Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: texasfighter on April 20, 2013, 10:30:19 AM
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As you all know, in the Late War Arena, over the last year (I'm told its actually longer than that), the Knights have been outnumbered by the Bish and the Rooks. AH wont release stats on map wins but we all know that the Bish and Rooks get almost all of the map wins. And yes I know that the Knights won one map this week (Tues morning I think), but that was one of the rare wins. Many good players over the last year have left the Knights out of frustration over this and gone to one of the other teams.
Granted the Rooks have better base taking coordination and strategy. The Bish horde. I'll avoid for this discussion the sportsmanship aspect of the horde for several reasons but primarily because it's just part of the game as the game exists. Just before I started this discussion, the Bish were taking down the Knights strats because they took a nearby base and they are launching waves of B17s with escort to level our strats. Although I hate it; its effective strategy.
I believe the LWA game benefits from balance. I also believe firmly that the ENY system doesn't do much to stop the in-balance. The Bish outnumbered the Knights just now by about 20 players but they still had a 262 and P51s as escorts. ENY is not stopping the out of balance condition.
Something needs to be done to bring the Knights back up to equal or close to equal contention with the Bish and Rooks. If not, just make it a two country game. Of course the problem with that is that most Knights will join the Rooks and then the Bish will be dominated.
I am well aware that there are many good Knight pilots who don't care about the map wins. They want to furball and have fun. That's fine because I am sure there are players just like that on the Rooks side and the Bish side.
The only idea I have to help address the Knights lack of good strategic play and low numbers is to have a website or forum devoted to the Knights. This would certainly help me as I do not fully understand all of the strategic issues. I am open to other ideas as well.
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Granted the Rooks have better base taking coordination and strategy.
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
I could continue but you get what I mean.
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I'd like ENY effects to happen faster than they do. Not sure it would affect numbers, but at least it would be noticeable.
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On avarage it takes 5 bish or 4 rooks to kill 1 Knight,so the numbers a fine,we like a target rich enviroment :banana:
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Numbers do make a difference for sure, but having been a Rook for a year and then flying Knight the last tour or so, I can tell you there isn't much of a concerted effort to "roll bases" on the Knight side that I've seen. That's generally the goal of the mission planner types for Rooks... just keep steamrolling bases. For Knights it seems, they will take a base or two and just kinda hold the front.
Makes no difference to me. Base taking and rolling bases can be fun but I'd rather fight. :)
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Oh those poor, poor Nits. If only they could horde like the others...
(http://i343.photobucket.com/albums/o460/caldera_08/nitsdonthorde.jpg:original) (http://s343.photobucket.com/user/caldera_08/media/nitsdonthorde.jpg.html)
That 1 green guy must be a mean old picker too.
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As you all know, in the Late War Arena, over the last year (I'm told its actually longer than that), the Knights have been outnumbered by the Bish and the Rooks.
:rofl
what time of day?
certainly not during prime time (8-11 pm eastern)
during prime time, bishops are severely outnumbered by both other sides.
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Yes, it is frustrating that Knights get rolled over so much, even if you're generally a furballer like me and only care a moderate amount about the greater war. I've looked at this very issue within the last month. The numbers issue is variable throughout a given day. The Knights do not have substantially different fluctuations wrt numerical odds than the other countries. I will say that of the three countries, there could be slightly more willingness to gang Knights since A. they prefer furballs and furballs don't go with hording B. They are less likely to take back what is taken. However this is always countered in the end since any country seeking to win the war must hit both its opponents.
The biggest issue for Knights is lack of coordination which really comes from a lack of will for coordination. When I looked at this last month I noticed that 8 of the top 13 fighter scores at that time were held by Knight players along with 22 of the top 50 overall. (Haven't checked this month) There was a similar trend in attack (don't remember the specific #s though). However when it came to bombing, Knights represented about 1/3 of the top. My take is that the Knights prefer the furball to the war and they're disproportionally good at it. In fact, some players realize that the war often times counters personal goals. (Kill the dar or drop my ord here and kill those low bombers?)
I like winning, I like coordination. From a philosophical perspective I am very much Rook, but my squad is knight and doggone it, it's fun. You have to be on for 2-3 hours to see any significant swing in the war and many of us simply don't have the chunk of time required to glean that satisfaction.
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I've been a Bish forever and I've seen both Knights and Rooks hording equally. Every single time I log on I have the chance to go fight against a horde. Every single time.
In fact I often log back off when my only choices are to fight against one or to join one and this is what many longer term players see as the degradation of the game.
If Knights have so many more top fighter pilots it's most likely because they make sure they have numerical superiority in a furball.
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It's the Knights that drive people away and not the hording done by the other countries. Countless times I've begged and pleaded for help none came. Oh maybe a guy jumped in a manned gun but that is about it. I use to make excuses for them for the longest time. Not any more. I'm trying to get my C.O. to go Rooks. He won't do it but I'm loyal to the guy.
I'm not sure about Bish but I flew Rooks for a while and had a great time. They will up under a capped base and duke it out. Just the way the knights used to. Not sure what happened there. I've been wanting to check how many Knights are in the air at any given time. My guess is most are sitting in manned guns or tanks. If that is what they prefer so be it.
For the record Rooks don't run that many missions. What happens, and you can see it if you pay attention, is that Knights appear apathetic. First a couple of Rooks up off a CV and no one defends. Then more up and no one defends. In a few minutes you have a horde of rooks upping to take the base. This happened at 36 the other day. The Vbase by HQ. One guy called for help for over an hour and only a couple came. Finally when a full herd of Knights showed many were not interested in taking the base. They wanted to farm the kills. Again if that's what they want to do so be it. Even with all those planes there bombing the GVs still a couple of GVs made it to the strats. Then they didn't want to capture it. Go figure.
Having said all of that I took a screen shot of a map earlier this week. What it showed was every Rook and every bish but maybe 2, one rook and one bish fighting the knights. I think that was on Tuesday. You're not going to beat those odds. It was the worst case of hording I have seen a very long time.
One thing becomes clear if you go Rooks. When Knights put together a mission it's not to take a base. It's to set up vulching. Many come into the base with no ordinance. It's a Joke among the Rooks.
I could go on but that is plenty if not too much.
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On avarage it takes 5 bish or 4 rooks to kill 1 Knight,so the numbers a fine,we like a target rich enviroment :banana:
'Twasn't the case when records were kept, don't think it has changed since. Back when you could look up country vs country kill/death it always went Rooks, Knights, Bishops. Rooks always (literally) had a positive K/D ratio against Knights and Bishops and Knights always (also literally) always had a positive K/DF ratio against Bishops.
For some reason HTC stopped publishing that data.... :P
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:rofl
I could not care less about winning the map :old:
This is the beauty of AH, if you don't want to take part in a certain aspect of it, ie GV's,Score or as you have stated Winning the map it will not affect what you want to do in game:)
Imagine if AH required you to fulfill every aspect of the game to play it :)
We have heard this before individuals not happy with game and wanting to change it because they assume other players think the same.
I have issues about game ie New Planes that in my opinion are poo!, guess what i am not forced to fly them :rofl
The new clouds in games are Awesome and we need more of them, oh dear we can't because some peoples PC's are poo :rofl
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Sometimes it seems like only jayro can snap the knights halfway to attention, only to hvw the biggest dweeb drop troops NOE :bhead on the concept of hordes, all you need is 5 262's a set of balls and presto! 6kills atleast and a
busted horde.( or people can pork, tis cheaper) and your the número UNO awesome peep!
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On avarage it takes 5 bish or 4 rooks to kill 1 Knight,so the numbers a fine,we like a target rich enviroment :banana:
Because the Muppets are flying Knights right now or what every country has the low number's .
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Knights are scrappers. Knights like to fight which is why they are generally always on defense, because that's where the hardest fight is. Whereas the bishops and rooks have a larger portion of their population doing offensive stuff. The Knights are probably the hardest to take a base from. But defense doesn't win the war, it just prolongs defeat, which is why the knights rarely win the war.
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<S> to the Knights....it all depends on time of day. Rooks are usually outnumbered by Bish and about on par with Knights during daytime hours. After about 4:00 PM central when the big boys start getting home from work the situation reverses.
Now if you're really tired of being outnumbered, why don't you guys help us out with the horde by attacking Bish when they start swarming with numbers?
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U smoking crack join bish side when its prime time :furious
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It's the Knights that drive people away and not the hording done by the other countries. Countless times I've begged and pleaded for help none came. Oh maybe a guy jumped in a manned gun but that is about it. I use to make excuses for them for the longest time. Not any more. I'm trying to get my C.O. to go Rooks. He won't do it but I'm loyal to the guy.
I'm not sure about Bish but I flew Rooks for a while and had a great time. They will up under a capped base and duke it out. Just the way the knights used to. Not sure what happened there. I've been wanting to check how many Knights are in the air at any given time. My guess is most are sitting in manned guns or tanks. If that is what they prefer so be it.
For the record Rooks don't run that many missions. What happens, and you can see it if you pay attention, is that Knights appear apathetic. First a couple of Rooks up off a CV and no one defends. Then more up and no one defends. In a few minutes you have a horde of rooks upping to take the base. This happened at 36 the other day. The Vbase by HQ. One guy called for help for over an hour and only a couple came. Finally when a full herd of Knights showed many were not interested in taking the base. They wanted to farm the kills. Again if that's what they want to do so be it. Even with all those planes there bombing the GVs still a couple of GVs made it to the strats. Then they didn't want to capture it. Go figure.
Having said all of that I took a screen shot of a map earlier this week. What it showed was every Rook and every bish but maybe 2, one rook and one bish fighting the knights. I think that was on Tuesday. You're not going to beat those odds. It was the worst case of hording I have seen a very long time.
One thing becomes clear if you go Rooks. When Knights put together a mission it's not to take a base. It's to set up vulching. Many come into the base with no ordinance. It's a Joke among the Rooks.
I could go on but that is plenty if not too much.
Knight missions are rare. FBbob is the only guy making missions, and he seems to roll in late in the day.
The other mission is a call to runway by Jayro. This results in masses of lemmings and vets all in their own ride. Many just farm kills because of the free nature of the horde. The knights have become accustomed to Jayros mission, like having sex with five women on a Tahiti beach as they feed you steak and get you Tigers tickets; once you had it that good you cant go back work.
Worst of all is that these two guys that run missions rarely if ever help each other, there is no give and take for a common goal. Bob has some respect, but I've seen Jayro call for his horde mission right in the middle of another guys attempt at starting a pickup mission.
This situation has been going on for years.
Still, good fun to be had everyday. and sometimes the knights get rolling downhill sometimes uphill. whatever :cheers:
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Rook k/d is driven by a reputation of astronaut inspiration. Put them co-alt with an equal number of Knights and I'd pick Knits to win. Knights generally do not care about the war. I care in principle, but often not in practice. Perks are simply not an incentive, I'm sitting on about 4k fighter perks and still flying a 25ENY jug more than anything else.
-I've built several missions over the past few years. Only about 10% lifted due to lack of recruits. (Not the type to throw all caps out for 20 min)
-The war has no meaning other than "getting to a better map." It is not uncommon for some knights to discourage the defense of bases for this purpose.
-In the end your own stats/achievements are persistent. There is no incentive much less history viewable online showing who's winning the wars and what they got out of it. Simply show the results and perhaps more people would be shamed into caring.
-Fostering unique country identity is a good thing imho.
-Tweaking the GUI for each country to differentiate them further would be nice.
-I support the 12hr side change rule.
-I believe that new subscribers should be assigned countries at random.
-I'd like to see a category called "strategic" perk points implemented for things such as resupping fields. (Could be spent on any other perk category or transferred to newbs in order to ease the learning curve)
Many more thoughts but g2g. :salute
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:rofl
I could not care less about winning the map :old:
This is the beauty of AH, if you don't want to take part in a certain aspect of it, ie GV's,Score or as you have stated Winning the map it will not affect what you want to do in game:)
Imagine if AH required you to fulfill every aspect of the game to play it :)
We have heard this before individuals not happy with game and wanting to change it because they assume other players think the same.
I have issues about game ie New Planes that in my opinion are poo!, guess what i am not forced to fly them :rofl
The new clouds in games are Awesome and we need more of them, oh dear we can't because some peoples PC's are poo :rofl
+1 zack you are the best :aok
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It seems to me that the Knights have a fitting name. Much more honor and prestige-centric than the other two countries. More of the "better, faster, stronger" mentality as well, as opposed to an external reward-driven mentality.
neither is better per se, they just do different things.
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It seems to me that the Knights have a fitting name. Much more honor and prestige-centric than the other two countries. More of the "better, faster, stronger" mentality as well, as opposed to an external reward-driven mentality.
neither is better per se, they just do different things.
Yet they always had a lower K/D ratio against the Rooks. When I say "always" I mean it too, 100% of the time.
That said, the only two sides I jump between are the Rooks and Knights. I've tried Bishops once...
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The notion that even numbers would make better game play is an unproven assumption.
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Wow! There are more whines in this thread than ever recorded previously!
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'Twasn't the case when records were kept, don't think it has changed since. Back when you could look up country vs country kill/death it always went Rooks, Knights, Bishops. Rooks always (literally) had a positive K/D ratio against Knights and Bishops and Knights always (also literally) always had a positive K/DF ratio against Bishops.
Yup, always had been that way.
And exactly that's why I thought (and still thinking) there could be some different reason behind it that just difference in chesspiece skills and playing styles. With all that people coming and going through all these years, and all theres hording squads, mega-squads and "alliances" appearing and disappearing again on every of the 3 countries, one really could have expected more variation. I was wondering if it could had been a result of disparate distribution of new players.
But I hadn't the tools at that time to check it out.
For some reason HTC stopped publishing that data.... :P
The reason given by Skuzzy was along the lines of "getting away from the country centric focus". I could look it up if required.
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Nits are just simply lazy.
Live for the furball & fly to the closest enemy base to there own.
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<S> to the Knights....it all depends on time of day. Rooks are usually outnumbered by Bish and about on par with Knights during daytime hours. After about 4:00 PM central when the big boys start getting home from work the situation reverses.
Now if you're really tired of being outnumbered, why don't you guys help us out with the horde by attacking Bish when they start swarming with numbers?
Dan if you see a bunch of us Pigs on give Waystin a shout, joi nt ops against the Bish would be a blast.... We could do a cease fire for a few hours.. You guys are always fun.
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This game is set so that countries do get to hoard some of the time but how the hell else do you think 70% of the players will ever get a kill :headscratch: Its the same as ack being a time out pen for players in erm distress
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Who cares about the war? really. I certainly stopped after my first few months playing. Base capture and the war is there to create furballs. Whether you are Knit,Bish,Rook makes no difference, only difference is some days the furballs are better at one country over the others hence I change countries often.
<S>...-Gixer
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Gixer has a point. The fights are just better on some countries at times. Different players log at different times and fly for different contries, some bases just suck for fighting at, and sometimes one side is being boring and hording.
The asymetrical nature of the maps doesn't help, though its not something I would like to see changed. With the exception of the Luzon (I think...), since whoever lucks out and gets stuck on the East side of the map effectively only fights one country after a point, regardless of desires.
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Who cares about the war? really. I certainly stopped after my first few months playing. Base capture and the war is there to create furballs. Whether you are Knit,Bish,Rook makes no difference, only difference is some days the furballs are better at one country over the others hence I change countries often.
<S>...-Gixer
I've been heading straight into the furballs at low alt since coming back from a 2 month LOA. It's been a fun! I figured my fighter skills could use a touch up. It's pretty awesome flying into a horde and getting a few kills before being overwhelmed by numbers and then upping again and trying to do a bit better. In this respect I just had much more fun doing it as a Rook. It's good to know others will jump right into the fray with you.
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the Knights have been outnumbered by the Bish and the Rooks.
Frankly, that is true most of the time. In the past, I used to switch to the lowest country but now, I can generally stick to the Knights since they tend to stay low overall.
In response to Snuggie's picture, I'd like to see 'Zone ENY' implemented for just that reason.
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Frankly, that is true most of the time. In the past, I used to switch to the lowest country but now, I can generally stick to the Knights since they tend to stay low overall.
not this time of day.. in fact right now, they outnumber the each other side by 30
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I have been a Bish since day one. It does seem that we win a bit more than our fair share if maps, but maybe that's a bit of myopia from only looking from one side.
I do know that more often than not when I log in at 6:00-7:30am CDT, I hear all the Bishes complaining about ENY because we have numerical superiority. We are often unable to up P51Ds or Lancasters for long periods of time in the morning. So in that respect, ENY is doing its job, I guess.
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The issue doesn't seem to be the numbers, it's the groups. To me it sounds like the following: a new player joins and is thrown into a random country. He flies with them a while and two things will happen.
a) His fighting style will begin to reflect the dominint fighting style of his country.
b) He moves to a country that fits his fighting style.
My squad has flown for the nits (bish as well but that was long before I joined). The nits seem to enjoy the furball, not really too focused on objectives. The can be coaxed into an objective if a clear mission is put together with someone who has a good rep.
So instead of trying to balance the numbers, balance the skill. Maybe a few squads from each country can be encouraged to switch sides for a tour or two. My squad would love to have a few nits fly with them on a mission because of the typical style of base taking. The could tag along until we reach the objective, then they could break and to what they do best... cap the field.
As for the bish cross overs... we could just send them to a base as a distraction or something...
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Frankly, that is true most of the time. In the past, I used to switch to the lowest country but now, I can generally stick to the Knights since they tend to stay low overall.
In response to Snuggie's picture, I'd like to see 'Zone ENY' implemented for just that reason.
Del, we've been preaching zone ENY for years. Doubt that will ever happen.
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I think a lot of what's been said about styles of play on various sides rings true - at least insofar as descriptions of how Knights tend to play (never having flown Bish or Rook, I can't comment on their play directly). For me, as a buff pilot, I just can't take MA play too seriously (pin-pointing nearly every damned thing - sheesh!) and so I tend, not unreasonably, to fly sorties I am likely to enjoy, which means long strat raids (which don't seem to have any great effect on the overall game, despite what one would expect hitting strats to accomplish), or flattening towns, or ocean patrol to find enemy Cvs so others can kill them (which is highly effective but completely unrewarded in-game). I've also flown LW in scenario games (several years ago) for most of my virtual combat career, so fighting against the odds feels comfy to me. Do I care that us Knights lose a lot? Yes. Do I care more about having fun sorties as a buffer? Much more, yes. That said, whether or not a better game balance between buffs and fighters would affect which of the three sides got stomped on most is debatable.
<S> Esme
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There are no different styles or strategy to the countries. The differences are purely due to a few individuals or squadrons that organize missions and swarm bases. If your playing hours coincide with some bish large squadron or missions organizers, then it will seem like the bish have some strategy and capture bases all the time. Two hours later, or on a different day of the week, the knight base-taking squadron or mission planners log in and shift the land-grab towards the knight advantage.
Even more, it seems like much of the base taking is done from the ground these days, so furballers, bombers, tool shedders make much less of a difference than a few GV groups that are focused on taking bases. GVs are invisible on the map, so you have no idea what is going on with the global ground war unless you start spawning in GVs in various locations.
See my suggestion for GV sector bars:
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,346273.0.html
I much prefer to be on the receiving end of the hords - at least there are some reds to shoot at. We at ~loose deuce~ love the TWC guys <S>. The kill messages spam that we generate after their missions make us dweebs look good. When they or their likes are not on, we look with envy at the red bars between the bish & knits while we race 15 other rooks to kill the single bandit that entered our airspace.
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these discussions usually come about when a country loyal player feels like everything is unfair. If you take a chill pill and swap teams for a bit you'll soon see everyone is pretty much the same.
Last time we were on Knights I was quite happy with the responses and base captures we managed to pull off during the day. This was just me and a few others getting some teamwork going from random countrymen. Quality over quantity will win every time and I would suggest that if you really like capturing stuff or winning the war you find yourself a bunch of like minded players to enjoy it with.
AH is a multiplayer game and your not going to be able to change it alone.
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Last time we were on Knights I was quite happy with the responses and base captures we managed to pull off during the day. This was just me and a few others getting some teamwork going from random countrymen. Quality over quantity will win every time and I would suggest that if you really like capturing stuff or winning the war you find yourself a bunch of like minded players to enjoy it with.
Lolz....
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Quality over quantity will win every time
Joseph Stalin said:
Quantity has a quality all its own.
The results on the Eastern Front in WWII suggest your claim is not entirely accurate.
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I have been bouncing around doing an OE since the last few months of last year...just following the lower numbers..thinking this would be a safe bet to find big red dars... this has not been true for many jumps...the low numbers are making the biggest dar..
There is a definite Ebb and flo of numbers change... and this is usually about a 2-3 hr roll..... so if you jump on at the same time every day it may seem like one side is always out numbered.... try jump on an hour before or after your normal game play time if you can... you might soon see a difference.
During my OE it is with out surprise that I found all sides horde.... it is just how they do it... rook and bish are very similar when it comes to hording however most ( not all) rook have a little style to it... not just ram, bam, slam ...
knits are slow moving...they take time to consider the options...many times they decide when it is too late.... but they too horde...and to be honest...when they do they are the worst type of horder.... they bite, scratch, pull hair, drop any and every structure and just plan and simply mob the place and they are in a constant roll... especially on a CV.. I never knew cv's could hold that many planes :lol :lol :lol...
The biggest difference I think between the sides is the number of leaders...not armchair generals...just the guys who have a following, the ones who say hey I'm doing this come and get some with me...... Knits have less of these people which is why they seem to be always getting hammered...but get the few guys on and that all changes and the knits roll harder and faster than both rook and bish combined..
This is just things I have noticed ... and may not be what others notice...but then it would be a boring world if everyone saw it the same way..
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There are no different styles or strategy to the countries.
Quoted for truth
This thread is pretty hilarious in places
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I sense a disturbance in the Schwarz.
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I sense a disturbance in the Schwarz.
It's fallen and it can't get up? It needs a life alert!
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A few years ago, POTW being a large enough squad, we started noticing some common traits by the countries and our own across the various daily time periods.
1. - When the bish and rook hoard, pretty much they send the whole country to wipe out a single target.
2. - When the knights run missions, that accounts for the majority of players logged on to play air war not playing furball. The rest are somewhere in GV playing ground furball.
3. - If you want to take bases as a knight, have a big enough squad that you don't have to rely on the knights. It's nice if they show up to vulch. Makes the enemy believe it's a hoard instead of 12 guys taking a base with 5 or 6 guys hanging around to vulch.
4. - The most common statements you hear on range during what looks like knights trying to take a base are:
a. - Are you playing with this base or trying to take it?
b. - You know, if you deAck, it's easier to vulch. OOuch!! That had to hurt. See ya when you get back.
c. - Did anyone bring bombs?
d. - Did anyone bring troops? I just got the town white flagged........
e. - Can you tanks kill that wirbel patch so we can kill those fighters trying to kill the troops?
f. - Did anyone bring bombs for the GVs at the town?
g. - Did anyone look for the resupply M3 that got town ack back up?
h. - You hear this more often recently: Did you guys leave the ack up just so you could vulch uppers?
Knights seem a bit more interested in furballing land&air and vulching than capturing fields or winning the map. Which makes you have to accept that Check6's should be appreciated not expected. And you will wind up being ignored and on your own if you think anyone wants to rescue your kester once you are the only guy on the deck. But, everyone will show up to help kill your con even if he's missing half a wing and trailing smoke.
A few years ago POTW went on a country jumping vacation from the knights. Bish had your back because they were like rabbid piranha about killing the red guys. Even your red guy. But, they did it together. The rooks worked together and supported each other. We got lots of Check6. Both thought the knights were a joke because most of the time they never got it together to do anything. But, you didn't let the knights have an equal footing air to air. The best thing knights do is kick your kester when they can get an even break in the air.
If a couple of rook squads came over to the knights and ran the kinds of missions rooks are good at. They would be able to leverage the knights propensity for killing everything in the air while their squad rolled bases. Messiah runs his own fighter pickup mission concurrent with Free Bird missions specifically to take advantage of being able to pick up air to air kills. Doesn't hurt that he loads the P47's with bombs for good measure. Then he and his mission kills everything that tries to fly.
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Knights will only roll bases for beer, booze and elf hookers........ not necessarily in that order :noid
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Lol to how much truth there is in the two most previous posts.
Tex there was a point I was rather frustrated about it as well. I once thought about creating a very similar thread. However, I have played at almost all times of the day/night and I've noticed many different patterns, none pertain to Knights. There is no universal statement that covers how things usually are with Knights, even if it's at the same time the next day. There just isn't an actual pattern to us, and thus I say we are free spirits. I dare say this knowing what will come, but Knights (for the most part) don't follow each other around looking for the next base to take or what is needed to win the war. We seem to do whatever we want whenever. At first this bothered me, I'm way past that now. The why is because I don't care all that much about perks anymore. I rarely find a situation where I want to fly 262's and 163's are just too hands on watching the fuel for me to do very often (no I don't want their fuel increased.) Thus, what does winning a map really matter? That I think you'll find is the answer. I started game, my 2nd go around, as Bish, then Rook, and have settled in as a Knight, basically for personal/personality reasons. I have a good understanding of what it's like on the other sides and imo for those of you who think it's the same on the Knights, you're just flat wrong.
IMO most Knights aren't interested in winning the map, 'tis what it is, most are able to earn the perks they want without the win. After most Knight wins I usually hear, "oh, nice I got some perks," almost like they didn't expect it. Nearly all pc games I've played over my life are strategy game and winning is the goal, but being a Knight is just a different beast. I've also found most resent the structured horde, and even when we do it's rare for you to hear "ok you've got the vh, john you get fh1..." More often you hear "what needs to be hit?" It's a fluid situation and not by accident, it adds life (took me awhile to see this) & fun instead of routine.
I'll bet you can count in one day the same amount of Bish missions as you can in one month for Knights. Just the way it is.
You know you can always count some of us in for a base take when we're free and you know some just won't be interested.
The eny in its current state won't stop the rolling of bases, the 38G/T34-76 will always be there with enough to get the job done.
:salute
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A few years ago, POTW being a large enough squad, we started noticing some common traits by the countries and our own across the various daily time periods.
1. - When the bish and rook hoard, pretty much they send the whole country to wipe out a single target.
2. - When the knights run missions, that accounts for the majority of players logged on to play air war not playing furball. The rest are somewhere in GV playing ground furball.
3. - If you want to take bases as a knight, have a big enough squad that you don't have to rely on the knights. It's nice if they show up to vulch. Makes the enemy believe it's a hoard instead of 12 guys taking a base with 5 or 6 guys hanging around to vulch.
4. - The most common statements you hear on range during what looks like knights trying to take a base are:
a. - Are you playing with this base or trying to take it?
b. - You know, if you deAck, it's easier to vulch. OOuch!! That had to hurt. See ya when you get back.
c. - Did anyone bring bombs?
d. - Did anyone bring troops? I just got the town white flagged........
e. - Can you tanks kill that wirbel patch so we can kill those fighters trying to kill the troops?
f. - Did anyone bring bombs for the GVs at the town?
g. - Did anyone look for the resupply M3 that got town ack back up?
h. - You hear this more often recently: Did you guys leave the ack up just so you could vulch uppers?
Knights seem a bit more interested in furballing land&air and vulching than capturing fields or winning the map. Which makes you have to accept that Check6's should be appreciated not expected. And you will wind up being ignored and on your own if you think anyone wants to rescue your kester once you are the only guy on the deck. But, everyone will show up to help kill your con even if he's missing half a wing and trailing smoke.
A few years ago POTW went on a country jumping vacation from the knights. Bish had your back because they were like rabbid piranha about killing the red guys. Even your red guy. But, they did it together. The rooks worked together and supported each other. We got lots of Check6. Both thought the knights were a joke because most of the time they never got it together to do anything. But, you didn't let the knights have an equal footing air to air. The best thing knights do is kick your kester when they can get an even break in the air.
If a couple of rook squads came over to the knights and ran the kinds of missions rooks are good at. They would be able to leverage the knights propensity for killing everything in the air while their squad rolled bases. Messiah runs his own fighter pickup mission concurrent with Free Bird missions specifically to take advantage of being able to pick up air to air kills. Doesn't hurt that he loads the P47's with bombs for good measure. Then he and his mission kills everything that tries to fly.
This is pretty spot on. I went to 65 last night only because I thought Walleye would be there and it was an actual base capture mission. I flew in from a ways off to get there and noticed a nice herd of Knights going that way. When I arrived the town was still mostly up. I dropped 2 eggs on a fighter hanger, destroyed it, and then fired my rockets at the town. Then with all the knights there no one was working the town. Same old knights. So foolishly I worked the town with my F6 50 cals. Finally the town turns white when one other guy joins me. But then it starts popping because Knights took so long to take it down. I got hoed and didn't bother returning afterwards. There was enough people there to have WF the town in less than a minute...........if they had eggs.
Even in Jayro's missions only a very few come with eggs. Most hope they can use the couple who do have eggs as bait.
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Most hope they can use the couple who do have eggs as bait.
<---Guilty
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Yeah right Messiah. You usually load out your FB Wonder Bra mission Jug's to the teeth and flatten the town before killing all the red guys. You do make em look good after the capture though........ :rofl
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<---Guilty
yep... between you and razor .... you guys get me very frustrated... make me kick puppies and the like :lol :lol :lol
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Rook k/d is driven by a reputation of astronaut inspiration. Put them co-alt with an equal number of Knights and I'd pick Knits to win. Knights generally do not care about the war. I care in principle, but often not in practice. Perks are simply not an incentive, I'm sitting on about 4k fighter perks and still flying a 25ENY jug more than anything else.
-I've built several missions over the past few years. Only about 10% lifted due to lack of recruits. (Not the type to throw all caps out for 20 min)
-The war has no meaning other than "getting to a better map."(when will that ever happen :bhead) It is not uncommon for some knights to discourage the defense of bases for this purpose.
-In the end your own stats/achievements are persistent. There is no incentive much less history viewable online showing who's winning the wars and what they got out of it. Simply show the results and perhaps more people would be shamed into caring.
-Fostering unique country identity is a good thing imho.
-Tweaking the GUI for each country to differentiate them further would be nice.
-I support the 12hr side change rule.
-I believe that new subscribers should be assigned countries at random.
-I'd like to see a category called "strategic" perk points implemented for things such as resupping fields. (Could be spent on any other perk category or transferred to newbs in order to ease the learning curve)
Many more thoughts but g2g. :salute
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:rofl
what time of day?
certainly not during prime time (8-11 pm eastern)
during prime time, bishops are severely outnumbered by both other sides.
And, I thought that even if I had 1,000 full lietimes I would never agree with kvou on anything......well the above quote is true.
I usually sign on in USA prime time just in time for the "double gang-bang the bishops night....every night.
Which tells me that if it takes 200+ people double teaming 100 then you know who the quality side really is....with crickets chirping on the knight/rook front. :devil
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Will there eventually be a huge garage sale as the result of all this "hoarding"?
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I guess one could say we're hoarding perks, some more than others...
As to the country imbalances, different times mean different situations. Early-mid evenings most weeknights I tend to see two large red bardars on the Bish fronts. As time progresses, it gradually tapers off. Around 11:00-12:00 EST or so and later the Bish are usually trying to head the other way, sometimes with resistance sometimes without.
Wiley.
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So basically things are the same as they were when I started, I'm just in the Knit side of things these days.
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On avarage it takes 5 bish or 4 rooks to kill 1 Knight,so the numbers a fine,we like a target rich enviroment :banana:
4 kills per sorty here, we are fine lol
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4 kills per sorty here, we are fine lol
Gosh really ? Gollygee..................... ..awesomesauce, I could never do that.
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Like all the descriptions of how one side is different from another. We are all the same pathetic fools spending way too much time flying a cartoon airplane around a make believe arena, and thinking we are really doing something realistic.
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The "Bleeding Edge" of someone's fire is being danced on.
It could take another 10 pages before anyone falls in at this rate. We is slowly doooooommmmmmmedddd.......
Rule# 666 - No dancing on the bleeding edge of someone's fire.
It's the obvious tipping point where a post will start slowly going south to collect a ModLock. Unlike the obvious Rule# 007 "Get Out the Lawn Chairs and Beer" flaming fire works self destruct ModLock.
At least this way Skuzzy or HiTech gets to finish their morning coffee before locking the thread.
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Like all the descriptions of how one side is different from another. We are all the same pathetic fools spending way too much time flying a cartoon airplane around a make believe arena, and thinking we are really doing something realistic.
:headscratch: wait whaaaat?
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Knights will close a base to get to the sheep. Advertise extra large wellies, kilts (no zipper sound to alert said sheep), and Playsheep magazines in buff turrets, and nits will join a mission. At least that's how FBBob does it. I think Jayro promises prettier sheep in the O'Club after his heavy strike missions. :x
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I don't know about air battles as I mainly GV.
On the ground in GVs I find the Knights as worthy adversaries and quick to defend and have lost many a GV to both Knight GVs and aircraft. On a good GV map it's never hard to find a willing Knight or Bishop to engage.
:cheers: :salute. To all enemies :rock
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After discussing this thread with my squad, it was pointed out that each of the three countries is like a faction during WWII.
The Bishops are like the Germans with blitzkrieg. Storm as many bases as possible before the enemy is weak. Usually this starts around 14:15 ET, when the middle school lets out.
The Rooks are like the Americans. Prefer not to cooperate much until the Bishops take a map right out from under them. The sole purpose of the next three hours is then to horde the Bishops out of existence. This all usually happens after the Bishops bed time.
The Knights are like the French... they fight for a while then give up.
And for those of you who don't know what WWII was like, here it is in a nutshell:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-axJTzj0VU
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The Bishops are like the Germans with blitzkrieg.
More like a Chinese human wave attack. ;)
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Today is a very instructive day in the LWA to the countries being out of balance. The Bish during the night took bases right down to A30 which is next to the Knights strats. Gee, do you think all the Knights got together to take A30 back? Oh no. Maybe 5 tried this morning while I was hiding troops in an M3 nearby. Bish had a cv there and upped about 4 fighters and stopped that effort cold. So all day long the Bish are perk farming. Cant blame the Bish ... they are just taking advantage of the game the way HiTech has designed it.
Out of balance. Going to stay that way because apparently HiTech likes it that way.
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Today is a very instructive day in the LWA to the countries being out of balance. The Bish during the night took bases right down to A30 which is next to the Knights strats. Gee, do you think all the Knights got together to take A30 back? Oh no. Maybe 5 tried this morning while I was hiding troops in an M3 nearby. Bish had a cv there and upped about 4 fighters and stopped that effort cold. So all day long the Bish are perk farming. Cant blame the Bish ... they are just taking advantage of the game the way HiTech has designed it.
Out of balance. Going to stay that way because apparently HiTech likes it that way.
:cry
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After discussing this thread with my squad, it was pointed out that each of the three countries is like a faction during WWII.
The Bishops are like the Germans with blitzkrieg. Storm as many bases as possible before the enemy is weak. Usually this starts around 14:15 ET, when the middle school lets out.
The Rooks are like the Americans. Prefer not to cooperate much until the Bishops take a map right out from under them. The sole purpose of the next three hours is then to horde the Bishops out of existence. This all usually happens after the Bishops bed time.
The Knights are like the French... they fight for a while then give up.
I would say rooks are more like the Germans precious k/d's above the cause but can attack swiftly when they get going. The Bish would be the Soviets with all their conscripted lemmings, overwhelming numbers rather than precision skilled strikes. to qualify for blitzkreig status you would need to plan to capture 3 bases in one mission and not just throw everyone at one target.
The knights could be British/french a plucky underdog that can bite but has seen better days and will roll over if you tickle their bellies.
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Today is a very instructive day in the LWA to the countries being out of balance. The Bish during the night took bases right down to A30 which is next to the Knights strats. Gee, do you think all the Knights got together to take A30 back? Oh no. Maybe 5 tried this morning while I was hiding troops in an M3 nearby. Bish had a cv there and upped about 4 fighters and stopped that effort cold. So all day long the Bish are perk farming. Cant blame the Bish ... they are just taking advantage of the game the way HiTech has designed it.
Out of balance. Going to stay that way because apparently HiTech likes it that way.
doesn't sound like country imbalance, sounds like they don't care.
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All you need is for a few decent squads, that fly during the skewed number hours, to switch countries.
The onus isn't on HTC, it's on the players.
But hey, CHESS PIECE LOYALTY FO LIFEZ!
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All you need is for a few decent squads, that fly during the skewed number hours, to switch countries.
The onus isn't on HTC, it's on the players.
But hey, CHESS PIECE LOYALTY FO LIFEZ!
They're afraid of being the 4th member of this photo:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/56/JeffersonDavisBenedictArnoldTreasonCartoon1865.jpg/751px-JeffersonDavisBenedictArnoldTreasonCartoon1865.jpg)
:D
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Knights will only roll bases for beer, booze and elf hookers........ not necessarily in that order
:rofl :aok
Margaritas and tall green-eyed redheads usually works for me :D
LtngRydr :old:
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:rofl :aok
Margaritas and tall green-eyed redheads usually works for me :D
LtngRydr :old:
I'll take the short ones you don't want ;)
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The countries aren't out of balance, the knits are just bad. I think it took over 12 hours for the knits to finally take back A30 next to the strats. Bish took it in the morning, or so I've heard, but knits didn't take it back until nighttime. Meanwhile, random greens are calling out alerts here and there. That's all well and good, but who cares about some obscure vbase when our ords, ammo, and radar are at 2%. I'll tell ya who, the knits.
Which brings up another point, capturable bases less than a sector away from the strats=poor map design. Well maybe it isn't poor map design, because you'd think that such a thing would encourage combat...
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Pizza map seriously has had no thought put into the strats and uncapturables. Needs a fix, but asking HTC for that to be fixed would be like -> :bhead
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The countries aren't out of balance, the knits are just bad. I think it took over 12 hours for the knits to finally take back A30 next to the strats. Bish took it in the morning, or so I've heard, but knits didn't take it back until nighttime. Meanwhile, random greens are calling out alerts here and there. That's all well and good, but who cares about some obscure vbase when our ords, ammo, and radar are at 2%. I'll tell ya who, the knits.
Which brings up another point, capturable bases less than a sector away from the strats=poor map design. Well maybe it isn't poor map design, because you'd think that such a thing would encourage combat...
Nits put up some of the best defense, per player. Probably because they have been forced to get good at it due to getting horded night after night.