Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Citabria on June 06, 2013, 02:55:56 PM
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night and day.
the strats were hubs of activity being hti on all sides. high alt piston fighters were killing strat bombers.
bish horde was complaining about resupplying their strats.
then 163s were enabled.
all the bombers were killed or run off.
none of the strats are flashing. the bombers arent attacking them.. but why?
NO ONE WANTS TO SPEND AN HOUR CLIMBING TO GIVE SOME ADD SYNDROM #@!# FREE KILLS.
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But the 163 pilots are happy!
You can please most people most days.........
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no they aren't because in past 2 hours no ones bothered to go near the strats even though they are rebuilt.
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what makes montis the map we have now any different from the other maps hmm fester even on maps where the strats where at the front lines I only saw maybe a couple of bombers go over there to hit it in about 12 hour internvals
I would be more than happy to go bust some rook and knit strat in a B29 in a single flight but I won't be able to do that for atleast 4 hours or so
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night and day.
the strats were hubs of activity being hti on all sides. high alt piston fighters were killing strat bombers.
bish horde was complaining about resupplying their strats.
then 163s were enabled.
all the bombers were killed or run off.
none of the strats are flashing. the bombers arent attacking them.. but why?
NO ONE WANTS TO SPEND AN HOUR CLIMBING TO GIVE SOME ADD SYNDROM #@!# FREE KILLS.
:old: :cry
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what makes montis the map we have now any different from the other maps hmm fester even on maps where the strats where at the front lines I only saw maybe a couple of bombers go over there to hit it in about 12 hour internvals
I would be more than happy to go bust some rook and knit strat in a B29 in a single flight but I won't be able to do that for atleast 4 hours or so
Montis HAD an issue where the 163 was disabled. While it was there was lots of buffs and fighters fighting over the Strats. Once the 163 was ENABLED all those fights disappeared.
What he is saying is the 163 has a large impact on whether or not people want to take the time to do strat runs. Turn it on and there are no runs, turn them off and fight abound.
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Montis HAD an issue where the 163 was disabled. While it was there was lots of buffs and fighters fighting over the Strats. Once the 163 was ENABLED all those fights disappeared.
What he is saying is the 163 has a large impact on whether or not people want to take the time to do strat runs. Turn it on and there are no runs, turn them off and fight abound.
'Fight'... You mean buffs coming in at 30k+ hoping to be unmolested by all but the most die hard of buffkillers, with a bunch of people climbing below them?
Wiley.
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Montis HAD an issue where the 163 was disabled. While it was there was lots of buffs and fighters fighting over the Strats. Once the 163 was ENABLED all those fights disappeared.
What he is saying is the 163 has a large impact on whether or not people want to take the time to do strat runs. Turn it on and there are no runs, turn them off and fight abound.
I like buff hunting and strat running.
montis right now since the change has NO BUFFS AT STRATS
NO buffs to kill means no buffs strat running.
guys HTC you cant be blind to somthing so night and day as this.
163 should be disabled on all small maps.
for defending HQ its great on big maps but on small maps it is to unbalancing and invulnerable when well flown to even have in the arena.
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163 gone and no resupply for strats go along way to improve game play on smaller maps.
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so had the first bomber all afternoon since pyro enabled 163s try to fly to rook strats...
i intercepted him in a 163 70 miles from the city (163 has 20 min range the way i fly it and can go 200 miles easy)
so i flame one of the poor bomber pilots 25k b24s on the first pass from an angle and speed impossible for him to track...
then i zoom in front to setup another pass...
the poor guy bails out of his two remaining bombers out of frustration.
its not fun for me. its not fun for the poor bomber pilot that spent over an hour to get there. I spent 3 minutes getting that POS 163 there.
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What if HT were to limit the number of 163s per side? Each country can only up 3 163s at a time. Once 3 people are in flight with 163s that's it. Anyone else who tries to up one will get a message telling them that the 163 limit has been reached. Would stop people from upping 20 163s to kill 5 sets of bombers.
Maybe not the best idea, but that's the only thing I can think of right now.
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'Fight'... You mean buffs coming in at 30k+ hoping to be unmolested by all but the most die hard of buffkillers, with a bunch of people climbing below them?
Wiley.
Like the OP does? Who even knew B-17s were perked? They must be, to be flying up over 30k.
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Montis HAD an issue where the 163 was disabled. While it was there was lots of buffs and fighters fighting over the Strats. Once the 163 was ENABLED all those fights disappeared.
What he is saying is the 163 has a large impact on whether or not people want to take the time to do strat runs. Turn it on and there are no runs, turn them off and fight abound.
What I find amusing about this thread is that Fester doesn't remember the whines from the players complaining how they had no means to intercept high flying bombers attacking strats before we had the Me 163. The Me 163 was added to satisfy those that were whining about how difficult it was to intercept the strat attacking bombers as the only planes at the time, the Ta 152 and Me 262 were the only viable options and both had a hefty perk cost.
Now were are getting whines how the Me 163 are killing fights over the strats. Priceless.
ack-ack
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What I find amusing about this thread is that Fester doesn't remember the whines from the players complaining how they had no means to intercept high flying bombers attacking strats before we had the Me 163. The Me 163 was added to satisfy those that were whining about how difficult it was to intercept the strat attacking bombers as the only planes at the time, the Ta 152 and Me 262 were the only viable options and both had a hefty perk cost.
Now were are getting whines how the Me 163 are killing fights over the strats. Priceless.
ack-ack
you're not getting it.
I have killed more b29's and strat bombers on montis than any other MA map and they were almost all 25-30k and i had no trouble destroying them without a 163.
I can't destroy them if they are not there.
there is no predator if there is no food supply.
you may still get stray b17 and b24s and lancs once in a while but not the flood it was. and certainly you won't get to shoot at waves of b29s. they won't hang 300-400 perks out to dry for 163s to shoot at very often.
:rolleyes:
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What if HT were to limit the number of 163s per side? Each country can only up 3 163s at a time. Once 3 people are in flight with 163s that's it. Anyone else who tries to up one will get a message telling them that the 163 limit has been reached. Would stop people from upping 20 163s to kill 5 sets of bombers.
Maybe not the best idea, but that's the only thing I can think of right now.
Either this or jack up the cost of a 163 to somewhere in the neighborhood of a formation of 29's.
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you're not getting it.
I have killed more b29's and strat bombers on montis than any other MA map and they were almost all 25-30k and i had no trouble destroying them without a 163.
I can't destroy them if they are not there.
there is no predator if there is no food supply.
you may still get stray b17 and b24s and lancs once in a while but not the flood it was. and certainly you won't get to shoot at waves of b29s. they won't hang 300-400 perks out to dry for 163s to shoot at very often.
:rolleyes:
I understood your whine...err OP quite well the first time I read it. I just find it funny that years ago, the fighter types were whining how they couldn't intercept the high flying bombers attacking the strats in time to stop the bombers. That's why we got the Me 163 and why it's available at the closest field to the HQ. Now the whines from the fighter types is that the Me 163 has killed off the fights. Sometimes the things we wish for have a tendency to turn around and bite us on the arse.
ack-ack
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I understood your whine...err OP quite well the first time I read it. I just find it funny that years ago, the fighter types were whining how they couldn't intercept the high flying bombers attacking the strats in time to stop the bombers. That's why we got the Me 163 and why it's available at the closest field to the HQ. Now the whines from the fighter types is that the Me 163 has killed off the fights. Sometimes the things we wish for have a tendency to turn around and bite us on the arse.
To be fair, both the population and the strats are totally different then and now. Very, very few players of today had already been there when the 163 was introduced 11 years ago. And we only have working strats in a single cluster near the ME 163 bases for a relatively short time as well. Years ago the only thing that the Komet did protect was the HQ (and ocasionally that last airbase the enemy needed for the victory under the old victory rules).
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maybe we should have 163 disabled for periods of time...and during the time that they are disabled.......SMOKE AT THE STRATS TO OBSCURE THE TARGET......or lots of smoke frome strikes at the target.....remember pearl harbour in dec 1941....the japanese did not bomb the fuel supply there on purpose....the resoning being that all that fuel would create too much smoke,therby hindering the ability to bomb the ships ......for that matter,cv's should have the ability to create smoke to obscure themselves as in real life.
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11 years ago we were all learning unintended consequences lessons. Hitech regularly warns us about our wishes these days. Back then and as now we only think about our wants in the moment, while believing the current game culture is static and normative. Small changes over time can have large domino effects to human choice of activity. It took time but, look at strats and bombers now.
Fester sees an imbalance that no one could have accounted for. It exists because we players and the game's creator are not static entities fixed in time. Our chaotic change dynamic is the best constant of this game. The bomber\strat relationship change could have gone the way of most good intentions. Instead it rooted in the minds of players and blossomed.
Fester's assertion has quantifiable merit. We all like combat, and pure slaughter will drive players to other activities or even other games. We have the ability to turn the lights back on with the HQ inside of 30 minutes. So the past need for available 163 next to the HQ is no longer the same issue. And Hitech has tweeked the game since subtly to keep countries from being as easily isolated as in the past. There is still a place for the 163 but, maybe now perked commiserate to the high value weapon it is like the 262. The recently unperked XIV along with the K4 can both reach 30k in time to perform interceptions without causing the player to tab out and watch YouTube pron for 30 minutes. They both require skill though to bag bombers at 20-30k.
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If they'd just bring back the zone strat system;
There'd be more buffs, attack planes and GV's hitting strats.
There'd be more fighters and attack planes and GV's hitting the buffs, attack planes and GV's hitting the strats.
There'd be better strategic gameplay with the re-implementation of zone bases.
There'd be localized vs countrywide effect due to strat porkage.
The Skd, Calliope M4 and PT would have more things to do with their rockets.
M3's and goons would have more resupply options.
163's would still have an occasional target.
All those would be good things, the loss of which made the game much more boring.
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I agree with Triton. Bump up the perk cost 3 times what it is and I think problem solved. You'd be more careful if you are worried about losing fighter perkies.
When I up bombers to attack strats, I assume I won't be coming back, I am assuming I will be fighting my way in and my way out. It is fun when you have a bunch of bombers and fighter escorts going in. Epic like fights can develop.
If it takes me a couple hours to get there, then I am probably afk doing other things anyways. HA!
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Good lord, constructive input. Flying a 163 used to be an exercise in energy management (in more ways than one) and setting up snapshots on bombers who were usually driven by skilled gunners. The lack of practice meant that 163s weren't quite as deadly as they seem to be now, and the higher skill set of the buff pile-its tended to ameliorate the 163's effects over the strats. Add to that the reluctance to burn perks when you manage to compress and shudder and shake your way into the ground like a 650mph dart/vibrator.
11 years later, many people have 1000s if not 10s of thousands of perks to burn. A dead 6 approach on a buff concentrating on lining up a target (just takes timing) by a 163 can net 3 kills in one slightly oblique pass, and along with a generally better understanding of the tater's ballistics means that things are weighted in the 163's direction over the target.
So, yes, maybe it is time to up the 163's perk cost, particularly in light of the ability of SPit XiVs, K4s, Ta152s, and P47Ds (once they get up there) to make meaningful inroads on buff formations heading for the strats.
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Keep the Me163s... if you want to minimize the overall number that can up at one time, I can understand that. It is ridiculous to see 10+ Me163s all upping for one bomber vic. Perhaps limiting players to a certain number of sorties of 163s for each month?
However, removing an aircraft entirely because it interferes with your game-play is also ridiculous. It is akin to removing P51s because they run the 'turn fights' in AH.
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11 years ago we were all learning unintended consequences lessons. Hitech regularly warns us about our wishes these days. Back then and as now we only think about our wants in the moment, while believing the current game culture is static and normative. Small changes over time can have large domino effects to human choice of activity. It took time but, look at strats and bombers now.
Fester sees an imbalance that no one could have accounted for. It exists because we players and the game's creator are not static entities fixed in time. Our chaotic change dynamic is the best constant of this game. The bomber\strat relationship change could have gone the way of most good intentions. Instead it rooted in the minds of players and blossomed.
Fester's assertion has quantifiable merit. We all like combat, and pure slaughter will drive players to other activities or even other games. We have the ability to turn the lights back on with the HQ inside of 30 minutes. So the past need for available 163 next to the HQ is no longer the same issue. And Hitech has tweeked the game since subtly to keep countries from being as easily isolated as in the past. There is still a place for the 163 but, maybe now perked commiserate to the high value weapon it is like the 262. The recently unperked XIV along with the K4 can both reach 30k in time to perform interceptions without causing the player to tab out and watch YouTube pron for 30 minutes. They both require skill though to bag bombers at 20-30k.
Bustr use heap many big words. Me no care about strats, only Dar. Me big pawn in game of...
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I hear google is a school boy's best friend in many ways.......
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Sounds like the OP just want an easy button.....seeing strat flash knows where bad guy is. Want to kill buffs go hunting. Keep the 163 right where it is. -1 to any change
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The 163's swung the pendulum too far in the other direction
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The 163's swung the pendulum too far in the other direction
If the pendulum has swung too far in the other direction, it's not the 163's fault (or the introduction of the 163).
The 163 was introduced at a totally different gameplay situation 11 years ago, and it's the redesign of the strats (putting them into a single cluster and move them to the HQ area on small maps) that changed the context in which the Me 163 operates.
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I would agree that buffing into an area easily accessed by 163's is basically no fun............
Assuming that 163's will not be removed...........
..................increase distance between HQ and Strat city such that only one (the HQ?) was easily covered by 163's
................. add a 163 hanger or rocket fuel dump at 163 fields such that they could be disabled for periods in game play
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I would agree that buffing into an area easily accessed by 163's is basically no fun............
Assuming that 163's will not be removed...........
..................increase distance between HQ and Strat city such that only one (the HQ?) was easily covered by 163's
................. add a 163 hanger or rocket fuel dump at 163 fields such that they could be disabled for periods in game play
Why don't you strat monkeys just organize a huge raid where all your country hops in various buffs and kills the hq - they cant shoot all of you down.
Once the HQ is dead you have a free time running on strats and further ruining the game for everyone else. Then you'll get your final victory when the opposing side logs off to play Nintendo instead of playing gimped.
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Why don't you strat monkeys just organize a huge raid where all your country hops in various buffs and kills the hq - they cant shoot all of you down.
Once the HQ is dead you have a free time running on strats and further ruining the game for everyone else. Then you'll get your final victory when the opposing side logs off to play Nintendo instead of playing gimped.
(http://www.easyfreesmileys.com/smileys/free-sexy-smileys-944.gif) (http://www.easyfreesmileys.com/facebook-smileys.html)
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I chased strat raiders in my 110g2 alot yesterday. Caught b17s and Lancaster's at 20-25k with ease. But the B29s are a different story all together. I intercepted a single b29 once. I was at 29 k he was at 32k. I missed the side shot when he dove slightly he was staying at 2k in front of me so I dove to get speed at a shallow angle to get him directly over head and would pull up. got to within 800 of him twice but failed to down him in the brief seconds I had that range. The guy finally got tired of me and went from his half throttle setting to wep and walked away from me in seconds :) Point being a 35-37k B29 is extremely difficult to catch even with a 262. Prior to the 163 being enabled b29s were operating basically without resistance.
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If you are worried about 163s, then fly fighters over strats/hq a few missions in a row.
I've done this by myself a few missions in a row and then came back in buffs to find no 163s upping for a few hours afterward.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Bolo
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What I find amusing about this thread is that Fester doesn't remember the whines from the players complaining how they had no means to intercept high flying bombers attacking strats before we had the Me 163. The Me 163 was added to satisfy those that were whining about how difficult it was to intercept the strat attacking bombers as the only planes at the time, the Ta 152 and Me 262 were the only viable options and both had a hefty perk cost.
Now were are getting whines how the Me 163 are killing fights over the strats. Priceless.
ack-ack
152 is free now. We also have the K4, and the spit 14, and P-47. All are good high altitude fighters, and all are free.
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Point being a 35-37k B29 is extremely difficult to catch even with a 262.
cant catch one with a 262 at 35k....
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cant catch one with a 262 at 35k....
But you can with a Ta152H-1 or P-47N.
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Not the N....even at 33k, it can't catch a Lanc (kinda hangs in there until the wep dies)
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Not the N....even at 33k, it can't catch a Lanc (kinda hangs in there until the wep dies)
Not true in any way. Lancs have lost their 30k+ ability literally years ago.
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Not the N....even at 33k, it can't catch a Lanc (kinda hangs in there until the wep dies)
Lanc can't really reach 33k, but....
(http://www.hitechcreations.com/components/com_ahplaneperf/genchart.php?p1=83&p2=31&pw=2>ype=0&gui=localhost&itemsel=GameData)
At 33k a P-47N tops out at about 470mph. That is fast enough to catch any bomber in the game. Even the Ar234.
(http://www.hitechcreations.com/components/com_ahplaneperf/genchart.php?p1=83&p2=110&pw=2>ype=0&gui=localhost&itemsel=GameData)
(http://www.hitechcreations.com/components/com_ahplaneperf/genchart.php?p1=83&p2=39&pw=2>ype=0&gui=localhost&itemsel=GameData)
(http://www.hitechcreations.com/components/com_ahplaneperf/genchart.php?p1=83&p2=114&pw=2>ype=0&gui=localhost&itemsel=GameData)
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Not true in any way. Lancs have lost their 30k+ ability literally years ago.
It's possibly been that long since that scenario came up......but when it DID....M seemed to have more ability up there than N (which doesn't seem correct, on the face of it)
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forget it, it's useless.
semp
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It doesn't' matter if you can theoretically catch a buff at those alts - you won't be able to manouver effectively to kill them anyway. The buff laser guns will saw any attacker in half if they try anything at those alts. Unless you make a dead 6 attack, setting up will take half a map and the buff will finish the bombing run before anyone can get to it :x
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I blame htc for all my rocket vulches. if he would only disable the rockets, I wouldnt use them to vulch. I could just stop but that would be too hard.
fester. dont blame htc for you upping a 163 to kill the bombers and claiming it wasnt fun for you or the other guy. if it isnt fun then dont do it.
semp
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It doesn't' matter if you can theoretically catch a buff at those alts - you won't be able to manouver effectively to kill them anyway. The buff laser guns will saw any attacker in half if they try anything at those alts. Unless you make a dead 6 attack, setting up will take half a map and the buff will finish the bombing run before anyone can get to it :x
Ok, if I can furball in a K4 at 30K, I can damn well maneuver into position on a bomber at 33K.
And I've intercepted bombers at 36k with a Ta 152. It actually handled pretty well, even though acceleration was crap.
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It doesn't' matter if you can theoretically catch a buff at those alts - you won't be able to manouver effectively to kill them anyway.
Then I must have done something wrong over all these years...
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Then I must have done something wrong over all these years...
Yep you must have huge patience...