Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: RotBaron on November 24, 2012, 11:47:54 PM
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Soda's write up of the Fw190 A-5, and A-8 says to burn the AFT tank FIRST in order to achieve maximum maneuverability. However, I was flying with at least three guys last night that said NO WAY, you burn the forward tank FIRST, ALWAYS, and that is because it is a nose heavy plane. I don't know what to think now, I know AH must really trust these write-ups of their in game planes to have them out there on the web, and at such mercy of every with varying degrees of expertise on the subject.
What was said, was "the 190's are nose heavy," and therefore forward tanks should be burned first.
So here's my question, for AH purposes, what way should the gas tanks be burned to achieve maximum benefits in maneuverability?
Fw 190 A-5:
Fw 190 A-8:
Fw190 D-9:
Fw190 F-8:
TIA,
Rot
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Just leave them on auto; Aux (if available), Aft, Fwd.
It might be good to leave a little in each tank in case one gets shot out but I rarely bother.
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i always burn the Aft tank to about 1/8 and then burn the forward tank to 1/2. After that I burn the rest of the aft tank...
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I would rather have my SA about me than spend time switching tanks, if your flying it right it shouldn't be a huge issue, I up every flight with a full tank and a drop tank and I keep the drop tank on until its empty unless I realise I am up against a good opponent. Weight does affect turn but then again you shouldn't be trying to turn a plane that cannot turn, running out of fuel is however the end of you so it makes sense to take it for as long as possible.
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bah dont belive him, hes just a pervert anyways : )
one thing i might add to his writeup, this aircraft turns as poorly compared to anything else, even if you choose to turnfight, the success wount really depend on the fuel state.
Full tank, DT at will (the rack causes 6mph speed penality though), let the automatic manage your fuel.
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What was said, was "the 190's are nose heavy," and therefore forward tanks should be burned first.
Most of the advice you'll hear in Aces High won't be true. Always ask for an explanation. The quality of the answer will help you decide if you should heed the advice. It also reduces the confusion caused by non-standard use of terminology.
If you don't notice the difference yourself flying the plane it probably won't help you anyway. You have more basic things to master first.
Aces High is not responsible for Soda's page or Gonzo's plane comparison but both are respected, if dated, sites.
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I'm a little surprised that there is somewhat of a consensus that 190's can't turn. There are two that can in the lineup we've got and possibly three based off of my experience thus far. No, they are not going to stay in pure turns with the best turners, but I've noticed the ability to hang around long enough to get a few snapshots.
Regarding the burn order, it doesn't distract me to keep an eye on it.
One tactic I'm noticing on a frequent basis is nme trying to cause me to overshoot. With the generous amounts of mg ammo in the 190, would it be a good idea to spray some around to distract them from the focus on the overshoot and then extend from there to reposition? If I try to hang with them and don't kill them right away, my E is bled away and I turn into a sitting duck.
Rot
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One tactic I'm noticing on a frequent basis is nme trying to cause me to overshoot. With the generous amounts of mg ammo in the 190, would it be a good idea to spray some around to distract them from the focus on the overshoot and then extend from there to reposition? If I try to hang with them and don't kill them right away, my E is bled away and I turn into a sitting duck.
Use a rolling scissor to hold E and stay behind them.
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I'm a little surprised that there is somewhat of a consensus that 190's can't turn.
They can't
Regarding the burn order, it doesn't distract me to keep an eye on it.
Were you coming to this thread for advice or to find someone to agree with you? :D
This...
If I try to hang with them and don't kill them right away, my E is bled away and I turn into a sitting duck.
Is because of this...
No, they are not going to stay in pure turns with the best turners, but I've noticed the ability to hang around long enough to get a few snapshots.
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Were you coming to this thread for advice or to find someone to agree with you?
I think my question was pretty clear. Did you answer it, or tell me to not worry about it? Pilots that fly 190s regularly and have for years in AH were telling me Soda has it wrong, saying I should "burn the forward tank first." Don't you think that might be a bit confusing? Furthermore, if the write-up is incorrect don't you think it ought to be corrected, so noobs like me who want to fly this plane aren't at even more of a disadvantage? :D
I even made a nice little template for you to cut, paste and reply, didn't see that. :D
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I think my question was pretty clear.
Yup
So here's my question, for AH purposes, what way should the gas tanks be burned to achieve maximum benefits in maneuverability?
Did you answer it, or tell me to not worry about it?
That is your answer don't worry about it
Pilots that fly 190s regularly and have for years in AH were telling me Soda has it wrong, saying I should "burn the forward tank first." Don't you think that might be a bit confusing? Furthermore, if the write-up is incorrect don't you think it ought to be corrected, so noobs like me who want to fly this plane aren't at even more of a disadvantage? :D
I take it by saying template you are meaning the soda quotes on Aces High wiki? you can edit it yourself go make up an account, if you mean sodas site I am not soda :rofl
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I have been flying the 190D for 2 months "trying" soo hard to make her dance, but Pervert is flying that aircraft for many years. You dont have to belive us, dont have to take his advice, but then deal with your "awesomeness".
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I'm a little surprised that there is somewhat of a consensus that 190's can't turn. There are two that can in the lineup we've got and possibly three based off of my experience thus far. No, they are not going to stay in pure turns with the best turners, but I've noticed the ability to hang around long enough to get a few snapshots.
Regarding the burn order, it doesn't distract me to keep an eye on it.
One tactic I'm noticing on a frequent basis is nme trying to cause me to overshoot. With the generous amounts of mg ammo in the 190, would it be a good idea to spray some around to distract them from the focus on the overshoot and then extend from there to reposition? If I try to hang with them and don't kill them right away, my E is bled away and I turn into a sitting duck.
Rot
Their is a difference from a flat turn fight,and just (turning) after all to kill someone you need to have your guns on them,and bnz is not your only option in the 190 (though most cant fly it right) and think it is.Yo Yo's and wide angle turns not to mention that it is one of the best in vert ,work just fine in the 190 ,just don't flat turn it against to much for to long or to low a speed.Now about fuel burn I'm not sure on 190 myself so i wont answer, but always listen to the trainer here and trainers first, most players on AH and on this BBS "think" they are right but often i find they are not.
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Let auto handle it, it's doing it right - aka: don't worry about it.
Trust Pervert on this and many things abotu the 190s in AH (but since were hopefuly getting you into good/new habits - the proof is in his stats).
You'll find many people in AH talk out the wrong hole in regards to things they know little to nothign about, such as in this case with regards to fw190 fuel tank placement (both under the pilot), fuel tank sizes (the aft is signifigantly larger than the fwd tank), and probabley most criticly - their physical location in relation to aircraft's CG (as mentioned, under and behind your bum (aft)).
(http://i675.photobucket.com/albums/vv115/Babalon84/AH%20Junk/5_naljava69.jpg)
To expand on that, many don't know a lot of proper terminology. 190s as a whole can roll faster than most planes. 190s can out turn most anything above 300-350. They lack, compared to other more capable knife-fighters, a good sustained turn rate, especialy at slower speeds and on the deck (proficient planes in this area would be spits, LAs, zeros/KIs).
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You'll find many people in AH talk out the wrong hole in regards to things they know little to nothign about
It may be just a seasonal thing, but I came across a lot of bad advice in the game in the past weeks. Including this 190 fuel tank thing. Unfortunately players spreading such hearsay advice are often immune against reasoning, even explaining the causes and details won't change their mind.
Even explaining the differences between the various big caliber guns couldn't convince a certain player that the P-39D is the best tank buster in game. after all, only gun 'size' matters and he was sure HTC had modeled the guns this way instead of listening to such BS as shell type or muzzle velocity...
:confused:
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It may be just a seasonal thing, but I came across a lot of bad advice in the game in the past weeks. Including this 190 fuel tank thing. Unfortunately players spreading such hearsay advice are often immune against reasoning, even explaining the causes and details won't change their mind.
Perhaps it's because you're flying Bish this tour :D
No exaggeration...every single time I log in I see someone on country making some kind of cheat/hack accusation :rofl
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You can take or leave my personal advice. It works for me.
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It may be just a seasonal thing, but I came across a lot of bad advice in the game in the past weeks. Including this 190 fuel tank thing. Unfortunately players spreading such hearsay advice are often immune against reasoning, even explaining the causes and details won't change their mind.
Even explaining the differences between the various big caliber guns couldn't convince a certain player that the P-39D is the best tank buster in game. after all, only gun 'size' matters and he was sure HTC had modeled the guns this way instead of listening to such BS as shell type or muzzle velocity...
:confused:
:huh :( :rofl
Clearly, someone with enough experience to dismiss all those .30 and .50cals ricocheting off a tank's hull ingame for being just eye-candy. :banana:
Can't really go off on these new guys for being criticly wrong on some things... just flawed. Like the Hurricane IIB and its armament of 12 x .30cals, sure it'll work and shoot down a plane.
Same with the logic on the forward fuel tank in the 190. It's the forward tank, so it must be forward, right?
IF it was actualy located forward of the aircraft's CG, then draining it would indeed move the CG further aft. Logical. However, upon researching the facts, one will find all the 190's tanks, inluding the smaller forward tank, are actualy located aft of the aircraft's CG, thus if you drain it first (or last) you're actualy moving the aircraft's CG further forward, increasing this "nose heavy behavior" in direct contradiction to all those voicing an opinion to you via in-game chat that doing so not only won't, but somehow will improove this behavior ( :rofl :lol :devil :ahand ).
You can take or leave my personal advice. It works for me.
There is some logic to it, this isn't a discussion about why one should do it one way over another ("right and wrong"), just that one speific reason for draining the forward tank first is unfounded.
I am not dismissing anyone's efforts. Remember, the 190 only has two (2) tanks (sometimes a very (very) small third). Some planes have it even worse, imho, having only one tank. Draining one tank to absolute zero (0.000) assures you that your two-tank equiped 190 is now only equiped with a single (1) useful fuel tank now. If I'm going to be in a puffy-ack heavy region (CVs or strat), with or without a DT but a long enough distance from a safe field, and I don't want to get another and frequent fuel hit to tank A or B - I am often rewarded (although as equaly as I won't be for the effort imho) for the effort of not putting all my eggs/fuel in one basket/tank.
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I think what they are saying here is your going to get a LOT of conflicting information here and in the game. Soda's while informative hasn't been updated in years. In that time some planes have gone through flight model changes, weight changes and so on.
Basically read what you can, test what you can and go from there. In time you will get to know which people to listen to and which only THINK they know what they are talking about. There all kinds of stories out there about how this plane fights better when you drain this tank first, or if you shoot off all the 303 to lighten the nose and so on. The only thing that makes the planes fly better is the pilot, and he only does it because he has tested it and practiced it a couple million times.
So listen/read and take it all with a grain of salt and then go out and practice it! oh btw of perverts 303 kils this month 300 of them are in the D9..... just saying :devil
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I am not dismissing anyone's efforts. Remember, the 190 only has two (2) tanks (sometimes a very (very) small third). Some planes have it even worse, imho, having only one tank. Draining one tank to absolute zero (0.000) assures you that your two-tank equiped 190 is now only equiped with a single (1) useful fuel tank now. If I'm going to be in a puffy-ack heavy region (CVs or strat), with or without a DT but a long enough distance from a safe field, and I don't want to get another and frequent fuel hit to tank A or B - I am often rewarded (although as equaly as I won't be for the effort imho) for the effort of not putting all my eggs/fuel in one basket/tank.
152 has 4.
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Ta152 is a 190 and it isn't a 190, it's a different beast. Not best at all to bring up at the rudimentary level, unless you're volunteering to teach RotBaron its differences and subtle intricacies (particularly in this thread touching on the subject about turn capabilities, sustained turn rates and CoGs). He's also been suplied with links to previous 190 threads that go into more detail between the differences of each 190, while being specific in regards to looking for information on the 190A-5 and A-8.
Even with little to no fuel, the CG in a 152 is precariously aftwards, but the fuel definitely exacerbates it. The wing tanks aren't so much an issue with CG as they're (compared to the aft and fwd tanks) relatively well balanced to its CG (unless you crate an issue with making them unbalanced). With such a wide wingspan and aftward-CG, you have to limit how fast it can roll, or else you'll become unstable in the yaw axis and quickly swap your nose for your tail. All the other 190s, comparatively, are near impossible to create such an aggressive departure from controlled flight at such a high speed or energy state... again, it is a 190, but it's a different beast to learn or reach an understanding about 190s in whole.
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Ta152 is a 190 and it isn't a 190, it's a different beast. Not best at all to bring up at the rudimentry level, unless you're volunteering to teach RotBaron its differences and subtle intriquacies (particularly in this thread touching on the subject about turn capabilities, sustained turn rates and CoGs). He's also been suplied with links to previous 190 threads that go into more detail between the differences of each 190, while being specific in regards to looking for information on the 190A-5 and A-8.
It is a 190 and as such included in your statement 190 only has 2 tanks. Just clearing it up.
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So many great and informative posts following up my last post, I can't say enough. The 190 diagram speaks volumes, along with the additional informative comments, I believe that sums it up and I thank you very much.
Rot
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I believe that sums it up
you have not been around these forums long enough :D
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i tend to burn Fwd first to 1/2 then aft down to 1/4 on the A5 A8 D9 F8. The A8 never more than 75% fuel clean, if i use a drop tank, 50% internal fuel for A5 A8 D9.
My understanding of the fuel tank placement was that they were side by side under the pilot, but im probably wrong