Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Armkreuz on April 14, 2013, 01:58:36 PM
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I guess this is my first post. I have a beef with the "punishment" that is rendered during gameplay by the "moving my controls so rapidly" control lockup message. I thought the goal for this game is realism in gameplay. If I were in a heated dogfight with an opponent in WW2, and my controls were to lock up for 4 to 5 seconds, then I am surely a dead man. If we are going to lay out punishment for moving a control too fast, then do that in the training arena. If I have to throw my airplane to the side quickly, then I don't want to be getting a death demerit for trying to move too quickly. I think that certain death by game host judgment is a bit out of place in the main arena. Train the pilots in the training arena not the main battle when a control lockup means certain death. Not cool.
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the punishment is for MOVING YOUR CONTROLS TO FAST. If in a real plane you did those stick movements it should drop your plane out of the sky. Many also believe that the fast inputs give a dodging plane an advantage as the graphics can't keep up with the movements and so make it look like the plane flops around.
Bottom line is to learn how to fly WITHOUT jerking your stick all over. It will make you a better cartoon pilot in the end. It is the same limitation for everyone.
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armkreuz you can stall your plane without moving your controls fast. I cant do it but many people in the game do. but to be honest I think it is a dumb thing to do as most of the time gets your killed but I guess it's better than nothing.
semp
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Oh...I understand perfectly WHY it's being done, but my point is wouldn't it be more appropriate for this punishment to be handed out in the training arena. In essence the game host is DECIDING something that should be determined by the pilot. I Would agree with you (in part) about moving your controls too rapid would make you plane plummet, but ONLY death at low altitude. If I had ample altitude during a "Rapid Move Event", then I would be able to pull out of a flat spin OR stall in time. Point being at least I could move my controls in order to TRY and recover or dodge an oncoming adversary. Certain death could be avoided where as control surfaces COULD be used and not rendered locked in the position. By not being able to at least MOVE your controls you are set up in a straight line shot for your opponent OR according to the position you were locked, you may be locked into the down position and then a compression event occurs. SO....I can't agree with you on most of what you said. Thanks for your comment though.
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You're trying to move the controls faster than they could be moved in reality. Doing so in the game would allow some aircraft to perform spastic maneuvers that make them very hard to display rationally due to lag. Move your controls at a slower speed. Your plane will still respond.
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I understand the frustration as I recall feeling the same way starting out. You may want to adjust the dampening setting for your controller, this will filter out spikes from your controller that the game may read as inputs, and also smooth out rapid inputs if that is in fact what your doing. Bottom line is that after a few experiences with the penalty, you will find yourself not running afowl of it very much in the future.
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I actually think HTC should tighten the threshold on the "dont stick stir" message and penalty. The amount of fish flopping going on in AH is amazing, I'm surprised that so many get away with it. HAXORS! :lol
Seriously though, only in a few certain maneuvers did pilots ever yank on the stick in such manner and that was do purposely lose control, if even for only an instant, in order to perform a legit ACM. Case in point is the 109's snap roll. There are a few others as well.
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I actually think HTC should tighten the threshold on the "dont stick stir" message and penalty.
+1 :aok
Armkreuz, you probably just need to get a better stick, or check the calibration of your current one as Murdr suggests. :salute
When I first started flying AH with a cheap stick I would get 'Do not move controls so rapidly' in dogfights and it would be the end of me, as soon as I got a decent stick (CH :aok :aok :aok) I don't think I've ever had that message since. Not only that but it was a lot easier to kill stuff ;]
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The message that I was trying to convey is one of "punishment". In my "opinion". It's too stiff for moving your joystick too quick as it kills you every time. Not sure they had that kind of punishment in the cockpit of a WW2 warbird. I just thought it a bit silly. Seems to me we have just taken a problem that's programmatically too difficult and replaced what would REALLY happen (since we're staying with the guise of reality) and replaced it with a punishment. Thanks for your replies.
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what stick do you have? i find cheap sticks do it more tis why i quit using saitek
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The message that I was trying to convey is one of "punishment". In my "opinion". It's too stiff for moving your joystick too quick as it kills you every time. Not sure they had that kind of punishment in the cockpit of a WW2 warbird. I just thought it a bit silly. Seems to me we have just taken a problem that's programmatically too difficult and replaced what would REALLY happen (since we're staying with the guise of reality) and replaced it with a punishment. Thanks for your replies.
You're looking at it backwards. You aren't punished for breaking your aircraft by moving the stick too fast, you're rewarded with a fixed aircraft after a short wait, if you don't get killed waiting. :joystick:
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I never get the message, and that's because I don't stick stir like some. Learn how to avoid shots without stick stirring and you won't have a problem.
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I got a hall-effect joystick and it happened the first time I tried it out.
It happens to me most often now when in pursuit of a red with a chopped throttle on the edge of falling out of the sky or when the red is going all over the place.
You just have to live with it by trying to avoid the situation that makes it happen most. Once you avoid the situation it doesn't happen as often.
It is beyond irritating but apparently without the freeze thing the game play would decline.
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What I'm trying to work out is why someone in the TA would be "punished" by moving the controls too quickly,
but someone in the MA would not for doing the extra same thing? You are not teaching the new guy anything if you
get a different result while performing the same action in another arena.
Learning to be less ham-fisted on the controls is part of the learning curve in AH. Eventually you will learn to make
smaller slower corrections to get the aircraft to do what you want it to. I literally cannot remember the last time I got
this message...it's been years at least.
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How the rate works.
1 unit of measure is the distance from stick center to an edge.
The system will allow you a sustained rate of 2 units per second. And you can burst up to 4 units a second.
I.E. to trigger the message you would have to go from center to full left then full right the full left then full right in less then one second.
So you are either really slamming the joy stick around, or you have a stick that is creating false inputs.
HiTech
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I got a hall-effect joystick and it happened the first time I tried it out.
It happens to me most often now when in pursuit of a red with a chopped throttle on the edge of falling out of the sky or when the red is going all over the place.
You just have to live with it by trying to avoid the situation that makes it happen most. Once you avoid the situation it doesn't happen as often.
It is beyond irritating but apparently without the freeze thing the game play would decline.
If you are slow enough you won't get the message. It's turned off at a % of stall speed where you would normally be able to move your controls faster.
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Oh...I understand perfectly WHY it's being done, but my point is wouldn't it be more appropriate for this punishment to be handed out in the training arena. In essence the game host is DECIDING something that should be determined by the pilot. I Would agree with you (in part) about moving your controls too rapid would make you plane plummet, but ONLY death at low altitude. If I had ample altitude during a "Rapid Move Event", then I would be able to pull out of a flat spin OR stall in time. Point being at least I could move my controls in order to TRY and recover or dodge an oncoming adversary. Certain death could be avoided where as control surfaces COULD be used and not rendered locked in the position. By not being able to at least MOVE your controls you are set up in a straight line shot for your opponent OR according to the position you were locked, you may be locked into the down position and then a compression event occurs. SO....I can't agree with you on most of what you said. Thanks for your comment though.
What exactly, are the different altitudes and different aircraft that you have performed stall recoveries in that makes what you posted a qualifying and educated statement?
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How the rate works.
1 unit of measure is the distance from stick center to an edge.
The system will allow you a sustained rate of 2 units per second. And you can burst up to 4 units a second.
I.E. to trigger the message you would have to go from center to full left then full right the full left then full right in less then one second.
So you are either really slamming the joy stick around, or you have a stick that is creating false inputs.
HiTech
It has been awhile since I tried this but it only took starting from center, full-left, then full-right then back again to full left to trigger it. I could do it every time a month back or so.
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What exactly, are the different altitudes and different aircraft that you have performed stall recoveries in that makes what you posted a qualifying and educated statement?
I do apologize for throwing you for a loop there, but the point I was trying to make (Uneducated and BARELY qualifying mind you) is that IF you do get the stick error/punishment/lockup (whatever you prefer to call it) at LOW altitude, then you are dead. I just wanted to make the statement that (In my OPINION....dunno if opinions have to be educated or not) it was too harsh. That was it. I know people that have flown this game for YEARS may have put this error behind them and is no longer a concern. I do not get this error/message all the time. I am competent enough to avoid it most of the time, but I do occasionally get hit with it. I guess if we are that adamant about the joystick, MAYBE we should make everyone set their fuel mixture and if its not set right the plane would explode in mid air OR when you land and apply the brakes too long the tires will blow out and flip the plane OR maybe we can make the pilot regulate / set the pitch on his prop/s and if not done correctly the plane would fall from the sky. The whole point of this thread was to show that you can go too far. It is a game. Thanks for your passionate comments.
Armkreuz
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I do apologize for throwing you for a loop there, but the point I was trying to make (Uneducated and BARELY qualifying mind you) is that IF you do get the stick error/punishment/lockup (whatever you prefer to call it) at LOW altitude, then you are dead. I just wanted to make the statement that (In my OPINION....dunno if opinions have to be educated or not) it was too harsh. That was it. I know people that have flown this game for YEARS may have put this error behind them and is no longer a concern. I do not get this error/message all the time. I am competent enough to avoid it most of the time, but I do occasionally get hit with it. I guess if we are that adamant about the joystick, MAYBE we should make everyone set their fuel mixture and if its not set right the plane would explode in mid air OR when you land and apply the brakes too long the tires will blow out and flip the plane OR maybe we can make the pilot regulate / set the pitch on his prop/s and if not done correctly the plane would fall from the sky. The whole point of this thread was to show that you can go too far. It is a game. Thanks for your passionate comments.
Armkreuz
Incorrect mixtures make the plane explode? I will be more careful with my weedwhacker mixture setting from now on :eek:
How long is too long and why do my Jeep tires not blow out when I hold the brakes for too long?
That settles it, when I finish building my plane, it is getting a fixed-pitch prop. No falling out of the sky for me!
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I get his occasionally, but it is usually when the ole X52 is beginning to show some wear. A wise man once told me concerning stick movements: "smooth stick movements keep you fast, and fast stick movements make you slow". Tis True.
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Incorrect mixtures make the plane explode? I will be more careful with my weedwhacker mixture setting from now on :eek:
How long is too long and why do my Jeep tires not blow out when I hold the brakes for too long?
That settles it, when I finish building my plane, it is getting a fixed-pitch prop. No falling out of the sky for me!
Hey...If you get that Weed Whacker up and flying, PLEASE send video. How do you ride that thing...Side Saddle?
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Hey...If you get that Weed Whacker up and flying, PLEASE send video. How do you ride that thing...Side Saddle?
Just trying to figure out how a lean or rich mixture would make an engine explode :headscratch:
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Thought it was common knowledge. I can send you an article on detonation and pre-ignition if you like. This is a little piece of the article for your benefit.
All high output engines are prone to destructive tendencies as a result of over boost, misfueling, mis-tuning and inadequate cooling.
"The combustion event begins with a spark, rapidly builds pressure in the portion of the fuel/air mix that hasn't burned yet, and as that pressure builds, the temperature increases. Once the temperature gets hot enough, the remaining mixture "explodes," causing a hammer-like blow to the piston. "Detonation can cause catastrophic engine failure within a few seconds." For completeness, it is worth mentioning that "detonation" refers to abnormal explosion(s) AFTER the normal ignition. If spontaneous ignition occurs before the spark plug fires, that's a different and far more dangerous condition: "preignition." Either condition can lead to the other, and once they start working together, catastrophic engine failure is only seconds away.
Just for you too... Detonation can be caused by too much spark advance, high IATs, lean mixture, dry air, high ECTs, low octane, etc. It occurs when the spark ignited flame front compresses the reaming air fuel mixture till it reaches critical temperature and pressure to auto ignite the mixture on the other side of the cylinder.
I hope this clears it up for you. You seemed concerned.
Thanks for the reply.
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Thought it was common knowledge. I can send you an article on detonation and pre-ignition if you like. This is a little piece of the article for your benefit.
All high output engines are prone to destructive tendencies as a result of over boost, misfueling, mis-tuning and inadequate cooling.
"The combustion event begins with a spark, rapidly builds pressure in the portion of the fuel/air mix that hasn't burned yet, and as that pressure builds, the temperature increases. Once the temperature gets hot enough, the remaining mixture "explodes," causing a hammer-like blow to the piston. "Detonation can cause catastrophic engine failure within a few seconds." For completeness, it is worth mentioning that "detonation" refers to abnormal explosion(s) AFTER the normal ignition. If spontaneous ignition occurs before the spark plug fires, that's a different and far more dangerous condition: "preignition." Either condition can lead to the other, and once they start working together, catastrophic engine failure is only seconds away.
Just for you too... Detonation can be caused by too much spark advance, high IATs, lean mixture, dry air, high ECTs, low octane, etc. It occurs when the spark ignited flame front compresses the reaming air fuel mixture till it reaches critical temperature and pressure to auto ignite the mixture on the other side of the cylinder.
I hope this clears it up for you. You seemed concerned.
Thanks for the reply.
A very long-winded explanation for "pinging" and "knocking". Fabulous.
This does not mean the plane will "explode" into pieces. There is a possibility of catastrophic engine failure, i.e. smacking a valve, throwing a rod, etc. None of these engine failures make the plane explode.
Also, planes do not normally fall out of the sky, willy-nilly, least of all from incorrect prop pitch. There is something called a glide ratio. They aren't helicopters.
For my benefit...
What is the mixture on the other side of the cylinder?
What is the other side of the cylinder? I didn't realize that there was an other side to the cylinder...
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Armkreuz,
You are aware that each aircraft has a time debt in its response to axis movements form your controller inputs dictated by the physical emulation of the effects of gravity and airflow over your wing at any give point. Combine that with your real forward momentum or lack of it in a tense combat moment.
Some players get to know "Don't Move Your Controls Rapidly" better than others as you seem to now.
I understand you want to be on record with this post that you believe the existence of this function is unfair. In the same spirit you seem to be happy with your fate of killing yourself in the game by not wanting to seek all of the solutions learned over the last decade with this game by many sources willing to help you.
By no means are you the first to register a complaint about this function. You will not be the last, especially while the rest of us who can control our inputs to never experience this unfair problem, will be waiting in the MA to exploit your unwillingness to seek help.
Thank you for the free kill because I doubt anything will be done to conced to your complaint by HTC.
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Well Bustr...
Never said it was unfair. So NO I have not gone on the record of saying that it was unfair. Unfair would mean that it only applies to me. That is not the case. I say for a 3rd time to those who like to put words in my mouth. I ONLY said that (IN MY OPINION) it was inappropriate AND Silly. If you get UNFAIR from that...Well comprehension will likely be the problem there. I ONLY suggested that it be done in the Training area. You guys have run with it from there. Didn't mean to open up a big ole bag of poo. Seems minds are made up on this subject so to me it is now moot. Thanks for the replies. I appreciate you guys input.
Armkreuz
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Just trying to figure out how a lean or rich mixture would make an engine explode :headscratch:
Well this is the question that you asked. You didn't go back to what I wrote. THIS is what you wrote and I think I explained it perfectly about HOW an engine could explode by inadequate fuel mixture. I can write it again if you like.
This is just a couple of the quotes I gave in my "Long Winded Explanation"
"Detonation can cause catastrophic engine failure within a few seconds." Seems to answer your question the first time.
"All high output engines are prone to destructive tendencies as a result of over boost, misfueling, mis-tuning and inadequate cooling." OOPS...There it is again.
"Either condition can lead to the other, and once they start working together, catastrophic engine failure is only seconds away." (meaning pre-ignition OR detonation) AND a third time.
There you go. Answered....Again. If that don't do it. Well I guess it's a lost cause.
Thanks
Armkreuz
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Catastrophic engine failure does not mean explosion. It means parts fall off (and that's worse case scenario) :salute
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Well this is the question that you asked. You didn't go back to what I wrote. THIS is what you wrote and I think I explained it perfectly about HOW an engine could explode by inadequate fuel mixture. I can write it again if you like.
This is just a couple of the quotes I gave in my "Long Winded Explanation"
"Detonation can cause catastrophic engine failure within a few seconds." Seems to answer your question the first time.
"All high output engines are prone to destructive tendencies as a result of over boost, misfueling, mis-tuning and inadequate cooling." OOPS...There it is again.
"Either condition can lead to the other, and once they start working together, catastrophic engine failure is only seconds away." (meaning pre-ignition OR detonation) AND a third time.
There you go. Answered....Again. If that don't do it. Well I guess it's a lost cause.
Thanks
Armkreuz
I am still waiting for the part where the plane explodes. :headscratch:
Still wondering what "the mixture on the other side of the cylinder is" and where the "other side of the cylinder" is.
Also still wondering how planes fall from the sky due to incorrect prop pitch.
Why does this not happen to fixed-pitch or ground-adjustable prop planes?
:salute and happy stick-stirring :aok
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It always seems that when people complain abouy the "moving controls too quick" message it is always in reference to someone being on their 6. Never seen a complaknt where it happens elsewhere in a fight. Henve th fact I shall draw proper inference and say 'stop stick stirring' Dont you know I have but a finite number of rounds? :joystick:
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'stop stick stirring' Dont you know I have but a finite number of rounds? :joystick:
:rofl :aok
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It always seems that when people complain abouy the "moving controls too quick" message it is always in reference to someone being on their 6. Never seen a complaknt where it happens elsewhere in a fight. Henve th fact I shall draw proper inference and say 'stop stick stirring' Dont you know I have but a finite number of rounds? :joystick:
In my experience it's usually when people are trying to make a shot that they lock up.
All the "stop stick stirring"responses don't help with that.
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Oh...I understand perfectly WHY it's being done, but my point is wouldn't it be more appropriate for this punishment to be handed out in the training arena. In essence the game host is DECIDING something that should be determined by the pilot. I Would agree with you (in part) about moving your controls too rapid would make you plane plummet, but ONLY death at low altitude. If I had ample altitude during a "Rapid Move Event", then I would be able to pull out of a flat spin OR stall in time. Point being at least I could move my controls in order to TRY and recover or dodge an oncoming adversary. Certain death could be avoided where as control surfaces COULD be used and not rendered locked in the position. By not being able to at least MOVE your controls you are set up in a straight line shot for your opponent OR according to the position you were locked, you may be locked into the down position and then a compression event occurs. SO....I can't agree with you on most of what you said. Thanks for your comment though.
Please elaborAte on the flat spin. I'm curios as to how you do it.
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I guess this is my first post. I have a beef with the "punishment" that is rendered during gameplay by the "moving my controls so rapidly" control lockup message. I thought the goal for this game is realism in gameplay. If I were in a heated dogfight with an opponent in WW2, and my controls were to lock up for 4 to 5 seconds, then I am surely a dead man. If we are going to lay out punishment for moving a control too fast, then do that in the training arena. If I have to throw my airplane to the side quickly, then I don't want to be getting a death demerit for trying to move too quickly. I think that certain death by game host judgment is a bit out of place in the main arena. Train the pilots in the training arena not the main battle when a control lockup means certain death. Not cool.
Concerning the game, Hitech and other's have given an explanation for the message.
When I first began playing a year ago, I saw the message often whether in "combat" or just flying around. Subsequently after an explanation of the message,I reasonably accepted and adapted to avoid such actions(rapid stick stirring).
Concerning "training pilots in training arena not the main battle": Have you had a session(s) with an AH Trainer in the TA? I myself have not, but, I would believe that they would 'train'(instruct) well enough to negate actions that cause the message. Whether you have or not had a trainer, it would seem that concerning your "beef" that you believe in and/or want the ability to fly in any manner you wish without a consequence. Many inexperienced and experienced pilot's have found themselves in trouble when doing something beyond the flight characteristics and capability of an aircraft. Whether in combat or everyday flying that applies.
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In my experience it's usually when people are trying to make a shot that they lock up.
All the "stop stick stirring"responses don't help with that.
I wasn't trying to be obtuse. Just that the OP in this thread and in the previous thread on the same subject both mention specifically that they get the message when saddled up by an opponent, and the subsequent controll lock up gets them killed.
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I wasn't trying to be obtuse. Just that the OP in this thread and in the previous thread on the same subject both mention specifically that they get the message when saddled up by an opponent, and the subsequent controll lock up gets them killed.
I don't see where the OP specified that he was defensive prior to the control lock. Did I read it too fast? When I used to lock up my controls it never happened defensively. It was always from trying to grab a shot from a bad setup or save a stall. In any case, you can be defensive and lock your controls without stick stirring so I think it's more of an unwarranted accusation then a proper inference.
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If I were in a heated dogfight with an opponent in WW2, and my controls were to lock up for 4 to 5 seconds, then I am surely a dead man.
Should you have actually moved your controls in the manner that you're speaking would have rendered you a sitting duck, plummeting faster and faster towards earth in a lovely stall created by disturbing the airflow over your wings forcing a lack of lift situation.
If you want to generate the same result, grab a corsair, turn off stall limiter, get slow, yank back on the stick in a climbing turn, and rudder down hard.
There you go.
Regards,
Trig