Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: seano on April 24, 2013, 04:29:22 AM

Title: Crosswinds on landing
Post by: seano on April 24, 2013, 04:29:22 AM
how about a nice above ground crosswind, say 50 feet above ground so that it just makes you have to correct with rudder while landing or taking off? but low enough where it wont be an advantage to fly faster downwind.
Title: Re: Crosswinds on landing
Post by: matt on April 24, 2013, 10:25:58 AM
Outta be fun landing with mountains in each end of the runways.
Title: Re: Crosswinds on landing
Post by: kvuo75 on April 24, 2013, 12:34:01 PM
if it's above 50 feet, why would you need rudder?

Title: Re: Crosswinds on landing
Post by: Pand on April 24, 2013, 12:49:59 PM
I would say modify this to have actual wind based off of terrain and wind layers, rather than just the entire map at X altitude coming from a certain direction.
Title: Re: Crosswinds on landing
Post by: Pand on April 24, 2013, 12:52:32 PM
Example--- current winds at 2500 and 10000 feet... considerably different:
(http://s16.postimg.org/f01lesjit/us_windsaloft_25_12.gif)
(http://s21.postimg.org/50ryd4tif/us_windsaloft_100_12.gif)
Title: Re: Crosswinds on landing
Post by: tunnelrat on April 24, 2013, 01:19:22 PM
HiTech said that wind cannot be set lower than the highest airfield.

Title: Re: Crosswinds on landing
Post by: Pand on April 24, 2013, 02:28:20 PM
HiTech said that wind cannot be set lower than the highest airfield.


Disappointing.
Title: Re: Crosswinds on landing
Post by: ImADot on April 24, 2013, 04:05:05 PM
HiTech said that wind cannot be set lower than the highest airfield.

Technically, I'm pretty sure it can...but they won't do it in the Mains (and rightfully so).
Title: Re: Crosswinds on landing
Post by: hitech on April 24, 2013, 04:09:01 PM
Technically, I'm pretty sure it can...but they won't do it in the Mains (and rightfully so).

Correct.

HiTech
Title: Re: Crosswinds on landing
Post by: Babalonian on April 24, 2013, 05:24:48 PM
30mph crosswind for a storch on the runway might make for an interesting takeoff
Title: Re: Crosswinds on landing
Post by: Zacherof on April 24, 2013, 06:44:30 PM
(http://i1295.photobucket.com/albums/b629/Zacherof/no-meme_zpse78c0709.jpg) (http://s1295.photobucket.com/user/Zacherof/media/no-meme_zpse78c0709.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Crosswinds on landing
Post by: danny76 on April 25, 2013, 04:41:30 AM
30mph crosswind for a storch on the runway might make for an interesting takeoff

Simply turn into the wind and hey presto VTOL :banana:
Title: Re: Crosswinds on landing
Post by: colmbo on April 25, 2013, 05:49:34 AM
Surface wind fine as long as the aircraft/ground interface is realistic.  So far I have not found a sim that comes close.

If surface winds are enabled (assuming it works correctly) then make the dirt soft enough to cause nose over or gear stuck/collapse if you run off the pavement and disable auto-takeoff.

I love landing with a good crosswind.
Title: Re: Crosswinds on landing
Post by: earl1937 on April 25, 2013, 07:49:29 AM
how about a nice above ground crosswind, say 50 feet above ground so that it just makes you have to correct with rudder while landing or taking off? but low enough where it wont be an advantage to fly faster downwind.
:airplane: I to would love to see wind as it is in the real world, but, we have to remember, a lot of these guys who fly and pay the bills, have no clue how to handle wind or to be able to fly in it. I see people landing all the time, who are experienced AH players, which land with gear up all the time, because they don't have a clue how to fly the aircraft at slow speeds, know nothing about stall speeds, x-wind controlling and etc.
No, Hi Tech is doing it right, because a lot of people would not finish their two week trail before moving on to something they could do!
If they did introduce wind into the landing patterns, all of a sudden, guys would have to consult the wind direction,( right now there are no wind indicators on fields), plan to land on the runway into the wind or as close as possible to into the wind, so it would just add something else for people to have to consider, rather than kick the tires, light the fires, leap into the blue and seek their glory in the skies of AH! They would then have to begin to think like a real pilot, instead playing a video game!
Title: Re: Crosswinds on landing
Post by: hitech on April 25, 2013, 09:09:57 AM
Surface wind fine as long as the aircraft/ground interface is realistic.  So far I have not found a sim that comes close.

If surface winds are enabled (assuming it works correctly) then make the dirt soft enough to cause nose over or gear stuck/collapse if you run off the pavement and disable auto-takeoff.

I love landing with a good crosswind.

I hate those days when in the RV on final I have full left rudder applied right bank, and the nose is just lined up with the runway. And you say to yourself. This wind better die close to the ground, or we are not landing here today.

But normally the wind drops just enough to be able to easy off the rudder before the 1 wheel landing and then have enough to keep it straight. I always need to prep the passenger that we will be on one wheel for the landing and run out. Other wise they seem to get a tad nervous.

HiTech


Title: Re: Crosswinds on landing
Post by: ImADot on April 25, 2013, 09:51:46 AM
You guys want the non-pilot gaming dudes to try this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfB4xyM7tMw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfB4xyM7tMw)

 :joystick:  :airplane:

 :D
Title: Re: Crosswinds on landing
Post by: colmbo on April 25, 2013, 11:54:55 AM
I hate those days when in the RV on final I have full left rudder applied right bank, and the nose is just lined up with the runway. And you say to yourself. This wind better die close to the ground, or we are not landing here today.

Or coming down final in the B-24 with 20 inches on one side and 24-25 inches on the the other side (leaves you with lots of rudder) while cussing the folks that closed the long runway (into the 28G35 wind) at Lake Charles.  The guy flying the B-17 that day was all squeaky voiced after he landed.   :devil
Title: Re: Crosswinds on landing
Post by: ink on April 25, 2013, 12:30:06 PM
:airplane: I to would love to see wind as it is in the real world, but, we have to remember, a lot of these guys who fly and pay the bills, have no clue how to handle wind or to be able to fly in it. I see people landing all the time, who are experienced AH players, which land with gear up all the time, because they don't have a clue how to fly the aircraft at slow speeds, know nothing about stall speeds, x-wind controlling and etc.
No, Hi Tech is doing it right, because a lot of people would not finish their two week trail before moving on to something they could do!
If they did introduce wind into the landing patterns, all of a sudden, guys would have to consult the wind direction,( right now there are no wind indicators on fields), plan to land on the runway into the wind or as close as possible to into the wind, so it would just add something else for people to have to consider, rather than kick the tires, light the fires, leap into the blue and seek their glory in the skies of AH! They would then have to begin to think like a real pilot, instead playing a video game!

once again you talk about people who don't use gear landing as some indicator of "skill" or not knowing "slow speed handling"

I rarely fly now a days....but I say you and I go to DA and you show me how to Fly at "slow speeds".....

you being a "real world pilot" you should have no problem, putting guns on me...... right........

for some reason I have a feeling you would be quite easy to kill....while you are worried about coordinated turns, I will slip in and send you to the tower.


I never use my gear to land unless rearming......and I can easily fly at slow speeds, watching films of my fights I very often get my ride under 80 MPH and have seen it as low as 45....

or you can continue to just talk smack about what you think is proper game play  :rolleyes:




Title: Re: Crosswinds on landing
Post by: hitech on April 25, 2013, 01:08:48 PM
Or coming down final in the B-24 with 20 inches on one side and 24-25 inches on the the other side (leaves you with lots of rudder) while cussing the folks that closed the long runway (into the 28G35 wind) at Lake Charles.  The guy flying the B-17 that day was all squeaky voiced after he landed.   :devil

My most memorable was at Manhattan Kansas. It is a big wide runway winds in the 25 gusting to 40 range. The landing was one of those one wheel rollers where that brings a smile to your face ,Finally out of right aileron, left wheel comes down still ok on center line, as the tail is coming down (always can be problematic in rv as the tail is blanks with the flaps) the plane does the great leap to the right, and I am bellybutton h... elbows ,brakes and anything else I can move including throttle to get it straight. After finally getting slowed to taxi speed, I key the mic to the tower and say Hmm that was interesting, controller replies, Yea , that didn't look like much fun from up here either.

HiTech
Title: Re: Crosswinds on landing
Post by: Zacherof on April 25, 2013, 01:28:45 PM
If your flying at 45mph your doing it wrong :old: :D
btw ink I'd like to DA you in the 84 :joystick: :banana:
Title: Re: Crosswinds on landing
Post by: ink on April 25, 2013, 03:47:32 PM
If your flying at 45mph your doing it wrong :old: :D
btw ink I'd like to DA you in the 84 :joystick: :banana:

see me on say the word :aok
Title: Re: Crosswinds on landing
Post by: colmbo on April 25, 2013, 08:26:04 PM
and I am bellybutton h... elbows ,brakes and anything else I can move including throttle to get it straight.

BTDT!!  One of the B-17 pilots used to say John Travolta had nothing on us....we kept our feet moving "just staying alive!".
Title: Re: Crosswinds on landing
Post by: earl1937 on April 27, 2013, 11:18:31 AM
once again you talk about people who don't use gear landing as some indicator of "skill" or not knowing "slow speed handling"

I rarely fly now a days....but I say you and I go to DA and you show me how to Fly at "slow speeds".....

you being a "real world pilot" you should have no problem, putting guns on me...... right........

for some reason I have a feeling you would be quite easy to kill....while you are worried about coordinated turns, I will slip in and send you to the tower.


I never use my gear to land unless rearming......and I can easily fly at slow speeds, watching films of my fights I very often get my ride under 80 MPH and have seen it as low as 45....

or you can continue to just talk smack about what you think is proper game play  :rolleyes:





[/quote Well, you kinda made my point! When I post something in here, it is in the interest of improving pilot skills. If I were you, I wouldn't chanlege a 79 year man with one good eye.MIght be embrassing to you, but I do respect your video game skills.  But, since you raised the point of slow flight, as I did, try this on for size: airspeed, 1.1 VSO, then see if you can maintain a constant heading and a constant altitude, with full faps down and gear down....LOL
Title: Re: Crosswinds on landing
Post by: LilMak on April 27, 2013, 01:03:37 PM
Landed the 170 in Poteau, OK. Winds from the left gusting all over the place at over 25kts. Planted it on the ground left wheel first. Had just rolled past the lone turn off (taxi back runway) and reached town to bring up the flaps doing maybe 10mph. Just as the flaps popped up I got a strong gust from the left. Weatherveined into the wind and the left main came off the ground with full correction still in. Hammered on the right brake and watched helplessly as the right wing came within 2 feet of the runway. Gust ceased and the main came back down. Circled and marveled at the 1/2 moon skid mark on the runway from my right wheel. Taxied to the FBO and checked pants for skid marks. Thankfully none were present.

Decided to take a break, have lunch, and make the rest of the flight to OKC in the evening when the winds were forecast to die down some.
Title: Re: Crosswinds on landing
Post by: ink on April 27, 2013, 03:00:18 PM






[/quote Well, you kinda made my point! When I post something in here, it is in the interest of improving pilot skills. If I were you, I wouldn't chanlege a 79 year man with one good eye.MIght be embrassing to you, but I do respect your video game skills.  But, since you raised the point of slow flight, as I did, try this on for size: airspeed, 1.1 VSO, then see if you can maintain a constant heading and a constant altitude, with full faps down and gear down....LOL
[/quote]

you have mentioned a few times about people landing without gear and equating that to "skill" and whatnot......

this is not a flight sim.......  it is a combat sim.......I am not here to "learn" how to fly a plane......(although I do believe AH does help in that)

 I could care less what others do ingame, and when you mention the whole "gear" thing........well you should get my point....

(combat sim not a flight sim...and it don't matter what others do as long as they are not cheating)

as far me being embarrassed, that would not happen.....no matter what happens ......even if you could whoop me, I would take that time spent with a better AH stick and learn as much as I could about fighting....(not landing :neener:).......


I didn't know what "VSO" meant....so google I did......VSO 1.1 I am guessing is..... minimum airspeed for landing....

 I have had my engine hit many..... many times.......I have coasted home with a dead engine and maintained my plane long enough to get to base and slide onto the concrete.......I know this is not exactly what you are talking about but considering how far I have coasted with no engine...I don't see an issue.
Title: Re: Crosswinds on landing
Post by: earl1937 on April 27, 2013, 04:19:46 PM





[/quote Well, you kinda made my point! When I post something in here, it is in the interest of improving pilot skills. If I were you, I wouldn't chanlege a 79 year man with one good eye.MIght be embrassing to you, but I do respect your video game skills.  But, since you raised the point of slow flight, as I did, try this on for size: airspeed, 1.1 VSO, then see if you can maintain a constant heading and a constant altitude, with full faps down and gear down....LOL


you have mentioned a few times about people landing without gear and equating that to "skill" and whatnot......

this is not a flight sim.......  it is a combat sim.......I am not here to "learn" how to fly a plane......(although I do believe AH does help in that)

 I could care less what others do ingame, and when you mention the whole "gear" thing........well you should get my point....

(combat sim not a flight sim...and it don't matter what others do as long as they are not cheating)

as far me being embarrassed, that would not happen.....no matter what happens ......even if you could whoop me, I would take that time spent with a better AH stick and learn as much as I could about fighting....(not landing :neener:).......


I didn't know what "VSO" meant....so google I did......VSO 1.1 I am guessing is..... minimum airspeed for landing....

 I have had my engine hit many..... many times.......I have coasted home with a dead engine and maintained my plane long enough to get to base and slide onto the concrete.......I know this is not exactly what you are talking about but considering how far I have coasted with no engine...I don't see an issue.
:airplane: 1.1 VSO is 1.1 X stalling speed, 50% fuel, gear and flaps down and power off.
defined by regulations.
 


V-speed designator
 
Description
 


V1
 
Critical engine failure recognition speed. (See V1 definitions below)[7][8][9]
 


V2
 
Takeoff safety speed. The speed at which the aircraft may safely become airborne with one engine inoperative.[7][8][9]
 


V2min
 
Minimum takeoff safety speed.[7][8][9]
 


V3
 
Flap retraction speed.[8][9]
 


V4
 
Steady initial climb speed. The all engines operating take-off climb speed used to the point where acceleration to flap retraction speed is initiated. Should be attained by a gross height of 400 feet.[10]
 


VA
 
Design maneuvering speed. This is the speed above which it is unwise to make full application of any single flight control (or "pull to the stops") as it may generate a force greater than the aircraft's structural limitations.[7][8][9][11]
 


Vat
 
Indicated airspeed at threshold, which is equal to the stall speed VS0 multiplied by 1.3 or stall speed VS1g multiplied by 1.23 in the landing configuration at the maximum certificated landing mass. If both VS0 and VS1g are available, the higher resulting Vat shall be applied.[12] Also called "approach speed".
 


VB
 
Design speed for maximum gust intensity.[7][8][9]
 


VC
 
Design cruise speed, used to show compliance with gust intensity loading.[13]
 


Vcef
 
See V1; generally used in documentation of military aircraft performance.[14]
 


VD
 
Design diving speed.[7][8][9]
 


VDF
 
Demonstrated flight diving speed.[7][8][9]
 


VEF
 
The speed at which the Critical engine is assumed to fail during takeoff.[7]
 


VF
 
Designed flap speed.[7][8][9]
 


VFC
 
Maximum speed for stability characteristics.[7][9]
 


VFE
 
Maximum flap extended speed.[7][8][9]
 


VFTO
 
Final takeoff speed.[7]
 


VH
 
Maximum speed in level flight at maximum continuous power.[7][8][9]
 


VLE
 
Maximum landing gear extended speed. This is the maximum speed at which it is safe to fly a retractable gear aircraft with the landing gear extended.[7][8][9][15]
 


VLO
 
Maximum landing gear operating speed. This is the maximum speed at which it is safe to extend or retract the landing gear on a retractable gear aircraft.[7][8][9][15]
 


VLOF
 
Lift-off speed.[7][9]
 


VMC
 
Minimum control speed with Critical engine inoperative.[7][8][9]
 


Vmca
 
Minimum control speed in the take-off configuration – the minimum calibrated airspeed at which the aircraft is directionally controllable in flight with a sudden Critical engine failure and takeoff power on the operative engine(s).[9]
 


Vmcg
 
Minimum control speed on the ground – the minimum airspeed at which the aircraft is directionally controllable during acceleration along the runway with one engine inoperative, takeoff power on the operative engine(s), and with nose wheel steering assumed inoperative.[9][16]
 


Vmcl
 
Minimum control speed in the landing configuration with one engine inoperative.[9][16]
 


VMO
 
Maximum operating limit speed.[7][8][9]
 


VMU
 
Minimum unstick speed.[7][8][9]
 


VNE
 
Never exceed speed.[7][8][9][17]
 


VNO
 
Maximum structural cruising speed or maximum speed for normal operations.[7][8][9]
 


VO
 
Maximum operating maneuvering speed.[18]
 


VR
 
Rotation speed. The speed at which the aircraft's nosewheel leaves the ground.[7][8][9] Also see note on Vref below.
 


Vrot
 
Used instead of VR (in discussions of the takeoff performance of military aircraft) to denote rotation speed in conjunction with the term Vref (refusal speed).[14]
 


VRef
 
Landing reference speed or threshold crossing speed.[7][8][9]
(In discussions of the takeoff performance of military aircraft, the term Vref stands for refusal speed. Refusal speed is the maximum speed during takeoff from which the air vehicle can stop within the available remaining runway length for a specified altitude, weight, and configuration.[14] ) Incorrectly, or as an abbreviation, some documentation refers to Vref and/or Vrot speeds as "Vr."[19]
 


VS
 
Stall speed or minimum steady flight speed for which the aircraft is still controllable.[7][8][9]
 


VS0
 
Stall speed or minimum flight speed in landing configuration.[7][8][9]
 


VS1
 
Stall speed or minimum steady flight speed for which the aircraft is still controllable in a specific configuration.[7][8]
 


VSR
 
Reference stall speed.[7]
 


VSR0
 
Reference stall speed in landing configuration.[7]
 


VSR1
 
Reference stall speed in a specific configuration.[7]
 


VSW
 
Speed at which the stall warning will occur.[7]
 


VTOSS
 
Category A rotorcraft takeoff safety speed.[7][17]
 


VX
 
Speed that will allow for best angle of climb.[7][8]
 


VY
 
Speed
Now all you have to do is get the POH for the aircraft you intend to fly, read it and there you have it
Title: Re: Crosswinds on landing
Post by: ink on April 27, 2013, 05:56:04 PM
 :rofl

holy crap :O


I imagine that is just a very small % of what one must learn to get a pilots license......


thats why I come to AH......

don't have to worry about crashing the plane....or going to prison when I kill people :D


I have flown 1 plane in the real world......a super Decathlon..never been in a plane before, it was..... I admit the most awesome feeling ever....next to the kids being born that is.

although wish I had the time and money to get a pilots license.



Title: Re: Crosswinds on landing
Post by: earl1937 on April 28, 2013, 03:39:00 PM
:rofl

holy crap :O


I imagine that is just a very small % of what one must learn to get a pilots license......


that's why I come to AH......

don't have to worry about crashing the plane....or going to prison when I kill people :D


I have flown 1 plane in the real world......a super Decathlon..never been in a plane before, it was..... I admit the most awesome feeling ever....next to the kids being born that is.

although wish I had the time and money to get a pilots license.




:airplane: Ink, you are a good guy, so I will make an exception for you. I would be glad to work with u anytime to many sharpen your pilot skills, just let me know when and where.
While true, some people in this game could care less about flying skills, The one thing I always enjoy is instruction. Soloed in May 1948, (PT-26) and have held all the FAA instructor certificates
since the middle 1960's. I would be glad to help you anyway I can. I invite you to view our training pages on our web site, HTTP://devildogsbombersquadron.com Might be some things which might help you in furthing your aviation education!
Title: Re: Crosswinds on landing
Post by: RedBull1 on April 28, 2013, 04:44:24 PM
I see people landing all the time, who are experienced AH players, which land with gear up all the time, because they don't have a clue how to fly the aircraft at slow speeds, know nothing about stall speeds, x-wind controlling and etc.
Not true at all, I have quite a few hours in a few different aircraft IRL, I know the ins and outs of most aircraft, I know how to land, etc. However I, and quite a few people I know in-game almost always land with my gear up for a few reasons including:

1.) It's far faster
2.) because it's faster, you are less likely to get vulched

I landed 'properly' for my first 2 months in AH or so, after that it just became unnecessary time doing proper lineup to the runway, checking speeds, AoA, etc. when you can simply get to the tire marks over the runway at 250, chop throttle, throw the rudder back and forth slowing to 150 and below in seconds and stopping in 20 ft.

I very much enjoyed the more 'realistic' landings you can get in FSX, the brakes in AH are a tad OP anyway to make landings realistic, I mean you can land a B17 4/5th of the way down the runway and stop before you get to the next taxiway.
Title: Re: Crosswinds on landing
Post by: ink on April 29, 2013, 01:47:53 AM
:airplane: Ink, you are a good guy, so I will make an exception for you. I would be glad to work with u anytime to many sharpen your pilot skills, just let me know when and where.
While true, some people in this game could care less about flying skills, The one thing I always enjoy is instruction. Soloed in May 1948, (PT-26) and have held all the FAA instructor certificates
since the middle 1960's. I would be glad to help you anyway I can. I invite you to view our training pages on our web site, HTTP://devildogsbombersquadron.com Might be some things which might help you in furthing your aviation education!

thanx :salute

what times you on?
Title: Re: Crosswinds on landing
Post by: earl1937 on April 29, 2013, 10:07:17 AM
thanx :salute

what times you on?
  Normally around 4PM, EST time, but just getting over cancer surgery last week, so don't know how long it will be before back to 100%! Running about 50% right now! But I am good for an hour at a time. Send me a PM in this BB and will be glad to help you.
Title: Re: Crosswinds on landing
Post by: ink on April 29, 2013, 12:58:16 PM
 Normally around 4PM, EST time, but just getting over cancer surgery last week, so don't know how long it will be before back to 100%! Running about 50% right now! But I am good for an hour at a time. Send me a PM in this BB and will be glad to help you.

damn......... get well ASAP :salute


http://www.mediafire.com/?9sky9cxgl70x3sj

here is a film of me in the MA (after about 3 weeks of not flying)maybe you can see what I am doing wrong.....

mind you...... my goal is not to live..... I don't now, nor ever cared about that, my goal is to fight/kill red guys.