what they want; be it science, art, entertainment or whatever, because all out needs are met by technology doing the work for us. Kind of an Roddenberryan future. Will probably be some hard times before that though as nothing world-changing ever happens painlessly.
long-run I dont think it will make much difference. its not like innovation is a recent thing - we've been doing it since we stared using tools and walking upright. we can only guess what effects the invention of the plough, or iron working had because there isnt much data. however the start of the industrial revolution is well worth looking at because there is loads of data. iirc the long-term unemployment rate hasnt changed significantly in the last 250yrs, except for the usual fluctuations caused by business cycles, wars, and radical tech breakthroughs. short-term there can be big effects, long-term almost none.
something that has increased continually in the last 250yrs is quality of life for even the poorest members of society. measure it how you want - infant mortality, calories/day, life expectancy, wages, political rights etc etc - life is easier than it used to be and continues to improve, although at a decreasing rate due to the decreasing resources per capita.
Both excellent points. I can not say I agree or dissagree with this video. I did not have time to digest what this could truley mean for everybody. But it does beg the question and radical thought process of how as GShcolz says; "at least not work as we perceive it today."
-
So nobody has any thoughts on the digital age stuff that the video presented?
MY THOUGHTS ON THE VIDEO.....
as far as replacing workforce with robots, that is an opportunity. someone has to build them. someone has to maintain them. i view this as more of a "shift" in skilled labor, rather than an elimination of it.
jobs such as mine, the guy doing apt. complex maintenance, line workers(the guys that get to go up on telephone poles in storms) can never be replaced by robots. cooks, wait staff, limo taxi, and bus drivers....none can be replaced by robots. and for the record, i'd read somewhere that skilled auto mechanics, techs, and diagnosticians are running short. that's a good field to get into right about now.
just my thoughts.......
-
Both excellent points. I can not say I agree or dissagree with this video. I did not have time to digest what this could truley mean for everybody. But it does beg the question and radical thought process of how as GShcolz says; "at least not work as we perceive it today."
Creativity and the ability to make associations out of non-obvious relationships are problems we have not been able to solve, ie we don't understand how we do it. As such, we have not successfully implemented it. Now as for the video, until we reach a point where the things we create are able to create, it is a non starter. People have been predicting the undoing of man due to technology since first invented the wheel, and probably before. Yet, as others have pointed out, technology has made our lives significantly better than they once were. Are you an optimist or are you a pessimist? that is the question at stake here fundamentally.
-
I am always surprised by how many people can not understand how the capitalist system works. It is why America became the greatest nation in the history of the world and why we are the richest population with the highest standard of living ever. We only started to fade once we as a nation moved away from what got us here to start with. I am old enough to remember how the country was before the non producers discovered they could vote themselves a living from the national treasury. Once the United States has been destroyed where are you going to go to find this life we have here in this great country? We are all the stands between you and a new dark age.
:rofl brilliant
They really do brainwash you in the states eh?
btw you dont have anywhere near the highest standard of living, no US cities are even in the top 10
-
Will Bunnies die? That is the question at stake here fundamentally.[/i]
Corrected. :banana:
I am sooooo sorry Ardy, I could not resist!!! :rofl
As for human development, we should be optimistic right? We have to make way for progress and make the best of it. Change is part of life. :old:
-
Corrected. :banana:
I am sooooo sorry Ardy, I could not resist!!! :rofl
As for human development, we should be optimistic right? We have to make way for progress and make the best of it. Change is part of life. :old:
"To die or not to die" -Shakesehäschen
:rofl
I am optimistic too....
Think of it as a mirror.... reflecting ones general attitude.
-
The video doesn't really give a justification for a utopian vs dystopian future though the lecturer says he believes in the former. I think it is impossible to say whether the future will be better or worse than the present. There are so many assumptions when it comes to that judgement that I don't think it is possible to make it honestly.
Retrospectively I feel like my life is better for such things as running hot water and literacy but I don't know how my life today would appear to someone in my circumstance from 200 years ago. I know that a persistency bias might tend to make us believe that since technological advancement has benefitted us in the past it will continue to do so in the future. I don't believe this is a valid assumption whether or not the outcome is in line with it. The thing I feel certain of is that this second industrial revolution will cause dislocation and will make obsolete many of the systems and institutions that we rely on today to secure a modicum of happiness. New ones will no doubt develop but we may well have no more fulfilling lives than we do today.
In a utopia there would be universal freedom from drudgery and the more extravagant kinds of pain. Technology holds great promise in the abstract for the elimination of these however the quirks of a society,(the desire for dominance for example,) may severely impede the kind of progress we desire.
It seems to me that while the industrial revolution has given many of us lives of luxury you can also draw a line straight to the bloody revolutions, famines and wars of the twentieth century from that development. How you balance the scales depends upon where you fit in in the whole swirling thing.
-
I nearly fell of my chair when that guy was complaining he could only get foriegn engineers, and he blamed his own kinfolk :rofl
My father has worked in the oil industry for 40 years and informed me that Korean,Indian enginneers who have been trained by the "State" are now engineers.
In the UK their is a skills shortage "Not because the indigenous population is stupid and lazy" but because the traditional industries and Educational facilities have withered due to emphasis on the City of London.
The influx of foriegn engineers is a testament to the betrayl of the British people.
It was all planned 40 years ago "Its not a conspiracy" its actually written down in EU policy.
I repeat for the Americans "It not a conspiracy"
1. Britain - Finance and the city of london.
2. France - Agriculture and state funded car manufacturing.
3. Germany - Industrial heavy industry and manufacturing.
4. Spain - Tourism
Its cheaper to get a engineer who has been trained and educated by another country.
The outlook is poor for Western society when businessmen,Governments and Elites wave thier flags and say how patriotic they are whilst betraying thier own kinfolk.
This forum is fantastic for sociologist or phychiatrist, human self denile and arrogance all in the black and white :rofl
-
... traditional industries and Educational facilities have withered due to emphasis on the City of London.
utter tosh - tax revenues from the City have been propping up traditional industries for half a century, and of course funding schools and universities. it is also a massive exporter, reducing our trade deficit. without it we couldnt do much more than a bit of farming and some tourism.
british workers have indeed been betrayed since the war, by governments imposing 95% income tax rates driving skilled workers and entrepreneurs overseas, by power-crazed union leaders like Jimmy Reid destroying traditional industries, by a complete absence of immigration policy allowing a flood of semi- and unskilled workers to overwhelm an economy that needs skilled workers, and by a welfare system that disincentivises education, training and work.
-
I nearly fell of my chair when that guy was complaining he could only get foriegn engineers, and he blamed his own kinfolk :rofl
I did the same in this forum... one must know that in American culture there is an element of anti-intellectualism that I feel holds us down from being what many of us could be.
The outlook is poor for Western society when businessmen,Governments and Elites wave thier flags and say how patriotic they are whilst betraying thier own kinfolk.
...and a dictionary failed you... its 'their' :D
While I agree that many people use & have used patriotism as a guise to manipulate people to for their own agenda ultimately betraying them, I am not nearly as pessimistic about the future as you. That said, rabid nationalism is a politician's wet dream...
This forum is fantastic for sociologist or phychiatrist, human self denile and arrogance all in the black and white :rofl
:rofl :rofl very true
-
RT how dare you used expletives like "utter tosh" to me I demand an apology :old:
I agree investment comes from the City,I was referring to the credit based boom we have seen over the last 30 years which has took president over traditional industries.
And the Subsequent dumbing down and the stupid expectations of the working classes. (University places for all nonsense).
I also agree with your comments on welfare and Unions (Which can be a good thing, they have Unions in Germany that liaise with the government, and welfare is essential for the few who struggle)
The stupidity of the British people is self evident,high expectations(X Factor), greed(national lottery,scratch cards).
Explain the term RT "Good credit rating" and "Your investment my go up or down".
This is my view "Good credit rating" = "Your a stupid fool who is in debt and has no savings"
"Your Investments my go up or down" "The banks are telling they are no very good with money and might loose it for you"
I put a substantial amount of money in a new bank account after selling property and they said my "Credit rating was poor because I was not a clown who bought on the "Never Never".
The Lottery is a glaring example of the stupidity of the common man in Britain "I might win and gain those things I want :cry Flippen clowns "Its pays for charities" Flippen clowns (Its a stealth tax).
"Hayek" as R105 stated and his refusal to reply "Subprime" and "Lehmans" "Libor" "UBS warburg"
I used to process that Swiss banks data :rofl
I demand satisfaction RT I challenge you to a dual "You Capitalist oppressor of the Proletariat" :rofl
Oh i apologize Ardy "Their" - I was on the lav at the time at a critical moment :old:
-
Search "Global Future 2045 International Congress" This is being sponsored by the UN..
Transhumanism is the next goal, after the creation of the "Global Governance"..
Robots taking your jobs, ain't the 1/2 of it..
Check out the vid, "2045 a new era for humanity" "Neohumanity"?????? :rofl
There are some people in the world, who have gathered WAY too much power..
These people will make the Nazi/Communists look like a bunch of twinkies..
Gettin time to let the "air" out of them.. Otherwise, those who are left after
Deindustrialization, and the great cull, will no longer even be human at all..
Homo Sapien Superior vs Homo Sapien Mundane, guess who wins???
edit: This is ALL about control, and not just control of society..
They want CONTROL OF HUMAN EVOLUTION ITSELF... :huh
-
Oh i apologize Ardy "Their" - I was on the lav at the time at a critical moment :old:
no need, I was just joking with you about spelling... I frequently make mistakes typing on the bbs too.
-
(http://nextround.net/upcoming/thumbs/2010/02/11/Inglourious-Basterds-Grammar-Nazi.jpg)
:D
-
(http://cdn-www.i-am-bored.com/media/3502_inglorbastend.jpg)
-
I nearly fell of my chair when that guy was complaining he could only get foriegn engineers, and he blamed his own kinfolk :rofl
Why didn't you just call me out by name? I even set you up to for it
I did the same in this forum...
(http://nextround.net/upcoming/thumbs/2010/02/11/Inglourious-Basterds-Grammar-Nazi.jpg)
hey now... I did have a 'smiley face' next to my initial 'grammar nazi' comment.
-
:)
:rofl
Pies cannot be replaced :)
-
:rofl brilliant
They really do brainwash you in the states eh?
btw you dont have anywhere near the highest standard of living, no US cities are even in the top 10
I live in Florida 2 miles from the beach. My house, car, truck and Harley are all paid for and I don't owe a dime to anyone. I am twice retired once from the Army and once from a privet company. I will be 60 at the end of Oct. I would say that is a pretty good standard of living. Even the sick lame lazy and crazy of this country live better than any place in the world. They have cars big screen TV's A/C free housing Medicaid and government issued cell phones in addition to food stamps. All at the expense of the American workers. Put this crowd in 90% of any other country in the world and these people we call our poor would be considered rich.
-
We have lots of fat people in the UK who are bone idle :)
-
Put this crowd in 90% of any other country in the world and these people we call our poor would be considered rich.
Zimbabwe?? :D
-
I live in Florida 2 miles from the beach. My house, car, truck and Harley are all paid for and I don't owe a dime to anyone. I am twice retired once from the Army and once from a privet company. I will be 60 at the end of Oct. I would say that is a pretty good standard of living. Even the sick lame lazy and crazy of this country live better than any place in the world. They have cars big screen TV's A/C free housing Medicaid and government issued cell phones in addition to food stamps. All at the expense of the American workers. Put this crowd in 90% of any other country in the world and these people we call our poor would be considered rich.
damn it i knew i should have stopped whining 10 years ago when i was homeless while making 50k a year. between my truck, child support, insurance and gas, i could only afford to get a motel room once every other week. I lived like like that for about 10 months taking showers in gas stations to save the 2 bucks that I would have spend at the truck stop.
my mom who is unemployed along with her boyfriend due to the economy are renting rooms to 2 other people. once making 45k a year and he's my sister's boss, the other makes about 30k a year and neither one of them can afford a place of their own. my mom and her boyfriend buy crap at yard sales and sell it at swapmeet to make ends meet. my mom's boyfriend could have gotten unemployment but he didnt want it as he said that as long as he could walk he would somehow find something to work in.
myself will be homeless in about 4 to 5 months as my gf lost her job and I wont be able to make the apartment payments and that's how long our savings will last, my gf cant go back to work as she's got some really exciting news from her doctor last week after complaining about the same stuff for 2 years.. I know another guy that works in my company that makes 60k a year is married with 3 kids and lives in somebody's garage.
lots of us arent in bad shape because we are lazy or stupid. but things are changing now and it's getting more expensive in some places. I could move to another place that has a lower standard of living but then again they wont pay much in jobs to live there.
so if you can live a good live be happy about it. some of us cant or will not soon live like that not due to being stupid or lazy, but sometimes that's how the cookie crumbles. we dont beatch or moan or treat others as if they are inferior to us.
semp
-
damn it i knew i should have stopped whining 10 years ago when i was homeless while making 50k a year. between my truck, child support, insurance and gas, i could only afford to get a motel room once every other week. I lived like like that for about 10 months taking showers in gas stations to save the 2 bucks that I would have spend at the truck stop.
my mom who is unemployed along with her boyfriend due to the economy are renting rooms to 2 other people. once making 45k a year and he's my sister's boss, the other makes about 30k a year and neither one of them can afford a place of their own. my mom and her boyfriend buy crap at yard sales and sell it at swapmeet to make ends meet. my mom's boyfriend could have gotten unemployment but he didnt want it as he said that as long as he could walk he would somehow find something to work in.
myself will be homeless in about 4 to 5 months as my gf lost her job and I wont be able to make the apartment payments and that's how long our savings will last, my gf cant go back to work as she's got some really exciting news from her doctor last week after complaining about the same stuff for 2 years.. I know another guy that works in my company that makes 60k a year is married with 3 kids and lives in somebody's garage.
lots of us arent in bad shape because we are lazy or stupid. but things are changing now and it's getting more expensive in some places. I could move to another place that has a lower standard of living but then again they wont pay much in jobs to live there.
so if you can live a good live be happy about it. some of us cant or will not soon live like that not due to being stupid or lazy, but sometimes that's how the cookie crumbles. we dont beatch or moan or treat others as if they are inferior to us.
semp
Ever been overseas??? (not a cruise in, or tourist trap?)
I remember a whole community, existing off of what was in our garbage!
-
Ever been overseas??? (not a cruise in, or tourist trap?)
I remember a whole community, existing off of what was in our garbage!
Depends on the country.... Unlike 30 years ago, technically we don't have the highest standard of living anymore. I believe we are no 13 in per-capita... and its been like that for at many years (pre-2008). We also have a gini coefficient that is closer to 3rd world countries than other first world countries (China and the USA have almost the same index). That being said, all of us are pretty damn lucky we were born Americans as the odds were against us...
300,000,000/7,000,000,000 = 4.2% chance.
-
When DARPA or other blackbag insititutions finally funds the money to the right non-moraled scientists and engineers, they will have created both robotic soldiers to wage war and human cloning with instant adult human form to create a slave class, then what will the humans do?
That is the end game for technology innovation. Is that a utopian future or a dstopian future? Depends on what side of the gun barrell your at.
-
Depends on the country.... Unlike 30 years ago, technically we don't have the highest standard of living anymore. I believe we are no 13 in per-capita... and its been like that for at many years (pre-2008). We also have a gini coefficient that is closer to 3rd world countries than other first world countries (China and the USA have almost the same index). That being said, all of us are pretty damn lucky we were born Americans as the odds were against us...
300,000,000/7,000,000,000 = 4.2% chance.
The "Oil economies" skew that graph a bit..
Some good points tho, true enough.. No doubt things are changing for the worse.. I've lived it, seen it happen..
As restrictions are placed on us, we loose the Liberties that created our magnificent prosperity in the first place..
Taking America down a few notches is just part of the plan.. People have forgotten what it's really about anyway!
The "Blessings of Liberty", will NOT be known by our posterity.. And we LET IT HAPPEN...
It is OUR failure!
-
myself will be homeless in about 4 to 5 months as my gf lost her job and I wont be able to make the apartment payments and that's how long our savings will last, my gf cant go back to work as she's got some really exciting news from her doctor last week after complaining about the same stuff for 2 years..
If I'm not mistaken, you work in some sort of mill correct? Is it steel, wood, paper, grist, pulp, etc, etc?
The reason I ask is that if I had a background in this area (I actually do) and I were about to go homeless with a women that's about to go on disability, I'd move the hell away from their in a heartbeat. The option is always open for someone with skill Semp, and the country is loaded with mills. You might enjoy the quiet and solitude of the rural setting.
-
I would not want to wish unemployment on anyone :old:
I have kept my expenses low for the past twenty years and paid cash for everything :old:
When I die they will have sore eyes looking for my money :old:
I have told the Wife to put be in the trash when its all over :old:
-
damn it i knew i should have stopped whining 10 years ago when i was homeless while making 50k a year. between my truck, child support, insurance and gas, i could only afford to get a motel room once every other week. I lived like like that for about 10 months taking showers in gas stations to save the 2 bucks that I would have spend at the truck stop.
Is there something you are leaving out?
Were you making payments on one of the most expensive, gas guzzling trucks ever built and did you have 10 kids to pay child support on?
Not doubting you, but it seems weird that you would have needed to be homeless making 50K ten years ago.
-
When DARPA or other blackbag insititutions finally funds the money to the right non-moraled scientists and engineers, they will have created both robotic soldiers to wage war and human cloning with instant adult human form to create a slave class, then what will the humans do?
That is the end game for technology innovation. Is that a utopian future or a dstopian future? Depends on what side of the gun barrell your at.
The elite class is involved a lot with human progress and <R>Evolution. They seem to rewrite what morality is in the name of know what is good for you. If what the narrarator says is correct and at the end of each decade, there are less jobs; I am very curious what it means to world population.
-
Is there something you are leaving out?
Were you making payments on one of the most expensive, gas guzzling trucks ever built and did you have 10 kids to pay child support on?
Not doubting you, but it seems weird that you would have needed to be homeless making 50K ten years ago.
not really, i was a window and door installer. meaning I had to buy my own materials and gas for the truck which was about 25k including my truck payment and insurance. I did use up a full tank of gas as I was driving around 200 miles a day. my child support was 700 bucks a month for 3 kids. also of course had to pay taxes and food. after that there wasnt much money left to for anything else. keep in mind that I made most of my money during the summer when I average about 3k every two weeks which is when I could afford an apartment while during the winter I made a lot less which is when I couldn't afford an apartment. during the winder I would just barely make enough to pay for the truck, materials, gas and child support. I used to joke to my friends that I was the only homeless person that had a cell phone which i needed for work.
one thing that really helped me was that my ex-wife's aunt worked for the child support office in los angeles so they were very helpful in forcing me to pay more in child support than I normally would have.
semp
-
Sometimes a change of scenery is a good thing semp... just sayin'.
-
not really, i was a window and door installer. meaning I had to buy my own materials and gas for the truck which was about 25k including my truck payment and insurance. I did use up a full tank of gas as I was driving around 200 miles a day. my child support was 700 bucks a month for 3 kids. also of course had to pay taxes and food. after that there wasnt much money left to for anything else. keep in mind that I made most of my money during the summer when I average about 3k every two weeks which is when I could afford an apartment while during the winter I made a lot less which is when I couldn't afford an apartment. during the winder I would just barely make enough to pay for the truck, materials, gas and child support. I used to joke to my friends that I was the only homeless person that had a cell phone which i needed for work.
one thing that really helped me was that my ex-wife's aunt worked for the child support office in los angeles so they were very helpful in forcing me to pay more in child support than I normally would have.
I had child support also so I know what you are talking about. I paid $684.00 a month support on a Cops salary in the 80 & early 90s. I worked side jobs like security and driving a truck on my days off. I worked a 3 days on 12 hr shifts and 4 days off at the PD. I worked a 7 day a weeks for 9 years without a single vacation day because I was cashing in my vacation days for the pay out. I finally left police work to drive hazardous materials for three times what I made as a Sergeant with 10 years on the job. I was still working a 70 hr week for the next 10 years. Maybe that is why I ended up with a quadruple by pass heart surgery at 47 and a stroke at 53. But I paid my support and all my living expenses to include three houses and yet another divorce along with Harley Davidson motor cycles and a third wife 17 years younger than me. I still think I had a great life because I was born in the USA and that afforded me financial opportunity to pay my life style even if it was destructive to me personally lol.
semp
-
not really, i was a window and door installer. meaning I had to buy my own materials and gas for the truck which was about 25k including my truck payment and insurance. I did use up a full tank of gas as I was driving around 200 miles a day. my child support was 700 bucks a month for 3 kids. also of course had to pay taxes and food. after that there wasnt much money left to for anything else. keep in mind that I made most of my money during the summer when I average about 3k every two weeks which is when I could afford an apartment while during the winter I made a lot less which is when I couldn't afford an apartment. during the winder I would just barely make enough to pay for the truck, materials, gas and child support. I used to joke to my friends that I was the only homeless person that had a cell phone which i needed for work.
one thing that really helped me was that my ex-wife's aunt worked for the child support office in los angeles so they were very helpful in forcing me to pay more in child support than I normally would have.
semp
So you didn't make 50k a year then. Once you deduct all your business expenses and taxes, that's what you make in the end.