Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Reaper90 on February 02, 2013, 02:40:45 PM
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All of these have been posted in other threads, by myself and others, concerning thinks that could/should be changed to the GV game to make it less "gamey." This is not about the usual crappy aspects of the GV game here (shrubbery that flips Panthers and Tigers, ox carts that stop a Panzer cold in its tracks, etc), but the gameplay related issues that really annoy....
Maybe it's time to put them together into a wishlist thread, instead of just having them dispersed throughout the bbs....
1) Time delay when ending sortie in GV, either from clipboard or .ef command of at least 5 seconds, maybe 10 seconds. The TigerII concrete sitting dweebs that are effectively invinceable use this as a method of avoiding attack from the air, sitting on concrete where they are safe to tower as soon as ords are released, then immediately re-up in the hanger and assume their previous spot. Gamey crap.
2) Minimum 30 sec time delay to repair GV with GV supps. Just like no crew can magically beam themselves out of a GV and to safety after a bomb is dropped, no crew can take a box of hand tools and rebuild a disabled tank in 0.01 seconds, complete with a fresh load of ammo.
3) No firing of any weapons from Tank Commander position, or at best a 3-5 second delay from command to fire of main gun by TC position.
4) Make the Tank Commander a killable position. You stick your melon up out of the top of a turret while aircraft or other vehicles are firing at you, you risk cranial ventilation. If a pilot in an aircraft can be pilot wounded or insta-killed by a single mg or cannon round, so should a tank crewman.
What else?
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do something about the spawn campers. we need auto ack around the spawns or maybe give 30sec of invinsiblity after spawning. so you can kill that sweetheartbag that just sits there waiting for a easy kill. its the most gamey thing about AH. people complain about vulching but at least you have to kill or fly thru the auto ack while doing it
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the only way I see solving the spawn camp is to make it objective based. If 5 + enemy tanks hold the spawn for 5 mins then it retreats closer to the base that can not defend it. It would be a reward for the gvers holding the spawn as well as an incentive to those trying to keep up the good fight by not spawning into a rear guarded spawn camp. This would end spawn camping as we know it. IF a gv assault successfully pushes the spawn back to the base and captures it then the spawns would reset.
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Won't work well to make commander killable. We no longer have the driver view modeled, so you would be forced to use the optics for navigation.
Also, make AI anti-tank guns come with the supps, just like you have auto back on the fields while rearming....
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The most gamey thing about the tanks in here is shooting down a plane with the main gun. I am retired from the Army from an Armored Cavalry unit and I can tell you you could not ever locate a flying aircraft in the main gun sight much less shoot at it. It would be like drilling a hole in the trunk of your car to stick a scoped rifle out of then having some one drive you around while you try to shoot a flying bird. If a tank ever hit a flying plane it was an accident and the crew never knew they hit it or it was a claim made by the Russians.
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The most gamey thing about the tanks in here is shooting down a plane with the main gun.
I do this all the time and it is ridiculous. This should be corrected.
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The most gamey thing about the tanks in here is shooting down a plane with the main gun. I am retired from the Army from an Armored Cavalry unit and I can tell you you could not ever locate a flying aircraft in the main gun sight much less shoot at it. It would be like drilling a hole in the trunk of your car to stick a scoped rifle out of then having some one drive you around while you try to shoot a flying bird. If a tank ever hit a flying plane it was an accident and the crew never knew they hit it or it was a claim made by the Russians.
I think some would argue that Lancasters, 400 feet off the ground over a tank battle dropping all its ord would be gamey, not the fact that a good gunner could hit them!
The Red Baron died by ground fire after getting to close to the infantry fight, the ostwind can kill a plane with a single shot,, so why wouldn't a main gun round,, a great deal larger,, not be able to do the same if the plane flew down into its guns ability to do so?
I flew target drones for the army and I can tell you that the M-1 could and did track my drones,
In the game tho,, many planes fly straight and level for long periods of time,, given that on occasion they fly directly out from or into the tank instead of slightly across and away from it, all you have to do is wait till the screen is full of plane and shoot! in real war, this would not happen,, any pilot that flew strait and level at or away from any ground vehicle was a moron,, probably soon to be dead,, any pilot that flew down low and thru a Tank battle would be susceptible to indiscriminate fire as well as directed fire, they reroute flights around artillery fire missions instead of thru them because they know there is always a chance, and lancs didn't get used to destroy armor very often if at all from 400 feet up, but that doesn't mean it wasn't possible, it just means it was probably not in the best interests of command, or the crew, or the plane, to do so!
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The most gamey thing about the tanks in here is shooting down a plane with the main gun. I am retired from the Army from an Armored Cavalry unit and I can tell you you could not ever locate a flying aircraft in the main gun sight much less shoot at it. It would be like drilling a hole in the trunk of your car to stick a scoped rifle out of then having some one drive you around while you try to shoot a flying bird. If a tank ever hit a flying plane it was an accident and the crew never knew they hit it or it was a claim made by the Russians.
True but how do you stop it? (yes you could code tank round to pass through planes, but why is that accurate?) The game tries to give you the views the tank had, the ballistics for the gun and round, etc. I think things in game happen because people practice things they never would have tried in real life. I think the practice make them possible, not necessarily because they defy physics. Not trying to be contrary, I really wonder about a lot of these things that happen in game. But I keep thinking that it may not have happened, but that doesn't mean it couldn't have happened.
I've never looked down the gun site of a WWII tank (or any other tank for that matter). Is the view width, etc, very different from that depicted in game? :salute
edit: thinking about it more, are the guns modelled to be too precise? trajectory randomization is modelled into machinge guns and aircraft cannons, but tank round seems to fire True, repeatably. Perhaps this is why they can hit a plane with only one shot. If it were randomised, they might miss more often. I don't know what randomization of round trajectories would be appropriate for a tank. do they dial any scatter into tank round trajectories? is it accurately modelled?
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The most gamey thing about the tanks in here is shooting down a plane with the main gun. I am retired from the Army from an Armored Cavalry unit and I can tell you you could not ever locate a flying aircraft in the main gun sight much less shoot at it. It would be like drilling a hole in the trunk of your car to stick a scoped rifle out of then having some one drive you around while you try to shoot a flying bird. If a tank ever hit a flying plane it was an accident and the crew never knew they hit it or it was a claim made by the Russians.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ THIS
And the GV icon at 600 stopped. This is Aces High ...not Low. Why should the GV get an advantage?
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in real life you wouldn't have a target the size of a large bomber within 1000 feet of a tank while flying,,, it would be at alt, way up high and no we can't hit those ,,, If they fly their planes down by the tank fight they become targets of the tanks so the real solution is to stay out of the ground battles with your airplane or use tactics that keep you from getting shot!
I can't understand why it is always the games fault that someone dies because they used stupid tactics!
find me any account of planes loitering over a tank fight at "extremely low alt",, machine gunning tanks that didn't get shot down by the tanks,,, Oh other than the Russians LOL ( just for you r 105)
or you could look up tank killing tactics from an airplane,, the 37 MM Russian guns in the yak, the IL-2 the P-39 were all used,, did the manual tell you to fly straight and level , low , on the deck,, toward the target, or to come in high, and above, then fire and pull out and up as soon as possible? I wonder why? if a tank couldn't hit a plane,, why would it matter?
this game has proven that just because it didn't happen during the war doesn't mean it couldn't have happened,,, in many aspects, most all of them were called gamey at some point but that doesn't make them impossible,, planes that can be killed on the ground by a main gun round can be killed in the air by a main gun round,, change that and you might as well do away with tanks all together,, or better yet make the bombs not kill the tanks,,,,I like that,, tanks can't kill planes and planes can't kill tanks,,, sounds good to me ( Insert Sarcasm Icon here) :rofl
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I can tell you you could not ever locate a flying aircraft in the main gun sight much less shoot at it.
Complete absolutist drivel.
You simply can't admit that airplanes are not magically invisible in a tank's gunsight.
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do something about the spawn campers. we need auto AC around the spawns or maybe give 30sec of invinsiblity after spawning. so you can kill that sweetheartbag that just sits there waiting for a easy kill. its the most gamey thing about AH. people complain about vulching but at least you have to kill or fly thru the auto ack while doing it
Learn how too brake the camp or call in air support.If airs not available go too a different town or base dont feed the campers.
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Learn how too brake the camp or call in air support.If airs not available go too a different town or base dont feed the campers.
Be careful. What you are recommending is that when game rules create bad gameplay, the answer is don't play. The fight is at the spawn at the field he's on, why does he need to leave the area and give up the fight? The "spawn" is to save driving time, so gameplay is improved. I don't think it's intent was to be a funnel point so the enemy can have a shooting gallery. As people have learned to surround and camp the spawn, the game can evolve to make the Spawn rouitine better to improve play. If you give up and leave, nothing improves. Leaving the area does not improve game play, it ends it. :salute
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I think things in game happen because people practice things they never would have tried in real life.
All of us have more opportunities to do practice seemingly "unrealistic" or even absurd stuff than a WW2 pilot or gunner had in real life. We not only have MUCH more combat happening than in RL (instead of flying around dozens or even hundreds of hours without engaging an enemy we encounter hostile contacts almost every sortie within a mere minutes), and we do not die if we mess up. Someone driving tanks for a few years in AH will have hundreds of thousands of shots fired at the enemy under all possible circumstances. I was able to perfect my diving attacks on tanks in my Hurricane IID because I never died for real and could just up again. Real Hurri D pilots never used that tactic due to the huge risks involved, and didn't have even remotely as much practice as I do.
And the "not dying" part is especially relevant to tanks killing planes with their main gun. If we would see fighter bombers and attackers engage tanks like they really did in the war, the number of main gun victims would be substantially closer. Just to illustrate: In AH the Wirbelwind quickly made the Ostwind obsolete due to it's high rate of fire. In reality, the Wirbelwind was being replaced by the Ostwind, because the effective range was simply too short. There weren't bunches of fighters and bombers dancing just in front of GVs. They did come in at high speeds, drop bombs or fire rockets at safe distances and egressed as quick as possible. They weren't flying down my gun barrel at slow speed, trying to strafe my Panther frontally with .50cal rounds. Almost every plane I ever shot down with the main gun did exactly this.
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They weren't flying down my gun barrel at slow speed, trying to strafe my Panther frontally with .50cal rounds. Almost every plane I ever shot down with the main gun did exactly this.
EXACTLY
Its a compromise between ease of play and difficulty of play. If you had to create a new account and log back in every time you got killed it might make things a tiny bit more realistic but I don't think the game would last too long. That said, the Tiger thing does seem to draw a lot of grumbles and the .ef delay sounds like a good solution. What would be the downside if it applied everywhere?
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EXACTLY
Its a compromise between ease of play and difficulty of play. If you had to create a new account and log back in every time you got killed it might make things a tiny bit more realistic but I don't think the game would last too long. That said, the Tiger thing does seem to draw a lot of grumbles and the .ef delay sounds like a good solution. What would be the downside if it applied everywhere?
Perhaps the GV .ef model could be changes to having to be in the hangar. Then you'd have to drive inside before ending a sortie safely. The concrete was a fine idea for the planes but since GV are fully combat operational on the concrete, perhaps that not a good end sortie position for them. :salute
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Complete absolutist drivel.
You simply can't admit that airplanes are not magically invisible in a tank's gunsight.
You do not know what you are talking about. You could fly a 747 over a tank and Chances are you would not even hear it over the noise in the tank. If you ever looked though a real main gun optic you would say the same as I am. The hole in the trunk of your car is about as good as I can explane it. I have fired over 100 105mm tank rounds and maybe a 2000 sub rounds at all kinds of target as well as looked through most WWII tank sights at the Patton museum. Tank rounds should not hit flying planes in the game. If you want to shoot planes get a Flakpanzer.
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so your general theory is that if a plane is sitting on the ground facing you at 500 yards you could sight it in but if it was 15 to 50 feet higher up somehow it would be to difficult for a gunner to see?
and of course the commander couldn't "Kentucky windage" a shot from his perch outside by just telling the gunner to fire the darn round at 180 degrees plus 10 degrees elevation?
and the gunner probably wouldn't be able to see the plane thru the sight because of this big blue thing blocking the view of the plane,, it looks like a large plane,,, as soon as it passes I'll try to find "your" plane in the viewfinder
I have created a top secret picture to help you understand
(http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg229/WWhiskey/tankvplane_zps7bfeb503.jpg)
now explain to me why a round coming out of that tank, at that moment, wouldn't hit that plane?
also from the picture we can see why the gunner wouldn't be able to see the plane,,, because the plane was in the way!!!
luckily, this top secret prototype tank has 3000 HP and does 0 to light speed even in reverse
you like my new photo shop ? Send me a self addressed stamped envelope with three dollars U.S. for my secret to great pictures,, yes you too can create cartoon events that never really happened using the latest gadgets and stuff!!!
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^^^^^
That is some of the best Photoshop work I have ever seen.
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Complete absolutist drivel.
You simply can't admit that airplanes are not magically invisible in a tank's gunsight.
You do not know what you are talking about. You could fly a 747 over a tank and Chances are you would not even hear it over the noise in the tank. If you ever looked though a real main gun optic you would say the same as I am. The hole in the trunk of your car is about as good as I can explane it. I have fired over 100 105mm tank rounds and maybe a 2000 sub rounds at all kinds of target as well as looked through most WWII tank sights at the Patton museum. Tank rounds should not hit flying planes in the game. If you want to shoot planes get a Flakpanzer.
Sorry, but optics don't work that way.
I shot down an La-7 using the main gun on a Panzer IV H. To do so I did not need to rotate the turret or elevate or lower the gun. He simply flew straight at my gun and I hit him when he was about 200-400 yards away. I had been engaged with enemy tanks and was not seeking aircraft targets nor was I ever in the commander's position.
Per your claim there is no way I could ever have seen the La-7 that was filling my gunsight and blocking my view of anything other than the La-7 and a bit of terrain.
Complete balderdash.
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^^^^^
That is some of the best Photoshop work I have ever seen.
Thanks :noid
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How about change the icon range for closed turreted tanks vs planes to the same range the planes get an icon? That should at least make it more difficult fo a main gun to get hits from greater distances.
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The most gamey thing about the tanks in here is shooting down a plane with the main gun. I am retired from the Army from an Armored Cavalry unit and I can tell you you could not ever locate a flying aircraft in the main gun sight much less shoot at it. It would be like drilling a hole in the trunk of your car to stick a scoped rifle out of then having some one drive you around while you try to shoot a flying bird. If a tank ever hit a flying plane it was an accident and the crew never knew they hit it or it was a claim made by the Russians.
From: Dmitriy Loza,
http://english.iremember.ru/tankers/17-dmitriy-loza.html?start=2
- The Sherman had an antiaircraft machine gun Browning M2 .50 caliber. Did you use it often?
- I don't know why, but one shipment of tanks arrived with machine guns, and another without them. We used this machine gun against both aircraft and ground targets. We used it less frequently against air targets because the Germans were not fools. They bombed either from altitude or from a steep dive. The machine gun was good to 400-600 meters in the vertical. The Germans would drop their bombs from say, 800 meters or higher. He dropped his bomb and departed quickly. Try to shoot the bastard down! So yes, we used it, but it was not very effective. We even used our main gun against aircraft. We placed the tank on the upslope of a hill and fired. But our general impression of the machine gun was good. These machine guns were of great use to us in the war with Japan, against kamikazes. We fired them so much that they got red hot and began to cook off. To this day I have a piece of shrapnel in my head from an antiaircraft machine gun.
In his book he also recounts when they took down a bomber with a main gun.
HiTech
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Also we have stayed consistent between all sights with power and field of view.
But a computer screen can not translate these 2 numbers to reality simply because moving your head closer or farther away or the size of the computer screen changes the Power.
Hence we basically halved the FOV on all sights from the real thing so that you could see the detail that we believe you could see with a give power in real life.
HiTech
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From: Dmitriy Loza,
http://english.iremember.ru/tankers/17-dmitriy-loza.html?start=2
- The Sherman had an antiaircraft machine gun Browning M2 .50 caliber. Did you use it often?
- I don't know why, but one shipment of tanks arrived with machine guns, and another without them. We used this machine gun against both aircraft and ground targets. We used it less frequently against air targets because the Germans were not fools. They bombed either from altitude or from a steep dive. The machine gun was good to 400-600 meters in the vertical. The Germans would drop their bombs from say, 800 meters or higher. He dropped his bomb and departed quickly. Try to shoot the bastard down! So yes, we used it, but it was not very effective. We even used our main gun against aircraft. We placed the tank on the upslope of a hill and fired. But our general impression of the machine gun was good. These machine guns were of great use to us in the war with Japan, against kamikazes. We fired them so much that they got red hot and began to cook off. To this day I have a piece of shrapnel in my head from an antiaircraft machine gun.
In his book he also recounts when they took down a bomber with a main gun.
HiTech
So they point and fired ... so what?
Again you are sighting 1 incidence just like Ack ......1! 1 time it happened.... yet in the game its like a Nintendo shot. You would not let a plane in the game with only 1 instance of it?
They arn't driving their tanks to slopes and firing for effect. They are jumping from the commander to the cupola, after linning up, and instantly shooting with perfect accuracy.
It never happened with any form of regularity at all ever.
The 600 yrd icon for flak and osties common, I can see it for tanks, but for osties and wirbles? No.
:salute
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So they point and fired ... so what?
Again you are sighting 1 incidence just like Ack ......1! 1 time it happened.... yet in the game its like a Nintendo shot. You would not let a plane in the game with only 1 instance of it?
They arn't driving their tanks to slopes and firing for effect. They are jumping from the commander to the cupola, after linning up, and instantly shooting with perfect accuracy.
It never happened with any form of regularity at all ever.
The 600 yrd icon for flak and osties common, I can see it for tanks, but for osties and wirbles? No.
:salute
I can see the tanks and wirbles from quite a distance away up to 4k away sometimes. All you have to do is look for little sparkles on the ground. If you have memorized the paint jobs (as I have) then you would know what vehicle is what.
Not only that, if you fly high enough you would be able to evade the vehicles entirely.
Also, there are obviously more than just 2 occasions where a tank has taken out a plane with its main gun. However, just because we don't have all the records or accounts of it doesn't mean that it shouldn't be in the game. Yeah players will jump from commander to main gun position, I see why you're upset about that. Personally, I think there should be a small animation for it when the player switches from one position to another. For example: Farcry 2 when switching from driver to gunner position there is a small animation, a delay of about 2 seconds roughly from shooting to driving.
I wouldn't mind having a delay like that in Aces High. However, tanks SHOULD have the ability to shoot down planes with their main gun, it is totally realistic. Just because YOU don't agree with it, doesn't mean it shouldn't be implemented. Ultimately, if HiTech determines that it should be in the game, then it's in for good.
Just my thoughts.
Respectively,
Tinkles
:salute
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From: Dmitriy Loza,
http://english.iremember.ru/tankers/17-dmitriy-loza.html?start=2
- The Sherman had an antiaircraft machine gun Browning M2 .50 caliber. Did you use it often?
- I don't know why, but one shipment of tanks arrived with machine guns, and another without them. We used this machine gun against both aircraft and ground targets. We used it less frequently against air targets because the Germans were not fools. They bombed either from altitude or from a steep dive. The machine gun was good to 400-600 meters in the vertical. The Germans would drop their bombs from say, 800 meters or higher. He dropped his bomb and departed quickly. Try to shoot the bastard down! So yes, we used it, but it was not very effective. We even used our main gun against aircraft. We placed the tank on the upslope of a hill and fired. But our general impression of the machine gun was good. These machine guns were of great use to us in the war with Japan, against kamikazes. We fired them so much that they got red hot and began to cook off. To this day I have a piece of shrapnel in my head from an antiaircraft machine gun.
In his book he also recounts when they took down a bomber with a main gun.
HiTech
No need to defend this Hitech, its been explained time and time over again, with actual accounts. People simply don't know history and refuse to use "Search". I have the book myself, I explained it enough times as well and people still don't get it.
Just because its not bragged in every book doesn't mean it didn't happen - I found more then 4 cases of tanks "Shooting the main gun" at aircrafts. In aces high and reality I can see the differences, In real life pilots don't fly Lancasters 400 ft off the deck to carpet bomb Ground vehicles.
Either learn to bomb tanks or don't get shot down, plain and simple.
Here's my favorite whine of all:
A P-47 pilot decided he didn't like me camping a certain spawn (85?) so he came over to dive bomb at 90 degrees. I took a gamble and positioned my tank so I could fire straight up, sure enough he tried to bomb and I shot him down while he was well over 2,000 ft above me.
A decent gunner can easily shoot down low flying bombers (learn to lead, and you can hit anything) - I've shot down my fair share of aircrafts and have been shot down by ground vehicles. I've not seen anything unhistorial or gamey about it.
Its a game, quit tightening your panties over it.
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I think at this point we have accounts of American, German and Russian tank crews shooting at aircraft with the main guns and at least two successful shoot downs with the main guns.
IJN battleship Yamato fired its main guns at aircraft during its death fight.
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So they point and fired ... so what?
Again you are sighting 1 incidence just like Ack ......1! 1 time it happened.... yet in the game its like a Nintendo shot. You would not let a plane in the game with only 1 instance of it?
They arn't driving their tanks to slopes and firing for effect. They are jumping from the commander to the cupola, after linning up, and instantly shooting with perfect accuracy.
It never happened with any form of regularity at all ever.
The 600 yrd icon for flak and osties common, I can see it for tanks, but for osties and wirbles? No.
:salute
You are correct, If a tank even shot down a flying aircraft it was by accident or luck and was never recorded by the crew. I know what I am saying about the tank sight and the noise. The hole in the trunk of your car shooting a flying bird is as good as I can explain it. However it is HTC's game and company and if they want to have magic main guns on their tanks it is their business and who am I to point out reality.
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Also we have stayed consistent between all sights with power and field of view.
Hence we basically halved the FOV on all sights from the real thing so that you could see the detail that we believe you could see with a give power in real life.
HiTech
Both of which have a very good impact on the ground game. It gives each gv their proper due. In no way shape or form should a T34 be able to slug it out with e Panther at 2400 yards by virtue of having a difficult time on location the Panther and then adjusting fire. Soviet tank sights in WWII were the worst. I think HTC has done well to mimic the tank sights of WWII, and perhaps even being a bit generous.
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I would like to see the HE round when it hits a tank explode instead of flying off into never never land
DHawk
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IJN battleship Yamato fired its main guns at aircraft during its death fight.
So did the Bismark, using her main and secondary guns at maximum depression to fire on the attacking Swordfish.
ack-ack
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The most gamey thing about the tanks in here is shooting down a plane with the main gun. I am retired from the Army from an Armored Cavalry unit and I can tell you you could not ever locate a flying aircraft in the main gun sight much less shoot at it. It would be like drilling a hole in the trunk of your car to stick a scoped rifle out of then having some one drive you around while you try to shoot a flying bird. If a tank ever hit a flying plane it was an accident and the crew never knew they hit it or it was a claim made by the Russians.
I haven't gv'd enough to know this for sure, but I think you are right about this and I think the others who have disagreed, however slightly, aren't seeing the whole picture.
The ability for a tank to fire on and hit an incoming aircraft isn't that unbelievable. I think the reason this is so easy in game is because we have the ability to instantly jump from an unimpeded view and back to the main gun again. It would be a nearly impossible task if the gunner, who has no way of locating that a/c, had to take verbal directions to get his optic turned to the incoming aircraft.
Making the odds of such a shot even more remote, I wager a war time tank commander didn't sit in the open in full view of snipers.
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Why is it so many ppl whine about spawn camps. It can serve several purposes, specifically one which was employed in every theatre of the war; strategic position. Putting yourself between the enemy and the town/base will often save the base, or at least make it much more difficult to do.
And for those spawn camping just to have gv fight, well, if you don't like it go and clear (bomb) them out and call your countrymen to spawn in afterward.
:salute
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Why is it so many ppl whine about spawn camps. It can serve several purposes, specifically one which was employed in every theatre of the war; strategic position. Putting yourself between the enemy and the town/base will often save the base, or at least make it much more difficult to do.
And for those spawn camping just to have gv fight, well, if you don't like it go and clear (bomb) them out and call your countrymen to spawn in afterward.
:salute
if it's real war we want, we should all just join one country, divide in to two, and roll the other two countries.. That would be proper strategy. No opposition, roll them buildings, capture them bases, win us some wars! We'll only need to fight the auto-ack.. Some will die, but we will win every map!