Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Aces High Bug Reports => Topic started by: bozon on February 19, 2013, 10:58:36 AM
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At least this is the message that one gets in the Mk.VI when trying to open the bomb bay doors - if bombs were not selected in the hangar.
If on the other hand I select bombs, then drop them, the empty bomb bay opens just fine.
The reason I want an empty bomb bay to open is to use it as a diving speed breaks. For some reason our Mk.VI sheds parts when over 480 TAS and this helps in slowing it down. Some real Mosquito night fighters used the bay doors as speed breaks to assist in slowing down behind their target.
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Up with bombs.....get on runway......open doors...drop bombs....close doors....take off.....fixed :aok
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Up with bombs.....get on runway......open doors...drop bombs....close doors....take off.....fixed :aok
Not quite. The doors still exist even if there is nothing in them.
This is also a bug on the B-25H and the A-20.
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I request HTC change the message on relevant aircraft to "oh no you don't, Mossies don't have dive breaks".
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I request HTC change the message on relevant aircraft to "oh no you don't, Mossies don't have dive breaks".
:rofl :rofl
But that's a tad aircraft specific...how about a simple 'Don't bother, there's nothing in there!' :lol :lol
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I request HTC change the message on relevant aircraft to "oh no you don't, Mossies don't have dive breaks".
Opening the bomb bay doors and dropping the gear was used operationally to add drag when necessary.
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Opening the bomb bay doors and dropping the gear was used operationally to add drag when necessary.
As dive breaks though?
Not quite the same thing.
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Similar to the gear on the corsair.
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So you want to CREATE a totally fake loophole in the game because you're trying to do stuff you shouldn't?
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No, make that
-EleventyBillion
And grow up.
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if it was done in real life then I dn't see why not
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He's talking about using it for a 480mph speed brake because he's diving faster than he should. At those speeds the doors probably wouldn't function or would rip off (possibly damaging the plane from the 480mph shift in flight dynamics as it ripped off).
What he's asking for may very well have been catastrophic in nature, but he's just looking for a gamey loophole to fly in a way he shouldn't fly.
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Doors don't rip off like gear or other control surfaces?
If not it sounds like we have 2 wishes here...
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He's talking about using it for a 480mph speed brake because he's diving faster than he should.
He's talking about using it to forestall reaching that speed not to open it at 480 and decelerate.
As dive breaks though?
Not quite the same thing.
The Alpha is irrelevant, the bomb bay generated a lot of drag and this is an authentic technique.
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Most control surfaces began lockup up at 480mph... Bomb bay doors weren't meant to be fast speed brakes at extreme speeds. They just covered bombs to reduce drag. They didn't have super strong motors and they weren't made super rugged to withstand that kind of force. Again: He's talking about abusing the game and asking for a game-the-game mechanic. Nothing more.
Unless you have absolute proof that they were used this way at maximum speeds up to and past VNE (HAH!) I don't think you have a leg to stand on.
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Most control surfaces began lockup up at 480mph... Bomb bay doors weren't meant to be fast speed brakes at extreme speeds. They just covered bombs to reduce drag. They didn't have super strong motors and they weren't made super rugged to withstand that kind of force. Again: He's talking about abusing the game and asking for a game-the-game mechanic. Nothing more.
No, he isn't. As I've already tried to explain to you once you open the doors at lower speeds to reduce the acceleration nose-down or dump retained energy. The 480 mph quoted is the speed at which you lose surfaces. He's not asking to open the doors at those speeds, try to keep up.
Using the bomb bay (the doors open longitudinally anyway) as a brake was mentioned in a British documentary which is available on YouTube I believe. Others have seen it too if you care to read the thread carefully.
Unless you have absolute proof that they were used this way at maximum speeds up to and past VNE (HAH!) I don't think you have a leg to stand on.
For someone who never substantiates anything he says, your demand for absolute proof is incredibly hypocritical.
If other bombers can leave the bay empty and still open the doors then this is simply a bug.
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I don't think that is what he is asking for at all. I think he means that if he dives 5000ft accelerating from 100mph to 400mph with a clean fuselage then doing the same with the doors open would only result in accelerating from 100mph to 380mph. I don't think he meant that he would accelerate to 480mph then open the doors to speed brake.
Also I believe that the vast majority of the drag is caused by the hollow space of the bay rather than the doors themselves. The doors are relatively streamlined and not be put under much stress.
I am not advocating the wish, just playing devil's advocate.
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I dont know if openning the bombbay doors was common or not but I do know they tested a speed brake on the mossie but found it wasnt needed as the landing gear did a fine job at slowing the Mossie.
The only US Mossie Ace mentions using the gear to slow his approach on a 410 that he was about to over shoot! He mentions he got excited to see that the 410 left his land lights on at night and in his excitement he didnt notice his high rate of closure.He thought he might overshoot and blow his chances until he dropped the gear and blew the 410 out of the sky.
So maybe if we cant get the bombdoors to open we should be able to lower the gear at higher speeds.
YMMV.
:salute
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He's talking about using it for a 480mph speed brake because he's diving faster than he should. At those speeds the doors probably wouldn't function or would rip off (possibly damaging the plane from the 480mph shift in flight dynamics as it ripped off).
What he's asking for may very well have been catastrophic in nature, but he's just looking for a gamey loophole to fly in a way he shouldn't fly.
Krusty, what I do is to open the doors in order not to reach 480. In a mossie6, if you are already at 480 and still pointed down you are dead, no doors will save you. Currently, if I am going 300+ mph and need to dive on someone below, or make a steep dive bombing run (wing bombs), I have to ride the rudder in order not to reach 480 is a couple of seconds. The opening the bay helps a little.
The doors are already in the game and they function if I load up bombs and ditch them on the runway. This is a stupid work around and the message "your plane does not have a bomb bay" seems kind of silly and breaks the internal logic of the game: The exact same plane with the exact same current loadout operates differently depending on how it started its sortie. In other words, without any bombs on, one has to remember whether or not he had bombs sometime earlier when he plans to dive on a target. This is the reason why I think this is a bug and asked for it to be fixed.
Finally, it was done in reality. I do not know of any official speed limits to opening the bay doors. They were definitely built to be opened at 300+ mph because mosquitoes were supposed to be able to drop bombs at such speeds. The gears too were used at high speeds, though in the game I can only lower them under 190 mph. I am not asking to change the way gears operate. Unlike the bomb bay, the speed at which I can lower the gear does not depend on whether or not I had bombs when I took off.
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Geeze Bozon,I thought for sure you'd back my play to have the gear work at a higher speed!
I agree with you about the doors and have often wondered why I've gotten that message when I accidently pressed the bay doors to open without bombs!
However it never occured to me to use the doors in that manner,I've always used the gamey flaps that retract to control my dives.
:salute
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Finally, it was done in reality. I do not know of any official speed limits to opening the bay doors. They were definitely built to be opened at 300+ mph because mosquitoes were supposed to be able to drop bombs at such speeds. The gears too were used at high speeds, though in the game I can only lower them under 190 mph. I am not asking to change the way gears operate. Unlike the bomb bay, the speed at which I can lower the gear does not depend on whether or not I had bombs when I took off.
Do you have a figure for a 'higher' landing gear deployment speed Bozon? If you can quantify it with historical data then it should be altered.
God bless the wooden wonder, and all who sail in her. Hurrah! :banana:
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Shida, if he's talking about opening doors to recover from a dive, then no. No unless the doors will rip off if he goes too fast.
Fine with opening doors to slow down, just not gamiw the hell out of things.
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Shida, if he's talking about opening doors to recover from a dive, then no. No unless the doors will rip off if he goes too fast.
Fine with opening doors to slow down, just not gamiw the hell out of things.
Tank-Ace, the doors should operate as they did on the real aircraft. As Bozon quite rightly pointed out, the Mosquito was a high speed bomber - it relied on its high speed for survival and there is no suggestion it had to slow down in order to drop weapons from the bomb bay, therefore we know the doors could be opened at high speed.
All of these doors ripping off comments is speculation. Someone, perhaps Karnak will have the data, same with the gear.
What we do with that in game is up to us. Anyone suggesting this is 'gaming' is ignoring most of the other Aces High activities.
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High speed doesn't mean opening doors at, say 460+ on the deck. World of difference between the 330 the mossie 6 makes on the deck, And 450.
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High speed doesn't mean opening doors at, say 460+ on the deck. World of difference between the 330 the mossie 6 makes on the deck, And 450.
And once again, I have to point out that isn't what's being suggested. Please read the OP again.
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The reason I want an empty bomb bay to open is to use it as a diving speed breaks. For some reason our Mk.VI sheds parts when over 480 TAS and this helps in slowing it down.
How exactly is this to be interpreted, then?
He obviously wants to open the doors to slow his acceleration in high speed dives. Now within reason, this is fine, but when you reach part-shedding speeds, that's where I take issue.
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How exactly is this to be interpreted, then?
He obviously wants to open the doors to slow his acceleration in high speed dives. Now within reason, this is fine, but when you reach part-shedding speeds, that's where I take issue.
Perhaps his wording was unfortunate but he clarified it later. I interpreted it to mean he wanted to open the doors in order to reduce the acceleration in the dive before he started his dive, not to pop them at 480 to keep your surfaces (which arguably shouldn't detach anyway).
All this door detaching speculation aside, I think it again needs to be pointed out you can do this anyway by taking two bombs and discarding them on takeoff. You can also choose to leave your internal bomb bay empty in the hangar, then you get the 'this plane has no bomb bay' message.
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I have no idea when a mossie would start shedding parts. If it does so too soon, that needs to be fixed as well. However, I also think doors should shed like any other component. Maybe the speed is higher, maybe not. But it should still happen.
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I think it again needs to be pointed out you can do this anyway by taking two bombs and discarding them on takeoff. You can also choose to leave your internal bomb bay empty in the hangar, then you get the 'this plane has no bomb bay' message.
That is the primary point of this wish imho.
There doesn't seem to be any speed limit to open bay doors on any plane in game afaik.
I once remember diving a Ju88 from 30K (went afk in a climb) and I could easily open the bays at over 500mph. Bit surprised it held together at such high speeds too, but thats a different matter.
The point of the wish is that on certain planes when you up with no bombs the bomb bay magically disappears. So as of now, you can up an aircraft ditch/drop the bombs and then the empty bay still works and can be used anyway you like. But if you take off with no bombs, do the ground mech's remove the entire bay? :headscratch:
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I have no idea when a mossie would start shedding parts. If it does so too soon, that needs to be fixed as well. However, I also think doors should shed like any other component. Maybe the speed is higher, maybe not. But it should still happen.
OK, that does it! you made me use a bulleted list and bold faced fonts! :furious
- What I point out as a likely BUG is that the bay doors cannot be opened AT ALL if bombs were not loaded in the hangar
- The Moss6 in AH can ALREADY open the bay doors at all speeds (provided you had bombs in it in the hangar). There are no speed limits to any plane with a bomb bay in AH. No new modeling whatsoever is being requested. This is not the wish list forum.
- The only reason to mention its in-game as well as historical use as a speed break is to explain why I even care about this. This is still not a game breaking bug, or something that will get to the top of the priority list.
- For those with reading comprehension deficiency: using it as a speed break means to PREVENT the plane from reaching its low critical speed of ~480 mph. Even more explicit: open it at speed LOWER than 480. If one insists on accurate flight modeling, I am not aware of such a low limit or any typical mosquito issues with high speed dives. Our B.Mk XVI bomber mossie can reach higher speeds in a dive, safely. I am not challenging this in this thread because I have yet to find what was the real critical diving speed in the VI. No data = no FM modification petitions. The opening of the bomb bay is not a FM change (see bullet #2).
Perhaps now it is clear.
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Perhaps you missed where I said I'm fine with opening doors to create drag. I also think it should be changed so the doors rip off if yo go too fast.
Do one, why not the other, since they are related.
Calm your tits, bozon.
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Careful ace, otherwise he might break out the italics!
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You tell him Tank-Ace!
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Calm your tits, bozon.
Careful ace, otherwise he might break out the italics!
calmare le mie tette!
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You tell him Bozon!
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You encourage them Shida!
:banana:
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Sssh, I'm helping spread harmony and good will on the forum.
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I think HTC got what needed to be reported way back up this thread. Nothing is left except exchanging silly retorts using odd fonts and foreign languages.
I am officially signed off from this thread before I get banned.
See Skuzzy, I am putting the keyboard down and walking away... hands on my head... walking away... dont ban.