Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: fullmetalbullet on May 03, 2013, 01:03:15 PM
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I have been wondering why this has not been added as an option for our current 251 halftracks. we have the M3 halftrack with the 75mm cannon option why not the 251?
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-FXZ2nyEN7ZE/UUlxVr-L9dI/AAAAAAAAI5Y/CCliOHp0FKI/s1600/Sdkfz+22.JPG)
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+1 :aok
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that's a Sd.Kfz. 251/22 mittlere Schützenpanzerwagen (7.5 cm) PaK Ausf. D, they look cool but, what would you do with it? do you know how many were made? considering the top speed off road was 10kmh, you would be a nice slow target...
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None of the vehicles in AH are limited to their offroad speeds. 35mph cross country in a T-34 would probably kill the crew.
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And our jeeps would snap with what we do to them.
Not to mention trees stopping tigers at full speed...
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The SdKfz 251 is a chassis in AH that could easily lend another 3-4 gv variants. The /9 would be a land based LVT-4 (7.5cm infantry support cannon good for leveling a town). The /22 would be similar to the M3 halftrack with the 75mm dirt clod thrower on it, though the /22 would have the same 7.5cm gun as the Panzer IV H (Pak40) so it would be far more potent, it was a designated TD. The /5 could be an early war TD in having the 3.7mm AT gun. The /17 has triple 20mm mounted for AA use (or direct fire support vs towns, etc). Etc.
The chassis is already there. HTC couls easily give the SdKfz 251 new life by adding more variants. :aok
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The SdKfz 251 is a chassis in AH that could easily lend another 3-4 gv variants. The /9 would be a land based LVT-4 (7.5cm infantry support cannon good for leveling a town). The /22 would be similar to the M3 halftrack with the 75mm dirt clod thrower on it, though the /22 would have the same 7.5cm gun as the Panzer IV H (Pak40) so it would be far more potent, it was a designated TD. The /5 could be an early war TD in having the 3.7mm AT gun. The /17 has triple 20mm mounted for AA use (or direct fire support vs towns, etc). Etc.
The chassis is already there. HTC couls easily give the SdKfz 251 new life by adding more variants. :aok
Which would be a plus considering the Sdkfz rarely gets used as a troop carrier or bombard for towns.
I would +1 this, but I much rather have the Puma first.
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M8 on steroids!
+1 for a 50mm gun
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+1
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the sdk needs gun variants badly to get it out of the hangar. with its low top speed noone uses it for time critical field captures as its so much slower than m3
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the sdk needs gun variants badly to get it out of the hangar. with its low top speed noone uses it for time critical field captures as its so much slower than m3
Its so rare I have not had a chance to kill it yet :furious
Here I am giving hours of my time to let others shoot down the weird and wonderful, yet I am still missing a few of the old birds and that SDK!
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Years back I was flying on a commercial airliner and the guy sitting next to me used to be a crewman on one of those Hanomags
with the Pak 40s on it. He had an interesting opinion about the vehicle. He said the cannon was great, but you tended to attract
attention from the tanks, which also had big guns, but also had the armor too. :D He was happy to make it through the war.
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Its so rare I have not had a chance to kill it yet :furious
That made me look up my numbers. I killed only 8 of them in the past two years (all time total 64). The rarest thing of equipment I come across in the MA by far :old:
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Hmmm. Maybe I'll spend some time trying to get a kill in one tonight, and conversely provide kills for those in need. I can't fly as my desk is still in pieces...
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I use them to run troops sometimes when the town is pretty close to the GV spawn or there are multiple aircraft trying to strafe the GV's. I have survived multiple strafing runs from A-20's before and sometimes it's just fun to be different. +1 for new variants being added! :aok
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I captured a base with an SDKFZ yesterday, much to the dismay of the pilots trying to strafe me. The view out of it sucks, and it is slower but the extra armor allowed me to drive right up to the map room (surrounded by friendly wirbs) and drop the 3 troops needed to capture the base.
+1 for the big a#$ gun!
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I would love to see more of these so we can kill them more often.
+1
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Hmmm. Maybe I'll spend some time trying to get a kill in one tonight, and conversely provide kills for those in need. I can't fly as my desk is still in pieces...
scotch?
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scotch?
Hmmm?
Well, I did one sortie in it. I am sorry, but it is horrible. The visibility out of it is dreadful. I can see the advantages when in situations with a lot of infantry combat, but against airplanes it just means you can't see the things that can all kill you.
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Slap a 75mm on it, and it would be the lemming from hell. I suspect it would be second only to the M18 in terms of pissing off perk tanks.
And there would be no end to the screams and crying if it got 3x 20mm's :devil.
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And there would be no end to the screams and crying if it got 3x 20mm's :devil.
Why? Wirbelwind would still get almost all of the use and would be a bigger threat.
I'd like it to get both the 75mm cannon and the three 20mm cannon options.
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Why? Wirbelwind would still get almost all of the use and would be a bigger threat.
I'd like it to get both the 75mm cannon and the three 20mm cannon options.
Think about it, they're much smaller targets than a wirblwind, and are more mobile once seen. Additonally, they can hide in undestroyed barns. So if spotted, one would need a bomb to have a good chance of getting him while under cover.
Second, they can keep up with any tank, and are much easier to keep under cover from other tanks. Thus they can keep closer to the front line, and cover just about any area where there would be GV's.
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Slap a 75mm on it, and it would be the lemming from hell. I suspect it would be second only to the M18 in terms of pissing off perk tanks.
And there would be no end to the screams and crying if it got 3x 20mm's :devil.
Halftrack does 32mph - it would not be second to the M18 - as 99% would still use the T34/85 for its protection and better gun - it would still get used over the M3 - only because its gun is a horrible piece of crap - however its probably at the bottom of the GV use.
Another note - the Sd.Kfz. 251/17 is the standard Anti aircraft variant of the Sdkfz - it had a single 20mm cannon - later on it had a single 37mm mounted gun - the Sd.Kfz. 251/21 was introduced in August of '44 for the need of Anti aircraft vehicles very few were made.
If anything gets added it would be the single 20mm or 37mm version - why? Wirb/Osti were in production when the triple mount was made - allies need a few anti aircraft vehicles first before axis gets any more beefed up then they already are.
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Halftrack does 32mph - it would not be second to the M18 - as 99% would still use the T34/85 for its protection and better gun - it would still get used over the M3 - only because its gun is a horrible piece of crap - however its probably at the bottom of the GV use.
T-34/85 is perked, although not heavily. And its not much harder to see and kill than any other tank.
The SdKfz 251/22 on the other hand, is about as fast, smaller, harder to see, and its free. Aside from the M18, its probably going to be the best vehicle to piss off a Tiger II with.
Another note - the Sd.Kfz. 251/17 is the standard Anti aircraft variant of the Sdkfz - it had a single 20mm cannon - later on it had a single 37mm mounted gun - the Sd.Kfz. 251/21 was introduced in August of '44 for the need of Anti aircraft vehicles very few were made.
And so? Didn't only one squadron of F4U-4's see service? IIRC, weren't there less than 50 ostwinds made?
The Ostwind and Wirblewind didn't go into production much earlier, with the first Mobelwagen (the predecessor of the two) only going into service in April of 1944.
If anything gets added it would be the single 20mm or 37mm version - why? Wirb/Osti were in production when the triple mount was made - allies need a few anti aircraft vehicles first before axis gets any more beefed up then they already are.
So HTC would intentionally leave a vehicle update unfinished, simply because the Allies don't have something to match it, despite all sides having access to it in the MA's?
As for adding the earlier single 20mm or 37mm gun, wouldn't that only exacerbate the issue in special events, considering that the Axis would have a more effective AA platform even earlier than they do now?
Hell, when you actually think about it, adding the single 20mm option would actually be dumber than adding neither.
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Hell, when you actually think about it, adding the single 20mm option would actually be dumber than adding neither.
I can see filling out the Sdkfz line once a bunch of other vehicles get added, but there are a dozen if not more vehicles that deserve a spot in aces high. If you look at the variants of aircraft added in game - none had all their variants completed before another aircraft.
P-47M was recently added for example, I foresee a 190G model in the future - a Spitfire and mossy variant. Also we have a whole line of crappy russian planes to add, for historical accuracy.
Much as I hate the LaGG-3, Mig-3 and Yak-1 on paper, do we really need to finish out the Sdkfz line before touching on other areas of the game? Even if HTC doesn't add more anti aircraft vehicles for the allies - there are still plenty of planes that need to be added.
It will get added eventually, however when you consider what "needs" to be added and what we "want" there needs to be a balance.
/with the He-111 just added, I am quite curious what is the next bomber being considered - I am leaning on the Wellington or some british bomber or the Hudson.
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True, none had all of their variants added all in one sitting. But then its not like we started out with the 109E-4 as our only 109, and then added the 109F. Or started out with the Spit I, and then added the Spit V.
And the logical ones to leave out would be the /9 and the /11, considering that one would be fairly useless with its 37mm, and the other is just an assult gun that would have little to no place in scenarios, and would be less effective than the M3 GMC in the MA's.
But if they're looking to add an AA version, the single 20mm version would be about the least usefull. Its less effective in the MA, its available earlier than the /21, so the Axis will still have more AA vehicles than the Allies in special events for a while.
There are litterally no advantages to leaving out the /21.
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Hmmm?
Well, I did one sortie in it. I am sorry, but it is horrible. The visibility out of it is dreadful. I can see the advantages when in situations with a lot of infantry combat, but against airplanes it just means you can't see the things that can all kill you.
Use the forward MG position and crank the view up as high as it will go and it's not so bad. Makes it a little tricky to shoot stuff though. :salute
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AH v1.00 Bf109s were the Bf109F-4, Bf109G-2, Bf109G-6 and Bf109G-10 (really a K-4, but with 20mm options) and the Spitfires were represented by just the Spitfire Mk IX.
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True, none had all of their variants added all in one sitting. But then its not like we started out with the 109E-4 as our only 109, and then added the 109F. Or started out with the Spit I, and then added the Spit V.
As of late, HTC added the P40's and Hurricanes all in one shot. :D
Oh, and I too think adding the /9 (7.5cm Infantry support gun), /22 (triple 20mm AA), and /22 (7.5cm AT gun would be a great idea. Comparatively, they would be easier to add than adding an completely new gv. The chassis is complete and most of the upper frame is complete, just the front of the rear compartment would need modeled. Obviously, the weapon mounts too. The guns are all already in AH as well. :aok
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:aok +1
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As of late, HTC added the P40's and Hurricanes all in one shot. :D
Oh, and I too think adding the /9 (7.5cm Infantry support gun), /22 (triple 20mm AA), and /22 (7.5cm AT gun would be a great idea. Comparatively, they would be easier to add than adding an completely new gv. The chassis is complete and most of the upper frame is complete, just the front of the rear compartment would need modeled. Obviously, the weapon mounts too. The guns are all already in AH as well. :aok
Most are, anyway. We would still need the 37mm..... And that would likely mean some Panzer IIIs as our next GVs, since we have three of the four guns they used.
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Most are, anyway. We would still need the 37mm..... And that would likely mean some Panzer IIIs as our next GVs, since we have three of the four guns they used.
Panzer III's used the following guns:
37mm Kw.K. 36 L / 46.5
50mm Kw.K. 38 L / 42
50mm Kw.K. 39 L / 60
75mm Kw.K. 37 L / 24
Then also in the StG III platform (same chassis):
75mm Stu.K. 37 L / 24
75mm Stu.K. 40 L / 43
75mm Stu.K. 42 L / 48
Anything to add more pieces to the puzzle would be fine by me (no more super tanks, though). Obviously, adding in more SdKfz 251 variants would be the easiest, then adding in the Panzer III chassis as a base then filling in the different guns (similar to what we have with the current Panzer IV F), then adding in the StG III with the various guns. Etc.
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(http://www.timemoneyandblood.com/images/museums/CampSLO/SLO_japaneseTank97b.jpg)
(http://www.flamesofwar.com/Portals/0/all_images/Modelling/Italian%20tank%20markings%209.jpg)
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+1 for more SDKFZ Y M O U S E variants. :aok
Seriously.
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Panzer III's used the following guns:
Then also in the StG III platform (same chassis):
StuGs used a similar chassis (modified), you forgot the 105mm Sturmhaubitze 42 and the 150mm sIG 33
BTW some old publications mention a 75mm L/34 or so gun, they were fooled by censored images with partally washed-out gun barrel.
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The 251 with a 75mm gun would be good but it has no armor protection. The Stug III & IV Gs would be very welcome along with the Hetzer 38s. The assault gun was the most numerous of German armored vehicles. I like other light vehicles like the Schwerer Sd.KFz.234/4 with the PaK40 75mm gun or the speedy Sd.KFz.222 armored car with the 20mm. There are other light tanks like the Czech made Pz.Kpfw. 38T that was used to build many other vehicles. German armor was fascinating because they built so many types and must have been a nightmare for supply & logistics.
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Pictures from a Chino airshow about 6 years ago:
a look at the single 20mm version
(http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee24/tmetal_blk/Planes%20of%20fame%20airshow%202008/20mmhalftrack3.jpg) (http://s229.photobucket.com/user/tmetal_blk/media/Planes%20of%20fame%20airshow%202008/20mmhalftrack3.jpg.html)
And, it is a little backed up from the normal driving position but you can still tell that the field fo vision was terrible for the driver
(http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee24/tmetal_blk/Planes%20of%20fame%20airshow%202008/Germanhalftrackdriverseat.jpg) (http://s229.photobucket.com/user/tmetal_blk/media/Planes%20of%20fame%20airshow%202008/Germanhalftrackdriverseat.jpg.html)
and while we are wishing for more axis GVs, can I haz dis won two??
(http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee24/tmetal_blk/Planes%20of%20fame%20airshow%202008/germanstaffcar.jpg) (http://s229.photobucket.com/user/tmetal_blk/media/Planes%20of%20fame%20airshow%202008/germanstaffcar.jpg.html)
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StuGs used a similar chassis (modified), you forgot the 105mm Sturmhaubitze 42 and the 150mm sIG 33
BTW some old publications mention a 75mm L/34 or so gun, they were fooled by censored images with partally washed-out gun barrel.
Ah, my bad. I thought the '42 was based on the Panzer IV chassis and not the III. I've seen the "L/34" published, but never really gave it much thought.
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The 251 with a 75mm gun would be good but it has no armor protection. The Stug III & IV Gs would be very welcome along with the Hetzer 38s. The assault gun was the most numerous of German armored vehicles. I like other light vehicles like the Schwerer Sd.KFz.234/4 with the PaK40 75mm gun or the speedy Sd.KFz.222 armored car with the 20mm. There are other light tanks like the Czech made Pz.Kpfw. 38T that was used to build many other vehicles. German armor was fascinating because they built so many types and must have been a nightmare for supply & logistics.
Good point, but the M18 is as vulnerable as it gets as well. :aok I see the SdKfZ 251/22 armed with the 7.5cm Pak40 a far bigger threat than most give it credit for. The gun is no push over, it has superior AP ability compared to everything but the Tiger, Panther, Firefly, and King Tiger. It would cost nothing to use besides. Used in conjunction with other thanks and a spotter, it would hold its own in a defensive battle.
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+1000 to the 251 with a 75mm! Might be enough to get me to start GVing. :rock
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+1
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:aok
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Which would be a plus considering the Sdkfz rarely gets used as a troop carrier or bombard for towns.
I would +1 this, but I much rather have the Puma first.
I prefer the 251 for hauling troops while moving with tanks. A lot of the time you wont even get strafed.
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I prefer the 251 for hauling troops while moving with tanks. A lot of the time you wont even get strafed.
I dont know what it is for sure, but I'm guessing the sloped armor of the -251 allows it to have a wee bit better ability to shrug off MG rounds from aircraft. I like the -251, the 32mph top speed is what makes it take a back seat to the M3. That, and that it can't take but more than 4 gv supplies which I I believe is to limit the 28cm rockets. Obviously, there is no need for that since the 28cm rockets are far too difficult to be successful with (highly vulnerable carrier and VERY difficult to aim effectively). The -251 would be one of those gv's that would greatly benefit from having the Storch as a spotter. :aok
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I dont know what it is for sure, but I'm guessing the sloped armor of the -251 allows it to have a wee bit better ability to shrug off MG rounds from aircraft. I like the -251, the 32mph top speed is what makes it take a back seat to the M3. That, and that it can't take but more than 4 gv supplies which I I believe is to limit the 28cm rockets. Obviously, there is no need for that since the 28cm rockets are far too difficult to be successful with (highly vulnerable carrier and VERY difficult to aim effectively). The -251 would be one of those gv's that would greatly benefit from having the Storch as a spotter. :aok
the rockets are very useful against towns and such I've even killed a tank or 2 with the lower angle rockets its very fun
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I dont know what it is for sure, but I'm guessing the sloped armor of the -251 allows it to have a wee bit better ability to shrug off MG rounds from aircraft. I like the -251, the 32mph top speed is what makes it take a back seat to the M3. That, and that it can't take but more than 4 gv supplies which I I believe is to limit the 28cm rockets. Obviously, there is no need for that since the 28cm rockets are far too difficult to be successful with (highly vulnerable carrier and VERY difficult to aim effectively). The -251 would be one of those gv's that would greatly benefit from having the Storch as a spotter. :aok
Idk about that but I've taken hits from 17 pounders @ <400 yards and survived the first 2 with ricochets. As for aircraft attack, the slope may not be as advantageous as the extra armor thickness of the 251.
The low angle rockets can kill a plane if a few factors are true at the same time.
Park pointing a tree far enough to hit near the top of the tree. when a plane flies by to strafe you, fire a rocket just before the plane is closest to the tree and cross your fingers. Works with tank HE too.
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Do you really believe the M3 is faster than 250/251 in cross country performance ?
Values are road speed.
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Do you really believe the M3 is faster than 250/251 in cross country performance ?
Values are road speed.
I'd actually give the -251 an edge in cross country performance thanks to the larger tracks (lighter footprint), and tighter gear ratio (low RPM performance). Ultimately, they were not that much different (gross weight, engine hp/ton, cargo capacity, armor, etc). The biggest difference is in their road speed which is fully exploited in AH.
If HTC were to somehow have 2 top end speeds (road and cross country), the usage between the 2 troop carriers would be much more similar.
Speaking of which, the next topic could be how to add in a road from the spawn point to the town to the field, and give vehicles with typically more road use than not (jeep, M3, -251) their road speed and when they are not on the road they get their cross country road speed. There would be two major issues with that: what to do with the tanks and HTC would have to figure out how to get their truck convoys transparent so they wouldn't plow player controlled gv's off the road. OR.... better yet, add in a road from the gv spawn points to the town and field that is not associated with the convoys. :aok
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Idk about that but I've taken hits from 17 pounders @ <400 yards and survived the first 2 with ricochets. As for aircraft attack, the slope may not be as advantageous as the extra armor thickness of the 251.
The low angle rockets can kill a plane if a few factors are true at the same time.
Park pointing a tree far enough to hit near the top of the tree. when a plane flies by to strafe you, fire a rocket just before the plane is closest to the tree and cross your fingers. Works with tank HE too.
It depends where you hit a vehicle. Prime example is Surfinn once dove on my LVT-2 with a Yak-T and put a dozen if not all his 37mm's into me.
Each time I turned my tank 15 degrees away from him, to watch the rounds ricochet off me.
same scenario happen to me, I was in a Tiger and had a 800 yard shot on the butt of a T34-85 who was a few degrees off and I fire a round which I thought was his engine - turns out I hit the track and did no damage, one shot to me I died.
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if you get a good hit with a high velocity big tank shell, that tank is not doing any good in some time.
Got rammed by another tank once, < imagine me in a Disney cartoon with canaries flying around my head, sitting halfway in my gunners lap> :rolleyes:
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+1 to more 251 variants..
251 was always tougher but slower than M3, as it should be..
We used to run 251s with wirby escorts into towns vs Air defense..
Like a Rugby scrumm, ram em in there, right under their noses..
251/troops where the bait, to bring em into the Wirb guns..
Used to love that..