Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: JimmyD3 on October 03, 2012, 11:10:24 AM
-
Ok all you hotshots out there, from a newbie what is the best Bomber Killer out there for Early War, Mid War and Late War? With the new Strat changes being able to intercept and Kill bombers is an essential skill now. I have tried several different aircraft but nothing really stands out as the best or at least I haven't been to successful yet. I know that some of it is my limited skills, some it the altitude, and some of it the ordnance used. While I fly mostly Mid War, it would be interesting to note the other two arenas as well. :salute
-
Best is relative to your own goals. For me, returning to base is always my objective when launching, so durability plays into my choice as much as performance and firepower. So I prefer an air cooled engine when attacking bombers.
Late War - I choose the Fw190A-8 as it offers a good blend of qualities mentioned above.
I don't fly allot of Early or Mid but would think the Bf110C, Fw190A-5, and Hurricane-2C would be good candidates.
-
Anything thats heavily armed will do nicely for Buff hunting, but I prefer the 110G with the additional 30mm cannon package. I favor the frontal attack if you can get into position for it.
-
What altitude and kind of bomber?
The Fw190A-8 is great at moderate altitudes against the regular B-17G, B-24J and Lancaster but has a lot more trouble with the higher altitude B-17Gs and is weak against perk bombers.
-
20K and under, one of the FW's -- A8 with the big guns for example.
Over 25K, Ta152 or M-Jug.
Angle of attack is of far greater importance than the bird I'm flying.
-
m
-
20K and under, one of the FW's -- A8 with the big guns for example.
Over 25K, Ta152 or M-Jug.
Angle of attack is of far greater importance than the bird I'm flying.
I prefer the radial M Jug. Ta152 is powered by an inline bomber engine susceptable to fatal engine damage.
That big Jug radial is nice to sit behind. Get an oil leak??? So what!
-
In the MW arena, the P-38J is an excellent choice as a bomber killer. Has the fire power and the ammo needed for the job, coupled with a pilot that knows how to properly engage bombers, the Lightning is a very potent bomber killer. After all, the Lightning was designed as an interceptor. The P-38G would also be a good choice for the EW arena for the same reasons.
ack-ack
-
moin
if you are on a long range bomber patrol to save the strats, the 410 is the best, klip to 30k and stay there you can kill every bomber in save distance withe 50mm.
only catching b29 could be a problem but mostly thay are below 28k and you can catch them too.
cu christian
-
I prefer the radial M Jug. Ta152 is powered by an inline bomber engine susceptable to fatal engine damage.
That big Jug radial is nice to sit behind. Get an oil leak??? So what!
And yet I was still able to kill more than 100 bombers last month in the Ta mostly without even getting hit. I think for the entire month I had only two radiator hits and one of those was 1.5 sectors from base on the deck and I still landed it. Your M jug is too slow once the WEP runs out and takes too long to recover once the engine is hot. The Ta engine recovers very quickly.
If any of these bombers manages to get to 35k or higher you might as well go home unless you have the fuel to escort them home and kill them when they try to land.
-
Altitude means everything.
The higher it gets the better the Ta152 comes in to play as a bomber killer.
The La7 does a great job at lower than 10k alts, after all that is what it was designed to do (intercept and destroy low alt bombers).
Oh, and do not discount the P38 either. The biggest downside there is that it presents a big target to shoot at.
-
Actually both the Jugs and even the P-51B is a better bomber killer all the way to 30k and above that the 38 falls off rapidly. If there is a reason to select the Jugs it would be to fight off escorts while also having the ability to knock down the heavies (the primary responsibility of a fighter). 98% of all pilots (probably more) in the game do not know how to attack bombers and usually end up dead after one kill so which airplane they choose wont make a difference.
-
Actually both the Jugs and even the P-51B is a better bomber killer all the way to 30k and above that the 38 falls off rapidly. If there is a reason to select the Jugs it would be to fight off escorts while also having the ability to knock down the heavies (the primary responsibility of a fighter). 98% of all pilots (probably more) in the game do not know how to attack bombers and usually end up dead after one kill so which airplane they choose wont make a difference.
Ok Chalenge in regards to the attack, what is the best technique? More data!!!!! :aok
-
I am still going through the films but the plan is to post a video of 100 kills against bombers at high alt. :aok
-
My preference is the P-47 but had quite a bit of success in the 110G2 with only the small gun package.
-
I usually climb a 110g with two rockets, two drop tanks, and 100% fuel over the city/strat complex while I am away from the keyboard.
I usually come back to find I am at 35,000 feet mushing along so I drop the tanks and get a slight descent going until it is going fast enough to not extend the slats.
Then I have 55 minutes of fuel and altitude with which I can run down most most every buff in aces high but I've reduced my attacks on b17s a lot lately and hope they have an escort I can go after instead of facing a billion guns shooting my wing off at D1400 after I broke off and dove away.
-
Jug N or TA 152 both very reliable both very fast at high alt above 30k wep is not needed to catch a b29 in the jug N, Ta with its large wings and great fuel capacity coupled with the 2 20mms and 1 30mm is a great buff killer
-
FYI, this is what players have been using this year so far to kill the ultimate high altitude bomber, the B-29:
(http://i1145.photobucket.com/albums/o507/Snaildude/2012_zps55e30ea7.jpg)
-
moin
notice the 410 comes reight behind the 262 :old:
thats why i love this bird :)
cu christian
-
moin
notice the 410 comes reight behind the 262 :old:
thats why i love this bird :)
cu christian
The 50mm is certainly a sweet anti-bomber gun, no doubt. Last tour I had 3 B29 kills using the 50mm, one hit was all it took to separate the plane in to 2 huge pieces. :aok The trick is though is to be at that altitude when the bombers arrive because in a Me410 you certainly are not going to climb up and intercept them. It does not climb well or have the speed to do much but merge in behind for a long drawn out chase (which fits the 50mm just fine).
-
Really depends on the situation, but as a rule of thumb, personally I would say:
Low-alt (say, under 5-7k), its probably the 110G, due to pure firepower. But the Mossie and 190A-8 give it a lot of competition.
Low-mid altitude band, I would have to go with the 190A-8 with 4x 20mm's.
High-mid altitude band, its the K4.
And at high altitude, its the Ta-152.
-
I want one of them 30k wirbels. :P
-
Best B29 killer is another B29
http://www.mediafire.com/?ey5i7xu83sbvb8e
-
Jug N or TA 152 both very reliable both very fast at high alt above 30k wep is not needed to catch a b29 in the jug N, Ta with its large wings and great fuel capacity coupled with the 2 20mms and 1 30mm is a great buff killer
I dont know how you know that since you die in the N more than you kill with it. At least last month. And with the 152 somehow I doubt you were very high either having died 3/4 of the time. Hardly a stellar performance!
-
Really depends on the situation, but as a rule of thumb, personally I would say:
Low-alt (say, under 5-7k), its probably the 110G, due to pure firepower. But the Mossie and 190A-8 give it a lot of competition.
Low-mid altitude band, I would have to go with the 190A-8 with 4x 20mm's.
High-mid altitude band, its the K4.
And at high altitude, its the Ta-152.
I disagree...at low alt, it's definitely mountains....they one pass all formations :D
-
I disagree...at low alt, it's definitely mountains....they one pass all formations :D
I'm fairly certian that for KTD, mountians take second place. Trees probably kill the most aircraft.
-
nm
-
by no means an expert. my old fav ride was the a8, but climbed up slow.
I like the g14, plenty of cannons, climbs to 20k on wep, has long legs and is a small target.
-
I disagree...at low alt, it's definitely mountains....they one pass all formations :D
I was goona say this but figured I'fd let the thread be serious for a bit longer. :lol
-
That depends on whether you plan to climb up and chase fleeing bombers, or if you're prepared to take off, climb in advance, and *then* hunt the bombers down.
Patrol:
It's a toss-up between the 190-A8 with 2x30mm and the P-47N. They both have a great balance of firepower, performance, and range. Any good player can kill bombers in any aircraft he knows well. If that player spent his time in those two aircraft he would get slightly more bomber kills. Climb to 20k in each and you have ample range and enough performance to chase down any of the light heavies, moreso in the P-47N. If they're below you, smile, if they're at 25K just climb a bit. The 190-A8's firepower is enough to down a bomber with one quick pass, e.g. this Lancaster, which is in trouble:
(http://imageshack.us/a/img543/9499/190vslanc.jpg)
You don't have to be a particularly good shot; just dive down on them, hammer them, gently pull out and do a corkscrew around them. Your first kill is free, your second kill is only slightly harder. From that point on you'll be low on energy but you'll only be fighting one bomber. Take your time. The two aircraft have a mixture of strengths and weaknesses. If you get hit in the 190-A8 you'll probably end up with the oil out rather than a main tank leak or a pilot wound; in the P-47N you'll get the main tank shot out. In both cases you have at least a chance of gliding home. The P-47N is much stronger against enemy fighters but the guns are such that you have to aim, if only for a split-second.
All the other choices are generally suboptimal. The 109K4 is a very close third, the only limitation is the firepower, which is good but not great. The 110G2 has less firepower than the 190-A8 in its stock form, and doesn't perform as well. In particular it's rubbish in high-speed dives. It's a big target and everybody wants to kill you. The extra gun package cuts your performance and doesn't really add to your killing power; you can only kill the bomber so much before more bullets are a waste. If you're up against a flight of two hundred unescorted B-17s and the gunners are away from the keyboard, go for it. Ditto the 410, which if anything seems even worse in a dive, and more fragile. The Mosquito has a tremendous gun package but in my experience you get lots of pilot wounds; the Typhoon also has great guns but has a glass radiator and very short range. The N1K2 has the firepower but doesn't perform as well as the 190-A8. Everything else either has less firepower or less performance or less range. The G14 with gondolas has almost the firepower of the 190-A8, but on a personal level I prefer the 190's roll rate and its handling in a dive.
The Ta-152 is an odd cross between the 190-A8 (similar firepower) and the P-47N (range, performance at high altitude), and one of those big fat disabled women who rides around in an electric wheelchair. In my experience the A8's extra 30mm and machine guns ensure a one-pass kill, with the Ta-152 it's not quite as assured, and the longer you spend on the attack the harder it gets.
I'm not counting the 262, which is of course superb against bombers if you can hit them without running into them.
Chase:
BF-109K4, easy. Terrific rate of climb, excellent performance, sufficient firepower, endurance, magic WEP. In my experience the single 30mm does enough damage that if you land hits but don't manage to finish the bomber off, then if somebody else shoots them down you get the kill, because you filled the bomber with warm human jam.
On a tangent, and I'm not a mathematician, but my hunch is that if the bombers are coming straight towards the base at 20k, 270mph+, and you spot them on the edge of the radar circle, then only the Me 163 has a hope of climbing to shoot them down before they drop their bombs. I imagine you could draw a chart which shows the relative merits of altitude and speed - I suspect that a formation of Bostons heading for the target at 12k, 325mph, would be just as safe from interception as a formation of B-17s coming in at 20k, 280mph, for example. In any case you're vastly more likely to be chasing after bombers that have already attacked, in which case I've always wondered why more bomber pilots don't simply ditch; it lets you double your sortie rate (you don't have to fly back) and really angers the defenders.
-
Ashley, excellent write up, very informative. I also like the picture. Thanks for taking the time to share your knowledge with a rookie! :salute
-
Um, be sure you fellows differentiate between interceptor and killer. If your goal is to get to 30k and intercept B29's at 28k and/or getting to 20k and intercepting B17's, then your goal is different then if you're planning on hunting bombers while performing a CAP near a probable target.
If you have the time, and your patrolling for bombers in the 15-23k rqange, then NOTHING beats the Me410 when it comes to killing bombers. But, you must *be there* when the bombers arrive or else leave the Me410 in the hanger because it does not climb well, it does not have speed worth mentioning, and it does not handle well either. Other very good bomber killers to make honorable mention are ... ... ... anything with four 20mm cannons, dual (or quad) 30mm, or a mix of the 2. :aok
-
I dont know how you know that since you die in the N more than you kill with it. At least last month. And with the 152 somehow I doubt you were very high either having died 3/4 of the time. Hardly a stellar performance!
who cares I've been playing AH2 for 5 years now I'm pretty sure I'm not the best pilot in the game but I will give you a run for your money there chalenge anytime anywhere
-
The 110G2 has less firepower than the 190-A8 in its stock form, and doesn't perform as well.
stock, its actually VERY close, losing by only the 2 13mm's, but picking up FAR more 30mm ammunition. And when both planes are clean and light, the 110 is by far the better-armed of the two.
In particular it's rubbish in high-speed dives. It's a big target and everybody wants to kill you.
Agreed. The extra gun package cuts your performance and doesn't really add to your killing power; you can only kill the bomber so much before more bullets are a waste
It doesn't significantly cut preformance, like gondies on the 109's (and with your starting point so low, who cares anway? Its still fast enough to chase bombers).
So if the 2 extra 20mm's are unneeded, why is firepower a concern on the other aircraft?
Ditto the 410, which if anything seems even worse in a dive, and more fragile.
Of course, with the BK 5, you can really just sit out beyond range of retaliation. And I don't think its as fragile. It seems generally pretty sturdy, and is at least the equal of the 110 in a dive.
The Mosquito has a tremendous gun package but in my experience you get lots of pilot wounds; the Typhoon also has great guns but has a glass radiator and very short range. The N1K2 has the firepower but doesn't perform as well as the 190-A8. Everything else either has less firepower or less performance or less range. The G14 with gondolas has almost the firepower of the 190-A8, but on a personal level I prefer the 190's roll rate and its handling in a dive.
What happened to that bit about excessive firepower? And the 109's with gondies have more firepower than a P-47, or anything else that isn't lugging around 4 20mm's or more
The Ta-152 is an odd cross between the 190-A8 (similar firepower) and the P-47N (range, performance at high altitude), and one of those big fat disabled women who rides around in an electric wheelchair. In my experience the A8's extra 30mm and machine guns ensure a one-pass kill, with the Ta-152 it's not quite as assured, and the longer you spend on the attack the harder it gets.
The MG's do less than a tenth the damage of the 30mm. They are negligible in the A8's killing power.
Chase:
BF-109K4, easy. Terrific rate of climb, excellent performance, sufficient firepower, endurance, magic WEP. In my experience the single 30mm does enough damage that if you land hits but don't manage to finish the bomber off, then if somebody else shoots them down you get the kill, because you filled the bomber with warm human jam.
The real stength of the K4 is its climb and acceleration. After climbing (which is among the shortest trips to 20k in the game), you accelerate comparatively quickly to combat speeds.
On a tangent, and I'm not a mathematician, but my hunch is that if the bombers are coming straight towards the base at 20k, 270mph+, and you spot them on the edge of the radar circle, then only the Me 163 has a hope of climbing to shoot them down before they drop their bombs.
Pretty much. IIRC, you'll arrive at alt, and be about 1/2 way accelerated when they drop.
I imagine you could draw a chart which shows the relative merits of altitude and speed - I suspect that a formation of Bostons heading for the target at 12k, 325mph, would be just as safe from interception as a formation of B-17s coming in at 20k, 280mph, for example.
Maybe. The K4 can make 10k in only a little over 2 minutes IIRC. Since bostons have no belly guns, a low-6 attack is tied for the safest approach, and its effective (its a boston, not the most heavily armored thing US factories ever produced).
In any case you're vastly more likely to be chasing after bombers that have already attacked, in which case I've always wondered why more bomber pilots don't simply ditch; it lets you double your sortie rate (you don't have to fly back) and really angers the defenders.
Because combat is the entire point of the game. If you just want to make milkruns, you might as well fly offline; you'll see just as much actual combat there as you would in the MA's.
As to sortie rate, and pissing off defenders, those two points are canceled out by lowered perk earnings and score (the reasoning behind doubling the sortie count), is against the spirit of the game, and results in a sudden case of sweetheart-bag syndrome.
-
I usually take a TA-152 with drop tank to get to altitude then cruse at 30K to 35K in area's not covered by radar looking for buffs that are trying to avoid radar. But my favorite is the Bf-110G2. Altitude is 28K-32K. Same stradegy. Most buffs not near their target or at lower altitudes do not even see you. I spot most outside of Icon range. It allows me to dive down from a high six for my first pass without any return fire. After my first pass I pull up then flip on my back and start my next pass from directly above or high six approach. Most of my attacks are from an extreme altitude advantage of 5 to 10K. If the opportunity presents its self I like the head on from 12 hight or from about 4 to 8 O'clock level. The later hides your approach from the lead aircraft and and limits his ability to engage you. If anyone has suggestions or can give me a better plan let me know. I am always open to learning new techniques.
-
who cares I've been playing AH2 for 5 years now I'm pretty sure I'm not the best pilot in the game but I will give you a run for your money there chalenge anytime anywhere
Ha!
-
Ha!
don't make me come over there :mad:
-
Good-110 w/Rkts
better-Ta-152 (high alt on B-29's best)
Best all around- p-47m
-
Good-110 w/Rkts
better-Ta-152 (high alt on B-29's best)
Best all around- p-47m
moin
bevor im going to use the 110 with its rockets i will use the 410 with its rockets. the aiming of the 410 rockets is much better as at the 110. try it.
cu christian
-
don't make me come over there :mad:
Bring it! :neener:
-
Depends on the altitude of the target bombers.
Up to 25K:
FW-190A-8
with 2 x 13mm MG-131, 2 x 20mm MK-151/20, and 2 x 30mm MK-108
Over 25K:
Ta-152
with 2 x 20mm MK-151/20 and 1 x 30mm MK-108
-
Bring it! :neener:
OK. I'll meet you in the DA any weekend.
-
OK. I'll meet you in the DA any weekend.
Just a whine about not being able to kill me in the LW. Poor baby!
-
OK. I'll meet you in the DA any weekend.
now come on...you knew the answer to that way before you typed it :rofl
ill DA when ever you want to get some intense fightin in :salute
-
M Jug at 30K to 33K.....472 mph. Radials breathe better at alt then inlines. Super charger the key.
Don't need the wep either. 50s have greater range also.
-
Turbocharger, actually. And it starts dying off about 29-30k. By the time you're 30-33k you're losing power. Still, the jugs are some of the better-handling planes at that alt.
As for folks saying the 110G stock has less firepower than a 190A8, this is just wrong. All is more than made up for by ungodly amounts of 30mm. Even if it ONLY had the 30mm, nothing else, it would still have several times the firepower of the A8 with 30mms. It will be able to sustain fire longer, kill more, do more damage with any snapshot. Think of it as a slower 262 or 163. The K4 has the same gun, the A8 has the same gun, but their firing time is very short at 65 and 55 rds per gun. Ta152 is better at 90 rpg. The 110 takes the cake amongs all props for mk108 ammo loadout.
The problem is the performance. It's often too slow and has too low a ceiling to get up to the stubborn bombers. If you get anything close to your alt or even below, it is the best. You also can limp home on 1 engine if severely wounded.
The 410 might edge that out if it could mount the historically accurate MG151 gunpod externally. If it had 8x 20mms, it would be a contender. With the BK5 it definitely outshoots the 30mm, but aiming and position are difficult and it's only slightly better than the WGRs at the sacrifice of better gun packs. You run out with the BK5 and you're stuck with 2x20mm. Boucou ammo for them, but only 2 of them. Not so good for fleeting snapshots.
Just some additional food for though.
-
Gimmie a Temptest all day long.Long as they are 25k or less that is.Above that id take a Spite14 or Ta152.
-
The Bf 110 G-2 with standard armament had not a single MK 108 - 4x MG 17 + 2x MG 151. What you are talking about is the Bf 110 G-2/R3.
-
Turbo-supercharger actually. :)
-
The Bf 110 G-2 with standard armament had not a single MK 108 - 4x MG 17 + 2x MG 151. What you are talking about is the Bf 110 G-2/R3.
It was standard after a certain point. Same as a G-14 came standard with either a 20mm or a 30mm hub gun. The different designations don't change that fact. Yes, we do have the late-era 110G with the 30mms, and that doesn't change the fact that the STANDARD aces high loadout comes with 2x 30mm and a butt-load of ammo for both.
-
Gimmie a Temptest all day long.Long as they are 25k or less that is.Above that id take a Spite14 or Ta152.
Myself and several squaddies have found tempests to be worst bomber hunters ever. The wide stance of the hipanos makes them hard to get a single killing snapshot blow, meanwhile you are instantly damaged on your first ping from the bomber gunners. Often oil, engine, or pilot are knocked out immediately. I have experienced it many times and a couple others have too. One of my squaddies just recently was irate about it, having been in a tempest and decided to attack some bombers. He swore off ever using it for that purpose again.
Overall on paper it looks good, but in practice it's not nearly as effective as other planes. Not to mention the freakishly short range and the need to WEP to catch bombers most times. It can't keep up the chase for very long.
-
Up to about 23k, the Tempest is a good, albeit expensive buff killer. Not on paper, but in practice. The only real weakness is the radiator, but that trait it does share with a couple of other planes, most notably the Ta 152H.
It's very fast (yes, even without WEP), the cannons are hard hitting and rapid firing, and it has a nice ammo loadout.
If you can't catch and kill bombers in the Tempest, somethign is really wrong with your tactics.
Addendum:
Just looked it up: I have a better K/D rate in the Tempest against formation bombers than in any other plane. And with more than 1800 kills, it's not a result of only a handfull of sorties...
-
It was standard after a certain point. Same as a G-14 came standard with either a 20mm or a 30mm hub gun. The different designations don't change that fact. Yes, we do have the late-era 110G with the 30mms, and that doesn't change the fact that the STANDARD aces high loadout comes with 2x 30mm and a butt-load of ammo for both.
It was never factory produced. Only field conversion kit. Factory armament on the G-2 was always 2x MG151 and 4x MG17, and it was the preferred armament for Jabo since it was more useful for strafing. There was also a 4x MG151 kit...
-
Just a whine about not being able to kill me in the LW. Poor baby!
I've never even fought you in MA. What a loser as always.
Ready to DA little girl?
now come on...you knew the answer to that way before you typed it :rofl
ill DA when ever you want to get some intense fightin in :salute
I haven't been playing much and when I have I just haven't been interested but I'll look for you when I'm on. Maybe try a few dissimilar match-ups.
-
I've never even fought you in MA. What a loser as always.
Ready to DA little girl?
I haven't been playing much and when I have I just haven't been interested but I'll look for you when I'm on. Maybe try a few dissimilar match-ups.
sounds good :salute
-
Myself and several squaddies have found tempests to be worst bomber hunters ever. The wide stance of the hipanos makes them hard to get a single killing snapshot blow, meanwhile you are instantly damaged on your first ping from the bomber gunners. Often oil, engine, or pilot are knocked out immediately. I have experienced it many times and a couple others have too. One of my squaddies just recently was irate about it, having been in a tempest and decided to attack some bombers. He swore off ever using it for that purpose again.
Overall on paper it looks good, but in practice it's not nearly as effective as other planes. Not to mention the freakishly short range and the need to WEP to catch bombers most times. It can't keep up the chase for very long.
Are we playing the same game?You know you can carry drop tanks,gives it about 45min of flight time at full throttle.
-
Hey Snailman, great numbers though it would be interesting to see who the sticks are flying those birds. As we all know the 262 is not an easy bird to fight and it has a much higher k/d then the 163. This tells me many nobs up in the 163 and like Pickett's Charge make a good go at it, though the 262s reflect pilot skill.
I would suggest two birds for buff killing.
Below 20k the Fw-190A5. Above 20k the Ta-152.
The logic on the A5 is simple. I do not see any real difference between the A5 and the A8 but the 30mm guns. The problem with those guns is the typical tater problems. The A5 with the 4x20mm has all the firepower needed to make great high angle of attacks on buffs and kill one per pass. It climbs rather well, typical excellent 190 control at high speeds and with the radial has little worry for the dreaded radiator shot. Bonus coverage, since it is an early war plane it is one heck of a 'perk farmer.' I suppose another bonus is the realism of hitting a flight of B-24s, B-17s or Lancs with an Axis bird. I rarely see B-29s so not much to speak of with that.
I do agree with a couple posts. An attack flown properly is enough to kill any buff with almost any bird. Now getting a Brew to 25k for a buff hunting mission is a real trick.
Boo
-
I do not see any real difference between the A5 and the A8 but the 30mm guns. The problem with those guns is the typical tater problems. The A5 with the 4x20mm has all the firepower needed to make great high angle of attacks on buffs and kill one per pass.
Well, I always enjoy the 190A5 and will definitely sing its praises when appropriate. I have also taken out 3x B-24s with a yak9u's single 20mm cannon, so I understand that you don't need the heaviest firepower to do it. However, those 30mms on the A8 make all the difference. They're not a problem at all. They're a massive advantage. Even with 4x20mm, you can pound some bombers mercilessly with 20mms and not have them go down. So, yes.... 190A5s are perfectly capable of killing bombers, but compared to an A8 they are relative popguns
:rofl
So, I would conclude that while it is fun to hunt in an A5, it shouldn't be considered one of "the best" to hunt with.
-
Yeah, I agree with Krusty.
And there is no "tater problem". Ever. Its not a problem, but the characteristics of a tool to be used by the pilot.
The 30mm offers hitting power (almost guaratneed one-hit-kills on fighters) at the expense of ease of shooting, and ammunition load.
The 20mm offers ease of shooting, and are inbetween .50's and the 30mm for ease of use, and ammo.
The .50's offer ease of use, and large ammunition loads, at the cost of hitting power (of each individual round).
-
Shooting taters is something few have mastered. For most it remains 'spray and pray,' agree with firepower of it. For a guppe of experten the 30mm is ideal. For most it is not, though the question was not which buff killer is suitable for most sticks.
Boo
-
moin
bevor im going to use the 110 with its rockets i will use the 410 with its rockets. the aiming of the 410 rockets is much better as at the 110. try it.
cu christian
I hate flying that thing. I wish it was a better bird, but it isn't. Too heavy, climbs too slow with enough fuel to get up with high bombers & is a pig at high alt. :old: IMO :salute
-
Turbocharger, actually. And it starts dying off about 29-30k. By the time you're 30-33k you're losing power. Still, the jugs are some of the better-handling planes at that alt.
As for folks saying the 110G stock has less firepower than a 190A8, this is just wrong. All is more than made up for by ungodly amounts of 30mm. Even if it ONLY had the 30mm, nothing else, it would still have several times the firepower of the A8 with 30mms. It will be able to sustain fire longer, kill more, do more damage with any snapshot. Think of it as a slower 262 or 163. The K4 has the same gun, the A8 has the same gun, but their firing time is very short at 65 and 55 rds per gun. Ta152 is better at 90 rpg. The 110 takes the cake amongs all props for mk108 ammo loadout.
The problem is the performance. It's often too slow and has too low a ceiling to get up to the stubborn bombers. If you get anything close to your alt or even below, it is the best. You also can limp home on 1 engine if severely wounded.
The 410 might edge that out if it could mount the historically accurate MG151 gunpod externally. If it had 8x 20mms, it would be a contender. With the BK5 it definitely outshoots the 30mm, but aiming and position are difficult and it's only slightly better than the WGRs at the sacrifice of better gun packs. You run out with the BK5 and you're stuck with 2x20mm. Boucou ammo for them, but only 2 of them. Not so good for fleeting snapshots.
Just some additional food for though.
I agree with all of this, but before I quit flying the 410 I made a kill on bombers with that big gun...Talk about COOL! one round, Kablewie! it really jazzed me. my subsequent attempts were flawed, so I assumed the first try was beginners luck. :salute
-
It was never factory produced. Only field conversion kit. Factory armament on the G-2 was always 2x MG151 and 4x MG17, and it was the preferred armament for Jabo since it was more useful for strafing. There was also a 4x MG151 kit...
Ummm.... how is that relevent? We don't have the option in Aces High, and stock AH armament is 2 20mms and 2 30mm's.
Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but if we're only supposed to stick to planes we have in the game, wouldn't it make sense to only talk about the planes we have within the context of what amaments we have available for use in Aces High?
Cause if you wanna go outside of Aces High, I'm fairly certian FlaK was the best bomber killer.
-
You'd be wrong.
The 110 will be updated eventually and I guess/hope it will get a lot more loadout options.
Btw. I was responding to Krusty, who wasn't limiting his comment to the in-game 110.
-
Quite right. I didn't want to reply and get off on a tangent. Yes, the 7mm loadout was used, but only insomuch as it's all they had. They were wholly ineffective (except in rare cases where they're shooting unprotected people on the ground, strafing troops, etc). They were more often than not REMOVED from the airframe, flying with only the 2x20mm. That's why they had the gunpods, because it couldn't put out enough firepower. As soon as the Mk108s were ready, rutsatz or not, it was pretty much the standard for any 110G taking off for air to air action.
-
I think little more than 400 MK 108 field conversion kits were made. As a daylight bomber destroyer the 110 had a short career, and night-fighter units preferred the MG151 kit since the 151 could be fitted with flash hiders.
-
For most average cartoon pilot's I think The FW190A8 is the best plane ,since its survivability is much higher than 110s and 410s, and can take some punishment without immediately have to break off attacks when hit, you can also out dive/roll many escorts.
I prefer the 4*20mm 2*13mm because I for the most part use high 1-3 o'clock attacks, and shoot at distance with high closure rate, minimizing chance of collisions (unless remaining drones warp when one is down).
I aim at cockpit, but since I set convergence to 450 , shooting at wing-tips also do he trick.
How the 410 still is so fragile is beyond me though.
-
I am still going through the films but the plan is to post a video of 100 kills against bombers at high alt. :aok
Please :rock
-
It took 21 days just to separate out the kill segments. :devil
-
I never really liked hunting buffs, especially in a Ta-152, something just feels off on that plane, to me it just seems so unstable, before I used to enjoy flying at 25+ in a P38J, quite a nice bird up there doing 400mph.
-
The BF-110 is an excellent buff killer. 4x20cal, 2x30cal plus it takes punishment. I once attacked B-17's on a dead six run at 36K taking over 100 hits. 3 B-17's died. I landed. You have to be in position as the 110's slow but if you are it's a killer. For that reason the 190A-8's a better choice but the 110 can't be ignored.
I agree the Ta-152's not great. It's the glass radiator.
-
The BF-110 is an excellent buff killer. 4x20MM, 2x30MM plus it takes punishment. I once attacked B-17's on a dead six run at 36K taking over 100 hits. 3 B-17's died. I landed. You have to be in position as the 110's slow but if you are it's a killer. For that reason the 190A-8's a better choice but the 110 can't be ignored.
I agree the Ta-152's not great. It's the glass radiator.
20cal would be smaller than a .22 rimfire, 30cal would be '06/30-30 size we know what you meant...110 slows way down up high & is very poor in maneuverability...feels very unstable IMO
-
20cal would be smaller than a .22 rimfire, 30cal would be '06/30-30 size we know what you meant...110 slows way down up high & is very poor in maneuverability...feels very unstable IMO
Yeah, it was late and I was tired and had had a few.
-
109G14 with the gondolas and the 30mm set at 450 is an excellent choice. It has the power to quickly gain altitude, and has decent top speed. It provides a fairly small target as well, and is somewhat managable against escort fighters. With the climbrate it can get back into position for another attack reasonably quickly, something that most other fighters lack. What it doesnt do well is extreme speeds, and very very high altitudes, but very few raids are conducted so high up that it's truly out of its element.
-
I don't know. The G-14 isn't great up high. It peaks out for speed at only a bit over 400mph at only 17,000ft or so.
Personally, I don't feel like the 20mm's are enough of a boost in firepower to justify the loss in performance vs the K4.
I mean for absolute top speed, the K4 on military power is faster than the G-14 is on WEP. The G-14's peak preformance on WEP is only slightly superior to that of the K4 on military power at the same altitude.
for climb rate, the K14 is superior exept for a small altitude band between about 4k and 7-8k, after which the G-14 steadily loses ground. However the G-14 remains close to the K4 upto about 20,00ft At 25,000ft.
-
2 20mm's is a whole lot of added firepower. And although you are correct that the K4 performance is better, Against bombers I would rather take the G14. The extra speed doesnt matter much against bombers, You face compression with either plane if you take it in too fast. I'm competent aiming a 30mm, but I'm a whole lot better with the 20mms, this allows me to use all guns at once, or a combination which allows me to better conserve ammo and deliver a more lethal blow, and still have ammo to continue the fight. Fighting bombers in the G14 gives me enough speed, climb rate and firepower to dictate how I want to attack at all but the most extreme altitudes. The performance gain against bombers that a K4 gives me is not worth losing two extra cannons. z
-
Sorry but the 109 is not the plane to take to 30k or more. The K4 is the only one with enough speed to be useful that high and it does not have the knock down power unless you fly with a wingman. The much loved Hog is pretty useless also as well as the P-51. If you are flying to 27k and above to attack escorted bombers then even the Jugs are not enough. A jug can get some random hits or well aimed hits and either wound a pilot or set a bomber on fire but even eight .50s at that alt are difficult for most pilots to bring to bear and knock a bomber down in one pass. The one thing the Jug has going for it is that it has speed and it can fight at altitude but it takes experience to do it well.
Ths Spit 14 has the ability to climb and at altitude it can kill just about any fighter even against a better pilot. Yes its that good. The problem is it is fragile. There will be argument over that point but thats just the way it is. A Jug, a Ta152, or even a 38 can take repeated hits on headon attacks against a bomber and they wont fall apart. A Spit 14 will break.
The Ta152 on the other hand has speed and guns. It can climb with the best of them. At altitude the WEP can recover in as little as 30 seconds. It can kill any bomber in one pass.
Any one of these planes are useless without the experience of flying them. I hear people all the time complain about flying to altitude and losing their radiator or getting wounded or losing a wing and so on. Yes that will happen. Keep flying and you will get it.
Any one of the bombers in this game can be very tricky to attack above 32k. At 35k the B29 is so fast it will take time and more than one attacker to overwhelm them. Our bomber pilots online are getting trickier every day. They do things that will surprise you. Just be patient and attack them properly and you will go home and they will not.
-
2 20mm's is a whole lot of added firepower. And although you are correct that the K4 performance is better, Against bombers I would rather take the G14. The extra speed doesnt matter much against bombers, You face compression with either plane if you take it in too fast. I'm competent aiming a 30mm, but I'm a whole lot better with the 20mms, this allows me to use all guns at once, or a combination which allows me to better conserve ammo and deliver a more lethal blow, and still have ammo to continue the fight. Fighting bombers in the G14 gives me enough speed, climb rate and firepower to dictate how I want to attack at all but the most extreme altitudes. The performance gain against bombers that a K4 gives me is not worth losing two extra cannons. z
The speed isn't really used when engaging the bombers, but the combination of greater top speed, better climb, and better acceleration means you hit the bombers sooner, that you can make more passes in the same ammount of time, and that enemy fighters will have a harder time engaging you.
Also note that those numbers for the G-14 are for a clean, light G-14, with no gunpods, DT's, and minimum fuel. If you're loaded up for bombers, quite possibly you'll be down to around 380 at alt, and will be taking a fairly severe hit in climb rate.
Now, the same applys for the K4 as well, although to a lesser extent (since it has less drag than the G-14 to start with, you can't pack on gondolas, and it has more hp to overcome the drag), but the K4 is also starting from a possition of better (significanlty better) preformance, and so can take the hit better than the G-14.
Personally, I feel the 20mm's are rather superflous, since they do less than 1/10th the damage of the 30mm, and even a few well-placed hits will knock down a bomber. Of course, I'm also comfortable with the 30mm against fighters too, so the aiming isn't as big of an issue for me.
And thats also just my own personal preference, too; I also enjoy mixing it up in the 110, so what the hell do I know about whats tacticaly sound :D?
-
Not sure where you get 1/10th from. 3x 20mm rounds are about as powerful as 1x 30mm, last I recall. And you have a lot more ammo with them. Not to mention you're at least doubling your potential firepower with them. When attacking bombers, every bit helps. Even 7mms on earlier 109/190 models. Every bit can only help.
Remember we're not talking dogfighting, escorting, etc... just bomber hunting.
-
Hes talking about the 30mm + 2 20mm's.
And as for the damage, I was thinking of the .50 cal, which has a damage value of ~1, as opposed to ~11 for the 30mm.
Total damage capacity probably favors the G-14, but it seems most are much less efficient with the 20mm's, than the 30mm.
If I had to guess, its probably people holding down the trigger till they see something happen with the 20mm's, as opposed to firing a short burst with the 30mm's.
The other possibility might be the fact that most tend to fire the 30mm's at very close range, and so have a short firing window in which to hold down the trigger.
And hunting kind of implys that you're already at altitude, which largely negates the 109s' advantage of climb rate.
Now intercepting... thats another matter entirely.
-
climb rate also means acceleration, which also means you can make more than 1 pass, even if you're already at alt. You need to reposition.
Personal accuracy with the 30mm is skewed because you only get 60-odd rounds. You're going to wait or you're going to rtb empty. That doesn't mean the 20mms are any worse. I've flown a 109f for many years and generally average about 20 rounds fired per kill with my single 20mm gun. I've taken out 3x B-24s with a yak9u's single 20mm with 120 rds total, and had some left over! I've taken out 3x B-17s in a 109E and had 24 rounds left over (out of 120 total). If you're sloppy with the 20mm you'll be sloppy with the 30mm. All other things being equal you can open fire further out, more consistently and land more hits with a 20mm. You can land a solid burst of 20-40 rounds whereas a 30mm the same run might net you 2 hits.
So, personal aiming and skills aside, assume that's all equal. The 20mm are a good gun for bombers. Generally if you have more than 2 that's better, but 2 will do.
-
As long as I don't have to go to far above 20,000ft I have found the Mosquito Mk VI to be perfectly serviceable as a bomber killer even though it lacks 30mm cannons.
-
On the surface, yes. However every time I've ever done it 1 pass nets me an instant pilot wound or death. I've never made it out of an attack run on bombers when in a mossie. It's a major drawback for me.
-
It used to be that way several years ago, but after they adjusted its damage model I haven't had much of an issue with it.
I will admit I greatly favor slashing attacks rather than head on or straight up the six attacks.
-
Personal skill should under no circumstances be ignored in this thread, Krusty.
Personal skill dictates how efficiently and effectively you can use each weapon, or even just attack bombers in general.
I, personally, can use the 30mm. If I can kill a bomber with 4 30mm rounds, and get 4+ 30mm hits per pass, then I have no need to use the 20mm, and sacrafice performance to do so.
Therefore, the K4 is a better bomber hunter and interceptor, for me, than the G-14. Why? Because I don't need 20mm's for hunting bombers.
In addition, you admit that climb and acceleration aid in repositioning, and making another pass. The K4 beats the G-14 in that regard. Quite soundly, above 20k.
K4 has ALL advantages over the G-14, aside from firepower, which is still far more than adequate on the K.
Also, your argument assumes that people will think, reason, and act the same when packing 30mm's as opposed to 20mm's, which is false. People will be aware that they only have 65 rounds, and so will be more conservative with their ammunition.
If people are wastefull with the 20mm's, they won't nessicarily be wastefull with the 30mm, because that 65 displayed on the ammo counter makes them feel like they have little to work with, and so need to be very carefull (not really the case).
And conversely, if you are carefull with the 30mm, you won't nessicarily be carefull with 20mm's, or with .50's.
And I've taken out a bomber with the 109K's 13mm's before. Qartering head on pass, from about ~2 o'clock, holding the 30mm's for a bit closer range (was at D800). I fire the 13mm's, and they go right into the cocpit.
You can kill bombers with .30's, and still have ammunition left over. You can also do so with the 20mm, or the 30mm. Hell, you can do it with the 50mm or the 75mm. Nobody's arguing that. And I don't think anyone is saying that 20mm's are inherently more efficient.
However, I AM saying that PILOTS will tend be more efficient with the 30mm, because they feel they have to count every round.
-
As long as I don't have to go to far above 20,000ft I have found the Mosquito Mk VI to be perfectly serviceable as a bomber killer even though it lacks 30mm cannons.
I have done the same to B29s at 25k I was at 30k when I spotted them on there RTB in my mossie I love the firepower of the Mossie I have had some success with when I'm already at alt or the bombers happen to be at 15k or lower
the Mosquito is an awsome bomber killer if used right and no escorts are around to ruin your fun :mad:
-
I have done the same to B29s at 25k I was at 30k when I spotted them on there RTB in my mossie I love the firepower of the Mossie I have had some success with when I'm already at alt or the bombers happen to be at 15k or lower
the Mosquito is an awsome bomber killer if used right and no escorts are around to ruin your fun :mad:
As long as the bombers aren't much above 25k it does ok as an interceptor too because its climb rate is middling and it has lots of fuel endurance. I have done long, interception flights in it taking advantage of its fuel endurance.
I do wish we had the Mosquito Mk 30 though. High blown engines would be very nice.
-
I have been away for over a year now so I am not sure how the 410 has fared as a bomber killer, but I had settled into the Mossy when it came to buff hunting. The wooden frame tends to allow you to take a lot of rounds and the 4 20mm in my honest opinion allows you to saw the wings off a buff relatively quickly. But, it comes down to your approach I think more than anything and as has been mentioned in other posts, a frontal attack on buffs is the prefered method because A)It minimizes the the amount of guns the Bombers can bring to bear and B) you have a very good chance of hitting the vital parts of the plane such as the cockpit and front of the engines
-
To which I will add. . . hit the drones first. If you manage to knock out one engine on a B29 you will slow the entire formation down because that one plane will not be able to keep up and no one wants to lose even one B29.