Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: TGG93 on June 26, 2013, 10:10:35 AM
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I am aware threads have been made in the past in regards to the addition of these aircraft and the possible roles they would fill in Aces High. I would like to share some of my thoughts on this.
I think that seaplanes, although slow and cumbersome, can have a viable place in Aces High. They could be used as a recon platform and could receive an icon range bonus for aircraft similar to what the Storch gets for vehicles, they could be used as a quick aircraft to put in the air to defend a port, they could be catapulted from a ship to give it an eye in the sky, they could be used as a strike aircraft carrying a bomb load or if submarines were added in future they could be equipped with depth charges and go sub hunting.
I think seaplanes should be launched in one of three ways, depending on the size of the seaplane. I would split the seaplanes into two groups, small and large. Small seaplanes are what they say they are – small, single engined aircraft with 3 or less crew members. Large seaplanes are also what they say they are – 2 or 4 engined aircraft with a larger crew.
All seaplanes would be able to be launched from an airfield and take off and land in a conventional manner with wheeled landing gear (presuming the aircraft has them, which I believe most did) and could be equipped with bombs, torpedos or depth charges (again, if subs are implemented) depending on whether or not they could carry them. A new hangar could be added for seaplanes or they could be linked to the existing bomber/fighter hangars.
A seaplane hangar would be added to the port, sitting in the water. Again, all types of seaplane could launch from here and would be able to "land" their sorties by landing within the vicinity of the hangar. If the hangar is destroyed then no seaplanes can be deployed.
Lastly, small seaplanes would be able to be catapulted from the decks of cruisers. This would act much like aircraft do with carriers, if the cruiser is destroyed then no more seaplanes for that fleet. Again, landing in the vicinity of a friendly cruiser would allow you to land your sortie.
I have put together a list of aircraft I think would work with this system, if there are any others you think would work then please go ahead and share. I have avoided biplanes simply because there are no other ones in the arenas. Some of the info counts entire production of all models (entered service, number produced) and other info is specific to the model given. Further research into models is definitely required, I've only included rough specifications of certain models, not necessarily the models that would be added.
Please share your thoughts.
(aircraft posted in separate replies due to character limit)
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Small Seaplanes (airfields, ports & cruisers):
Japan
Aichi E13A "Jake"
Manufacturer: Aichi
Model: E13A1
Crew: 3
Entered Service: 1940
Number Produced: 1418
Engine: 1x Mitsubishi Kinsei-43, 750kW
Weights: 4000 kg / 8819 lb (take off), 2642 kg / 5825 lb (empty)
Dimensions: 14.5 m / 48 ft 7 in (wingspan), 11.3 m / 37 ft 1 in (length), 7.4 m / 24 ft 3 in (height), 36.0 m² / 387.50 sq ft (wing area)
Performance: 375 km/h / 233 mph (max speed), 220 km/h / 137 mph (cruise speed), 8730 m / 28650 ft (ceiling), 2100 km / 1300 miles (range)
Armament: 1x 20 mm cannon, 1x 7.7 mm machine gun, 1x 250 kg bomb
(http://www.aviastar.org/pictures/japan/aichi_jake-s.gif)
(http://www.aviastar.org/pictures/japan/aichi_e13a.gif)
http://www.aviastar.org/air/japan/aichi_e13a.php
Aichi E16A "Paul"
Manufacturer: Aichi
Model: E16A2
Crew: 2
Entered Service: 1943
Number Produced: 256
Engine: 1x Mitsubishi MK8D Kensei-54, 975kW
Weights: 4553 kg / 10038 lb (take off), 2945 kg / 6493 lb (empty)
Dimensions: 12.81 m / 42 ft 0 in (wingspan), 10.83 m / 36 ft 6 in (length), 4.79 m / 16 ft 9 in (height), 28.0 m² / 301.39 sq ft (wing area)
Performance: 435 km/h / 270 mph (max speed), 330 km/h / 205 mph (cruise speed), 10000 m / 32800 ft (ceiling), 2420 km / 1510 miles (range)
Armament: 2x 20 mm cannons, 1x 13 mm machine gun, 1x 250 kg bomb
(http://www.aviastar.org/pictures/japan/aichi_e16a-s.gif)
(http://www.aviastar.org/pictures/japan/aichi_e16a.gif)
http://www.aviastar.org/air/japan/aichi_e16a.php
Nakajima A6M2-N "Rufe"
Manufacturer: Nakajima
Model: A6M2-N
Crew: 1
Entered Service: 1942
Number Produced: 327
Engine: 1x Nakajima NK1C Sakae-12, 705kW
Weights: 2460 kg / 5423 lb (take off), 1912 kg / 4235 lb (empty)
Dimensions: 12.0 m / 39 ft 4 in (wingspan), 10.1 m / 33 ft 2 in (length), 4.3 m / 14 ft 1 in (height), 22.44 m² / 241.54 sq ft (wing area)
Performance: 435 km/h / 270 mph (max speed), 300 km/h / 186 mph (cruise speed), 10000 m / 32800 ft (ceiling), 1780 km / 1106 miles (range)
Armament: 2x 20 mm cannons, 2x 7.7 mm machine guns, 2x 60kg bombs
(http://www.aviastar.org/pictures/japan/nakajima_a6m-n-s.gif)
(http://www.aviastar.org/pictures/japan/nakajima_a6m-n.gif)
http://www.aviastar.org/air/japan/nakajima_a6m-n.php
Kawanishi N1K Kyofu "Rex"
Manufacturer: Kawanishi
Model: N1K1
Crew: 1
Entered Service: 1943
Number Produced: 97
Engine: 1x Mitsubishi MK4E Kasei-15, 1150kW
Weights: 3712 kg / 8184 lb (take off), 2752 kg / 6067 lb (empty)
Dimensions: 12.0 m / 39 ft 4 in (wingspan), 10.59 m / 35 ft 9 in (length), 4.75 m / 16 ft 7 in (height), 23.5 m² / 252.95 sq ft (wing area)
Performance: 480 km/h / 298 mph (max speed), 365 km/h / 227 mph (cruise speed), 10560 m / 34650 ft (ceiling), 1650 km / 1025 miles (range)
Armament: 2x 20 mm cannons, 2x 7.7 mm machine guns, 2x 30kg bombs
(http://www.aviastar.org/pictures/japan/kawanishi_n1k-s.gif)
(http://www.aviastar.org/pictures/japan/kawanishi_n1k.gif)
http://www.aviastar.org/air/japan/kawanishi_n1k.php
United States of America
Vought OS2U Kingfisher
Manufacturer: Vought
Model: OS2U-3
Crew: 2
Entered Service: 1940
Number Produced: 1925
Engine: 1x Pratt & Whitney R-985-AN-2, 336kW
Weights: 2722 kg / 6001 lb (take off), 1870 kg / 4123 lb (empty)
Dimensions: 10.95 m / 36 ft 11 in (wingspan), 10.31 m / 34 ft 10 in (length), 4.61 m / 15 ft 1 in (height), 24.0 m² / 262 sq ft (wing area)
Performance: 264 km/h / 164 mph (max speed), 3960 m / 13000 ft (ceiling), 1296 km / 805 miles (range)
Armament: 2x .50 cal machine guns, 2x 45 kg bombs
(http://www.aviastar.org/pictures/usa/vought-sik_vs-210-s.gif)
(http://www.aviastar.org/pictures/usa/vought-sik_vs-210.gif)
http://www.aviastar.org/air/usa/vought-sik_vs-210.php
Curtiss SO3C Seamew
Manufacturer: Curtiss
Model: SO3C-2C
Crew: 2
Entered Service: 1942
Number Produced: 795
Engine: 1x Ranger SGV-770-8, 447kW
Weights: 2599 kg / 5730 lb (take off), 1943 kg / 4284 lb (empty)
Dimensions: 11.58 m / 38 ft 0 in (wingspan), 11.23 m / 37 ft 10 in (length), 4.57 m / 15 ft 0 in (height), 26.94 m² / 289.98 sq ft (wing area)
Performance: 277 km/h / 172 mph (max speed), 201 km/h / 125 mph (cruise speed), 4815 m / 15800 ft (ceiling), 1851 km / 1150 miles (range)
Armament: 1x .30 cal machine gun, 1x .50 cal machine gun, 2x 45 kg bombs
(http://www.aviastar.org/pictures/usa/curtiss_model82-s.gif)
(http://www.aviastar.org/pictures/usa/curtiss_model82.gif)
http://www.aviastar.org/air/usa/curtiss_model82.php
Curtiss SC Seahawk
Manufacturer: Curtiss
Model: SC-1
Crew: 1
Entered Service: 1944
Number Produced: 577
Engine: 1x Wright R-1820-62, 1007kW
Weights: 4082 kg / 8999 lb (take off), 2867 kg / 6321 lb (empty)
Dimensions: 12.50 m / 41 ft 0 in (wingspan), 11.09 m / 36 ft 5 in (length), 3.89 m / 13 ft 9 in (height), 26.01 m² / 279.97 sq ft (wing area)
Performance: 504 km/h / 313 mph (max speed), 201 km/h / 125 mph (cruise speed), 11370 m / 37300 ft (ceiling), 1006 km / 625 miles (range)
Armament: 2x .50 cal machine guns, 2x 150 kg bombs
(http://www.aviastar.org/pictures/usa/curtiss_model97-s.gif)
(http://www.aviastar.org/pictures/usa/curtiss_model97.gif)
http://www.aviastar.org/air/usa/curtiss_model97.php
Germany
Arado Ar 196
Manufacturer: Arado
Model: 196-A3
Crew: 2
Entered Service: 1939
Number Produced: 541
Engine: 1x BMW 132K, 705kW
Weights: 3730 kg / 8223 lb (take off), 2990 kg / 6593 lb (empty)
Dimensions: 12.4 m / 40 ft 8 in (wingspan), 11 m / 36 ft 1 in (length), 4.45 m / 14 ft 7 in (height), 28.4 m² / 306 sq ft (wing area)
Performance: 310 km/h / 193 mph (max speed), 255 km/h / 158 mph (cruise speed), 7000 m / 22960 ft (ceiling), 1070 km / 670 miles (range)
Armament: 2x 20 mm cannons, 2x 7.92 mm machine guns, 2x 50 kg bombs
(http://www.aviastar.org/pictures/germany/arado_ar-196-s.gif)
(http://www.aviastar.org/pictures/germany/arado_ar-196.gif)
http://www.aviastar.org/air/germany/arado_ar-196.php
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Large Seaplanes (airfields & ports):
United Kingdom
Short S.25 Sunderland
Manufacturer: Short
Model: S.25 Sunderland Mk V
Crew: 9 - 11
Entered Service: 1938
Number Produced: 777
Engine: 4x Pratt & Whitney R-1830-90-B Twin Wasps, 895kW
Weights: 29480 kg / 64993 lb (take off), 16740 kg / 36906 lb (empty)
Dimensions: 34.38 m / 113 ft 10 in (wingspan), 26 m / 85 ft 4 in (length), 10.52 m / 35 ft 6 in (height), 156.72 m² / 1686.92 sq ft (wing area)
Performance: 343 km/h / 213 mph (max speed), 285 km/h / 178 mph (cruise speed), 5455 m / 17900 ft (ceiling), 4300 km / 2672 miles (range)
Armament: 2x .50 cal machine guns, 10x .30 cal machine guns, 2250 kg of bombs
(http://www.aviastar.org/gallery/sunderland/sunderland_1.gif)
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/40/Short_Sunderland_3view_drawings.PNG)
http://www.aviastar.org/air/england/short_sunderland.php
Japan
Kawanishi H6K "Mavis"
Manufacturer: Kawanishi
Model: H6K5
Crew: 10
Entered Service: 1938
Number Produced: 215
Engine: 4x Mitsubishi Kinsei-51, 975kW
Weights: 17500 kg / 38581 lb (take off), 12380 kg / 27293 lb (empty)
Dimensions: 40.0 m / 131 ft 3 in (wingspan), 25.63 m / 84 ft 1 in (length), 6.27 m / 21 ft 7 in (height), 170 m² / 1829.86 sq ft (wing area)
Performance: 380 km/h / 236 mph (max speed), 255 km/h / 158 mph (cruise speed), 9560 m / 31350 ft (ceiling), 4870 km / 3026 miles (range)
Armament: 1x 20 mm cannon, 4x 7.7 mm machine guns, 1000 kg of bombs or 2x 800 kg torpedos
(http://www.aviastar.org/pictures/japan/kawanishi_mavis-s.gif)
(http://www.aviastar.org/pictures/japan/kawanishi_h6k.gif)
http://www.aviastar.org/air/japan/kawanishi_h6k.php
Kawanishi H8K "Emily"
Manufacturer: Kawanishi
Model: H8K2
Crew: 9
Entered Service: 1942
Number Produced: 167
Engine: 4x Mitsubishi MK4Q Kasei-22, 1380kW
Weights: 24500 kg / 54014 lb (take off), 18380 kg / 40521 lb (empty)
Dimensions: 38.0 m / 125 ft 8 in (wingspan), 28.13 m / 92 ft 3 in (length), 9.15 m / 30 ft 0 in (height), 160 m² / 1722.22 sq ft (wing area)
Performance: 460 km/h / 286 mph (max speed), 290 km/h / 180 mph (cruise speed), 8850 m / 29050 ft (ceiling), 7050 km / 4381 miles (range)
Armament: 3x 20 mm cannons, 4x 7.7 mm machine guns, 2000 kg of bombs or 2x 800 kg torpedos
(http://www.aviastar.org/pictures/japan/kawanishi_h8k-s.gif)
(http://www.aviastar.org/pictures/japan/kawanishi_h8k.gif)
http://www.aviastar.org/air/japan/kawanishi_h8k.php
United States of America
Martin PBM Mariner
Manufacturer: Martin
Model: PBM-1
Crew: 7
Entered Service: 1940
Number Produced: 1285
Engine: 2x Wright R-2600-12, 1300kW
Weights: 25425 kg / 56000 lb (take off), 15048 kg / 33175 lb (empty)
Dimensions: 36.0 m / 118 ft 0 in (wingspan), 23.5 m / 79 ft 10 in (length), 5.33 m / 27 ft 6 in (height), 131 m² / 1408 sq ft (wing area)
Performance: 330 km/h / 205 mph (max speed), 240 km/h / 149 mph (cruise speed), 6040 m / 19800 ft (ceiling), 4800 km / 3000 miles (range)
Armament: 8x .50 cal machine guns, 1800 kg of bombs or 2x 1000 kg torpedos
(http://www.aviastar.org/pictures/usa/martin_mariner-s.gif)
(http://www.aviastar.org/pictures/usa/martin_mariner.gif)
http://www.aviastar.org/air/usa/martin_mariner.php
Consolidated PBY Catalina
Manufacturer: Consolidated
Model: PBY-5A
Crew: 6 - 10
Entered Service: 1936
Number Produced: 3305
Engine: 2x Pratt & Whitney R-1830-92 Twin Wasp, 895kW
Weights: 16066 kg / 35240 lb (take off), 9485 kg / 20910 lb (empty)
Dimensions: 31.70 m / 104 ft 0 in (wingspan), 19.46 m / 63 ft 10 in (length), 6.15 m / 21 ft 1 in (height), 130 m² / 1400 sq ft (wing area)
Performance: 314 km/h / 196 mph (max speed), 201 km/h / 125 mph (cruise speed), 4000 m / 15800 ft (ceiling), 4030 km / 2520 miles (range)
Armament: 3x .30 cal machine guns, 2x .50 cal machine guns, 1800 kg of bombs or 2x 1000 kg torpedos
(http://www.aviastar.org/pictures/usa/cons_catalina-s.gif)
(http://www.aviastar.org/pictures/usa/cons_catalina.gif)
http://www.aviastar.org/air/usa/cons_catalina.php
Germany
Heinkel He 115
Manufacturer: Heinkel
Model: He 115 C-1
Crew: 3
Entered Service: 1939
Number Produced: 138
Engine: 2x BMW 132K, 706kW
Weights: 10400 kg / 22928 lb (take off), 5290 kg / 11670 lb (empty)
Dimensions: 22.28 m / 73 ft 1 in (wingspan), 17.30 m / 56 ft 9 in (length), 6.60 m / 21 ft 7 in (height), 87.5 m² / 942 sq ft (wing area)
Performance: 327 km/h / 203 mph (max speed), 5200 m / 17100 ft (ceiling), 2100 km / 1305 miles (range)
Armament: 1x 20 mm cannon, 2x 7.92 mm machine guns, 5x 250 kg bombs or 2x 250 kg bombs and 1x 800kg torpedo
(http://www.aviastar.org/pictures/germany/he-115-s.gif)
(http://www.aviastar.org/pictures/germany/he-115.gif)
http://www.aviastar.org/air/germany/he-115.php
Dornier Do 24
Manufacturer: Dornier
Model: Do 24 T-1
Crew: 6
Entered Service: 1937
Number Produced: 279
Engine: 3x Bramo 323R-2 Fafnir, 735kW
Weights: 18400 kg / 40565 lb (take off), 10600 kg / 23369 lb (empty)
Dimensions: 27.0 m / 89 ft 7 in (wingspan), 21.9 m / 72 ft 10 in (length), 5.8 m / 19 ft 0 in (height), 108.0 m² / 1162.50 sq ft (wing area)
Performance: 340 km/h / 211 mph (max speed), 255 km/h / 158 mph (cruise speed), 5900 m / 19350 ft (ceiling), 4800 km / 2983 miles (range)
Armament: 1x 20 mm cannon, 2x 7.92 mm machine guns, 600 kg of bombs
(http://www.aviastar.org/pictures/germany/dorn_do-24-s.gif)
(http://www.aviastar.org/pictures/germany/dorn_do-24.gif)
http://www.aviastar.org/air/germany/dorn_do-24.php
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Yes!!!!
Am I the only one looking at the float planes as a potential defense fighter???
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A seaplane hangar would be added to the port, sitting in the water. Again, all types of seaplane could launch from here and would be able to "land" their sorties by landing within the vicinity of the hangar. If the hangar is destroyed then no seaplanes can be deployed.
Lastly, small seaplanes would be able to be catapulted from the decks of cruisers. This would act much like aircraft do with carriers, if the cruiser is destroyed then no more seaplanes for that fleet. Again, landing in the vicinity of a friendly cruiser would allow you to land your sortie.
Please share your thoughts.
(aircraft posted in separate replies due to character limit)
'Vicinity' landings may be the issue. Currently, if you're not on the runway or deck you ditch. Perhaps
HT can code vicinity landings, I'm not sure. The cruiser landing might be a chore since the ship cannot
stop to take you aboard (as it could in reality). You would have to probably land in front of it and hope
someone doesn't change course on you.
Cat launched 'fleet spotters' would be dead meat in the LWMA but may be cool for events.
Larger seaplanes would merely be waterborne attack/bomber craft (like the 'Black Cats').
I'm not seeing submarines in AH's future, myself - but HT knows more when it comes to
limits.
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Yes!!!!
Am I the only one looking at the float planes as a potential defense fighter???
Perhaps. :D
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They could be used as a recon platform and could receive an icon range bonus for aircraft similar to what the Storch gets for vehicles
that is the one point i personally would have issue with. aircraft already have an icon range of 6000 yards (18,000 feet) why would a float plane get more? are the eyes of the crew in float planes supposed to be better than other planes? as long as the radar on the carrier is intact, there is no need for the float plane to recon for anything except maybe an enemy cv group, even then nearly any of the existing carrier aircraft are better suited to the task of flying around looking for enemy aircraft and ships. anyone that wants to go slow and carry a small bomb can up a d3a.
the pby's could have a supply and troop option as well as bombs. it's been a while but i think the sunderland and h8k could too...have to check into that.
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Got the specs of the "Duck"??
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'Vicinity' landings may be the issue. Currently, if you're not on the runway or deck you ditch. Perhaps
HT can code vicinity landings, I'm not sure. The cruiser landing might be a chore since the ship cannot
stop to take you aboard (as it could in reality). You would have to probably land in front of it and hope
someone doesn't change course on you.
vicinity landing at ports would be easy to implement. the docks are perfect for it. if i remember correctly there is one empty dock, just make that spot the "safe landing" zone and the float plane has to pull up into it for a successful landing.
alternatively, lol, when you're in a hurry you could just knock the floats off the plane and belly land on concrete...
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Are wing floats incorparated into a wing? Or are they merely "bolted" on
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Are wing floats incorparated into a wing? Or are they merely "bolted" on
if someone told you to look it up...would you?
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if someone told you to look it up...would you?
having trouble finding exact specs. :bhead
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I think the issue for most is that they would be deemed useless to gameplay.
The storch proves this wrong everyday.
I give it a big +1 but believe it should only be enabled at ports. My favourite would be the PBY Catalina. Maybe give it the option to mark enemy CV's on the map if within a certain range of the CV. Just taking off and landing at the ports would be cool :airplane:.
With the new wave motion on PT's maybe HT has already thought about this in the next version.
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vicinity landing at ports would be easy to implement. the docks are perfect for it. if i remember correctly there is one empty dock, just make that spot the "safe landing" zone and the float plane has to pull up into it for a successful landing.
There's more than enough space for them!
(http://i44.tinypic.com/k9ygxy.jpg)
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having trouble finding exact specs. :bhead
you're joking right? sounds like you're google impaired...think carefully, what information are you wanting? does it help to specify a plane? does it help to specify what you're looking at? what happens when you change 1 or 2 words?
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Got what I need you turd :neener:
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Got what I need you turd :neener:
:rofl that's great...i knew you could do it. :lol
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No icons for seaplanes and this will work wonders (other than other seaplanes I suppose?).
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No icons for seaplanes and this will work wonders (other than other seaplanes I suppose?).
Hmmm much as I would like popping spits and ponies with a floater, why should they get an advantage
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No icons for seaplanes and this will work wonders (other than other seaplanes I suppose?).
tell me your kidding...or come up with some logical reason why that should be the case.
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Hmmm much as I would like popping spits and ponies with a floater, why should they get an advantage
Seaplanes are at such a disadvantage I figure them as their own "ecosystem" that need their own special approach, like the storch or gv's.
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storch has an icon...there goes one theory down in flames. nearly all of the float planes the op posted have forward firing guns for defense, the big ones have multiple gun positions...so they aren't totally defenseless.
a few can carry some big bombs, which makes them dangerous to ships...that means they need an icon as to not have an imbalancing advantage.
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Goon has icon, rv8 has icon. These are the most harmless aircraft in game.
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storch has an icon...there goes one theory down in flames. nearly all of the float planes the op posted have forward firing guns for defense, the big ones have multiple gun positions...so they aren't totally defenseless.
a few can carry some big bombs, which makes them dangerous to ships...that means they need an icon as to not have an imbalancing advantage.
Unless you're in the AvA and then ships really have to worry... ;)
Besides, enemy icons are so old-school. :D
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TGG93,
The most common version of the H8K was the H8K2 and it was defended by five 20mm Type 99 Model 1 cannons (same as in the tail of the G4M1 in AH now) and three 7.7mm machine guns. It was also the most heavily armored Japanese aircraft of the war having a fully protected fuel system and armor for the engines and each crew position. At cruise settings with full fuel it had 24 hours endurance, so 12 hours in AH.
An H8K2 is the only surviving very large Axis aircraft today:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2b/Kawanishi_H8K2_%28Emily%29_flying_boat.jpg/800px-Kawanishi_H8K2_%28Emily%29_flying_boat.jpg)
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They more I see them the more I want! :banana:
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TGG93,
The most common version of the H8K was the H8K2 and it was defended by five 20mm Type 99 Model 1 cannons (same as in the tail of the G4M1 in AH now) and three 7.7mm machine guns. It was also the most heavily armored Japanese aircraft of the war having a fully protected fuel system and armor for the engines and each crew position. At cruise settings with full fuel it had 24 hours endurance, so 12 hours in AH.
An H8K2 is the only surviving very large Axis aircraft today:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2b/Kawanishi_H8K2_%28Emily%29_flying_boat.jpg/800px-Kawanishi_H8K2_%28Emily%29_flying_boat.jpg)
A lot of sources I was looking at differed on the specifications of several models and I admit I'm not the best eye when it comes to specifics. The L model was also interesting, being able to carry 64 soldiers. The H8K was really a world beater and it's a shame there's only one left.
Unrelated: As far as I'm aware, Japan were the only country to deploy seaplanes as "fighters", the Zero based "Rufe" and N1K based "Rex". The Allies tested a few, such as the Spitfire and F4F seaplanes, but weren't happy with them.
(http://www.avionslegendaires.net/wp-content/uploads/images/avion_militaire/Ga6m2n.jpg)
(http://www.colori.nl/vliegtuigen/Aircraft001/N1K1.jpg)
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Interesting. I know the Blom & Voss 222 carried troops as well, something like 98 with a 26 hour endurance at 150mph
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TGG93,
The most common version of the H8K was the H8K2 and it was defended by five 20mm Type 99 Model 1 cannons (same as in the tail of the G4M1 in AH now) and three 7.7mm machine guns. It was also the most heavily armored Japanese aircraft of the war having a fully protected fuel system and armor for the engines and each crew position. At cruise settings with full fuel it had 24 hours endurance, so 12 hours in AH.
You can almost make the same argument for the H6K "Mavis", while not as well armed or as fast as the "Emily", it had the same 24 hour flight time endurance and almost the same range as the "Emily". It was also a rather tough aircraft, as this story attests.
Lt. Hitsuji, 851 NAG, was commanding an H6K (Mavis) in November 1942, and became one of the first to find out what shot down Japanese patrol planes and survive. The following is a translation from his memoir "Saigo no Hikotei (The Last Flying boat)" (Asahi Sonorama, ISBN4-257-17286-X).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Enemy plane! Close! Starboard and to the rear!" the tail gunner reported.
"All men on air to air battle station!" I yelled as I put the plane in a full speed dive to sealevel.
It was 0700 November 21, 1942, 150 nautical miles south of Guadalcanal. We were in midst of a very bloody battle, losing flying boats almost every day to unidentified enemy activities. Our boats would have just enough time to radio a consecutive "hi" signal (consecutive signaling of the Japanese Morse code signal for the character "hi", the initial for "hikoki" or airplane) before the shoot-out followed by silence. Very few survived air combat. If a boat is able to make detailed reports about the enemy, that boat was sure to make it back.
Our commanding officer was in distress about the mounting losses, and just a few days ago, I had assured him that this will not go on for long. So far 16 of our boats were lost. I was not about to be number 17. It wasn't a patrol plane's duty to engage in air battles, but now I had no choice.
I figured that the fight must be decided quickly. The B-17 positioned itself above and to the starboard rear of our plane and followed us with ease. It must be radioing it's base about our position. One of them was bad enough. If there were two or even fighter planes we did not have a chance. I made a tight turn to the port and headed towards the enemy. The only chance we had was the relatively small turning radius of our slow plane compared to that of the fast B-17.
The enemy was obviously surprised at our sudden turn. As we passed each other, our tail cannon fire hit the B-17 and its port inside engine started smoking. The enemy fled, trailing a long streamer of black smoke. The enemy was surprisingly inpersistent. We continued our search mission, but I had a feeling that it wasn't over yet.
"Eat your breakfast now before they come back" I ordered and went to the commander's seat to open my lunchbox. Pretty soon the co-pilot silently pointed his finger forward and to the port. I took a hard look, and there he was. Another big-tailed B-17 heading straight toward us. The one we damaged must have called for help. We were all ready to fight, and I stood up from my seat. I sealed the tank chamber and pulled the fire extinguisher lever. This fills the tank chamber with CO2. All gunners manned their stations. I could see the front gunner grinning in his turret.
"Okay we're ready" someone said.
At altitude 30 meters and speed 150 knots, we headed towards squally skied in the direction of our base. The enemy didn't start his attack immediately. It flew alongside us and passed us. I figured that he was avoiding our tail cannon. It would probably be making a frontal attack. The shoot-out was about to begin.
"Here it comes!" someone shouted, and at the same time, the enemy's front guns and all four of our starboard machine-guns started firing. As we passed each other, I could see the enemy's tail gun fire, but tracers were way behind us. No hits on either side. We didn't change our course and headed toward the squall.
The faster enemy caught up quickly and crisscrossed our path, attacking as it passed us.
We were at very low altitude, and the sea behind us whitened with machine-gun fire. As the shooting went on, this started moving closer and closer. I could not hear anything other than the roar of the machine-guns and the engine noise. I couldn't keep my eyes off the enemy for a moment. The enemy made its fourth pass, and as it crossed our path, a 50 caliber shell jumped into the cockpit.
I heard someone yell "Damn!" and smelled smoke at the same time. I turned around and two men were down on the floor. Our main radio man PO2 Watanabe's left arm was hanging limp from his shoulder, and blood was shooting up to the ceiling. Flight engineer Leading Mechanic Nakano was down on the floor, holding his left arm, and shouting "Gasoline, gasoline!".
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He was yelling to the radioman because the spark from the telegram key could set the vaporized gasoline on fire. But the injured radio man continued to send the message that we were combating an enemy bomber. The enemy started making yet another pass.
I took off my muffler and threw it to Lt. (jg) Ide who was shooting away, and yelled "Stop his bleeding!" I could see from the tank chamber window that gas was gushing out of a hit tank. It was a miracle that it wasn't on fire. The floor was soon covered with gas. I injected additional CO2 gas, and I could see the white gas filling the tank chamber. The injured mechanic was still yelling "Gasoline!". I could only yell back "It's okay! You worry about yourself!"
We were able to stop the radioman's bleeding, but the enemy still kept attacking. Amid the exchange of machine gun roar, I could hear bullets tearing into our plane. The plane shook under the impact. All four engines were driving at full power.
On their sixth pass, the moment I saw their tailgun fire, there was an enormous banging noise up front gunner PO1 Takahashi pointed to the floor beneath the pilot's seat and I noted a big hole about 30cm, on the keel of our bow. I could see waves from the hole.
By this time, I was sure that this enemy has shot down more than one flying boat. "It wasn't fighters. It was this guy. Another patrol plane!. I'm going to get him. He is not going to have anymore kill marks!" As I came to this realization, there was a new determination in my mind. If we can't donw him with our guns, we will ram him. I drew and loaded my pistol.
"If worse comes to worst we'll ram him, okay?" I patted the main pilot Ensign Kobayashi's sholder with my pistol. He nodded lightly. "Okay, we're ready then". My mind was set. I was going to shoot myself at the moment of the ramming so I would die before the crew.
I noted that the side panel of the commander's seat was burning hot. I was shocked to find the bullet that hit the crew crewmen perched in the panel. Had I not been standing, this bullet would have hit my back! (This bullet is still in my possession).
I noticed that the enemy's fire was getting considerably weaker. Either some of their gunners were knocked out, or they were out of ammo. I was getting the feeling that we may be able to make it when the co-pilot suddenly put the plane in a dive. The sea was right in front of us.
"Not yet!" I yelled, thinking that he was about to ram the B-17, but soon realized that our co-pilot PO1 Kira evaded a collision with the enemy who came in from the side. The enemy passed about 30meters behind us. The tail gunner poured an entire drum of 20mm cannon shells into the B-17.
The shells all hit the enemy's fuselage. The enemy passed us from the right, then banked left and started closing into our plane. I could see the enemy pilot's face. I couldn't help but fire my pistol at the enemy.
Maybe the enemy was trying to ram us too. I noticed all his guns were pointing random directions. He must have been out of ammo. He flew alongside us banking and yawing for a while, but eventually disappeared into the rain towards Guadalcanal, trailing gasoline. "We won!" we said to each other, but we could no longer fight.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lt. Hitsuji's H6K made it back to Shortland, but taxing was something of a small adventure. After splashdown, as soon as the bow came down, water started gushing in from the hole in the bow. Since they did not have material to close the big hole in the bow, they stuffed their life jackets into the hole. This obviously wasn't holding up, and six men piled up on the life jacket-stuffed hole to stop the water. By the time they were beached, these men had their head barely above water. Everyone was covered with water, oil, and blood.
Their plane #36 (could have been O-36 or 851-36 or 51-36) had endured ninety-three 50 caliber bullets.
Measures were immediately taken to improve the defensive capability of the flying boats. The following conversions were made on the field.
1) Fuel tank protection : All fuel tanks were covered with rubber, and held together with wire net. (Hitsuji notes that American self-sealing tanks with the rubber inside the tank was much more effective, but that couldn't be done in the field.)
2) Improved defensive armament: Machine-guns on H6Ks were increased from one 20mm and seven 7.7mm to three 20mm (tail and waist) and five 7.7mm (front, dorsal, ventral, and fuselage sides).
3) Armor: 20mm armor plate behind the pilots' seat and 20mm shield at gunners' positions. However, Hitsuji notes that the armor behind the pilot was something of a mixed blessing. Since they didn't have bullet-proof glass, if the bullet came in from the front and hit the pilot , the bullet would not just pass through, but be deflected by the armor plate and tear the pilot's body apart.
4) Increased air to air gunnery training.
These conversions amounted to 1.5 tons in additional weight, but this did not affect speed and range performance.
Lt. Hitsuji survived the war to become the last Japanese pilot to fly the H8K2 when he flew the big boat to Yokohama and where it was handed over to the US occupational forces. He was escorted by a PBY, but had to fly in zigzag pattern to keep from overtaking the PBY.
ack-ack
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I'd LOVE to fly the Mavis, even if it is certain death in the MA's. :)
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Flying any of these kind of planes comes with a huge amount of drawbacks due to the weight, drag and lack of speed in general.
That is why they would need some special arrangement for their implementation in AH.
AKA: "no enemy icons, except for other seaplanes".
Otherwise these would simply be flying targets without a hope, and as well it would make a case for their purpose as air sea rescue of downed pilots to retain perks + streaks.
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Flying any of these kind of planes comes with a huge amount of drawbacks due to the weight, drag and lack of speed in general.
That is why they would need some special arrangement for their implementation in AH.
AKA: "no enemy icons, except for other seaplanes".
Otherwise these would simply be flying targets without a hope, and as well it would make a case for their purpose as air sea rescue of downed pilots to retain perks + streaks.
If these planes ever get added, there is no need for special consideration like having these planes have no icons. Planes that we have, like the C-47 and Storch have icons and they are absolutely defensless aircraft against any fighter.
ack-ack
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If these planes ever get added, there is no need for special consideration like having these planes have no icons. Planes that we have, like the C-47 and Storch have icons and they are absolutely defensless aircraft against any fighter.
ack-ack
That argument is pointless because c47s have the amazing ability to capture a field, while these don't. As well, the storch ruins the day of all tankers its nearby with its smoke and conversely attuned ability to see vehicles from afar.
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It's important to remember every thing in AH is a potential target
Seaplanes will probally have better chance at survival, but flyig boats aren't without a punch them selves.
Do Lancaster and other bombers get special treatment?
How bout the slow Betty. No and no.
Now them having a attribute similarto the storch I don't really see anything sticking out.
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It's important to remember every thing in AH is a potential target
Seaplanes will probally have better chance at survival, but flyig boats aren't without a punch them selves.
Do Lancaster and other bombers get special treatment?
How bout the slow Betty. No and no.
Now them having a attribute similarto the storch I don't really see anything sticking out.
Bombers got formations to counteract the rising danger of the MA machines (as well as the drop in bomber players, the two might be linked).
I don't think you are understanding particularly how crippled these things are, the fastest fighter on that list barely broke 300mph top speed. God only knows how long it takes to get to that speed, and think of diving with those huge attachments.
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B5N? Very slow with only a 30cal def gun. The HK6 & 8 would have a better chance of shooting down their attackers.
True, the B5N can dodge and turn to live a little longer but it is still only a matter of time before it will be hit.
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I believe your slightly underestimating them. Most have 20mm guns. Those tend to hurts with only a few rounds. I know a few peeps who can make a tbm and in particular a sbd dance. Both are seen as fodder, yet they are not totally helpless.
I'm not going to argue on the flying boats as they are slow, and ungainly.
But would a formation be he right coarse of action?
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Flying any of these kind of planes comes with a huge amount of drawbacks due to the weight, drag and lack of speed in general.
That is why they would need some special arrangement for their implementation in AH.
AKA: "no enemy icons, except for other seaplanes".
Otherwise these would simply be flying targets without a hope, and as well it would make a case for their purpose as air sea rescue of downed pilots to retain perks + streaks.
Some, yes. I don't see how the H8K2 would need any particular help in AH. It could even have formations enabled and as such would be a fairly nasty heavy bomber.
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With the possible inclusion of these types of aircraft, we'll evn have platforms to suppor ASW when the time comes(if subs can"dive")
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A further idea for the functionality of seaplanes, assumming they take off from ports, could be to resupply PT boats with ammo and repairs and maybe to repair the gunning positions for the CV and cruisers. Granted I'm not positive how long those positions are down in the first place, but t could work like resupplying the radar and AA guns of an airfield, just land the crates within a certain distance of said ship. :cheers:
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To build on that idea, subs could refuel the sea planes!!!
:banana:
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To build on that idea, subs could refuel the sea planes!!!
:banana:
It was far more common to have a PBY Catalina resupplied, repaired and refueled by seaplane tenders even at forward operating bases behind enemy lines. This is a photo of such a seaplane tender, USS Tangier (AV-8) in port.
(http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/h50000/h50132.jpg)
ack-ack
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The A6M floatplane would be a pretty easy addition for HTC to do. The A6M2 skin would only need minor alterations and a new 3D shape and skin tile added for the floats. It is not exactly going to set the MA alight as it is even slower than the basic A6M2, but it has 2 20mms and can turn better than most planes.
The H8K2 would make a decent bomber in the MA in its own right, although I don't think it should have a formation option.
Upping from ports would be handy and they could also include the ability to up from a CV group with the carrier sunk. The real attraction for people to up with these aircraft though would be if they were enabled from PT spawns. On some maps the spawns are offshore the next field along the coast, could be a real game changer.
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The H8K2 would make a decent bomber in the MA in its own right, although I don't think it should have a formation option.
Agreed.
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It was far more common to have a PBY Catalina resupplied, repaired and refueled by seaplane tenders even at forward operating bases behind enemy lines. This is a photo of such a seaplane tender, USS Tangier (AV-8) in port.
(Image Done went gone)
ack-ack
I understand the historical aspect but, it is a game after all.. couldn't this be reciprocal ship->plane & then if needed plane->ship ??
it would have to be tweaked of course.. but it seems like this could be a very big addition..
& then the Subs.. everything is in place.. :cool:
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The H8K2 would make a decent bomber in the MA in its own right, although I don't think it should have a formation option.
There was limited use of them in small formations (three aircraft) as bombers.
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There was limited use of them in small formations (three aircraft) as bombers.
To keep with the whole "other plane ecosystem" and context idea I presented; I would not like to see formations with these kind of planes.
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I like the idea of spawning from a pt spawn. :aok
I live these aircraft so much makes me :x
has htc ever played around with 2 plane formations?
To keep with the whole "other plane ecosystem" and context idea I presented; I would not like to see formations with these kind of planes.
and why is that? This could serve to increase Chances of survival.
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I like the idea of spawning from a pt spawn. :aok
I live these aircraft so much makes me :x
has htc ever played around with 2 plane formations?
and why is that? This could serve to increase Chances of survival.
The 'big boys' like the Catalina may deserve such. The cruiser scouts, not so much. :cool:
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The 'big boys' like the Catalina may deserve such. The cruiser scouts, not so much. :cool:
I'd love to see the PBM mariner.
Having a gull wing design I'd think you'd agree with me arlo :D
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tell me what other combat game out there you can jump into a seaplane, put on your sunglasses and roll down the beach whilst idly rocking to the gentle rhythms of the waves, apply a little suncream so you don't burn in the heat. Then some dweeb comes hurtling down from 15k all :mad: :mad: :mad: to strafe you whilst your sipping on a nice cocktail with a pink cocktail umbrella. Just as the guy is dribbling out of the corner of his mouth, at the prospect of an easy kill, he pulls too hard for the shot and then compresses, locks up his controls and then promptly augers into the water next to you for the proxy kill :rock
Lifes a beach, lets have some seaplanes!!
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Some sea Ames had dive flaps :old:
one of the japanease models stated above have a set in the float support :rock
I believe it was the Aichi E16A "Paul"
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Just like Greebo said, A6M2-N would clearly make the most sense as the first sea plane for AH.
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I'd love to see the PBM mariner.
Having a gull wing design I'd think you'd agree with me arlo :D
Sorry, I'm much more a Catalina fan. The father of a good friend of mine that joined the navy with me
was a crewman on one. The lines of that baby are sexy.
(http://references.charlyecho.com/Aviation/Consolidated/PBY%20Catalina/Cutaway/consolidatedcatalinaraf.jpg)
(http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/3137/consolidatedpby5acatali.jpg)
(http://references.charlyecho.com/Aviation/Consolidated/PBY%20Catalina/Plans/v06b.jpg)
(http://www.stinsonflyer.com/consolac/pby-1.jpg)
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Sorry, I'm much more a Catalina fan. The father of a good friend of mine that joined the navy with me
was a crewman on one. The lines of that baby are sexy.
(http://references.charlyecho.com/Aviation/Consolidated/PBY%20Catalina/Cutaway/consolidatedcatalinaraf.jpg)
(http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/3137/consolidatedpby5acatali.jpg)
(http://references.charlyecho.com/Aviation/Consolidated/PBY%20Catalina/Plans/v06b.jpg)
(http://www.stinsonflyer.com/consolac/pby-1.jpg)
If I may digress, we have a Catalina in the Texas flight museum done in Galveston, very beautiful and interesting looking, makes me think of star trek for some reason
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If I may digress, we have a Catalina in the Texas flight museum done in Galveston, very beautiful and interesting looking, makes me think of star trek for some reason
U.S. Navy waterborne bird of prey? ;)
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Since were talking patrol bombers,arlo would you happen to have specs and diagrams for the PB4Y privateer??
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Some sea Ames had dive flaps :old:
one of the japanease models stated above have a set in the float support :rock
I believe it was the Aichi E16A "Paul"
Yeah the Paul had dive brakes on the front float struts to allow for dive bombing. I don't now how effective it was in this role though.
Some Japanese ones had jettisonable floats to allow for better performance. The Kawanishi E15K Shiun "Norm" were made with this but it didn't go as planned. They had only been tested in wind tunnels and all 6 E15Ks deployed to Palau were shot down by Allied fighters after their floats failed to detatch.
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(http://www.hypercontinuum.com/vpb-118/images/Cutaway.jpg)
(http://steveblank.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/pb4y-2_convair_privateer_vp-23_1951.jpg)
(http://www.the-blueprints.com/modules/vectordrawings/preview-wm/consolidated_pb4y-2_privateer.jpg)
(http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/3402/3coincidence550.jpg)
(http://img.wp.scn.ru/camms/ar/327/pics/3_22_b1.jpg)
This isn't a seaplane by the way. :D
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(http://www.hypercontinuum.com/vpb-118/images/Cutaway.jpg)
(http://steveblank.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/pb4y-2_convair_privateer_vp-23_1951.jpg)
(http://www.the-blueprints.com/modules/vectordrawings/preview-wm/consolidated_pb4y-2_privateer.jpg)
(http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/3402/3coincidence550.jpg)
(http://img.wp.scn.ru/camms/ar/327/pics/3_22_b1.jpg)
This isn't a seaplane by the way. :D
Your awesome!!! :banana:
I'm settin up for a future wish :D
I'd imagine Theda be limited to speeds between 350-400mph. Although if they poped off the possible wonders they could do.
When you gear is shot off(like and the Val or Stuka) is that wieght loss(albiet being small) accounted for???
Not to mention the decrease in drag?
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Your awesome!!! :banana:
I'm settin up for a future wish :D
I'd imagine Theda be limited to speeds between 350-400mph. Although if they poped off the possible wonders they could do.
When you gear is shot off(like and the Val or Stuka) is that wieght loss(albiet being small) accounted for???
Not to mention the decrease in drag?
All four engines falling off would be an extreme weight reduction. :lol
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I'm just reffering to the small sea planes.
The dive bombers that have unretractable gear, when those are takin out, does speed increase, due to there being less drag?
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(http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/3402/3coincidence550.jpg)
The real deal of this painting.
H8K2 51-08-5 was shot down on the 2nd of July 1944 by a PB4Y-1 of VB-115. Photographs taken by the crew of the PB4-Y during the engagement:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a4/Kawanishi_H8K_in_flight_July_1944.jpeg/800px-Kawanishi_H8K_in_flight_July_1944.jpeg)
(http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/attachments/aviation/211440d1347751107t-clash-titans-emily-engaged.jpg)
(http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/attachments/aviation/211441d1347751121t-clash-titans-emily-shot-down.jpg)
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The group that particular bomber crew was attached to had an interesting book. I'll have to go to my library for those interested in it.
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awesome Plus 1
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Even if it isn't technically a seaplane, I'm all for the addition of the PB4Y! :rock
Seriously though, give me the Mavis. :D Ever since I first saw it in Aces of the Pacific, I've wanted a game where I could fly it. Even more so, shoot and blow stuff up with it. While there may have been other games where you could fly it (I don't know of any personally), this one would be best at modeling her properly. :D
But for game play, the A6M2-N would be the easiest addition. As mentioned, wouldn't be a game breaker and since we already have a hanger at ports, very easy to add. :x
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Seriously though, give me the Mavis. :D Ever since I first saw it in Aces of the Pacific, I've wanted a game where I could fly it. Even more so, shoot and blow stuff up with it. While there may have been other games where you could fly it (I don't know of any personally), this one would be best at modeling her properly. :D
The Battlesations series of arcade ship/plane combat had the Mavis in it. It had quite a good selection of flying boats actually, I remember the Mavis, Emily, Jake, Pete and Seiran for Japan as well as the Kingfisher, Catalina and Seagull for the Allies. There's probably more but it's been a few years since I last played it but I really liked it.
(http://cdn.wikimg.net/strategywiki/images/d/de/BSP_Mavis.PNG)
I think out of those I posted the A6M2-N would be popular as a quick defensive upper at ports and the Emily would be reasonably well used as a bomber, owing much to its impressive defensive armament.
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battlestations was a fantastic game for what it was, if HTC can replicate the Submarine warfare from it, would be great.
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battlestations was a fantastic game for what it was, if HTC can replicate the Submarine warfare from it, would be great.
Replicating elements from other games comes with it's own problems.
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yea not like for like but just the best bits :aok
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Don't get me wrong, I like sub sims/sub games, as well. I just don't see it as a practical
element unless AHII becomes arcade. And I don't want that.
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If we get flying boats I'm just gonna stop going to the Ma and mak a pacific map for myself to just zoom around in :x
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Don't get me wrong, I like sub sims/sub games, as well. I just don't see it as a practical
element unless AHII becomes arcade. And I don't want that.
I'm fairly sure when HTC adds subs to the game, that they won't be a "slap on" type of thing. I'm not a programmer, but I can see the nightmares associated with adding subs to AH. A real doozy, to put it very lightly. I get the feeling it is something they are working on for a small while. Small bits here and there. :)
The Battlesations series of arcade ship/plane combat had the Mavis in it. It had quite a good selection of flying boats actually, I remember the Mavis, Emily, Jake, Pete and Seiran for Japan as well as the Kingfisher, Catalina and Seagull for the Allies. There's probably more but it's been a few years since I last played it but I really liked it.
(http://cdn.wikimg.net/strategywiki/images/d/de/BSP_Mavis.PNG)
I think out of those I posted the A6M2-N would be popular as a quick defensive upper at ports and the Emily would be reasonably well used as a bomber, owing much to its impressive defensive armament.
Damn you. I saw that and got a bit excited, then noticed this after I chilled...
...arcade ship/plane combat...
:cry
I agree with you on the A6M2-N. But I think a rework of water would be required. But honestly, I am unsure how the PT Boat and LVT's work in-game exactly. From what I understand (if I recall what I've read correctly), gv's are actually flying, just at 0ft. Wonder how it works for the PT and LVT's. Ell, I wonder how they got it to where the LVT can transition between water and land w/o the crashing bit. :headscratch:
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Always wondered that myself
Wonder how long we'll have to wait for this :cry
And these will be the best NOE aircraft ever!!!! :banana:
Too low? Whoops, you got a Little water on the cockpit window
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Damn you. I saw that and got a bit excited, then noticed this after I chilled...
:cry
Haha. It's still a good fun game for what it is though. Worth a playthrough.
http://youtu.be/YSowvVPQyJM?t=2m55s
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Haha. It's still a good fun game for what it is though. Worth a playthrough.
http://youtu.be/YSowvVPQyJM?t=2m55s
Hmm... I was half expecting to see regening health and what-not. While arcade-y, it does look like fun. A change of pace. :headscratch: I might look into it.
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PB2Y Coronado
Crew: 10
Length: 79 ft 3 in (24.2 m)
Wingspan: 115 ft 0 in (35 m)
Height: 27 ft 6 in (8.4 m)
Wing area: 1,780 ft² (165 m²)
Empty weight: 40,850 lb (18,530 kg)
Max. takeoff weight: 66,000 lb (30,000 kg)
Powerplant: 4 × Pratt & Whitney R-1830-92 radial engines, 1,200 hp (900 kW) each
Performance
Maximum speed: 194 mph (168 knots, 310 km/h)
Cruise speed: 170 mph (148 knots, 272 km/h)
Range: 1,070 mi (930 NM, 1,720 km) at 131 mph (210 km/h)
Service ceiling: 20,500 ft (6,250 m)
Armament
Guns:
6× .50 in (12.7 mm) M2 Browning machine guns in twin nose, dorsal, and tail powered turrets
2× .50 in M2 Browning machine guns in manual waist mounts
Bombs:
2× Mark 13 torpedoes or
Up to 12,000 lb (5,400 kg) of bombs, housed in the wings
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I'm all up for the Sunderland - now that is a heavy with curves!
How about the Walrus? :)
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'Vicinity' landings may be the issue. Currently, if you're not on the runway or deck you ditch. Perhaps
HT can code vicinity landings, I'm not sure. The cruiser landing might be a chore since the ship cannot
stop to take you aboard (as it could in reality). You would have to probably land in front of it and hope
someone doesn't change course on you.
Cat launched 'fleet spotters' would be dead meat in the LWMA but may be cool for events.
Larger seaplanes would merely be waterborne attack/bomber craft (like the 'Black Cats').
I'm not seeing submarines in AH's future, myself - but HT knows more when it comes to
limits.
How about some marker bouys to shhut down between that would serve as the runway or concrete
on land beses. Cmon you know you want to shoot at Rufes Arlo. Or Alro as we call you in the Taninan Kokutai. :D
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How about some marker bouys to shhut down between that would serve as the runway or concrete
on land beses. Cmon you know you want to shoot at Rufes Arlo. Or Alro as we call you in the Taninan Kokutai. :D
+1
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Yes!!!!
Am I the only one looking at the float planes as a potential defense fighter???
Probably, as they are not very good performers overall.
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Probably, as they are not very good performers overall.
True but I know several peeps who would love to dogfight in them.
Really interested in hTC's opinion on this manner.
Would open up a whole new front.
Maybe Floatplanes can resupply a cv? Each supply knocks off 5 minutes
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I'm all up for the Sunderland - now that is a heavy with curves!
How about the Walrus? :)
That Walrus is a classy lookin' plane. It would be great to take a cast off the nose of one in a lake. I had never heard of it until today, and twice today. Once here, and once in an article about Emilia A. That stuff happens to me all the time.
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I'm 1000% in favor of this thread. I want a PBY dangit! :bhead
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How about some marker bouys to shhut down between that would serve as the runway or concrete
on land beses. Cmon you know you want to shoot at Rufes Arlo. Or Alro as we call you in the Taninan Kokutai. :D
(http://www.internetmodeler.com/artman/uploads/1/hsgs1936.jpg)
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Now how would landing on water become gentle? Cause so far it feels llike concrete :confused:
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In regards to the ability to launch from a cruiser, the basis of the catapults are already there. With a bit of modification so that one is permanently out to the side, or a bit of work on an animation to move one out, it would look pretty good. Getting the plane back to the cruiser would be something else to think about though.
(http://i39.tinypic.com/riccg5.png)
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Maybe there can be a code that will allow a seaplane to land in close visinity to a cruiser or cv like a pt boat. But the flying boats would have to rtb to an airbase or land at the port docks.
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We could go WWI style and catapult them off the B turret :x
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(http://www.fleetairarmarchive.net/Ships/catapult_launcher_kingfisher.jpg)
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Quick!!!!
Turn the turret so they crash into the tower! :rofl
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Large Seaplanes (airfields & ports):
United Kingdom
Short S.25 Sunderland
Manufacturer: Short
Model: S.25 Sunderland Mk V
Crew: 9 - 11
Entered Service: 1938
Number Produced: 777
Engine: 4x Pratt & Whitney R-1830-90-B Twin Wasps, 895kW
Weights: 29480 kg / 64993 lb (take off), 16740 kg / 36906 lb (empty)
Dimensions: 34.38 m / 113 ft 10 in (wingspan), 26 m / 85 ft 4 in (length), 10.52 m / 35 ft 6 in (height), 156.72 m² / 1686.92 sq ft (wing area)
Performance: 343 km/h / 213 mph (max speed), 285 km/h / 178 mph (cruise speed), 5455 m / 17900 ft (ceiling), 4300 km / 2672 miles (range)
Armament: 2x .50 cal machine guns, 10x .30 cal machine guns, 2250 kg of bombs
(http://www.aviastar.org/gallery/sunderland/sunderland_1.gif)
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/40/Short_Sunderland_3view_drawings.PNG)
http://www.aviastar.org/air/england/short_sunderland.php
Japan
Kawanishi H6K "Mavis"
Manufacturer: Kawanishi
Model: H6K5
Crew: 10
Entered Service: 1938
Number Produced: 215
Engine: 4x Mitsubishi Kinsei-51, 975kW
Weights: 17500 kg / 38581 lb (take off), 12380 kg / 27293 lb (empty)
Dimensions: 40.0 m / 131 ft 3 in (wingspan), 25.63 m / 84 ft 1 in (length), 6.27 m / 21 ft 7 in (height), 170 m² / 1829.86 sq ft (wing area)
Performance: 380 km/h / 236 mph (max speed), 255 km/h / 158 mph (cruise speed), 9560 m / 31350 ft (ceiling), 4870 km / 3026 miles (range)
Armament: 1x 20 mm cannon, 4x 7.7 mm machine guns, 1000 kg of bombs or 2x 800 kg torpedos
(http://www.aviastar.org/pictures/japan/kawanishi_mavis-s.gif)
(http://www.aviastar.org/pictures/japan/kawanishi_h6k.gif)
http://www.aviastar.org/air/japan/kawanishi_h6k.php
Kawanishi H8K "Emily"
Manufacturer: Kawanishi
Model: H8K2
Crew: 9
Entered Service: 1942
Number Produced: 167
Engine: 4x Mitsubishi MK4Q Kasei-22, 1380kW
Weights: 24500 kg / 54014 lb (take off), 18380 kg / 40521 lb (empty)
Dimensions: 38.0 m / 125 ft 8 in (wingspan), 28.13 m / 92 ft 3 in (length), 9.15 m / 30 ft 0 in (height), 160 m² / 1722.22 sq ft (wing area)
Performance: 460 km/h / 286 mph (max speed), 290 km/h / 180 mph (cruise speed), 8850 m / 29050 ft (ceiling), 7050 km / 4381 miles (range)
Armament: 3x 20 mm cannons, 4x 7.7 mm machine guns, 2000 kg of bombs or 2x 800 kg torpedos
(http://www.aviastar.org/pictures/japan/kawanishi_h8k-s.gif)
(http://www.aviastar.org/pictures/japan/kawanishi_h8k.gif)
http://www.aviastar.org/air/japan/kawanishi_h8k.php
United States of America
Martin PBM Mariner
Manufacturer: Martin
Model: PBM-1
Crew: 7
Entered Service: 1940
Number Produced: 1285
Engine: 2x Wright R-2600-12, 1300kW
Weights: 25425 kg / 56000 lb (take off), 15048 kg / 33175 lb (empty)
Dimensions: 36.0 m / 118 ft 0 in (wingspan), 23.5 m / 79 ft 10 in (length), 5.33 m / 27 ft 6 in (height), 131 m² / 1408 sq ft (wing area)
Performance: 330 km/h / 205 mph (max speed), 240 km/h / 149 mph (cruise speed), 6040 m / 19800 ft (ceiling), 4800 km / 3000 miles (range)
Armament: 8x .50 cal machine guns, 1800 kg of bombs or 2x 1000 kg torpedos
(http://www.aviastar.org/pictures/usa/martin_mariner-s.gif)
(http://www.aviastar.org/pictures/usa/martin_mariner.gif)
http://www.aviastar.org/air/usa/martin_mariner.php
Consolidated PBY Catalina
Manufacturer: Consolidated
Model: PBY-5A
Crew: 6 - 10
Entered Service: 1936
Number Produced: 3305
Engine: 2x Pratt & Whitney R-1830-92 Twin Wasp, 895kW
Weights: 16066 kg / 35240 lb (take off), 9485 kg / 20910 lb (empty)
Dimensions: 31.70 m / 104 ft 0 in (wingspan), 19.46 m / 63 ft 10 in (length), 6.15 m / 21 ft 1 in (height), 130 m² / 1400 sq ft (wing area)
Performance: 314 km/h / 196 mph (max speed), 201 km/h / 125 mph (cruise speed), 4000 m / 15800 ft (ceiling), 4030 km / 2520 miles (range)
Armament: 3x .30 cal machine guns, 2x .50 cal machine guns, 1800 kg of bombs or 2x 1000 kg torpedos
(http://www.aviastar.org/pictures/usa/cons_catalina-s.gif)
(http://www.aviastar.org/pictures/usa/cons_catalina.gif)
http://www.aviastar.org/air/usa/cons_catalina.php
Germany
Heinkel He 115
Manufacturer: Heinkel
Model: He 115 C-1
Crew: 3
Entered Service: 1939
Number Produced: 138
Engine: 2x BMW 132K, 706kW
Weights: 10400 kg / 22928 lb (take off), 5290 kg / 11670 lb (empty)
Dimensions: 22.28 m / 73 ft 1 in (wingspan), 17.30 m / 56 ft 9 in (length), 6.60 m / 21 ft 7 in (height), 87.5 m² / 942 sq ft (wing area)
Performance: 327 km/h / 203 mph (max speed), 5200 m / 17100 ft (ceiling), 2100 km / 1305 miles (range)
Armament: 1x 20 mm cannon, 2x 7.92 mm machine guns, 5x 250 kg bombs or 2x 250 kg bombs and 1x 800kg torpedo
(http://www.aviastar.org/pictures/germany/he-115-s.gif)
(http://www.aviastar.org/pictures/germany/he-115.gif)
http://www.aviastar.org/air/germany/he-115.php
Dornier Do 24
Manufacturer: Dornier
Model: Do 24 T-1
Crew: 6
Entered Service: 1937
Number Produced: 279
Engine: 3x Bramo 323R-2 Fafnir, 735kW
Weights: 18400 kg / 40565 lb (take off), 10600 kg / 23369 lb (empty)
Dimensions: 27.0 m / 89 ft 7 in (wingspan), 21.9 m / 72 ft 10 in (length), 5.8 m / 19 ft 0 in (height), 108.0 m² / 1162.50 sq ft (wing area)
Performance: 340 km/h / 211 mph (max speed), 255 km/h / 158 mph (cruise speed), 5900 m / 19350 ft (ceiling), 4800 km / 2983 miles (range)
Armament: 1x 20 mm cannon, 2x 7.92 mm machine guns, 600 kg of bombs
(http://www.aviastar.org/pictures/germany/dorn_do-24-s.gif)
(http://www.aviastar.org/pictures/germany/dorn_do-24.gif)
http://www.aviastar.org/air/germany/dorn_do-24.php
+1
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yes I to would love to see seaplanes in this game> :salute
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(http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk57/nanook_08/Aircraft/pbm-mariner-seaplanes.jpg) (http://media.photobucket.com/user/nanook_08/media/Aircraft/pbm-mariner-seaplanes.jpg.html)
(http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee72/westwing38/Duck.jpg) (http://media.photobucket.com/user/westwing38/media/Duck.jpg.html)
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I'd go for this as well. I like upping storches myself to provide recon support of tank battles even though I'm a sitting duck. here are some things to think about.
1. Make them large sea planes available at ports only. smaller sea planes could spawn from either carrier groups or ports.
2. Give them the respective armament package.
3. I would support displaying a "radar" ring around the plane with a radius of reasonable sight distance. This isn't so much like a radar tower as it is a way to display recon info on the map to fellow players. This can only pick up enemy CV groups, not enemy aircraft.
4. Sea planes can loiter around the enemy CV and broadcast its position for friendly raiders or go on the assault with its armament.
5. Sea planes able to carry cargo can resupply fields as well as damaged (but not sunk) CVs...possibly...maybe... :uhoh
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Are you ready to H8K2? Of course you are!
Lets get started!
Cutaway:
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/122028497/h8k2_cutaway.jpg)
Markings:
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/122028497/h8k2_stencil.jpg)
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/122028497/h8k2_stencil-2.jpg)
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/122028497/h8k_coloring.jpg)
Line drawings:
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/122028497/h8k2_drawing.jpg)
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/122028497/h8k2_drawing-2.jpg)
Cockpit layout:
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/122028497/h8k_cockpit.jpg)
Gunner data and arcs of fire:
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/122028497/h8k_defensivegun-1.jpg)
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/122028497/h8k_defensivegun-2.jpg)
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/122028497/h8k_defensivegun-3.jpg)
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/122028497/h8k_defensivegun-4.jpg)
Weapons load:
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/122028497/h8k_attachment.jpg)
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/122028497/h8k_attachment-2.jpg)
Interior photos:
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/122028497/h8k2_interiorphoto-1.jpg)
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/122028497/h8k2_interiorphoto-2.jpg)
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/122028497/h8k2_interiorphoto-3.jpg)
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/122028497/h8k2_interiorphoto-4.jpg)
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/122028497/h8k2_interiorphoto-5.jpg)
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/122028497/h8k2_interiorphoto-6.jpg)
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/122028497/h8k2_interiorphoto-7.jpg)
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/122028497/h8k2_interiorphoto-8.jpg)
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/122028497/h8k2_interiorphoto-9.jpg)
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/122028497/h8k2_interiorphoto-10.jpg)
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/122028497/h8k2_interiorphoto-11.jpg)
Crew station photos:
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/122028497/h8k_crew_compartment-1.jpg)
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/122028497/h8k_crew_compartment-2.jpg)
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/122028497/h8k_crew_compartment-3.jpg)
Photo of H8Ks at base:
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/122028497/H8K2s.jpg)
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Karnak, is this, by far, the plane you want the MOST? :)
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Karnak, is this, by far, the plane you want the MOST? :)
No, not really. I'd love to see it added of course, but it isn't at the top of my personal list or my "Good for AH" list. I just had the images on my hard drive from when Mitsu posted them more than a decade ago. Except for the last one, I found that on the internet somewhere.
Given all the pictures of the other float planes and flying boats I figured I ought to try selling my preferred option a bit more aggressively.
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And aggresive it was. Thus i have deleated all photo's and have given up :cry
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Are wing floats incorparated into a wing? Or are they merely "bolted" on
:airplane: I think all the PBY series of aircraft had retrackable wing tip floats and also retrackable landing gear to land on land.
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:airplane: I think all the PBY series of aircraft had retrackable wing tip floats and also retrackable landing gear to land on land.
Only the PBY-5A and PBY-6A were amphibious, all other PBYs were water only.
ack-ack
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As a true "heavy" would the Short Sunderland qualify for formations?
Or would it be a lone wolf as per historical?
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There may have been occasions when heavy flying boats like the Sunderland flew in a formation but generally these were lone patrol aircraft. IMO that's how they should be modelled in AH.
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There may have been occasions when heavy flying boats like the Sunderland flew in a formation but generally these were lone patrol aircraft. IMO that's how they should be modelled in AH.
H8K2s did do some formation bombing as bombers.
I've not read of other flying boats doing so though.
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I used to come into these threads and say how nobody would ever fly these things in the game. But hey, let people wish. I am fascinated by the history of these planes as well.
And the pictures alone are worth the price of thread admission. Awsome Karnak. :aok
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I used to come into these threads and say how nobody would ever fly these things in the game. But hey, let people wish. I am fascinated by the history of these planes as well.
I agree with you, with the exception of the H8K2. It had about B-17, but much better climb, levels of performance, was very tough and had five 20mm cannons defending it, as well as the light machine guns in the belly hatch and carried a usable eight 250kg bombs or two 800kg torpedoes. If formations were enabled for it, which could happen as it did occasionally operate in small formations as a bomber, it would see decent use.
And the pictures alone are worth the price of thread admission. Awsome Karnak. :aok
You're welcome. Thank Mitsu for originally posting them too.
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H8K2s did do some formation bombing as bombers.
I've not read of other flying boats doing so though.
Blackcats would on occasion as well.
ack-ack
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+1 Never stopped HTC before..... The nobody flying part. Afterall, it took 10 years for the WWI arena to enter gameplay. Thank goodness too, with all the use it gets.
I used to come into these threads and say how nobody would ever fly these things in the game. But hey, let people wish. I am fascinated by the history of these planes as well.
And the pictures alone are worth the price of thread admission. Awsome Karnak. :aok
So I was wondering how many people would like to see Biplanes in Aces High?
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Blackcats would on occasion as well.
ack-ack
Much less frequently. The PBY-5A's performance is just too low for survivability in the MA. They would all get used, but only one would be common*.
*as defined by Karnak. :p
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I think if the zero with floats was added, and enabled at ports, it would deffinatly see some use, as that would add an additionl defense element.
Fh is already modeled I might add.....
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+1 :rock
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+1 :rock
:airplane: ++++100! They would certainly add a different element to the game, especially if they had no "icons".